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Crossing Borders With Gold And Silver Coins - A Glimpse Of Things To Come
Submitted by Doug Casey via InternationalMan.com,
It’s well-known that you have to make a declaration if you physically transport $10,000 or more in cash or monetary instruments in or out of the US, or almost any other country; governments collude on these things, often informally.
Gold has always been in something of a twilight zone in that regard. It’s no longer officially considered money. So it’s usually regarded as just a commodity, like copper, lead, or zinc, for these purposes. The one-ounce Canadian Maple Leaf and US Eagle both say they’re worth $50 of currency.
But I’ve recently had some disturbing experiences crossing borders with coins. Of course, crossing any national border is potentially disturbing at any time. You might find yourself interrogated, strip searched, or detained for any reason or no reason. But I suspect what happened to me in three of the last four borders I crossed could be a straw in the wind.
I’ve gradually accumulated about a dozen one-ounce silver rounds in my briefcase, some souvenirs issued by mining companies, plus others from Canada, Australia, China, and the US. But when I left Chile a couple of months ago, the person monitoring the X-ray machine stopped me and insisted I take them out and show them to her. This had never happened before, but I wrote it off to chance. Then, when I was leaving Argentina a few weeks later, the same thing happened. What was really unusual was that the inspector looked at them, took them back to his supervisor, and then asked if I had any gold coins. I didn’t, he smiled, and I went on.
What really got my attention was a few weeks later when I was leaving Mauritania, one of the world’s more backward countries. Here, I was also questioned about the silver coins. A supervisor was again called over and asked me whether I had any gold coins. Clearly, something was up.
I haven’t seen any official statements about the movement of gold coins, but it seems probable that governments are spreading word to their minions. After all, $10,000 in $100 bills is a stack about an inch high; it’s hard to hide, and clearly a lot of money. But even at currently depressed prices, $10,000 is only nine Maple Leafs, a much smaller volume. Additionally, the coins are immune to currency-sniffing dogs, are much less likely to be counterfeit, and don’t have serial numbers. And if they’re set aside for a few years, they won’t be damaged by water, fire, insects, currency inflation, or the complete replacement of a currency. Gold coins are in many ways an excellent way to subvert capital controls. And I think they’ll become much more popular in that role.
That’s because, all over the world, paper cash is disappearing. People are moving away from paper cash. That’s partially because there are fewer and fewer bank branches where you can cash a check, and ATM machines are costly to use. And partially because everybody has a cell phone and they’re starting to use them for even trivial purchases, like a cup of coffee. Governments are encouraging this because if all purchases, sales, and payments are made electronically, they’ll know exactly what you’re doing with your money.
From their point of view, the elimination of cash will have several major benefits: It decreases the opportunity for tax evasion, it decreases the possibilities of “money laundering,” it eliminates the expense of printing currency, it obviates counterfeiting, and it gives the state instant access to all of any individual’s cash. From an individual’s point of view, however, the safety and freedom offered by a stack of paper cash will disappear.
Much of the safety and freedom offered by foreign banks and brokerage accounts has already disappeared. Few people seem aware of the fact that not so long ago, there was no limit to the amount of cash you could transfer in or out of the US without reporting. Or that you didn’t have to report the existence of offshore bank or brokerage accounts (although you did have to report taxable income from them).
That changed in 1970, first with the passage of USC 3156, and then the perversely-named Bank Secrecy Act. The 1986 Tax Reform Act made it highly inconvenient, and largely uneconomic, to invest in passive foreign investment companies (PFICs). In 2010, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) required every foreign financial institution in the world to report info on US persons to the US government. The enormous regulatory burdens and potential penalties it imposes now make it very hard to find a foreign institution that will even open an account for an American.
These are all de facto capital controls. In the US, banks are starting to notify customers that they’re not responsible for the storage of cash, or gold, in their safe deposit boxes. When I was in New Zealand a couple of months ago, I was taken aback to see that the suburban branch of a major bank was closing down its substantial safe deposit box department.
When I inquired why, the manager only knew that it was a new policy and if I wanted a box, I’d have to go to the main branch. This seems to be another worldwide trend. If there isn’t a safe place to store paper cash or gold, then people will be less likely to possess them.
But it’s getting worse. Over the last couple of years, there have been efforts to pass a bill that would allow the US to deny issuance, or cancel, the passport of anyone who is simply accused of owing $50,000 or more in taxes. I expect this will become law at some point. After all, it clearly states on your passport that it’s government property and it must be turned in on request. People are actually the most valuable form of capital. Emigration has always been nearly impossible from authoritarian regimes.
So what’s next? I expect, as the subtle war on both cash and the transfer of capital across borders gains momentum, that gold coins are going to become the next focus of attention. So I suggest you act now to beat the last minute rush.
Have a meaningful percentage of your net worth in gold coins.
Have a significant number of those coins stored outside the country of your citizenship.
Concentrate your future purchases in small coins that are indistinguishable from loose change. Things like British sovereigns (.23 oz of gold) or their continental equivalents (French, Swiss, German, Danish, Russian, etc., pieces of generally .18 oz of gold). Not only is gold cheap now, but all of these are currently at only a few percent above melt. Happily, they have collectible value, and they resemble common pocket change to an X-ray machine.
Also, do this: Put a bunch of silver Eagles in your brief case the next time you travel internationally and let us know if your experience resembles our own.
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Bitcoin mining does not use video chips , it uses highly specialised ASIC chips actually.
Just more proof you are talking out of your arse.
ASIC's do one thing and one thing only. So what else does this BTC ASIC do besides mine? Nothing else. Prove me wrong.
I actually like the concept of BTC too.
The innovation is one step back in the process. The tools to build better ASICS advance in order to build better BTC mining ASICs and those tools are of general application.
I'm still searching for terrestrial intelligence.
How much energy do you think it takes to mine gold/silver, or produce paper money or run all the bank buildings, employees, heating, cooling, building, destruction, lighting, security.
Do the math and you'll find out, Bitcoin is quite efficient.
Also, it would be even more efficient if all the mining was done using the sun or renewable energy.
Also, mining during cold water is actually even more efficient because that wasted energy, helps to heat your house and means your furnace doesn't turn on as often.
I looked at mining about 3 years ago. I was going to buy a subsidized solar panel for the house and fill the garage with miners. Never worked itself out, even with the solar subsidies here in California, which nearly makes it free. Not going to happen on solar no matter what the trolls are shilling.
It certainly won't happen on terrestrial solar where 9/10 of the power gets lost in the atmosphere. Within a year of the first orbital chip foundry's construction, I'm guessing that BTC miners will start popping up.
Go SpaceX
Those computers could have been used to front run thousands of muppets.
Oops!
One Bitcoin group now controls 51% of total mining power, threatening entire currency’s safety
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184427-one-bitcoin-group-now-controls...
Keep going like this, You'll be at A++++
Actually, I was going to say that finally, I read a gold article I can agree with. Gold coins will make an excellent way to transfer wealth privately.
The Canadians don't seem to care much about gold and silver coins, coming or going; if you are transporting .999 metal it is explicitly exempt from duty/tax, and if it is in the form of Maple Leafs, it not reportable on entry. If you are detected carrying AGEs or Krugerrands into Canada, expect to be hit with duty equivalent to VAT. One Canadian ZHer has said that he had .999 Buffaloes seized by Canada Border Services, which is not really in the spirit of the published rules, though they seem to have nailed him for non-reporting, rather than importation per se.
New Zealand is fairly laid back, and does not tax .999 metal, though they expect it to be reported. The Australians can be assholes, but you likely already knew that.
I would not take PMs across the US border, though outbound to Canada the US side rarely checks vehicles at all, but simply has a sign posted "$10,000 in cash or equivalent must be reported".
A client of mine from Canada also had .999 Buffalo's seized by CBSA, for not reporting under the Customs Act (even though they are currency and legal tender, as US. Code Title 31). Note if they had applied the PCMLTFA (Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundry) and Terrorist Financing Act), the language would be "confiscated", not "seized". "Seized" means you can pay a penalty and have it returned, "Confiscated" means "gone", though it can be returned by Federal Court if you can prove that no crime had taken place.
Canadians care about gold and silver very much. So much so that the form you report the importation with (ie your name, passport # and address) is stored for ever for future reference. Maybe other countries do not keep records of who has gold/silver, but Canada definitely does.
This fact is not publicized, but if you had any insight into the inner workings of the Canadian BSA you would know this.
I think your right, the only way this makes sense if you already have a house overseas and that you bury the gold coins in the backyard of that house.
"First Doug tells about the growing challenge of taking PMs across borders."
Nobody in his right mind should be carryin gold travelling in or out of 3rd world countries. You'll be lucky to find yourself in a ditch still breathing.
The smartest option is probably buy a small section in rural Canada to keep your stash. Anyone with fatter wallets should consider renouncing their citizenship, let the IRS have its last bite then they can fook off.
A million USDs makes you eligible for residency and private banking in a lot of places. Lots of options for anyone who has that kind of folding paper.
>>>Nobody in his right mind should be carryin gold travelling in or out of 3rd world countries. You'll be lucky to find yourself in a ditch still breathing.
Quoted for obvious truth (unless you really, really, really know what you're doing).
During the GOP debate they said you could renounce US citizenship by joining ISIS, so there are alternatives to dealing with the US Govt.
New Zealand's government is run by the allies of U.S. banksters. As Kim Dotcom found out.
I called New Zealand last year to the customs office. They told me as long as the coins were .9995 pure or better that there would be no problem bringing in $10-15,000 worth. No import fee. I also called US customs two years ago and they said silver and gold bullion is just a commodity and the $10,000 declaration limit did not apply leaving or entering the US.
That doesn't mean the rules wont change though. Never leave much in the way of cash, bullion or jewels in a bank vault.
New Zealand has a mint with allocated storage available. You can wire transfer funds to their bank account and store it there. No US tax reporting is required on bullion storage. Of course if you don't have possession of your bullion, ultimately you can never be 100% sure you will have access to it. People with vast wealth store their assets in multiple locations around the world hoping that they will be able to get access to at least some of it if the SHTF.
Worry moar about your wallet if you get pulled over in TX or NM
This article -
"... you MUST report cash or monetary instruments totalling above $10,000. Failing to do so is asking for trouble. It does NOT say that any currency or monetary instruments above $10,000 will be seized. Again, it is completely legal to carry sums of cash or precious metals across international borders, so long as you declare it and have a reasonable explanation as to why you’re carrying it into the foreign jurisdiction."
That is my understanding as well. You can bring into/out of the USA whatever amount of gold you want, but if the market value is over $10,000 you have to report it to Customs. Same as CA$H.
Note that Bitcoin nicely skirts that, as long as your destination country has options for spending (like gold suppliers who take BTC -- there are FOUR here in the USA that I know of) or localbitcoins.com.
Good article - thanks.
I would say to carry a few brochures from coin shows for the places you are traveling from and to just for additional support for transporting silver and gold coins.
Consider what happened to KimDotCom. Placing your stash in any safe deposit box etc just makes it easier for the US govt. to obtain a seizure notice which will be acted on, in most countries allied to the US.
>>>No US tax reporting is required on bullion storage.
Be careful.
If you just have a key to a box, it's definitely not reportable. If you have a receipt for a locked box, with no mention of its content, it's not reportable.
If you have a receipt for "one hundred ounces of gold", it very likely IS reportable, as a specific quantity of valuables is being stored to your account - a financial account, as it were, at least in the eyes of the IRS. Or so says Mark Nestmann, whose opinion, and caution, I respect.
FWIW the "New Zealand Mint" is private firm, though they do produce legal tender coins for other countries, and seem to be a reputable firm. Also FWIW New Zealand IS a reasonable place to store PMs, as it has no inheritance or capital gain tax to worry about. Also, no reporting requirement for large cash transactions, though PM prices are not cheap, particularly for silver. Perhaps a good place for you or your heirs to sell PMs, avoiding any Imperial entanglements.
I was told by a US Customs agent that gold worth more then 10,000 USD had to be declared leaving the country. I was at the airport taking it out of the country when I was told that. The law is confusing for everyone including the government but is good for them as they can apply anyway they want.
Sell PM in local country , buy bitcoin , travel through border , sell bitcoin and buy back PM.
That'll work for many countries (Switzerland, the UK) but will NOT work in Peru.
*Sigh*
I checked frozen fish and abalone in a taped up cooler insde a duffle bag. Southwest in Oakland, CA questioned me. They wanted to make sure I didn't have any ice. So fish is suspect.
I traveled a domestic airline with a coin collection as carry-on about a year ago and it lite-up the x-ray. They questioned me, searched me, and security didn't know what to do. They fumbled around and eventually let me pass. They didn't seem to be any hard polcy to deal with it. So domestic travel with silver will get you searched, and your stuff will be out of the bag exposed for everyone to see.
Once a camera tripod with retractable pointed tips lite up the airport security x-ray. The computer screen had red XXX's all over them. They again didn't seem to have a set polcy, but eventually let me through.
This summer, in Mexico City airport, I transfered to Aeromexico, with cash and iphone in my carry-on. Security took my carry-on, when I got it back the cash and phone were gone. When I arrived in Puerto Escodido, the Aeromexico personnel told me Mexico City airport personnel steal stuff from baggage all the time. According to the US Mexico City consolate website, Mexico City airport is controlled by three different gangs and recently had a running gun battle inside the terminal with several officers killed. Apparently Mexico City does have set policy for your luggage.
Hmmm....I think I'm going long safes...
The guy down the block has his guns and his PMs in one of those massive gun vaults. Seems very secure as long as he does not brag about it and advertize for trouble.
Jewelry should be a good way to transport gold. Find a way to make your coins into it if you want to avoid being searched and questioned.
double. deleted
do not use a smart phone to buy stuff..a small step to keep your freedom. the media makes it cool and hip, the media is not your friend.
24k gold jewellery does not fall into any box and does not have to be declared.
Just saying.
The Indian lady down the block could not get her money out of India so that's what she did. Bought a very nice 24k necklace and wore it thru all the airports and customs under her sweater.
So what do people do for coin shows? $100k is really not that much in coins if you are going to a show I suspect.
They put the coins in a BIG safe on a pallet and move it with a lift truck to an OTR truck. Off duty cops provide well-armed security. Any large ANA coin show will have half a dozen safes on pallets on the show floor.
Belt buckle, buttons, ear rings, toe ring, toof fronts, necklace, watch, ring, glasses, phone case, laptop case, zippers, lucky charm, gold dildo; gold can be converted into different shapes. Sounds very magical.
I bet coin shows declare it or don't declare it. I know others who just drive from show to show and stay under the radar.
Use Bitcoin !
You can cross borders by just memorizing a long sentence that gives you control to potentially millions of dollars !
How long? We struggle with "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dingo." Wait dodo, "lazy dodo".
13 simple words with the latest version of Electrum (it's conveniently included in the TAILS live CD). It looks something like this:
claim sing intact buyer bring noodle vibrant program appear misery unique lunar accuse
Easy enough to remember (for many).
I agree, it requires certain brain capacity, that's why it's bashed by some.
Get real Fonster, the only border you've ever crossed was the one from reality to self-delusion...
Bitcoin is the new barbarous relic.
Gold is never having to say you are sorry that you forgot the bitcoin sentence/blockchain whatever.
I can't believe how backward and barbarous our ancestors were. They didn't even know bitcoin existed... what fools. If only my grandpa had invested 1BTC in the 1930s... with all the compound interest I would have been a bittionaire by now. Dammit gramps!
And then you could have loaned it out, fractionally of course, and raked in the bitterest.
Hey clever cloggs , ever heard of a thing called a Metal Detector ? How about an X-Ray machine ? No ?
Well with bitcoin you can send your money anywhere on earth , so how about this - you sell your PM for bitcoin , email yourself the private key , then walk through any airport / border in the world , then on arrival cash in you bitcoin for PM.
If you don't get that then good fucking luck wallowing in your own ignorance.
crazytechnician,
assuming, of course,
that your e-mail with the code
will not be intercepted by NSA, or by one of its affiliates.
Ever heard of encryption ? Send it with a fucking strong password .......
There's no encryption a peon like you can use that they can't break.
You people make me laugh. On and on with all your tech bullshit, never realizing that if the entire internet disappeared today most of the world's population wouldn't even notice.
The question is not "unbreakable" the question is - how much time and effort would it take?
And then - what is the real message? Because there is also code - "this phrase" means "that" and "that phrase" means "the other".
You also have the problem that any message can be transformed into any other. Which decoded message is the correct one?
"email yourself the private key"
BWAAAAHAHAHAHHAA So much for all that crypto security. LOL, you were saying something about someone wallowing in their own ignorance and then recommended EMAILING YOUR FUCKING PASSWORD.
Bitcoin = USA = predatory
One Bitcoin group now controls 51% of total mining power, threatening entire currency’s safetyhttp://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184427-one-bitcoin-group-now-controls...
June 16 2014.
Read my other reply.
I'll raise your grade to B+ for repeating the same bullshit and trying to scare people even more.
ha. Doug Casey. does he get you a second passport for 30000 like Berwick? you too can be a gringo in south america. good luck eating a peanut butter sandwich in front of the hungry.
24k jewellery? no one move, i have bit coin. fucking losers.
I have bitcoin too, but having either gold or silver won't make me a fucking loser. ALL will have a place at the table, and Harry Dent is correct on holding cash, but moreso not for the reasons he outlined!
indian jewellerey is 18k. the finest in the world. tell me where they make 24k wearables. nobody move, i have bitcoin. stick with pet rocks.
Bullshit. Indians sneer at 18k. It's 24k or nothing.
how long have you been an idiot? just tell us what year you were born.
You're both wrong. Indian jewelry is 22K. (e.g. www.totaram.com)
ronron
Vietnam and other Asian countries produce 24k jewelry.
Go to almost any Asian jewelry store in NYC, San Francisco, and many other cities in the USA and you can directly purchase 24k jewelry.
I've crossed borders with gold coins and never had anyone even care to look at them. As other posters say jewelry is great also. The Indians have this down pat already with 22k jewelry.
It's already beginning in the US. I have a friend who recently reported being questioned at Los Angeles Airport (LAX) about whether he was taking any gold coins out of the country.
If you want a safety box, get one from a company that offers that service exclusively, not from a fucking bank. For fucks sake. A bank is ground zero for all things privacy related.
Yeah, I've never understood it either. One can secure important documents, cash, gold, jewels (whatever) anywhere, why do they continually place them in the most obvious unsecure places?
Don't forget to choose the right company: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/578911/Eight-appear-court-Hatton-Garden...
Name a few specifically, please.
Dallas: http://www.inwoodvaults.com
Denver: http://cvsafebox.com
Your Town: http://www.google.com
A gold dealer near MSFT headquarters in Seattle told me a story of a woman who was a contractor with MSFT who put a good junk of her salary into gold on a monthly basis. When she was set to go back home to India, she had him melt the gold into bangles, wore them onto the plane and off she went.
I think Northwest Territorial Mint there in Seattle will do custom work like that but I'm not 100% sure.
Yeah, but you sir, would raise suspicion going through security wearing 10 lbs of women's jewelry.
LOL. I'll go as Mr. T.
A man flys to Denmark and gets questioned by border control, "why have to got 400 condoms in your carry case?" Answer: I'm going on holiday......
The two simple facts that this guy not only proclaims gold prices are not manipulated but his flogging of radically overpriced properties in a collapsing nation as a way to diversify and "save one's self" religates him and anything that comes out of this so-called "research" consortium as useless fucking blather in my opinion.
I know. I would always laugh when Id see posts by him and on the same page read about the ongoing socialist collapse of argentina. Pretty funny. Im sure there are a few people regretting their investment in "galts gulch" down there. Something he seems to ignore is that the FIRST PLACE those countries are going to look to steal from once things start to get really interesting is rich foreignors.
I live in Argentina. I agree a bit with you about Casey, I would never move to his Estancia, but you're wrong about Argentina. Yeah, things are collapsing and the country is taking step after step towards being a copy of Venezuela, but things are not bad here for foreigners. I've lived here for almost 15 years now and by keeping a low profile and integrating myself into the culture I am no different than any of my other "wealthy" neighbors.
WTF, governments control you everywhere, at least here I can take my kids to the pediatrician for $15, and I don't have to worry about the police stopping me for a broken taillight.
I visited friends who have a small place behind that Recoleta Cemetery. It's a great neighborhood seems to me. Cafes, etc for nice evening strolls. is it still pretty nice?
I don't live in BA but I was there earlier this year. Yes, Recoleta and Palermo are still nice neighborhoods. Most of Buenos Aires "Capital" (the Federal District enclosed by the "General Paz" Beltway) is still clean and relatively safe. There are some exceptions like La Boca and and the growing slums. But I HAVE seen a huge downward spiral in other major cities, like Rosario, Córdoba and Mendoza, where ten years ago you could go anywhere without fear, but today, f*ck, you gotta be careful which streets you take. Some major avenues that I used to take 10 years ago in my wife's home city are now outright dangerous. Taxis now take the long way to get anywhere to avoid the bad neighborhoods.
Crime in Argentina is not as bad as everyone hears on the news, but it definitely ain't as safe as it was 15 years ago, and it depends a lot on who has been running the show the last few years. BA mayor Mauricio Macri, who is running for president, is a political upstart with business background. But a lot of other major cities are run by Peronist narco-governors who just steal public funds and buy votes with loaves of bread...
Thanks for your first-hand accounts. Never meant to imply that the country was becoming a war zone or something, only that many places purported to be "safe havens" for capital by some of these people are not necessarily so. Freedom however flourishes in countries like Argentina for the very reasons you state, describing your lifestyle. Good for you! The country is unquestionably a gorgeous place with many benefits if residing there no doubt.
Please tell me, what is the average price for a really nice 2 bedroom apartment in a nice part of Buenos Aires now?
Cheers and best of luck.
It's true that, in spite of asfixiating taxes and a quasi-communist government, I feel much more "free" in Argentina than in the USSA. Then again, I do not depend 100% on the local economy for my family's well-being. There are things that really make you realize that the entire world is screwed in the near term, like how I had to fill out FATCA paperwork to get a car loan this year.
Often we ponder about moving to the States, but the economic equation just doesn't add up. I can't imagine raising my kids in the USA now with the ridiculous cost of living. And lifestyle-wise, and culturally, we much prefer Argentina.
Casey's Estancia is not a safe haven. It's a "look I'm a rich foreigner in a tiny town full of indians that only have jobs because of the wine industry" real estate development. Don't get me wrong, Cafayate is beautiful, and back in 2002 it was on our short list of places to invest and live, but in the end it was the cultural and ethnic backdrop that pushed us away from Cafayate and made us choose Patagonia instead.
I think a really nice 2br in BA could be had for $200,000 now, and a really, really nice one for $300,000. And if you want to have thieving politicians for neighbors in a really nice area protected by the Navy you could splurge $500,000 or more for one in Puerto Madero.
All in all, Argentina has been a blessing for me personally. It is amazing to live among people with such incredible abilities to defy adversity. Argentines are so accostumed to being mistreated by their government and their central bank that it's now a way of life. They can turn any crappy situation into an advantage. And they always find a way to survive and even prosper. That's the spirit that always makes me confortable living among the people here. They are very industrious and work-oriented yet, at the same time, materialism and phony-ness take a back seat to enjoying life, even in the face of what for many westerners would seem to be insurmountable odds against living a decent life.
I live Argentina as well, and was actually the first person (I think) on Zerohedge to suggest moving money internationally on airlines in precious metals (check my comments from 3 or 4 years ago). It used to work flawlessy. Airport security had no idea. I doubt that most still have any idea what gold or silver are worth, or what coins actually are gold. They are just told to check for gold, and so they do.
I've been in Argentina for 3 years (living) and have been traveling here before that. Your experience will vary depending upon what part of the country that you live in. I do not have the feeling that the country is "falling apart." Never have. Cordoba has not changed much in all the years that I have been traveling there. (I lived in Cordoba for a time). Crime is not rampant in most of the cities that I have been too (Rio Tercera, Rio Segunda, Cordoba, San Luis, etc...). I agree with LvMisis that I certainly feel much "freer" here than I did in the U.S. The police are not nearly as intrusive, rude, or confrontational as in the U.S.
I do disagree, however, with the idea that the country is moving closer to Venezuela every day. The Argentine government is no more intrusive or burdensome than the U.S. government. In many ways, it is less intrusive. If I want to do something on my property, I just do it. Sometimes there is a tax to pay, but most things, you are free to do it. I don't need five inspectors to tell me whether or not I can add a wall or a toilet to a building. I just add a wall or a toilet. If I don't want to connect to the local gas service. I don't have to. I can just use propane tanks. No one cares. If I don't like the local electric company. I put up solar panels and live with my own electricity. No one cares. If I drill a well and decide to use my own water. No one cares. No one calls the local Bureau of Land Management to have me arrested, fined, abused, and threatened.
What is more. People are very comfortable operating in cash here, and it is expected in most parts of the country. In fact, some inmobilarias (real estate agents) actually expect you to present cash upon the purchase of property (which usually means a suitcase or several with cash).
Forget Buenos Aires if you want to invest in or live in Argentina. It is overpriced, overcrowded, dangerous- like most large cities, and living there will lead you to believe that the country is falling apart (just as living in New York will make you neurotic eventually and leave you with the conviction that all social order could collapse at any moment). Argentina is filled with lovely pueblos and villas in the center of the country- Rio Cuarto is beautiful, the traslasierras are beautiful- a place like Villa Las Rosas, or example, filled with artesans and lovely little Romanesques villas and small estates). You can purchase, if you are savvy enough to use a process called contado por liquidacion, a lovely Romanesque villa here, on 3 or 4 acres of land for $150,000 USD- complete with stable, guesthouse, courtyard, and olive orchard. Or you can buy a 9th-floor 2 bedroom apartment in a dubious neighborhood next to a noisy street in Buenos Aires, for a little more.
Excellent addition to the conversation.
I think the BA vs interior debate, as in any country, depends on what people are looking for. I would never live in a big city like NY or BA, but for single or divorced people, it could be ideal if you don't mind the noise and chaos. IMHO it's a horrible place to raise a family, but a wondeful place to enjoy big-city lifestyle. The lifestyle thing is big for some people. Had an expat friend a few years ago move to BA from Patagonia because he was bored. It happens. The nice thing in Argentina is that there is something for everyone.
No way! Casey's legit, bro.
He even brought Stansberry into his "research" operation, and that guy is always on the up&up.
I've wondered if "The International Man" and Schiff are stranded at the same Puerto Rican PO Box.
Captain Obvious here: "Crossing borders with "GOODS" is EASY, just don't cross at ROADS - fields and wooded areas are much easier. Then meet up with the person [completely free of "contraband"] driving a car who SAFELY crossed the border." It's so easy, a caveman can do it...
Several of the gold pushers recommend storing gold overseas, which has always seemed the height of sutpidity to me. In even a minor collapse it may be impossible to travel overseas due to govt travel restrictions, airline failures, lack of funds, etc. How is anything stored overseas going to help you if its not immediately available?
Marc Faber advocates locational diversification of gold holdings.
That makes total sense in a world where "online assets" could be locked down and made utterly inaccessible in seconds.
Location, location, location isn't just about real estate.
I have been bringing 7-8 gold coins down per trip to my LatAm property and burying them for the past few years. I now have about 1/4 of my gold down there.
How is that stupid..?
I suggest you consider a little international diversification yourself.
Tick tock, tick tock...
You mind telling us which "Lat Am"??
I do not think an overseas location is a bad idea if it's in a nation like Switzerland which is known for it's relative safety. Then again, with FATCO I am not sure any of these foreign banks will do business with an American citizen anymore. I read they do not want the hassle.
Very true...but the use of a corporation and escrow account work adequately for majority of day to day needs.
FATCA is a fucking joke. I can't wait for the US to implode and countries start to tell them to go fuck itself.
Were it not for my boating accident in which I lost 150K in coins I would explain.
A similar question arises with services like Goldmoney. If you need to cash out bits of your overseas-stored PMs, all of that accessing of it is via the banking system.
You can keep Bitcoin in your brain's memory. YeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaa don't forget or you'll be sorry.
$237.18
Don't forget, you're talking about the US, where the most common password is "password."
But gold is a relic, so you can have as much of that as you like..
/s
I wonder whether melting it into religious relics (e.g. cross, menorah, etc.) would facilitate border crossing.
Not going into any muslim country.
Bitcoin is 5 years old. qed.
Unintended consequences.....
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/184427-one-bitcoin-group-now-controls...
Article written on June 16 2014.
BTW a 51% control of the blockchain isn't bad as long as the group that owns 51% doesn't do double spending.
I could own 100%, as long as I don't modify the blockchain in any way, all I'm doing is verifying the transactions.
Ideally, staying under the 50% is better but it isn't bad to go over. Normally if a pool gets to 51%, people start to switch pools to re-allocate the hashing power.
Nice attempt at trying to scare people, I'll give you a B-
Current pool hash pie chart below.
https://blockchain.info/pools
PS: I would be more worried about QE4 then someone owning 51% of the Bitcoin hashing power. Bitcoin is 3B$ market cap.
USD is in the trillions if not Quadrillions! No one knows anymore...
Bernanke said that gold is not money, so should be no problemo... They are just paper weights.
I don't know if they will believe the 'boating accident' thingy but that's my story even though we are miles from water.
OK, then what about remittances? My wife here in US, who is Green Card status (and I have told her that there is no advantage in getting US Citizenship) sends $600/month back to her mother, now in ill health, in Philippines, and has been doing it for years. So in a sense , has established an under the radar screen behavior that is also seen with hundreds of thousands of remitters. Seems like once her mother dies (now over 75 and fading fast) the money could keep going overseas and from there, on her next visit to Philippines, she could buy PMs there locally.
You're going to get your wife killed in a robbery pal.
RP (Republic of Phils) imports 20-40 billion (US$ equivalent) each year from overseas workers. If she's not a citizen she can transfer all she wants back to RP and this will likely not change. As for gold though, good luck, with the VAT/Sales tax it'll be an uphill battle to buy gold unless you know a good manufacturing jeweler source.
My suggestion is simple: Visit Chaing Mai (Thailand) shop for necklaces and return with them (back to RP) around her neck. Thai gold is 23kt (~96% pure gold). The jewelry is nicely made, true to karatage and the mark-up is astonishingly low (~11%). I randomly tried a dozen places in CM's jewelry district with a ~1/4 ounce chunk of steel whose weight I knew to 1/100th gram. All places were very close to accurate, a couple even underweighed my standard. (This means that since they sell by gram weight they were undercharging me by about 1/4%). RP to CM/Thailand RT tickets are often dirt cheap adn CM's a great place to spend a week. Thai jewelery (necklaces) makes American gold (14kt = 58.6% gold) look anemic.
If opening a peso account consider though that $US 10,000 early this year converted to peso has become about 4% devalued due to forex change. Additionally there is the US$ to RP peso translation cost, (even if she returns with $9900 in $100 bills in her purse) but still, I agree, diversification is wise.
Not quite the same experience but.. Last year flying Denver to Dallas I am behind a lady getting hassled about the sealed batteries for one of her medical machines I finally get called around her as they had search her wheel chair (can't make this up) the x-ray jockey scans my 3 day pack and the woman next to him calls me over for a "random check". I oblige and hand her my bag, she proceeds to open the very front of 3 pouches the one that happened to contain my pocket sized constitiution a notepad and a velvet bag with 6 silver eagles and $10 in pre '64 quarters, she unties the bag and dumps it out a couple hit the floor and the rest make a enough ruckus in the bin that half the terminal is staring at us. She is beet red from embarassement and quickly says "thank you sir, have a great day" and disappears from the area. Had she finished checking my bag she would have come across my vacuum sealer, my tray of special thin mints and the variety of Cannabis oil cartridges for my E-cig...I was polite the whole time and didn't offer the faintest bit of trouble but I guess when she came across part of my every day carry she was afraid I would give her trouble. I found the whole thing hilarious, my wife just rolls her eyes and says "only you"
You treat them with the utmost respect. No fear. No gut knots. And "These are not the droids we are looking for."
I bought a handgun in Ukraine, it was a real gun but converted not to fire. Had all the documents.
Anyway was at the airport there in ukraine, it was in my checked bag... they scan all of them.. freaked out and took me... MR. you have gun in your bag!!
Anyway it was all good, let me go on. Stopped in Vienna, then Toronto, no other problems... no scans of bags in the west...
Bernanke: "Gold is Not Money"!
Gold: "Fuck you, Bernanke".
The most interesting aspect of the story is that for some reason the $10,000 limit is the only government figure that hasn't been subject to inflation. Back when the law was created, $10k was worth a lot more than now. Encroaching, inexorable capital controls.
In 1970 ten grand would get you five new VW beetles with about a grand in change in your pocket. Today ten grand will get you about 50% of a stripped down new Jetta.
It now takes about a hundred grand to buy five new VW Jettas.
This means ten grand back then is now worth about one hundred grand today.
A 1963 nickel bought a full-sized hershey chocolate bar.
Today $1.00 to $1.29 in the norm. That's 95% purhasing power loss. Look through your nickels and eventually you will find one that bought nickel candy bars.
That $3,000 passive income loss against active income carry forward has not been updated by the IRS either.
ZeroHedge would be so much better if the Tyler's would ban these damn bitcoin asses. All they do is distract from rational and sometimes interesting discussions.
You have to clear anything of value over $10000. Cash, Cash Equivalents, Stores of Value, etc etc.
Diamonds, Gold, Cash, Checks, Money Orders, etc.
The author is a moron.
So travel on a day when fat nasty Mr. Yellen is going to speak on a option expiration day. You know gold will be hammered so fucking hard the decrease in price will get you in under the wire.
No shit and the trollers that troll the trolls.. Same bitcoin shit , different day, thread after fucking thread.
I disagree: you need to get to the next country you call home and store your gold coins with you in that country and not return to the one you're leaving behind.
Any country trying to prise gold out of you & revoke your passport for a mere accusation should in fact be left behind as a backward, 3rd-world nation with immediate haste.
Around 2011 an American guy created a fantastic thread at Kitco forums. He'd drank the koolaid that USA was headed for imminent doom. He was an IT guy with skills. A wifw and a kid. He sold off property he inherited, and the home he owned, and turned it all into physical gold and silver. He took photos of it all, big stacks. I think about $300k.
He had obtained a visa to emigrate to Australia. Pretty bold move.
He detailed the paperwork necessary to move all the coins. As I recall, just one important form to exit USA with it. He flew to LA first, and he got sent to a special room because they did not know about the procedure. But a supervisor let him through. In LA he had no problems. It was all in two bags. In Australia they welcomed him in. No hassles mate.
You can likely find the thread. Highly informative. One of the best forum discussions I've ever seen.
I wonder how he's doing.
Living poor in Australiia no doubt. Although Australia is the only white English speaking nation on Earth so I'm sure it's quite nice. Consistently ranked among the highest standards of living in the world next to really only Switzerland (which is another rich white nation with secure borders).
What about New Zealand? Doesn't that count?
Actually he's probably doing ok. Consider that today in the USA gold is right now 1108 but in Oz it's 1550 in Oz$.
If he only sold his metals to meek expenses and is paying off a house mortgage that is in Oz dollars gold did much better there (at this time) then in America.
Perspective is important and forex translation is there in the middle of it.
I took almost 500 1 ounce silver rounds thru Dulles on an international flight and yes, they asked me to show the coins at the x-ray and security check point, but other than that it was no big deal. They assumed they were challenge coins that military people collect.
It was under $10,000 USD in value and they didn't care other than making sure it wasn't a bomb or something. They swabbed it with something for some kind of chemical test and then I was on my way. No paper work or reports filed as far as I know.
By the way, I don't recommend carrying 30 pounds of metal around in your carry on. Or just in general. Wish I'd never bought all this metal. I got suckered like so many others into dumping a large portion of my life savings into "precious" metals only to watch about 50% of the value drop away in short order. I highly recommend investing in housing, cars, vacations, electronics, food, prostitutes, drugs, or whatever floats your boat (speaking of which, buy a boat instead of tens of thousands in metal).
If we're headed for hyper inflation then you should go massively into debt buying up assets (real estate especially).
The real estate requires property taxes and/or insurance.
Also Doug, if my gold coins are outside the country, and the .gov pulls my passport, what the fuck will I do?
I feel yer pain dude, I bought pretty high too, largely because this shithead said the world was ending in 2011.
Gold would have been the better bet in this case.
cars, electronics, food? Not really investments. Stockpile hard licquor and boolits.
This guy seems like an idiot. I would have asked the first time why they asked me if I had gold, 3 times later and he still never asked. And 10k cash is not hard to hide, dumb ass!
Maybe it is time to start buying platinum wire and start making coat hangers with them. Get your wife to knit a cover. Hang your clothes on them and take then with you when you leave the country.
Don't forget to paint it black. and make sure the wire twists look machine made.
Those Pt wire coat hangers will stand out like a sore thumb on an x-ray scanner that uses multiple wavelengths to distinguish materials by Z. Pt (78) will stand out just like gold (79).
You'd best make that 80% platinum, 20% rhodium or your clothes hanger shoulders will droop badly.
Pure platinum is pretty soft even when work hardened.
Money laundering keeps banks solvent. It is why Russia, Europe, and China are going very slow on ending Prohibition.
The US doen't need Prohibition to keep banks solvent. The US has the FED.
Ending Prohibition is another US squeeze on economies outside the US.
Entering Canada with gold coins is a nightmare.
You have to declare all gold and silver coins (like the silver eagle, gold buffalo, etc) as "goods", not "currency". Failure to declare pursuant the Customs Act will get the coins seized if found. There is no minimum, so one undeclared coin is all it takes, and you will also end up with a record of contravening the Customs Act, which means no more Nexus for you, and heightened scrutiny every time you cross the border after that.
The kicker is that CBSA agents know that gold/silver coins are "technically" currency, so if you have over $10,000 (CAD$, not US$) and declare them as "goods" but not "currency" they will confiscate them under the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundry) and Terrorist Financing Act. It is unclear if the 10k value is based on the underlying metal value or face value. In fact if you bring paper currency and some gold coins, and/or bank drafts, traveller cheques, it is the total sum that is considered for the $10k limit.
Of course, reporting your gold coins as goods means the Canadian govt has a name and physical address of the owner of the gold, so if at a later time they decide to round up all the gold, they know where to go and how much to expect to find.
Goods of Canadian origin are not reportable when returned to Canada; the BSA guys at the Vancouver airport specifically said this rule applies to gold maple Leafs.
They still might nail you if the value exceeds $10,000, though.
I transited Vancouver carrying gold and silver. I declared them and got through but I didn't like the Customs guy I had to deal with. I use to say I never met a Canadian I didn't like. I don't anymore. They are following the US it is clear. I won't be going back.
BS.
All "goods" are reportable, regardless where they are made. They may be zero-rated (no-duty) when imported to Canada, but they must be reported. The CBSA regards gold coins of any origin as "goods", not "currency" in spite of the clear definition in the Currency Act, but some officers have more common sense than others. The Minister of Public Safety (who is in charge of the CBSA) definitely regards gold coins as "goods", in spite of the law. I have it on CBSA letterhead, signed by deputy minister.
Your argument would not hold for a car made in Canada, and it doesn't hold for gold coins. Remember just because no duty is due, doesn't mean you can omit reporting it.
No doubt the RCMP care about the money laundry, so they look at the same coins as "currency" subject to the 10k reporting limit.
You'd better have more than one store of value for the Great Collapse. Barter items are better than even silver/gold. And who wrote this stupid article anyway?? "Fewer and fewer branches where you can cash a check" Is this clown shitting me? You can still cash a check ANYWHERE. Banks, grocery stores, checking cashing businsesses. So give me a break. Cash is going nowhere fast, especially in the U.S. Know why? The 2nd/3rd world influx of illegals coming in every day. They operate on a cash basis ONLY. They do not use banks....period. They do not trust them. First thing they do is cash their paychecks. Is paying the ridiculous fees to cash a check a crime? It ought to be its such a ripoff, but the point is that you can still do it without even having to think twice about it. Cash is going nowhere in the U.S. anytime soon thanks to illegals. And don't be a bitcoin sucker. Get script going. Its taking off in many places.
vending machines
Ha! All the vending machines where I work just turned to debit/credit cards.
The end is nigh!
The reason cash is going nowhere fast is not because of illegals. It's because of government's involvement with the drug trade, period.
edit: I did upvote you though
Frankly, I would rather bury coins in my back yard or somewhere nearby than take them to some other country. They will go to a cashless society faster in Europe than here and I would never in a million years put gold coins in some banana republic emerging market.
I had a plan to ride out into the middle of the Chilean desert in a place that no one could find and bury some coins. Never did it.
An x-ray machine like used in airports will readily distinguish gold or platinum coins from regular pocket change. Gold has a very high Z (79), and thus blocks high energy x-rays much better than Cu (29) or Ni (28) or Al (13). Even Ag coins are higher in Z (47) than ordinary pocket change, and that is probably why the x-ray technician wanted to look at them. She noticed they were not ordinary cupronickel alloy. To a modern x-ray scanner, gold will stand out like a sore thumb. The lowest Z precious metal is Pd (46) - which is only slightly lighter than silver - but is also denser than Ag and is thus distinguishable. The best plan is probably to bury your Ag or Pd coins in a jar of ordinary cupronickel coins because that will attenuate the x-rays enough to make them harder to spot.
They won't pick up diamonds Z (6). Perhaps this will become the mobile wealth transport of last resort. Don't carry the laxitave with you on the same trip!
It'll never affect me one way or another, the poor wealthy are on their own.
Just use a pair of public/private keys already (you can always convert back in cash or phyzz later with them...)
If you need to flee the "Land of the Fee" consider the following:-
small Gold - small Silver - Diamonds - Bitcoin - personal skills -
personal knowlage
Go on holliday here and learn to live off the land:-
http://www.happyhousefarm.com/
This is a public information broadcast from the British Resistance.