This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
The End Of "The Permanent Lie" Looms Large
Submitted by Satyajit Das via The Sydney Morning Herald,
Like the characters in Samuel Beckett’s Waiting for Godot, the world awaits the return of wealth and prosperity. But the global economy may be entering a period of stagnation.
Over the last 35 years, the economic growth necessary to increase living standards, increase wealth and manage growing inequality has been based increasingly on rising borrowings and financial rather than real engineering. There was reliance on debt-driven consumption. It resulted in global trade and investment imbalances, such as that between China and the US or Germany and the rest of Europe.
Everybody conspires to ignore the underlying problem, cover it up, or devise deferral strategies to kick the can down the road.
Citizens demanded and governments allowed the build-up of retirement and healthcare entitlements as well as public services to win or maintain office. The commitments were rarely fully funded by taxes or other provisions.
The 2008 global financial crisis was a warning of the unstable nature of these arrangements. But there has been no meaningful change. Since 2007, global debt has grown by US$57 trillion, or 17 per cent of the world’s gross domestic product. In many countries, debt has reached unsustainable levels, and it is unclear how or when it is to be reduced without defaults that would wipe out large amounts of savings.
Imbalances remain. Entitlement reform has proved politically difficult. Financial institutions and activity dominate many economies.
The official policy is “extend and pretend”, whereby everybody conspires to ignore the underlying problem, cover it up, or devise deferral strategies to kick the can down the road. The assumption was that government spending, lower interest rates and supplying abundant cash to the money markets would create growth. While the measures did stabilise the economy, they did not lead to a full recovery. Instead, they set off dangerous asset price bubbles in shares, bonds, real estate and even fine arts and collectibles.
Economic problems are now compounded by lower population growth and ageing populations; slower increases in productivity and innovation; looming shortages of critical resources, such as water, food and energy; and man-made climate change and extreme weather conditions. Slower growth in international trade and capital flows is another retardant. Emerging markets, such as China, that have benefited from and recently supported growth are slowing. Rising inequality affects economic activity.
For most people, the effect of these problems is unemployment, reduced job security, the deskilling of many professions and stagnant incomes. Home ownership is increasingly out of reach for many. Retirement may become a luxury for all but a few, reflecting increasing difficulty in building sufficient savings. In effect, living standards will decline. Future generations will bear the bulk of the cost as they are left to tackle the unresolved problems of their forebears.
Governments are unwilling to tell the truth about the magnitude of the economic problems, the lack of solutions and cost of possible corrective actions to the electorate. Politicians have taken regard of historian Simon Schama’s comment that no one ever won an election by telling voters it had come to the end of its “providential allotment of inexhaustible plenty”. The official policy articulated, in a moment of unusual candour, by Jean-Claude Juncker, the current head of the European Commission, was that when the situation becomes serious it is simply necessary to lie.
Ordinary people are complicit; refusing to acknowledge that maybe you cannot have it all. They sense that the ultimate cost of the inevitable adjustments will be large. It is not simply the threat of economic hardship; it is fear of a loss of dignity and pride. It is a pervasive sense of powerlessness.
The political and social response is likely to be volatile. It was the fear and disaffection of the middle class who had lost their savings in the events of Great Depression that gave rise to totalitarianism.
For the moment, to paraphrase Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the “permanent lie [has become] the only safe form of existence”. But the world cannot postpone, indefinitely, dealing decisively with the economic, resource management, social and political challenges we face.
»
- 55942 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Hmmm, let's see, acknowledge your own role in this mess and work towards bettering yourself and fighting back...or...put on the tube and grab a beer. Work really hard in an almost hopeless situation.......chill out. Decisions, decisions.
Take it from a different kind of addict - Denial ain't just a river in Egypt
tick tock boom http://www.philiacband.com/propaganda.html
Nobody really wants the truth.
Because it means we all die.
The Big Lie will continue through the ages ahead as it always has since the first lie was told.
Because people want to be painlessly stupid so they don't despair
Big difference today is few people can survive independently of the Big Lie system of government and media
If they were to actually admit there's a problem, then they would have to fix the problem and we'd hear the battle-cry of the free shit army"Where's our free stuff!" with the full support of the special snowflakes and the SJW crowd. Wall St. and the mega-banks has convinced the stupid class in DC that they can fix everything with just a few more laws and a lot more magic money. Doom porn at its finest.....
man-made climate change...
enough of the zionist jew media bullshit
It's amazing how these assholes manage to slip in the Big Lie about man-made climate change, and then attempt to tie it to extreme weather conditions without backing up their argument with one iota of proof.
I guess in order to combat man-made climate change everyone in the developed world will have to give up their savings to big .gov to solve the problem.
Huh..........what's that..........nobody has any savings!? They're all living paycheck to paycheck.......uh huh........ok
Oh well, back to your regularly scheduled program of The Caitlyn Hour of Transgendered Power.
Actual scientific evidence is evil and must not be allowed. So back to the idiot box for all the proles......
You don't have to be a chump and believe the unstated premise of this article.
The premise of this article is the cause of the lie.
But they said the science was settled.
Rational thought and personal success are the anathema of parasitic governments.
I just finished reading Atlas Shrugged, and I can't help but notice that there are a whole lotta people that look just like James Taggart...
But whatever. It's not going to be my problem. I won't let it be my problem.
Le shrug.
As soon as I read that part...I stopped reading and headed right to the comments. Hate to see thsi tidbit didn't make it further up in the comment section calling these fools out. Repeat after me....there is no man-made climate change.
enough of the zionist jew media bullshit
Here is a man who did something about it.
http://news.yahoo.com/white-supremacist-admits-three-kansas-murders-seek...
Just a thought though - did China become an absolute cesspool of filth and heavy metals because that's what the planet has been doing for many millenia, or could it be that the US and other countries have had a hand in destroying the land and waterways via the use of hundreds of millions of Chinese workers hellbent on making a buck? Or is that not considered changing of a climate?
Enough of this false dichotomy of either Man Made Climate Change or This is just a Climate Cycle. Just like the sky over China, there's a lot of grey area that no one can really see.
On a long enough time line...
FORWARD SOVIET!
Our planet has greedy, power hungry sociopath's in key positions fucking everything up.
Hi all!
My name is Edwin and I started my own website a year ago, specialized in Technical and Cyclical Analysis, see www.TripsTrading.com.
I started this website mainly out of 1) dissatisfaction with all the talking heads out there, 2) the desire to help the retail investor and hopefully, in time, 3) to make it my dayjob (now, I'm still a teacher, also a great job).
I have spend the last ten years developing my strategy and I can tell you, it works (Since start > 700%, YTD 159%, Q1 44%, Q2 42% return).
If you would like to try it out, you can now do it for free, the 1st month. After that, I only ask $15 a month. I don’t want to place adds on the site so I would like to be compensated for my time and information.
Take a look at my site and let me know if you have questions. And please don't react negative to this post, there's enough comments/info out there that adds no value.
Enjoy the day!
yo Edwin,can i sign up for your site if i masturbate a lot
Denial may not be a river in Egypt, but they have just found a big gas field in the Medit in Egypt's waters.
850 Billion Cu Metres...it should give that country some foreign currency and wealth.
They need it!
http://www.timesofisrael.com/largest-mediterranean-gas-field-found-off-e...
Now, if they could just get rid of the pesky Assad and build a pipeline through Syria up in to Europe we could finally rid ourselves of that mean ole bully Putin.
Or at least some fuel to BBQ the bread strapped to their helmets; better for Italy than Egypt.
Please, we have been lying since at least 1980.
If not for manipulated data, US GDP would be 50 to 70% less and inflation much, much higher.
US official inflation in 2014 was 0.8%. Chapwood inflation was 9.7%. So real US GDP was 8.9% lower than official real US GDP.
The Nominal GDP of 5.6% for 2014 becomes real GDP of -4.1%.
The revised real GDP for years 2011 to 2013 worked out to -6.2%, -6.5%, -6.5% respectively.
What is the Chapwood Index?
"The Chapwood Index reflects the true cost-of-living increase in America. Updated and released twice a year, it reports the unadjusted actual cost and price fluctuation of the top 500 items on which Americans spend their after-tax dollars in the 50 largest cities in the nation."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-29/inaccurate-statistics-and-threa...
Chinese Rating Agency Dagong: America's Economy Is Actually Less Than Half The Size It Claims To Be
The total output value of the U.S. financial services industry is composed of two major parts: one is the transferred production value, most of which comes from value distribution of participating in international production. Another part is the inflated value originated from credit innovation, which belongs to bubble value. In addition, due to the high economic financialization, more than half of the profits in the real economy come from the returns of financial activities. If we exclude the factor of virtual economy, the U.S. actual GDP is about 5 trillion U.S. dollars in 2009, per capita GDP about $ 15,000. Meanwhile, the total domestic consumption was 10.0 trillion U.S. dollars and government expenditure was 4.5 trillion U.S. dollars.
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-dagong-us-gdp-2010-11
Governments are unwilling to tell the truth about the magnitude of the economic problems
You mention America's true debt of $210 trillion and you are likely to lose your job
Truth is treason in an empire of lies
I've spent most my life trying to awaken the sheep about the FED and govt lies and it has been an exercise in futility.
People don't want the truth. In fact, they hate the truth.
And the truthteller in the particular.
Talking to a MD this am at the barn ,and I thought he got it.
Then he ashed if UST's were safer than stawks right now.
Let them die dumb, its what they want.
the 2 biggest lies going.........that the FRN is money (it is debt) and the zio-british empire (jews) started both world wars...........not the germans.......
This guy was no keyboard warrior. He did something about the Jews.
http://news.yahoo.com/white-supremacist-admits-three-kansas-murders-seek...
Yeah he killed some people that weren't Jewish. "You had one job...." Or so the meme goes.
I got to admit that is generally where Jew hatred ends. Because the ovens need to be fed.
First they came for....
"Are you ready for some football!?"
The lights and colors are so bright and pretty.
I accepted tickets to a pre-season game last night. This was the second game I had attended in the last 20 years. It was a sad experience.
This farce of a sport is supposed to espouse toughness and grit, but the stadium "officials" were so afraid of my wife's purse, they insisted she could not bring it in.
Then we stood and sang about bombs, rockets, and bravery.
We need to keep the "nonfinancial GDP" meme going. I'll bet non-financial GDP peaked the same month median real income did, August 1971.
Bullshit! We've been lied to since 1776.
Everything is fucked up and bullshit.
It's called life. Welcome aboard. Care for a drink?
Be neither dismayed nor a Talmud/papist gaslighter of we Goyim.
America is the prophesied "Israel," Isaiah's "Zion," God's "Promised Land," which is why our founder and prophet, Mr. Jefferson, named the Creator of the universe our Sovereign.
In so doing our "Novus Ordo Seclorum" (the New Secular Order) and our divine right of Individual Sovereignty under Truth and Justice alone supplants the Old Sectarian Order of king and pope, whose assassins, pedophile priests and rabbis, and banker-intermediaries now seek to restore, rebadged as the "New World Order."
Read the Bible and the writings of The Founder, and know only by grace and the repentance of the American El-ectorate shall the Talmud/papist Beast now upon us be cast down.
What? There's something wrong with the economy?
Don't forget climate change. That's really whats wrong with the economy. Shit, talk about falsehoods.
Don't change the subject:
Some are predicting that over 400 clergy and religious leaders will resign their positions this Sunday after their names appeared on the Ashley Madison list. As many of you know, this website facilitated affairs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-chuck-currie/ashley-madison-and-the-cl...
They were doing research for upcoming sermons. Or else they were set up by Russian FSB agents.
That's where I thought, how much more is incorrect, when one of the great permanent lies of AGW and extreme weather are included as real problems?
There's no climate change, there's no global warming–anthropogenic or otherwise–and your delusions will be the end of you.
I think somebody's gonna get a sarcasm detector from Santa for Christmas this year.
It is a bit young, needs some seasoning.
right on the money seagate. climate has never changed before in millions of years and now it is (gasp) changing. bad climate, bad bad bad
What's with this 'we' shit?
Exactly. "I" have gone to great lengths to separate myself from the "we". Sure, you can claim that separation is impossible, my portion of the national debt, property taxes, income taxes, etc, but I have reduced what I can to near-zero, and don't care about the rest.
Who is this "we"?
This "WE" is you,me and everybody else on this planet.
"WE" can't hide from "IT".
"WE" can't hide from "IT"
Maybe your "we" can't, but my "we" can! About the only thing that 'll get us is the complete destruction of the entire planet.
And my youngest is in line for the mars colony, so even that might not stop us!
collectivist mindset
I recently spoke for hours with a nice girl from Russia, maybe 40 years old. A very smart girl, but everything was in the context of "we" She seemed to have trouble thinking of herself as an indiidual. I assume it was a result of the Soviet school system.
People love using pronouns. They were saying that those people are the cause of the problems we face. See - everyone is blameless because there's no one to blame!
Did you meet her on Ashley Madison?
The dollar is going higher as foreign currency devaluations continue.
The dollar will be replaced with a discounted domestic dollar.
All will feel the pain as import prices go higher.
Oil will return to $100 soon enough.
Timing is everything.
I'm sure a plan is ready for implementation.
An initial 1 for 1 $ will be irrelevant when import prices climb higher.
Imagine what has to happen first in the US for this to follow?
gotta doubt that...
Usually an over printed over valued currency just hyperinflates and is replaced by another...just like it. eventually, in the past, a stronger currency or specie replaces all local currency.
In the US, being the reserve currency, the whole world will be affected. Eventuall the lie of abundant resources to fill the promise of excess currency must be revealed. This will mean the currency must die.
How it is replaced is a question but a duplicate currency for just domestic use seems very Jim Wille to me.
The only thing that matters;
Do you, or your society produce value? Does your " labor", whether it is physical or mental, increase the value of raw materials, produce something needed, or provide a valuable service?
Cutting someone's grass is ok, if the owner is using his time in a more valuable way.
Teaching is good. But only if the student ends up with a marketable skill.
If you're in government, chances are, you are a waste of resources. Someone, somewhere, has to produce something of value, sell it, and then be extorted of part of the value, for your benefit. And it's not someone, it's many somebodies. And they are fewer and fewer.
And the money changers. Some were needed. Provided a service. But the financialization of EVERYTHING is a problem.
Your pension is based on a Ponzi scheme. Only works when more assholes are shoved in the hopper behind you. Especially Social Security.
Enjoy it while it lasts. You should hope to be dead when it ends.
Carbon dioxide has increased from 268ppm to 405ppm over the past 150 years.
We live on a finite world with limited capacity to maintain homeostasis. Most economic models posit infinite resources and infinite adaptability. Most economists believe in magic and God.
Start there in this discussion.
If bankster criminals went to prison, the economy would be sound.
Eric Holder's DOJ has some responsibility for the collapse to follow.
He didn't do it alone.
He's not that brave.
You know that ppm means "parts per million"? Right?
And, any slight change solar activity or water vapor will have exponetially greated effects? Yes?
And, the theorized effects of CO2 are dininishing and certainly not grometric? Right?
And I like warm better than cold.
You know that gigatonne means a billion tonnes, right?
If you like warm so much, move to fucking Venus.
Don't tell those folks CO2 is what carbon based life forms like trees and food are made of because they think all that plant stuff magically appears. When they find out the weight of a tree or a corn stalk, once you remove the water weight, is substantially the CO2 it took from the air it makes their heads spin.
The CO2 devil is about taxes and redistribution of wealth concocted to fool the feeble minded.
Just look at Al Gore's carbon footprint and ask yourself if he truly cares...
Think! CO2 levels are a direct measure of what we see. If plants and algae were "keeping up" then you would not see the change in level.
Secondly, do you see forests growing so fast that they are force-depopulating the planet or do you see natural habitats and forests being plowed under to make food?
No one can be this stupid, Bollixed.
And you are without credibility!
"No one can be this stupid, Bollixed."
Apparently that's not a true statement.
I hope one day you'll actually look at the facts instead of spouting off propaganda produced by those with an agenda. You're being fooled by your own biases.
Carl Sagan was smart, Nobel Prize winner in Physics (you actually have to do things first that others can repeat usig their data and yours). His prescription for policy was exactly the same for exactly the opposite scientific findings.
Good hope, won't happen. It is presenting an emotional argument that can't be overcome with logic and/or reason. It doesn't understand separation of effects, local variability, or know the greenhouse gas that dominates the greenhouse effect. It wishes to ban volcanos and wipe the PRC off the map for all of their CO2 contributions. {it doesn't recognize this wish, though}
- Ned
"spouting off propaganda produced by those with an agenda"
Its useful, when you are listening to what you think is nothing but propaganda, especially in this case, to look at what that agenda might be. In this case, the agenda, the solution, so we are told, is a tax on carbon emissions, to be controlled and administered by govts, preferably a supra-national entity like the UN. What emits carbon? ALL ECONOMIC ACTIVITY. The solution to this, therefore, is a global tax on fuckin everything. SO, if you are a cynical person, that would lead you to believe that since the end goal is a new tax on everything, as well as greater control over the masses, all of this global warming business is just a convienent means to that end. The same thing was tried with the global cooling emergency a while back. "the science is settled" we were told. Now its changed from global cooling to global warming, and is now simply 'climate change'. All along, the end goal was the same- what amounts to a global tax on everything.
It is also useful to point out to those on the left that when you here people like bernie sanders promising to fight climate change, what he is really doing is promising you a lower standard of living. While I personally believe that we are ALL heading for a lower standard of living once our multi generational debt binge finally blows up in our faces, I don't want to pay higher electricity rates or more at the pump just to satisfy the desires of those on the left to "do something" nor do I want this money going to any govt entity to oppress me more.
Do you see the thermometer outside my window which is displaying a temperature in line with what I've experienced for the past 52 years and not some great increase in temperature?
Nope, can't see it. We did have 120 inches of snow this winter though. In March and April, we were mighty happy that finally global warming came to Boston. It was only last month that the last of the snow melted from the big pile ('cuz you can't dump snow into Boston Habah, 'cuz it is politically incorrect water).
You are not saying that you are placing your mere anecdotal experience up against rigorously developed computer algorithms, are you? Granted, global warming algorithms are not up to the quality of the HFT 'bots that we've been watching these many years. Much more money on Wall Street and The City, poor academic schlubs scrambling around for pennies.
- Ned
rigorously developed computer algorithms.
You don't know how right you are, those algorithims have all sorts of manipulations, sorry adjustment factors embedded right there in the FORTRAN source code as comments. Read the link and report back to us.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/crus_source_code_climategate_r.html
Forests come , forests go .. in the US/Canada there is more forested land now than at any time since Lewis & Clark mapped it out... We have 300M people+ in the US and more forest than in 1850 because we can grow our food in a much smaller footprint... And don't think that the Amazon/Brazilian rainforest is "pure" either ... it's only a few hundred years old.. it was cut before and it will be again.. I don't believe the SPECULATION about CO2 in PPM from over 100 years ago .. I don't think the methods used are terribly accurate ,, just as temp readings from 1900 mean comparing current readings to "Does this look like 87 or 88 to you Vern?" while looking at a small glass/mercury thermometer.. The planet self balances things like CO2.. I don't believe the lies.
Felled an axe and a cross cut saw, not pulled over ten or twenty every few minutes with a bulldozer and a chain.
How do you know there's more forested land than anytime since Lewis and Clark travelled across the continent? Could it be that mapping has become more accurate, and while there is a larger reported figure than what Lewis and Clark originally reported, the currently reported figure is actually less than what existed in 1850? You can only build so many cities and towns, and create so much farmland before you actually start reducing the total size of forests on a continent.
"How do you know there's more forested land than anytime since Lewis and Clark travelled across the continent?" He knows because John Stossel has been telling him that on Fox News for years.
What happens when we run out of CO2 in the atmosphere? Where do we go then?
I get that you have a magic-delusion and live with a background belief that the universe was created for us. You start from that point and then assemble only data and theory that defends the notion that man cannot destroy his own habitat.
"And, the theorized effects of CO2 are dininishing and certainly not geometric?"
Three things, Seagate. 'the effects of CO2" are diminishing is a strange phrase. CO2 persists for as long as 200 years. It diffuses into our oceans and acidifies them and strikes a balance with CO2 in the atmosphere. If and when we stop burning fossil fuels, the CO2 will then have a gradual net diffusion back from the oceans into the air.
Regarding "Geometric", it is not necessary to have a geometric growth in CO2 for it to be a problem. Try taping a bag around your head to understand that. If by gemotretric you meant that the rise in CO2 levels does not trigger a positive feed back loop, then you are sadly mistaken. Many such positive tipping points are now identified such as the heating of the oceans and tundra/permafrost sufficient to melt and release methane stores on the ocean floor and deep soil.
Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas, and though it only has a 20year or so half life in the environment, if it 25times more potent at trapping heat and there is a massive amount of it ready to be unlocked from the methane-clathrate/hydrate form.
Warm is better? Do you like to eat food when you are warm? Food scarcity and sea level rise and the loss of shellfish are some of the predicted effects. Enjoy your soylent green!
novictim
If the scientific community, what ever that is, really wants to engage the thinking world it should: stop lying about data, include solar models into its models, stop calling other scientist 'deniers', stop treating others as heretics, stop passing taxes even before the data has been analyzed...and...stop lying.
The scientific community could tell you the worlds financial system is a big fucking CON but the don't. Fuck, you don't even have to be a scientist to know that! So believe its getting warmer cause they say it is? If your job depends on getting paid for what you say, you'll say anything to keep the checks coming. The planet will be here millions of years after were gone and in 100 yrs no one will remember you either.
"If the scientific community... really wants to..."
This is not a game where the scientists want to "win" and you could "lose". Scientists whose salaries you have paid for whose educations you helped fund are warning you of something very dangerous that they see occurring in this instant.
Rather than fiddling while Rome burns, playing conspiracy theories where modestly paid scientists are trying to hoodwink you into a false belief, use that primate brain of yours and consider your own future.
I raised the issue of directly measurable CO2 levels. Your response is that "the Sun did it"?
Yes, stop lying. You also have skin in this "game".
When Rome burned much carbon was released and that is bad. It would have been better, the AGW scientists claim, if Rome had been destroyed by a nuclear meltdown because that is much safer.
Top climate change scientists' letter to policy influencersQuantitative analyses show that the risks associated with the expanded use of nuclear energy are orders of magnitude smaller than the risks associated with fossil fuels.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/03/world/nuclear-energy-climate-change-scient...
answer me this- if those who claim the most to believe in this actually do believe in it for anything other than a money/control scheme, why don't they EVER follow their own advice? Obama is in charge of the largest polluter by far, the US military. He actually could issue an order that would massively cut carbon emissions by not attempting to police the enitre world, but he doesn't. If this is as dire a situation as you say, anything else should take a lower priority, right? let me know when that happens, and also let me know when gore and killary start flying commercial liek the rest of us, and maybe ill consider trading in my nice big Z71 tahoe for a prius.
I want a scientific analysis of why African Americans seem to have a hard time keeping up with the rest of the population.
I'm a racist cracker. I just can't seem to find that Haaaarvard study. I would like to see some real data mining. A twenty year study, with tests and other kinky stuff. Hey, let's talk about it. Let's study it. Let's analyze. Let's test. Let's prove or disprove something. Let's put this thing to rest. Let's measure the races. Let's give some real scientific ammo to quiet the bigots.
Think of Kennedy at his state of the Union, man on the moon speech;
B. Obama; " I believe, we should, by the end of the decade, use all scientific tools available, to prove all races of people are physically and genetically equal"
THEY use science when it advances THEIR view. All else is squashed.
Meh, some truths are more equal than others, look what happened to the Authors of "The Bell Curve"
Bullshit!
All the measured increase is because a lot of new concrete and asphalt around these thermometers in last 20-30 years.
Cities are generally 2-3c warmer than countryside.
Satellite atmospheric temperatures measurements show no increase.
All the rest is done by sun cycles and HAARPS climatic warfare
I'll say it again, one good volcano and your numbers are irrelevant. You can no more predict climate change with any respectable degree of accuracy than little Johnny with a wet finger.
Baa Baa (is that a bond rating?)
Further, the outcome is nominal over the course of a century or so.
- Ned
Little Johnny with a wet finger.
There's a good joke in there somewhere!
Hmmm. No response from novictim. Maybe it's lunch in his/her part if the world. I was looking forward to his reasoned take on these well-founded allegations (nothing proven in a court of law, that I'm aware of).
You have a lot of words & emotion there. Let me see if I can summarize your point:
You believe your cult is better than anyone else's and want all non-believers to convert to your cult.
I'm an atheist. I have no faith. I trust in data. CO2 is measurable.
Your war on science is pointless.
The goal of these lobbyists (i.e. paid liars) is simply to obfuscate. You see this regularly here on Zero Hedge, particularly on the issue of man-made global warming.
your war on science
Muaaahahahaha!
You mean like the globull warming "scientists" who won't even release their original data to allow others to rebuild, test, and criticize their theoric model, i.e. do what's called Scientific Method?
It logically follows that so-called climate "skeptics" are, by and large, a phenomenon of the American right-wing. The lower the educational level and the higher the cultural hostility towards science among the target audience, the greater the probability that the bamboozling of corporate lobbyists will take root.
The dynamic is a textbook example of how psychopaths tend to take the path of least resistance when manipulating people.
That's interesting... Of what 'wing' were those responsible for ~100M deaths in the shortest time-frame in human history (1917 - 1988), a member of...?
Are you a climate scientist, Larssen?
Because if not, from an epistemicological pov, you literally don't know what you're talking about - you're simply assuming that an ostensible scientific consensus, for which various models have been wrong for the past 20 years, can not be questioned on a scientific basis - only a political one.
Which makes your assessment a political one, per se - not a scientific one.
So why don't you just shut the fuck up about it?>
novictim, you can see my comments new and above.
Let's agree that CO2 has changed (increased) in its mixed/diluted within the atmosphere state:
- Ned
According to NASA the temperature on Mars has increased too but that's just because the Martians refuse to give up their SUV's and won't cut back on fossil fuels.
novictim, the issue of humans blamed for climate change turns out to be way more hyper-complicated than CO2.
While I agree that there is real science regarding CO2, and the greenhouse gas mechanisms in general, the roles of the combined Sun/Earth magnetic field changes tend to not be sufficiently included, especially since NOBODY fully understands those! (My current favourite authority is Suspicious0berservers.)
Meanwhile, it is typical for those who post comments on Zero Hedge to push their cynicism to the point of stupidity when it comes to any topics related to the environment. There is no doubt that civilization is currently controlled by governments ENFORCING FRAUDS by privately controlled banks, and that crazy corruption dominates the mass media presentation of the issues of climate change. However, inside that context, it is extremely difficult to discern what may well be the valid climate science, buried under all the bullshit.
While Zero Hedge's collective cynicism towards the banksters is well-founded, there tends to also be an overall trend towards gross over-generalizations regarding the degree to which climate science operates inside of those systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS, to conclude that all assertions about the environment are similarly and totally FRAUDULENT. In that context, it tends to be politically impossible to have any more balanced discussions of those issues ...
Did you create the data in which you place your trust, or is it the work of someone else you've never physically met? Memorisation of statistics isn't the same as first hand experience and knowledge.
So you start with innuendo and insults rather than bona fide facts and numbers.The rest is nothing but theory but you and your co-harts push that as factual.
And what does soylent green have to do with GW? I'll tell you what... As I said in my previous post you hate your species. Soylent Green was a movie about over population. Over population is in fact a problem but messing with the biosphere and killing all life is not the answer.
As for over population I recommend all GW advocates be the first volunteers. Show us by example just how serious you are!
I thought you meant our very own George Washington. My bad.
the problem is the loss of trees, not the production of carbon dioxide.
The last time carbon dioxide got this high, there were crocodiles swimming around in the Arctic Ocean. It takes awhile for the oceans to warm up, but the carbon dioxide will stay there for 1000 years if we stop using fossil fuels tomorrow.
Holy Shit! The sky is falling...
No, thats next month.
An engineer, a scientist, and an economist were marooned on a desert island with a can of beans. The engineer proposed using a lever to pry open the can, the scientist proposed heating it until the resulting pressure ruptured the can, and the economist said, "Assuming we have a can-opener, a system of fiat currency would allow us to determine how to distribute the beans most fairly."
@novictim: With cameras every three frickin' feet, I think we would have found magic orrr God by now. So far, the supernatural world does not exist...
;-D
Added: Don't downvote and slink off religerroids, take a beath and offer some proof!!!
So, you're agnostic.
Haa Haa Baa Baa,
No, I'm a scientist. If an idea cannot survive the rigors of the scientific method, then it remains just an idea. There is no shortage of human imgaination...
;-D
True dat! I'm imagining that in the next World, yer on yer own!
I lean toward being agnostic but I am 100% for a persons right to believe in what they want and their 1st amendment to express that belief and do not agree with the mob democracy we have today.
Now, with that said,,, can you PROVE beyond any doubt there is NO god?
You seem to be saying that because God has not been sighted is proof God does not exist.
Sorry,,, but this neither proves God does or does not exist on either side of the equation.
Now, with that said,,, can you PROVE beyond any doubt there is NO god?
You seem to be saying that because God has not been sighted is proof God does not exist.
Can you prove that pigs do not fly? One can claim that maybe pigs do fly because all pigs are not under surveillance at all times. However the proposition that pigs fly when we are not looking is no more ridiculous than the premise that the world is controlled by an invisible man who flys in the sky forever. That which defies all experience and rational analysis can be assumed not to exist.
I saw a pig fly just last week ;-)
When I start legislating and killing in the name of "no God", then you can place the burden of proof on me. As it stands right now, I know of no definitive proof of the existence of any supernatural event.
OBTW: The "Supernatural" TV series is awesome. Ten seasons and counting...
;-D
Now, with that said,,, can you PROVE beyond any doubt there is NO god?
You seem to be saying that because God has not been sighted is proof God does not exist.
No unicorns have been sighted either. That does not prove they don't exist. But it does reduce the odds that they do.
I'm sorry, it appears you forgot to insert your proof that God or a super-consciousness, conclusively, does not exist. Ones inability to show proof for God's existence is not proof that God does not exist.
What's with the GW & nihilist amateur hour?
So, we should assume that your :super-consciousness" exists until proven otherwise. Now, that makes a lot of sense.
Eternal life is a story for children.
;-D
We might imagine that nothingness is the default state before the big bang, except nothingness has an innate fault in it. That fault allows there to be a fluctuation in the void, and somethingness erupts from nothing.
Since a nothing which is originally faulty isn't really a nothing. By definition, a true nothing doesn't cause anything to exist and has no power or content to change its designation as the default.
What is there to cause change in a timeless nonexistent nothing?
And so if the default state of nature is nothing, it would always be so, not actually for a duration of time since there would not be a duration of time either.
"Don't let the cosmologists try to kid you on this one. They have not got a clue either-despite the fact that they are doing a pretty good job of convincing themselves and others that this is really not a problem.
'In the beginning,' they will say, 'there was nothing-no time, space, matter or energy. Then there was a quantum fluctuation from which ... .' Whoa! Stop right there. You see what I mean? First there is nothing, then there is something. And the cosmologists try to bridge the two with a quantum flutter, a tremor of uncertainty that sparks it all off. Then they are away and before you know it, they have pulled a hundred billion galaxies out of their quantum hats."
David Darling
Astronomer
How did God produce himself out of nothing? Perhaps you'll say that he always existed which begs the question, then why can't the universe itself have always existed?
The bigger question is how could it possibly matter?
excellent Billy.
theists demand, without explaining why, a *consciousness* to have produced matter.
But why only 1?
How do you know it wrote your holy book?
And what produced the consciousness - if nothing, why is it a consciousness can be uncreated but space-time itself must have been?
Epistemological agnosticism, with practical atheism, is the only sensible position.
Thanks for participating everybody, this was a test to determine just how secular ZHers are. Looks like it's about 50/50 to me.
For those of you that downvoted me on this topic, understand:
I am willing to die in defense of your right to believe what you will, and I am willing to kill in defense of my right to believe what I will.
Let us drink now and laugh as friends,
;-D
It's the basis for Theists and Atheists of all persuasions to bicker about two sides of the same coin for millenia, and if all were able to let it go, then there'd be a lot less to talk about.
305, not 405. And my plants love the stuff, you programmed clown.
"Prior to the Industrial Era, that began in 1750, the concentration of atmospheric CO2 fluctuated roughly between 180 ppm and 290 ppm for at least 2.1 Myr (see Section 5.2.2 and Hönisch et al., 2009 ; Lüthi et al., 2008 ; Petit et al., 1999) . "
Chapter 6.3.1 IPCC
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter06_FINAL.pdf
http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/
Science is being turned into a political issue because people vested in oil and fossil fuels can't admit they bet on the wrong horse.
CO2 is 405ppm today. Stop lying.
Below 150ppm CO2, all plant life on land dies. Quickly followed by animals. Trees evolved when CO2 was 1000+ ppm. Commercial growers add CO2 to their poly tunnels and glasshouses as plants respond and are far more productive, and more drought tolerant. All facts. CO2 is the gas of life, and has been in the thousands of ppm in the past with no runaway effects. NASA says the earh is greening, and peer reviewed papers say, taking all things into account, we are cropping 10% more due to the recent increase in CO2. The direct 'greenhouse' effects of CO2 are just about done, topped out, that's science.
Nice post.
If CO2 was actually a real threat, we already have the ability to deal with it and stop jawboning about it.
Here is Dr Allan Savory on using mob grazing to green the planet and bring the CO2 levels down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpTHi7O66pI
But as global warming is all about control of you and I, the last thing the globalists want is a working solution...
you're just as much of a brainwashed idiot as any other religious freak
try skepticism, it's good for you... if you have the intellectual and moral capacity to handle it
The reason we all know you are brainwashed and spouting crap is because there is no real science involved with any of this climate stuff. There are all sorts of theories and models and data manipulation that falls apart upon analysis that is being used for truth. Science requires a repeatable testable hypthothesis. It is that simple. If you don't have that you don't have science. Have all the unproven theories you want, but the moment they are used to control me at gunpoint you can shove off.
So dear victim, what is your recomended solution? I am all ears!
What % of warming does CO2 contribute ?
Start there, and the work out how to reduce water vapor in the atmosphere if you can.
Without killing all life on the planet that is.
One healthy volcano can render your numbers irrelevant.
Winnie, the sophist trick in their analysis that you are teasing out is that water vapour is, ... well ... vapour, not a "gas."
You'll never get them as "scientists" to do the separation of effects trick, would explode their minds.
- Ned
If true,,, why would lies and BS be necessary? And who in their right mind would trust governments and/or their stooge 'scientists' and agencies to fool with the biosphere? Does anyone believe that a species that build nuclear power plants on fault lines and sea coasts vulnerable to hurricanes, refuse to properly maintain said power plants in order to 'save fiat' for bonuses have the where with all to fool with the biosphere.
The entire Sahara desert was once fertile with abundance of life... The hypothesis is that it was caused by a shift in the orbit and tilt of the earth due to ice melt which sort of indicates a change in heating... Does anyone believe a tilt tax would have prevented it? I would imaging there was a change in atmospheric Carbon Gases too as carbon is an indicator of the phenomenon.
If these agencies are successful in reducing carbon to the levels they want the first thing to happen would be a dramatic reduction in plant life which then will kill off major numbers of animals and sea life. I believe this to be the real goal of GW idiots who despise their own species. The problem is their hatred will kill all life.
If in fact humans are the cause,,, nature will take care of them just as it has several species in the past.
+1 for the "tilt tax"-----lmao
Rejected:
So was Arrakis, then something happened.
- Ned
Shitloads of sand happened, -Hulk...
(the big bang architect wondered "where the fuck did all this sand come from and just what in the hell are we going to do with it and Voila, they put it the Sahara, which is Arabic for "where the fuck did all this sand come from? !!!)
Prior to the Industrial Era, that began in 1750, the concentration of atmospheric CO 2 fluctuated roughly between 180 ppm and 290 ppm for at least 2.1 Myr (see Section 5.2.2 and Hönisch et al., 2009 ; Lüthi et al., 2008 ; Petit et al., 1999) .
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter06_FINAL.pdf
http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/
268ppm to 405ppm , well the plant life must be loving it so the world will be fine but us humans are fucked, but who cares.
But there are infinite resources, so far as I know.
You are assuming that man is chained to this one tiny rock forever. I don't agree that the purpose of this vast universe is to provide pretty lights in the sky for myopic prison guards and their charges.
Let's not forget that it's a big rock, by the way, and a lot of it is virtually unused at all. Northern Canada, Siberia, Greenland, and Antarctica comprise a gigantic amount of un or underdeveloped landmass.
I'm also not sure if humanity has ever come across a natural resource that it has totally exhausted or not found a substitute for-- which, I think, provides a guide on the issue of infinite ingenuity.
268-445 ppm. That's parts per million. Both quantities are statistically insignificant in those percentages. And the rise is a net positive for growth anyhow, so what's the problem? If all of the frozen northlands are unlocked at the price of making Ecuador too hot to inhabit, that's too bad for the Ecuadoreans but they'll migrate-- as has happened throughout time.
And what is the alternative? Carefully managed serfdom on Master Satan's plantation?
Let us dare the heavens and reject the concept of being brainless peasantry for an overlord, however pleasant His Majesty promises to make the land with our noble toil under His benign guidance.
Sorry, I don't discuss lies with liars.
You're mentally ill. There is no climate change or global warming–anthropogenic or otherwise.
I'll believe in evolution when a beer can forms itself; something far more simpiler then just the noiving protein machines that zip and unzip DNA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VefaI0LrgE
Until then, I'm keeping a stead ye on an iron oxide deposit in my back yard for signs that it's turning back into a BBQ.
The world had this argument already and you scarmongering warmist Luddites lost because your own leaked emails got you caught red-handed using magical science data and systematically censoring real science.
The majorty of the world already thinks you're full of shit, and hateful, for wanting millions of poor people to die. Nobody had to hyperventilate and break a sweat to do it because you did it for us.
"Carboniferous Period" and "Second Law of Thermodynamics." Next time start there in your discussion, douche.
Who, pray tell, was measuring CO2 150 years ago? That was the end of the civil war. And no, the soil and ice testing is not that reliable (nor is carbon dating).
I know several people who work for EPA. They know global warming is pure crap. But they like their large salaries and benefits.
i think they use ice core samples somehow
Nature is replete with feedback loops to maintain homeostasis, it does not need Environmental-Keynesians to maintain it's balance.
Its a bitch how warming increases CO2. Just heat your garbage and you'll find it putting out CO2. Given that the CO2 in the air has been ten times higher in the past, and the world hasnt boiled, this current warm phase (of the 600yr cycle), which is producing a little more CO2 will not harm the planet. In fact it will help the planet since CO2 is plant food. 'Save the planet - produce CO2!' Im getting that on a T-shirt,
"Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it".
~George Costanza
Peon, know it's not a lie when the Fed says it. Or you are a terrorist. Worse yet, you may be a Zero Hedger
"Zero Hedge seems to post virtually around the clock, every day. .
The characters who infest their comment section are some of the worst vermin in trolldom"
Kunstler
Thank you Mr. Kunstler, I always appreciate being validated. History will not be kind to the purveyors of misery in the early 21st century. So, basically good sir, kindly Piss Off!!!
;-D
He's worse than the wall street shills. An enemy inside the gates.
I agree whole-heartedly with Mr. Kunstler. I, too, get tired of these government-paid stooges posting their nonsense here. How shall we rout them out?
mvsjcl:
... er ... there IS a theme that Kuntzler doesn't like but that we find kinda' entertaining. U could start there. We could also root them out (like weeds, but then we'd lose their CO2 cleansing effect). We could also route them out, show them the door as it were.
I like your idea best--rout their ideas and they leave.
The Flakdude hasn't been heard from for a while. Perhaps it is experiencing reincarnation.
- Ned
Is that a real quote? How awesome! We done momma proud!
Kunstler: All part of the zio plan. Sold the peak-oil snake oil to the gullible. What's he selling now? Time share nuke bunkers?