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Putin Confirms Scope Of Russian Military Role In Syria
Over the past 48 hours or so, we’ve seen what certainly appears to be visual confirmation of a non-negligible Russian military presence in Syria. For anyone coming to the story late, overt Russian involvement would seem to suggest that the geopolitical “main event” (so to speak), may be closer than anyone imagined.
Russia’s excuse for being in Syria is the same as everyone else’s: they’re there, ostensibly, to fight ISIS. As we mentioned yesterday, and as we’ve detailed exhaustively as it relates to Turkey, the fact that ISIS has become a kind of catch-all, go-to excuse for legitimizing whatever one feels like doing is a dangerous precedent and Turkey’s crackdown on the Kurds proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Islamic State will serve as a smokescreen for more than just the preservation/ouster (depending on which side you’re on) of Bashar al-Assad.
Having said all of that, going into the weekend Russia had yet to confirm publicly that it had commenced military operations in Syria despite the fact that it’s the next closest thing to common knowledge that at the very least, the Kremlin has provided logistical support and technical assistance for a period that probably spans two or more years.
But on Friday, Vladimir Putin looks to have confirmed the scope of Russia’s military role, even if he stopped short of admitting that Russian troops are engaged in combat. Here’s The Telegraph:
Russia is providing “serious” training and logistical support to the Syrian army, Vladimir Putin has said, in the first public confirmation of the depth of Russia’s involvement in Syria's civil war.
And while the highlighted passage there is actually impossible to prove given that the term "depth" is subjective, it certainly does appear that Putin is now willing to concede that support for Assad goes far beyond "political". Here's AFP as well:
Asked whether Russia could take part in operations against IS, Putin said: "We are looking at various options but so far what you are talking about is not on the agenda."
"To say we're ready to do this today -- so far it's premature to talk about this. But we are already giving Syria quite serious help with equipment and training soldiers, with our weapons," RIA Novosti state news agency quoted Putin as saying.
And back to The Telegraph briefly:
Speculation is growing that Russia has significantly expanded its involvement in recent months, including with deliveries of advanced weaponry, a raft of spare parts for existing machines, and the deployment of increasing numbers of military advisers and instructors.
Last week Syrian state television released images showing an advanced Russian-built armoured personnel carrier, the BTR-82a, in combat. Videos have also appeared in which troops engaged in combat appear to shout instructions to one another in Russian.
Of course whether or not the troops Russia has on the ground were sent to Syria with explicit orders to join the fighting is largely irrelevant when the bullets start flying. As Pavel Felgenhaeur, an independent commentator on Russian military affairs told The Telegraph, “it was quite conceivable that members of the advisory mission occasionally found themselves in combat or had even suffered casualties.”
So in other words, they’re at war, and even as Putin is now willing to admit, with a two year (at least) lag, that Russian boots are indeed on the ground, it may be a while before he admits to their role in direct combat and if Ukraine is any guide, he might never acknowledge the extent of Russia's involvement. But make no mistake, the Russian presence has nothing to do with the “threat” ISIS poses to the world and everything to do with ensuring that Assad’s forces can fight on - at least for now.
The absurd thing about the whole effort is that ISIS itself is now just cannon fodder both for Russia and for the US led coalition flying missions from Incirlik that Turkey has suggested may soon include Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Jordan. Even more ridiculous is the fact that since none of this has anything to do with eradicating ISIS in the first place, the bombing of ISIS targets by the US, Turkey, and Russia doesn’t really serve much of a purpose at all.
That is, everyone’s just biding time to see how far the other side is willing to go in support of their vision for Syria's political future - a political future which, as we noted yesterday, almost certainly will not be decided at the ballot box, that is unless it's after US Marines have stormed Damascus at which point the US will benevolently allow whatever civilians are still alive in Syria to choose between two puppet leaders vetted and supported by Washington.
And lest anyone should forget what this is all about...
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About time somebody did something serious against these ISIL cockroaches.
A very risky strategy for Putin: Russia might get drawn into a lengthy, bloody and uncivilized civil war in order to clean up the mess that the US, EU and their vassal Middle Eastern 'allies' created.
Russia plays it safe, they just have presence around their own assets. And in the air they cover against anglozion attacks. Hope they roll out the good airdefense large scale. All alongside the strong diplomatic path.
Israel is at deaths door in a few ways and either goes full on Samson or Dies. Fill your home oil tank now
Everyone just relax........Nuland's got this covered and Kerry's goin for his second silver star
Putin to the CIA, Check and mate in 3 moves.
Why doesn't Qatar just pipe their gas via Iraq? Or Egypt?
Dicks.
The only way to win a war on exhaustion is to have a limitless supply of man and equipment. As of today, US and its Arab allies have displayed a serious advantage over Syria, Iran, Russia in Syria and Iraq.
Otherwise, one must move and act decisively and swift to win by stopping an endless hemorrhage (like the US defeat in Vietnam, Afghanistan). Similar to the Putin actions in Crimea.
Let us see whether Russia and Iran are up to the game!
But, but… Putin didn’t get permission from the UN.
Unlike the USA, when a country asks Russia for help, the Ruskies move the troops in but never leave.
Let us see whether Russia and Iran are up to the game!
We already know Obama isn't, unless it's basketball.
Excuse me. Michelle won’t let Barry have any butter on his popcorn. Please change that out for an extra large, no salt, no butter. Thank you.
"Unlike the USA, when a country asks Russia for help, the Ruskies move the troops in but never leave."
Really?
Afghanistan
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Belarus
Moldova
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Soviets were not Ruskies. Bolsheviks & Soviets were representatives of an International "Communist" World Order . The majority of them were Zionists/Jews. They were responsible for a genocide of Native Russian/Slave population.
Look at their leaders:
Jews Bolsheviks did to Russians the same Americans have done to Native Americans. Consequently, a demise of Russia as a state is inevitable!
The Bolsheviks were brought to power by central bankers.
https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik...
the ussr certainly recognized israel quickly in '48 but they armed israel's enemies for at least thirty years.
proving jews were instrumental in the leadership of something in the white world is hardly a rarity. not so many directly involved in nazism, but then nazis hated and killed jews. some jews, zionists particularly, are ok with the principles and techniques of nazism and fascism generally, to wit, israel.
Russia/USSR and Israel certainly didn't get along very well.
It was the Dutch embassy that represented Israel after the USSR cut off diplomatic relations, and the Dutch embassy played a vital role in enabling Russian Jews to emigrate to Israel: http://www.jta.org/1972/05/15/archive/dutch-embassy-in-moscow-encounters...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Netherlands_relations
Putin is a notorious homosexual. He takes it up the ass while dresses like Marie Antoinette. That's why he always tries to appear tough. He's just another sodomite.
I'll tell you this: Russians know how to fight.
If Obama was indeed concerned about the welfare of this country, he would send his little Travon gangsta youts over to Syria for a little urban awakening vs. Bashar al-Assad fighters.
Maybe stream it live on BET.
THAT I would pay to see! Talk about blacklivesmatter.
You have strategic vision, sir.
And America has left
Japan?
Korea?
Germany?
Iraq?
Ahghanistan?
To finish off your WWII list you will need
England
Iceland
Deleted because Anybody beat me to it.
The Baltic states never asked for Russian = Soviet help, but were annexed without protest from West. When they struggled for their independence after the Soviet´s collapse, it was the same hush hush, not rock the boat. Keep on talking about a moral supremacy your ignorant myopic egoists.
Boy one thing about any St Pooty thread, it sure brings out his slobbering sycophantic groupies hoping to get an autographed picture from him...lol.
So anyways, for the record, St Pooty was with the KGB during the Soviet Union so he cannot escape his past, it is a part of him, what makes him, who he is. Consequently I'm not clear on the whole delineation of St Pooty "The Russian Bear-Man" vs communist-bolshevik-jew nationalistic theater of the absurd who cannot really be Russian...he worked for them, with zeal, didn't he?
The whole of the matter of St Pooty (and Russian governance in particular) can best be understood by an understanding of the concept of the Russian Vory, which on its face isn't a bad concept once you realize government itself (ANY GOVERNMENT) is at best nothing more than the largest criminal gang on the block.
Except it hides under the cloak of legality & legitimacy to hide "its crimes", which makes it "a good gang".
Or sumpin ;-)
Fuck you or sumpin. OK Rabbi?
Because it really truly has nothing to do with pipelines, and a lot to do with destroying or at least weakending the Iran-Syria-Hezbollah axis so the Israel can invade and occupy southern Lebanon with impunity. But even that does not compare in importance to creating war and instability in order to justify the institutional imperatives of the MIC.
Shh! Don't let Qatar find this out!
It's Israel's own choosing that they find themselves at death's door. If Israel could refrain itself from lusting after the land wealth of other countries, Israel would not suffer justifiably being despised and hated by other countries
S-300's
Why neoconservatives are never right.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/21/neoconservatives-so-wrong-for-so-lon...
Checkmate, bitchez..
Bashar ain’t going anywhere, Barry.
Checkmate what? He fell right into the only trap that can undue Russia. A long and costly war, away from home, and for no real gain. Russia can not afford this, they're pretty well broke. And I don't know if anyone noticed but those oil and gas deals ZH was touting as the end of the petro dollar fell through. China snubbed Russia and refuses to pay for all the infrastructure needed to build and move said oil and gas.
It's over, Putin is playing a losing hand.
Yeah, he kept losing for the last 3 years as everybody under the sun could see. I suppose in that parallel universe of yours the Americans keep winning, too...
Um, let’s see...
I’m not a fanatic Russophile, just a realist.
According to what I read, Russia is way more solvent than the US.
Heck, take away the (soon to be ending) “exorbitant privilege” and the US is totally insolvent.
The fact that Assad would go for a snap election and the US will have nothing to do with that tells you all you need to know about the American regime’s disposition towards democracy and self-determination (Ukraine is a big hint, too).
It is my belief that Assad, for all of his shortcomings, has the majority of Syria on his side and the US is trying to destroy that by creating chaos there.
Syria, though far from perfect, was an intact and stable secular state, just like Libya was before the US and NATO "liberated" it and its 400 tons of gold.
Thanks to the Obama regime Syria is being turned into a hell hole like Libya, and nobody really “wins” there, particularly the Syrians, the American people, the European people and the rest of the ordinary people of the world.. the 99% so to speak.
I’m just glad the refugee fallout from Libya and Syria is the EU technocrat’s problem.
Say sayonara to any semblance of many European county's individual cultures.
Choomster Barry should not engage in a game of chess with Vlad.
Putin will cut through the Choomster's smoke and he has more rational and reserved diplomacy in his little toenail than Obama and his entire State Department.
If you want to defeat Russia, just give them Obamacare, Medicare Part D, > 175,000 pages of Federal Regulations, Obama’s executive orders, the US DOD’s procurement and accounting offices, the NSA and militarized local police across the nation... then they will be right back to the era of Stalin and on their way out.
double post deleted.
It's the US and Obama that's taken the bait and have been sucked into the Syrian conflict far enough so that Russia can force a humiliating back-off by the US&Co. The US have no business attacking Syria, a sovereign country, without even a declaration of war, whereas Russia is an Ally of Syria and have every right to defend them along with Iran who is also an ally, even China have financial interests in syria, Now that China and Russia have fucked-over the US economy and are in the process of issuing the last rights to the USD$, this means that any war that the US does now can't be done on the credit card and as the US is totally broke to the tune of 18+Trill, it will be a humiliating climbdown for Obarry.
They thought it would be "cool" to make a 3rd episode after their success in Lybia and the ho-hum sequel in Egypt (Arab Spring and all that crap...) That's the problem with the Americans, they don't know when to stop. Have you noticed how every succesful American movie eventually devolves into a shitty series ( 2nd, 3rd, even 4th sequels down the road) ? Apparently it's the same with foreign policy. A sure sign of a terrible lack of imagination... also known as stupidity.
seriously, you have heard about the prepper guys, now is exactly the time for you to weekend thinking what is smart to do.
The new war will do a quick expansion. Look at all the millions who thought ww2 would be localized and never hit them or change their world.
"If Israel could refrain itself from lusting after the land wealth of other countries, Israel would not suffer justifiably being despised and hated by other countries"
Me thinks Israel/Jews will always be despised, regardless, and the blame of all manner of humanity's ills and misfortunes. Amazingly, a mere 0.2% of the world population can be perceived as the cause of so much angst in the world.
Read your history, they are magic, have mind powers and can fly but only at night after eating matzo balls.. Oh noes a knock on my door...
No what's amazing is that "a mere 0.2% of the world population" have hijacked US, UK, and NATO foreign policy.
And in fact it's less than 0.2%, because it's not the Jews, but Zionists who are the problem.
and how much of the worlds wealth and political power does that 0.2% hold I wonder? Certainly not 0.2%.
you need professional help...your brain...it's not working
The amount of water flowing into Israel limits population growth there.
I said it last week. Russia has a base, close to the fighting, with boots. It's not logistics support but it is logistically placed so if they are attacked, they can respond in a meaningful way.
Remins me of my Intro to International Affairs course. The US troops in Berlin during the Cold War weren't there for fighting, but to "die nobly so the US could justify going into war."
WW3 bitchez
Willing to bet that ISIS will not be waving/riding around with any new Russian weapons.
Yep. if the Ruskies ID them with the smallest weapon remotely resembling anything Russian they're gone. If they shoot at the Ruskies with a slingshot they're gone. If they take any Ruskies prisoner their strongholds will be swiftly circled and fumigated and they will be so gone.
Anyone know if Russia has any decent MANPADs that Syria can use for air defense? I know they are short distance. Russia and Iran need to step it up in helping Syria defend it's air space better.
Also a few Su25 Frogfoot's for Syria might help.
A great airplane for shooting down domestic airliners.
Ha! I'm surprised more people here don't realise that this was a dig at Kiev, not Russia
I got it right away..
And if the US was serious about fighting ISIS we would have sent a whole bunch of A-10 Warthogs over there, not just a few F-16’s.
(But then, we are not serious at all about taking ISIS out... maybe the Russians are.)
The ISIS airforce is primarily used against Assad, or to 'redirect' the more independent members of ISIS.
I knew it.
Some may also be remembering Korean Airlines Flight 007.
Ukraine was really fucked up for shooting down that Malaysian Airlines MH17, I agree. Russia was not responsible. That thing had cannon holes in the cockpit from the photos which I saw.
America has knocked out an Iran Airlines Passenger Jet too.
War is totally wrong. This is just a sad escalation. War is there so that the Petroleum Industries of the World may profit off of the deaths of millions.
As I remember, that Iranian jet was full of dead battlefield casulaties from the Iran-Iraq war, was probably flown by wire (or a suicide pilot), had it's transponder exchanged for a Mig transponder and on course exactly for the US fleet.
False flags, more than one can play the game.
I remember reading reports of the strange appearance of the bodies. I never heard of the transponder angle. Thanks.
S400 systems are coming, if not already there.
NATO would be very pleased to see S400's in Syria. What better way to test them, than to test them...
They'll have the Russians testing their ass soon enough. No need for S-400 either. S-300 is more than enough to clean the skies from anything the Americans, the Turks, or the Israeli are able to fly over there...
Why bother with the S-300 anymore? S400 accommodates 3 different missiles: 40N6, 48N6, 9M96?
40N6 for the Americans, 48N6 for Turks, and 9M96 for Israel.
Raptor meets 40N6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIF7qUv0VI
valkyrieQueensrf50lb favors the S-400.
... if Russia has any decent MANPADs...
Plenty of fish to choose from: SA-7, SA-14, SA-18, SA-16, SA-24. All of them successfully tested in battle. Here's the latest one which the Russians are keeping so far for themselves (no exports, no NATO code yet): 9K333 Verba
http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-built-one-of-the-most-alarming-anti-aircraft-systems-in-history--and-wont-say-who-its-sending-it-to-2015-6
Anyone think that the Saudi Arabian king's visit yesterday had anything to do with the Russian massive incursion into Syria? The paid off American press reports the trip has to deal mainly with Obama's Iran plan. I would like to able to see the satellite conference between Obama (who thinks he is king, not president), the Saudi king and Bibi (real Judenrat material) as they discuss false flag attacks against Russia. What a bunch of NWO scum they are.
The Russian's have paid many visits to Saudi Arabia in the past year. Putin has Saudi's neutrality on the issue. There is some tit for Tat that is not apparent to us. Saudi's don't really care about Iran other than as an issue for leverage, public support mainly.
So are you blind to the Sunni-Shitte Muslim conflict that is Centuries old?
So you are blind to the fact that Saudi has invaded Yemen and Iran has sided with the Shia in Yemen?
So you are blind to the fact that Saudis are opposed the idea of a Nuclear Iran?
You have no clue of the massive Civil War, not drawn by the imaginary lines of International Borders, but, by the ideologies of who Muslims consider infidels.
When Roman Catholics went to war it was not necessarily against Muslims in the Dark Ages and Middle Ages. At times it was overt war against Protestant factions of Christians.
Christians were, and are not, innocent of this either.
Sanctioned Murder in the Name of God...There is NOTHING NEW under the Sun...NOTHING NEW...at all.
I like how you think. You've got them pegged exactly. Thumbs up.
Putin is equally responsible for the mess by supporting the despotic Syrian regime all these years.
So any nation that fights terrorists that want to take over the govt is a despotic regime?
Assad has British wife and is a doctor.
He is not a despot.
Neither was Ghaddaffi or Saddam
Before the USA destroyed Iraq and Libya they were some of the most modern secular nations in the Middle east.
dont forget what Iran was like before the Shah all of a sudden turned "eveil and had to be removed"
? fact is Shah was despot....installed and evil from the beginning..
Well we couldn't have a bunch of Commies ruining our buddies oil business now, could we?
That's what friends are for.
The Shah was trying to pull his country free of the Islamic force pulling Iran into the centuries-old pit. He was replaced by monsters who have enriched themselves and made serious advances in the art of tormenting people. They assassinated Iranians in Europe, hang homosexuals from cranes, and now will have nukes to support their deranged goals.
Naive people want to replace "not too bad" with "heavenly," but invariably get "stone age."
'Naive people want to replace "not too bad" with "heavenly," but invariably get "stone age."'
I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, no one told that to the people who install the Shah.
Before the revolution, Iran was well on its way to being the Canada of the Middle East. Then the Shah crossed the line -- during an interview with David Frost he challenged the status quo. There was some information that he also refused to allow the NWO to use Iran in the narcotics trade. National control and narcotics routes are critical to the NWO, so non cooperation will be met with complete and widespread destruction.
However the NWO very quickly lost control of their created chaos, and it morphed into something else entirely. Ordo ab chao but not quite the ordo they wanted, in fact just the opposite.
The NWO is losing control of their centuries-old handbook. They have not lost control of power, as seen by the huge and sudden population shifts from the ME countries they destroyed into Europe with a goal of destroying it as well. The Europeans have figured out that the EU was just another NWO scam all along and want out. The NWO will burn them all to the ground first.
There is something to this "normalcy bias" people seem to have.
Nation-states attack, kill and destroy with impunity but individual people cannot, this is considered to be "normal". A judges or politicians son or daughter is caught DUI and let off with a slap on the wrist, you or I lose our drivers licenses and are pilloried in the public square as being something akin to a mass murderer, again, that is normal. A governor or prime minister is killed and the entire world freaks out, a truck full of soldiers is blown to pieces...completely normal.
Why are you not entertained?! ;-)
The pre-revolutionary footage with David Frost interviewing the Shah has probably been destroyed.
Who the heck is negging this? Ace is 100% CORRECT.
The Shah did indeed try--with considerable success--to advance his country. The Iranians had a tradition of Monarchy for 5,000 years, so I don't understand the animosity about it as a tradition.
Shah's mistake was allowing Western advisors to introduce Western values into Iran too quickly, many of which were diametrically opposed to social and family cultural values. Unbeknownst to Shah was the hidden malefactors who ruin the social fabric of every stable society so as to more easily rule it. They never did have the best interests of the Iranian people in mind.
During the huge pre-revolutionary festivities at Persepolis celebrating 5,000 years of Iranian history, many nations participated by sending cultural representatives. One stupid proto-Miley group staged a troupe of naked dancers, which was deeply offensive to the population. Don't remember which nation sent those losers but it was probably us.
I don't like people using USA when talking about invading or wars. It's JSJ because they are the ones who have hijacked our foreign affairs and every war is because of them. Jewnited States of Jewmerica
I agree. I am sick of seeing us kowtow to the Saudi-Israeli secret alliance. Be nice if we had our own ME policy for once.
Haha, don't kid yourself. America was a mess from the beginning, despite its deeply romanticised condition. If Americans do not take responsibility for this condition and its deepening then they are either complicit with the rulers of this disaster or the next.
Perhaps you do not get the very Zionist outlook of the American Republic. It was founded upon the idea of a thousand Holy Cities. Manifest Destiny is a combined nationalism of Christianity and Judaism, fetishizing their victimisation at the hands of the king and destroying the goyim natives. This allowed them to construct emperors for each Holy City and mend the invisible clothes. The only real difference is environment, due to isolation Americans thought they had arrived in the Holy City. But they have overbuilt, they money changing has left a wasteland and there is no frontier left, the only constancy is runaway change and maintaining the myth of the utopian beginning. This is the core of the false dichotomy of your two-part politics. The conservatives are the Orthodox Jews who want slow change, maintenance of the old ideology, and the liberals are the youth sent off to change the goyim, to make it apparent that one may as well live parallel with environmental progression.
In reality there are coalitions in charge, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Judaism may be The Father, but Christianity is The Son, and the cultural practises of their works combined is The Holy Spirit. It is not so simple as to topple a few tyrants from a single group and achieve freedom. That is an ascetic stupidity which was founded by none other than the Jews themselves. American capitalism is precisely the same ideology as that of the Exodus against the goyim: the free movement of capital will destabilise the culture of those who do not yet believe in it, and all that is good will be contained in the Holy City whereby the tyrant will be eternally exiled. With a thousand Holy Cities America represents Judaism in feedback runaway, just with a Christian twist.
You don't see this? Your nation is founded on the idea that each man is a money changer, and yet you have come to the conclusion that the money changers must be thrown out so that we can all become money changers. It is an ouroboros repeating a fiction every bit as absurd as what the Fed is currently doing. No wonder the civil war is about to repeat itself a thousand times over.
Certainly this is a pill too bitter for most to even consider, but it is the truth of it. Your land, our land, was build on a fiction, a Big Lie. Everyone here proclaims capitalism as the saviour, but it is dead, we killed it. It was dead at the beginning. And the outcome we are facing is due to capitalist ideology primarily, none other. You can't blame the Jews, socialism, or fascism. That is scapegoating. Capitalist ideology, and specifically its American breed is the primary fault, these other ideologies can only be at fault insofar as capitalist ideology has used their methods to advance itself, which brings us back to the core of capitalist ideology: it is a nihilism of money changers, an eschatological belief in nothing but fantasies. It is a cruel irony for believers to face, but that is the truth of it, your muse has brought us to world's end. Now what will you do?
Good luck to you. I would suggest reading some Weber and de Tocqueville to understand how this situation developed. Only when you realise how truly deep the foundation cracks run will you realise that replastering will not solve the crises.
Holy shit! What an eye opener.
How about a 'for Dummies' version of that for us C students?
What, toothpicks ?
Could you clarify that "mend the invisible clothes" part for me?
GA is describing something that is completely missed by most Americans through the ages, and in particular now with the actual mass idiocy of morons unable to execute critical thought.
A very common motif to English speaking emigrants was the radical identification with the Old Testament, specifically the Captivity-Exodus-Promised Land narrative. This applies entirely in the cases of Northern Ireland, South Africa, and these good old United States.
Keep in mind that generally the settlers were Non-conformist fanatics who disliked the 'popery' of the Church of England. Also, starting with Henry VIII, the royals became particularly involved in affairs that previously were not their exclusive domain (the Church, economic minutia, etc.)
In the wake of the so-called Reformation, England was new creature and newly minted religious sects completed for maximum iconoclasm. A common thread was a severe rejection of the material world (essentially a redux of the Manicheans) and radical belief in predestination.
Old style Presbyterians (Scotland) and Puritan sects (England) believed that there is nothing one can do to affect his eternal destination, heaven or hell.
Let that sink in for a moment and you can imagine the psychological nuttiness that can come out of that (and certainly did with the hysterical mania in New England surrounding the witch hunters, prohibition of Christmas, laws against married couples kissing, etc.)
So anyway, these settlers of course identified as the 'chosen' rather than the eternal 'reprobate' (not a surprise there!) Well, you can imagine how then it was easy work for say Cromwell to ally with the Jews against Catholics (and the Anglicans.) But you can also see how the entire USA project, from the start, was an imitation of the accounts of the Jews led by Moses, Joshua, the Judges, King David, etc.
Part of the narrative to the Captivity-Exodus-Promised Land archetype is the Canaanites. In Biblical times, these were pretty disgusting people into things like infanticide, Baal worship, and so on. The ‘Canaanites’ to the Puritans and Pilgrims were the American Indians- and really any foreigner including the French and Spanish communities.
We know the rest of the story. Only in our case, we got to play it out twice: once when physically leaving England/Scotland and then all over again when breaking off of England in the War for Independence and pursuing Manifest Destiny.
From the complete subversion of the Constitution under Lincoln to the contrivance of a war against Spain to the maniacal demand for ‘unconditional’ surrenders of Japan and Germany (and subsequent literal mass rape of the latter), our fair country has always laid claim to a superiority. We are a tad more subtle now compared to speeches that used to be given that were pretty direct in this Calvinistic ‘chosen people’ notion (though not by much.)
Of course today, virtually no one, but no one actually subscribes to old school Calvinism. Even the Presbyterians (both USA and America) completely repudiated John Calvin’s doctrines around the start of the 20th Century.
But what does remain is a decayed Calvinism in the form of a sort of national civic cult: America is to spread ‘freedom and democracy’ to the world! Notice that American liberals and American conservatives generally have only agreement on this. Notice also the fevered pitch that leftists are sounding with regard to those who reject homosexualism, gender queer, and other aberrant lifestyles.
Indeed, indeed! The germ of Calvin’s bizarre paradigm lives on well, given new life by Gen Y atheists who will literally rat you out in a millisecond to alphabet soup agencies if they find you not conforming to the new orthodoxy.
Notice also how we have pronounced mentalities of black and white, good (us) vs. evil (them), excessive patriotism juxtaposed against a void of authentic culture, a megaporn culture at once with prudishness and a fetish for taking scandal at the tiniest human weaknesses (e.g., we don’t have red light districts because we are so much better- indeed we get topless bars all over the place. How childish.)
We don’t like accepting the fact that it is not so clear as ‘good people’ and ‘bad people’, there is nuance to things, and situations can be a complex hodge-podge of good and bad will. There is rarely a vividly clear good-bad dichotomy that we crave (and usually when there is something close, we have recently found ourselves on the wrong end of it.)
In sum, the national psyche has always been dominated by this Captivity-Exodus-Promised Land archetype which itself sprung out of radical predestination theology. It is thus no wonder that a particular ethno-religious constituency has fit in so well with the American experience. Indeed, things are changing quickly in the world and it does seem that they have either the Samson Plan or a rather humiliating fade from the scene.
An interesting take. The "good old America" locution is juvenile and inconsistent with your thoughtful post.
It's common to think the Puritan means prude whereas it is more accurate to understand it as meaning "stickler," that is, sticklers over whst the Bible did or did not say. With the advent of greater literacy and printed Bibles in their own language, many people not unreasonably asked why certain church practices were followed when they were not prescribed in the Bible. The Anglicans, who preferred more of a syncretic approach of new and old (Romanism) thought why not keep certain practices if they are not prohibited by scripture. Still, Luther's objection had been to time honored practices of Rome that were, shall we say, suspiciously man made and Puritan objections to "popery" cannot be dismissed as stupid fanaticism.
There was much stupid iconoclasm but I don't see it as having been job no. one of every Puritan. In fact, stupid is what Puritans were most definitely not and their sermons were delivered by very learned men who drew large crowds consistently. Cambridge was chocka with Puritan divines and they often were far more learned than Anglican priests who were, I think, the remnants of the Catholic clergy.
The Pilgrims were the real radicals, favoring complete rejection of the CoE and nearly killing themselves with an experiment with communism. The Puritans were not Separatists but thought to try to work with the Anglicans. The opportunity to emigrate to New England was reasonably seen as an opportunity to do it their way. Winthrop's bold innovations in democratic practice were quite remarkable. People who didn't have a testimony were encouraged to move on and, as for any no kissing between spouses rule, well, I defer to you on this point but will note that these were the people who came up with "bundling," for their young people and who entertained wives in church who rose to complain that their husbands were failing to do a lot more than kiss them.
Puritans had no lock on fear of witches. King James I was the author of a book on witchcraft and thought that a difficult sea voyage had been caused by witches. Salem's excess were undoubtedly due to relative isolation and unique circumstances and there was even one man who tried to inject sanity by arguing against testimony by female hysterics. I may be reasoning backwards from modern feminists who specialize in accusations not unlike those of their earlier sisters.
The idea that Puritans looked on Indians and foreigners as Canaanites is absurd. They had friendly dealings with one tribe immediately who were happy to ally with them against their enemies. The many delicious curry recipes we enjoy today we learned from those Pequot guys.
Calvinism is a pretty nutty innovation and how it could have appealed to anyone is beyond me. England was awash with religious nuttiness at that time so in that regard the Puritans weren't anything special. See Wikipedia on the Adamites, a sect I'd join today in a heartbeat!
W. Wilson seems like the quintessential humorless jerk that you seem to have in mind as the end product of the New England Puritans. The PC, environment, equality leftist zealots of our day seem more like what you object to but rather than there being something vaguely "Puritan" they seem merely to be human beings who exhibit that quintessential human trait of taking a tiny useful idea and distorting it, massaging it, and expanding it to fill the sky with utter bullshit.
The Jews have the notion of healing the world and there are a lot of people who arrived elsewhere than Massachusetts. Perhaps these people have had some input into our political "thinking." I'd be happy for SOME God damn thinking these days other than bring every foreigner on the planet to Dearborn, Much., and "responsibility to protect." Now THAT's some seriously sick stuff. Give me Winthrop any day, all day.
>>>>>The many delicious curry recipes we enjoy today we learned from those Pequot guys.<<<<<
I think you got your Indians confused....or perhaps the spices.
Ehh, Saddam Hussien and Ghaddafi were despots. But apparently, despots aren't the worst thing for the Middle East.
Like him or not, but Libya had one of the highest standards of living in all of Africa under Gaddafi.
And you are correct, the US and Israel have made things far worse for most people in MENA, not Russia.
Highest standard of living in Europe - Norway.
Highest standard of living in Asia - Japan.
Highest standard of living in Africa - Libya.
said the UN: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index_(2009)
Norway & Japan are under bankster control. Libya was a successful independent country owing no debts to the bankster overlords. That's why it had to be destroyed. Now Libya is finally in debt.
They might be under bankster control, however Japan is on a debt induced suicide watch, and Norway is starting to look wonky too (because the oil price and its main source of revenue is going down, while the number of 3rd world freeloaders is going up)...
It's really not relevant if they were or weren't despots. It's their f-ing country, and if the citizens of those countries wanted a different government, it should be their decision and actions to change it, not Globo-Cop.
That's a novel idea.
What's become of me? I hated the Soviets but now I cheer the Russians on when they make fools out of the boys and girls at Pee-wee's Foggy Bottom Playhouse and the commie freak we have for a president.
Next I'll be saying "Go Trump! Kick their fucking ass!"
Ehh, Saddam Hussien and Ghaddafi were despots. But apparently, despots aren't the worst thing for the Middle East.
Sigh. You know times are bad when you're forced to work out which mass-murderer is OK, and which one is definitely a bit over the top.
I think most people will agree Saddam was a monster. Poison gas on Kurdish civilians, anyone? Ghaddafi? Yes, a despot, but not in the same league.
The thing is - if you'd plucked Ghaddafi out of Libya - a relatively small and poor country - and put him in charge of Iraq, a large and (potentially) rich country, and put Saddam into Libya, how would they have behaved? The same? Any different? Look how the US behaved in WWII. It seems to me that once the State decides it will unleash the dogs of war, the main limitation on the damage they do is purely down to the firepower they have at their disposal, rather than the morality of their leaders.
In fact, let's say you're Bashar Assad. Your dad was another monster but you studied opthalmology. You go back home and there's a Western-resourced revolution. Would you roll over and let the Islamic zealots take over? All thse Sykes-Picot fabricated states are just tragedies waiting to happen. And they were designed that way - to keep their "leaders" dependent on foreign powers to stay in power themselves.
Nah. Wasn't any more devious than "This looks like a good place to draw a line. Work for you guys?"
Clearly.
The US regime has worked out so very well in the past decades. So many countries and peoples are the representative shining examples of what a good ole dose of supersonic democracy can bring.
That evil Putin must be stopped from wanting to bring that goodchange to the oppressed people of Syria.
Putin is evil because he opposes goodness.
So "goodness" = "abandonment of all moral principles in favor of the NWO?"
It was sarcasm, kind sir.
Hey Zero, you can wap "Putin" with "Washington" and swap "Syrian" with "Saudi" or "Israeli" and what do you have? The truth, thats what.
Really? Even the NYT is "starting" to tell the truth as to the source of all in the middle east:
NYT-09-05-15: "But if Russia targets rebel groups that are opposed to Mr. Assad, they might be striking some of the moderate Syrian fighters who have been trained by the C.I.A. and the Pentagon."
ALL ACTION BEGETS REACTION
you might want to enter a re-education camp
"moderate Syrian fighters"... LOL - seems to me the NYSlimes still has plenty of aversion to telling the truth and hasn't given up the propaganda model yet.
MSF just means a fighter who hasn't had an opportunity to make it to the nearest ISIS unit. A million a head is it now?
Maybe Google can come up with an ear probe that detects brains not short circuited by decades of Islamic doctrinal filth. Death to queers, razors to the clitorises, tents for the ladies, death to heretics, and death to buggered sheep! Oh, and don't pee in the direction of Atlantis but do piss on the infidel Constitution!
Is it your IQ that's stuck on zero?
Stuck on Zero, your handle is very appropriate.
He really is below Zero and well into negatives.
...
You mean like Ukraine?
Putin waited until now. My guess, he waited until there was a chance of success. Given world economic conditions, he can go in now with minimal pain. He has shown restraint in these matters previously.
If something's going to happen in Syria or Ukraine it's going to happen when Putin's abroad or otherwise occupied, and Putin's scheduled to speak at the UN in about 10 days.
You know, these days there are devices that allow one to communicate over long distance which means that leader's physical location is not that important.
Ged oudda here!
I could be wrong but ...
I think Putin is sending to Syria one Chechen contingent.
Are Muslims who speak Russian, try to learn more about them.
If I'm right, ISIS is kindergarten's play.
You can not imagine how much that one can be a cruel war much less the ability of the Chechens, "politically correct" does not exist in their dictionary.
I told here that Putin and the Russian-speaking (can be Slavic or other ethnicity) are subtle as a pachyderm.
hehe.
As foreign support for Assad goes, the Iranians will do the fighting while the Russians and the Chinese will bring in the toys... Main job for the Russians will be to dissuade "accidental" flights from Turkey AF or Israel AFs...
It would turn the tide of battle if Russia were to dissuade the no fly zones imposed on Syrian territory.
We're in charge of no-fly zones.
Everybody knows that
No, the Russians won't be pinned down by their own leadership's absurdly restrictive Rules Of Engagement leaving them as sacrificial lambs dedicated to building up the body count for the Democrat Party.
The number one, top, sacredest rule of engagement is never ever walk around with bullets in your gun.
I think you made a valid point. Caution and personal and independent analysis are prudent roadmap destinations in these troubling, uncertain times. Not quite sure why the many down arrows.
Very smart move by Mr.Putin!! He did what the USA did not want him to do which is fight for Assad.. The Genius in Putin mind set is," hay where fighting ISIS with the USA" Lol... the elites got kicked in the balls right now.. Hay look at Vladmir I could play the same game too... ISIS stands for IsraeliSecretIntelligentService or/and CIA operations..
What like Ukraine. America fuck yeah !!!
So in Syria you got the Syrian army, free rebels, Al queda, ISIS, the US, Turkey, 2 factions of Kurds, the Russians....how the hell would you know who to shoot at? What could possibly go wrong?
Uai!
As in all wars!
If you speak Russian, does not lead shot.
If you speak any language or farts, is dead !.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
Easy. The country is called SYRIA. You shoot anyone not wearing that uniform who has a weapon.
Sort of a Chinese fire drill.
Can you say that anymore?
It's called on the job training.
True that.
The Russians haven't had a chance to train against pseudomuslum jihadist scum since Chechnya.
You'd think Obama would welcome them -- to help clean up ISIS.
depends on what the meaning of IS is
That's GOOD.
It just makes good geopolitical sense for the Russans to support the enemies of their enemy. No doubt Putin has given up all hope that the evil axis of the USSA and Israel can be appeased.
As an aside, Russian ties to Syria go as far back as when Israel became a nation. It about then when the Syrian leadership gave up on the idea of friendly relations with the west.
Actually since the creation of the State of Israel, it became clear that Israel would never be satisfied with the land given them. Their agenda has been expansion using terrorist false flag attacks to grab more land.
Netanyahu already has bragged that soon Lebanon would be Israel.
Syria saw the light long ago.
http://www.balfourproject.org/
I won't have any hope of things changing for the better in the region until I hear the words, "Palestinian Holocaust" become commonly used.
That's funny!
I can't say I lie awake at night thinking about any Palestinian Holocaust. Those pricks took over India by killing 80,000,000 infidels. They conquered the Christian Mediterranean world and ground the losers' faces in the ground for sport, when they weren't selling them into slavery.
The Crusades and Israel are but the teeny tooniest of a scintillae of payback.
I believe the former Christian majority in Lebanon would rather be part of Israel rather than be ruled by the Jihadist invaders that now hold sway.
The Palestinian Arabs who were slaughtered by the rampaging Zionists back in 1948 weren't all Muslim, you know. And the slo-mo ethnic cleansing doesn't spare Arab Christians, either.
The only way Israel wants to take over more Arab land, is if the Arabs extant there are either driven out or have no voting rights in Israel's national elections. Otherwise the Zionists may lose their electoral majority and "poof" there goes their "democratic" Jewish state.
we didn't kill enough of them back then...
Israel can be a Jewish ethno state or it can be a democracy, but it can't be both.
Typical Zino false dichotomy. The Lebanese Christians have other options.
That's astonishing. You actually got four red arrows on that one. I guess being ruled by jihadis monsters is what one should aspire to.
The Russians are not at war.
They are Orthodox Christians.
Who is at war are Sunni and Shiite Muslims and some economic interests.
It makes no sense to send trained troops to defend the mother russia.
Common that kill.
Assad is an Alawite Christian.
ZH need a glossary to understand what is at stake in the region (and not just oil, water too), ethnic groups and Western interests.
The implications in the future will be enormous.
Do not forget Ukraine.
If things stink, the prophecies of Nostradamus will be on the agenda.
Israel disappears with the coming of the eastern red.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
It's true that Alawites celebrate Christmas, and are a pretty tolerant bunch, but when push comes to shove, Alawites are Muslims (even though the most radical Sunnis say they are not).
In other words, "Alawite Christian" is a real big stretch.
No Russian troops or aircraft so Russia won't get involved. But I bet they do send in "Volunteers" as Red China did during the Korean war.
China is about to send 300,000 of them to the Middle East.
I don't believe that China has sufficient equipment to project that kind of power that far from its borders.
What, a pair of chopsticks and everything except "Wolf's heart and Dog's lungs" is on the menu, so just need ammo.
If the Army, Navy and Air Force China largarem their rifles and are walking distance to Europe, Europe will not have to feed so many people.
Everyone dies of hunger.
It was theorized in the 1960s, you who are new and do not read do not know ...
China is playing with the same thing as a mess of worms.
Playing with the Russians is the same thing to mess with a porcupine.
The son of a bitch in the management does not know the shit is doing to Nuland's and quetais.
hehe.
Good chance to test out the new hardware and expend much of the old hardware.
http://gifsimg.blogspot.com/2015/07/putin-dance.html
Re the last chart showing the " islamic pipeline " - is that an existing pipeline, a proposal, or someone's idea of what someone may want to see happen?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-04/putin-assad-would-accept-snap-e...
Likely the pipeline war is waged for Israeli gaz transportation rather than Qatari gaz.
http://www.ogj.com/articles/2015/09/noble-still-negotiating-with-israeli...
Zion has no where to sell their gaz.