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Bailout World: Volkswagen "Cheating" Fine Is 20 Times Higher Than GM's For 'Killing 174 People'
When bailout-darling GM 'fessed up to an intentional ignition-switch defect, tied to at least 174 deaths, The Justice Department fined them $900 million (and no employees faced criminal charges). So, in this consequence-less world in which we live, when Volkswagen admits to literally cheating emissions-standards tests, it faces up to $18 billion in fines from The EPA, one has to wonder whether "we" have our priorities right?
VW shares have been monkey-hammered this morning after the "cheating" scandal was exposed...
As The Washington Post reports,
For hiding a fatal ignition-switch defect tied to at least 174 deaths, General Motors employees will face no criminal charges and the automaker will pay a $900 million fine — less than a third of its $2.8 billion in profit last year.
The settlement with the Department of Justice, announced Thursday, signals a close to the criminal investigation that has long tarnished the car giant. But critics say the automaker got off easy for mishandling one of the worst auto safety crises in history, and years of lying to safety regulators and leaving Americans at risk.
“I have a saying about GM: There’s no problem too big that money can’t solve,” said Clarence Ditlow, executive director of the Center for Auto Safety. GM “is buying [its] way out of a criminal prosecution.”
GM’s penalty is also less than the record-setting $1.2 billion fine levied on Toyota last year after the Japanese car giant failed to recall cars that could suddenly accelerate, even though federal regulators say the defect has been linked to at least five deaths.
So, as The Telegraph reports, VW could face huge fines if it is found to have violated America’s Clean Air Act, as US watchdogs claimed it has done. The EPA has the power to impose a $37,500 penalty per vehicle in contravention of law, meaning VW could face a theoretical penalty of $18bn for the 482,000 cars affected.
Allegations first surfaced late on Friday that America’s Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) believed VW fitted “defeat devices” to almost 500,000 of its diesel cars sold in the US.
According to the watchdog, these pieces of software sensed when a car was being tested for the amount of pollution it produced and activated full emissions controls.
However, the EPA claims that during normal driving, emissions control systems were not as effective, meaning cars pumped out far more pollutants, such Nitrous Oxides (NOx), which have been linked to serious respiratory diseases.
...
Having initially remained quiet after news broke, other than to say it was co-operating with the US authorities, VW broke its silence yesterday with Mr Winterkorn saying he was “personally deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public”.
Mr Winterkorn, who only recently won a power struggle that saw Ferdinand Piech ousted as VW chairman, added that “the trust of our customers and the public is and continues to be our most important asset” and that VW “does not and will not tolerate violations of any kind of our internal rules or of the law”.
It appears, Volkswagen needs to "spend" a little more to ensure its immunity.
Or implement another mega squeeze in the stock and crush everyone....
Back in 2008, Volkswagen briefly became the most expensive stock in the world on what would become the case study of an epic short squeeze when following some (malicious) capital structure drama, the short interest became greater than the total outstanding float, sending the stock up 500% in a few short weeks. German billionaire Adolf Merckle committed suicide as a result.
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Yes. Humans bad. CO2 bad.
Less humans good. Less co2 good.
Less humans good, less C02 irrelevant except it provides a good cover story for the "less humans" agenda.
And isn't it FEWER humans?
$18 Billion is years worth of profits from VW NA.
I wonder if they say, you know, maybe NA isn't a place we want to invest more capital.
A small business owner through bad management allows his company to ship peanut butter laced with salmonella. 9 people died. He may face life in prison for letting this happen.
General Motors kills 174 people through similarly bad management. There is no criminal prosecution, only a slap-on-the-wrist fine.
Toyota likewise, through bad management and poor bug testing, kills maybe 1 person (? correct me here), for their cruise control software, mostly a slap-on-the-wrist fine, no criminal trial.
VW has software that alters emissions based on whether or not it's being tested. I applaud the nascar-like "beating-the-system" attitude myself. However the government decides they need to be fined to levels not seen since the Deepwater Horizon disaster.
And the elites think we should take the law seriously?
How about they all go to jail. For fucks sake people, you can't use other bullshit outcomes to say that this asshole company doesn't deserve severe punishment. They make shitty cars anyway.
Another "hair on fire" piece,
That is the maximum possible fine. The recall is on, and the actual fine will be far less.
This is why we bought a VW. That and the fact they don't spy on you... yet.
I'd like to point out that the original GM "fine" was the entire company. The bond holders at the time reallly took a jailhouse tryst sans lube. So $18 biggies, all though a tidy sum, is not more than what GM shareholders and bond holders lost. The reason the "New GM", (union owned), got off so lightly should be obvious.
Exactly. Purely an estimate, which equates to what is essentially more per car than (on average) the cars were purchased for. Never going to happen.
They make outstanding cars. They smoke the competition in every class that they compete in, and that is the reason for this bullshit recall. Go to jail? Youre insane.
I have one of these 2.0 diesels and love it, great car, been trouble free to now (82k+ miles). If they recall for a Rube Goldberg patch that saps power and/or mileage not going to take it in. Question is will I then be the criminal the epa nazi's go after.
Yeah, but it's nice to see some cracks in that oh so high and mighty German superiority.
+1000
"And the elites think we should take the law seriously?"
Situational application of statute: over-charging/punishing or under charging/punishing depending on the defendant.
Be safe, be smart.
Why did Germans ever think they'd get a fair deal in Israel anyway?
So what happened to the EPA for poisoning a River?
Job security!
Why is this fine thing so hard to comprehend........US automaker = small fine and Foreign automaker = big fine
Works the same as with the banks too so the whole system is quite consistent.
And one has to wonder whether the real reason for this event is the US putting pressure on the German government to accept jihadifugees
bingo
So what happened to the EPA for poisoning a River?
Nothing, public sector privilege. Some low-level functionary may or may not have had his desk moved to the basement.
Big government thugs from the EPA are punishing VW NA for not hiring union thugs at VW's plants in the U.S.
Meanwhile, Gina McCarthy, the mean looking dyke with the butch haircut who was appointed by Obama to head the EPA, gets to keep her job after the EPA poisoned rivers in three states.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/08/13/geologist-predicted-e...
just bought a VW diesel wagon, i get 1000km/600mi per tank, great car
i guess it's ironic they're cheating on the emissions test, but their vehicles can go 1/2 way across North America on a single tank.
600 miles? That's barely 1/3 of the way from Maine to Miami.
He don't get out much.
Whoopee dee fucking doo! You get 45 miles to a gallon and the diesel costs 25% more than gasoline. Oh, and it pollutes the fuck out of my country. Take your Kraut shit cars and send them back to the fatherland or ship them to China.
Your country? I'm glad you are the deciding entity for the entire population.
Did a mean old Audi smoke your Prius ass this morning?
Lay the crackpipe at your feet and back away from the keyboard.
They are getting that mileage because they are cheating on the emissions.
If they had to meet specs (not saying anything about the specs themselves) the mileage would be a lot lower.
Still, that kind of fine would be more suited to, say, selling aborted baby parts to buy a lambo.
Forgot we are in Wonderland though.
pods
600 miles will only get you halfway across Texas.
If you don't go insane driving across it first.
by definition, if they get the better mileage than other cars, they pollute less than other cars, epa test or no. You can't tell me chevrolet doesn't do the same with it's diesel cars.
2600 miles is the shortest coast-to-coast route.
You looking at the right map? Shortest route I see is Houston to San Diego, about 1400 miles.... It's a little over 1200 miles just to cross the province on Ontario.
Does it really matter? I pay 0.10/km, or just under 0.20/mi, same as my last car. Wake me up when fuel efficiency is a reality.
This is what happens when your nation asks for its BARBAROUS RELICS back.
The nipponese know better and understand 'vassalage' even more so than Canadians. (trying telling that to a canuck and he will start waving a maple leaf shouting "go leafs, go")
Funny, I voted you up. We're - Canadians - resigned to living next to the biggest bully on the block, doesn't mean we enjoy it. Oh, and GO HABS GO!
<--- $18 billion in the government coffers, baby!
<--- Less than $18 billion. Like A LOT LESS.
Some body was having a bad hair and maff day when they proposed that fine for passing emmision compliance as regulated.
Smarties always get around regulation.
http://www.autoanything.com/performance-chips/10A50207.aspx
vw is less jew owned than gm
did you know that gm owned opel was payed reparations by usa after usa bombed the factorys of opel in nazi germany?
so let's change the joke to how many jews can you fit in a Chevy Malibu...
120000 will fit in the ashtray
Over 600 Gorillions.
Makes me want to buy one of those VWs before they fix the "problem". Screw the EPA.
That's exactly what I was thinking- those must be some damned good cars if the EPA wants them all crushed.
Bluemotions get nearly 80 mpg.
A somewhat embarrassing number to the government, in many ways.
Sorry, immediate stop sale on units in stock and epa not certifying 2016 model year diesels
Nein, nein, nein!
VAG needs to tell USEPA to suck a bag of dicks.
There is a BIG difference: GM lied to the sheeple, VW lied to a government agency.
It's not nice to fool with mother nature government.
Didn't GM lie to regulators and Congress? Maybe I'm wrong.
Zee Germans can afford anything
GerMONEY for all! Come on down! Syrians, Africans, Afghanis, Israelies, Polocks, Americans, everyone! Free German money for all!
I'm sure we can just keep a little gold we were just going to send back... Oh well, take that gold off the pallets boys, back in the vault..
GM does not make money and is a US company. VW makes money and is a German company, as simple as that. You can not take from where nothing can be taken, even when 1000 people die.
Are you all really THIS DUMB???
GM = UAW = long time friend of democratic party = lots of blue team votes.
Toyota/VW are foreign companies. No votes or lobbying dollars to politicians, which makes them the ideal target for extortion.
International data streams hold more "gold" than Sutter's Creek.
No fahrvergnügen for you !
I heard this from that Lord Mockton cat:
The Greens are too Yellow to admit they're really Red.
Stop selling VW's in the US.
Isn't that like Fiat (car company) not selling cars in the US?
Paging The Narrator...
RE: GM sham DOJ settlement (a bailout by any other name).
For f*cking chrissake!!!!!! There was a 1991 movie with Gene Hackman entitled "Class Action" concerning the auto industry. It was built around the very same shit that GM did with actuarial tables in determining costs of settlements vs recall etc, etc.
These motherf*cking blockheads at the DOJ accomplish so little that they f*cking probably had time to watch "Class Action" at work if not at home. And I'm sure all the f*cking execs at GM did as well. F*CKERS !!!!!!!!!!
But it's General Motors............. BS - (taxpayer supported coporate welfare baby)
GM is one of the selected who don't pay taxes, so just another case of Big Bro affection.
http://americasmarkets.usatoday.com/2014/08/12/20-big-profitable-u-s-companies-paid-0-taxes/
Who runs America and how do they feel about VW? How many of "them" will even ride in a VW? And there's your answer as to why VW and all German companies for that matter are not places to put your money.
For some, bailouts aren't enough and they need to resort to extortion. Behold, the end of the steel industry in Canada.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/us-steel-canada-threatens-to-shut-operations-if-court-rejects-request/article26429507/
My daughter has a VW Jetta - it was about $15K
My wife an Acura TL - it was over way $30K 2+ X the Jetta
After driving both - my wife said she liked the Jetta over her Acura -
We have been considering getting a Touareg - this may be an opportunity to get a great deal on one.
The TL may be Honda's worst car ever. As a former owner I can safely say it was a POS. I have only ever owned one VW, a 1989 Golf. It was an absolute beast that refused to die.
On the drive home from the dealership - the passenger seat started to rattle - very annoying- I had the thing in for an oil change and I ask them to fix the rattle. They couldn't -
After about 15,000 miles of rattle - I got out the tools - took the seat out and put some rubber washers in between the bolts and the seat.
Solved the problem - cost me $1.
I will give the TL this - it got over 30 MPG on the highway and the brakes were top notch.
But if you ever stomped on the gas you had better be hanging on to the steering wheel with both hands - worst torque steer I have ever experienced.
We only kept it a couple years - one of the few cars I have ever had that I was glad to be rid of -
I had an 09 Acura TL with the all wheel drive. Amazing grip. Damn that car was fun to drive.
Then I put a stop sign through the engine block. Not so fun after that.
Glad you're ok, but next time try using a stop sign that fits
Dick Bove just showed up on CNBC. Time to short financials.
That's literally 3 years of after tax profits for all of VW. Better to just withdraw from the American auto market entirely.
Hope n Chains.
Those fucking Nazi's.
Those fucking EPA Nazi's.
There, fixed it for you
I'll let you know when something I say needs fixing. I don't ride bandwagons.
Those fucking JERB KILLING Nazi's.
Whine on, son. I love when those downvote lips run out.
Those fucking DOWNVOTE Nazi's.
No, I like down voters, I like to see how many I piss off. Not many this time because this is a thread with only 2 pages and half the posts are us and it's almost off the first page of ZH. So that tells me nobody really gives a shit. Nothings illegal until you get caught. I do give the Krauts credit for the evil genius of it. I doubt the fine will stand.
ILLINOIS Nazis?
blackmail in order for Germans to support US sanctions.
I do not understand anyhow why foreign firms do business in the USA with these biased fines.
did anyone check to see if american car companies have the same software ?
lol - wouldn't occur to them.
VW should pull all NA manufacturing.
Hand over an IOU then vote with their feet….. resell under the Subaru nameplate.
Anyone consider the irony that we're trying to scrub oxides out of diesel exahust, the same sulfur nitrogen oxides that were the basis for worrying about global cooling in the 70s?
Secret Zyklon B.
GM is American, VW is German.
TSLA launching Model X on Sept 29. I smell a TSLA top coming.
See what happens when you don't contribute to the Clinton foundation?
G.M. is a big part of the American War Machine.......Double Standards and Lies......is the American Way. Fuck all them, Oh.Ya.....the Government is only the Commoner doesn't see or BeLIEve.
I now drive my VW with pride.
Go lookup Nissan Skyline import US FBI, to understand how insane this govt. is about cars that can't pass US rules. Watch Porsche prices if VW leaves the States.
You kidding me? I would bet less than one in a hundred (1000?) sheeple know that VW is the parent of Porsche,Audi,Bentley,Lamborghini,Bugatti,Seat, Skoda, Ducati, MAN and Scania, probably missed some. So why would this affect Porsche?
Blackmail makes the world swirl around the toilet. VW is prolly being strong armed. The question is why?
This could be a nice way to make some coin. BTFD! Not a good idea to piss off VW when they could mop the floor with everybody. That XL1 concept/platform? Ya budy that car is no joke. VW could simply mass produce those for sale cheap. Put a gas turbo 4 banger with a CVT and a simple flywheel regenerative braking system in that car. Tipping the industry on its head.
Easy money. jmo
Why is it I see diesel trucks, buses, and trains polluting like crazy with billowing gobs of black smoke and I suppose they pass the EPA emissions tests? Give me a break.
Because, actually, NOX (what VW was getting away with putting into the atmosphere) is INVISIBLE.
So trucks and buses don't emit NOx when running? Must be different fuel then. Oh there's much looser standards for trucks and buses who can polllute 100 times more the new clean diesel car technology but that's ok I suppose. EPA=Extort & Pilfer Agency.
Think this hurts Germany ? Wait till everyone finds out that Airbus's just fall out of the sky due to a software glitch.
Volkswagen was only find $900 million for cheating.
The other $17.1 billion was for running (edit:) making a profit from non-union shops in right to work states.
If the NLRB can't get you, the EPA will!
Moar justice!
Is this what happens when your workers refuse to join the UAW? Remember, not too long ago there was a vote and the rank and file decided they didn't want to be the next Detroit.
Don't forget that European Banks were also fined Billions just because they traded with Iran ...
And US Big Banks stole Trillions and didn't even get slapped on the wrist !
From 2008 : Alexander Morris
STEALING TRILLIONS TO MAKE A FEW MILLIONS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG8RLZn678I
How is this news? The lefties have been telling us for 30 years that fixing any and all pollution matters more than the day to day lives of human beings.
VW is Germans. FORD is yours.
Who has the lobbyist in your lawmaker & govt??
it faces up to $18 billion in fines from The EPA, one has to wonder whether "we" have our priorities right?
Hand slapping is the emerging source for new government financing. It's been largely used in looking the other way while Wall Street fleeces main street. They fine about 10% on the ill-gotten-gains, leaving substantial profit for the perps in the process.
They may be outsmarting themselves with this one. VW probably gained almost nothing from their alledged flawed compliance testing. Knowing typical government regulation practices, the rules are probably so complicated, vague, and ambiguous, no one is in compliance ... VW is just the first test case.
If it works it's going to be dynamite for ongoing government expansion and invasiveness. The monster must be fed.
The fine has not been set,but you can be sure it will be a lot bigger than the GM one.The fedral govenment seems to have found a new revenue stream.They are actually happy to see the law broken by the ones that have deep pockets,especially when they are foreign companies.
Diesel engine emissions, nitrogen oxide and fine particulates, kill far more people worldwide than ignition switches ever have, or ever could.
and American cigarette manufacturers have killed 10x the amount that diesel engine exhaust has, but they are American.
You got the quasi right
Don't worry, boys. When FIAT buys GM, it too will have to pay a huge, disproportionate fine.
Perhaps VW can mitigate their losses with Syrian slave labor. It worked for founder, Ferdinand Porsche.
Back in the day
More ZH lies. VW COULD face a large fine, but we have no idea what it is yet. ZH is so full of bullshit.
Still better than working
I was listening to a podcast on a road trip this weekend. They were discussing a car startup to make a $7000, ~80mpg trike. The were trying to get a $150 million DOE advanced vehicle loan, but the process was taking a long time and people are beginning to think the whole thing is a scam.
I guess they didn't realize that the DOE loan was intended as a handout for GM to finance the Volt, aka "the car that will save GM" and since innovation was never the goal they will be waiting indefinitely for that sweet sweet government dosh.
They went after Volkswagen because Merkel started talking about putting controls on the "refugee crisis". It happened right after she was talking about putting more controls out. This is how nations and leaders are being blackmailed.
Or maybe they don't pay and tell the EPA to fuck off, ban all american cars in Germany?