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CNBC: No Need For A Fork - It’s Done
Submitted by Mark St. Cyr
CNBC: No Need For A Fork – It’s Done
Yesterday I wrote on what I considered a very strange development that took place on CNBC™ in regards to one of the morning shows where Jim Cramer produced, then read on-air, an email he received (and stated only he had) from Tim Cook of Apple™ about China’s health as far as he saw it. As I wrote yesterday this hit me in that “Wait, what?” type moment. So much so I instinctively hit the record button as to watch it later to make sure I truly did hear correctly. For the implications would be far from subtle. Why?
Never mind whether it may have legal ramifications or not for the moment. What was said, how it was obtained, and exactly who knew what, when, and where struck me as an obvious “something just doesn’t seem right here.” No SEC or law degree needed. Just common sense.
Add to this was also the timing. Right before the open where liquidity has shown to be at its most vulnerable (meaning lack there of) where it’s basically the window where HFT, headline reading algos feast upon stop runs and more clearing out what many consider the “order book” of the market every morning. This phenom has been detailed in near scholarly work by Eric Scott Hunsader at a company called Nanex™.
So with this understanding; anyone with a modicum of insight as to what these “markets” have now become listened to this email exchange and could draw conclusions near immediately what would follow such a revelation. And sure enough it seemed to do exactly what one inferred as the market steamrolled back 1000 Dow points in what seemed mere minutes, with HFT’s gorging on any and all orders available. (It’s been reported yesterday was one of HFT’s most profitable days just for some context.)
The issue? A lot (and I’ll wager to say – a whole lot) of the remaining Mom and Pop retail customers with their 401K’s that are still left in this market, if they weren’t steamrolled themselves, may have been scarred with orders they thought protected their stops, only to find the rules allowed those “stops” to turn into market orders (i.e., what ever someone wants to pay) and were filled at levels they never dreamed of selling or buying at.
Some of these types of order fills have been reported to have transpired at cents on the dollar. (i.e., you wanted to sell at $1 to preserve your money and during the chaos – your order was filled and sold at .05 cents or vice versa) It’s said some of the egregious ones have been broken (e.g., cancelled) however, we can all imagine there are a far greater number that will not. i.e., you wanted to sell at $1 and it was filled at .35 cents as an example. I guess you would be asked to take solace in that – at least you did better than a nickel. Feel better?
As I said yesterday I hadn’t watched a morning show on CNBC in years and have stated my reasons ad nauseam over those years. Yet, I would guess, just like you, with such turmoil currently taking place you may have also decided to flip over and see what two cents they might be adding to the discussion. So, like yesterday, I once again did just that: only to have all my past revelations reassured as to thwart any doubt that watching this channel is an absolute waste of time. And, in my opinion: does more harm than give insight into the markets for any of today’s very few retail investors. (One caveat: I do watch their Asia Squawk™ programming)
When I tuned in I happened on what I thought was perfect timing because the guest was Joseph Saluzzi, partner/co-founder of Themis Trading™. There probably isn’t a person more abreast in everything HFT than Mr. Saluzzi. The other trait he has that’s desperately needed in today’s environment is: he can make the complexities of HFT and its effect on the markets understandable to the lay person. So with that in mind I thought what an opportunity to expand further insight into what I’m sure are many frightened retail investors as to understand what these “markets” have morphed into. For the topic was HFT, the sell-off, and liquidity.
And what took place? Nothing more than irrelevant causational assumptions asked by one of the hosts. And, as Mr. Saluzzi tried to explain the why’s of the inherent dangers – he was either talked over (as in questioned) as if what he was saying wasn’t addressing the issue. Or worse – seemed to be dismissed in a tone or tenor of “Thanks, for that info – we’ll let you know next time we need another 5 minutes of dead air to fill.” What a freakin’ shame is all that came to my mind.
What an absolute missed opportunity to ask some real pointed questions in regards to what truly is making these markets, in my opinion; unstable.
Here you had a person that could answer any question one needed enlightening on when it comes to HFT and liquidity issues, that can explain it in understandable sound bites that are informed as well as actionable – and they seemed not only to care less – but rather – cared more about how quickly the segment could be over. I guess HFT and liquidity isn’t news that needs to be reported with any depth or insight to its viewers. After all, maybe that is the case – no viewers.
Or, maybe there’s another viewer. One especially suited, and Pavlovian in nature that feeds on the information that now is disseminated there: The HFT, algorithmic, headline reading machines themselves.
After all, if Mom and Pop (what’s left of them) aren’t watching any longer as proved via their last Neilsen™ ratings (last as in they no longer report them.) then I guess you turn to the one viewer that desperately needs “headlines” to work with: The HFT cabal themselves. After all, who needs viewers when there’s a market moving mass of machines just waiting for the right headline to cross the network?
The problem with this is two-fold. Whether it’s intentional or accidental. The more Mom and Pop tunes out – the less to feed on for the HFT’s till eventually there’s no one left to feed on except for themselves – and I believe you are witnessing in real-time this exact phenom which will be brought on not only quicker, but with more ferocity moving forward. For Mom and Pop are not coming back to either the “markets” or CNBC. They’re done.
And just as an addendum to my article yesterday. It seems I wasn’t the only one who said “Wait, what?” ZeroHedge™ asked the same question and posted it at about the same time I did in far greater detail. Then later in the evening I was sent a note sending me to the New York Times™. It seems the issues I raised are indeed worth questioning. From the article:
Bill Singer, a regulatory lawyer, said he expected the S.E.C. to investigate the context of the email and provide guidelines as to whether companies can disclose financial information this way to selected news reporters.
“I can see here that Cook is literally dancing on the edge of a razor,” he said. “At the end of the day it’s one of the largest companies in the world telling one reporter via a private email that our ongoing quarter is actually going to surprise people, and I consider that material.”
As I stated then as I do now, it raises a lot of questions to exactly “who” is the target audience. Mom and Pop retail that were basically the bread and butter reasons for the channel and programming? Or, someone (or something) other?
A reasonable question I’ll contend when one audience is still rushing to the exits as shown in any credible inflow/outflow analysis. While for all intents and purposes is also no longer considered “market moving” participants. While the other: moves the markets at whim for the select few still participating.
I contend HFT already has a “captured” audience, and doesn’t need to pay advertising fees on-top of their subsequent co-location and other incidentals. They don’t need the lights, sets, and hosts on a near 24 hour basis to give them pragmatic “financial insights.” Yet, the very life blood that made these markets (the retail 401K holder) is exactly the one that does. And from what I witnessed, they’re not only not getting it, when they try one last time they understand – there’s none to be had and hit the off button realizing how much time they just wasted. Or worse: their money.
Someone needs to remember “Last one out – please turn off the lights.” For inasmuch of what I witnessed today, using myself as an example. If this is what remains going forward? No one’s coming back.
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Maybe they can run CNBC out of Ron Insana's virtual garage.
I assume his garage is located in Crameria?
Complete with Suze Orman poledancing...
OMG, I nearly tossed my bedtime snack on that word picture.
Please be a bit more careful, there are some pretty sensitive readers here on the ZH...
Especially near bedtime...
DaddyO
CNBS comment section did not like teh Bitcoin pumpers either and banned teh we.
The final curtain comes down on the greatest Muppet show on earth... Que the lights to a slow fade out...
Bring in the janitors...
Indeed; something like Hillary and Yellin scissoring naked in the steam room, just too much to clear from the mind at this hour.
i can NOT believe you wrote that. :vomits:
Wow that was wrong in so many ways, quite disturbing.
Twice. ..
hell might be Suze lapdancing on you with her Skeletor jew body and lizard face, while she gives you financial advice... and the song NEVER ends
Most jew females are promiscuous and loose -no telling how many times she spread her legs to get where she is at. They require the same of goys - marilyn Monroe sucked more jew cock to get to the top than you can imagine.
Savy, may I ask? How the fuck do u know this?
I had CNBC on for the first time Monday morning in a long time. I quickly muted it so I could just have a quick to walk by and see what was happening screen.
One thing I noticed while watching with no sound on was the faces of the talking heads, go from looking like their dog just died, to I just got a BJ smiles, back to I think I just got a BJ from Caitlyn Jenner....
I just find it remarkable that the typical stawk market schizophrenia would manifest itself in the faces (and brains) of those reporting on it.
We should get a government grant and study this phenomena ;-)
When your paycheck is dependent on it, anything is believable.
Morons watch CNBC, TV and Hollywood's crap. Keep supporting The Matrix like a dumb sheep people.
For Laughs and Giggles. Aww, come on! It's for comic relief for criminy sake man.
You would ever think that any respectable ZH'er would ever see those turkeys, in any other light other than that of a Comic Central-type laugh-a-thon, do you?
you would think these CNBS fucks would have a bit of "gravitas", after cheerleading their idiot watchers into a fucking disaster, but they're not...stilll yucking it up, after mom and pop just lost 15% of their IRA
really narcissistic sick fucks all of them, except for Santelli
Hey, whatever the truth of the matter is in this one email incident. I am sure, this is the first time Cramer has been involved in anything that remotely resembles "insider" information, and he's never ever been involved in any pump/dump scheme by the big money on WS. lol......DUH!! Since he has no viewers....it would not be irrational to assume that he's just one giant infomercial being paid under the table by WS Billionaire Boy Club members.
He mentions still watching CNBC Asia- if you've ever seen their international sister channels in Europe and Asia, they are much more professional, really stick to reporting the news and don't come across as mere propaganda outlets.
The US version of CNBC is so brazenly dishonest and has built its entire image around Jim Cramer, of all people. He's their Jared without the kiddie porn bust. He belongs in cuffs for many other reasons, though!
Lindsay Graham on Trump: ‘I’ll beat his brains out’ (?!?!?)
http://tinyurl.com/os55ug5
The author is spot on. There are no retail investors. If just the machines are trading, all official information is released after hours so the machines would execute all of their strategic trades in the first minute (or less) of trading. The "news" coming while the market is open provides cover for all of the market manipulation the machines are doing. If there was no news during the day, how could anyone rationalize a machine placing fake orders for millions of shares to drive pricing???
CNBC and Bloomberg are there to assign a news item to a market move and not the other way around.
Yes, to assume retail investors are waiting in front of their e-trade account at the open just in case there's a 1000-point drop in the market for five minutes at the open is absurd. On the other hand, when the price of oil is down over 50%, commodities in general have crashed, and the fed is no longer expanding its B/S (balance sheet), one would think the market might be headed down. Does it really matter whether it's in stairsteps of 1000 or 100? Because of the government-engineered lack of liquidity (in the stock market, not bonds) we could make the adjustment in one big 10,000-point drop. Sad to think it has come to this, to allow the markets to function independently would require a traumatic catharsis that was just delayed in 2008, not prevented. All eerily reminiscent of the jailing of the VP of the NYSE in 1938 --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Whitney_(financier) As Winston Churchill said -- America eventually does the right thing, after trying all the alternatives.
Yep. Even if Cook tries to play the ignorance card, Cramer (as he's told us HOW MANY TIMES?) has a law degree, ran a hedge fund, and knows a SEC violation of disclosure when he hears one- he has ZERO excuses here, it's his job to feret out and decipher this stuff-
But his vanity got the better of him- he wanted the "Cramer Moment", where he could look back and point to how HE marked the bottom-
The only thing he marked here is his own exit- much like the mysterious way he left his hedge fund, he'll "be presented with a wonderful opportunity elsewhere" soon, and that will be the end of him.
You danced too long in the fire, Jim- we always knew you were gonna get burned, we just didn't know when.
When he ran his hedge fund, he would whisper stories in Maria's ear. He is good friends with Elliot Spitzer who's family has billions in real estate.
Cramer was a total manipulator and was never touched by the regulators.
And he won't be touched until he crosses someone like Ken Langone. One of the best interviews I remember on CNBS was when KL was bragging about following Spitzer around. He really got off on taking down Spitzer for trying to clean them up. It's a mafia-like organization.
Watched a few minutes couple of hours after close. Dude on there "i am 100% sure today was the bottom". Really, as the imlied open rolling while he was talking was -11 on the S & P?????? How many O's in stooopid?
Funny thing about Muppets, you fuck them too hard too long, eventually the seams come apart and they fall all to pieces, never to be fucked again. Even if you try to stitch them back together, it don't work, they just fall all to pieces again the moment things start getting good. Nope, the only hope now is to grow a new crop of Muppets, and that's gonna take a good long while.
You sound experienced with this.
Much of this ramp is been specifically for the purpose of sucking in the muppets. Selling between themselves, constantly pushing prices higher, using free government money to do so, all in an attempt to pull the sideline money back in. Get the retail money to buy up all their worthless paper.
Fork CNBC, they are useless anyway.
Pitchforks to the ready!
I wouldn't be shocked if some "nut" started killing these CNBS motherfuckers... they can't be that hard to find
It's a delicious scenario - the Fed choosing between which HFT's to support/tip-off.
The best thing I did yesterday and today was not turn on CNBC. The markets are doing what I have expected since 2100. Watching CNBC will only lead to stupid actions.
See you at 1600...
Like this author, I also flipped on CNBC for an hour or so in the morning yesterday to view the carnage from the cheerleaders' perspective. I haven't watched any of that nonsense since quitting my trading job 9 months ago.
But watching Jim Cramer stuttering and bumbling like back in 2008 was absolutely priceless.
I don't take anything from that channel remotely serious. 100% entertainment. Sadly many still watch that garbage.
CNBC: "Time to buy? Well, our next guests think so!" (Repeat loop)
i love the new show on cnbc ''markets'' in turmoil.
hope it stays on for years to come
But you know what makes me sad? My new neighbours -- a really nice young couple -- just bought the property next to us for just north of half a million. He works in the tar sands making close to 175k a year, wife stays at home. Really sweet, friendly couple of good people. They have no idea that the shit just gets worse from now on. At least they don't have kids. Makes me sick to see the future for these poor buggers. They deserve a chance but it has already been stolen by their own parents.
An FYI that might put things in perspective: I bought our place which has 5 times the land 15 years ago for 68k. Gad zooks. It just makes me sad...
Prolly not as sad as you, when you see the new comp values of your neighborhood after that foreclosure......
BTW- "tar sands" and "half million dollar house" have no business of being within 100 miles of each other, never did- just sayin'......
had i realized people would actually have market sell orders i would have tried to put in some ridiculously low bids myself. for instance. an etf i own, hdv, settled at around 70 on friday. first prints were about 50 percent lower. had i had a standing bid of say 50, or 55, in my ameritrade account, would i have been filled? or would my bid not be seen and would the HFT still be able to rape the mom and pop market sell order?
i'm an old commodity floor trader but just learning how stealing in the stock market is done.
It may be a good standard practice to have buy orders well below current prices. Just in case.
The real lesson to be learned is never place at the open/close or stop loss orders. If you can't bother to pay attention you will be burned.
I have been making over 6,000 doallrs a week selling DOW futures at night. My Mom started doing it also, with great success. To learn more go to www.gofuckyourself.com
now thats funny
Do you mind if I run this idea by Suze Orman first?
Saliva - Click Click Boom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfjTZLxekig (3:57)
Salvia, don't do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su-WucK8VRw&feature=player_detailpage#t=57
but people love shortcuts and dont want to do the work to get it the right way (the human brain naturally makes DMT, in increased quantities in very deep meditation.) really, who's got time to sit for a couple hours every night? *guffaw* more like who has the will and drive... and then there's that whole problem of know-how...
Here in Asia the meltdown keeps on keeping on......
Thailand headed for bust big time!
not just 401ks
expect the (public & private) pension funds to take a hit
What proof is there that Tim Crook even sent the email?
Maybe Cramer fabricated it? Maybe Timmy asked him to fabricate it?
I had thought nobody watched CNBs anymore....
Use the fork anyway.
Here...
They can finish cooking it with this. ROFL
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/08/facing-possible-ban-more-americans-are-buying-new-and-legal-900-flamethrowers/
Don't count your chickens just yet... The American people are pig shit stupid and born to disappoint.
Remember that other guy from the same network that is still in the "penalty box" for his putting it mildly unethical behavior during his "reportage" in a war zone! Didn't resign and worst still he's still drawing a paycheck from his editor in chief!
That's probably how they'll fix it... Brian Williams will do the financial and Jim Cramer will do the "front desk" nightly news!!!
One thing to add about retail investors being pig shit stupid.
In many, perhaps most, cases, they are investing in the markets as a result of tax structured encouragements such as 401k and IRA plans.
Given the carrot that is held out in front of them, they don't have many other options to pursue. Their monthly contributions just keep getting deducted and dropped into the market. Granted, many of them don't pay much attention other than at quarterly statement time.
That particular chalice has passed me by-- which is both a good thing and a bad thing-- but at least I'm not trapped on the River of Temptation.
Ceased any and all contributions in 2006. Put all funds into the 'guaranteed 4% fund'...gets mostly ate up by the fees, but I've probably lost the least of anyone in the company since 2008. Somewhere along the line, since 2006, it's practically impossible to withdraw funds for any reason. That alone reinforced my decision to forego any additional contributions until this market craters and a serious clean up is made.
OP
If everyone had your wisdom and said simply that by pumping my monthly paycheck into it I'm prolonging the destruction and killing myself in the process it would have stopped or shall I say started to correct itself long ago.
When you know that the Ferdinand Pecora's in this Country are long gone and that it's up to the individual investor to fix it through collective action then you know you've turned the corner.
Remember how quickly the outrage died in this Country with the bank bailouts in '08? Ask yourself how we let the leaders that orchestrated that one get away!
hopefully shark tank reruns will move to a different channel when cnbc goes under
dont worry those assholes will have their own channel in hell...
The real problem we are facing is the ability to discern what is real and what is fake. It is like waking up in an upside down house, you could swear all is wrong but why is it? What is real?
It is like 1984.
CNBC they just talk.Do not produce anything.Talk is cheap.
nomi prins for fed chairperson.
Not only is she fairly HOT, but she actually "gets it!"
I totally second that nomination.
Furthermore, I'm totally 115% behind her advice for everyone to withdraw at least some $$ out of the system. I totally expect the SHTF but hard to draw a firm time on it.
And that's how I totally see it for now...uh huh.
Ticking another day off so I can safely pull another $5k cash.
I'm a local VIP to the bank, so it's not like I trigger alarms; but when I work with my personal account I take care not to put them in a position that they question procedure.
Who is that scary looking kid with the blonde hair in tha ads? Looks like Gary Buseys baby picture....gonna give me nightmares...
Only thing worth watching on CNBC in the last decade was Santelli's tea party rant.
tits on set were also nice...
Drury
Brennan
various other wenches....and the lastest dildo girl blonde ho in the mornings...
Most of the "moms and pops" are divorced...so I can understand why this is a disjointed stock market...
CNBC's mission? “That’s one of our key jobs, helping to restore American faith, what the stock market is all about.” Straight from the diarrhea mouth of Brian Sullivan. That says it all...
What is the illusion of confidence?
Confidence is the belief in a specific future that in order to be real must be defined by reality, not hope, not wishes, and most definitely not the manipulative desires of those seeking to profit from other's actions.
Wonder if the mom and pop invester caught on that the talking heads must disclose their long positions, not short positions." Look how the market has just gone into red territory!" (LOL by all talking heads). Nah, quick everyone, buy now because this is the bottom! Ka-chinga LOL Ka-chinga LOL Ka-chinga LOL
The mainstream financial media outlets are as worthless to an economy as the big banks. They produce nothing of value. Just make money on dreaming up and transfering fake products.
Cook better deliver on that (violating FD) statement. Big time.
Ten bucks says he doesn't.
When one realizes all financial media types are the equivalent of used car salesmen for the status quo, clarity of their true intentions crystallizes perfectly.
This is like the Japanese market for 10 or 15 years... where they bought each others shit and carefully resisted letting everything crash by all sticking together...
"The more Mom and Pop tunes out – the less to feed on for the HFT’s till eventually there’s no one left to feed on except for themselves"
And further to the point, whatever money Mom and Pop might not have already pulled from the market is presently being taken from them. And when the banking collapse arrives, any bank deposits will also be taken and they'll have nothing left to put back in the market anyway.
That's the problem with kleptocracies, eventually no one has anything. Then the warlords take over.
Exactly. This is happening only because Bill Clinton made it possble. Pushed by both Democrats and Republicans, he signed legislation to pull Glass-Steagall off the books. That was the rule that said investment houses can't gamble with depositor's money. That's how Jon Corzine walked from his multi-billion theft of customer accounts to cover a margin call. Had the average citizen understood the implications of that, things might be different today.
Why not just had stop limits? And what market moving stock has people setting stops at 1.00? This article is a crap ton of horse shit
cnbc
Such a fucked up legacy.
From the days of Dan the Dorf Dorfman....
To the likes of Jim DoucheYa Cramer, asinine and creepster Steve "Porkulous" Liesman, and various CFR stooges and assholes that have "graced" that channel...it is clear.
Save Rick Santelli - who the PTB spared and use as their version of "fair and balanced"....this shitwork is now only "watched" for the data - muted - by fin pros and traders...only turning up the volume to laugh at the shit spewed out of these puppets maws.
Tits wise...Margaret Brennans boobs were nice...bet she's a great fuck!
She is okay... kind of noisy
I used to laugh heartily when (during the '08 turmoil) right after the market's closed (down) CNBC would go straight into their "Markets In Turmoil" segment complete with UFC fighter theme music and a bunch of Wall St shill anchors spewing hype from their gaping mouths. Or that jabroni Maria Bartiromo constantly interrupting guests to ask "Are you buying?" "Are you buying?"
Burn in Hades CNBS I laugh at you and wish you cancellation from the airwaves with every part of my being.
BTW Joe Kernan is a TOOL.
"...all my homies in County in cell block six" Maybe they can show the newly arrived crops of HFT fucktards the many splendored joys of being tied buck naked over a 55 gallon drum...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OrNS2zbTZg
Mom and Pop are not avoiding the markets due to the HFT scamming - Mom and Pop have been broke since 2008 and it's only getting worse.
They are drowning in a sea of debt, interest payments and bank fees. Maybe taxes, too.
Stocks? You must be kidding.
Now...if (when) margin loans go subprime, that'll be a different story.
It happened in China and that was so-o-o terrific for those markets.
The South was right!
For anyone who watched the YouTube video of John Cena bodyslamming Jon Stewart:
I would love to watch a ring filled with CNBC talking heads in one corner and Cena in the other. One-by-one the CNBC creeps meet Cena in the center and spout some of their shit as to buying opportunities and crap. Cena then takes the mike and responds with his own comment before bodyslamming them to the mat one-by-one.
For context, one has to watch the priceless Cena/Stewart video - hilarious!
No embedded video for a replay? Sorry, more words ain't gonna cut it.
the funny part is that the algos are the only ones watching cnbc