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Volkswagen Scandal Becomes "Investor's Nightmare" As German Government Dragged In
Over the past two days, we’ve spent quite a bit of time documenting the emissions scandal that’s rocked Volkswagen, sending its shares down more than 30% (see here, here, and here for instance).
Far from representing an isolated, “contained” event, revelations that the company used software to game diesel emissions tests have the very real potential to reverberate throughout the German economy.
As we explained on Tuesday, Volkswagen Group is the largest automaker in Germany and it is also the largest German company by revenue. In case the implications of that for Germany’s export machine are in any way unclear, allow us to elaborate:
While banking may be the most important sector to the hyper-financialized US economy, for the export-driven German economy - whose exports account for over 40% of GDP - it is all about the car companies and their massive supply chains.
So what happened over the past 48 hours to Volkswagen, which has lost over a third of its market cap, or more than the market cap of Tesla, is nothing short of an earthshattering cataclysm to an economy where all the cogs and gears and running in a smooth, undisturbed ensemble... until everything changed overnight.
Throw in the fact that the industry is already threatened by the deceleration in China’s economy, and you have a veritable nightmare scenario in the making and for anyone who thinks we may be going overboard with the hyperbole, we present the following from Deutsche Bank (another German company that’s quite adept at gaming regulators), out Wednesday:
An investor's nightmare: uncertainty on all levels.
After VW lost c. €30bn of its market value in 2 days, it might strike as a buying opportunity. However, we stress that the full magnitude of the emission scandal is likely to remain uncertain for much longer. So far we conclude that1) the legal fines will be painful, impossible to quantify and potentially remain a topic for years & that 2) the impact on the operational business poses even higher risks for future cash flows. We cut our EPS ests materially over 2015- 2017 accounting for a €5bn legal fine, recall costs, lower growth and pricing pressure from brand damage (2%). Any €1bn additional fine would take away €2.02 per share.
Last Friday VW came under attack for having deliberately misled regulators by equipping their engines with ‘hidden’ software. Initially the US regulator spoke about 500k vehicles with a maximum fine of $18bn or $37.5k per car. Today VW stated that they see globally some 11 million cars impacted. History has shown that with recalls the first ‘confessions’ are rarely the end of it. Our current base case is that VW will face about €5bn in legal fees/ residual impairment.
We think the impact on the operational business – namely volumes, residual values, pricing and costs - is even harder to estimate and is the key concern here. A main element of our buy case had been significant cost cuts. We now believe that rising costs for diesel cars will offset most of the effects. Most importantly, we have taken a more cautious stance on the growth outlook for VW and Audi and believe pricing will come under pressure due to the reputational damage. Consequently, we cut our 2015-2017 earnings by up to 35%. We further include the €6.5bn provision already announced. We note several countries have already indicated consequences VW cars if cheating is discovered and in Germany for example all relevant cars will now be tested.
Risks: what we cannot put in numbers (yet)...
...1) further law suits; 2) a need for further disposals or even equity measures; 3) management changes where we expect a decision over the next days
Of course this is the sellside we're talking about here which means that somehow, Deutsche Bank managed to get a "Hold" rating out of all that (apparently even companies the bank thinks represent "an investor's nightmare" don't deserve to be sold), but you get the idea.
Meanwhile, the scandal looks as though it may end up ensnaring Germany's transport ministry. Here's FT:
In a written response to a question from the Green party, the German transport ministry said: “The federal government is aware of [defeat devices], which have the goal of [test] cycle detection.”
The Greens asked if the ministry was aware of the deployment of defeat device software in new vehicles, and it replied: “We have no knowledge of this.”
There was no specific question about VW and defeat device software from the Greens and the ministry did not refer to the company.
However, the ministry answered the question on July 28, prompting accusations that Berlin had been aware of the potential for cheating in the industry for months.
Oliver Krischer, a German Green party lawmaker, said: “The federal government admitted in July, to an inquiry from the Greens, that the [emissions] measurement practice had shortcomings. Nothing happened.
“The VW emissions scandal is the result of a politics in which environmental and consumer protection plays no role and every trick and means of cheating is accepted with a wink.”
Now obviously, being aware of the potential for cheating and having knowledge of actual cheating are two entirely different things. That is, cheating is always theoretically possible in any industry that's subject to regulatory oversight so in one sense, the German transport ministry really didn't say anything at all. On the other hand, recall that, as Theo Vermaelen, a finance professor at INSEAD put it earlier this week, "if it looks like it's more companies, not just Volkswagen, it would be a major problem for the German car industry, and the German economy overall." When viewed through the lens of the potential effect on the German economy, it seems at least possible that someone in Berlin had instructions to protect the country's economic interests at the possible expense of the environment.
In a testament to just how critical the company is in Germany, residents of Wolfsburg (where VW funds everything from the university to the soccer club) fear their town may be headed for a Detroit-like death spiral. Here's more from Bloomberg:
Nowhere is Volkswagen AG’s widening emissions scandal being felt more acutely than in Wolfsburg, the ultimate company town in Germany.
Here, a hundred miles west of Berlin, VW funds the university, runs the biggest museum and owns the local soccer club, which is competing against some of the best teams in the world in the Champions League.
"If you’d visualize traffic in and out of the city, it would look like a pulse and the heart is the VW plant," cab driver Karsten Raabe says as he steers his Skoda by the sprawling complex, where hundreds of gleaming cars sit in parking lots and on the back of freight trains. “Without VW, this city and the entire region would die. We’d become a European Detroit,”
More than seven decades after the Nazis built Wolfsburg from scratch to make the original ‘people’s car,’ VW employs about 72,000 people in the city of 125,000. The company’s annual sales have quadrupled over the past two decades to 202 billion euros ($225 billion). The boom has helped drive unemployment down to 4.9 percent, well below the national average.
Even the main tourist attraction is a tribute to VW: Autostadt, a 28-hectare theme park with road-safety tracks and vintage cars that was completed in 2000 for about 400 million euros. And then there are the 7.8 million VW-branded sausages that are made in Wolfsburg and sold nationwide each year.
‘Black Monday’
On Tuesday at Saloniki, a wood-paneled tavern near the central station, six men heatedly debated VW’s admission that it cheated on U.S. emissions tests, sparking an investigation that has wiped about 25 billion euros off the company’s market value.
“Black Monday for VW” read the front-page headline of the local newspaper sprawled on the bar in front of them.
And as we explained on Tuesday, it's not just VW and it's not just the German auto industry that are at risk - it's the entire supply chain.
Finally, because no scandal at a publicly traded company would be complete without a healthy dose of market manipulation and/or insider trading, BaFin has now launched a "routine" probe into trading activity in VW shares (just seven years, we might add, after the regulator looked into how it happened that Volkswagen briefly became the most valuable company on the face of the planet after its shares surged to €1,000 one Tuesday during the depths of the financial crisis).
The "watchdog" (and we use that term very loosely in light of BaFin's half-hearted investigation of Anshu Jain) is also looking into the timing of the company's disclosures. Via WSJ:
Germany’s financial watchdog BaFin on Wednesday said it is investigating possible trading irregularities in Volkswagen AG shares, and whether the car maker was obliged to disclose information regarding its emissions scandal sooner than it did after its shares dropped sharply over the past two days.
BaFin, the German securities supervisor based in Frankfurt, is examining market developments for indications of potential insider trading or other manipulation. A BaFin spokeswoman said this is a “routine” probe with no foregone conclusions. As part of the investigation, Volkswagen will be asked to what extent the executive board knew about the emissions issue, and when individuals knew, she said.
The watchdog is also probing the timing of news disclosure, since market-relevant information is supposed to be disclosed immediately.
So there you have it: an unadulterated disaster that threatens to engulf everyone from assembly line workers in Wolfsburg to officials in Berlin and which has the potential cripple Europe's economic engine just as the German auto industry is marking an extremely difficult transition towards a world where double-digit growth in China is no longer realistic.
We shall see, going forward, if this is just the excuse the ECB needs to expand PSPP or whether perhaps - just perhaps - air pollution ends up being the proximate cause for Mario Draghi to drag the depo rate further into NIRPdom, triggering retaliatory cuts in Sweden and ultimately in Switzerland where, we might add, the air is famously clean.
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And they were doing so good with Greece and the ISIS migrants....PS...where are all the women?
And they give ya' a Volkswagen, which is just as good as a car. ;-)
Yogi Berra
Fascism exists outside of America. Germany for example, the perfect marriage of government and corporate 'interests'.
<The peons are simple fuel for the (diesel) machine.>
By the way, for those who don't know....Yogi died yesterday.
The most agonizing part of this scam is that we have not needed petroleum powered engines for more than thirty years.
Source: https://youtu.be/0gVLv5eg4Xg?t=5093
Just sign and drive, you can trust us, just sign and go.
HEADLINE "US Government accuses Germany of Environmental Terrorism" VW responsible for Global Warming and Cooling.
well who cares, really?
FUCK THE E.P.A....it should be defunded and doors closed. It's now run by a cult of enviro-Nazi's who want to tax us for breathing, for fucks sake.
Why isn't there more of an investigation into the on-going "Climate-Gate" scandal that all these scumbag scientists and governments, universities, etc. are lying about global warming just so they can demonize everyone who knows they're lying and charge us massive global taxes????
That's the REAL criminal environmental scandal going on.
I don't give a fuck if VW used a computer chip to game the system to get around tyrannical EPA emmissions standards.
But the EPA can fuck off and die right now and it would be a great day on this planet and a good start to ending all the bullshit non-elected, treasonous, Fascist, Marxist, government agencies.
Fuck the EPA!
These cocksuckers are the definition of a failed bureaucracy. But it's also the auto manufacturers keeping the markets separate. My buddy tried to import an audi into the USA, and not one company would agree to work with me because they didn't want to deal with both the EPA and trying to get audi of america to provide the correct software. Estimated cost, if it was possible to import a 2014 audi, was $30k.
The epa is a big government problem, and it's going to be with us until after the reset.
Diesel engines don't produce carbon monoxide, I wonder what emissions they are cheating on?
NOx. NOx standards are far stringent in the US than in the EU. That is why we dont see more diesel cars here in the US even though diesel is cheaper, per mile, than gasoline and much, much safer (doesn't produce explosive vapors like gasoline). For those of you who don't know what this scandal is about: Some brilliant hacker/coder working for VW figured a way to determine (using wheel position, atmospheric pressure and other environmental factors) when the any of their vehicles were in a dyno been tested for emmisions. The computer will automatically detect the test and switch to a different fuel ussage "map" (software profile) that allows it to meet the standards. When it detects the test is over, it returns to its baseline map which provides better performance. This software code is embbeded in every VW diesel computer sold in the US and its only function is to "pass" the test.
yes, it's a benchmark detection algorithm...
NO and NO2
likely particulates, NOx and sulphur... the complete list is here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust#Chemical_components
pay-ola
Why the US Is Attacking Volkswagen: VW has started engine production at a new factory in Russia. (Thanks to Jeff Scott). – Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr. (September 21)
RIP Yogi Berra
May your cash always spend just like money.
So U.S. Auto makers put a hit out on VW. Everyone one them cheat on emissions but some cheaters are more equal than others. Prove me wrong in this Corruptacracy
It was a hit just like they put a hit on BNP to remind France to stay away from getting friendly with Russia and to insure they keep taking millions of immigrants.
So governments role is now to hollow out every big business...find a reason to fine them and the jobs they create out of existence. ZH was absolutely right yesterday, they simply didn't pay off enough people.
This emissions issue is far less egregious than the GM ignition switch SCANDAL.
Wow, the way these tophats run this circus is un-freaking-believable...If this was a real economy, this could have been settled over a nice lunch, and a few good bottles of wine. But, no, let's blow the world economy out of the water. There is going to be SERIOUS blowback for this foolish prank.
Don't forget Germany and Japan are satellite economic puppets to the USSA, built that way since 1946. This is all part of the SAME fascist machine.
Wolfsburg= Detroit....?
"Fuck the EU" wasn't an offhand comment. It was, and continues to be, policy.
Talk about a totally manmade scandal here. All to do about not much. Obviously VW needs to make more 'donations' to the DNC.
HAHA,
We have been pooping on germany's environment for decades with all our "environmentally friendly" military crap
but the peoples car is the real culprit...
Germany got PUNK'D...
HAHA germany. You got nothin on this galactic empire!
STarting a position in POAHY today.
So the EPA is now destroying the German economy as well? The vehicle emissions problem was solved DECADES ago. It's part of this near constant fight to keep diesel engines out of the US. They're simply too efficient versus ICE or god forbid those idiotic ethanol vehicles
Diesels are the way to go. Little buzz box cars with diesels get incredible mileage. You are right with your comments. No reason not to be using diesel. It's just like the solar panels. China jumped in and made them nearly affordable. Instantly Obummer put a 35% tax on them. WTF? Oh, they said it would hurt the US solar panel industry. Did they mean Solyndra? Solyndra was just an excuse to raid the treasury, legally. They NEVER intended to produce solar panels. Front door padlocked in a year. Nobody got hammered on MSM for that one, just like all the other purposeful gov scams. And the bullshit about you can sell your extra power back to the utility company. Anybody out there check into it? They don't want your extra power. And if they take it, they give you so little for it, you might as well ground it off or run a front lawn windmill with it. You actually get PUNISHED for putting up those panels. Just more bread and circuses, folks.
Diesel was the way to go 40 years ago. Europe did. Now the way to go is electric/hybrid. Germans are plastering vast numbers of solar panels to their roofs. Using that energy to replace fuel gives a far faster payback than using it for domestic purposes.
Every 2nd car in Norway seems is a Tesla.
Tesla built charge stations across the Southern part of the country.
I was impressed.
I noticed the same on my trip to Norway. I ran into some Norwegians this summer and asked them what the deal was with Tesla's popularity in Norway. They said that a $150,000 Tesla in Norway (retail price + VAT and other crazy Euro taxes) is far less than the $250,000 you'd have to pay for a Mercedes in Norway. So basically due to massive, crippling taxes it is actually cheaper to buy a Tesla in Norway than virtually any other car. So there you have it. If you want to make Tesla's popular just use the tax weapon to make normal cars $250,000 each.
sorry downvoters, but css1971 is correct... every incentive imaginable worldwide is weighted towards hybrids or full electrics... look at the CAFE targets and how they're currently calculated as an example... couple CAFE with emissions targets and there's really only one way for automakers to go...
Diesel is ECE?
Kind of like a Stanley Steamer?
I caught that also
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Forum_for_Harmonization_of_Vehicle_R...
(UN)ECE is this?
I haven't heard much about the EPA's river toxic mine spill/contamination issue lately...how will the atone the American people?
Isn't, " conspiracy to release controlled hazordous chemicals, in a material excess of their permitted amounts on an unsuspecting public / environment " , an act of TERRORISM under modern legislation?
Isn't it now terrorism to know and quote modern legislation against the purposes of big brother?
This will be used to get a harder line on Russia to secure a reduced fine. Maybe a few more nukes on Russia's doorstep and some harsh words for Putin.
Maybe Germany is getting its fill of American exceptionalism. We will know more after the next Hitler video on YouTube.
Not that I'm conspiracy minded or anything...
But this was my first thought knowing that some Germans aren't quite as comfortable as Mutti is to keep racheting up tensions with their next door neighbor.
Gotta keep everyone dancing to the same tune.
Fahrvergnügened
It sounds like they programmed their ECU to recognize the emissions test cycle and then to react accordingly. I would guess that the recall would inly involve a reflash of their programming. Besides, is it really cheating if they did meet the specifications?
On another note, VW diesels (and virtually all manufacturers) never come close to their mileage claims either, now I know why.
I mentioned this to Mrs. Cog the other day, that no auto manufacturer comes within 10-15% of the listed mileage ranges. Which always struck me as rather odd. The government always has a disclaimer saying your mileage will vary, yet no manufacturer ever exceeds the published mileage in real life.
They do in the european tests.
It sounds like the VW test detector runs the motor rich to reduce NOx levels. Then in normal usage runs it lean in order to improve fuel consumption. The less fuel you put in, the more NOx you get out, the nitrogen in the atmosphere also oxidises.
In fact there was a whole "lean burn" technology in the UK which ran engines as lean as possible and then used a catalytic converter to deal with the NOx levels produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean-burn
You need a different type of catalytic converter though to run an engine in lean burn mode...
BTW, If this is the case and VW simply introduce a software fix, what they'll do is run all engines rich and the fuel consumption will go through the roof, power through the floor.
FWIW, the normal lifetime of NOx in the atmosphere is around 1 day. It gets turned into nitric acid when it comes in contact with water, and then into nitrates.
@cog
For most models yes. Korean manufacturers have been notorious for excluding MPG counters to prevent owners from seeing the difference in advertised v actual output. Mini on the other hand, for a good portion of their models, get much better mileage than advertised. I owned one a while ago and my MPG was approx 11 MPG higher than advertised.
its all in how you drive and keeping the tires aligned, air filter cleaned or upgraded and using the correct octane fuel, I often get 10 - 20% over the listed efficiency for my car
I owned (from new) a 2001 Skoda Fabia with the 2.0L VW diesel and a 2010 VW golf with the 1.6L diesel. Neither of them ever came close to what VW claimed, missing by 20%-40%. They make claims like 4l/100km (over 60mpg) but no one in my family could come close.
i has a gas powered car, rated for 22 city and low 30's highway. I easily get 25- 26 mpg driving around town the highway mileage is only noticeably better than rated when i follow (too) close to someone
My car is rated 25 city / 35 highway.
My long-term average is 30.1 MPG.
Best gas mileage I ever had was in my Timberlands
What did you keep your tire pressure at?
Well, than I guess this one's easy. Subtract 15% from the BS sticker. I guess it's just like that no government program ever exceeds, much less achieves, its stated goals.
I have a 2004 Suzuki Aerio SX, from day one through today it has always gotten exactly 30mpg hwy and has over 200k miles on it. Exactly as advertised.
Yes if they are lucky it will just involve a reflash of their programming to meet emissions. The real problem for them will be that once you do that the cars will be no where close to their stated miles per gallon which will lead to massive class action consumer law suits. They are so fucked.
Not to mention sales going forward.... hope they have a massive war chest to fall back on because if the mileage drops significantly people won't be buying VWs to pay for all of this mess.
Spot on. This may be a business killer. The ironic thing is it's all mythological numbers pulled out of the EPA's ass.
If I were the head of VW, I'd seriously be thinking about turning my whole business east. They are also the only manufacturer really pushing high end cars still in Russia (Audi).But this is part of something bigger...
My diesel gets up to 54/gallon. If they take that away, I'll just go back to driving a big gas guzzling truck, since I would like to have a bigger, safer, larger vehicle with more cargo capacity. The drawback to the efficiency and high mileage is the fact that all the SUV drivers' headlights are at eye level in the VW. Take away the mileage advantage and I might as well go back to a big gas guzzler, likely creating more emissions than this will cure.
Go VW, fuck the regs!
Check out the Sprinter's 2.2l Merc. Diesel
Best contractor vehicle out there
1 in 7 German jobs are in the auto industry. Russian sales were down at least 40% due to American mandated sanctions. Germany has entered not a recession but a depression. Merkel is screwed.
BMW and Mercedes are also fucked. No one trusts German cars anymore.
The only way around this emissions issue it to change it all over to Voltagewagen.
Tiime to say "Fuck America" and make deals with Russia.
Now or never.
By the way, Fuck America!
Their market seems to be being taken by audi. bmw and mercedes have gone in the shitter.
VW owns Audi
Yeah, but brand wise, audi is growing while VW is shrinking, and people are electing for a bare bones luxury cars over loaded lower end cars - on credit. Why you ask? Well, isn't everybody?
Diesel is the fuel of choice of Europe, the reason is those idiots won't build refineries like we have in the US. So, they can't afford the extra cost of turning oil into gasoline so they import diesel
Problem with diesel is all the extra inpurities not filtered out like high octane gasoline. No matter how advanced the diesel engine design you have to deal with NOx and the NOx output level is worst at engine idle, so is this is when the exhaust is the dirtiest. If you don't add DEF to burn off the by products and reduce NOx then the only way to pass 2012 US emissions tests with any diesel engine is to program the ECM to factor out exhaust readings during engine idle periods.
NAV is a stock I traded heavily three and four years ago, just go research their failure to adopt DEF, it almost bankrupted the company trying to create so called clean diesel engines.
http://www.dieselforum.org/about-clean-diesel/what-is-scr-
So is the problem that EPA took readings from the onboard computer instead of actually testing the exhaust gases coming from the tail pipe????
That is how I read it. Maybe EPA should be fined for being lazy dumb asses!!!
As I understood it, the computer would run the engine differently when it sensed the emission testing equipment connection.
Another perfect example of the Media not doing their job...they are giving news readers and viewers the impression that the computer helped VW owners pass their emissions test when getting a state inspection. WRONG...it was the NOx data being collected from the ECU (on board engine control unit or computer). VW was averaging the NOx reading when the car was moving instead of when the engine is running. Why?, becuase diesel engines at idle are very dirty, even clean diesel designs becuase diesel has a ton more impurities than gasoline. While an diesel engine is running, especially at higher speeds it can burn off the NOx but at idle it can't unless it employs DEF and an SCR system which were the only ways truck manufacturers could meet 2010 emmissions. Small cars don't due to cost but large trucks do use SCR today, research the stock NAV and their failure to employ SCR, thus the switch to SCR in the commercial and light truck market is the only way to get the EPA blessing and reduce the fees paid to the EPA for emissions.
What Are The Advantages Of OBDII Testing?
OBDII testing is quicker than previous emissions tests. This test determines whether there is a malfunction and/or deterioration of the devices that control the exhaust-emissions level. It can lower repair costs by detecting and storing a code specific to the problem. The OBDII test should readily identify vehicle problems, thereby reducing repair time and costs. This will, in turn, contribute to lower vehicle exhaust emissions.
Reasons Your Vehicle May Have Failed The OBDII Test
Soon the Germans will have several hundred thousand aliens to lend them a hand ... as well as several hundred mouths to feed, bodies to cloth, peeples to be housed.
Bullish!
it'll be offset by the capital investment in mass mosque-building and the surge in economic demand for rape kits
@JunckerEU proposes extra financing #migrantcris 100 mil 4 affected states 200 million- WFoodProgramme up to 1 bil- Turkey 700 mil- FYROM -- http://fredw-catharsisours.blogspot.com/
“Jean-Claude Juncker had been obliged to resign his position as Prime Minister of Luxembourg after it was revealed that he belonged to the Atlantic Alliance spy network Gladio. One year later, he became President of the European Commission.” -- Thierry Meyssan ,Voltaire Network
Volkswagen rigs software to cheat emissions tests.
Hedge funds rig software to cheat the SEC.
Michelle Obama rigs medical science to cheat her male gender.
Barry Soetoro uses sofware to forge a fake birth certificate.
George Bush rigs software to create false WMD's in Iraq.
The Mossad rigs the World Trade Center with explosives, and rigs software to hijack airliners to fly into the buildings.
ISIS rigs software to make fake beheading videos.
CNN uses software to make fake news reports.
US neocons use software, among other metods, to create ISIS, a fake (real) terrorist outfit.
COMEX rigs software to make it look like it actually has gold, when it doesn't.
Hillary rigs software to cheat those looking for her emails.
THE LIST GOES ON. WHY IS THIS NEWS???????
If only they had allowed the unions into their US plants, this would never have happened
Let me check my Cliff's Notes Quran, all the answers are there.
Could VW be the black swan many have been seeking?
If half of this article is correct, it very well may be.
For me, after living in an inherited house for almost six years and then having the "glorious and beneficient" bank pay me almost $10K (after paying the taxes and insurance as well), I am disappointed I didn't have the foresight to purchase a VW Passat or Rabbit. Had I done so, I would be taking a "free ride."
Cue the Edgar winter Group...
Black beetle.
We have not needed coal, oil, or nuclear for energy for more than thirty years:
Source: https://youtu.be/0gVLv5eg4Xg?t=5093
See: SIRIUS The Movie
Freaky diggy bbbbb Buck!
The Americans feel that they can Fine any other Company in the World thus protecting it's own market share..........
When the Countries of the World file Class action lawsuits agiant the Warmongering, human rights violators and corupt monitary system there will be another False Flag in which the records of holdngs of Shorts in Gold mining etc. will vanish.
There should be a Website that shows where major players in the various crimes being commited World wide and when you see the Rats scatter You would know where you don't want to be.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the pushback from the US stationing new nuclear weapons in Germany <sarc> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-22/us-will-station-new-nuclear-wea...
American Economic Terrorism at it's finest. Try the case in the main scream media and hope that no one digs into the legal basis of the allegations.
Just bought an Audi recently. It's a fantastic car. Now I'm even more impressed with the company.
The grave error made by VW (and the German .gov for allowing it to happen) is to have taken such a huge risk with this phony s/w when the German car industry is not only renowned the world over but it represents a massively important sector of the German economy. This is a failure of staggering proportions. Heads must roll.
That's a very naive view of the world you have there.
If the German economy relies so much on its motor car production reputation, is it not foolhardy to take such a high risk with this trick?
So you believe that there's only one cockroach? Woud you hold the same view if you found out that all cars running a Bosch system are doing the sam? What if you found out that all ECU manufacturers are doing this?
My comments were about Germany and the importance of the car industry to its economy. More so than most other countries.
It may be that other countries play similar tricks but the economic risks & consequences for Germany are greater, so they should have been extra extra careful to avoid it.
That's plain commonsense, not naive.
And what if VW/Germany played by the rules and as a result couldn't sell any cars because they couldn't meet the emissions standards whilst their competitor's cheating cars continue to sell. They may gain the moral high ground but they die in the process. Put yourself in the position of the CEO. How would you make your decision?
btw - I don't think hitting the down arrow improves your argument in the least.
I don't see how this as any different than an owner chipping their own car...that's not illegal is it?
Two completely different issues.
Firstly, what's worth pointing out here is that the modern car "manufacturer" is not a manufacturer at all. The modern "manufacturer" is actually an assember only. The components are made by a variety of suppliers and sub-contractors. The most common form of Engine Management System on a VW is manufactured by Bosch. VW do not programme their own ECU's. They buy them pre-programmed by Bosch. That puts Bosch in the firing line.
Secondly, I understand that the switching programme was discovered by some students who were looking for something else. In which case, those same students need to get a hold of an ECU from every other ECU manufacturer and look for the same programme sequence. They are sure to find it. VW weren't doing this because they are up against different laws of physics compared to their competitors.
Lastly, it is very common practice in the UK to have your ECU "chipped". The terminology stems from the early days of ECUs when the entire EEPROM was required to be removed form the ECU in order to reprogramme it or substitute another EEPROM with a different programme. Nowadays the memory in the ECU is able to be flashed through the OBD socket and is referred to as "re-mapping". All engines manufactured today are de-tuned to meet the emissions standard. however, that means they have lots of power and torque which is unused and bizzarrely have poorer fuel consumption as a result. The available power and torque can be released by re-mapping the ECU. One benefit of having your ECU re-mapped is that if you are not heavy footed thus using the additional power on offer then you get that restraint back in the form of greatly increased mpg (15-20%). The only way that anyone is going to know the ECU has been remapped is to download the mapping from the ECU and compare it with an exemplar. I don't know what proportion of the cars in the UK have been remapped but it will be in the 10s of thousands. Remapping in the UK is akin to the 70's penchant for hanging furry dice from your mirror. Everyone's doing it.
Testing/calibration equipment should be called into question too.
What about software controlled medical devices??
Everything in this world is a scam. Grab what you can!
I should have made it clear above that Bosch supply Engine Management Systems to many car manufacturers. Are we to believe that Bosch only designed the cheating map for VW and no-one else? Why is no-one calling for the CEO of Bosch to stand up and be counted here?
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...
Learn how emissions accelerate climate change and how you can help reduce your carbon footprint.
http://www.bosch-climate.com.au/education-centres/climate-energy.html
You missed the /sarc tag.
doh!
thanks for the tip ;-)
For $650 I got a Cobb AccessPort. Using an OTS(Off the Shelf) map alone I went from 25MPG to nearly 30. I've been refining the tune and now safely get just over 30MPG. It isn't rocket science. Combustion happens efficiently at stoich, you just have to monitor AFR and intake/exhause temps to make sure you are not scorching the combustion chamber(detonation).
May I ask what kind of vehicle?
Mazdaspeed 3. The key to getting higher mileage with this car is to stay out of boost. You get into boost and the MPG pretty much craters.
Edit: I just want to add that my car came programmed to run "pig rich." The ECU was dumping tons of fuel into the combustion chamber. Extra fuel is usually added to keep temps down and avoid detonation(knocking.) There was a lot of room in my ECU programming to pull back on fuel delivery and still run knock-free. I also took out boost in 1st gear and the lower rpms of 2nd gear. In a front wheel drive car all you are going to do is spin tires boosting down low.
Good points, don't forget though the emissions testing in each state using OBDII don't review NOx emmissions data they look for these failures below and have the car owner fix before getting their inspection sticker. What the administration is upset with is VW didn't play ball with them and give as much in EPA emmissions fees and fines as did Gov't Motors. ECU programs should not count engine idle data on diesel it will fail 2010 emissions everytime unless you add SCR and the DEF fluid to the exhaust system.
Here is what state inspections check for when they hook up to the ECM.
What Are The Advantages Of OBDII Testing?
OBDII testing is quicker than previous emissions tests. This test determines whether there is a malfunction and/or deterioration of the devices that control the exhaust-emissions level. It can lower repair costs by detecting and storing a code specific to the problem. The OBDII test should readily identify vehicle problems, thereby reducing repair time and costs. This will, in turn, contribute to lower vehicle exhaust emissions.
Reasons Your Vehicle May Have Failed The OBDII Test
So you're saying that this is no Fluke...
I guess all those new immigrants won't have jobs after all.
I have a VW diesel and I love it. It gets great mileage. I've gotten it up to 54 miles a gallon at times. If that performance comes at the expense of cheating on California's CARB emissions standards, I say do it! Double Down on it! Fuck the environment-caring about it doesn't matter til' China and India get onboard, anyway. I couldn't care less if VW cheats on emissions standards if I get a better ride out of it. Fuck California. We all know California's CARB is a stupid pain in the ass, anyway. Their unelected bureaucrats are able to make environmental requirements that end up affecting the entire country. Anyone remember when they forced fuel refineries to put a toxic chemical in CA fuel to improve the air, but it turned out that chemical also poisoned water? Anyone remember when their mandates on new and "improved" jerry cans meant we couldn't get the old military surplus ones anymore and we had to buy the cheap plastic ones with the stupid safety nozzles that leak everywhere? Those CARB-compliant cans suck balls! I couldn't care less if my diesel meets California's emissions requirements. My home state's requirements are another story, but they're not as rigorous as CA and the car probably meets them as it is. In any case, I prefer performance and mileage.
Setting the engine to perform within the state parameters during the test seems reasonable to me, since during the test the car did, in fact, meet the requirements. I just hope they don't screw up my car now to meet their stupid standards. If I'm getting 20/gallon after this, I'll just have to switch to a regular gas guzzler, like a Ford F300, or something. I traded the comfort and safety of a giant redneck land tank for the mileage of the diesel. I can go back if they eliminate the benefits of having the diesel.
Watch California pass an emergency measure and ban VW's from their roads over this. Would anyone be surprised?
They will do it for Tesla and their chosenite hero Elon.
Ford and GM just pay the fees to the EPA, they don't care, they raise prices of their cars to offset the cost. This is one reason US automakers are not buiding entry level TDI category cars like VW. They stick to gasoline which is much cleaner than diesel, Europe is dependent on diesel because of their lack of refineries thus gasoline is too expensive there.
When GM and Ford do build a diesel they tend to put that engine in their truck category where they have added DEF systems which is the only way to meet 2012 EPA emissions. However the average car buyer doesn't want the extra costs and hassle of keeping a second tank filled on their car.
I don't drive a diesel, but I do drive interstates a lot, so I refuel at truck stops quite often. I was under the impression DEF is mixed into the highway diesel now at the pump.
I actually feel sorry for the gum chewing public; they're clueless to the fact that E.P.A.'s definition of "pollution" is constantly changing. It's like showing up to an NBA game where the hoops are 14 feet high and smaller in circumference. The stupid fans would scold the players for making fewer baskets with no dunks instead of scolding the NBA for changing the rules. The same public now believes that well performing TDI cars are "bad" because da E.P.A. told them so. I'd love to stand any clueless idiot next to a GM TDH-5101 "Old Look" bus so that they can experience what real pollution is like.
Gina McCarthy is a tyrant abusing the power invested in her Bureau. Nixon did many foolish things, worst of which was opening the EPA.
You can still get the NATO cans off amazon, without the CARB spout.
Just to add salt to the wound, a substitute player came on in Wolfsburg's soccer match against bayern munich last night and sccored five goals in nine minutes. Broke a few records and few hearts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61_FOPBVyzQ
I just had a hilarious thought.
Russia should also fine the hell out of them for this!!! LOL
Just like the president's economic data it is "massaged", specifically the readings of NOx performance passed on by OBDII data collected in diesel engine state inspections. However don't be fooled by the Media's coverage on this, have any of them explained what is tested in a state inspection?
Here it is...
What Are The Advantages Of OBDII Testing?
OBDII testing is quicker than previous emissions tests. This test determines whether there is a malfunction and/or deterioration of the devices that control the exhaust-emissions level. It can lower repair costs by detecting and storing a code specific to the problem. The OBDII test should readily identify vehicle problems, thereby reducing repair time and costs. This will, in turn, contribute to lower vehicle exhaust emissions.
Reasons Your Vehicle May Have Failed The OBDII Test
The real issue here is MONEY not clean air in our cities, which we got with 2006 emmissions, more restrictions were not necessary even if you buy into man made global warming theory.
The EPA could care less about the actual emissions of clean diesel engines, the Federal gov't is upset because if VW had not factored out engie idle exhuast data then their data would look more like GM's and that would have meant much more $$$,$$$ in fees paid by VW.
The problem for VW is they didn't play ball, they wanted to keep their car prices down for consumers thus they weren't playing crony capitalist like GM was with the EPA and Whitehouse. When you don't play ball with this administration they will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Since GM is gov't motors and essentially subsidized by the Federal Govt's Executive Branch they don't have to worry about paying more in fees and fines to EPA but VW does who has a huge stake in clean diesel and making a great product at low prices for the consumer.
I think it's funny as Hell. Anything the German's can do to defeat the f*cking EPA is fine by me. More power to them.
The scammers here are the EPA and their ridiculous testing scams trying to make zero emissions from a gasoline engine.
They have screwed with the gasoline making it less efficient, lowering mileage, and damaging engines and components,,, adding devices and programming to reduce emissions for testing but also lowering mileage per gallon making it a zero sum gain for customers while driving up the prices where now 7-10 year car loans are becoming common.
Like the central bank PhD's that have destroyed the economies of the world,,, the PhD's in the EPA have no idea how the mechanics of an air engine work nor do they care.... they're a bunch of numbers cruncher's.
I applaud VW for giving us a 50+ mpg automobile but that will be history now. They will correct their programming which will reduce mileage or eliminate the engine altogether.
This is a microcosm of why they push Global Warming. They want control over all manufacturing, choking and fining it out of existence.
This while they ignore there own stupid mistakes (most likely on purpose) dumping waste water into the Animas River. Typical government parasites.
Does any of this factor in the superior fuel mileage of the diesels?
Yes, which is why the US wants to keep them out.
First off, fuck the EPA. Secondly, this card has been up someone's sleeve for a while. It's only news to the sheeple.
I think we're entering an era of ratting out dirty shirts hoping to end up with a cleaner one. Watch how every entity starts turning against one another. All the glass houses will break. Pass the popcorn.
So the German Government knew of this ...... following Merkel and her government handling of the Ukraine problem , the sanctions agaisnt Russia , the scuttling of the South stream project , the Greek disaster that has only been left unsolved because Greece cannot possibly pay forever , the refugee crisis , how many more disasters can Merkel accumulate without being fired from her job ? She has shown to be an incompetent puppet , whose loyalties are to her zionist controllers and Not the German people or the EU ciitizens . Get lost Merkel
Any chance this has nothing to do with VW and evrything to do with right to work? VW suffers , maybe closes a plant that voted not to unionize?
"Far from representing an isolated, “contained” event, revelations that the company used software to game diesel emissions tests have the very real potential to reverberate throughout the German economy. "
What's the big deal, hell Johnson & Johnson killed people with their malfeasance and it's all good for them.
Trade war here we come! The first shots have been fired.
Just that we are all clear on this regular folks lose in this kind of war too. Just like every other kind of warfare the governments can dream up. Regular honest people lose every so called war.
Guess who is going to get stuck with the bill for this war?
So how many people that own these cars and learned of this and the allegations that a fix will lower fuel economy, will actually participate in the recall?
How many will take their superbly performing vehicle and allow the dealer to fuck it up so that it meets a government standard??
They simply wont be given a choice.
Not a problem. Merkel will just take in more muslims and that'll make it all right. If she takes in enough Obama will give her a pass on this.
Stan Meyer offered a solution with zero emissions and no petroleum consumption, but he was murdered.
https://youtu.be/uidDHEaxxlE?t=435