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Going Back To What Works: Gold Is Money Again (Thanks To Utah)

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As of today you really can pay your taxes, your credit cards, your mortgage, shop at Costco, and buy your groceries without so much as a bank account while using sound money.

As PopularLiberty.com explains,

The fact that Texas announced that it withdrawing its gold from Manhattan and is creating a state gold depository generated a good deal of interest because there would also be a way to transfer gold to others via said depository. So much interest that Texas received calls from all over the United States from folks that wanted to be part of such a system. The articles covering the future Texas depository cumulatively received millions of views. What was missed in all of this coverage is that a functional, and legal depository that allows anyone in the country to pay and save in gold dollars already exists. In Utah.

 

The United Precious Metals Association in Utah has gold and now separate silver accounts that act as checking accounts do at any bank or credit union. The way it works is that members deposit Federal Reserve Notes (or paper dollars) into their UPMA account which in turn translates them into golden dollars (or silver). The golden dollars are based off the $50 one ounce gold coins produced by the Treasury of The United States. They are legal tender under the law and are protected as such. So if I were to deposit $1,200 FRNs then I would have $50 golden dollars.

 

UPMA is the only institution in the country that I know of that doesn't have a buy/sell spread on their Golden Eagles or Silver Eagles. This means that all my $1,200 FRNs once converted to gold could be spent the next day without losing anything to any sort of premium. The price of a Gold Eagle is 5.8% above spot but when you 'cash out' you do so at 5.8% above gold spot. This effectively removes that barrier from sound money.

 

This year the UPMA released a gold backed debit card via American Express. The way it works is that a member may spend up to half of their gold or silver dollars in any given month period using the card. When I interviewed the founder of UPMA today, Larry Hilton, I learned that the way the card works is that they have made a contract with American Express so that UPMA members can use what are technically credit cards as a debit card anywhere American Express is accepted. The members are added on as 'employees'. Right now there are already hundreds of people around the country using this method of payment. They are literally spending gold on groceries without losing anything to premiums or in transaction fees to UPMA. In fact they get 1% cash back in gold.

 

This service is available to anyone in the United States and requires no credit check whatsoever. Using the billpay service online one can pay for what American Express can't such as credit card bills, property taxes, or your mortgage. The golden dollars are simply converted right back into FRNs and paid out. When asked Mr. Hilton affirmed that there are many people that don't store anything in the banks anymore thanks to this service. They are obsolete if you want to use sound money. There are no fees associated with the use of the card. Members that store more than $50 in golden dollars do pay a small storage/membership fee of 10 golden cents or $2.50 FRNs and an additional 0.25 FRNs for every additional $50. These $50 Golden Eagles can also be withdrawn and sent to you directly.

 

The United Precious Metals Association has the full backing of Utah Attorney General Sean Reyes who also uses the service. The legal foundation was set up in 2010 and 2012 here in Utah where the vault is located. Many members of the board including General Counsel Larry Hilton are lawyers that specialize in law regarding the use of legal tender.

 

An elected board of members makes regular audits to assure that all of the gold and silver is there and reports to the general membership every year at the monetary summit. This year it will be held on October 17 in Salt Lake City. The vault is insured from theft and fraud via the Llyods of London. They hold a 100% reserve ratio.

And as UPMA summarizes, this is nothing new and it is not different this time...In fact we are going back to what works...

All very unmodern? The gold standard is not up-to-date only if we have a yen for running away from economic success in the form of stable prices and major growth. After Nixon went off gold in 1971, abrogating the conversion agreement with the foreign nations, and keeping gold-holding illegal in the United States, inflation did things that were unheard of. The price level leapt by 200% from the late 1960s to the early 1980s, a period also bedeviled by the economic sluggishness known as “stagflation,” where double-dip recessions came every few years and the long term growth rate sunk below 2%. In the 1980s and 1990s, the Fed returned to conducting monetary policy in view of the gold price, and sure enough the consumer price index stabilized at one-third the stagflation level and growth rebounded past 3.5% per year. The verification just kept on coming: key on gold stability – effectively making the dollar convertible on demand to gold at a fixed price – and watch prices stay the same and growth shoot the moon.

 

In the 2000s, we are witness to a Fed that has disdained the gold price now for a decade. The result has been the loss of that decade to economic growth, as well as stirrings in key commodities such as oil and food, if not the brutal comprehensive arrival of inflation. If the Fed decided today to target the price of gold as the pole star in its monetary operations, there is no historically conversant reason to believe that we would have unfold before us anything but yet another era of price stability and maximal economic growth. For this is the only thing that has ever resulted from gold standards and their approximations throughout our history.

 

The arc of time has revealed connections that we have the opportunity to re-forge today. The United States became the largest economy in the world in the 1870s, was two-and-a-half times larger than the second-place nation in 1913, boomed along with everyone else in the Bretton Woods era, and in the 1980s and 1990s did not succumb to the “Eurosclerosis” or any “Japan disease” that afflicted its major economic partners. In every episode of fantastic economic performance – in terms of both price stability and major growth – there was a commitment to gold.

Choice in currency is being recognized as a basic human right around the world. Utah was the first State to make gold and silver coins legal tender alongside the U.S. dollar on March 25th, 2011.

 

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Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:41 | 6573276 MANvsMACHINE
MANvsMACHINE's picture

Yay!

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:48 | 6573297 Money Counterfeiter
Money Counterfeiter's picture

Every asset and dime the money counterfeiters have should be confiscated and given back to the people in gold.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:36 | 6573430 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

I was only half interested and ready to dismiss this until I got to the part where it said it maintained a 100% reserve ratio. No more fractional reserve bullshit. Imagine that. Definitely keeping an eye on this. Everything that guy said about the gold standard is true, greatest period of prosperity the world has even seen, and eventually, after the mess we have created is cleaned up, maybe we can return to that one day.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:49 | 6573453 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

This is really stupid.  Whether you pay your bills in FRN or "gold", what's the difference?  It's still dollar for dollar.  Big fucking deal.

It doesn't matter how you pay your bills; however you do it, you'll be ultimately converting into the common currency.  What matters is what backs the currency with which you pay your bills.

This will only make sense if/when the FRN collapses.  And even then there's no guarantee this "depository" will still be around redeeming transactions for metal.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:29 | 6573517 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You missed the point.  This is a place to store your wealth that actually have 100% reserve and a way to spend it, if you so choose, in the currently accepted manner. 

Suppose the dollar tanks.  Your gold will still be there.  You can take it out as gold.  No doubt, if there is another currency to replace the dollar then you will be able to convert, if you so choose.

I bet you didn't read the bit about audits either.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:26 | 6573592 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

"YOUR" gold will still be "There"...

Where? In yer hand? Safe in yoru safe?

Bitgold, Bitoin....get ready to scramble for bits, all this is kabuki...

This, however, is definitely NOT Kabuki...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLWbiGxYq10

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:41 | 6573610 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I know, huh?  Like it's any safer in some random repository thousands of miles away than in my safe securely anchored to my castle.  At least in a SHTF situation I can just go open my safe for my gold.  Not so sure it will be available or even there at the "repository" under the same scenario.

-Chumblez.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:20 | 6573640 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Depository becomes repository becomes suppository...

Such is how the golden cookie crumblez....

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 04:42 | 6573724 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Man, Ive heard of boating accidents, but thats really going to the next level...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 05:23 | 6573740 Four chan
Four chan's picture

mormons and my gold will never meet.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 06:37 | 6573770 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Glenn Beck and Donald Trump will probably make peace first.

 

After which the Don will razz Glenn for buying his gold from Goldline.

 

Can't blame him......that's some pretty super expensive gold. It should come with a new car.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 06:57 | 6573813 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Man i'm speechless.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:11 | 6573834 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

 

 

Nurse.....a shot of adrenalin.....STAT!

 

No...the one with the long needle.

 

Yes....like Pulp Fiction.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:28 | 6573858 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

Some of you guys are missing the point. Keep the account funded with whatever amount you need to pay your bills in lieu of a bank account. If/when the dollar takes a shit, you have another layer of protection instead of having it in a bank or under your mattress. Sure, maybe the depository may have "problems" when SHTF but a bank will with 100% certainty have problems, and under your mattress devaluation is assured.

Your main hoard should still be at the bottom of the lake anyway. If you put too many FRNs for your comfort into it, you can apparently TAKE DELIVERY of your oz according to the article.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:43 | 6573886 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

 

 

TAKE DELIVERY

 

You can do that?

 

OK....where's the damn camera?

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 12:40 | 6574953 OrangeJews
OrangeJews's picture

So will people just buy their gold and silver from them instead of all the other places?  Where are they going to get all of the gold?  How long does it take from cash to them to Gold/Silver in my hands?  Neat but still a little off.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 06:55 | 6573810 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Depends on what they have to sell.  The Mormans I know have a good bit of food.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:12 | 6573942 ImGumbydmmt
ImGumbydmmt's picture

Yes, I really want to like this but memories of Bernie Maddoff and then there is that SouthPark  Episode

"And its gone. Next customer please"

just keep coming back to me.

So I am Supposed to trust them with my gold? Well ok i guess, is that better or worse than trusting a bank?

I am honestly not sure anymore.

after the route on gold and silver in 2013 one thing is for certain.

I don't know SH@# about how to out mauever the Elite and will get clobbered everytime i try.

Diversify.

Because like Carlin Said

"Is a big club, but you ain't in it"

 

I Miss America.

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:17 | 6573954 ImGumbydmmt
ImGumbydmmt's picture

One additional Thought.

It is appealing to  take some money OUT of the Fractional Reserve Banking System, Just to, in my own little way, send a middle finger to all of "them", the Fed Bankers, Dimon,  Rothchilds,etc.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 16:29 | 6576089 mkkby
mkkby's picture

If gold is ever confiscated again, places like this will be out of business the first day.

Having said that, it would be nice to have something like this FOR AFTER THE RESET when converting PMs to the new trade unit will be necessary.  Until then, I can store my own gold.  Or at least I could up until the unfortunate boating accident.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 04:44 | 6573726 TongueStun
TongueStun's picture

How about those socialist jew media attacks on trump the emmys? HE'S THE REAL DEAL IF THE SOCIALIST JEW MEDIA ATTACKS HIM LIKE THAT......

 

VOTE FOR WHOMEVER THE , GREEDY LYING SOCIALIST JEW MEDIA ATTACKS THE MOST!!!

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:36 | 6573997 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

Funny how everyone questions everything about Obamas past( correctly, I might add) but no one seems bothered by anything trump did before a year or so ago. While I certainly agree with those questioning Obamas past, as there are some glaring problems there, it's curious that because you agree with trump no, today, he is given a pass for being a liberal and friends with the Clinton's, and the slimiest of shady business people. You trump cheerleaders are the true definition of sheep. Wake the fuck up.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 05:51 | 6573755 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

But the sun never shines there.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 03:38 | 6573694 rbianco3
rbianco3's picture

Bitcoin is the mark of the beast, government is becoming insterested in issuing their own digital currency.

 

Moving to bitcoin is a crapshoot, gambling nothing more. Putting thy trust in digital money is exactly what the new world order is waiting for us to accept.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:47 | 6574008 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

Sweet.  That is you on the scooter I assume?  The face is familar from the video I saw of your TED speech.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:30 | 6574146 HowdyDoody
HowdyDoody's picture

Breaking paradigms?

The BS-meter has gone to 11.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:49 | 6573605 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

This is my state and I am proud of them for one thing: No, not their liquor laws, but their distrust of federal government.  They have their own brand of control that extends to the local, where yes, they do not like control of outside sources, but it is of a breed that spawns from outside meddling (which was born from the idea of theocratic rule).  That distrust is well-founded, but as the old saying goes, "We see the enemy and the enemy is us."  Utahns are distrustful of the federal government by heritage, but its genesis derives from their desire to impose strict religious controls on their domain.  I live here, and in guaging the general consensus on libery and freedom... "they are not the droids you are looking for", so to speak.  Starting with the states is better than lobbying some distant federal district, however...just don't give Utahns too much credit.   I applaud the idea of safeguarding the idea of local control - which will always come down to money and currency, but in the hx of Mormons (and Utah), it was for nepotism and the exclusion of anyone that didn't believe in their lord.  Utahns will always be hawkish in this regard - and just read the history to see how they tried their own currencies (for control).

 

Again, bravo, but a bravo with a libertarian warning about control and tyranny and manipulation.  That is as optimistic as I get.

 

 

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:57 | 6573626 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Dude, you place way too much trust in Mormons.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:10 | 6573631 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

I have absolutely no trust in religion of any kind, other than that which I keep to myself.  But on the face of my statement, I believe I was arguing against the "trust" in mormons.  Am I missing something?  It's my belief that you read the first few lines and became the lazy shit.  Read on, please.

I-am-not-Chumbawamba-or-anything-where-I-put-my-name-at-the-end-of-every-post-that-also-has-my-name-like-I'm-a-self-absorbed-prophet

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 03:36 | 6573691 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

oh, snap!

chumbles got buuuuuuuuuuuuurned!

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 05:50 | 6573753 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

TL;DR

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:04 | 6574058 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Yes, you should only trust Christians!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 23:33 | 6577511 Trogdor
Trogdor's picture

"Dude, you place way too much trust in Mormons."

There are good and bad in every race, creed, religion. I know some fantastic Mormons, and I know some that are utter scum - it's the same everywhere.

The guy who started UPMA is also the guy who pushed the PM Legal Tender laws through Utah Legislature - not so he could have "control" but so that the people had an alternative to the disgustingly corrupt FRN. He was inspired to take on this monumental task, not by profits, but by reading "The Creature from Jekyll Island" and finally understanding how evil the Fed is. You're trolling on an idea based on your *assumptions* of how the organization is set up, how it operates, and possible benefits of using it - how intelligent is that? Nobody is saying you have to join UPMA, but maybe - if you're curious - you should call them and ask questions.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:43 | 6573537 The Duke of Skiatook
The Duke of Skiatook's picture

"This will only make sense if/when the FRN collapses"

Why else hold gold at all?  I'm pickin up what you're putting down about the counterparty risk and the risk of government confiscation but those risks are equally real if one chooses to store thier wealth in FRNs trusted to a bank.  I think I will open an account with these guys.  

I am the Ayatollah of Awesome

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 05:58 | 6573758 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Cuz it's simple: if your gold isn't in your secure personal possession then you do not own any gold.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:10 | 6574078 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Here, hold my beer gold.

Edit:  the strike through of beer didn't work.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 10:12 | 6574287 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

- Who elects the auditors?

- How does the bank make its money, if I'm supposedly paying so little for storage/transactions? Either I'm losing money on storage fees / transactions, or the bank is loaning out my gold.  If there is another option I'd like to know what it is.

- Where on their website does it say there is a 100% reserve ratio? It must be there, but I can't find it.

- I cannot find the word "allocated" anywhere on the website either. 

- Lloyds of London insures against theft/fraud.  How am I protected in the case of financial default? 

- Are my transactions taxable?  It appears so:

"Because the U.S. Treasury has not fulfilled its statutory duty to maintain the equal purchasing power of each type of U.S. currency, exchanging precious metal and paper dollars can present somewhat challenging tax issues. Utah's formal recognition of specie legal tender has set the stage to ultimately invalidate federal taxation on intrastate exchanges of one form of legal tender for another. Even so, until the matter is fully settled, the UPMA will be providing its members with expert analysis and recommendations for staying within safe harbor tax guidelines."

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 06:37 | 6573789 walcott
walcott's picture

dollar is worth way more today especially silver buying retards who listened to fuck face SGT Bull or Bob Chapman they fucked everybody.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 06:38 | 6573791 walcott
walcott's picture

SGT should be tarred and feathered misinformation cock sucking prick.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:39 | 6574164 scrappy
scrappy's picture

"Austrians nowadays come up with the most amazing arguments to downplay the fact that the Great Depression was basically a Fed induced deflation, while on a Gold Standard. Several people have offered me this study by the Fed, ‘proving’ it was not a deflation.
How does this compare with Austrian Economics’ successful exposure of the Fed manipulation of volume of the Money Supply? Does anybody believe anything the Fed says when it comes to volume of the money supply?
Do we really need to discuss Fed studies proving it did not cause the Great Depression?

Even Bernanke himself admitted ‘we did it’ in the speech that made him famous as Helicopter Ben. Of course we don’t even believe him when he blatantly speaks truth like that, but still."

Why Gold is so strongly deflationary

https://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/why-gold-is-so-strongly-...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:11 | 6573494 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

But first the people would have to learn the difference between money and counterfeit and how a deception regarding the nature of these two concepts came to be. Could it be taught that by this deception is how easily thieves stole.

Who is going to make that distinction? You?

Who can say clearly what the difference between money and counterfeit is?

How does one teach what is money and what is counterfeit?

...Unfortunately, the Austrian's failed...Oopsies, here comes despotism.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:49 | 6573302 coinhead
coinhead's picture

Bitcoin is teh same as owning gold, only better.

https://localbitcoins.com

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:53 | 6573313 WTFMOFO
WTFMOFO's picture

Cool

Do I get frequent skipping miles on the "yellow" brick road?

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:59 | 6573335 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

This is why Utah was labelled "hostile" under Jade Helm.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:19 | 6573384 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

There's actually quite a few lawyers and doctors who will gladly accept gold coins for their services. There's several law firms that have 20-30% of the "war chest" in gold coins.

 

It's common sense when you think of it.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:09 | 6573491 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Uncommon sense. That is the problem.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:12 | 6573499 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

They also have a prepper mentality. Plus, harems.

If they'd brew beer stronger than 3.2%, I'd move. But - NOT UNTIL THEN.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:30 | 6573519 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You mention a prepper mentality.  Brew your own.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:55 | 6573558 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

I actually did that when I was in college. Got it down to where I could brew a nice batch for 5 cents a bottle...but is that even legal in Utah?

But that raises another point: I should get the supplies for brewing while I still can. Hops grow well here, something else to think about...maybe I will have a post-collapse profession after all!!

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 10:39 | 6574364 WorkingClassHero
WorkingClassHero's picture

I live in Utah and brew my own beer.  It's mostly just for fun though because we have several great craft breweries selling high point beer.  The 3.2 thing is a myth.  Thats 3.2 alcohol by weight, which is actually 4% abv.  The law allows grocery stores to sell up to 4% beer but anything higher has to be purchased at a liquor store. Actually most of what outsiders think about Utah is completely false.  We prefer it that way so the hoards of coastal residents don't find out how great life is here for non-mormons. I've already said too much...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 13:55 | 6575294 Solomonpal
Solomonpal's picture

At WCH...same goes for Alaska. Please watch Port Protection and draw your conclusion.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 10:40 | 6574365 WorkingClassHero
WorkingClassHero's picture

duplicate

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:23 | 6573642 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

There's your in. Bathtub gin and weapons grade homebrew. Bring your own cosmic underpants.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:05 | 6573350 Dsyno
Dsyno's picture

Bitcoin. Digital 1s and 0s. Can't even wipe your ass with it, when shit hits the fan.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:31 | 6573418 coinhead
coinhead's picture

That's true... so move somewhere where teh party's goin on and not where teh losers are getting thrown in "lockdown" or shot.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 03:39 | 6573695 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

coinhead wrote:

"

 
Fone Star   1 week ago OMG!! Jim Willie! ·
 
MrZippoman777   6 days ago +Fone Star Missed your comments at the Hedge !!!!!!!!! Do you use another name ????? ·
 

Fone Star   6 days ago Yes BITBROTHER ZIPPO!  Fonestar has re-incarnated as "coinhead" now... actually has gone thru several reincarnations on Zerohedge as Tyler Durden continues to ban teh we!"
Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:24 | 6573854 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

My uncle met a Frenchman during WW II who was somewhat prescient.  The Frenchman realized that a second war was brewing between France and Germany so he wanted to move as far away from that coming conflict as he possibly could.  My uncle met him on Iwo Jima.

 

 

Fate has a plain.  Consider Wilmer McLean.  The Civil War started in his back yard and wound up in his parlor. 

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:32 | 6573421 runswithscissors
runswithscissors's picture

Bitcoin will do you no good when the shit hits the fan you'll need lead and brass to wipe out someone else's ass

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 03:42 | 6573696 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

some people seem to assume they just *know* exactly how things will go down in a shtf situation.

it could be a pretty wide range of scenarios. maybe have the humility to accept that you don't know the future, and you're just guessing.

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:28 | 6573646 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Bitcoin is fine, but any idea that crypto currency on it's own is rare is wrong. With the same computer powered encryption, there is nothing preventing shartcoin, guntcoin, armpitcoin or dwaynecoin ( all things I'm looking into ) from competing with bitcoin - and representing the exact same thing. Parallel currencies are fine, but  in this regard it blows the lid off any idea that bitcoin is unique and limited.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:53 | 6573310 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

What about the collectibles tax which is supposed to be paid on an profit from gold or silver? Does the employee designation allow the company to pay the tax from their end so you don't have to or have they gotten around the tax or is it something that could come back and bite them?

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:56 | 6573328 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

What it the relation between a money represented by precious metals and taxation?

 

 

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:05 | 6573336 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. Just seems like somebody could get NotHaused over something like this.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:44 | 6573354 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

From the tiny acorn between my ears, and my intellect seems to get pummeled smaller and smaller according to other threads around here, I do recall that the benevolence of money represented by metal is not so much the taxation of it but the need for it to be taxed at all in the first place.

The restraint of [commodity] money is the limitation of the amount that can be lent. The stranglehold is on the government to forgo any debt thereby impeding its necessity to whip up its payment. 

 

In other words, money lent must come from money that already exists. [Commodity] money is the collateral that exists before the debt can be underwritten. Even if it is paper that is exchanged it must be redeemable at any time into the existing collateral, gold, silver, nickel, or copper,

...instead of a future promise on a slave's labor.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:55 | 6573668 Hephaestus
Hephaestus's picture

You left out "Hence the phrase honest money."

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:58 | 6573334 SSRI Junkie
SSRI Junkie's picture

lawful money isn't taxable whether it's use was illegally suspended or not. "no state shall use anything but gold or silver as a tender in payment of debt"

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:11 | 6573347 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Well there's lawful and then there's the tax code.

 

"Net capital gains from selling collectibles (like coins or art) are taxed at a maximum 28% rate"

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html

 

 

Gold ETF Sellers Facing Tax Surprises at 28% Gains Rate

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-21/gold-etf-sellers-facin...

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:16 | 6573375 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

derrrrr....

 

Coin Act of 1792, Section 19 - Penalty on Debasing the Coins [Counterfeiting]

 

"And be it further enacted, that if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as to the proportion of the fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same out to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intent, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offenses, shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall suffer death."

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:34 | 6573524 Marco
Marco's picture

They are pretending there is none because of legal tender equivalence. AFAICS the IRS for the moment is pretending not to notice any of this because they aren't sure they can win, eventually it will get too big to ignore though.

Do you really want to be a test case? Maybe put an eagle in just to show support, for the rest I'd recommend a boating trip instead.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:51 | 6573546 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

That's likely the way it's being played. But I seem to recall that someone once tried to pay his employees with Eagles based on the $50 face value and got burned by either the IRS or FICA or whoever.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:20 | 6573849 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If UPMA gets the legislation they are pushing for, the IRS will stop pretending and go full South Park on them.

The first one is fightin' words, the second would imply that they are completely unregulated (and not a bank) at the moment.

---

Looking to the future, UPMA trustees plan to undertake initiatives designed to:

Exempt legal tender exchanges from federal taxes;

Establish specie repositories as state regulated institutions;

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:51 | 6573548 The Duke of Skiatook
The Duke of Skiatook's picture

I'm not a tax attorney or providing any legal advice here but I believe it has to do with the form in which the gold is held.  It is my understanding that gold minted by the government in the form of legal tender coins exempts it from being taxed as a collectible.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:08 | 6573568 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

 

May. 26, 2009

Robert Kahre, who owns numerous construction businesses in Las Vegas, is standing trial on 57 counts of income tax evasion, tax fraud and criminal conspiracy. If convicted on most counts, he could live out his life in prison.

But attorney William Cohan paints Kahre as an American "hero" who believes his payroll system helped keep the U.S. monetary system sound, and was also a form of legal tax avoidance.

A self-made entrepreneur, Kahre, 48, paid his workers in gold and silver coin, and said they could go by the coins' face value -- rather than the much higher market value of their precious metal content -- for federal tax purposes. He did not withhold taxes from their wages, and he provided the same payroll system to 35 outside clients, which were other local businesses.

Judge David Ezra is presiding over the criminal trial, which began May 19 in U.S. District Court. Joining Kahre as defendants are his longtime girlfriend, a sister who works in his businesses, and a former business assistant.

 

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/employers-gold-silver-payroll-standard...

 

 

December 9, 2013

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has upheld the criminal conviction of Robert Kahre, the man who incurred the wrath of the IRS by paying his employees in gold coin. Since the face value of the gold coins was significantly below the legal threshold that triggers withholding taxes, the Court held that Kahre didn’t do his duty to serve as tax collector for the U.S. welfare-warfare state by withholding income taxes from the monies paid to his employees. He’s now serving a 15-year sentence—yes, 15 years in a federal penitentiary!

http://fff.org/2013/12/09/the-u-s-vs-robert-kahre-a-horrific-miscarriage...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:55 | 6574022 Matlock
Matlock's picture

Notice that Kahre got in trouble for not "witholding income taxes from the monies paid...." If he withheld the FRN tax equivalent, could it have worked? Maybe the UPMA should pay its employees(?) in gold...you know, to show they really mean it.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:38 | 6573654 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

So I'm going with articles I've read speaking specifically to Canada. As I understand it - storing your money in different currencies lies outside of the tax code in one sense. Sure it's murky as there is a difference between forex trading and saving. As a silver stacker I know places where I can sell silver anonymously, yet other places require personal information for tax purposes. Much in the same way that, if I chose, I could store american dollars in my safe then exchange them back to canadian dollars, there is ( if one knows the right channels ) little in terms of a traceable trail for tax purposes for precious metals.

 

If precious metals go buck wild in terms of value, there may be new tax provisions put in place to be sure... but... in the same regard, if that becomes the case, there will doubtlessly become a grey and or black market for them.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:09 | 6573357 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I hope those Mormons know this means war

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:52 | 6573456 math envy
math envy's picture

Hmm... Utah did just have the worst natural (?) disaster in state's history several days ago. In Zion Park.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:50 | 6574205 Bunghole
Bunghole's picture

Sorry, but a box canyon flash flood which killed some knuckleheads who didnt realize the danger of hiking in a box canyon isnt a natural disaster.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 03:00 | 6573673 AmericanFUPAcabra
AmericanFUPAcabra's picture

How? All transactions are being done via a major credit card. Let me know when it actually translates to goods leaving one persons hands and gold/silver leaving the other. Plastic for plastic does not count.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:18 | 6573366 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

It just feels wrong and dirty to pay extortion fees - AKA taxes - with gold to the parasitites ... I'll pay them in digits instead - if I pay - and only until we can destroy the variant strain of parasitical DNA amongst us.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:28 | 6573409 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Someday, lead.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:49 | 6573658 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

Hi Billy,

So you work the graveyard shift here mostly?  http://www.zerohedge.com/search/user_comments?page=1&username=billy%20th...

Just so you know, I do not pretend to be a leader. 

That is not to say that lead (Pb) delivered accurately and effectively would not be something I would love to see in my time here. You can guess who I think are the ones with the lead deficiency...

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:48 | 6573662 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

Correction - parasites.

But I do like the typo I made - parasitites as a somewhat biblical sounding word for them... : )

 

https://archive.org/details/Mullinseustace-TheBiologicalJew1967Incl.Bibl...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:46 | 6573617 slimycorporated...
slimycorporatedickhead's picture

Greetings Comrades!

There is no silver shortage, repeat, NO silver shortage, but just for kicks here is a short list of items to buy off of my favourite canadian metals website:

100 oz ashahi up to 1 month delay
100 oz SMI up to 1 month delay
100 oz republic metals up to 1 week delay
1 kg republic 1 month
10 oz ntr 3 weeks
5 oz SMI 9 weeks
10 oz SMI 1 month
10 oz NTR goat 1 month
5 oz NTR goat 3 weeks
1 oz SMI 1 month
1 oz SMI wafer 1 month
1 oz SMI buffalo 1 month
1 oz SMI morgan 1 month
10 oz republic metals 2 weeks
10 oz scotiabank out of stock
1 oz pegasus round out of stock
10 oz jesus clears the temple 3 weeks
1 oz silver maple 2 weeks

Like I said, no shortage of silver, who wants 1 oz maples anyways? I can still buy an austrian philharmonic for 22% over spot tho.

Cheers.

 

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:08 | 6573632 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I need the last 2 zombucks coins, and the RCM bird of prey owl coins to complete my collection, then the world can burn. I mean, it can burn now, but my OCD will be sated if I can complete those sets.

 

p.s. boy was I disappointed in those frickin pegasus rounds.

p.p.s. the fruitbowl conspiracy that the powers that be are creating a retail shortage to stave off a commercial shortage makes some sense to me.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:14 | 6573949 Victor von Doom
Victor von Doom's picture

Out of interest, what was wrong with the pegasus rounds?

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:04 | 6573630 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Lower case yay. With this, there is one example to add to a small collection of other precious metal based spending accounts. Between now, and the scenario of the rise of precious metals' to their rightful historical place in the economy though... that is to say, them taking their TRUE PROPER place.. we will have to see the collapse of fiat fartface dollars, a clear accounting of what actually exists for physical metal ( boiling down the mass of leases, twin-turbo-re-hypothecation, bricks of cattle feces painted gold and silver with testors model paint, outright fabricated holdings).

 

This being the case, there can be no doubt that the path between now and then has an uncomfortable scenario of collapse and war in the way.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:42 | 6573280 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Coming soon - everywhere!

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:43 | 6573282 OC Sure
OC Sure's picture

Laissez Faire City is in Utah?

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:44 | 6573286 q99x2
q99x2's picture

banksters trashed the dollar and stole over 90% of everybody's money. I don't like banksters. I like gold and bitcoin too. I might get one of these gold debit cards. Sounds interesting.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:45 | 6573289 PesoFist
PesoFist's picture

How do they make any money on this operation?

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:10 | 6573359 Midas
Midas's picture

You still have time to re-read the article.  Good Luck!

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:36 | 6573531 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

A penny at a time...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:26 | 6573591 undertow1141
undertow1141's picture

'Members that store more than $50 in golden dollars do pay a small storage/membership fee of 10 golden cents or $2.50 FRNs and an additional 0.25 FRNs for every additional $50.'

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:48 | 6573294 nosam
nosam's picture

Doesnt this make it easier to confiscate gold if necessary? If you don't physically own gold, you don't own it.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:47 | 6573296 Sanity Bear
Sanity Bear's picture

Silver is also money and it's a lot harder to confiscate.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:06 | 6573489 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

Especially if you keep a 15:1 ratio of lead to silver, like I do.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:26 | 6574137 Horseless Headsman
Horseless Headsman's picture

Sounds like you need more lead to me

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 02:18 | 6573639 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Gold and Silver are so under owned in North America, that confiscation would be an expensive exercise in punishment this time around, more than a confiscation of wealth to allow money printing as it was 80 years ago.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:49 | 6573300 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

IRS say wat?

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:49 | 6573301 bitterwolf
bitterwolf's picture

Juvenile and luddite in nature.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:08 | 6573329 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Luddite can now be refined to 99.999 fine ludditanium.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:38 | 6573998 messymerry
messymerry's picture

Yeah, well, it's still not as valuable as Unobtainum...

;-D  

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:53 | 6573320 sysin3
sysin3's picture

The article would be much more persuasive if it were WRITTEN IN ENGLISH.

It somewhat resembles English, but it is not.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 22:54 | 6573324 khnum
khnum's picture

amazing the Feds haven't shut this down and confiscated everything yet

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:00 | 6573340 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Going back to fair market pricing?

  I'm still flabbergasted over the ratio of physical gold to paper gold. That's why I love Zero Hedge so much.

 I mean, not only are those ratios undeliverable, but the charts show how the ratios have grown exponentially over the last 5.6.7. years.

 Hey, I'm no conspiracy theorist, but if it walks, quacks, acts, like a duck... It's probably a duck?

Don't get me started on those triple levered copper contracts, in empty Chinese warehouses.

 "Would Mr. Dimon  & Blythe Masters please report to the board room of Satan & Cabal?"

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:17 | 6573381 TeethVillage88s
TeethVillage88s's picture

If it is not a personal Question:

What is the ratio of paper gold to real gold?

Real Gold seems to be about $1140 per OZ, but spot price is lower.

World Gold Council probably has published something I should search for.

Anti-Trust Gold Group likewise.

"one of his sources thinks the ratio of 100 pieces of paper to every real contract of (1) Gold is being expanded and could be up to as much as a 400 to 1 ratio."
Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/01/jb-slear-asks-is-the-paper-ratio-in-sil...

Well I guess there is no price for Paper gold like GLD.

But if there is 100 Time the paper demand for gold that exists, well I guess 11,400 is the minimum price... and up to 400 times.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:30 | 6573414 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Rather then going into miscellaneous constructs, I thought you might enjoy the actual article.

 Something Just Snapped At The Comex (Updated) | Zero Hedge

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:13 | 6573580 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

What is the ratio of paper gold to real gold?

 

"Just look at the Comex as an example.  The open interest in the Comex gold contract is 41 million ounces.  That equates to almost 1,300 tonnes or $50 billion.  But the Comex registered stocks of physical gold are only a mere $185 million.  Thus there are 250 times more paper gold positions on the Comex vs. the available physical inventory." M. Pento

 

http://kingworldnews.com/the-next-2-3-months-will-shock-the-world-as-a-s...

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:15 | 6573373 swass
swass's picture

So the only issue I have is that the storage fee they are charging is 5%. Is inflation really 5%? Maybe some things, but we're really in a period of disinflation right now.  Hope this idea takes off and we have real "banks" again. 

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:22 | 6573398 Basia
Basia's picture

Here is UPMA's Advisory Board.  Don't know enough if it is a trustworthy group.

https://upma.org/items/index/184/5

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:23 | 6573400 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Come on, really?  If there's no spread you might as well live in Cuba.

 Someone is being reciprocated, whether it's deferred payment, or swaping services for tangibles.

 Kinda like a P/M charitable trust.

  It's kinda like a [faux paux] black market.

  The Tylers have clearly published the spreads  between deliverable Au & Ag and the paper prices. There's no way any sane business person is going to absorb loses like that.

  Walk into any coin shop, and you'll get quoted Kitko BS or London  LBA close. If you walk out the door they will raise the offer because  the risk premium diminishes.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:14 | 6573837 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

There's a huge spread in public transportation in Cuba and actually 2 economies, one for you and one for the Cubans but both rigged with the .gov raking in the profits.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:29 | 6573412 alphahammer
alphahammer's picture

 

 

YOU CANNOT TRUST ANY GOLD ANYTHING! PAPER GOLD. CENTRAL BANK GOLD. FOR FUCKS SAKE UPMA GOLD "SCHEME". TRUST NONE OF IT!

Police charge man in fake Chinese gold artifact scam investigation

TORONTO — Police have arrested a 49-year-old man in connection with a fraud investigation that involved fake Chinese gold artifacts.

http://globalnews.ca/news/2224731/police-charge-man-in-fake-chinese-gold...

---

Grass Valley Jeweler Accused Of Selling Fake Gold, Silver Bars Could Face Tax Charges

August 31, 2015 11:51 PM

GRASS VALLEY (CBS13) — Prosecutors are saying a small-town jeweler is a big-time crook who sold bogus silver and gold bars to dozens of unsuspecting customers.

A gold bar looks pretty on the outside, but as John Engelhardt’s tester proves, the gleaming gold is only skin-deep. It’s a thin coating concealing a bar made of brass.

“Garbage,” he said. “There was a lot of people, a lot of people got burned—lotta old folks.”

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/08/31/grass-valley-jeweler-accused-o...

---

Sham gold trader who set up fake Mayfair company swindled would-be investors out of life savings

A sham gold trader who created a fake investment company and duped the elderly and vulnerable out of thousands of pounds has been jailed for two years.

Alan Taylor, of Garratt Lane in Tooting, claimed to run the fictional Mayfair-based gold investment company "European Gold Ventures Limited".

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/13719211.Sham_gold_trader_who_se...

---

Bank Duped on Loans by Gold Appraisers The New Indian Express-Aug 27, 2015 Superintendent of Police M N Anucheth said that 50 accounts of fake gold deposits were reported from the Doddapet branch and gold ...
Mon, 09/21/2015 - 04:13 | 6573713 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

 

alphahammer

"Member for 2 weeks 5 days"

so, mr. hammer, which financial institution or branch of the government do you work for?

if you buy gold or silver from a large reputable precious metals dealer, you won't have issues.

and, you do know that far, far, more fraud is committed using the US dollar, which is basically an IOU note from a deadbeat uncle (uncle sam), and isn't worth any more than the paper it's printed on?

well, don't take my word for it, you'll find out soon enough. the next 1-5 years will be quite an eye-opener, if you're not aware of what's going on in the financial world already. enjoy your new life in a soon to be 3rd-world banana republic.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 14:51 | 6575556 alphahammer
alphahammer's picture

 

Why do people put up that "member for weeks days" bullshit? What is that supposed to prove? Only people that have been on this site for greater than what -- 5 years can actually have an IQ and post factual information? Lol...

Anyhow, I work for no financial institution nor government. I certainly work in finance though. I know enough to plainly SEE this is a market full of chiselers and scammers that get air cover from people like you constantly telling everyone how "your only option is gold and silver when the bottom fals out" In fact, do YOU work for one of these boilere room fake gold operations? You do realize that you are giving them plenty of free positive advertising right?

Bottom line. If the world falls apart. Nobody will give a shit about gold. The important stuff will be food and shelter. You won't be able to trade gold for that because again what will be important primarily is food. The most tradable things will be cigarettes, booze and some medicines. You'd be better off with a pallet of mini bottles of vodka and scotch to barter with. 

This entire thing will unfold like collectable wine. The market for collectable wine is stuck in never never land because massive amounts of very expensive fake wine have flooded the market. The smart and knowledgable people that bought the fake wine are afraid of verifying if their wine is real because of the economic disaster and pure embarassment. THe market is frozen because nobody wants to buy potential fake and people are afraid of exposing their cellar is full of very expoensive fakes. A complete shit show. 

Collecting vintage Burgundies, Rudy Kurniawan drove the rare-wine market to new heights, then began selling his treasures. Or so it seemed. Michael Steinberger uncorks what may be the largest case of fine-wine fraud in history.

http://www.vanityfair.com/unchanged/2012/07/wine-fraud-rudy-kurniawan-vi...

And furthermore, reputable precuious metal dealers have also been hit. There is no safe area. Numismatic, bullion and even central banks are sitting on massive amounts of thsi shit.

Fake Gold Bars Turn Up in Manhattan NYC Breaking News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLekbvBCmUo

 

 

Tue, 09/22/2015 - 03:17 | 6577840 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

why? because in the vast majority of the cases where new zhers come in and start posting nonsense about gold, it's because they have a vested financial interest the broken, corrupt system. as upton sinclair put it, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" your involvement in finance is a case in point.

also, your comment that you made is dishonest, it is a lie. you, sir, are a liar:

"people like you constantly telling everyone how "your only option is gold and silver when the bottom fals out""

please show me where i ever said any such thing? you cannot, because i did not. you are lying.

there are highly precise instruments available to any precious metals dealers to detect fakes, that can detect any discrepancy in the metals they buy, they use sonar that penetrate all the way through gold and silver bars and coins, without having to drill. if you're really not aware of this fact, here is a 2-minute youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0Mcagio5Q

the scammers in the precious metals industry exist, but they are few and far between. in the financial industry, scammers, liars and cheats are much more prevalent, and at much larger scale, including large banks such as goldman sachs, jp morgan, citibank, wells fargo, barclays, BofA, and they constantly engage in a wide range of financial crimes against people, including rigging libor, engaging in mortgage backed securities fraud, laundering money for terrorists (both the usa gov and non-gov varieties) and violent drug cartels, rigging energy markets and precious metals markets, and of course outright bribery of politicians who are bought and sold wholesale.

i'm much more concerned about the widespread, constant crime spree committed by those in the financial industry, than by the occasional miscreant in the precious metals markets, which you won't even encounter if you do some due dilligence.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:31 | 6573417 wardawg12
wardawg12's picture

I'd only consider this once I knew honest price discovery was in place, similar to the response of villageteeth88's comment. Also don't want an intermitiate private bank in the middle of the deal. Still needs some work imo

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:33 | 6573422 luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

Way To Go...Utah!  Texas, get your Gold!

 

be ready to bloody some noses, in manhattan

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:35 | 6573429 Lin S
Lin S's picture

I guess we now know where Jade Helm 2016 is going to be staged, huh?

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:40 | 6573438 Farmer Joe in B...
Farmer Joe in Brooklyn's picture

...and now for the rub...

They, and you know who "they" are, can track physical ownership. Confiscation will be a turkey shoot.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:40 | 6573441 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

So... "spot" is still determined at the Comex den of fuggin' THIEVES???  What happens WHEN the Comex is busted and defaults, settles in cash and then closes?  Who/What determines "spot" then??

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 04:21 | 6573717 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

it's called the SGE.

and forget dollars per ounce, those are both archaic measurements that are going away, just like the fraudulent, bankrupt institutions which use those measurements. in the near future, gold will start to be reported primarily in yuan per kilo.

as obnoxious as china is, they actually have some incentive to support a market in which actual price discovery occurs, once they've finished draining western vaults of metal:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/27/gold-china-fix-idUSL4N0W04Z220...

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:50 | 6574014 messymerry
messymerry's picture

[yuan per kilo]

yuan per gram,,,

FTFY

;-D  

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:49 | 6573452 joego1
joego1's picture

I like it.

Sun, 09/20/2015 - 23:52 | 6573458 fishwharf
fishwharf's picture

This looks like a very good idea.  If the feds don't shut it down others will do it.  An example must be made of these usurpers who don't know their place.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:00 | 6573472 DaveA
DaveA's picture

Even if you could spend gold, why would you? Gresham's Law says that bad money drives out the good because people spend their worst money first and save the best for last. Only when the "bad money" has lost all purchasing power does the second-worst money begin to circulate.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:00 | 6573474 Spungo
Spungo's picture

Didn't Peter Schiff have a scheme like this? You can have a bank account denominated in gold?

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:35 | 6573528 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Indeed he did. I opened an account. Trouble was the exhorbitant wire and transaction fees (for me at least as an international customer)  Opened the account with a $100 deposit. $25 in wire fees to put money in rattled me, then the balance gone in a few months from account keeping fees - not to mention the arduous paperwork required to "prove" where every deposit came from (US banking regulations apparently)  No good as an everyday transaction alternative for weekly wages etc... which defeated the whole purpose. I was alaways going to keep my 'savings' in physical.

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:04 | 6573483 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Psst. This is nothing special, and same for Texas depository, because the US Gov has agreed to use Asset Backed Currencies with the rest of the world... so all money will be backed, and that is the most likely reason these state side attempts are not being prevented. New bills should be from the UST, not the FED.

Anyway, wait for the announcements, when they happen, shouldn't be too long. They may just roll out the new bills without any fanfare and wait for people to just get used to them. I think this is also why Jack Lew was talking about revamping the US Currency. Lew's new currency may be a separate deal though.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:02 | 6574052 messymerry
messymerry's picture

This is not  happening, I for one do not believe that the United States currently has the assets to back their currency with anything more than threats and promises.  My guess, there's 250 people laying claiim to every ounce of gold in the U.S.s possession. It's going to be one GIGANTIC CLUSTER**** when they come to collect...

;-D  

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:17 | 6573505 redwater
redwater's picture

NSA data centers located in gold-friendly Utah.

The Deep State needed to make sure their spy aparatus survives a financial collapse.

Boot on your neck - forever.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:55 | 6573557 Late onset ADHD
Late onset ADHD's picture

true that... vichy white shirt complicits, all...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 09:07 | 6574065 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Lotta sand out there, might get sucked into the generators.  No power.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:29 | 6573516 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Gresham's Law still applies. 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:29 | 6573518 dumby
dumby's picture

"pay your taxes ..."

 

Really?

The word "Taxes" is different from "theft", "robbery"?

Really?

 

And the word "your" - really, does it apply to theft?

If so, how so?

Please explain.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 08:26 | 6573976 Victor von Doom
Victor von Doom's picture

I'd say taxes are actually closest to extortion. They don't steal your fiat - you know they're coming. They don't point a gun at you or use violence. They threaten to.

taxation = extortion

Legal extortion I hear you say. What the hell is legal? What the lawyers say? 

Now that's a laugh.

What the thugs with the guns enforce more like.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:31 | 6573520 fiddlerpaul
fiddlerpaul's picture

Bitgold has this for everyone all over the US and Canada, though not with silver.
They only charge 1% over spot and they are coming out with a debit card that carries no transaction fees.
Solid company invested in by Soros, Sprott and James Turk..recently merged with Goldmoney.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:34 | 6573521 Late onset ADHD
Late onset ADHD's picture

something wicked this way comes...

if it origins in UTAH... run the fuck away...

systemic carnival-scammers central... let's all play "spot" the discovery price... LMAO...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:45 | 6573538 Late onset ADHD
Late onset ADHD's picture

and thanks for the immediate negative tick from the upma of utah...

go drink some salt water while you bid for your missing chromosome on ebay, fucknut...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:40 | 6573609 Late onset ADHD
Late onset ADHD's picture

must be nationalist utah "if it's all white, it's all right nite" on zh...

is this article a troll net or what?...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:49 | 6573535 Element
Element's picture

No one trades fruit and steaks for gold and it's measure of comparative value is USD.

But it's independently and innately 'money' ... in some unique way?

Makes sense ... either that ... or it's an interesting fundamentalist belief system, continuously pushed on people by sellers of gold.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 10:04 | 6574265 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

If I had the choice to buy something with fiat or gold, I'm going to choose to pay in fiat. Conversely if I have a choice to charge someone and demand payment in gold or fiat, I'm going to choose to accept only gold.

 What would you choose, genius? 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 00:50 | 6573544 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

It would be interesting to know how increases in gold value in dollar are accounted? Do you have to pay taxes on any gain?

Only one ounce US Coins?

What I would like is to deposit previously purchased gold into those accounts and then use them as money......

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:12 | 6573579 Late onset ADHD
Late onset ADHD's picture

no gains due until they dime your name and ssn to mitigate their sentencing...

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 01:09 | 6573562 Late onset ADHD
Late onset ADHD's picture

how's this for a bunch of creepy mofos...

https://upma.org/items/index/184/5

yep I want to do business with Marquis of Breifne... momos still slumming with the master race 70+ years later... same as it ever was...

 

run run run run, run away...

 

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 03:25 | 6573684 prymythirdeye
prymythirdeye's picture

True dat.  Wouldn't trust this bunch of yahoos with $.50

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 06:25 | 6573773 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

WTF? What's this BIO even mean???

Lady Monica studied English language and French at the Eberhard-Karls University in Tuebingen in the Southwest of Germany. During the 80’s she started her career in sales and marketing and worked for several international companies.

In 2008 she helped to create a social network on the internet, brought 70,000 members to this platform and was responsible for the European Division and the online payment section.

Within “World Gold” she supports her son and founder Lord Marcel, in Sales and Marketing. Lady Monica is a highly skilled communicator and has an extended global network through her previous work for international companies. She is an expert in sales and marketing, business networking and employee training.

As Chamberlain of the Royal Court of Breifne, Lady Monica also cares about all international affairs of her cousins, HRH Prince Martin and HRH Princess Ingrid of Breifne. Currently they encompass the film project of Lord Martin's trilogy about Nobility as well as the development of an exceptional social network of like-minded people who work together to support the positive development of our world, selected and controlled social projects.

As a family person, she is a happy mother of five children and two grandchildren.

Mon, 09/21/2015 - 07:04 | 6573822 Zero-Coupon Per...
Zero-Coupon Perpetual Bond's picture

Lady Monica of the Royal Court of Breifne?

 

I don't know what their "monarcy" controls, but you can view their members here... http://royalcourtofbreifne.com/members/.  Questionable looking bunch.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!