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Ron Paul Rages: Don't Blame America, Blame The Neocon Interventionists For The Syrian Catastrophe
Submitted by Ron Paul via The Ron Paul Institute for Peace & Prosperity,
Is the current refugee crisis gripping the European Union “all America’s fault”? That is how my critique of US foreign policy was characterized in a recent interview on the Fox Business Channel. I do not blame the host for making this claim, but I think it is important to clarify the point.
It has become common to discount any criticism of US foreign policy as “blaming America first.” It is a convenient way of avoiding a real discussion. If aggressive US policy in the Middle East – for example in Iraq – results in the creation of terrorist organizations like al-Qaeda in Iraq, is pointing out the unintended consequences of bad policy blaming America? Is it “blaming America” to point out that blowback – like we saw on 9/11 – can be the result of unwise US foreign policy actions like stationing US troops in Saudi Arabia?
In the Fox interview I pointed out that the current refugee crisis is largely caused by bad US foreign policy actions. The US government decides on regime change for a particular country – in this case, Syria – destabilizes the government, causes social chaos, and destroys the economy, and we are supposed to be surprised that so many people are desperate to leave? Is pointing this out blaming America, or is it blaming that part of the US government that makes such foolish policies?
Accusing those who criticize US foreign policy of “blaming America” is pretty selective, however. Such accusations are never leveled at those who criticize a US pullback. For example, most neocons argue that the current crisis in Iraq is all Obama’s fault for pulling US troops out of the country. Are they “blaming America first” for the mess? No one ever says that. Just like they never explain why the troops were removed from Iraq: the US demanded complete immunity for troops and contractors and the Iraqi government refused.
Iraq was not a stable country when the US withdrew its troops anyway. As soon as the US stopped paying the Sunnis not to attack the Iraqi government, they started attacking the Iraqi government. Why? Because the US attack on Iraq led to a government that was closely allied to Iran and the Sunnis could not live with that! It was not the US withdrawal from Iraq that created the current instability but the invasion. The same is true with US regime change policy toward Syria. How many Syrians were streaming out of Syria before US support for Islamist rebels there made the country unlivable? Is pointing out this consequence of bad US policy also blaming America first?
Last year I was asked by another Fox program whether I was not “blaming America” when I criticized the increasingly confrontational US stand toward Russia. Here’s how I put it then:
I don't blame America. I am America, you are America. I don't blame you. I blame bad policy. I blame the interventionists. I blame the neoconservatives who preach this stuff, who believe in it like a religion -- that they have to promote American goodness even if you have to bomb and kill people.
In short, I don’t blame America; I blame neocons.
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ask not what isreal can do for you, ask what you can do for isreal
I don't want to blame them, I want to curse them
They are cursed and their time for payment is now.
you can see it all over the place, they even must flee Europe due to this
mass migration of Muslims into Europe.
Europe will be liberated of their control.
Just wait...
Those who point out obvious flaws in US government policies don't hate America, they care for America. Would anyone claim that a man who fixes his roof hates his home? Would one who loves his home simply let the roof leak until it caved in?
We got termites bad
They build little tunnels inside the walls like Dick Cheney hiding out in an undisclosed location.
They build little tunnels inside the walls like Valerie Jarrett hiding out in an undisclosed location.
Sorry Ron,
I do blame America. It's not that most of its people are bad or evil, they are not. But they are unwilling to dig further than what our politicians tell them. They are willing to support wars without the visceral realization of what that means for people, because it is somewhere else. Somebody else is fighting, and the majority of those who are fighting have been duped, and even if they now realize what they are doing, they know, and rightfully so, that an outright refusal to follow orders will have serious consequences. They don't know what national security issues they are really fighting for. The average American has at least one of two faults in this: They are too stupid to learn at least part of what is going on, or they do not want to know what is going on. Ignorance is bliss. Until it steals the food from your table.
Ron blames the neocons like they are members of Congress, when the fact is that the marching orders come from the CFR and the Tri-Lateral Commission... The good ole Rockefellers and Rothschilds pulling the strings, as always...
Ron Paul is an Idiot, as is anyone else who mindlessly repeats American Socialist Party slurs and name calling like "neocon"....just a fucking idiot......It sure cheapens the message when you preach American socialist party propaganda and name calling.
IF YOU WANT TO SAY JEW ASSHOLE WHO DOES NOT VOTE DEMOCRAT, PUT ON YOUR FUCKING BIG BOY PANTS AND SAY IT.....You fools do know what NeoCon means right?.
Thank you for your AMAZING contribution to the thread.
No, thank YOU for cowering like a sniveling pussy in the face of facts you cannot refute.....
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=neocon+etymology
And what a bunch of ignorant pussies you other down arrowers are......How cowardly!
Hey tough guy, I hope you are posting this from a desert in the Middle East, otherwise STFU
It's not necessarily what you said, it's how you said it.
Dindu Nuffin - cracker edition
To the guy who lost his family in the fly-by strafing of the wedding party, it makes as little difference as it did to the gang banger operating the drone.
Spot on El Vaquero
Yes, it's the US government that is responsible for these destabilizing wars and regime changes, nevertheless it's the American people that 1) elected these neo-cons/libs into office in the first place and 2) put up with all their fuck ups once in office.
The next complete incompetent idiot and 'bull in the china store' Donnie Trump (with all his banker buddies who keep his real estate 'empire' afloat with cheap loans and ZIRP, and who will be pulling his strings once he is in office) is ready to be elected and judging by the overwhelming support here on ZH, people would be content with a total charlatan (4x bankrupt!) and clown like him in the White House.
After 8 years of Republicans like George W Bush and 8 more years of Democrats like Barrack Hussain Obama, you'd guess that the self-proclaimed "smart and intelligent" readership of ZeroHedge would not fall into the same trap, but hey, apparently even ZH-ers can be dumb and naive enough to think that "this time it's different."
It's hope that dies last, so keep on hoping bitchezzz! Keep on hoping that China will bail out your gold purchases, keep on hoping for $10000 gold and a gold-backed Yuan, and at the same time keep on hoping (just like that redneck idiot Karl Denninger and his sidekick Bill Still) that Trump with his "negotiating skills" and his banking buddies will flip the middle finger to China and make all problems disappear.
Americans are lazy and gullible, and truly believe everything they see on TV, from lying politicians to 'magical 5 minutes/day' work-out equipment that will turn you into a buff supermodel within 30 days or your money back guarantee.
It's all for freedom and democracy, that's why the Americans don't care beyond that! It's a just cause that you don't question for fear of being unpatriotic!
Like John McCain getting chased off of the Navajo Indian Reservation in Window Rock, AZ.
How is it the neocons if it was all done under the Obama administration? Unless we're calling both parties neocons now (which is fine, they both act the same, might as well label them the same thing).
come on man pay attention..........this is deep-state 101
Because Nuu, firstly, he was mentored by Joe Lieberman and secondly, he surrounded himself with people like Dennis Ross and Robert Kagan and his loveless wife Victoria, king and queen of the neocons. Small wonder his policies are what they are, nothing to with D and R.
Nothing to do with D and R and even here, in this sacred citadel of knowing, /s people still can't get it. The resolution of all these problems could take a while.
It's those darn Inuits. Or Amish. I forget which.
Ron is laying out the timeline: Us invades Iraq causing internal upheaval - Al Qaeda establishes itself in Iraq -- AQI spreads into Syria and destabilizes that country -- AQI morphs into ISIS -- The US, Turkey and the Gulf States fund ISIS and cause further destabilization on their own (Turkey v. Kurds, for example) under cover of fighting both ISIS and Assad --Refugees flee the region.
But it was Obama who absolutely insisted that Assad had to go.
I recognize that chemical weapon use is a major problem, but if you're going to get your hands dirty doing dirty deeds to try to undermine a bad bad dictator, then you're just going to invite a whole lotta shit on the voters who voted you into office.
Frankly, I would have let Assad do whatever he did.
The middle east needs the wake-up call of the U.S. not interfering anymore, let those populations see what it takes to keep fuck-tards out of power in their own backyard.
Besides which, the regimes we've supported over there are mostly artificial and destabilizing in their own way, so why should I trust our judgement of the regimes we don't like?
There was already a list of countries targeted for overthrow in 2001 and Syria was on the list.
Earlier than the. Project for a New American Century laid out a hit list of regimes to overthrow...... Afghanistan...well, sport of, Iraq... tried - didn't work out so well, Libya... check, Iran... still a no-go despite numerous tries to get a war going, Syria... sure trying, I thik there were 11 countries in all
The neocons also believe that it the DUTY of America to use its power to dominate the world and maintain its control - over, well, everything - ESPECIALLY energy supplies..... of course supporting Israel and maintaining its dominance in the region is all part of the overall plan as well.
Funny how all of this has only WEAKENED the US - cost TRILLIONS and made enemies for life of hundreds of thousands... we've CREATED far more 'terrorists' that we've killed because all the innicent lives we've taken, all the countries we've destabilized and made a mess of BREED a hatred of the US... blowback to the nth degree
+ one million. That is a great post.
"Frankly, I would have let Assad do whatever he did."
Weird. Who and what Bashir al Assad is/was is no secret, and, with the internet, anyone with the slightest interest can find out all they need to know in about five, maybe ten, minutes.
In short, whether Assad would be considered a stand up guy by Western standards, the fact is that Syria under Assad was about the best place in the region for any people or faith to live. No group was allowed to subjugate another. All were treated the same by the government. Etc. It appeared that government had at least some interest in the wellbeing of the country and its people.
America under the leadership of someone like Bashir al Assad would be a far different and better place than it now is.
Which is, of course, why he had to go. That and the fact that the usual suspects wanted to do something with his country that he didn't want done.
At any rate, I honestly do not understand why so many seem to think that Bashir al Assad is some kind of monster like Caligula or Pol Pot. He's a London educated eye doctor, for God's sake, and probably a nicer, more decent guy than most of our neighbors, and certainly so if you live in Detroit.
They said, as in the media said, a lot of things about Gadaffi. How many of them were true? Do the Libyans wish they could go back to the way things were under Gadaffi? Of course they do.
Poor Gadaffi had to serve as an example of just what kind of deeds or crimes Zato is capable of commiting.
"Poor Gadaffi" ??!!
He was a total weirdo psycho murderer, who was killed off by other weirdo psycho murderers. But you want to idolize him now as a great loss to Libya? OK, whatever.
In physics there is a concept called "The Arrow of Time" ... and it points in one direction always. And things that occur are generally partly or completely irreversible, once they occur.
And that is why you should not believe lies, and should carefully test things, to see if they are real or verifiable, long before you buy into stuff, and make a great irreversible choice, that you regret making, but can't do anything about any more.
This is a concept Merkel and Germans and Europe are in the process of re-discovering - basically, that dumbness and believing sappy bullshit from demented liars, and not using forethought, planning and reality-checking stories and claims, turns out really, really badly.
Which is why listening to, and adopting, and spreading propaganda messages, is the work of stupid moron idiot-fucks, who do great harm to people, often deliberately, then suddenly want to back-out of it, and find they can't any more, and nor can anyone else.
These people I would spare humanity.
And btw, the general disorder in Libya now, I predicted well in advance of combat taking place, and it was made totally obvious the moment the morons with the guns said they were never going to negotiate the removal of Gadaffi, they just wanted to smash shit and kill people.
Well boo-hoo for Libya now. That's what you get for listening to liars and utter idiots, and Islamic dickwads and playing up to saviors and messiahs (in Washington, Moscow, or UN), and allowing them to do irreversible things, creating chaos and disorder for all, where prior was a high level of order and function for all.
The lesson is, don't listen to morons who would have you believe any old thing they pull out of their arse. Test, demand hard verification of claims, don't do shit or make decisions without it - ever.
Don't ever get stampeded into choices by the agents of propaganda, lies and chaos.
Check shit out first. If it does not check-out then auto-reject it. No exceptions.
Nuke the bullshit from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
For the US, Syria is about choking off Russia. That's why they've moved in and Kerry's changing his tune. Even the backfiring Iranian sanctions were at least partially aimed at blocking the Russkies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/world/middleeast/russian-moves-in-syri...
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/0919/John-Kerry-Assad-ha...
http://www.alternet.org/story/36881/cheney_starts_new_cold_war_over_oil"Syria is about choking off Russia."
Syria was one of the countries on the list for the Arab Spring. The fact that destabilizing Syria, Russia's ally in the ME was a bonus as the neocons see it.
" so why should I trust our judgement of the regimes we don't like?"
Why ? Because we use reasoning to arrive at our judgements. Even tho we may not have access to secret privileged information, we know better than to wish death and misfortune on civilians as compared to the scumbags in the Administration and Congress.
Assad at his worst cannot compare with politicians sprouting democracy and human rights and then recruiting and financing a whole bunch of blood thirsty savages murdering unarmed innocents in Syria.
...the U.S. not interfering anymore... (if only) the MIC would never let that happen, it wouldn't be good for profits. Who gives a fuck how many die or are displaced, wall street and corporate profits baby is the neocon religion, now get the fuck out of the way and go stuff your face with some fucking cheese fries while you watch fox news 24 hours a day until your fucking brain melts. 'Murica!
Democrat plus republican equals war party.
"I'm good at killing people."
And the whole catering to the big banks and other campaign contributors in the popular fashion and what not, makes Obama a neocon.
"Case and point," as my girlfriend says. Heh...
Ron Paul always gets it right. That's why he's not president.
yes, Thank you Ron Paul for stating this. We appreciate your continued attention as to the state of our nation and informing us of your perspectives during this exciting time to be alive, here and now
He was the last chance.
Nah, as much as I like the guy, he never had a chance, even if he would have won. He'd just get Kennedy'ed his first year in office, or his policy would get blamed for everything when the whole thing finally comes down. I'd rather he just be where he's at now........alive and still trying to wake some people up and enjoying his golden years. I'd never wish the shit job of POTUS on anyone I have any respect for.
I'm convinced he knew this.
What happened to him in the '12 election cycle was criminal, but he kept his mouth shut about it. Why? Because he knew if he pushed it, they would kill him. Better alive and working to educate as many as he can than 6 feet under.
Unfortunately, when the battle with these forces is finally joined, it will not look 1/10th as civilized as Ron Paul's failed campaign.
"Nah, as much as I like the guy, he never had a chance..."
Agreed. As I've said before - the only person that does ever have a chance is self-funding, has his own men-at-arms and his own propaganda arm.
After all, what you're looking for is a legal coup, right?
Anyone without these that chooses to rock the boat is headed for a meeting with a nailgun.
Just like Kennedy.
> Ron Paul always gets it right.
He still can't tell the complete truth, i.e. the fact that neocons are predominantly Jews and followers of Leo Strauss' (one of the major ZOG puppets) ideas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
Many early neoconservative thinkers were Zionist and published articles in Commentary, published by the American Jewish Committee.[5][6] They spoke out against the New Left, and in that way helped define the movement.[7][8] C. Bradley Thompson, a professor at Clemson University, claims that most influential neoconservatives refer explicitly to the theoretical ideas in the philosophy of Leo Strauss (1899–1973),[9] though in doing so they may draw upon meaning that Strauss himself did not endorse.
[...]
First, 'neo-conservative' is a codeword for Jewish. As antisemites did with big business moguls in the nineteenth century and Communist leaders in the twentieth, the trick here is to take all those involved in some aspect of public life and single out those who are Jewish. The implication made is that this is a Jewish-led movement conducted not in the interests of all the, in this case, American people, but to the benefit of Jews, and in this case Israel.
[...]
PS
The irony is that it is ZOG who deliberately insigates hatred of America or Americans... But as Jewish Abraham Licohen said: "...you cannot fool all the people all the time"
Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz led the nascent ideological movement—later turned “neoconservativism.’ It’s all in Irving Kristol’s 1995 book, ‘Neoconservatism: The Autobiography of an Idea’ [Source: Yurica Report].
The Christian Century on November 6, 2002, had this to say about the co-founder of neoconservatism, Norman Podhoretz:
“If the cold war was World War III, as some argue, Norman Podhoretz thinks the United States should precipitate World War IV. Writing in Commentary (September 2002), he lauds President Bush's call for a preemptive strike against Iraq, but then asks: Why stop there? Indeed, most of the Muslim world needs to be overhauled, according to Podhoretz, including the ‘axis of evil’ (Iraq, Iran and the very non-Muslim North Korea), other Muslim countries such as Syria, Lebanon and Libya, as well as the ‘friends’ of America, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and for good …”
Gosh darn it Ron!! If you don't stop blaming America for the world jumping out in front of its bombs,
then I'm afraid you my friend are gonna find yourself with a lit minora shoved up your ass.
I wonder which age group shows the most allegiance to the chosen ones.
Antidote:
http://hammerstorm.org/2039-gigi-die-braunen-stadtmusikanten-braun-is-be...
Better antidote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jhYhtyUPYZs
Ron, It may be picking bones, but they've been sending us to war since after Ike left, so for 50 years the people have been increasingly exploited. It's not just neocons, it's also the perpetual MIC. I'm not sure why people in the US would support a military coup. That certainly would make things much worse, not better.
Even further back: 'Manifest Destiny'.
"America never met a war it didn't like." -- author Douglas Valentine
The neocons are but the latest, and perhaps craziest, iteration of the trend.
Sometimes it seems we've all been sold on the idea of a country that never existed.
Roman during the death rattle: "Yeah, Rome sucks now. But in my father's day...."
yes, i remember learning about Manifest Destiny in a history class, probably what, 7th grade?
I lived in Oklahoma in those years and the Indian Wars were taught rather bluntly yet sparingly and fairly matter of fact. It was horrible but it seems a quite long period if one goes back to early Colonial period as the starting point of the push Westward and the seed of Manifest Destiny was planted ... for humanity to thrive in the future we should pay more attention to indigenous peoples way of life as a model, rather than a Spaceship Enterprise - Star Trek .... wait, this is going too far :)
How Star Trek Explains The Decline Of LiberalismOver nearly 50 years, “Star Trek” tracked the devolution of liberalism from the philosophy of the New Frontier into a preference for non-judgmental diversity and reactionary hostility to innovation, and finally into an almost nihilistic collection of divergent urges. At its best, “Star Trek” talked about big ideas, in a big way. Its decline reflects a culture-wide change in how Americans have thought about the biggest idea of all: mankind’s place in the universe.
http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/15/how-star-trek-explains-the-decline-o...
having recently read http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176045/tomgram%3A_john_feffer%2C_the_sta... Star Trek was in recent memory since reading this TomDispatch post which starts like this : ... "
Resisting the Lure of Intervention
The Search for Terrestrial Intelligence
By John Feffer
They were the “best and the brightest” but on a spaceship, not planet Earth, and they exemplified the liberal optimism of their era. The original Star Trek, whose three-year TV run began in 1966, featured a talented, multiethnic crew. The indomitable Captain Kirk had the can-do sex appeal of a Kennedy; his chief advisor, the half-human, half-Vulcan Mr. Spock, offered the cool rationality of that “IBM machine with legs,” then-Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara. And the USS Enterprise, on a mission “to boldly go where no man has gone before,” pursued a seemingly benign anthropological interest in seeking out, engaging with, and trying to understand the native populations of a fascinating variety of distant worlds.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176045/tomgram%3A_john_feffer%2C_the_sta...
It's late so I've bookmarked the link for later reading.'
The article I linked also likened Kirk to JFK but points out that Kirk often disobeyed the prime directive over moral concerns and was not a disinterested anthropologist like Picard.
Thanks and have a good evening.
perhaps the tea he just drank earlier in the day ... knowing what we do now about the known plans of the post WWII USA military expansion plans, as well as the U.N. & the Middle East re-arrangment - it was the Big Reset. Maps redrawn all over the plane t. Project Paperclip must be included in a trusted evaluation of the period especially as a large contingent of the Deutsch imports began to have major influence in the intel agencies, spooks, and the Space Program and the creation of NASA. Quite odd to consider the two obvious factions which must exist somehow together - the pro-German people and the pro-Bankster Overlords Isreal ? For the string pullers and futurists of the elite is there a serious chasm these days, or is it really a mad scramble for land & resources ? - point being, did someone spike his drink in order to get Truman in?
you decide, knowing now what we do now ...
Melanoma is what actually killed him, or complications from it.
He died of a gunshot wound to the head, either self inflicted or not. l'd say suicide. I had a relative who worked in the hospital down there. She saw the 'cerebral hemorrhage' first hand. JFK had a 'cerebral hemorrhage' too! FDR might'a had cancer, but that ain't how he died. Remember, he's the same crook who had an underground train station built to hide the fact that he was in a wheelchair from the sheeple. Couldn't taint the Godly image by allowing the sheep to know the truth.
From the way back machine. General Grant on the Mexican-American war, 1845.
http://generalgrant.weebly.com/mexican-american-war.html
In his best-selling memoirs written at the end of his life, Grant reflected on his experience in the war, saying, "I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day, regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation." He also stated, "I do not think there was ever a more wicked war...I thought so at the time...only I had not moral courage enough to resign."
I blame legal pot and gay marriage.
It's Zimmerman's fault.
Sure, blame the white hispanic jewish guy
they say come to Colorado for the mountains ,
stay for the Hiii
Was LBJ a neocon? How about Harry S. Truman? Certainly FDR was a neocon, as was Woodrow Wilson, Teddy, and his assassinated predecessor, William McKinley.
LBJ was a Jew.
Certainly FDR was whacked. Truman was told ‘go along to get along’ and drop the atomic bomb or else.
Jackson was the last Good American.
Tell that to the Cherokee. But yeah, killing the bank was a nice touch.
That's why you were eliminated. Karl Rove and McCain think they run MIC. Only if they decided to hire a metrosexual to overlook military pillow fights. Fudgepacker in chief sucked them off for a few million dollars.
Eisenhower Farewell Address (Full) - YouTube
The American freeloader didn't take the time to listen to IKE. Too needy for his/her EBT advance. Money doesn't grow on trees, its funded by each taxpayer.
Why didn't Ike confront the military-industrial-legislative complex at some point before his farewell address?
Because instead of saying "JFK'd" we would be saying "Ike'd".
Maintenance Mode.
Listen, the Military Industrial Complex (M.I.C.) doesn't have a party.
Eisenhower warned us, Kennedy paid for it in blood.
And we let them roll along with the Bread & Circuses.
Where are the patriots in the Armed Forces?
I can tell you that I resigned due to Iraq II and so did most of the good leadership at the time. It seems most of the people in now are unprincipled idiots waiting for a retirement check that will never come while selling their humanity.
Thanks, I know you're out there and are being expunged by the fascist's.
They're bringing in the "yes" people, the brown shirts.
Regards to you and your compatriots.
I'm with you if SHTF, body and soul.
I'm with SS, got out because i saw the storm on the horizon, in '98. I told the useful idiots around me, officers and enlisteds, that they better be ready because a big honkin' war was coming, and they looked at me like I was crazy.
Had to get away from the useful idiots who were taking over, at the time. I see one is now a major at some obscure post in California, and good on the Marine Corps for that one, he was a fucking tool when I served under him. AA hires were another problem, back then. I can't imagine how many good people under them they've ruined, either psychologically, or physically, or maybe both. How many may have been killed. All for opportunistic shitbags within the officer ranks, who cared about career and watching their six, more then those around them.
Long live David Hackworth.
++ - David Hackworth
one of Sgt Tillman's Purple Hearts Club Band
(yes - i've got a list and will be contacting the Banzai7 Institute for shirt designs)
Just curious, do you think they will remain loyal if they learn that retirement check will never come?
I was a grad student, with decent prospects of becoming a professor, but also got out for the same reasons.I wasn't willing to parrot the same old lines about how we need to unquestionably fund renewables (despite data pointing to a few choice ones, like ethanol, being worse for the environment than gasoline), unquestionably fund all research, and unquestionably back all "broader impact" efforts to get our white coat bias into the schools.
Opting out's a great first step; now we need to come up with alternatives.
the alternatives will come when we take back our freedom of consciousness. That means repealing the Controlled Substances Act. Thereby returning to our natural state to control our own consciousness without fear of imprisonment or having our possessions stolen from us by the state and calling it "legal".
Once they really understand that their check won't come, then yes. I think some will go to their own side and some to our side. The problem is, the .gov can just keep saying that "the check's really in the mail this time" and keep them strung along for a while. I think getting them to truly understand that they are pawns in a conflict that has no consequence other than the slaughter of innocent human beings should be more powerful. Building 7 should be the ultimate eye opener, but alas.
Patriotism, much like the concept of justice, is strongest in those that don't have representation.
It's a cry for a better world from those that know what they don't have.
Ever hear the rich cry for justice?
Won't hear the military crying for patriotism either.
You want to find a patriot with a sense of justice? My best guess is look to the countryside and the present company here.
Avoid the cities and the big insititutions - they are a barren wasteland and devoid of all soul.
Doesn't Ron imply the country is a democracy? If he thinks it is then "America" is to blame for letting the policy exist but I guess in the land of pointing the finger he is looking to do just that.
From the other side of the world I always got the impression he was a proper Libertarian and Republican who denounced "Democracy" for the oppressive illusion it is.
You guys are lucky to at least have the failure of his leadership to materialize (not for lack of trying to be sure) to lament. His equivalent never even existed in our political sphere.
I've been a part of organizations RP has started (only got a little face time, then again I lived 1,000 miles away at the time), and the thing here is, you do what you can with what you have. You also start local.
A great deal of freedom starts by putting a sheriff into office that understands his role of refusing to support unconstitutional laws. One town I lived in balanced its budget for the first time in 25 years, while cutting taxes by 20%. The guys we elected did it by firing a good number of useless bureaucrats, and IMO we could keep pushing for more libertarian thinking at multiple levels. A meme worth getting out to other politically-inclined people is the idea of capping property taxes: you pay for 20 years, you own your property free and clear, period. Or better yet, you pay for your property and you own it free and clear to begin with.
in some Colorado cities they offer seniors 65 or older and who have owned & lived in the same house for at least 10 years a 50% off your property tax up to $200k - that seems like a good start
Ron Paul for President.
Ahmed's Clock - A false event engineered to further an evil agenda. (Civilian version of false flag)
20 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHk_6Vh4Qeo&feature=youtu.be
His father was some sort of Muslim activsit too.
The boy trolled the school and got exactly what he wanted, to be arrested for a hoax bomb.
He was begging for money online within an hour of Obammie giving him the shout out.
The only people who broke the law during that incident were the cops who interrogated the kid without his parents or attorney present. But who cares about the rule of law?
The ticking clock is indeed the new enemy ;)
It was not a clock. It was a digital countdown timer (which made it even more threatening) which is even more prescient.
From what I understand the kid was warned by his teacher to put the thing away and it wasn't till the thing went off in English class that shit hit the fan. Evidently the kid was less than cooperative. Looks like a setup to me.
It was not a countdown timer. It was a standard alarm clock which the kid disassembled then resembled in a pencil case. That's what the video linked above is trying to "prove," that since the kid didn't build a clock from scratch then he must have been building a fake bomb which is a ridiculous premise. One of the best ways to learn about a system is to disassemble and reassemble it.
The kid had been known as a builder and a tinkerer in the school district for years. He belonged to the robotics club, he repaired school AV equipment at no charge and fixed electronic gadgets for his fellow students.
The engineering teacher said, "I suggest that you don't show it to any of the other teachers," because he realized that they were reactionary assholes and would automatically conclude that the clock was a bomb. That reflects badly on those teachers and not on the kid.
The shit never hit the fan, The bomb squad was not called in, the school was not evacuated. Everyone knew it was just a clock and a clock without any explosives at that. Even reactionary assholes should realize that wires and a an led readout do not have an explosive potential. But again they are public school teachers so general knowledge and intelligence isn't their long suit.
If it was a "set up," how could the kid have known beforehand that the cops would break the law by not allowing his parents or an attorney present when they interrogated him? Sounds like the cops set themselves up.
But the kids is a Muslim and Obama politicized the incident so of course you mistate the facts as your brain melts down and it all becomes a conspiracy to make you follow Sharia law.
If there is concern about a potential terrorist act by a minor, are the police supposed not to ask him what's going on until his parents show up which may be never?
Hindsight says all that was going on was a hoax bomb. Knowledge at the time could not rule out it might have been part of a wider action.
IMO, if we want to blame the school for anything, it's zero tolerance. If this were a "normal" white or black kid (i.e. no Arabic name), he would have been expelled and no news would have been written.
Zero tolerance for what other people imagine you're thinking? Reminds me of the kid who ate a pop tart and the teacher thought it looked like a gun. The kid didn't try to make it look like a gun, he was just eating it. He later said that he thought it looked like a mountain. But he was expelled because what the teacher imagined was considered to be the facts of the case. The kid is white and it was covered widely.
Interesting that Ron Paul resorts to an idea ("I am America" or any of the variations) so thoroughly despised by a great intellectual forebearer, though I suppose Rothbard, being only 9 years younger, could nearly be called a peer. Which reminds me, sun water movement food and sleep, that shit matters. Look at how productive Dr. Paul has been from 60-80 years. I'm digressing. First post. Yay me.
Here's Rothbard in Anatomy of the State, right out of the gate: With the rise of democracy, the identification of the State with society has been redoubled, until it is common to hear sentiments expressed which violate virtually every tenet of reason and common sense such as, “we are the government.” The useful collective term “we” has enabled an ideological camouflage to be thrown over the reality of political life. If “we are the government,” then anything a government does to an individual is not only just and untyrannical but also “voluntary” on the part of the individual concerned. If the government has incurred a huge public debt which must be paid by taxing one group for the benefit of another, this reality of burden is obscured by saying that “we owe it to ourselves”; if the government conscripts a man, or throws him into jail for dissident opinion, then he is “doing it to himself” and, therefore, nothing untoward has occurred. Under this reasoning, any Jews murdered by the Nazi government were not murdered; instead, they must have “committed suicide,” since they were the government (which was democratically chosen), and, therefore, anything the government did to them was voluntary on their part. One would not think it necessary to belabor this point, and yet the overwhelming bulk of the people hold this fallacy to a greater or lesser degree.
We must, therefore, emphasize that “we” are not the government; the government is not “us.” The government does not in any accurate sense “represent” the majority of the people. But, even if it did, even if 70 percent of the people decided to murder the remaining 30 percent, this would still be murder and would not be voluntary suicide on the part of the slaughtered minority. No organicist metaphor, no irrelevant bromide that “we are all part of one another,” must be permitted to obscure this basic fact.
If, then, the State is not “us,” if it is not “the human family” getting together to decide mutual problems, if it is not a lodge meeting or country club, what is it? Briefly, the State is that organization in society which attempts to maintain a monopoly of the use of force and violence in a given territorial area; in particular, it is the only organization in society that obtains its revenue not by voluntary contribution or payment for services rendered but by coercion. While other individuals or institutions obtain their income by production of goods and services and by the peaceful and voluntary sale of these goods and services to others, the State obtains its revenue by the use of compulsion; that is, by the use and the threat of the jailhouse and the bayonet. Having used force and violence to obtain its revenue, the State generally goes on to regulate and dictate the other actions of its individual subjects. One would think that simple observation of all States through history and over the globe would be proof enough of this assertion; but the miasma of myth has lain so long over State activity that elaboration is necessary.
ptwnblzr,
DUALTIY:
The "other individuals" only are able to APPEAR to operate peacefully and voluntarily due to the state enforcing its rule of law. Of course, the sovereign powers of states were due to the history of warfare, with the surviving War Kings creating the powers of sovereign states, namely, the power to rob (taxation), and the power to kill to back that up (rule of law.)
The current problems are that the best organized gangsters, the international banksters, were able to persistently apply the principles and methods of organized crime through the political processes, in order effectively privatize the powers of states, so that those now primarily serve the interests of the big banks and the corporations that grew up around those banks, after those banks were able to capture control over the public "money" supplies, through which political processes those banksters became the Fraud Kings.
I like this quote from historian Carroll Quigley, which also puts into context who the "NeoCons" really are, and what their agenda actually is:
"powers of financial capitalism
had another far-reaching goal,
nothing less than to create a
world system of financial
control in private hands
able to dominate the
political system of
each country and
the economy of
the world as
a whole ..."
That system was "to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements. ...The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world’s central banks which were themselves private corporations. ... It must not be felt that the heads of the world's chief central banks were themselves substantive powers in world finance. They were not. Rather they were the technicians and agents of the dominant investment bankers of their own countries, who had raised them up, and who were perfectly capable of throwing them down. The substantive financial powers of the world were in the hands of these investment bankers who remained largely behind the scenes in their own unincorporated private banks. These formed a system of international cooperation and national dominance which was more private, more powerful, and more secret than that of their agents in the central banks."
Those are the people who have had the most control over the government of the USA, for instance, as I also reviewed in my comments under this article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-12/unmasking-isis
Unmasking ISIS
The so-called "NeoCons" have had successful political careers because they were actually working to advance the agenda of the international banksters. HOWEVER, at the same time, in my view, authors like Rothbard rely way too much upon the DUALITIES expressed as false fundamental dichotomies and the related impossible ideals, such as that there are any groups of people who actually operate peacefully and voluntarily ???
My view is that is BULLSHIT. All human beings live as entropic pumps of energy environmental energy flows. As soon as perceive human beings as separate from their environment, then they live as gangs of robbers. The only things that exist are the dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies operating robberies.
While it is surely correct that governments are the biggest forms of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangsters, who currently happen to be the banksters, it is BULLSHIT to believe that it is possible for human beings to live peacefully and voluntarily. Positing politics without violence is like physics without force. It has never existed and never could exist. Rather, the appearance of peaceful and voluntary cooperation takes place inside of the context where the sovereign power is enforcing its rule of law. That situation then generates the dilemmas which were described in Plato's Republic, as "Who will guard the guardians?" The answer is nobody.
Civilization developed through the history of warfare. Economics exists as a subset of warfare. That was how and why we ended up with a political economy based on governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks. Most people do not understand that because they have been conditioned to not want to understand that. They do not want to face the facts that the production of destruction of controls production. They want to believe that there are fundamental dichotomies between the productive people versus the predatory people. However, the actually existing situation is that there are no people who do not live as predators (and/or parasites, which is merely a question of scale and distribution of the predation.)
Ron Paul, and everyone else who tends to promote bogus "solutions" based upon the impossible ideals of "liberty," tend to deliberately ignore the basic laws of nature, and the real roles of human beings within those natural laws. All private property is based upon backing up claims with coercions. There is no private property that exists outside of some system of public violence. Everyone who appears to be peacefully and voluntarily cooperating with each other ONLY can do so within the overall context of the long history of the development of private property, based on backing up claims with coercions. There is nothing but the dynamic equilibria of the forces of robberies, that most people are taking for granted (even though it is obvious from a study of history that warfare resolved those claims in the past.)
Of course, Ron Paul is superficially correct, as too was Rothbard. However, they are profoundly wrong due to the degree that they continue to rely upon the DAULITIES of false fundamental dichotomies, and the related impossible ideals. People actually live as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows, which situation has generated intense paradoxes, due to the history of successful warfare based upon treacheries, and backing up deceits with destruction, becoming successful finance based upon governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks.
What I recommend is a series of intellectual scientific revolutions, which requires profound paradigm shifts in the ways that we perceive political problems, primarily through using UNITARY MECHANISMS, instead of continuing to rely upon various old-fashioned DUALITIES, such as expressed through false fundamental dichotomies, and the related impossible ideals.
The NeoCons were successful because they worked to advance the agenda of the international banksters, who were the biggest gangsters. All of those kinds of people were selected through history to become the ruling classes because they were the most psychopathic people, who were the best at backing up their lies with violence. Their systems gradually became more sophisticated systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. HOWEVER, the original source of that was that human beings necessarily live as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows, which means that human beings necessarily live through more or less organized systems of lies, operating robberies.
There are combined money/murder systems, whereby the debt controls are backed by the death controls. Money is the most abstract form of private property, which was always based upon backing up claims with coercions, and so, money is measurement backed by murder. Inside that context, the NeoCons have been advancing the banksters' agenda, which was always debt slavery backed by wars based on deceits. HOWEVER, inside that context, people like Ron Paul, or Rothbard, et alia, are actually forms of controlled opposition, which routinely provide relatively good analysis of the problems, but which were always too superficial, and so, then they collapse back to old-fashioned bullshit, when they turn to proposing their kinds of bogus "solutions" to those problems.
Of course, governments are the biggest forms of organized crime. Governments are actually military organizations, while warfare was organized crime taking place on larger and larger scales. The same basic principles and methods of organized crime were applied by the international banksters to capture control over the powers of governments, mostly through dominating all aspects of the funding of the political processes. Indeed, that social situation has been almost 99% already accomplished, as seen when one looks at the degree to which the so-called public "money" supplies have been privatized all around the world today. Everyone has some power to rob, and power to kill to back that robbery up. Governments assembled and channeled those powers to rob and to kill, while then those powers were effectively privatized, by the international banksters, and the corporations that have grown up around those banksters capturing control over the public "money" supplies.
While the frequencies of appreciating those social facts is way higher in the Zero Hedge world than in the population more generally, most of those who begin to understand that governments are the biggest forms of organized crime, controlled by the best organized criminals (such as the NeoCons working to advance the banksters' agenda), continue to promote bogus "solutions" based on the same old-fashioned bullshit, because they do not engage in deeper analysis.
As soon as life exists, then the death control systems direct the evolution of that life. That applies to human beings and civilization. The consistent contradictions which have developed through the history of successful warfare and successful finance, have been that those were necessarily based upon organized crime, while those who were the biggest and the best at doing that were then able to present themselves publicly as being the opposite of what they really were. Hence, society is almost totally dominated by professional liars and immaculate hypocrites. Furthermore, there is almost nothing but a core of organized crime, surrounded by controlled opposition groups. That is the context in which people like Ron Paul and Rothbard, et alia, operate. They are forms of controlled opposition. They actually stay within the biggest bullies' bullshit world view based upon false fundamental dichotomies and the related impossible ideals. HOWEVER, impossible ideals actually make the opposite happen in the real world (because, after all, they ARE controlled opposition.)
The vast majority of the American people have become Zombie Sheeple, who for generation after generation have adapted to live inside systems based on legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. Since the political economy is actually based upon governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks, and has been so for generation after generation, the vast majority of Americans have adapted to the facts that society is controlled by backing up lies with violence by becoming ignorant and afraid, and feeling too afraid to stop being so ignorant. Indeed, the ruling classes have waged a long war against the consciousness of those they ruled over. The ruling classes have thereby created a kind of oxymoronic scientific dictatorship, that applies science and technology to become better at backing up lies with violence, but does NOT want to be any more scientific about itself.
Since the political economy is based upon enforcing frauds, the vast majority of people have adapted to that situation by developing attitudes that deliberately ignore the principle of the conservation of energy as much as possible, while also deliberately misunderstanding the concept of entropy in the most absurdly backward ways possible. Hence, the vast majority of the American People do NOT come remotely close to controlling the American Governments, but rather are drowning deeper and deeper in the biggest bullies' bullshit world view, which has created a thorough Wonderland Matrix Bizarro World, where almost everything is as absurdly backward as it possibly can be, since there has been historical series of debt slavery backed by wars based on deceits, that have generated numbers which have become debt insanities, provoking death insanities.
HOWEVER, about the only publicly significant opposition to that is controlled. As expressed on Zero Hedge by Cognitive Dissonance: "The absolute best controlled opposition is one that doesn't know they are controlled." OF COURSE, that applies to people like Ron Paul or Rothbard. They are reactionary revolutionaries, telling the mainstream morons that the "solutions" to the problems are for everyone to become better Sheeple. Those bogus "solutions" are still stuck inside of the biggest bullies' bullshit world view.
On the contrary, my view is that the only genuine solutions must necessarily become better death controls, to back up better debt controls. Doing that takes profound paradigm shifts in the ways that we perceive those systems. The promotion of false fundamental dichotomies between the productive/prey people versus the predatory/parasite people is to stay inside of the bullshit that the biggest bullies originally developed to enable them to operate as professional liars and immaculate hypocrites. In my view, people like Ron Paul, or Rothbard, et alia, are actually controlled opposition, which means that I regard their careers as based upon them being professional hypocrites.
Of course, Ron Paul, or Rothbard for that matter, tend to provide correct, albeit superficial analysis of the problems. HOWEVER, because those are too superficial, their "solutions" continue to be the same old-fashioned bullshit, while has always backfired badly throughout history, and would surely continue to do so. The NeoCons were triumphant because they were able to operate as the best organized gangs of criminals, working covertly for other bigger and better organized gangs of criminals.
The ideals of a government of the people, by the people, for the people died a long time ago, as more and more of "We the People" became Zombie Sheeple. Instead, we now almost totally have government of the money, by the money, for the money, and that was the government which euphemistically intervened in Syria. (Indeed, the vast majority of the American People have not been in control of the American governments for a long, long time.)
HOWEVER, at a deeper level, the reasons for that increasingly dismal situation is the degree to which the vast majority of Americans have been almost totally brainwashed to believe in the biggest bullies' bullshit world view. They are especially screwed because of the degree to which almost all of the publicly significant opposition promotes the same old-fashioned bullshit ways of thinking that enabled the problems to grow to become so extremely bad, i.e., debt slavery backed by wars based on deceits, becoming debt insanities, provoking death insanities.
Rather than the American People controlling the American Government, what is actually happening is that the ruling classes that control what the American Government actually does were simultaneously preparing to impose democidal martial law in America. Therefore, while the ruling classes, as may be labeled as the NeoCons, were starting genocidal wars, they were also preparing to engage in democidal martial law within the USA.
Tragically, in my opinion, there is no genuine opposition that is publicly significant to either of those trends, because almost all of the publicly significant opposition is controlled. Pretty well the entire "Liberty Movement" is based on bullshit which makes no effort to reconcile itself with the progress that has been made in physical science. Rather, it continues to be content to spout the magical words and phrases that it developed to already do Centuries ago.
Overall, we are faced with a runaway scientific dictatorship, which has become globalized electronic monkey money frauds, backed by the threat of force from apes with atomic bombs. Inside that context, there is no genuine opposition that is actually more scientific about itself, which would be necessary to transform that scientific dictatorship to become genuinely more scientific about itself.
There is NOTHING in the world views of guys like Ron Paul or Rothbard, etc., that can be reconciled with the prodigious progress achieved in physical science. They do not ever bother to even attempt to do that, but rather, continue to spout their favourite sorts of transcendental poetry, as the expression of impossible ideals, which have no operational definitions. In those sense, Ron Paul, or Rothbard, etc., are dead-ends of controlled opposition. Their superficial analysis is correct, but since that continues to be too superficial, their solutions are impossible to actually implement.
Tragically, it appears that there are no realistic solutions to the real problems, other than for the runway debt insanities to provoke worse runaway death insanities. We have barely begun to see what kinds of genocidal wars the NeoCons, and their ilk, have prepared to precipitate, much less have we yet seen the kinds of democidal martial law that they have prepared actually being imposed in North America.
In my view, the NeoCons have no publicly significant opposition which they do not already control. Therefore, I see no reasons to doubt that they will continue to be able to implement their agenda, regardless of the degree to which that has become psychotic, runaway criminal insanities. Rather, that is what I expect to continue to actually happen. Anything else would require series of political miracles, which I seen almost no signs of manifesting anywhere, especially since the few who do perceive the problems, continue to collapse back to the same old-fashioned bullshit, whenever they start talking about their "solutions" to those political problems.
excellent as usual RadMJ - you nail it on the dualities and the controlled opposition factor, although I'd have a hard time putting RP there as he sure appears to walk his talk -
however, I'm continually disappointed to see you again state that you see no solutions coming.
- from my post above : the alternatives will come when we take back our freedom of consciousness. That means repealing the Controlled Substances Act. Thereby returning to our natural state to control our own consciousness without fear of imprisonment or having our possessions stolen from us by the state and calling it "legal".
The only possible solution I see is to make available the "Doors of Perception" to all people, and "They Live" - we open our eyes to the predicament we're in and the new way of seeing life and our environment and commit to lead our lives in a more impeccable manner
I agree that more people prevailing to resist the war against consciousness would be the most important step towards any other subsequent solutions.
I believe that there are plenty of possible creative alternatives. However, the most important of those would have to be changes in human consciousness. Such changes would have to cope with the degree to which the ruling classes have waged war against the consciousness of those they ruled over.
Radical - does this mean anything to you? Nonverbal communication in the form of dance? Have you ever heard of .... hold it, checking spelling,
“When I realized that [ancient wisdom] … had been handed down … from generation to generation for thousands of years, and yet had reached our day almost unchanged …. I … regretted having begun too late to give the legends of antiquity the immense significance that I now understand that they really have.” – George Gurdjieff"
I read some Gurdjieff during my 20s. That added to my overall set of opinions regarding the perennial philosophy of ancient mysticism. Since I was originally raised with an academic technical education, based on physical science, without any religious indoctrination, I have tended to retrofit science and mysticism back together, to end up with my own "megasynthesis."
There are many different ways of "knowing" and expressing what one "knows." Those surely include dance. Indeed, one can say that our biological lives are essentially the quick dances of molecules. Our conscious being seems to be ephemeral patterns of energy flows through our brains: indeed, dancing.
One of my Experimental Psychology professors was really into Gurdjieff and started pretty much all his classes with Gurdjieff aphorisms and Torah programming like we were all Jews that worshiped the Torah. He knew I was a Grumpy Marxist, and tried his best to expose me to Gurdjieff, but I never bought into that brand of mysticism or epistemological thought. If you are not prepared to become a Jew I doubt Gurdjieff would be the best place to delve into epistemology, or Eastern Mysticism. Blast around Wikipedia with 'epistemology/mysticism' as the search term. That should get you on the desired path to consciousness when you sample the data.
p.s. good hash from Nepal helps.
Radical Marijuana, you are not exactly a mainstream politician that has to hand feed the masses whilst educating them at the same time. Ron Paul only has sound bites to work with via a media that is geared to avoid anything intelligent so as not to confuse the stupid sheeple with anything other than brain farts that the Corporatists want disseminated.
Ron Paul does attempt to educate the ignorant masses, but one dude can only accomplish so much if the Corporatists don't want them to succeed. If you were to work within the political sphere in DC they would burn you at the stake, and crucify you for your views, and you bloody well know it. How can you stand in judgement of Ron Paul? I don't pay too close attention to American politics, or American politicians, so fill me in on why you are so contemptuous of Ron Paul?
wtf, cough up?
I certainly agree that Ron Paul has done more than anyone else that I am aware of in the degree to which he has caused larger numbers of people to begin to think about the SOURCES of the public "money" supply, and the related inherent problems with the Federal Reserve Board.
I felt that Ron Paul was the best hope that Americans had, back when there could have been Ron Paul for President of the USA!
Neo-con is a euphemism. When you simply state fact its refreshing
Is Cheney Jewish? How about Rumsfeld?
Joe Biden?
ughhh.....................jews
"I don’t blame America; I blame neocons"...
To say you don't blame the Ameircan people and "some outside force" that influenced you and everyone else in Washington is same as saying that oath of office you took to obey the laws of the Land are irrelevant and that the people in a Republic have no control or stake over the establishment that commits treason and that pays taxes for war (s)that are based on abject lies!
When is it the responsibility to those in uniform when they knowingly commit acts of treason repeatedly to the detriment of there own Nation before it's too late? When do the taxpayers intervene by force if necessary to make it stop before it is too late?
Ron you paid us lip service and told us in 2009 you would find a way to communicate to the rest of Congress that a new unbiased investigation of the facts into 9/11 was on your agenda... Then you ran for President and said absolutely nothing regarding that request.
Had to say it for the record you're nothing but a sorry assed politician and absentee landlord!
Congratulations! You can walk the long gray line with the rest of them
This is truly a sad day and you have no idea how sad I feel that I had to say it!
In 2008 Ron said he wasn't a "Truther" and that he wished that they would leave him alone. Yet you still managed to misunderstand his intentions in 2009. So much for the cognitive abilities of the average "Truther."
?...
So if I read you correctly Billy by virtue of potentially being labeled a "Truther" Paul would have never been accepted by the voter and more importantly the corporate aristocracy.
If you buy that argument how bad could it have gotten for him if he had revealed that he was a Truther considering how the networks treated him during the debates running as an anti-establishment candidate on the basis of his position on "sound money"?
The Truther camp is split (as if truth was relative). Some hate Ron because he dashed their hopes by saying that he wasn't a Truther. Others cling to the belief that Ron is lying -- they believe he is a Truther but he isn't man enough to admit it. The actual truth is that Ron is not a Truther and if he was he would come right out and say so. The man does not pull punches.
Ron says that 9/11 was caused by "blowback," not because he's hiding his real thoughts but because the principle of blowback perfectly illustrates what he thinks is wrong with US foreign policy. He employs the same sentiment in this explanation of the cause of the Syrian refugee crises. It's blowback from bad US foreign policy decisions.
"If somebody comes and and says well what do you believe, .. and uh, if they ask me, 'do you think the towers went down by, uh, microwaves from outer space?' I'll say no, I don't believe that. You know I just tell em what I believe, and that's, to me what is the most important, is I tell people what I believe." -- Ron Paul
Bill
Some of what you said I will buy.
If we never knew anything about the science behind the collapse of all 3 buildings because no engineers and scientists would step forward out of fear, and all the other "truths" that we know about the aftermath of 9/11 that gushed "cover up" I would agree that there was enough to hang every member of the Administration, Congress and all the agencies involved that committed the worst treason in our Nation's history without the merits of the science behind the collapse.
My question to you is why would anyone dismiss that science as it is one more element to convict and impeach those that concealed that crime and on it's heels launched multiple wars and destroyed the credibility, economy and the national security of the Country along with it's allies? The science would be the most important and credible part of an unbiased investigation of the facts. And for anyone to somehow suggest that it isn't important or that "I know what I know and that's all"... is disingenuous and serves more than one master.
Paul is a smart man and I know he knows what he was told was important and that the potential for it happening again by not exposing the whole "truth" will have it's consequences again some day in the future! His sole purpose and obligation as a member of Congress (just like the rest of them) was to protect and defend the Country against all enemies foreign and domestic... Can you argue with that contradiction that he did everything that he needed to? That's my question.
P.S.
Not to be facetious. But I'm pretty certain the statement you made out about the "microwaves" was something that he didn't say for the record!
You sound like a decent enough fellow, it's obvious that the official 9/11 story is bullshit and I'm even willing to entertain the idea that there was complicity in the US government. But here's what turns me off about "Truthers." They imagine something to be true even though it isn't and soon they've constructed a dogma which they parade around as a "litmus test" by which they judge everyone else.
Here's what I mean by imagining things to be true:
But I'm pretty certain the statement you made out about the "microwaves" was something that he didn't say for the record!
First of all, I didn't make the statement, Ron Paul made the statement. He said it to George Noory on a nationally syndicated radio program. That's about as on-the-record as you can get.
#But here's what turns me off about "Truthers." They imagine something to be true even though it isn't and soon they've constructed a dogma...Please don't generalize. It looks like you are hiding from your own knowledge. What are these imagined truths that aren't, that the people you identify with the derogatory term "Truthers" all cling to?? Thanks.
You're as well aware as I am that there was a story going around that the towers were replaced by holograms on 9/11. Jesse Ventura had to point out that that was just stupid. Then there was the time Charlie Sheen was scheduled to appear on the AJ show and tell the world that he had met with Obama and there would be a new 9/11 investigation! Truthers were doing victory laps all around the Internet. Even when it turned out to be a big joke on the Truthers themselves they somehow convinced themselves that Charlie is a righteous dude.
You aren't seriously claiming that everything shouted from the rooftops over the years by Truthers has been true are you? And yet they still try to hammer people over the head with the ole "litmus test."
I don't expect you to accept these obvious facts even though you've likely witnessed them personally because, well you know, you only believe in "Truth."
#You're as well aware as I am that there was a story going around that the towers were replaced by holograms on 9/11.
Huh? No I'm not. Maybe the time you spend with the MSM is warping your mind?
"But I'm pretty certain the statement you made out about the "microwaves" was something that he didn't say for the record!
First of all, I didn't make the statement, Ron Paul made the statement. He said it to George Noory on a nationally syndicated radio program. That's about as on-the-record as you can get."..
Bill
What you and Ron don't know about the collapse of the Towers and Bulding 7 then is substantial.
This organization made at least two visits to his office in Washington with presentation and material when he was in Congress and we encouraged him to read the body of information and review the evidence several times -obviously to no avail.
Trust me. Every Congressman got CDs and was urged to reach out to us to address any "questions" on the need for additional remedial support if it wasn't convincing enough the the first and second time!
Obviously the lure and smell of what comes out of 301 14th Street Southwest made everything they learned in high school physics irrelevant! That and in Ron's case a frequent caller at 3:00 in the morning telling you he knows what you had for dinner the night before asking you "how the family is getting along"!!!...
That's all fine as long as you let folks ask their own questions (perhaps with just a bit of prodding) and come to their own conclusions over time without hitting them over the head with a "litmus test." You sound reasonable and you can probably make that work for you.
I also note that you haven't stated that Ron is "controlled opposition" because he hasn't released the secret 9/11 documents. I often hear Truthers say that Paul/Assange/Snowden are controlled opposition because none of them has released these legendary secret 9/11 files that obviously don't even exist. Any evidence to be found will be a piece here and a piece there. There is no dossier sitting on a shelf somewhere.
I also note that you haven't stated that Ron is "controlled opposition" because he hasn't released the secret 9/11 documents. I often hear Truthers say that Paul/Assange/Snowden are controlled opposition because none of them has released these legendary secret 9/11 files that obviously don't even exist.
secret 9/11 documents?... Not necessary when you have physicists and the engineers who build those structures and know there tolerances.
Don't even need to address the "controlled opposition" comment as it is also irrelevant for the reasons I just stated, although Assange has made some very pointed statement(s) with regard to the science behind the collapse of the tower(s) and building 7 as being nothing more than a distraction?...
Don't know why he would make those kinds of statement(s) but he's neither a physicist or building engineer so who the fuck cares!
well, the Truther "camp" is actually quite large and I, for one, don't remember seeing any polls quizzing on the "Ron Paul Truther Controversy"
I've only ever met one Truther in real life (who had glommed onto Ron Paul as was the fashion) but there is a large enough sampling of them running wild on the Internet to get the gist of their wacky religion.
"is pointing out the unintended consequences of bad policy blaming America? Is it “blaming America” to point out that blowback – like we saw on 9/11"
These words really struck me as being a point to stop and really consider what is going on.
If 9/11 was (and I agree, it is..it was..will be) then consider that as a foundation for all these other false flag events and the "fundemental transformation" that has taken place globally since that 'event' occured???
So Obama is a neo-con?
He employs neocon operatives such as Nuland.
The Ethnic Clique That Sold Us The Iraq War
"Almost the entire Iraq-war clique, advocated the war from 1998 on. 9/11 was only a convenient pretext. Amazingly almost all were members of just two organizations: IASPS and PNAC. Both were neoconservative, and there were many links between the two.IASPS: Institute for Advanced Strategic & Political Studies
Members in the Iraq-War clique:
David Wurmser: Middle East advisor to Vice President Cheney
Douglas Feith: Undersecretary of Defense for Policy until 2005.
Richard Perle: First Chairman of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board.
Charles Fairbanks: Former assistant to and college friend of Wolfowitz.
PNAC: Project for New American Century
Members in the Iraq-War clique:
Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Feith, Bolton, Libby, Abrams, Wurmser, Perle."
Same Robert Kagan and his ethnic cohorts causing death and destruction in Ukraine.
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=908
Yeah but this is Syria and ten years later and I thought Obama pretended not to like Cheney & co. Obama's deal was supposed to be the "Arab Spring", and this Syria mess came about from that.
That's like asking is the Pope a Marxist?
Who should care if he is doing the same? When you play the game of the red pill vs blue pill our Presidends, all of them, shall proceed bombing. We had 2 chances to elect Ron Paul for the Presidend. So... ?
LOOK the doublespeak is all designed to eliminate the obvious designs since day one of US strategy - domination of the world - they will take intermediate chaos, murder everywhere and trillions at the expense of the middle class in the USA for their moneyball
talking gets nowhere - need to have NO democrats nor republicans in DC - only solution
right Omen IV, the game is apparently global domination. Do we like the way this game is currently being played? ZH is for those who place significance in the articles and comments here
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Thus to change the game we could alter our diet so our behavior and objectives transform to become more and more impeccable, thus changing the game into one that we can be proud of and pass on to future generations
I'm sorry, all these "neocons" and "tea parties" and bulshit "democrats" are elected by the american people, to keep the "american way of life", so, americans in general are responsable too
Yes, they are responsible too - but only as much as peasants are responsible under the rule of a king.
Placing any more upon their shoulders means you are either mean spirited, think the average American is much smarter than they actually are, or are a true believer in the democratic process.
If not a mix of all three.
They're sheep, corralled by wolves, and the shepherd is long dead.
If you know better than they do consider leading them instead of berating them. That's our only way out of this mess.
We have to start breeding shepherds.
What! I was told history started in 2009 and that everything was Obama's fault.
Take a look at this crap that goes on over in the occupied areas in the Mideast. It doesn't surprise me being that the Dual citizens are running the show.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-...
Ron Paul has done more than anyone to wake people up...while all you sit at your computers and complain.
Better to blow off steam in a socially acceptable way by complaining online IMHO. Contemporary society is designed to blow off steam via Internet blogs n' websites. Complaining is a human right worth protecting, nurture, and practice. Depth Psychologists like Freud always took a hydraulic view of bottled up angst, emotion, feelings. Further, research indicates that Freud was right about the sorts of pathological illness that can manifest from bottled up emotions. Bottom line from a perspective of psychology is that complaining is normal behaviour, and necessary whilst human beings, and personalities, interact along a social continuum of human interaction. We cannot all get jobs as American politicians and each individual should have a right to FREE SPEECH IMHO. Who cares if everyone whines, bitches, and complains? With the kind of fucked up society we have I would be shocked if people did not complain 24/7/365.
I watched Ralph Nader complain about American ideology/policy on TVO today. I'm pleased he is still complaining after all these years. Complainers are cool.
Speaking as an American I agree that we do own a large portion of the blame. But another thing we have to consider is why Europe is opening its borders to all of these refugees in the first place. The replenishment rate of Europe's main countries is as low as 1.2, which is considered to be impossible to rebound from. Why is this important? Because without a solid taxpayer base all of these Social programs in Europe would collapse. They would collapse! So for god sakes Europe, wake up before you turn into Eurbekistan and either start up the "Happy Breeding Machine" or drop your foolish Socialist Democracy or else you'll run yourselves into oblivion. The same thing is happening here in the U.S. If we didn't have immigrants coming over from the Central and South America's we'd be in a worse bind. Heck, even with immigration every Socialist Democracy is being crushed by debt.
You can take my portion of that blame if you like. I accept absolutely zero blame for what other people do. I have no control over them, and I will not eat their shit as so many seem wont to do.
You mean you don't want to be treated like your forefathers treated Geronimo's skull--- or those NATIVES of his times?
Manifest destiny is a one way street ?
Just visit Rome and look at all those ruins.
Magnificent past ! Until somebody makes it into rubble like Palmyra today !
You don't have to eat their shit but you may have to eat your own (sorry, your metaphor) and ...you may have your head on someone else's pike. Thats what a predatory civilization begets on its own innocent. I don't consider myself any more privileged than the next man.
The Italians paid for Rome's hubris for 2000 years, and its still not over!
History is a bitch and history is man's past footsteps. We don't seem to avoid what has already occurred.
The printing press seems to feel there is a way out !
Play on Yellen- Magellan !
Sorry but are not neocons americans? Of course americans are to blame, but not only the Uk, canada,germany and france are all too willing allies ready to stir trouble and enter illegal unjustified wars. Wars based on lies.
The problem is that no one is accountable for the death, destuction and chaos left by all these illegal invasions. So these perpetuate all the time. Even if the peoples would manifest themselves and many do, we all have already understood that our voice becomes irrelevant as soon as some bozo is elected. Maybe people who vote should consider more carefully who they vote for.
For most of the world, this is one in the same.
The Public is as much to blame, as they keep voting for the same people, the same parties and keep expecting different results everytime. I truely believe the people that control the WHite House believe instability in the world is what makes the USA stable and rich. Peace is just not profitable, which is why whenever peace is about to break out in the Mid-East somebody from the state department goes over to ensure that doesn't happen.
This discussion is predicated on the notion that the public has a choice in who is elected. Ever been to the polls? There is a slate containing three choices: Democrat, Republican and Independent. The independent candidate has almost no chance of election. The drones who vote generally have not taken the time to vet the candidates and fall back on their party affiliations. By the time we get a choice, the two prevailing candidates have been vetted by the political machines and they wind up being owned by the system.
Whoever winds up in the oval office gets an immediate reality check from the deep state the moment he sits down in the big chair. He is told what is possible and from then on he operates within their paradigm.
There is no political solution to the end of growth. There is a real chance as people are pushed away from the table that the disenfranchised will burn the country to the ground. That is why everyone who is aware is arming to the teeth. The country is holding its collective breath waiting for the ongoing societal break down to reach a tipping point.
"The Public is as much to blame, as they keep voting for the same people, the same parties and keep expecting different results everytime."
Said like a man who has implacable faith in the honest outcome of elections.
The more sacred the icon, the deeper the corruption.
I blame America, neocons, and Israel, as well as the University professors that taught them to think they are 'elites' entitled to their entitlements.
And I blame the lowlife Mafia, CIA, FBI, et cetera.
When criticizing 'our' foreign policy, always use the term 'USG' or 'US government' - never just 'US' or 'United States'. Never use phrases like 'we invaded Iraq'; always say things like the "USG invaded Iraq" or "Bush invaded Iraq".
And don't refer to the US government as 'Washington' either. Call it the 'regime that occupies Washington'. George Washington was against 'entangling alliances'.
And when someone accuses you of 'blaming America first', remind them that what is special about America is not its government, but its relative lack of government.
the problem is majority of americans agree with what neocons do (or they don't care, which is the same) :-P