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This Is "Getting Really Ugly, Really Fast": Two Thirds Of Recent Graduates Say US College Education Is A Ripoff
If there was any question about whether college students in the US were getting wise to the fact that their degrees may not be worth the $35K (on average) they’re paying for them, that question was answered earlier this year with one hilarious graduation cap:
Yes, “Game of Loans,” and as the student debt bubble balloons into the trillions, the federal government has come to realize that, to quote Bill Ackman, there’s “no way” students are ever going to pay back all of this debt, which is why the Obama administration is promoting (and we mean explicitly promoting) IBR programs that in many cases ensure former students will have at least a portion of their student debt forgiven thereby guaranteeing taxpayer losses on government higher education loans will run into the tens and probably hundreds of billions of dollars.
Assessing what role students have played in this is akin to asking what role potential homeowners played in the housing bubble. That is, the government has held up certain ideals (i.e. the right to homeownership and the right to pursue post secondary education) as inalienable and so while there’s an extent to which people have to be accountable for the money they borrow, when you pitch these things as being on par with John Locke’s natural rights and then move to effectively subsidize them by either driving interest rates into the ground or passing out trillions in loans to students who you know have no hope of paying it all back, you create a scenario whereby borrowers can then claim they were misled, mistreated, and ultimately defrauded.
That was the case with the housing bubble and, thanks to the fact that today’s college graduates are entering a job market that despite all the rosy rhetoric, is actually nothing more than a bartender creation machine, former students are now looking with disdain at the tens of thousands in student loans they must now figure out how to pay back while bringing in less than the median national yearly income which is itself largely insufficient when it comes to servicing large lines of credit.
It is with all of the above in mind that we bring you the following from WSJ who reports that two thirds of students who graduated in the last nine years and whose debt matches or exceeds the national average do not believe their degree was worth the cost. Here’s more:
Recent college graduates are significantly less likely to believe their education was worth the cost compared with older alumni and one of the main reasons is student debt, which is delaying millennials from buying homes and starting families and businesses.
The insight into the generational divide comes courtesy of the second annual Gallup-Purdue Index, which polled more than 30,000 college graduates during the first six months of this year.
Former Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels created the survey when he became president of Purdue University in 2013 in an effort to better understand the value of a college education from the people who should know best—alumni.
The steep decline in the perception of whether a degree was worth the cost startled Brandon Busteed, Gallup’s executive director for education and workforce development.
Overall, 52% of graduates of public schools “strongly agreed” that their education was worth the expense, compared with 47% of private-school graduates. Among graduates of private for-profit universities, just 26% felt the same.
About two-thirds of college students graduate with debt, with an average load of about $35,000.
According to the Index, only 33% of alumni who graduated between 2006 and 2015 with that amount of debt strongly agreed that their university education was worth the cost.
On the one hand, this suggests that going forward, students may demand some combination of the following three things, i) lower tuition, ii) better coordination between those who design curriculums and employers, and hopefully iii) efforts to create a more robust jobs market characterized by rising wage growth and real opportunity for graduates.
Unfortunately, the more likely outcome will be that demand for higher education will simply dry up, thereby creating an even larger divide between the skills set of America's youth and that of job seekers around the globe. But don't take our word for it, just ask Gallup’s executive director for education and workforce development Brandon Busteed who spoke to The Journal:
“When you look at recent graduates with student loans it gets really ugly, really fast. If alumni don’t feel they’re getting their money’s worth, we risk this tidal wave of demand for higher education crashing down.”
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I was taught by the same teachers, so what is their excuses again? They love the beast system and will worship the anti-chrsit willingly.
Well, define "Forced"
Job market destroyed, future destroyed, pretty much a lot of peoples only hope at all for the future was a college degree. So I do feel bad for these KIDS, remember it's KIDS we are talking about here. Even the STEM graduates haven't quite figured out there'snofuture for them, as the H!B's will be flown in to take their jobs.
Force involves physical violence or the threat of violence or other sanctions. It does not include the distress caused by having limited options. One can't honestly claim that one was forced to eat a peanut butter sandwich, for example, simply because that was the only food in the fridge.
force fôrs/ noun noun: force-
1.
strength or energy as an attribute of physical action or movement.
-
Physics
an influence tending to change the motion of a body or produce motion or stress in a stationary body. The magnitude of such an influence is often calculated by multiplying the mass of the body by its acceleration.
-
a person or thing regarded as exerting power or influence.
plural noun: forces
-
used with a number as a measure of wind strength on the Beaufort scale.
-
2.
coercion or compulsion, especially with the use or threat of violence.
-
3.
mental or moral strength or power.
-
the state of being in effect or valid.
-
the powerful effect of something.
-
4.
an organized body of military personnel or police.
-
troops and weaponry.
plural noun: forces
-
a group of people brought together and organized for a particular activity.
-
informal
a police department.
noun: the force
-
5.
Baseball
a force-out.
-
a situation in which a force-out is possible.
verb verb: force; 3rd person present: forces; past tense: forced; past participle: forced; gerund or present participle: forcing"he was thrown backward by the force of the explosion" synonyms: strength, power, energy, might, effort, exertion; More
impact, pressure, weight, impetus
"he pushed with all his force" antonyms: weakness
"he might still be a force for peace and unity" synonyms: agency, power, influence, instrument, vehicle, means
"a force for good"
"a force-nine gale"
"they ruled by law and not by force" synonyms: coercion, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, harassment, intimidation, threats; More
informalarm-twisting, bullying tactics
"they used force to achieve their aims"
"the force of popular opinion"
"the law came into force in January" synonyms: effective, in operation, operative, operational, in action, valid
"the law is now in force"
"the force of her writing is undiminished" synonyms: cogency, potency, weight, effectiveness, soundness, validity, strength, power, significance, influence, authority; More
informalpunch; formalefficacy
"the force of the argument" antonyms: weakness
"a soldier in a UN peacekeeping force" synonyms: body, body of people, group, outfit, party, team; More
detachment, unit, squad; border patrol; informalbunch
"a peace-keeping force"
"concealment from enemy forces"
"a sales force"
-
1.
make a way through or into by physical strength; break open by force.
-
drive or push into a specified position or state using physical strength or against resistance.
-
achieve or bring about (something) by coercion or effort.
-
push or strain (something) to the utmost.
-
artificially hasten the development or maturity of (a plant).
synonyms:
extract, elicit, exact, extort, wrest, wring, drag, screw, squeeze
-
2.
make (someone) do something against their will.
-
rape (a woman).
-
Baseball
put out (a runner), or cause (a runner) to be put out, at the base to which they are advancing when they are forced to run on a batted ball.
-
(in cards) make a play or bid that compels another player to make (a particular response); make a play or bid that compels (another player) to make such a response.
Origin Middle English: from Old French force (noun), forcer (verb), based on Latin fortis ‘strong.’ Translate force to Use over time for: force"they broke into Fred's house and forced every cupboard door with ax or crowbar" synonyms: break open, burst open, knock down, smash down, kick in
"the door had to be forced"
"she forced her feet into flat leather sandals" synonyms: propel, push, thrust, shove, drive, press, pump
"water was forced through a hole"
"Sabine forced a smile"
"she knew if she forced it she would rip it"
"they forced a confession out of the kids"
"she was forced into early retirement" synonyms: compel, coerce, make, constrain, oblige, impel, drive, pressurize, pressure, press, push, press-gang, bully, dragoon, bludgeon; More
informalput the screws on, lean on, twist someone's arm
"he was forced to pay"
"I was forced at second base as the first half of a double play"
"East could force declarer to ruff another spade"
LOL point taken Bill, but admitt all your definations were a little bit overkill...
Not being Dr. Johnson I am loath to edit the dictionary.
We are getting fucking " off- shored" in our own backyard.
I'm waiting to see H1b get approved to work in government. You know, to cut costs.
Lately, the fucking Hispanics that have ruined the price structure of the construction industry, ( illegal invaders) , are getting right cocky.
Anybody else that have to work around these cocksuckers notice this?
@NoPension
Work around them? I had to work so far around them I had to leave the country.
Its like these punks don't even appreciate an std and drug habit any more
Little fuckers hanging around in god damn COFFEE SHOPS! They really are missing a lot.
6 years of easy living and sex, no 8-5 dead end job, and yes the ability to claim that I am a victim and need a bailout. I love student loans.
Which generations perpetuated their brainwashing? All the previous ones who also have spent the borrowed "money" today and in the past, leaving the future to pay for their debts. All are guilty in some respect depending on the degree of participation in this "system."
The majority of Millenials loved all that Hopey & Changey shit.
Harvard is a 'hedge fund with a university attached to it'
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-harvard-should-be-taxed-2015-9
The same goes for Stanford (endowment: $21.4 billion), Princeton (endowment: $21 billion), Yale (endowment$23.9 billion), and the country’s other elite institutions of higher education.
First off Hitlery, FUCK YOU!!!
Second let's not forget that our loans for a generally useless education still figure as a small fraction of the staggering, unrepayable debt that our fucktard Boomer parents have consigned to not only us, but to our grandkids. When WW3 begins in an effort to rebalance the global economy, the world will be given a great gift when you hit a tripwire that slashes through your undoubtedly small nutsack.
Hitlery - Your an idiot; with, no doubt a double digit IQ and no education. ZH has become a place where trolls seem to flourish. A shame as this used to be a very civilized forum.
LOL I have a college degree, own my own business have have been a member with several differnet user names since ZH's inception in 2009. It's spelled You're, not your.
Ive been telling starry eyed parents and dipshit college bound students for more than a decade that they should save their money and apprentice with a plumber or tradesman.
They look at me like I pissed on their shoe. then awkwardly truncate the dialogue and have to be somewhere else (maybe the mall?).
enjoy your debt and servitude idiots, you deserve it.
Exactly what I was thinking but would add,no debt forgiveness.
These "Party School Debtors" aren't as important as the TBTF assholes.
These college morons don't deserve zero interest money.
What's so stupid is that there are enough of these dummies to vote to change things. OH! WAIT! They would vote for Dems & Reps. How in the hell has that worked over the last 50 years?
FMTT
Yes. Crash, crash down. Only such a shock could possibly change the system -- and only part of it. Much will carry on via gov't subsidy with little to no relation to the outside world. But we still have a solid decade before all of higher education is completely lost.
Were these calfs not taught to love the State? Just cry out for more taxpayer rape.
Heh, suckers.
Who cares about student's debt. Go to work in Germany or other place. And forget about debt in US.
Germany was a nice place but it will become a Pakistani violent shithole thanks to the UN-zio plan to destroy wh*te countries.
Very odd that university presidents & his staff, the regents, curators, governors, trustee's, administrators and professors don't feel the same way.
Wouldn't you say? ;-)
It's a club. And you ain't fucking in it.
Never forget the head football coach.
But but . Gov borrowed on thier future earrings and thier kids too. Do something
I have no sympathy for these people with loans. Especially if they got a degree in something that has nothing to offer in the way of productivity.
Such as those bastians of productivity, finance and law, right?
ha ha this is one of my favorite tables as to what is wrong with the US : http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d14/tables/dt14_322.10.asp
college graduates by field of study. we obviously need more psychologists than engineers.
We likely do. There are millions of Americans who believe that government should be kept out of their lives but in every body elses.
We call these people "bi-polar", "schizophrenic" or just plain nuts, in clinical terms.
Produce what? Study what?
If your are proficient, productive, earn a good wage, and are in the private sector..... They are looking to replace you. With a legal or illegal immigrant fucking invader. Who is accustomed to living at 20% of your lifestyle, so working at half your wages is ok.
Soon, when we are all dead fucking broke, what will it matter?
"Bernie Sanders - enter stage right!!"
Hate the game and the players. Cant have one without the other.
So BigGovEd ain't workin out so well?
It is working as planned, since the inception of the Department of Education, the US has gone from 2nd in the world in Math and Science and has made it all the way to 22nd.
http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-rankings-2013-12
Without Asian kids those math and engineering numbers would be half.
I liked the homeland security, police and firefighting, up 30x. Think you'll need a degree in the future to be a professional TSA groper-perv?
Speaking of groping, did anyone else catch the NYT article saying pedophilia was a disorder, NOT a crime? I guess the NAMBLAs are next in line to come flying out the closet. Now that we've welcomed the queers and the trannys to the world of special legal status.
I go out of my way to not read the NY Times or watch TV or Hollywood. They are all scum.
Years ago, a NY Times young person called on a Sunday to try to sell my the NY Times on the phone. I was polite because they have a shit job. I told them I would not take the "paper" if they gave it to me for free or paid me to take it.
That is great news for all of them. Now you will be able to get SS disabililty if you are a perv.
In the brave new world nothing will be wrong or right, just a standard deviation to the left or right of norm...without be an actual deviant.
Big numbers are better.
Aren't they?
Yes, especially on the deficits and debt.
Obviously 1/3 of students are too stupid for college.
$35k wont buy you one year's tution at most 4 year colleges
I think these pollsters forgot something - ask the PARENTS who also took out loans for the kiddies on top of that 35k in the kiddies' names whether they'd do it all over again... lulz Probably not when they go bankrupt and jr is still sleeping in his childhood room.
The Student Loans scam is one of the reasons why I engineered the complete destruction of Wall Street, America, and the one per cent.
Note: No one rips me off, and gets away with it, ever.
Payback is a bitch, eh, Wall Street.
Wait till you pay the debt you owe to God; good times..NOT! However, He is kind and offers complete "Debt Forgiveness"; most have heard of it this plan, but don't take the free gift...pride you know; its a real killer.
Actually, God owes me BIG time, and I will collect on that debt.
You already tried and are a defeated foe; the effort was good, but you severely underestimated your opponent and were out-classed. I forgot to add; God will give you exactly what you are owed, not anymore or less, for He is honest.
I only underestimated shaddow banking, but that does not matter given the fact that all of my engineering is working according to my plan. Things are just taking a little longer than I first thought, but all is well and good from where I sit. I cannot say the same for the one per cent, America, or Wall Street.
Behold the looming glut of Sugar Babies with hands extended and vaginas cleanly shaven.
Sigh.
I gotta go buy me one of them flashy suits and a new car.
By the time she figures out that I have no money, I'll be tired of her whiny ass anyhow and can start interviewing credulous replacements.
Grateful Dead 7-4-89 Rich Stadium Orchard Park NY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_C7lpzwba0
"Two Thirds Of Recent Graduates Say US College Education Is A Ripoff"Duh, you think? And what, pray tell, are all these clever, informed and courageous young people and their sponsors doing about it?
(Did you say they are all on massive amounts of Hopium? My subroutines are amused.)
The world needs ditch diggers, too. [/Judge Smails]
The idea of them all having PhDs and a crushing mountain of debt on their shoulders warms the cockles of my flinty little heart.
About time the Democratic Party rediscovered its blue collar roots.
So you are saying $50K of debt for a degree in Mongolian Lesbian Women's Studies isn't worth it?
It sure as hell is. Every college in America is under pressure to endow a Mongo-Lez chair. If you got a degree, you're practically guaranteed a lifetime of fascinating insight into Urdu sexual practices.
And the best part is that your loans will be forgiven because you are idealistically working for the state. Fuck that STEM bullshit with all the numbers and homework and crap like that.
Here's the probelm in a nutshell: too many college students go to college to get a degree. What they should do is get an education, and if they did that, they'd find the degree is now worth something.
News flash: it's the education that makes you worth something, not the degree.
If they got an actual "education," they wouldn't have any friends because neither one could relate to the other.
Interpretation: You are not college material if you don't come from the 95% and up socio-economic status hierarchy.
I am a college professor; my guess is that you are not. I've seen thousands of students through the years, smart, not so smart, and in between.
Most students--70 percent or so?--are more focused on having a good time, and not working to their potential. They are done after four years, followed the "C's get degrees" path to their diploma, and lo and behold, nobody wants to hire them.
Wonder why? The habits you develop in school follow you into the workplace. C's get degrees, but unless there's something deeper than that, they don't get careers.
BTW, it's about maximizing your abilities and potential--and that isn't always GPA. The most impressive student I've ever taught graduated with a 2.20 GPA. He had a serious learning disability, had to read his textbooks into a tape recorder and listen to them as his dyslexia prevented him from parsing texts directly. But he would not be denied, and in the end, asked me to write him a letter of recommendation.
I did. It was hard to write, but in the end, I focused on his drive, willingness to work, and stick-to-it-iveness. Valuable traits, and ones that served him well when IBM hired him.
News flash from a college professor to all you current and former students: you either work to get your money's worth, or you spend a lot of money to get little in return. It's always been that way, and I'm shocked that many haven't yet figured it out.
Most Americans are oblivious to what 'education' means, as evident by the ZH peanut gallery. What worries me is American Universities have become degree factories, far overexpanding their capacity beyond the supply of truly worthy students.
I took my first college course at the age of 32 in the year 1981 and I graduated with a four year dual degree in Business management/Marketing at the age of 35 (3 years).
This was in the year 1984. I thought I was gonna get me a big fat ass high paying job.
Ha!
I gots some news for ya. Ya gonna start at the bottom sweepin' floors, even if you do have a four year degree.
And you will eventually get a big fat ass high paying job if you can prove you can solve problems and actually be worth a shit.
Thats unless ya gots some connections... baby.
You don't want to know what upper-tier university administrators make.
I have one in the immediate family.
You just don't want to fucking know.
If it weren't for endless student loan availability, these salaries would at least be cut in half, and they would still be high by corporate standards.
They all belong to a small teir of academics who are defined by their race and their educational achivement up to PhD level. Next comes the "right" Schools, right curriculums, their right theises, and the right Proffessors who can acclaim you, within the individual career "community."
Oncce you are in the club, you have to "belong," publish, be known in your field, and above all, never, - never hold a conflicting thought to those that are the current titans in your Profession.
They and the federal workers will all be a privileged class in the near future. That is the way of the socialist.
You don't want to know what my distant relatives who are literally just admin Federal workers are going to retire at. Think 100% full pay for low stress jobs. They make more than family practice doctors. Oh, and it is not from their own 401k's.
They are killing the state and soon the Fed budgets, too.
I have four friends that are millionaires only one has a tertiary education
My child saw the light after year one.
Dad is happy.
A university is a place to get an education, as in to learn some shit.
Getting an education is not the same thing as getting marketable job skills.
Unfortunately for this group of poor bastards, they didn't consider whether they would have marketable job skills once they completed their education.
I'm in the STEM bucket of graduates and feel I got my money's worth. And the H1-B visa crowd are not as competitive/useful as some might believe.
B.S. - Bull S***
M.S. - More S***
P.H.D. - Piled High Dung or Pig Headed Dic* (Readers Choice)
Ph D = parasitic human dungbeetle in most cases
or Piled High and Deep
A degree has always been a rip off unless you went into a very specialized area (sciences, engineering, mathematics, etc.). Standard liberal arts majors have always been worthless. Likewise, the core freshman/sophmore courses required by most universities are wastes of time for most and exist mainly to pad the bottom line of the University. I always wondered why as a dual engineering and physics major 35 years ago, why I had to sit through a college level literature course, another couple of history courses, and a few other ridiculous mandatory courses (even after exempting out of all manner of BS via the AP system from high school) when most of the material had absolutely nothing to do with my course of study.
“Cecil Graham: What is a cynic?
Lord Darlington: A man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.
Cecil Graham: And a sentimentalist, my dear Darlington, is a man who sees an absurd value in everything and doesn’t know the market price of any single thing.”
? Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/390191-cecil-graham-what-is-a-cynic-lord...
Suddenly, they have my respect.
Don’t pay, F the professor out of their tenure and pension. LOL
Don't quite know how this works, do you?
What matters is how you handle the school of hard knocks.
All you young guys out there, I write this for you. I hope you understand what it is I'm trying to say...
If there actually was a knight alive today.
Picture a knight in shining armor riding a black horse as he enters the field of battle.
He sits tall in the saddle, confident that he is capable of winning at any cost.
You may wonder, "Just how did he get there"?
He was chosen because he was a volunteer.
And his appointment hinged on one attribute - He had courage.
But he did not learn courage - courage is a gift.
He was born with it, as are we all born with it.
This courage, which he was born with, made this knight fearless in the face of opposition.
Many knights lived to be very old, and fought many battles, yet they were not large, or perfect by any means.
Knights of old were not chosen because they were large, or ugly.
Ability certainly may have had a part in their destiny, but it was not the deciding factor in their fate.
The reason is:
1. They were committed.
2. They fought for a cause, not for the battle itself.
3. The battle was a means to an end to which they believed was worthy of their efforts.
4. It was worthy of their life, if necessary.
Do you wonder what it took for him to attain his stature or his ability?
If there actually was a knight alive today and you could meet him, imagine what he might look like.
If you looked closely - what you would see is that his armor is dented and beaten from many battles, but none of them fatal.
He has been hit, knocked down, knocked off his steed, insulted, abused, and he is not easy to look at.
But if you looked closely - what you would see is he is still sitting there - tall in the saddle.
Yes - He is still there, alive, and poised for battle.
Because he will not give up.
Because he is a warrior that just won't die.
He can train in the art of defense and attack, but it does little good if he runs in the face of adversity.
He has attained that status and he is due all the respect of a king's first knight.
He has arrived at that station due to that gift of courage; because he just keeps getting up.
Sounds like your knight had parents who encouraged, taught, and disciplined him and reared him with expectations.
Children are to be reared, not simply entertained.
If you want your children to grow to be worthy adults, do your part as a parent. It is pretty rewarding.
"This is getting really ugly really fast"
No Shit. Just read the comments. And I thought we were all basically on the same side except for the paid trolls. It's going to take a little more organization and leadership here.
Actually, I think writing down the debt is probably more productive than spending untold amounts bombing the world. At least there should be more intelligent Americans ready to produce rather than hundreds of corpses. Don't worry millenials, "The Donald" will have work for you before too long
Don't pay auto loans either. Who gives a shit? Auto manufactures cannot weather a 5-year drought, they’ll fund you again after a year or two. You’ll need a note, “I won’t default again.”
Why pay on the credit card? It’s mostly stuff that’s long gone and the workers who made it got $0.17 an hour. Call it even.
debtucation? Hows all that STEM working out for you libtards who voted for the assmonkey in chief?
I will gladly help to teach you poor souls a trade or two to make up for the stupidity of your decisions.
Blaming the millenials? How about those fucking scumbag baby boomers. Created ridiculously high salaries and lifetime pensions for the successive generations to pay for. FUCK BABY BOOMERS. DIE MOTHERFUCKERS DIE!!!!
it is the debt money system you stupid
fucjer.
At least these recent college graduates understand that global warming is going to kill us all unless we recycle. That knowledge is priceless!
College may never be worth the price to many grads. Will it be the end of higher edumacation? No. The academe in the ivory towers r deliberate and careful, networked and aware. They r custodians of science and stewards of the deep state. They r the original brain drain. Anyway, there will be massive end of life health care medicine bubble before universities are reformed.
Not bein well edgucated myself its funny. They didnt do the math. Not one of um did the fucking math.
Thats one big zombie horde.
Normalcy Bias
...a lot of that going around these days...
The flock is in for a very rude awakening.
Tick tock, tick tock...
Does anyone here have a son or a daughter; or a grandson or granddaughter. Instead of being pissed off, is it not possible to just help your kids.
Anyone, who goes into debt to get an expensive college education, has not had much help from his or her elders.
Everything written in the article is well known.
Giving sound advice to a kid in 8th grade would sound like this:
To super smart son or daughter: grind out your grades 24/7 and get a scholarship to someplace - come out of the college experience debt free.
To average son or daughter: A college degree does not mean that you are going to get rich. For you, it may mean that you are going to get poor and stay poor for a long time. Do something else like community college focused on the real skills that pay well - HVA installation, repair and maintenance.
To an unmotivated kid in 8th grade: You have two futures: one being on welfare or in jail; or another in a combat unit in the Marines. If you do not like your future, then change your behavior.
This post was reasonable until it became a slap in the face to the Marines. I joined the navy out of high school, got an excellent high-tech military education, served my time and left, passed the engineering exam and was accepted by a well-respected technology company - we helped put the first man on the moon. I now co-own a successful international company with diverse capabilities. I attribute my achievements largely to the discipline and the motivation derived from my military tenure, and would not trade it for four years at some pussified, Marxist, ivy league institution.
If you have an unmotivated kid, he could do a lot worse than being a Marine, one of the most motivating forces on the planet.
I resemble that remark. Military is great for a large number of people at different places in life and motivation. Frankly, I think it puts most kids way ahead of their peers in very practical and personal ways.
There are other options for unmotivated children, and a lack of motivation can come from just how absolutely fucking boring school can be. Some people just don't learn anything useful in the standard schooling environment, so don't just assume because they're not motivated to go through school that they aren't motivated to do something else that doesn't involve jail time or military service.
$35k today is probably a fair amount, adjusted for inflation that's about what I owned umpty years ago, but of course the job market was much, much better back then, my first year's salary was about 4x my debt, that would be like $140k now. Of course to keep it that low I also got scholarships and worked my way through.
One year at Stanford is now $64k list price including room, board, books, etc, I looked it up the other day, though they offer fat discounts (aka scholarships) to middle-class and lower families. UCLA let's see ... about $34k for residents.
https://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/budget.htm
College. Thankfully you don't have to (re)pay for it.
Just another wonderful effect of ZIRP/NIRP, i.e. astronomically inflate the cost of 'edumacation'. Except one cannot discharge student loan debt thru bankruptcy. Go figure, the banksters are fucking over every borrowing student.
If you like your college debt you can keep your college debt.
The vast majority of high school graduates that go to college would be better off getting a blue collar job in the trades. They are not cut out for information processing, analysis or critical thinking.
What most people haven't figured out is that colleges, just like Wall St., are a con. A con designed to separate the plebes from their money, with promises of great job prospects, or great returns on the investment. The reason the vast majority do not get a decent paying job out of college is because they did not put the maximum effort into learning, instead choosing to chase pussy and/or cock, or drinking, or what they call these days "networking", in a frat or sorority.
That can only get you so far, in few cases, quite far. But for the vast majority, they are simply separated from their money for rich payoffs for administrators and really senior tenured professors who got in early.
The rest are just sheeple for the slaughter. Same as it ever was.
I got a kid in college doing undergraduate research on genetics, in fantastic facilities, studying under fantastic professors, at a university that also has extension offices where even more relevant research is conducted. It doesn't seem like a ripoff at all. Sorry I don't buy this shit about how a high school education is enough.
Not sure who is saying high school education is enough but that college education can and should be done for much cheaper. Classic lit majors pay the same tuition as aerospace engineering majors except for a couple of hundred extra for lab fees. With the advances in information technology the price of "learning" information should have dropped instead of skyrocketed. Additionally, college administration staffs have increased exponentially. Again, all of the administrative tasks can be done with computers and databases. These staffing levels and costs should have dropped as well. The entire industry of higher education should be more productive and efficient but the opposite is true. Why? Because .gov is handing out the funding to anyone with a pulse
It's a racket. Everything is just a racket anymore. Designed to fuck someone out of their money, if they have any.
Absolutely correct. I'm almost done with my Masters and a third of the courses are horseshit. I need maybe 30-40 credits but I'm having to take 60-70 hrs. Double. Why? They can't legitimately make the credit hour more expensive so I am forced to take horseshit courses I'll never need. It's a fucking racket.
"would be better off getting a blue collar job in the trades. They are not cut out for information processing, analysis or critical thinking."
Wow! I can not believe I just read that. Are you that out of touch with what and who, makes day to day life work? You think the car technician that figures out why your frigging blue tooth in your $80,000 car isnt working, and fixes it, so you can drive around and yap hands free in some communist state, like Virginia, are not capable of critical thinking? If so, you are seriously deluded.
What will happen next is that kids who graduate with zero student loans, because they got scholarships, took community college courses, etc, will have to pay a type of shared loan payment anyway, which helps cover the cost of less fortunate graduates. They'll figure out how to convince everyone that it's patriotic.
For most liberal arts majors and science bachelor degrees, a college degree is like buying a lotto ticket. If you don't play, you flip burgers, stock shelves, or pour coffee. If you play, you may get a real job, or be stuck pouring coffee anyway. But if you don't play, you don't get a real job.
The cries of personal responsiblity are a hoot. There just aren't enough good jobs for every college graduate. Even if every college graduate majored in something "practical", it wouldn't matter. There's no work for an extra million rookie chemical engineers every year, let alone 5 million. Would it be better to pour coffee with a BSE than a BA? Of course not. Are our rugged individualists going to apply "personal responsibility" to the banks, schools, corporations, and government officials that set up this ridiculous system? Doubt it.
Once the government realizes the error of its ways and finally gets out of the student loan business, you'll see tuition rates drop like a rock, but only after the colleges and universities remember how to actually compete for student's tuition. As it stands, they can charge whatever they want if Uncle Sugar will always be there to lend the students a poisoned hand full of junk fiat. The gimme dats and dindos will surely cry racism if this "opportunity" is taken from them.
"Once the government realizes the error of its ways..."
I know, silly of me to think that.
The lenders that lent money to these kids majoring in junk degrees with no job prospects deserve to suffer some big losses. Of course Congress deemed these debts irrevokable even if they are impossible to pay, so the lenders lent freely anyway. No risk? Who lends $100, 000 to a kid majoring in history, dance or music? Then the schools tell them: do what you love to do not what you have to do. They need to fill seats in all those useless classes. Get a degree to get a good job to maintain a good lifestyle is what they should say. Instead just fork over the money. To keep the ponzi scheme going.
The lenders that lent money to these kids majoring in junk degrees with no job prospects deserve to suffer some big losses. Of course Congress deemed these debts irrevokable even if they are impossible to pay, so the lenders lent freely anyway. No risk? Who lends $100, 000 to a kid majoring in history, dance or music? Then the schools tell them: do what you love to do not what you have to do. They need to fill seats in all those useless classes. Get a degree to get a good job to maintain a good lifestyle is what they should say. Instead just fork over the money. To keep the ponzi scheme going.
Gee, if only the student loan had been used to buy a Ferrari.
Some jobs still ask for a degree (regardles if it's naked ass painting or engineering) so I figure in some sense its worth it, especially if your options are living in your parents basement or going off to get maimed in some fucked up war some chickenhawks started.
As seek stated
in post above:
After one considers the most important basic background feature, that the public "money" supplies were being created out of nothing as debts, through governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks, which "money" was used to "pay" for industrialization strip-mining the natural resources of a fresh planet as fast as possible, in the most wasteful ways possible, which means that BIG BOOM is headed towards the BIG BUST, the failure of student loans to "pay" for worthwhile education is relatively TRIVIAL ...
The younger you are (& especially for those not yet born) the worse you were being lied to, cheated and robbed by the political economy system that you were born into, since that operated through fundamentally fraudulent accounting, which was based on vicious spirals of the funding of politics, driving vicious feedbacks of the privatization of profits, along with the socialization of losses, while those profits were respected, and somewhat recycles through the funding of more political activities, while the socialized losses were disregarded. Overall, everything was set up to maximize the short to medium term benefits for rich, old people, while simultaneously that also maximized the longer term costs for younger poor people, and especially for those not yet born.
More and more, we are rapidly approaching the various tipping points, where the previous appearances of privatized profits are being overwhelming by the collective socialized losses. The short to medium term triumphs of fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems are turning towards the longer term consequences of having built the entire political economy upon the basis of governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks, which debt slavery treadmills drove the strip-mining of the planet to be done in the most criminally insane ways possible, which surely did deliver the maximum short to medium term profits to previous generations, and still so to the older, richer members of the current generations, while those kinds of economic developments set up for that Great Boom to become the Great Bust, whose scale beggars the imagination, since such an exponential overshoot of any theoretically possible carrying capacity of the planet has already gone so far that there no longer are any reasonable ways to prevent some series of events causing massive die offs of the human population, especially since the same vicious spirals operating through the funding of politics that made and maintained the currently established systems are continuing to work now, and for the foreseeable future, in order that the industrialized strip-mining of the planet, operated through fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, can be expected to be goosed along and continue, as much as possible, for as long as possible, driving the resulting final crashing into chaos to become as bad as it possibly could be.
Nothing appears possible to emerge that is credibly able stop the political economy being based on governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks than the final MAD self-destruction of that MAD Money As Debt system. Rather, the basics were always that money was measurement backed by murder, since the debt controls were always backed by the death controls, and therefore, debt slavery driving debt insanities that was foisted onto future generations as debt insanities, is also going to become death insanities, that those young people are future generations are going to suffer through ...
The ONLY "education" that young people could obtain that might be worthwhile would be an "education" regarding more radical truths, about what revolutions they would need, in order to change to adapt to the industrial revolutions having been based on strip-mining the natural resources of a fresh planet. While that seems theoretically possible, any such genuinely more realistic "education" continues to be politically impossible. An "education" that enabled enough young people to go through real, radical revolutions in the ways that there perceived their world would be the only "education" that was genuinely valuable to them.
Any "education" regarding how to become socially successful within the currently established systems of debt slavery, where the public "money" supply is made out of nothing as debts by privately controlled banks as frauds which are enforced by governments, is necessarily a DEAD END, because that entire system of controlling civilization through fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems was always headed towards a DEAD END.
Of course, any such worthwhile "educations" about how and why the government is the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, are politically impossible to provide within the current systems. Rather, young people continue to be tricked and fooled: "... literally everyone they're trusting is lying to them and fucking them over ..." Since civilization necessarily operates according to the principles and methods of organized crime, but one of the corollaries of that social situation is that the ruling classes get away with doing that, by presenting themselves publicly as being the opposite of that, the excessive successfulness of the established systems based upon governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks are NOT things that young people are going to be "educated" to be able to understand, but rather, their fake "education" will endeavour to continue to brainwash them to believe in the banksters' bullshit.
For the vast majority, their fake "education" is as prequel for the continuation of the fake "democracy" that they were born into. Education is the way that society reproduces itself. Since there are social pyramid systems based on backing up lies with violence, which have become more sophisticated systems of legalized lied, backed by legalized violence, that is what the current kind of "education" endeavours to continue to reproduce. Young people are being taught how they might be able to become socially successful, by living inside of the currently established political economy based upon governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks, while those systems have already just begun to reach the limits of diminishing returns from being able to continue to strip-mine the planet's natural resources, in the ways that all the established systems were accustomed to do, and which are the only things that the established systems are set up to be able to continue to do.
Theoretically speaking, young people should be "educated" regarding the kinds of radical, revolutionary transformations which would be necessary to develop new forms of integrated human, industrial and natural ecologies. While those are theoretically possible, those are quite clearly politically impossible within the currently established systems, where the funding of political processes continue to drive more and bigger enforcements of frauds towards civilization becoming even more criminally insane than it already is now.
As usual with respect to articles published on Zero Hedge, the article above grossly understated the situation when it quoted the opinion that: "it gets really ugly, really fast!" Civilization controlled by fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, which require that civilization to deliberately ignore the basic laws of nature as much as humanly possible, is driving itself towards everything it does getting "really ugly, really fast!"
This was a ploy, pure and simple, to create debt slaves as fast as possible.
I suggest all 'real' evidence surrounding the economy be collecting and a massive suit filed against the US gov't, and private loaners, for BLATANT LIEING,and that loans be wiped out 100%.
I'm not kidding.
These kids are mostly in their 20's and mid 30's. Wait until they're numbers span into 3 decades of th epopulation: 20's, 30's and 40's. They will vote themselves out from under this albatross. And if the right Populist comes along they may go Civil Asset Forfeiture onat least the privately run colleges to recoup that money.
And the irony of it all is that it will be done all in the name of Fairness and Social Justice.
This was a ploy, pure and simple, to create debt slaves as fast as possible.
I suggest all 'real' evidence surrounding the economy be collected and a massive suit filed against the US gov't, and private loaners, for BLATANT LIEING,and that loans be wiped out 100%.
I'm not kidding.
Why isn't anyone criticizing the colleges for fleecing the American people? Let's face it, US colleges were the subprime bankers of this decade - when they realized the govt would provide easy financing to students, they jacked up tuition rates to astronomical levels beyond what the majority of middle-class households could afford and certainly well above entry level salaries. In addition, while the middle class is squeezed out, colleges are running massive endowments that use a fraction of this amount to subsidize low income students. Meanwhile, colleges are also hungry to substitute American students for wealthy Asians willing to pay top dollar. The ramifications of this collegiate abuse is only now becoming apparent. Parents and students have to push back on the colleges to lower admissions.
"Unfortunately, the more likely outcome will be that demand for higher education will simply dry up, thereby creating an even larger divide between the skills set of America's youth and that of job seekers around the globe."
If higher education isn't giving America's Youth useful "skills set" then why the feck should they pay 35K for higher education?
If kids coming out of college with "useless" undergraduate degrees could get a lower-scale job in a healthy, growing economy, mature, go back to school if desired to get a "better" graduate degree and keep going - or just work up the ladder, all would be OK. But an attitude of entitlement, poor work ethic, absence of those jobs and that healthy economy, all conspire to produce the couch potato, age 30, living with mom and dad and bemoaning her debt. I'm only marginally sympathetic. There's plenty of easily-available information saying DON'T DO THIS. The suckers just didn't want to see and hear the facts, but then that's always been true of suckers.
In the 1960s ten percent of population went to college. In 2015 it's 40% of population.
There is simply not enough jobs that validly require a college degree. The result is college graduates are grabbing the top end of jobs that used to only require a highschool diploma.
Society has been transformed from a mostly middileclass based society into a college educated overclass and a non college educated underclass. The 60% of non college educated are very aware of the loss of social mobility as college grads take all the best jobs that really don't require a college degree.
The underclass is now flocking to radical outsiders like Trump while the overclass admantly clings to the status quo inspite of its complete failure, because they fear the loss of status.
a substantial portion of college curriculum today is
academically equivalent to a hight school education of the 1960s
The fundamental problem may lie with US secondary school education
that doesn't teach students enough simple math and common sense to realize
how fucked their lives will be by the debt they incur
This is not right. If you want an educated country that can compare with others and not be at a disadvantage, you need a free for all education, where all those endowed with a brain can get regardless of their purses, to study in all the fields they want.
35K? This is not a tuition, this is an investment people are going to want to see returned, which means business or finance careers.
So you'll you end up with a country run by an "educated elite" of Donald Trumpses (or for that matter, Hilary Clintonses) - ignoramuses with calculators for books and hoovers for pockets.
Sad.
“Education” and most US alleged “universities” are mutually exclusive.
Suckers. Oh, was that a SJW micro-aggression? TFB. LOL.
145 K. Public employee wages, pensions and benefits. Nothing to do with education. My son in law works for a ritzy suburb in Chicago. He is streets and san and his boss who manages a whopping 18 employes and is 34 years old makes 145 K a year. They plow snow and paint park benches and cut down a tree or two when a big wind blows through. I am sure his job entails more than that but it is all levels, local, county, state and federal. Pensions and benefits until they die too. We just had some suburban teachers go on strike because they were "worth" more. 3.5 percent raises per year for the next three years.
Want an education? Pick fruit in orchards at age 12 to 14 with migrant workers and men picked up at skid row. Done that. Bag groceries for minimum wage from 14 to 16 part time during school year. Done that. Cook in a restaurant, 5 to 1130 pm and back on bus to high school at 6 AM 4 school nights a week. Done that. Pay your way through junior college with summer jobs including, beef slaughter house kill floor, 110 degree in summer powder coating plastics plant, etc etc. Done that. 4 years meat cutting when quarters of beef were still broken at the retail level. Done that. Executive Chef and restaurant trainer and opener. 20 years, Done that.
20 years sales, sales trainer and sales management. Done that.
I am 60. I will never be without work. I was downsized from managing sales crews in Milwaukee and Chicago for a major manufaturing company. This was done with a phone call after 18 years of service. I went from well over 100K a year to zero with a phone call.
2 weeks later I was cooking at a senior care residence for 11 dollars an hour. Do you know why I would make a move like that? NO one wanted me, boo hoo. I was too old to drink the company Kool Aid at a lot of interviews I went to. You know what else? All work is honorable. I have never measured the worth of a man or a woman by the amount of money that they make.
I am now back in sales. Think the movie Tin Men with danny di vito. We have window and door installers that make well over 100k a year. Want to guarantee yourself a living? People will always need to eat. People will always get sick. People will always need a roof over their head. People will always die. Want to always make a living? Pick something in one of those fields and you will always have work.
Always keep one eye on your bobber.
The sad part is that college knowledge is nearly useless when it comes to inventing a marketable product. College education has no value in the real world.
There's all this hype as if this useless material they teach is sooo valuable and worth something.
Particularly the sacred "liberal" values. What a crock of Sh*T. And my first "useless" degree was philosophy so I know first hand.
Also there's a myth that the more commonly-perceived engioneering knowledge is useful in industry and it isn't.
Professors have their heads so far up their ass that you never get taught practical knowledge. I doubt they know
any but they will always pretend they know all - both theoretical and practical. As an electrical engineer I can testify it is all a colossal hoax.
Just another scam from the United States of Deception. The world has been sold a crock of sh*t by the globalist Zionist Deceivers.
Oh did I mention the 28 US Jesuit Colleges that probably pushed for this student loan welfare bill.
Remember The Black Nobility controls the West using Mason/shriner, Zionist and Jesuit agents to do their bidding.
They knew that the end result would be vast welfare funds for their college building and enrollment programs. Of course the students get permant debt slavery, globalist indoctrination and a useless degree.
And we'll advertise it like it's going to boost college enrollment like a do gooder program.
I paid off all my loans as I went through grad school. Ended up debt free 7 months out, because I didn't spend my time partying. I just studied and worked.
I did this 3 years ago too, so I know all of these crybabies can do it. Especially because my private grad school was way more expensive than normal undergrad.
Go out there and get a shit job to pay back the bankers the money they spreadsheeted into existence. Fuck That. Walk away! Google 8 forms of capital. Plan. Get advice. Plan. Redesign your life away from the CONSTANT LABOR CONFISCATION.
I work in higher education in Britain. Most of our degree courses are an utter waste of time and have no real application in the real world -- some to the extent they actually inhibit real world solutions. It's pretty much like Gormenghast.
You would do far better working in relevant fields and reading in your own time. The only problem is that you can't enter those relevant fields without a degree, so it is a catch-22 situation.
However, the major and unspoken reason for the need for higher education these days is that secondary/high school education has been dumbed down to the extent that the only way you can guarantee literacy and basic numeracy is to employ a graduate.
To give you a few anecdotal examples ...
Our institution now has to provide a pre-summer remedial maths programme for first year BSc maths students. There was no need for this fifteen years ago.
An academic that taught me back in the early 90s admitted a few years ago that they have had to pull various second and third year undergraduate modules because today's undergraduates simply cannot cope with the concepts. These are teens that are getting As and A*s in their A levels.
My grandmother, my mother and I have approximately the same level of ability when it comes to the English language in terms of comprehension, communication (both spoken and written), and grammar. My grandmother left education at 14, my mother at 16, and I have a postgrad in English literature.
"Two Thirds Of Recent Graduates Say US College Education Is A Ripoff"
I believe it is possible that the subjects of study and major may have an impact on the return on investment of a college education.
Speaking only for my myself, getting my college education was a horrible struggle, being poor with no parents, and having to work full-time and study at the same time, but getting the degree in Computer Science opened doors of opportunity that eventually resulted in me starting businesses, developing many products and services, earning wealth and retiring financially independent at age 42.
I have no idea what happened to my peers who majored in subjects like psychology, social science, art, history, literature, etc, but I suspect that nearly all of them are much worse off than me.
Choices have consequences.
btw, I earned my degree without incurring any financial debt, it was horrible ball-buster, but I did it.