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Despite Being A 'Pet Rock', The Premium For Physical Bullion Is Exploding
While status quo-huggers are all too happy to point out gold and silver's lack of utter exuberance amid this week's carnage, perhaps they need to re-comprehend the difference between a heavily manipulated 'paper' market and the surging demand for physical precious metals that is evident in the 20-plus percent premium - and rising - being paid for silver bullion currently...
"One important aspect of the physical market that is often overlooked is the premium it commands over spot price. Right before the Global Financial Crisis in 2008, the spot Silver price fell as low as USD 9 per oz., whereas the price of a 1 oz. Silver Eagle was around USD 17 on the wholesale market and even higher on the retail market! That’s a price premium of 188%!
That means that if you had held 100 oz. of paper Silver, you might have had to liquidate that for USD 900 (assuming the market was not halted for trading then), whereas if you had held 100 pieces of 1 oz. Silver Eagle coins, you would have gotten at least USD 1700 for them if not more."
BullionStar, The Difference in Paper and Physical Gold and Silver in times of Crisis
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paper metal = fools gold
Fools gold, Iron Sulphide, is at least worth something.
The gold bugs have said this for 4 years - and what has happened to price?
Premiums could have gone up by 225% since 4 years ago and you would have still been better off waiting!
I just just got back from adding to my stack. American Rare Coin in Bloomington, MN the premium over spot on 90% junk is 6.35…supply running exceptionally tight. .999 is only $2.30 over.
Apparently last week southern California ran out of the 90%. 2 prices coming bitchez...
thats pretty good. My LCS is about 20% like the article said. His price hasn't come down much since the spot price was sitting near 17.
4-6 weeks delay today on all silver coinage. Will this improve over time, expand or contract. My bet is delays will expand.
Premiums for 90% silver coins are over 50%, if you can find them.
http://www.apmex.com/category/25835/90-silver-rolls-bags-dimes/all
Mostly sold out.
Can't' touch a walking liberty half for less than 8 frn on the bay now. Premium is so high I switched to bullion bars.
Premiums on 90% junk are just under 10%, American Silver Eagles are just under 30% premium to spot, see https://comparesilverprices.com/
Just shows you that the paper gold/silver prices mean almost nothing. Its imporant to try not to equate your stack in terms of the dollar. You should value your stack in terms of what it can buy.
That being said, its obvious that the day that the paper and physical markets completely break from each is coming soon.
This Whole PM's Market Spectrum Is A Joke...
Check Out The Paper Futures Bullshit In The Last Week,
Major Commi Shorting On GOLD Just As
I Whould Expect In A Strong GOLD Rally:
http://www.cftc.gov/dea/futures/deacmxsf.htm
Now Check Out The Last quarter results for PAAS A big SILVER Producer.
They Are basically producing SILVER at +/- spot, increasing production of it(WTF...why?), and losing millions while doing it.
Pan American loses $7.29-million (U.S.) in Q2 2015
Second quarter 2015 highlights:
Silver production of 6.65 million ounces, 1 per cent higher than a year ago and 9 per cent higher than in the first quarter of 2015;
Gold production of 44,400 ounces, 18 per cent higher than both a year ago and the first quarter of 2015;
Consolidated all-in sustaining costs per silver ounce sold, net of byproduct credits (AISCSOS), of $14.46, 20 per cent lower than a year ago;
Consolidated cash costs of $9.44 per silver ounce net of byproduct credits, 25 per cent lower than a year ago;
Revenue of $174.2-million;
Cash flow generated by operating activities of $20.6-million, or 14 cents per share;
Net loss of $7.3-million, or five cents per share.
Indeed A PM's BIZZARO World.................
America the Beautiful 5 ounce silver from the US Mint have never gone below $149.95 regardless of spot, that's $29.99 per ounce.
More than 104% premium.
$73.35 worth of silver and $76.60 worth of "other".
It seems they are actively trying to suppress sales.
My dealer's got no shortage of .999 Canadian Maple Leaf 2015s, very reasonable premium as well. I suspect the shortage is limited to US + online retailers.
There is no major shortage in the U.S. At the present. When I want silver, Gainesville Coins always has silver.
I will say their overall inventory is down quite a bit from previous levels. Almost no inventory on Morgan or Peace silver dollars, and very little 90% bags in inventory. ASE inventory is mainly just 2015 coinage.
My LCS charges 3.95 on Eagles. Not too bad but supply is limited to like 300 pieces total in stock. He had 14 10 oz bars and I took all of them for 1,79 over spot. Wiped them out. 9 weeks for delivery on more if they can get them.
And andrew Maguire comes out claiming that the miners are starting to refuse selling to LBMA / comex
thats one cat that knows the entrails of the market
Gold is going nowhere. It's best to get rid of it while you still can. King Dolla is here to stay. Word to your mother.
Good luck with that.
I won't believe that the price is "exploding" until I see gold at $10k/ounce and silver at $500/ounce - where they belong.
Summer: https://comparesilverprices.com/
100 oz bar premia gone to 10% from 4.5% at Apmex: http://www.apmex.com/category/25670/100-oz-silver-bars
60% of those 100 oz bars out of stock.
Picked up a 100ozt bar for 2.3% Friday morning.
Where? That's what I thought.....
Good luck getting those "pet rocks" in about 45-60 days.
The squeeze is on and when this short squeeze hits, all bets are off.
Details Man! Details. Why 45-60 days ?
I agree, but would like to hear your interpretation of events.
Bullion VS coins? Is there a difference based on that?
If you have to ask, you're already in trouble.
Point was the article didn't mention squat.
Thanks for your reply, though.
I hate to add to the confusion, but johngaltfla was correct. If this is not a discernible difference for you then some due diligence (and a bit of research) is in order. Buy what you like, but BUY! Don't be too concerned about the premium being higher for U. S. coins since the premium stays with the coin when you sell.
with many things, premiums have been known to fluctuate, even disappear. imo better to get a low price on widely available silver, bars or rounds with no "collectible" cachet. for instance, the america the beautiful 5 oz. coins mentioned earlier as not being below $150 are shown as available for $120 but only for the most recent issue (blue ridge). others are shown at higher prices, some over $200 and others unavailable. but this is collectible rarity, not silver rarity (which is getting to be pretty rare itself, especially compared to the futures markets/paper silver).
https://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_americathebeautiful_5oz_bullion.php
I don't think anyone was talking about the ATB 5 oz rounds. Those are an anomaly.
I have always treated my PMs as something very different that coins or stamps.
.
.
where is price for junk you claim?
Oh BULLSHIT Summer of 71. Junk prices are $1551.10 BEST PRICE OF ALL the surveyed suppliers.....that $21.69 an OZ... for $100 face 71.5 oz of silver.
Here is the MATH
$21.69-14.57=7.12 WHICH IS 48.9% PREMIUM OVER SPOT! Under 10% LMAO
Dbl post. Stupid smart fone
Comex Paper PM's Action
http://www.cftc.gov/dea/futures/deacmxsf.htm
I had to pay $20 a piece for 12 peace dollars from my relative who said he could have sold them for $25. I bought every every thing he had.
Delays on everything, and it's only advancing. Bought 10 ounces of silver a month ago, took 2 weeks for them to finally get it here, and at the 'over spot' price per ounce, I feel no sympathy with a miner who is running 'tight' against operations costs.
Bought a 10 ounce stacker 12 days ago direct from mint- still. hasn't. shipped. Getting a bit pissed at this point at the excuses from them about how their 'stated shipping times was wrong on this particular item and has now been updated, oh and your peice was put on the shipping line today', that was Thursday. UPS shows that only a shipping tag was made yesterday afternoon, but no drop off to them/pickup.
Note to stackers, just like everything else in the world, only support those who deliver what they promise, in the manner in which is in good business. Me, I'm looking for a new mint, because SilverTown will never get another dime from me again.
I'm just over the border in WI and could have had it shipped and avoided tax...Risk premium of non-delivery too high for me. Take delivery...now.
Good ole sconny, wait till they shut the bridges down and your stuck in W. Wisconsin. No food coming from Mn...
Texas Precious Metals in Shiner Tx. No monster boxes but they don't sell unless they have it in stock. I can drive down and pick it up. They are out of 1/2 oz gold eagles but have 1/10, 1/4 and full oz. Premium is really stiff on silver. Great company
Thanks for the info. I checked out their site. Much better prices than I've had in a while, and their stock comes from my home state, so I feel like I'm at least keeping some northern locals employed. Too bad their stocks are out right now though, but at least they state honesty on their site. Oh, they did have a few Monster's up for sale when I checked. I guess if you can, get 'em. Me, I'm a deteriorating middle class guy who went from being able to get at least 10 ozt a week to only 10 a month at best....
I said this before, but I have been using a coming called SilverSaver.com for years. Never have any inventory issues. They only list what they have in inventory. If you see in onthe "deliverable" page", then they have it in stock.
I like the way Texas Precious Metals does business. I haven't had a single problem or shipping delay dealing with them.
They have an update page explaining their inventory problem in terms even an economist could understand:
https://www.texmetals.com/news/an-important-update-on-inventory-levels/
I picked up a few dozen assayed silver kilo bars a few weeks ago and it cost less than 11% over spot, and they're still selling at the same spread to spot. So unless they want to cough up methodology and source data... it's just meaningless chart porn to me.
However, I have a more serious problem with this piece of untermenshcen insinuation-
While you may stand to receive a higher premium when selling physical silver (or any other PM) than paper, but YOU PAID A HIGHER PREMIUM IN THE FIRST PLACE for the physical metal.
This is true, but when the "market" breaks again, that premium ensures I'll get more than zero for it. Likely much more.
Yeah, American Eagles are a sucker way to buy stuff. At the moment provident is selling kilos from OPM for spot+$0.99 per toz, and they are not the cheapest folks around. The ask is $512.59 and the bid is $471.11 with them. Folks should remember that this stuff is done in toz and not oz. At 99 cents for $14.65 of metal, the markup is 6.7%.
That depends upon why you are buying silver in the first place. If I have a 100 oz bar I'm gonna have a helluva time with it at the local farmer's market. Whereas, I plunk down a circulated Franklin half or a Silver Eagle -- no problemo. The purpose of the stash determines its composition.... and a little mix of all is good.
What Farmer's Markets are YOU going to???
At the Farmers' Market I sell my organic veggies at,
we take cash, and only cash.
There's no setup for gold, silver, or Rhodium.
WTF, get real and welcome to the world of people who ACTUALLY
work here with their hands and backs.
Your comment is stupid! There is no setup for siver or gold... Ahh No, your brain is not set up for real money.. Yeah, none of us have worked nope just you knucklehead..
At my stand, I remind people that I'm still accepting Federal Reserve Notes this week. A few folks actually understand what I mean by that.
Ha! You are in the wrong part of the country then. My farmers markets all around know the value of a pre-65 silver coin. Two dimes STILL buys ya a gallon of gas, just like it did in the 1960s. I know because I was there buying gas for my '64 Chevy SS Impala.
You must have a real shitty farmers market full of dumb assed dwebs then. The ones here will trade a dozen brown eggs like money. Heck for a good squirrel dog you can get a dozen laying hens. Sack o dope for a load of melons, lol And silver? man if that ever comes out the bargain just got better-.
But then again we have real farmers/horse traders here too.
I believe the point is "100 Toz probably buys way more food at a farmer's Mkt than you can eat before it spoils."
The Amish in Lancaster County, PA will take silver at the farmer's markets. If it involves money, the Amish are pretty up to date and know current prices and rates.
Cool--a contest for who can be a bigger redneck...
And your expecting to find what at a Farmers market? City people riding around in mini vans? you better stick to Whole Foods and hope its real.
.
JM Bullion (.com) have 2015 Silver Eagles for $18.65 presale shipped on or about 10 Sept. That's about $4 premium (~27%) from spot.
There is already two prices, the spreads just aren't very big...just wait til an atrocity worse than the COMEX settling in dollars become the new normal.
Tangible insurance. If you want to be a homeowner with a fully paid off mortgage and no fire or earthquake insurance be my guest.
p.s. - You live on a fault line and the Fire Chief and half the crew are fire bugs.
Yes pladizow, i'll hold my insurance payments until my kitchen catches fire.
20% premium, wtf is this person talking about?
When fiat dies, you will either have something to help you through the tough times, or you won't.
What will the price be, in fiat, of tangible things when paper becomes worthless?
Right now, on a percentage basis, there is almost no participation in the gold and silver market in the west. Yet demand in one of the seasonal low periods is extremely high.
The great thing about gold and silver is the general public, soaked with a barrage of anti gold propaganda, will not enter this market until it is extremely higher. I say starting around 50 silver this time, and probably in the ETF's.
So I think a triple in silver until the sheeple are corralled into SLV by Wall Street for the big paper slaughter. Then hopefully onto the triple digets for the real stuff.
Look, I'm as big a gold bug as the next guy, I'm all in. However, these hysterics about premiums are getting old. When I go to APMEX and click on gold maples for instance, they are selling for $35 over spot for a 1 ounce coin. That's about 3%, not 20%. I really don't give a rat's ass if some rinky dink gold coin shop is asking 20%. The question is where can I buy quantity (retail regular customer 6 figure purchase or less) and how much do I have to pay. Until APMEX is at 20% I don't want to hear a fucking nother word about these damn premiums. Also, no more bullshit about a shortage of silver until I go to APMEX and they are out. OK?
What is the premium on Silver...today, right now?
I have 1 oz Silver Eages (2015) at $4.29 over spot. If spot is 14.59, that is a premium of ???. After you do the math, get back with me.
http://www.apmex.com/category/22100/silver-american-eagles/all
So by buying today at X% premium you are still far better off than if you had bought at any time in the past 4 years.
Thanks captain hindsight
what's your point? people should have waited?
There might be another leg down Pladz, why don't you wait for that one to buy. Never mind all the crazy shit happening all around you, you can get a BETTER deal...
My point was that premiums and "shortages" can not be used to determine investment timing - over the past 4 years they have proved to be useless!
Yet the bugs continue to push this story as a reason to buy!
Instead of looking at rounds go look at what's in stock with silver bars at apmex. First try 1oz then try 10oz. 10oz premium was raised from $1.49 to $1.59/toz in the last day or so for their secondary market pricing. I was "watching" gold libertads the last 2 weeks as they are just about all gone. Odd all the American Eagle stuff is always in stock. Maybe too many fake rounds on alibaba?
I agree with you on timing, but whatever reason people are holding this stuff, they are not letting it go. So if TSHTF moment happens, was there ever a bad time to buy PM? If you were to use apmex as an example there is a shortage on a lot of metal. Prices and premiums both went up together sometime on Friday.
If only you had bought stawks on October 29th, 1929, you would have done much better still. Nice to be able to pick and choose dates, isn't it?
Chubbar is right about gold premiums but totally out to lunch on silver.
Misleading headline. Nice charts on silver though.
I'd like to clarify my statement above. First, I was referring to gold only with regard to the premiums. Also, Silver premiums have always been higher than gold, at least for the last 10 years. I bought silver for around $7/coin with a spot price of $5.XX back in 04ish, that's a hell of a premium and there wasn't any shortage. My exasperation, that was evident in my last comment, was because we here in the gold bug community are always getting whipsawed by the folks who come out with these headlines claiming ( or implying) an immediate shortage of PMs. Maybe this time it's real. But my point in my previous post was to note that GOLD is not experiencing a shortage at one of the largest online retailers (whether they are lowest in premiums or not).
Now, I do note that APMEX is pretty low on silver. I go in and check their inventory on occasion and did again a couple of days ago and again today. They are in an abnormally short supply on silver.
That being said, I also am in communication with one of the account specialists at APMEX. I queried her 2 days ago about her observations on volume of purchases, etc. She replied that she is working at least 2-3 hours A DAY overtime to get her job complete. So, YES, there is hugh interest in PMs and lots of activity at APMEX. I hope this time we do see a short squeeze, those of us who have been in PM's since early 2000's are certainly ready for some good news. Although I'm not sure I want to see what the rest of the world looks like when they finally lose control of them.
It is interesting, APMEX lowest premium ( 1 kilo or more ) for silver is 20%, for gold it is 2%.
He is talking about gold , you about silver, both of you are correct..
$4.29 over spot. If spot is 14.59, that is a premium of ???
4.29/14.59= 29.4%
Agreed, chubbar. Also, I think buying gold in Malaysia where the currency depreciated or inflated by 13% in one year is a different proposition than buying gold in Oklahoma against the dollar.
You can buy gold two for two different reasons. You can buy it as an investor for loss or gains. In this case you are simply a commodities trader and you will rise or fall with the market. This is no different than trading oil, copper or pork bellies.
Second, and my reason, is you buy gold as insurance. It is insurance against a weak currency. It should roughly follow inflation. It is insurance against government confiscation of all properties, through taxation or direct seizure. You can transform some of your wealht into a product than can be carried, transported and traded in other places. You can also physically defend it, if necessary. It is harder to do that with a house or a Fidelity account. Those are confiscated much more easily, either directly or through taxes. I like the insurance aspect.
The whole conspiracy thing, which I used to believe just does not pan out very well. You will not prosper or make good decisions based on those theories.
"It should roughly follow inflation."
Really - gold's inflation adgusted high = $2,300/oz.
And thats using coruupt US Gov CPI #'s.
Refuting these stupid fuckan trolls and their "arguments" gets really old.
Like swatting annoying flies.
Actually, the stupidity is in your mirror. When I say "roughly follow inflation" means that as currency gets devalued all hard goods go up in price. However, a MacDonald's Happy Meall has probably not followed inflation has it? There are still market forces at work, efficiencies in production and the general health or malaise of an economy at any given moment. Gold is a commodity.
Also, depending on where you start and stop your inflationary calculations makes a big difference in what you think the price should be. The truth is that under whatever economic conditions and expectations you have at any given moment the price of gold is just right, just like coffee, homes, or a latte'. When it is flat it represents that moment's balance in value, production and demand.
If you want to say that at times someone wants to distort the market like the Hunt brother's and silver long ago, well that is okay, but that is not a norm and really cannot last in the face of long term market forces.
The fact you all are too stupid to understand it, is actually your problem. There are no arguments presented in your genius assertions that undo anything I have mentioned.
If you are certain of your correctness, put all your money where your mouth is and wait. Wait and see.
I neither hate nor love PM's as an investment. They have some peculiar uses not shared by a ton of coal or 100lbs of copper but they are not immune from market forces.
So, buzz off to your favorite intellectual resting places.
Gold isnt all mined in the US, and just like oil companies for long periods of time miners can sell their product at a loss by barrowing against future production.
So while not immune to market forces gold is vary resistant to them.
Gold is first a political policy decision, and a commodity second.
Your comment was carefully crafted to avoid any mention of gold/silver as long term holders of value. Well done, now explain why governemnts hold gold and have always held gold? Why is China accumuating? I realize you did not touch on this as I said your argument was well crafted.
I was not avoiding that. I am actually trying to discern or explain the truth of PM's as best I see and understand it. Gold and silver do function as a storer of value but so can popular artwork, real estate and anything that is likely to hold it's value. What is stored in the money is the power of the economic exchange...and it is very powerful.
Gold and silver for most of history have been the most convenient and universal forms of money. They are found around the world, are compact and easily exchanged. Here are some of the beautiful things about PM's, especially, gold.
First, it has intrinsic value that paper does not. If we found an old ship from the U.S. Civil war and it it were both Confederate currency, U.S. Currency and gold bars, which would you rather have today? How would you rank them and why? You see the answer.
Second, it has universal value. If you dropped me in Katmandu or the nether regions of Siberia or Borneo without knowing the languages or any other means of support but ten gold coins, I could flash them in the air and immediately begin trading for everything I need. I would have a hard time if it was a Brazillian Real. No one would be sure what it was and probably not give it any worth. I could do the same thing with other things of value but nothing is as likely to have universal high value as a gold piece.
Third, one cannot game the currency. China just devalued it's paper currency. Do you suppose they would trade us 5% more in gold Pandas for our gold Eagles? Do you suppose they would trade us 1.05 tons of their 24 carat gold for 1 ton of our 24 carat gold? Would we take that trade? No one in their right mind would or could do that. Gold forces discipline.
So, do not think I hate gold or PM's. I am just being a realist about what they mean and how they are used in the USA and advanced countries. If you are going to buy them in Kentucky it is not necessarily the same effect or insurance value or trading utility as Bangkok or Ulan Batur.
Don't forget, as was mentioned higher up, you can transfer bullion to heirs or transact in it sans giving the FED a cut...
A good point but it depends on how they value your estate and what they know about it. Ever see the move Secretariat? That is an excellent story of the problems of inheritance taxes...which are immoral.
>>>you can transfer bullion to heirs or transact in it sans giving the FED a cut...
Yes, but be careful as to who knows you possess PMs.
IMHO your estate executor and/or attorney should know NOTHING about your phyzz, though they will have to know about essentially all other assets. Keep your phyzz off your own books, keep any purchase or storage receipts stored very discreetly, and hope that you and your heir(s) never need to produce them.
The plot thickens, though, if your executor is also your heir, or if you have one or more heirs who feel a strong need to be compliant.
The post and the graphs deal directly with silver, not gold. APMEX is also one of the highest priced online dealers. Silver premiums have exploded higher, as have gold, but to a lesser extent (for now)
The only problem I can see with physical now is how do you gamble with it. Options on SLV are absurdly cheap. Everyone is expecting stocks to tank and you pay dearly for far out of the money puts. Not so with metals.
Yeah, there are some longer dated options that look very interesting. Problem is if silver explodes, will you be able to cash out fast enough and will there be any phyzz left?? But I guess extra fiat can always be used to pay down debt if you have any, or buy other preps/hard goods...
You don't gamble with it, that's the point.
The post and the graphs deal directly with silver, not gold. APMEX is also one of the highest priced online dealers. Silver premiums have exploded higher, as have gold, but to a lesser extent (for now)
AMPEX sends you a big tin of popcorn at Christmas time, others don't.
Please tell me you don't buy your PM's from APMEX ???? If so, you must like paying the highest premiums and enjoy a good ol ass fucking. Hopefully they were just an example.
This site saves you from doing the math yourself, and updates as the spot market is trading. Thanks to a fellow ZH'er a while back for turning me onto it.
https://comparesilverprices.com
Agreed, Dirk. Personally I use Provident out of Dallas, but the rest are good as well. Still, my purchase on Wednesday is "delayed", and they have you check off on the fact before closing the sale. I can live with the delay to be able to lock the price.
I also can confirm the ridiculous premium on junk silver. A $100 face value bag of pre-64 coins, (metal value of around $1000), was going for $1465! That's nuts. So I just ordered bullion instead.
The point about the difference between junk and bullion is interesting. Wish the author had gotten into that rather too.
Few know this but Silver bullion was confisated in the 30s 90% is not bullion. It is U. S. currency, hence much less likely to be confiscated if it ever comes to that again.
Tuco
I've bought plenty from Apmex over the years. There are other considerations besides price. People that chased price and bought from dealers like Tulving and Bullion Direct learned the hard way...they are shit out of luck and when your buying small quantities a dollar here or there is not a big deal in the big picture.
That is a direct link to APMEX.
What the hell are you talking about?? APMEX is selling silver eagles about $5 over spot. That is far more that YOUR 3% number that you came up with. It's actually 35% over spot. You need a new calculator. Until I can pay spot price for physical then the spot price has no bearing in my life.
I believe he is talking gold not silver.
It doesn't matter,
he's pissed about this
and no amount of reason is going to help him.
This is why I love ZH.
I could not agree more. For whatever reason Silver Bugs think silver is something it is not. It is not a monetary metal, central banks do not hoard it and there is absolutely no silver shortage.
I constantly hear where silver is below the cost of production. Well, guess what...most silver is produced as a by-product so it will be produced along with copper, tin, gold and lead and sold no matter the price.
As for the premiums; well, they are simply silly and irrational and paid by foolish people. There is a shortage and a run on the stuff the little guy likes to buy like silver eagles and 90%. It is insane to pay a huge premium on 90% for the days will return when you will be lucky to sell it for spot and most likely spot minus X. If you are a silver bull, buy 1,000 bars and get the metal you are paying for. DO not pay 30%+ premiums for Eagles or 50% premiums for junk bags.
Right now APMEX has 1,000 oz bars (lots of them) at spot + .50. This is prima facia evidence there is no silver shortage. And apmex is a bit on the expensive side these days.
To learn more about silver's true faux monetary role in the USA I would encourage you to read FOFOA.blogspot.com. A bit verbose, but very educational. Learn about how the Sherman Act was the QE of its day to help debtors.
I am with you on their being no real shortage of silver and premiums but not the nonsense of it not being a monetary metal. I have silver coins from the Roman Empire. (They are small, common, and I think I might be able to by sammich with their value) If it's been used for money that long it's a monetary metal no matter what you or I have to say about it.
According to your logic copper is also a monetary metal. Go long on plumbing.
It was in pennies, right? Any metal can be monetary but the difference is that cheap metals are used which hopefully do not exceed the face value. The purpose of money is NOT to have intrinsic value these days.
It is also true that there is no shortage. Silver is a rather common byproduct of lots of other mining. It IS a currency metal and what I call "poor man's gold". If we have a crisis in currency, again it is hard to get change for an ounce of gold if it is $1500 or $5k per ounce. Silver will parse much better.
I was referring to some bronze roman coins I have. The primary componant of bronze is copper.
I agree silver will parse much easier than gold. Especially since gold will fare far better than silver when the reset happens. PBOC is not hoarding silver, but they love gold and will cause a reset in its pricing. Silver will (might) be along for the ride.
However, paying a 50% premium for junk silver is just plain crazy. You are much better off buying 1/10 eagles at spot +10% if you are seeking fungibilty at a somewhat sane price.
These are just my opinions, but they are based on a rational thought process and history. Silver bugs do not want to hear anything which pokes holes in their religios affection for silver.
I'm not prejudice, I buy silver, gold, and even some platinum. I love all the sihiny ones, not just silver.
It is. Just not worth as much. You can buy such ancient coins by the pound. Alot of copper's value has been lost by it's modern availability but the same could happen to gold. The Twlight Zone episode "The Rip Van Winkle Caper" comes to mind.
Copper pipe would also be something useful to have in a barter economy should it come to that. Although booze is still probably best. Better than gold even.
oooBoo, I agree booze is likely to be the best barter item. I have many cases of Jack and Wild Turkey in my basement. If the world somehow manages to not collapse (long shot) I can drink the booze myself. It has a a shelf life longer than my own if it is kept in a nice cool basement all boxed up (no light).
Now is proabably a very good time to stock-up on booze. The prices seem to have come down a bit. Prob b/c of lower grain prices.
Hint: Buy cheap booze to trade and good booze to drink. Crappy booze with super high premium such as Jack and Turkey is a two way fail.
Jack is one of the most popular whiskeys on the market. It is not my favourite, but it is the most popular -ask any liquor store owner. Wild Turkey 101 is one of the finest rye whiskys for the price. It is what I drink so I buy it. Like I said, drinking it myself is my backup plan.
Whiskey drinkers will want what they want even after the collapse. This means a bottle of Jack will be worth more to your average Joe than a bottle of Old Grandad or whatever swill you are buying.
You can always make yer own booze...
.
I could not agree more. For whatever reason Silver Bugs think silver is something it is not. It is not a monetary metal, central banks do not hoard it and there is absolutely no silver shortage.
I constantly hear where silver is below the cost of production. Well, guess what...most silver is produced as a by-product so it will be produced along with copper, tin, gold and lead and sold no matter the price.
As for the premiums; well, they are simply silly and irrational and paid by foolish people. There is a shortage and a run on the stuff the little guy likes to buy like silver eagles and 90%. It is insane to pay a huge premium on 90% for the days will return when you will be lucky to sell it for spot and most likely spot minus X. If you are a silver bull, buy 1,000 bars and get the metal you are paying for. DO not pay 30%+ premiums for Eagles or 50% premiums for junk bags.
Right now APMEX has 1,000 oz bars (lots of them) at spot + .50. This is prima facia evidence there is no silver shortage. And apmex is a bit on the expensive side these days.
To learn more about silver's true faux monetary role in the USA I would encourage you to read FOFOA.blogspot.com. A bit verbose, but very educational. Learn about how the Sherman Act was the QE of its day to help debtors.
Great! Well great until you have to use a 1000ozt bar to buy something like a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk. Then maybe not so great...
Maybe melt it down to smaller quantities? Ever heard of thinking 'outside the box'?
If you go back to the beginnings of US you will find that silver was the original money, gold got tied to it later.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
you stand corrected.
The US Constitution refers to gold as THE MONETAERY METAL.
Not Silver.
True statement. Silver came into play b/c of a shortage of gold in the colonies. Silver was readily available from South America at the time. Silver always seems readily available from somewhere.
Coinage Act of 1792
Sorry wikis easy enough to point you in the right direction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinage_Act_of_1792
Foot...meet mouth.
BOP youre right like fish in a barrel.
RIPS
Guess what US dollars, half dollars, quarters and dimes used to be made of? Silver. Are silver dollars money?
It's a conspiracy I tells ya!
Your comment spurred me to go onto APMEX and lo and behold, I was shocked to see the 100oz Silver RCM bars are sold out. That's a big deal. The first time I've ever seen that. They were selling at the lowest premiums on APMEX ("as low as" 1.19/oz... used to be .99 during the good ol' days last year)...
it didn't take much for APMEX to sell out of fractionals. What would it be like if that buying frenzy were sustained? (Yes, there were 1 ounce coins available, and bars.)
> For one: folks that can't afford but fractionals would be SOL.
> Those who wanted to stock up on fractionals for bartering would be SOL. (A 10-ounce bar or 1-kilo bar isn't very "divisible.")
For me, it's a precursor, a warning, of what can play out + how it might play out.
Note: Currently on Apmex, 17 of their 20 fractional silver coin products are sold out.
http://www.apmex.com/category/25255/fractional-less-than-1-oz-silver-rou...
Agreed chubbar -
But APMEX is showing it is "out of stock" on many silver items.
http://www.apmex.com/category/25835/90-silver-rolls-bags-dimes/all?f_bul...
and they want $30 over spot value
for ONE ROLL of Roosevelt dimes! (Which are also "out of stock")
http://www.apmex.com/product/4018/90-silver-roosevelt-dimes-50-coin-roll...
@chubbar
Thanks--first intelligent post on this thread...
Hey CHUBBAR you are an effing LIAR from the APMEX website. One will cost you $60 over spot
1 oz Gold American Eagle BU (Random Year) As low as $47.99 per coin over spot! With an iconic design and 1 oz of U.S. Gold, the American Gold Eagle combines the best aspects of collectibility and bullion investment appeal, which has made it America’s preferred Gold coin. Read More (52 reviews)QuickShip® Eligible APMEX Buy Price: $1,152.50 Volume Pricing Quantity Check/Wire CC/PayPal Quantity: Add To Cart 1 - 9 $1,194.49 $1,242.27
stocking up on cans of spam during your weekend groc run
furiously checking ammo prices online
All while Obama sucks Reggie on the 19th green.
Obama is just a worker bee for those who pull the strings. The golf is proof of how little he really does.
And when he does do something, it's usually to make some race-baiting comment or to appoint some ugly leftist lesbian to head one of the big government agencies.
been there, got that.
Currently my LCS has a premium for one ounce silver rounds of 20.7% over bid price, available today.
The premium for silver rounds delivered on Oct 10 is 13%.
Stack On
Your LCS is a jerk.
Wake up and smell the roses.
Maybe so, but I really don't care. I can have the shiny in my hand the moment the fiat leaves my hand.
Does it really make sense for me to drive an eight hour round trip to the next store? Or use a credit card online and wait for the shiny to arrive in the mail? There is a lot more risk in doing either of those and risk costs money.
Gold for the gods, silver for humans.
A very desirable "pet rock".
it's... my precioussss...
It was going to happen eventually. Now it's a question of when you can't get the stuff at any price.
To me, the price means nothing. I'm holding on to it for a post-dollar world. And if the dollar outlives me, my kids will get it free and clear of inheritence taxes.
Unless you are knocking on death's door, you may very well see the day...
Tick tock, tick tock...
I like the smell of silver in the morning
And I like that GSR of 75-1 and for a recent moment 80-1
the ratio is absurd given it comes out the ground 9-1 historically...
they really think they r fooling anybody with this phony paper price shit???
many - but not us that understand what Gold and Silver really are....
REAL MONEY...AND FREEDOM.
death to the MoneyChangers.
Many thought a G/S ratio of 50:1 was absurd. Now it is 80:1. Before the Sherman Act the ratio was 100:1
The ratio things come out of the ground at is meaningless when it comes to value. If 10 times the amount of amethyst are mined than diamonds does that mean amethyst should sell for 1/10 of what a diamond does?
This is nonsense. One can take delivery on a futures contract for essentially no premium at all.
If people are paying more for coins that's just retail silliness, not a real premium.
SI = 5000oz's
GC = 100 oz's
Got at least $70K?
Who gives a shit? Either there's a out-of-line premium or there isn't--you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Prolly out to STFU...
So you have to buy about 15-20,000$ worth of silver to avoid a premium lol.... what % of the population can afford that without their wife cursing them out.
"Honey I bought 1000$ worth of silver coins for savings"
- wife : "Ok hun w.e"
"Honey I bought 15,000$ worth of silver coins for savings"
-wife: "Im fucking the neighbor". lol