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Despite Being A 'Pet Rock', The Premium For Physical Bullion Is Exploding
While status quo-huggers are all too happy to point out gold and silver's lack of utter exuberance amid this week's carnage, perhaps they need to re-comprehend the difference between a heavily manipulated 'paper' market and the surging demand for physical precious metals that is evident in the 20-plus percent premium - and rising - being paid for silver bullion currently...
"One important aspect of the physical market that is often overlooked is the premium it commands over spot price. Right before the Global Financial Crisis in 2008, the spot Silver price fell as low as USD 9 per oz., whereas the price of a 1 oz. Silver Eagle was around USD 17 on the wholesale market and even higher on the retail market! That’s a price premium of 188%!
That means that if you had held 100 oz. of paper Silver, you might have had to liquidate that for USD 900 (assuming the market was not halted for trading then), whereas if you had held 100 pieces of 1 oz. Silver Eagle coins, you would have gotten at least USD 1700 for them if not more."
BullionStar, The Difference in Paper and Physical Gold and Silver in times of Crisis
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Why get married?
She fights with you about the purchase but wants half at splitsville.
Only half? You had one of the good ones.
It's true - I did have a good lawyer.
What is the market value of marriage?
zero. women are free in all senses of that word
+1000
I LIVED this!
(ugh)
I know a rich guy who wants to go pretty much all-in gold, but his wife will have none of it. Apparently, gold is a useless rock but shoes are an investment. So are the promises of known con artists.
Or maybe she's planning to dump him and wants everything to be visible to the system?
I'm glad I am single going into the collapse. Western women seem to be particularly susceptible to NWO mind control.
They are susceptible to advertising and their friends' opinions.
What's silly is someone buying silver through a futures contract that does not guarantee settlement in silver. You may end up with fiat.
heywood jablomie.....Do you have an armored car?
Picking Up Your Physical SilverContact COMEX to learn about fees associated with removing silver from the depository. It is also necessary to learn from COMEX what pick-up methods are permitted.
Find an agent to do the pick-up and delivery. Commodity Trading Solutions suggests that an armored car is needed, and to call the Brinks company. There may be other agents that are suitable to pick up the silver. Depository locations are in Wilmington, Delaware, and the New York City area, so you will need to find an agent to whom COMEX will turn over the silver and which can then deliver it to you from one of those locations.
Book the delivery agent. Costs may be prohibitive for the individual investor, but a method of pick-up does exist, so there is a possibility of contact between the electronic-financial world and physical reality. Before booking physical delivery of COMEX silver, consider looking into potentially less-expensive means of acquiring much silver. COMEX is focused on trades without physical delivery. There are other commercial suppliers of silver.
Go to a coin show with a wad of 100s. Sit down at a table that has something you want. Chat about baseball, football, have a look at some coins. At the right moment casually propose a cash deal with no paper. If they recoil like you're a rattlesnake they almost stepped on, go to the next table. That is how you deal with premia. How strong do you think cash flow is for coin dealers in the USA right now? You are there to help.
Premium as a percentage and often in dollars increases as the metal price falls. That's been happening for years. Either it's a way for dealers to mitigate losses, make additional profit, and/or an artifact of price manipulation. That is a topic for discussion.
Where are people buying 90% junk silver for less than 35%+ over spot? Everywhere I look I see 40, 45, 50% premiums and/or "out of stock" notices
Luckily for me, yesterday I cleaned out my local coin store's inventory of 90% junk silver at just 12x face value. Got some quarters, some dimes, and a bunch of old liberty halfs. Booyah!
I got 2.63 ounces worth at the bank Wednesday, 8 - 40% and 4 - 90% out of 1 $10 roll of halves...
Please post the address of the bank you got them at....
You have like a 15-30% divergence from spot to physical for silver.
Its very ridiculous.
Unless you are plunkering down 50-80k you aren't getting any meaningful amount of silver delivered to you anytime soon without paying a large premium.
In anycase, as the price of silver/gold drops, obviously dealers will curb their supply (hold back on re-stocking).... they dont want to stock up on inventory that is lossing value faster than they can sell it... and they aren't going to lower prices on inventory that has lost value (prices are sticky).
So you now have low inventory, huge premiums and falling metal prices all these forces point to lower metal prices in the future, but these forces are combatting potentially rising future demand for metals in Asia as Asian govts, Middle eastern govts etc are all about to heavily devalue their currencies, which could cause a potential "run on metal" from the most populated countries on earth.
So who knows.
At best metals have to drop or rise +/-20% in the coming year.
Silver is more vunerable to supply shock than gold for a couple of reasons.
1. Half of all physical silver production is used up by industrial demand every year.
2. Silver is often a byproduct of other base metals like nickel/zinc. A price collapse in another market could have adverse effects on the supply of silver because of it.
3. Future market contracts are not a fair reprensetation of the price of silver IMO (along with gold for that matter) since they allow settlement in mediums other than physical delivery.
The silver market will always be "capped" at either price end because of its nature. If the silver price or base metal price falls too low it will simply stop being produced and price of existing physical will rise to meet demand. If the price of silver goes too high supply will increased proportionally (due to existing sources of reclamation becoming viable, existing physical coming on the market through increased market participation or production etc.)
I think we're probably entering a "supply shock" type of event with decreased demand for base metals worldwide and increased physical demand. It's putting pressure on the market of available goods. Some is price gouging from the bullion coin distributors but even generics are taking awhile to get shipped (lead time increased 2-4 weeks beginning of August for delivery for me at least). I'm seeing production delays pop up on various sites too with lead times of 3-6 weeks.
GoldSilverBull delivered silver coins and 1 ounce bars to me in 2 days this past week. Premium ~30%. Some products are out of stock though.
de l'Argent...that's French for money doncha know...
Ignore the price for a moment and look at the mintage NUMBERS!
44 million+ last year for silver Eagles and over 30 I believe to date so far this year.
Mintages for gold and silver are greater in demand on a population basis than when they were a circulated medium of exchange. Ron Paul didn't work to get that passed for 1986 for hobbyists, he knew we would be faced with needing a replacement money system back then, and we have it. Whether or not you want to exchange last week, now or next month at the market rate is one thing, but one day we'll wake to being told how many of the defunct paper units can be turned in for them, and you're not going to be happy if your on the paper side of that edict...
I doubt there will ever be an official trade-in of the paper units. It will simply happen that fewer and fewer people want paper, and more and more are happy with old silver coins, until the paper goes into the bathroom for its only physical use. And at that point, the government will STILL be loudly proclaiming that the paper money is just "going through a small dip" and is perfectly good for all debts public and private, which means that it's all the government will pay you for work or goods, but nobody else will take it from you for anything.
At which time nobody will do much of anything for the government, because who's going to work for worthless pay?
Sounds about right to me.
Seasmoke new Ask $12,000USD up from 10,000USD.
Mr. Yellen can have as much of my Gold as he wants.
we few, we happy few, we band of silver holders . . .
I took delivery last Friday of a stack of 5 gram Karatbar cards. The 5g cards best value and with working their own commission system they worked out at just over €40 a gram. They even gave me free delivery from FedEx
That can't be bad in days like these
www.teamramgold.com/about-us
Karatbars? Fuck off!!! Ridiculously priced. Muppet fodder.
Much as any of us might wish otherwise, a post paper world is fantasy land. Physical metal is never again going to be legal tender under the present power structures, which aren't going anywhere. It's all paper going forward and your physical metal is never going to be anything other than an underperforming investment asset. There will be no crash.
History says otherwise.
Only question is time. It might last longer than some of us have left.
no shit, really.
wow.
90% is the most liquid, and probably reflective of retail demand (except maybe kyle bass who has a penchant for coinage)
when 100oz bars are 30% up, the boat will be near capacity
bulletproofvest@gold2k.bitchez
with regard to what is money and the funny-mental of central banks not hoarding silver
who the fuck cares...
price is all that matters *cough 1980 cough*
I had a nightmare last night... This is not a joke.
I was in a coin shop arguing with the owner over the fact that he wanted to give me "spot" for my scrap gold.
He kept arguing the fact that my gold only had tangible value. ( wasn't like a rare coin)
I proceded to explain to him that I knew there was a premium for physical, and he started foaming at the mouth.
I woke up in a sweat, and realized silver kills Werewolves, and physical gold kills shyshters at coinshops.
Talking about gold, below is an update on the Nazi gold train found in Poland:
The Nazi train thought to be loaded with weapons, artwork and up to 300 tons of gold.
World Jewish Congress CEO Robert Singer: "Items now being discovered in Poland may have been stolen from Jews before they were sent to death. It is essential to return the property to its rightful owners or to their heirs."
Mikhail Joffe: Russia may lay claim to the Nazi train loaded with gold. (article in Polish, use Google or Yandex to translate)
Nazi gold train: Russia (and Jewish organizations) may lay claim to any treasure in the train.
Seems to me that the Nazis have first dibs.
T. D.
Although I am Mexican I enjoy your Dating Russians ads.
Speaking of ecstasy, that of Gold cannot be too far away, perhaps after a test of the $1000 level and/or a 50% retracement from the all time nominal highs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubVc2MQwMkg
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez (a.k.a. The Rat)
Good luck to the nazis and the jews getting the gold away from the Poles.
The public will hang the politicians by the balls if they try
Maybe what's left of the (Greek)Syriza party can stake a claim on that Nazi gold train.
They better hurry though... Poroshenko and his Nazi( Ukrainian) pals are looking for their cut.
Of course the gold belongs to the jews.
Who else could own gold... lol
You should watch TGSNT aka The Greatest Story Never Told.
You might learn a few things about WW2, Hitler and the Holocaust.
Then look up "become a holocaust denier in 14 minutes"
Let he who wants it most, see above, go in first to get it.
After the booby traps have gone off the sensible ones go in.
Wait until the federal reserve does QE4 and successive QEs. The countries will keep devaluing fiat until a major player blows up. The federal reserve boast about low inflation while saturating the world with debt.
Wait until the federal reserve does QE4 and successive QEs. The countries will keep devaluing fiat until a major player blows up. The federal reserve boast about low inflation while saturating the world with debt.
Above a 6 week wait, it is really "come back later" or no offer.
Emorys' coin dealer; Eagles/Buffalos same price and both $70 over spot for repeat customers.
Kudos ZH for a bullionstar post. Good analysis by Koos Jansen is also at bulloinstar.
Eagles have had a fat premium all year, pretty much always do. It does need watching, but eagles aren't exactly bullion.
I never understood the rationale behind buying high premium ASEs.
It's known just about the world over. The premium stays with the coin when you trade/sell it.
Wanna see somthing really cool? Check this out.
http://www.cointrustapp.com/en/index.php
Ungraded BU Gold and Silver American Eagles are in fact bullion.
Tuco
Paper gold, silver, etc... is worthless to me.
Value always lies in the minds of men.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2015/08/shanghai-exchange-has-7...
Precious metals = pet rocks huh? Well, I've always said I was something of an animal lover.
Well then there should be a market price which is the average among the large suppliers that everyone quotes instead of the banksters fraudulent prices. I go to APMEX to get my base prices.
I just paid 7.8% on some Sunshines....those bricks are selling faster than just about anything.
I see new ASAHI 100 oz bars for 79 cents/oz. over spot
What Bullshit.
Price over spot means nothing. The real questions are: What did you pay for it? and Did you pay too much?
There is no trouble acquiring bullion ANYWHERE online.
Gold and silver have not bottomed.
This is NOT the time to buy gold and silver.
Gold = $925
Silver = $13
LOL@Nostradumbass
Which sites have you visited lately?
you have misspelled NastyDumbAss
Anyone have suggestions on mail-order physical gold (I do NOT want to pay local sales taxes as that only increases the mark-up over spot)? I've found Provident Metals thanks to comments here and I'm wondering the best way to get physical gold at a minimum premium over spot in a form that will be immediately trusted as authentic if redeemed for cash. Gold Eagles are obvious, but the premium is very high. There must be better choices. I've been able to find pretty much nothing very useful on-line about that question.
Thanks.
I've ordered with quite a few sites.
Apmex was my first. Expensive but good service and reasonably fast delivery.
Provident is good.
JM Bullion is fine as well.
Silver.com went well for me also.
I'd suggest either American eagles or maple leafs, use www.comparesilverprices.com to check prices, and choose from either Provident/JM Bullion/Silver.com/BGASC depending on price.
Generally cheaper than Apmex and Gainesville. https://www.moneymetals.com/
https://www.texmetals.com/
I've had very good experience with Provident and JM Bullion. Both charge similar premiums for AGEs or CGMs. JM Bullion typically has a little better selection and their silver prices are usually a lot better.
I'd suggest Canadian Maple Leafs - just as recognizable/trusted, and far more popular outside the USA... if there is any chance that you may want to remove them from The Homeland. A potential plus is that Maples can be legally brought into Canada without declaration or tax.
http://stores.ebay.com/moderncoinmart?utm_source=ebay&utm_medium=ebay&ut...
No excessive premiums here in Europe yet.
There was an interesting article on the price disconnect in Silver, published by Perth Mint.
http://research.perthmint.com.au/2015/08/17/demand-price-disconnect/
Good article, thanks for the link. Interesting indeed...
sarcasm on the Death of the Pacific Ocean is just a Conspiracy theory...
Radiation is a conspiracy theory.
Just because we've seen a couple UME's <Unusual Mortality Events> and multi-species die-offs along the Pacific since 2011 doesn't mean anything, its only been
http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/2015/08/radiation-damage-to-pacific...
We are having a sale on 1oz silver american eagles rounds, just 13 euro per coin.
https://www.eurgold.eu/silver/american-eagle-1oz-silver-coin-1-dollar-legal-tender-2015/
Kind regards
Shane
EurGold
Shipping is 34.95 euro on a 20 coin roll.
I am not afraid.
This stupidity again? Eagles are constrained supply. Government does not respond much to market forces. People demanding Eagles are a particular subset of the PM buyers. Eagles are a fraction of a % of the PM market. Why does ZH keep posting this stupid, retarded, moronic, bullshit? You cannot use a tiny non-random subset of data to represent the larger dataset, period, end of story. Premiums on Eagles does not mean premiums in physical vs. the market.
Why does ZH keep posting this...?...
It's not just the "constrained" eagle coins, it's any of the typically easily recognized and free flowing silver coinage most frequently used by stackers and others distrusting of excessive fiat denominated pools of wealth. Notice the 90% charts? Junk silver is my personal favorite, and being neither excessively wealthy nor particularly adept in global finance, I do remember when these coins entered into circulation originally and feel quite comfortable in continuing to add to my off the grid 401K.
The premium for 100bucks of face valued junk (equivilent to 71.5 oz ag), is typically at least what 100 oz of .999 bullion goes for in spot value, which puts the premium at least ~30%. That's without taxes or shipping charges which small guys also encounter when goofin around with locals and private sellers.
This article is not "stupid", but I do tire of the need for ZH to continue to state the obvious.
jmexperience.
I just checked my Sprott Physical Silver Trust (PSLV) and it only has a premium of 0.5%. What gives? Why is the Sprott fund not trading at as high a premium as physical metal? As I have the form on my desktop that would allow me to take delivery of my holdings, you would think it would be valued similarly.
I know you have Sprott which sounds good but you still have 3rd party risk.
It's misleading to say premiums are "exploding", truly absurd.
It's ALWAYS about $4 over spot for silver bullion. The mint has machines and it's a fact of life that you have to pay $4 over spot to get one beautiful, stamped, perfectly round silver eagle coin.
If silver goes to $30 per oz, you will need to pay $34 for a silver eagle (spot plus $4)
If silver goes to $14, you will need to pay $18 for the same silver eagle (spot plus $4)
Anyone who thinks premiums are exploding because the same $4 represents a different percentage of the sale, is just a dumbass.
ZH you are legendary in making stupid statements about silver. I still remember you proclaimed a global silver shortage because the mint had run out of PROOF coins (which they never make that many of anyway). GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER and stop writing this BS.
Always $4 over spot? Mint ran out of Proofs? WTF are you talking about?
First- there is Spot, BID and ASK and this is not a fixed dollar amount. It's a %. With Ag at $16. spot, ASK on SAE's $4 over would be 25% over spot? While at 50. $4. over would be 8% over? The real crux is what is the BID. What one can sell them for is all that matters.
Secondly- The US Mint produces few Proofs. That is NOT what they constantly run out of! They consistantly run out of bullion SAE's especially when Ag gets slammed at Crimex. Do you think .Gov wants to deliver after a coordinated monkey hammer- even though in accordance with the Constitution Silver and Gold coinage must always be available as it is the only form of currency recognized?
Lastly- Worldwide premiums (where Au and Ag aren't "pet rocks") are at an all time high. Ingots and coins.
Dude do you buy silver eagles? Yes they are always $4 over, give or take $0.50. If spot is $10 and the eagle is $14, then you paid 40% premium. If spot is $20 and you paid $24 for the same eagle, you paid 20%. Spot goes down, premium goes up. Spot goes up, premium goes down. Very basic concept.
1. I just bought some silver eagles. Spot was $15 at the time so I paid $19. If silver spot goes to $30 I'll still buy eagles because I like to buy. So I'll pay $34. I haven't seen the premium on eagles change from $4 per coin and I've been buying silver eagles for years. ZH expresses premium as a percentage of spot. If spot goes down, of course the percentage premium goes up.
2. About two years ago ZH posted an infamous article stating that silver demand had soared "because the US mint had run out of silver". But the mint had only run out of silver eagle proofs, they had plenty of BU. As you know, they don't even make many proofs. Running out of proofs meant nothing. ZH looked like idiots.
I will say, if spot keeps dropping, premiums will go higher than $4.
If you were paying a $4 premium for ASEs years ago you were being robbed. For me it was always well under $3.
Seems like I recall getting some tubes of Canada maples and it was $2.25, that was the lowest.
Maybe so, a month ago lowest I could find 2.99, now it's at least 4. And junk silver which had really cheap premium is.shooting up too. Premium.for generic bullion is two bucks, you nay sayers looking like idiots.
Want to reduce premiums, just buy silver rounds. They are pure silver, but not a fancy minted coin, and that adder is way lower. If you bought $3000.00 worth and sold them two years later because silver went up 15%, it's a very good deal, as an assay test is only about $35.00. You would be way ahead of someone who paid a typical premium for a pretty coin. Who needs the perfect fancy minted coin, anyway? It's just a container for the silver. Isn't it the soup most people want, not the can?
You're probably right but when you sell back the silver eagle you will get a higher price then too. It's just splitting hairs to me. Same for gold, as you pay more for fractional coins. You usually pay more for the buffalo. But when you sell it back you get that extra $1 per coin on silver or $25 on gold. Whatever.
That's pure Bull shit. The spread at Perth Mint for Gold is around 1.5 % between buy & sell and for silver its 3.4% . On top of that if you want physical you pay for fabrication which is way higher for coins than Bars especial in size. Usually here in Australia at least you can buy PM s without a huge markup /premium. Only idiots pay 20% over spot!
I think this article refers to physical.
Right now there is a LOT of physical silver in shops and loads of it on Ebay by reputable sellers. And of course you're right the fabrication for coins is higher than bars.
I bought a bunch of 1980s ASEs about 5 years ago and paid about $30 each. The premiom at the time was only $2.65 or so. Now those same ASEs are not even available from major dealers online or in my LCS where I bought them. They are available however on ebay for about $30 each so in that sense there is a huge premium now. The market is clearly much tighter than before.
Learn about what you are talking about before spouting off like an idiot.
$4 per ounce premiums are RARE and are for things like Chinese Pandas or UK Britannia coins.
For ASEs and Maples it's typically 2 to 2.50 per ounce
Private bullion rounds are generally 1.59 down to 39 cents over spot if you buy in bulk.
Bars typically start at 1.79 and go down to 39 cents if you buy 1000 ozt bars.
Those prices are normal. Premiums change when physical shortages approach which is exactly what is happening now.
Where can I find a longer term version of those charts?
I see the premium staying the same where I buy, but expressed as a percentage of course it increases as the price falls. That's simple 6th grade math.
http://www.apmex.com/product/93039/1002-90-oz-silver-bar-asahi-00753-9-9-4
Only $0.49 per oz over spot. Don't get frauded by dealers who ask crazy premiums.
I'll take every pet rock no one wants just ease your burdone lol
Gold is money always was always will be
If it costs $5 to make an ASE, then why does it cost $50 to make a AGB?
Premiums often increase when prices drop. There is silver stuck in the supply chain, purchased at higher prices. The dealers and middlemen want to get their money out of their inventory, so they do that with premiums. Premiums are often lower when the prices are rising, becasue dealers/middlemen are "making" money on their stock they bought at a lower cost
The other thing that's happening is a PERCEIVED shortage, and that pushes up demand and the dealers simply take advantage of it.
Exactly like what's happened with 22 rimfire ammo the past year. Prices are in the ridiculous range, about $50 a brick, if you can find it in stock. But 2 years ago, it was $20 a brick.
Why? Simple, when people go into a store and see the shelves empty, or nearly empty, they THINK it's a shortage, so they buy everything that's available, adding to the shortage. The next time they go to the store, the shelves are still empty, so they THINK there's a dire shortage. Yet the factories are working full out, and have been for the past 2 years.
When does it end? When people have stacked enough and don't need/want anymore, and the manufacturers catch up with demand, and people walk into a store and see shelves fully stocked. Then they don't feel the pressure to keep buying.
Exactly the same thing is happening with silver. People THINK there's a shortage, so they buy more, creating a shortage and the dealers can (and do) charge whaterver they want, because people WILL pay.
" perhaps they need to re-comprehend the difference between a heavily manipulated 'paper' market and the surging demand for physical precious metals that is evident in the 20-plus percent premium - and rising - being paid for silver bullion currently..."
As Martin Armstrong noted, the trend cannot be manipulated. Manipulation can occur within the trend- and it does.
I don't know of anyone who has claimed that gold was manipulated from 255 up to 1900. The claims are that gold has been manipulated down to 1,100. But all commodities are dropping and gold is a commodity. A deflation wave is not going to raise the price of gold. A huge number of people don't have money to pay for a major expence, let alone to buy a single gold coin.
The S.D.R's or special drawing rights were around in the 1960's. The Monetary Sin Of The West by Jacques Rueff was very good at explaining the so-called gold exchange system. Rueff was De Gaulle's mentor.
Real people know the difference between PET ROCKS and PET PAPER. Anyone who is still holding PET PAPER will get what they deserve for supporting the WORLD WIDE PONZI PAPER SCHEME (WWPPS), designed to enslave billions of people. The doors to get out of this enslavement are going to close very fast, once the U.S., Japanese, E.U., Chinese and every other citizen realizes that devaluation steals years of value from their savings. U.S. PONZI PAPER SCHEME, Japanese PONZI PAPER SCHEME, E.U. PONZI PAPER SCHEME, Chinese PONZI PAPER SCHEME, What's the difference?.
By the way, who is John Galt?. _ JOHNLGALT