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The Economics Of Bernie Sanders
Submitted by William L Anderson via The Mises Institute,
As the political campaign of Hillary Clinton continues to run aground, Democrats are flocking to the campaign of Bernie Sanders, the self-described “socialist” US senator from Vermont, who has been a fixture in that state for more than three decades. Not unlike the presidential campaign of Ron Paul, Sanders is drawing large, enthusiastic crowds who are very receptive to his message of increased state control of the US economy.
Obviously, when a person running a campaign based upon socialist principles is drawing attention and big crowds, we might ask just what does Sanders mean by “socialist,” and what would he do if he were elected president of the United States? To better answer that question, I am taking a closer look at what we would call the “economics” of Bernie Sanders.
What Do We Mean by “Socialism”?
Before looking at Sanders’s platform, however, I believe it is important to note that when socialists speak of “victories” in the economy, they are not talking about actual results, but rather political achievements in the forms of laws being passed that mandate certain policies. Whether or not these policies actually achieve what socialists claim will be accomplished is another story altogether, but results are irrelevant to socialists.
This should surprise no one because, after all, socialism is based upon political control of the economy. True (or at least original) socialists believe that state agents via the “magic” of their authority should allocate all resources to where there is the greatest need for them. Political representatives, not surprisingly, determine what constitutes the greatest need. The state would take ownership of all factors of production and then wisely determine the needs and how production of goods would fulfill them.
Ludwig von Mises in 1920 in his short work, Socialism (three years later expanded into a book), exploded the socialist myth by pointing out that in a world of scarce resources, economies needed private ownership, prices, profits and losses to determine where resources should be directed. The early years of the “experiment” of the Soviet Union proved Mises correct, and socialists then sought to redefine what socialism actually meant.
In the USSR, and later in China and North Korea, the state took ownership of factors of production, but tried to create a parallel economy by using shadow prices and production functions via the mechanisms championed by Polish communist Oskar Lange, who admitted that Mises had pointed out serious flaws in the original plans of socialists. We also know how that “experiment” turned out, which is why there no longer is a USSR, China has abandoned much of the economics of Mao, and North Korea is a failed state where most people live in grinding poverty.
But people like Bernie Sanders, while maybe not rejecting the old socialism spiritually, nonetheless have embraced a “socialism” in which government takes ownership of large portions of what has been produced by private enterprise and transfers wealth from one group of people to another. A look at the Sanders website spells out his brand of “socialism” that he says is based upon what Nordic countries like Sweden, Denmark, and Norway have done, levying high taxes with governments using that funding for social programs like medical care and other public welfare initiatives.
Secondary Socialism
A number of people have pointed out that the Sanders “program” is not socialism per se, but rather is something based upon socializing the results of private enterprise, or what one might call secondary socialism. The Bernie Sanders regime would take control of some of the produce of private enterprise, as opposed to taking outright control of factors of production, which would remain in private hands. If this reminds one of the fascism of the 1930s, that is because Sanders is promoting a version of the governing models of Germany under Adolph Hitler and Italy under Benito Mussolini.
Of the two, Sanders certainly is closer to Mussolini. Like Sanders, Mussolini called himself a socialist and was a leader in the Italian Socialist Party. Like Sanders, Mussolini decried “profiteers” and the wealthy, and spoke out against political corruption. Like Sanders, Mussolini spoke of a larger “national purpose” and sought to harness nationalism as a political force. Like Sanders, Mussolini sought to impose more and more controls on Italian businesses in order to direct production in a way to satisfy political purposes. Like Sanders, Mussolini built political power by appealing to Italian voters by saying that other Italians were well-off because they had gained their wealth on the backs of the poor.
Having similar economic proposals to Hitler and Mussolini does not make Sanders either of those two men and it is important to emphasize that while Sanders regularly employs the powerful political tool of appealing to voter resentment of others, he is not advocating the kind of genocide that ultimately helped to characterize the fascism of Central Europe in the 1930s and 40s. Bernie Sanders is an economic nationalist, and economic nationalism was at the heart of European fascism, but we do not want to make unwarranted accusations against Sanders, either.
At the same time, I do not want to let Sanders off the hook. He promotes economic nationalism and has built his campaign upon resentment, the kind of which Henry Hazlitt wrote in 1966 in his famous, “Marxism in One Minute.” Hazlitt wrote:
The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in a single sentence: Hate the man who is better off than you are. Never under any circumstances admit that his success may be due to his own efforts, to the productive contribution he has made to the whole community. Always attribute his success to the exploitation, the cheating, the more or less open robbery of others. (Emphasis mine)
As one moves through the website for the Sanders campaign, there is plenty of resentment for others. First, there is the ubiquitous “One-Percent” that is the main focus of the typical Sanders stump speech:
This campaign is sending a message to the billionaire class: “you can’t have it all.” You can’t get huge tax breaks while children in this country go hungry. You can’t continue sending our jobs to China while millions are looking for work. You can’t hide your profits in the Cayman Islands and other tax havens, while there are massive unmet needs on every corner of this nation. Your greed has got to end. You cannot take advantage of all the benefits of America, if you refuse to accept your responsibilities as Americans.
While I would agree wholeheartedly that the US economy is in serious trouble, it is not because of the “greed” of billionaires. It is because the US government, through the Federal Reserve System, has created what David Stockman has called the “casino economy” that has substituted trading of sovereign debt and monetary manipulation for a real economy with interest rates that reflect actual economic fundamentals. Like the Bush and Clinton administrations before it, the Obama administration has promoted political entrepreneurship and demonized market entrepreneurship.
Sanders’s List of Recycled Twentieth-Century “Solutions”
Americans are not jobless because some people are not paying “their fair share” of taxes; they are jobless because the US government insists on directing resources from higher-valued uses to lower-valued uses, as determined by consumer choice. They are jobless because Washington insists on remaking the economy in its own image, and there is nothing in the entire Sanders campaign that would change any of the things that vex the US economy the most.
So, what does Sanders propose to “revitalize” the US economy? Here are some things listed on his website:
- Raise taxes on US corporations (ironically, corporate tax rates in the Nordic countries are substantially lower than current corporate taxes in the USA, something that has escaped Sanders’s notice);
- Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour;
- Expand the reach of labor unions and vastly expand their membership;
- Make it illegal for US corporations to manufacture goods abroad, and then sell those goods in the USA;
- Impose new taxes on financial transactions;
- Spend at least a trillion dollars on building and repairing roads, bridges, and utilities;
- Create a “youth jobs program” in which unemployed young people are given government-sponsored jobs (Sanders sees no connection between high minimum wages and youth unemployment);
- Enact “equity pay” that will “guarantee” that women are paid the same as men for comparable work;
- Break up banks and financial institutions;
- Enact a Canada-style single-payer healthcare system;
- Provide free tuition for all public colleges and universities;
- Expand Social Security benefits;
- Require businesses to provide 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave, at least 10 days of paid vacation a year, and seven days per year of paid guaranteed sick leave.
Notice that there is nothing in the Sanders platform that calls for “nationalization” of the means of production, nor does he propose to do away with the price system. In other words, Sanders’s vision of socialism is not what Mao or Trotsky or Lenin proposed, yet there is not one thing in the entire platform that would reverse the dangerous economic trends of the past decade.
Instead, Sanders proposes to direct huge amounts of resources in the direction of constructing something akin to a European welfare state. To put it another way, Sanders wishes to “turn back the clock” to create or promote social and economic structures that already have been undermined by the modern “sharing” economy.
If one reads Sanders’s platform from another perspective, it would be the New Deal. Indeed, there is nothing Sanders has written or said from the stump that would not be reminiscent of a New Deal rally (with the possible exception in appealing to black Americans, which was not part of the Democratic Party agenda in the 1930s, as well as Sanders’s appeal to furthering the Sexual Revolution). Bernie Sanders pushes an economic agenda that is frozen in time.
The problem, economically speaking, is that Bernie Sanders proposes nothing that actually would enable entrepreneurs to help bring about a true economic recovery. In Sanders’s world, entrepreneurs are parasites and employers are oppressors who seek to harm their employees, and wealth is defined by how much governments have in their treasuries.
If I could put the economics of Bernie Sanders into a nutshell, it would be this: Burden private enterprise with one directive after another, and then demonize it when it ultimately falls down under the awful weight of taxes, higher costs, and mandates. While many people believe that instituting the Sanders economic agenda would help turn the USA into another Sweden or Denmark, the more likely outcome would be turning this country into another Venezuela.
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Like it or hate it, at least the guy is honest about what he wants to do. The current politicians are raping and pillaging the people and are not honest enough to openly admit it.
Hitler was also very honest about what he wanted to do. The west simply did not believe he would actually be in a position to do those things.
Obama was pretty honest about it and's a commie, just like Bernie. Bernie at least admits it!
Exactly. Bernie openly admits hes a true socialist.
To knuckles. Bernie is a nationalist. Obama isn't.
Bernie is a retard
Period.
No, Bernie is not honest. He worked with Ron Paul to get a real audit of the Fed, then screwed Ron and America over and watered the bill down.
http://popularliberty.com/7697/ron-paul-flashback-bernie-sanders-watered...
Mericans are Broke Donkeys Bernie. I'm not voting for another Democrat. I can't afford it.
FREE EVERYTHING!!!
But seriously, Sanders and his supporters makes me sick. Any on this board? Please, tell me how much I earn belongs to you and why.
You have nothing anyway. You are really no differnet than a ghetto nigger. There are only two types of people: the super rich and the ghetto poor.
^ Nominated for most retarded post of the year.
Can't stump the Trump.
So Bernie want even bigger government. But I bet he can't answer this:
How big is "big enough"?
How intrusive is "too intrusive"?
Because the bigger government gets, the smaller my rights become. And right now my rights are feeling pretty effin' tiny.
A government is too intrusive when it thinks it can criminalize marijuana or legislate morality. Thank god for the only candidate from either major party who supports neither.
Marijuana is a minor issue in the discussion of government. It rules your life, Macchendra, and so because of this for you it is tantaumount. The question of legislating morality is much more complex. Learning to act ethically is much more fundamental to a human's inate nature. Not all cultures teach or require this. The level at which it is attained dictates how far a person can understand. Wisdom is not a skill. It's a gift.
Wisdom is not a skill. It's a gift.
since we're on about nominating most retarded lines...*facepalm* gifted, ffs? you dont get gifted that, you moron.
I think some people just find the idea of people dying on the streets as people with more money than they could spend in a year drive by to be a bit absurd.
Of course - you shouldn't be taxed at all because you've never benefited from government or taxes at all - right?
Tell me how any other candidate is better.
I'd love to see your annual charitable donations line.
It ain't charity or moral when it is mandated, under threat of mortal force.
Tell me one damn American city that people are dying in the streets from starvation? Or any other natural causes. I have traveled outside the US and have seen actual people dying on the street in a third world country. No US city even comes close to that situation. If people are in the streets homeless in the US it is by their own stupid decisions, no one elses fault. Now go fuck yourself.
Jonathan can't answer any of your questions seeing as he is an ignorant bleeding heart liberal who feels he should get to decide how much is enough. Jonathan, listen to NumNutt, Go Fuck Yourself, and take Bernie Sanders with you.
I once askwd a socialist who'd retired from NY State why the ghetto scum don't clean up their neighborhoods. Got a similar response, a typical "ypu're so stupid for asking such a question", one. This was in the summer of 2000, when supposedly the U.S. economy was on a tear (right before it wasn't).
This useful idiot then gave the standard, seemingly canned response, "But Falling Down, they're starving". What a fuckin' retard. Complete with the emotional manipulation any typical lefty uses to try to drag people into their miserable worlds.
All Liberals be like pre Soviet Era "useful idiots" that we move to Gulag AFTER Revolution, to continue be useful! Da?!
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
~"Tell me one damn American city that people are dying in the streets from starvation? Or any other natural causes."~
Patience, my friend. Patience. The dark horse this way rides. What was the old adage about for whom the bell tolls?
I agree with you...but only the part about all other candidates being full of shit too.
Here's how the new simplified Sanders-based IRS form will work:
Line1: Tell us your income
Line 2: Send it all in
And Obama wasnt honest either. He switched his position on gay marriage a total of four times! He kept talking about helping the little guy while running over the middle class. His lies on the economic condition of the US. The whole "most transparent administration in history" lie. My insurance premiums damn near doubled from ACA. The list doesnt end.
An obvious liar is still a liar. He was not 'honest' as you said - even if the smart people knew what he was going to do.
He also said he cared about all americans when all he cares about are blacks, liberal violent blacks.
They have faired far worse under his terms than those before him.
The violent ones are doing just fine.
you know damned well that the only things obama gives two shits about are his wookie and 2 wooklets
Bill Anderson:
From your neighbor (formerly) on Cinderella, just down the street from where you grew up (last saw you maybe ten years ago as you drove by):
Wonderfully said.
Keep it up.
Meanwhile, the state can kiss my ass.
Socialists like Sanders are fine with exacting violence by proxy but don't have the courage to do it themselves. A president Sanders wouldn't personally steal or kill you but he would have his thugs do it. That's a coward. To all these Sanders supporters I have a simple question: would you personally pull a gun on your neighbor and rob them to send your child to college? Better yet, would you actually use your weapon to take from you neighbor and give to another neighbor. Because that's precisely what you are advocating. You all represent the most vile of humanity. Again, anyone who would vote for Sanders is a coward.
"I have a simple question: would you personally pull a gun on your neighbor and rob them to send your child to college? Better yet, would you actually use your weapon to take from you neighbor and give to another neighbor. Because that's precisely what you are advocating. You all represent the most vile of humanity. "
AWESOME POST.
+1
"Anyone who would vote for Sanders is a coward."
Not necessarily a coward but certainly a sheep, who, regardless of who he votes votes for, perpetuates a system designed to enslave him.
What you don't realize it is that you are a coward, respective that your view is driven by personal egotism and greed alone which seems to have priority over anything else. A typical example for this would be the absurdity that happened some years or so back when Seattle proposed a tax to build new bicycle paths. Americans: "Why should I pay a tax for new bicycle paths when I don't even own a bike?" <--- this is your despicable, egotistic view, always afraid that someone would take a dollar from your pocket and that dollar would go to somewhere where it won't directly benefit you.
(In a civilized nation by the way people are actually "ok" paying taxes where they KNOW it will benefit anyone ultimately, be it for streets, education, unemployment or whatever...something where YOU guys are still years back behind...but then you don't have a problem with spending $400B on a new fighterjet, some digging out of imaginary WMDs or funding your prez's million dollar Hawaii vacation? Saying, you pay tax anyway and there you're awfully quiet. Why is that? Then, someone comes and has the 'audacity' to propose that tax should go to education or infrastructure and you freak out and compare it to being robbed at gunpoint? Amazing!)
lol, retarded idiots
And we all know how good socialism works. (sarc tag not needed)
Moar FSA!!!! Thats the ticket!
*well
the only dangerous socialism is........ corporate socialism or sometimes known as welfare which is what they pay politicians for
Bernie is a Communist,
with a capital C.
Troll, with a capital T
What does that matter? The Rebublicans and Democrats are thieves enslaving us.
This country will not learn anything until the food runs out at the store and the politbureau starts snatching people out of their government confiscated housing.
I dislike what all of our politicians have become and the sewer our country is moving through.
While the greedy capitalist will exploit a situation to the point of rioting, there is a chance that his greed may be satisfied at some point. The state, on the other hand, will always profess to look out for it's subjects' good and in turn never be satisfied - it will take everything from each and every "subject" and leave nothing but destitution and death behind with no hope for any future. Everything goes to the politbureau - they drink champaigne while we drink foul water.
Anyone who thinks not has never been around any of today's so-called "leaders". They are narcissists, worshipping themselves whilst seeing EVERY other person as a threat. YOUR suffering and failure brings them pleasure and gratification.
Socialists, keep loving your ideas because that is all they are. Once your favorite sociopath assumes all that power and starts raining down crap - The war should probably go to the person you "elected" first, but it probably will come to you before them.
Yes, the Dems and Socialists come right out and say they want to take your money, and they deliver. The Repubs claim to be on your side, but they aren't.
Two industries to surge under a sanders administration; rope makers and lamppost fabricators.
Hitlerjugend 2.0?
Hillary ...
Hillary is a much closer comparison to Hilter than Sanders. (Well, except for the honest part. That she ain't.)
Your comparison of a genuine American Hero to Hitler is so ignorant it hurts (literally). Bernie simply want's what almost everyone I see on this site screams for. A real market run on fundamentales insteas of manipulation, public relations, and lies. He is also the only politician I have ever heard who is refusing to go along with our economic elite AKA masters of both parties who are responsible for the destablization of the middle east, millions of middle eastern refugees flooding Europe. The creation of a world where 64 people have more weatlh than 3.5 billion, and the complete ruination of our country by allowing the top 1/10 of 1 percent of Americans to posses more wealth than 90 PERCENT. We currently have Corporate Socialism and Oligarchial rule. If Bernie wanting Americans to have free health care and to have regulations in place in the stock market makes him your enemy I suggest you reevaluate your understanding of how the world. The same bankers that are ruing are lives have used the word SOCIALISM to confuse and scare us into compliance. Seek truth above hate and it's hard to see what anyone on this site could have against BERNIE
jim
Your comparison of a genuine American Hero to Hitler is so ignorant it hurts (literally). Bernie simply want's what almost everyone I see on this site screams for. A real market run on fundamentales insteas of manipulation, public relations, and lies. He is also the only politician I have ever heard who is refusing to go along with our economic elite AKA masters of both parties who are responsible for the destablization of the middle east, millions of middle eastern refugees flooding Europe. The creation of a world where 64 people have more weatlh than 3.5 billion, and the complete ruination of our country by allowing the top 1/10 of 1 percent of Americans to posses more wealth than 90 PERCENT. We currently have Corporate Socialism and Oligarchial rule. If Bernie wanting Americans to have free health care and to have regulations in place in the stock market makes him your enemy I suggest you reevaluate your understanding of how the world. The same bankers that are ruing are lives have used the word SOCIALISM to confuse and scare us into compliance. Seek truth above hate and it's hard to see what anyone on this site could have against BERNIE
jim
I do agree with this. As much as I agree with the points of this article, I respect Bernie supporters to be conscious enough to not vote for Hillary.
Whats wrong with this one? "Make it illegal for US corporations to manufacture goods abroad, and then sell those goods in the USA;" How exactly would that be a bad thing?
“One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary.”=Ayn Rand”
I used to read the Mises institute stuff a few years back until I did plenty of research and realized most of what they post is nonsense. If they look at Bernies record as Mayor of Burlington they would realize that he is not anti entrepreneur or anti business. Under Sanders, Burlington became a magnet for attracting and incubating locally owned businesses, many of which expanded into large enterprises (Burton being one of them). Mentioning the new deal we should be talking about the great work the WPA did to set up the country for economic prosperity after WWII with vital infestructure/buildings/parks etc where many are still used to this day. Where was the Private sector when the country needed it the most at that time. Nowhere to be seen as it wouldn't benefit them enough to do the work.
It's called pandering for votes.
I'm an Adam Smith guy myself .. invisible hand, self interest, nature.
Saunders is a FDR retread. 17% unemployment and starving people.
Nothing WW III won't solve.
...for a couple decades.
So rinse and repeat. There's always WWIV. /sarc
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots
- Victor von Doom
OK, you don't get to claim to be an "Adam Smith guy" since you obviously haven't read him. The invisible hand is mentioned once in Wealth of Nations. Smith actually feared free movement of capital, but said home bias (a weak argument) would prevent investors from spending capital outside of of the country and "as if by an invisible hand, England will be spared from the mennace of free capital movement and imported goods." (paraphrased) Where do all the Mises people get this wrong idea of the invisible hand all the time. It's a tough read - I had to read each page twice for most of it to sink in - but at least I read it.
Smith and neoclassical economics don't jibe like Libertarians would like to think.
Interesting. Makes sense though. I haven't read him either but I always thought that it was odd you could get anything that resembles free market economics when starting from an objective theory of value (which, I've been told, is what Adam Smith assumed).
Oh, so "libertarians" are blind Adam Smith followers, ya think? Evidently you haven't read what Rothbard wrote about Adam Smith. Here are a few excerpts for your edification:
Adam Smith (1723-90) is a mystery in a puzzle wrapped in an enigma. The mystery is the enormous and unprecedented gap between Smith's exalted reputation and the reality of his dubious contribution to economic thought. [...] But what the German economists used to call, in a narrower connection, Das AdamSmith-Problem, is much more severe than that. For the problem is not simply that Smith was not the founder of economics. The problem is that he originated nothing that was true, and that whatever he originated was wrong; that, even in an age that had fewer citations or footnotes than our own, Adam Smith was a shameless plagiarist, acknowledging little or nothing and stealing large chunks, for example, from Cantillon. Far worse was Smith's complete failure to cite or acknowledge his beloved mentor Francis Hutcheson, from whom he derived most of his ideas as well as the organization of his economic and moral philosophy lectures. Smith indeed wrote in a private letter to the University of Glasgow of the 'never-to-be-forgotten Dr. Hutcheson', but apparently amnesia conveniently struck Adam Smith when it came time to writing the Wealth of Nations for the general public.
etc.
Get this through your head people. We can replace all politicians with open source software. This isn't 1865. We have the technology to replace the entire oligarchical primative political and financial systems. What are you Fucking stupid. Wake up.
And we can call this software HAL 9000!!! Brilliant!!
We could get rid of cash and put all financial transactions online for better security, too!
Who gets to write the program.
"Damn I didn't think of that"
Sure, it's possible, but who writes the software? You're just pushing the problem to another layer of abstraction. You will always need highly educated and qualified managers to make complicated decisions about the economy and governance in both the public and private sectors.
I believe what you mean is that you will always need under qualified sleeze with elevated titles making simple systems seem complex, or further complicating already needlessly complex systems with layers of derivative paper so that the average joe thinks something meaningful is coming his way when in fact he is just being sold a carnival con...
Hope that helped to clarify...
Please don't use 'qualified' or 'educated' and 'managers' in the same sentence again; the brightest men in the room merely point out the need to change rooms or inhabitants at every turn.
Get this through your head people. We can replace all politicians by going back to real money.
FIFY
This new ZH saddens and confuses me. This is a well written article that says pretty much all true things, yet it only gets a little less than 3 stars so far, so you guys are saying you don't like a critic of sanders economic policies, since you mostly voted the article down. But at the same time all you guys fucking love trump. How can you guys hate anything critical of Bernie sanders AND love trump at the same time?
Maybe because it isn't exactly accurate? Some of the differences are nuance, some are not.
The writer of the article claims that Sanders want to expand Social Security benefits. Actually what is proposed is knocking off the cap to keep SS solvent.
Breaking up the "too big to fail" banks sounds good to me.
Single payer/Medicare for All would probably be good for small business because it would take away the comparative advantage that large employer have re:bargaining power for health insurance contracts.
He wants to revise NAFTA et. al. to be less advantageous to offshoring. No problem with that one.
Yes, universal pre-school, free public college, and infrastructure spending are by definition spending increases, but at least they are forward looking vs. SS/debt payments.
*******
AS PRESIDENT, SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS WILL REDUCE INCOME AND WEALTH INEQUALITY BY:Blah, blah, blah....and petting zoos for all.
The lady scooping water out of a shit-infested ditch in Brazil really feels for us and our "problems". What a bunch of pussies we've become.
Here's an idea: Freedom with no guarantees
Just what do you think the purpose of society is? The word Society comes fromt he same root as Socialism. Its root is the Latin sociare, which means to combine or to share. In this country we have socailized defence, highway and airline transportation, law enforcement, court system, etc and etc. We all contribute and we all share in the benefits. If you want to try and go it alone, live by yourself on an island, and good luck! Let me leave you to ponder the greatest description of socialism ever written:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
Who gave the government the duty of minimizing wealth equality?
it isn't well written - it's one long whine.
I don't give a fuck what Mises said.
It's 2015
Be here now.
How many times have you suggested open source software as a cure for politics? Have you ever written anything more complicated than the typical "Hello World" program?
Heartbleed was a result of OpenSSL, a widely used open source cryptographic/communications module. There have been many others. Please give up your quest re open source. How about simply firing all politicians and not replacing them with anything or anyone?
And just who gets to "service" the software?
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
The Scandinavian economic model only works in a homogenous society.
Collectivists are always looking for an example of self-sacrifice in nature, but it only occurs where the individuals are genetic twins, eg a colony of bees behaving as one organism. This is why the closer humans are genetically, the easier it is to pull off socialism for a while.
I would be inclined to agree until I repeatedly visited Stockholm (my favorite place on Earth) and met an absurd amount of immigrants over what I would expect.
Since then I would amend this ideal that said homogenous society actually refers to a commonality of purpose, not race. In the US we have neither. That makes no sense, of course. Everyone wants safe streets, quality education, affordable and advanced healthcare, social mobility, and liberty. The deliberate and continued introduction of wedge politics obscures these common goals. Instead we fight over issues that, in the bigger picture, are actually pretty trivial.
If there were a true dedication to achieving these goals "politics" would equate to pragmatism. Try a method, does it work? No? Ok, let's try something else. Work now? Great! Keep doing that. We don't approach problems in this manner at all. Governance is merely a system, and systems can and should be constantly improved (to the point of even eliminating unnecessary systems). That is not the focus of nearly anyone currently in government at nearly every level. If it were, we'd see doctors in charge of healthcare, not lawyers. We'd see engineers in charge of infrastructure, not lawyers. We'd see scientists and philosophers in charge of education, not lawyers.
Until we permanently release the desire to feud over petty bullshit, our situation will remain the same.
My understanding is the preponderance of diversity you observed on the streets of Stockholm is a relatively recent phenomenon.
Give it another decade or so, and I'll wager Sweden's socialist system will either implode or undergo significant reform to the downside (i.e., less safety nets).
It already is falling apart. The "Nordic" model of national socialism didn't work any better than any other version of socialism.
We'd see free fishing poles and bait, not free fish and Tada sauce.
Sanders is right about one thing, the gutting of the jobs to cheap labor countries. Sweden, probably not so much.
it's worked incredibly well for decades, actually.
Where are you getting for information from?
Myriad articles out there. Here is one.
http://thescepticisle.com/2015/06/27/the-myth-of-the-scandinavian-social...
The US is a socialist dystopia RIGHT NOW. Moar socialism ain't going to help one person.
Well...it'd help Bernie.
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
«The Scandinavian economic model only works in a homogenous society.»
...and they are fucking that up at the speed of light right as we speak....
Fuck off. Garbage bullshit 'article'. Part of what makes ZH a herd of goats fucking a football while the monopolists steal you blind.
I bet the only thing that pisses you off more is the fact that taxes aren't yet high enough to take everything I earn.
mmmm...that's some good strawman.
How long ago did *you* read Atlas Shrugged?
Was it within the year??
Fuck you thief.
Worker ownership not state ownership.
How about owner ownership...as in, the ones who started the fucking business own it?
"They didn't start that".
+1000 Meat Hammer - spot on.
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
All the workers declare their ownership, and superiority....then nobody works. Are you 8?
Rubbish. Sanders voted against NAFTA, TARP, Iraq War, and the Patriot Act. That's gold in my book. All the theories and all the speeches and all of the interviews mean nothing: how did your candidate vote? Remember it's called "legislation" and votes are what make something "legal".
Love the Mises people but the way to cure the excess of the direction we've been heading is a sharp turn in the opposite direction. Then somebody else in 2020. And not Kanye West.
FUCKING RACIST!
First turd in the punch bowl ruined the party for everyone... You want to try another one?
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Vote Deez Nuts 2016 and put the CRACK! back into cracker!
Oh come on, talk about the actual *policies* that all the so-called "non-racist" candidates have voted for. Do you think Hilary's flattening of Libya was targeted at brown people? Do you think her vote for TARP screwed primarily black and Hispanic families, the ones who lost their homes? What about NAFTA? And don't try and tell me that Bernie is *more racist* than The Donald.
Don't forget that Bernie would support the changes that allow more than two parties to realistically participate in an election.
If, however, you want more Bush or more Clinton, then ignore the old fart; he's harmless.
Maybe Bernie should push a Constitutional amendment mandating the separation of political parties and the state. As long as the D/R duopoly can use and manipulate the states' electoral/voting apparatus for their own primaries, minor parties will have an incredibly difficult time gaining attention. That was made perfectly clear in 1992 when Perot had to use personal funds. By using the states' voting systems for their primaries, the two parties are able to rig the results in most instances to prevent real competition.
No doubt; they've been hard at work since Tammany Hall making damn sure those gerrymandered districts make any opposition as close to futile as possible and that electioneering is a game that only the 0.01% (or people who play golf with them) can play.
All good reasons for people not to dismiss Sanders. In addition, I've already told folks another reason why I support Sanders, and I stand by it.
This country is past the point of no return. No one will "save" us. No matter who gets elected, our money is going to be wasted. However, Sanders will blow a shit-ton of money here at home instead of blowing a shit-ton of money overseas. As such, it's quite likely he'd bring on the big reset just as fast as other candidates, probably even faster — but without getting us into a war with the rest of the world in the process.
Bern it all down, bitchez.
We don't have any money.
A sharp turn? You mean like the one Obama talked about when he was pandering for votes?
He is a communist not a socialist...
A distinction without a difference.
Oh please, Sanders represents status quo just as much as Hillary or Jeb. He's just good at using populist rage to his advantage, that's all. This is 2008 all over again, except this time the Democrats are cannibalizing each other instead.
He just said over the weekend he'll keep drone program in place. I wonder which defense contractor he's in bed with? We already know he's AIPAC's bitch. He's a fraud, and no more of a socialist than GW Bush was.
This whole article is a moot point.
Blood s - you are a liar
A sanders run GOV will be the embodiment of the one portrayed in Atlas Shrugged.
I will turn sanders back into a chicken peddling army officer!
Vote Deez Nuts 2016!
This government needs to be stripped TO THE BONE. Every "law" is an affront to freedom. Nothing can legislate morality or create common sense.
Someone on these pages said that the nation elects the governance it deserves.
Respect....yourself, others and the environment. Care.....for more than just yourself...as soon as you are able. Listen. Put forth effort. Learn every day. Better yourself.
These are the only laws we need to consider. The rest is just slavery.
This is too long to read. Give me Moar free shit and I'll vote for you!
I take issue with this:
I would ask Anderson this: Who owns the Fed? I don't begrudge somebody wealth unless they earned it dishonestly by purchasing the government and having that government make rules which crush any would be competitors, which is a very real component of our system today. Only the big boys can afford to follow the onerous regulations that they have often lobbied for and only the big boys can afford to get caught violating those regulations. If you have a government, it can be bought. If that government has power, it can be wielded by private interests for selfish reasons, which is exactly what we have today.
I would just like to know if Bernie will end all the states of emergency the US is currently in. Or Trump or anyone for that matter. Will whoever is elected end all the national emergencies that are currently declared by executive order? Can we get the new president to declare peace in the civil war?
Sanders is running for president, not king.
As to the President, what is at most issue is foreign policy where, by the way, government is able to waste - truly waste - about half of tax revenue.
As for socialism being a dirty word, it is a widely misunderstood term. The 'socialism' of the Denmark, for example, is hard to argue with. The average wage earner likely pays less in taxes than in the US with its Byzantine tax code - if not, it's not much more. But they get a ton for it... and the happiness index is much higher than the US.
But if you're the type who read Ayn Rand, and pretty much nothing else, but maintain that you've got it all figured out - hey, good for you. But again, Sanders isn't going to be able to do anything crazy - what this article talks about all requires Congressional action.
Sanders will likely veto alot - which you should support - and maybe, just maybe, not get the US into as many wars {by deception} that even Trump would.
Of course, all of this presupposes that one sees foreign policy [and the MIC/police state] as the most pressing cluster of issues. If you're most worried about Mexicans, Trump is simply an unknown quantity as to Russia and what is to be Greater Israel. The idea he can't be bought or controlled is absurd.
If Sanders gets elected, there will be MOAR WARS!
http://www.hngn.com/articles/124393/20150830/bernie-sanders-will-end-dro...
The only difference between he and someone like John McCain are style points. Come on mang...
But again, Sanders isn't going to be able to do anything crazy
Like we didn't say that about Obama?
The only "safe" president is one who believes completely in the constitution, the separation of powers, the limited role of government AND the limited role of the president. Instead we get a new round of ideological bullshit people who, by winning an election by a few percentage points of roughly half the citizens, sees it as a MANDATE to do any fucking thing they want. Further, to lever their powers, they work to create and invent crisis's of every nature that enables them to grab even more power.
No, Bernie does NOT qualify as a safe bet. A man who absolutely believes in the power of government and the morality of its claim to all power and all rights of the people.
another thing - this author acts like Wall Street had nothing to do with it - its all the Fed and presumably teachers unions.
for fuck's sake - Wall Street and the MIC - banking and weapons corporations have worked hand in hand with the Fed the former own.
Hard to take Mises folks seriously when their ideology and dogma make them unable to see large swaths of reality.
Hey dipshit..."Misses folks" aren't out singing praises for the fucked up world we live in. This is simply one article explaining how fucking clueless Sanders is.
I would love to see a candidate with a campaign slogan that simply said: FREEDOM. There was a time when freedom was all that people wanted.
Most Americans have no idea what freedom or liberty means. They are hopeless brainwashed statists and dont even know it.
Theres your public education system for you. And a nation full of sheep and retards.
Yes but not just Americans (try Canadians, Australians, etc). The conditioning is so good, a healthy slice of these populations would actually fear freedom and liberty if the option were presented to them.
Say what you want author. I guess it has escaped you that we have been living through SOCIALISM FOR THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY, BANKSTERS, THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THE INTELLIGENCE INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, THE MEGA CORPORATIONS, THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY, THE MONSANTOS OF THE WORLD, THE STATE OF ISRAEL, CORPORATE CEO'S LIFESTYLE COMFORT, AND WE HAVE TAKEN IT UP THE ASS FOR THE .01 - 1%.
I'll take the trade. It's not perfect, but I'll take it 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
Did I miss something? I didn't read where the author advocated for our current system.
You gotta spread a little bullshit to get the flowers - ZH has to run with Trump even though he's a known circus freak, demonize Sanders since he's always been consistent and would bite a few Wall Street hands and publish this Mises crap from time to time in order to pay for their remaining occasional valued insights.
Demonize him....wtf, look at some these proposals from above. Some of this is straight up bullshit (but not all of it, as in breaking up the banks).
So, what does Sanders propose to “revitalize” the US economy? Here are some things listed on his website:
Care to explain what's so bad with these ideas?
Your health 'care' system is a shambles which enriches insurance companies.
Your public infrastructure is decrepid.
You get the fewest holidays of any developed nation, with less productivity per hour than most of Western Europe.
Spoiled brat. How about this?
NOBODY FUCKING OWES YOU ANYTHING JUST BECAUSE YOU EXIST!!!!!!
Nobody owes you a smooth road to drive on.
Nobody owes you paid holidays.
Nobody owes you health care.
These are all privileges; mandating privileges and sending the bill to the people is called TYRANNY! For fuck's sake!
There is freedom and then there is everything else.
But, but, but, what about my "rights"?
Drives me nuts when people say they have a right to anything that requires someone else's labor. Like healthcare....where is your right to healthcare if all of the doctors and nurses suddenly quit?
Rights exist independent of anyone else's labor. They exist in nature. Stupid fucks. I need a drink.
Sure would like to hear your plan. Back to the pioneer days? Is your favorite book "Back to Basics"? Fact is, people pay taxes, and expect good roads and bridges in return. So, are you for no gevernment at all, or just no taxes?
Actually you're not too fair off. I wouldn't sarcastically call it pioneer days but there was a time when you did carry your own weight. Taxes were less while a new nation's new infrastructure was being developed. How did they do it, no one was getting paid for being unproductive, while corruption existed it was peewee league compared to today's special interest major leaguers and blue/white criminals were actually treated like the scum of society that they were. Integrity was much higher both to oneself and to your community, and why, there was really no other choice...
We suffer badly from truly not understanding the blood, sweat and tears that formed the once greatest civilization and country this world has ever and probably will ever see.
+1
"Rights exist independent of anyone else's labor. They exist in nature. "
Beautifully stated, Meat Hammer.
Concise and unambiguous...
+1
Hey I'll labour on their behalf Meat Hammer. Labour to manufacture the high velocity rounds that should pass through their collective craniums - only way to deal with socialists.
Don't say I don't give.
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
Gosh I missed this bullet point:
The Sander's Youth. Crisply pressed uniforms, drilling in the square, keeping their parent's energy use in check, reporting "anti-social" behaviour to their superiors...
What could go wrong?
bernie is a kind and gentle old man.
You have to be a special kind of retarded to think that Bernie Sanders gives a rip about the average American, and that he is going to "go after" Wall Street to solve the middle class's problems.
he has been saying this type of thing since he was a member of the House of Representatives before becoming a Senator. You have entirely missed what he's all about. Well done.
Barack Insane Ogabe has done the same.
That worked out well, right? Drone on, drone.
But the promises are so...wonderful.
Yet another article from the Mises Institute demonstrating how superficial their views tend to be.
The central feature of the EXISTING political economy is that governments ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks. Any genuine solutions to those problems are things which are politically impossible to engage in even relatively rational public debates about, much less actually ever implement. The vicious spirals of the funding of the political processes have already become metaphorically like social black holes, while we have already passed beyond the event horizons of the profits from frauds being able to be reinvested in more frauds.
There is NO good language which is generally understood to use to publicly discuss how and why governments are the biggest forms of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangsters, which currently happens to manifest through governments ENFORCING FRAUDS by privately controlled banks. Moreover, there is barely any deeper understanding of how and why money is necessary measurement backed by murder, as the most abstract form of private property being based on backing up claims with coercions.
Given those basic FACTS, the only realistic resolutions to the real problems would require better organized crime, to operate better death controls, in order to back up better debt controls. Of course, that is politically impossible. Rather, we are actually headed towards the established systems of debt slavery backed by wars based upon deceits driving the generation of numbers which become increasing debt insanities, which will provoke death insanities.
PERHAPS, out of those death insanities, new death control system may emerge. However, on deeper levels I agreed with the article above that Sanders is spouting bullshit, which may be relatively popular, because many people want to continue to believe in bullshit ... What actually exists now is due to the previous triumphs of organized crime being able to dominate the political processes, to the point where about 99% of what the USA is doing is based upon integrated systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, the most important manifestation of which is that the political economy is based upon fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, that require the vast majority of people to continue to believe in bullshit, and behave like incompetent political idiots, that deliberately ignore the principle of the conservation of energy as much as possible, while also deliberately misunderstanding the concept of entropy in the most absurdly backward ways possible.
Inside that overall context, the article above was a silly, shallow criticism of Bernie Sander's silly, shallow economic policies. Meanwhile, there is only one energy, and therefore, only one political system, namely based upon the principles and methods of organized crime, because the death controls are necessarily central to everything else, BUT, those developed to become most socially successful when done in the most deceitful and treacherous ways. That primarily manifests as how governments ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks. However, that also includes that there is almost nothing but that core of organized crime, surrounded by controlled opposition groups, that stay within the same overall frame of reference, whereby bullshit almost totally dominates all public debates (such as a Mises style critique of Sanders.)
Well, that's what socialists like Weekend-at-BerniesSanders do, overburden everybody and make false promises (lies). Apparently it's not really a socialist lie, "If you really believe it" and are able to say it with a straight face.
Factoid:
Bernie Sanders, the admitted socialist, was only the 4th most socialist senator according to his voting record prior to 2008. Who were the other three ahead of him??
A: #1 Barack Obama #2 Ted Kennedy (RIH) #3 Joe Biden #4 Bernie Sanders
Source?
Benchwarmer for Hilda.
Not a serious candidate.
Aaah demonization...
As if you are not living in socialism in the ole USofA
Socialism for the rich.
Bill for the rest.
But freeeedooom!!!!
This site stinks. Goodbye.