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"Everyone Is Doing It": How Carmakers Manipulate Emissions Test Results

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With Germany's largest company by revenue, Volkswagen, deep in damage recovery mode, and the market still unable to decide just how systemic and profound the fallout will be from the emissions scandal which has already cost the job of VW's CEO and which according to some will impact the GDP of Hungary and the Czech republic as much as -1.5%, many are still trying to determine not if but how many other companies - whether "clean diesel" focused or otherwise - will be impacted by the crackdown on emissions fraud.

We don't know the answer suffice to speculate that it will be "many" for one simpler reason: there are dozens of ways to manipulate emissions tests in both the lab and on the road, and with the temptation to "reduce" emissions all too great for management teams laser-focused on boosting profit margins, one can be certain that in this particular case not only is there more than one cockroach, there are dozens.

The chart below from Transport and Environment shows some of the traditional ways in which carmakers manipulate CO2 emissions tests to make their cars appear more efficient:

 

Worse, according to a follow-up report, it is only a matter of time before far more widespread crackdowns take place within the auto industry where emissions fraud now appears as systemic as that of the global banking sector.

As reported earlier this week, the gap between official test results for CO2 emissions/fuel economy and real-world performance has increased to 40% on average in 2014 from 8% in 2001, according to T&E’s 2015 Mind the Gap report, which analyses on-the-road fuel consumption by motorists and highlights the abuses by carmakers of the current tests and the failure of EU regulators to close loopholes. T&E said the gap has become a chasm and, without action, will likely grow to 50% on average by 2020.

By exploiting loopholes in the test procedure (including known differences between real-world driving and lab simulations) conventional cars can emit up to 40-45% more CO2 emissions on the road than what is measured in the lab. But the average gap between test results and real-world driving is more than 50% for some models. Mercedes cars have an average gap between test and real-world performance of 48% and their new A, C and E class models have a difference of over 50%. The BMW 5 series and Peugeot 308 are just below 50%. The causes of these big deviations have to be clarified as soon as possible.

 

Greg Archer, clean vehicles manager at T&E, said: “Like the air pollution test, the European system of testing cars to measure fuel economy and CO2 emissions is utterly discredited. The Volkswagen scandal was just the tip of the iceberg and what lies beneath is widespread abuse by carmakers of testing rules enabling cars to swallow more than 50% more fuel than is claimed.”

 

Greg Archer concluded: “This widening gap casts more doubt on how carmakers trick their customers in Europe to produce much better fuel efficiency in tests than can be achieved on the road. The only solution is a comprehensive investigation into both air pollution and fuel economy tests and all car manufacturers to identify whether unfair and illegal practices, like defeat devices, may be in use. There must also be a comprehensive overhaul of the testing system.”

Who are the biggest European culprits.

The cost: distorted laboratory tests cost a typical motorist €450 a year in additional fuel costs compared to what carmakers’ marketing materials claim, the report finds.

Now multiply that by tens of millions of cars and you get a sense of the potential industry liability, especially since can be absolutely certain Europe's US carmaking peers are just as guilty of emissions manipulation.

Finally, to paraphrase Dr. House, everybody lies.

 

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Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:06 | 6625064 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture

No more ethanol. Get better mileage.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:07 | 6625069 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

I have never received the stated mpg, no surprise

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:09 | 6625077 Oh regional Indian
Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:27 | 6625157 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Well not quite everybody. And you are wrong about the ethenol scene, it's actually more efficient if you know what you are doing, which the industry does'nt.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:33 | 6625172 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Global warming is a set of lies agreed upon.

Fire the kleptocrats.  All of them.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:46 | 6625196 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Sorry all you ICE lovers. Its' a CRAPPY, noxious, loud, polluting system, essentially, note, I say essentially unchanged since ole diamler and DIE-sel did their number over a century ago.

Current cars give same mileage and lower safety than a model T. Before you scream and are suddenly silenced, remember, these beloved ICE powered mayhem-makers KILL 1.5 million people annually. 45,000 in the USSA alone.

Carmakers have sold us a bill of dirty goods since the early 20's.

Get over it.

Not to mention all the wars and other assorted crap oil has caused and is causing.

And no, NiMH or LiFePoly or other such "advances" are not what's coming. 

DOn't be stuck in a cage/box.....there are simple solutions...

13% efficieny to the wheels just DOES NOT cut it anymore...

Now go fondle your superchargers.....

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:47 | 6625227 Stackers
Stackers's picture

I dont know abou that last statment in consumer fuel cost......

my Passat gets better MPG than what was on the window sticker

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:55 | 6625257 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I almost always beat the MPG estimates till recently. My Mini's were pretty true, BMW pretty accurate but I do not even get close on my American cars. I drive a Malibu for work. Have had two in a row and they throw out the most incredible mileage numbers and I never hit them, and for twenty years I usually beat the mileage estimates. They are probably as fake or conditional as every other stat.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 19:26 | 6626586 divingengineer
divingengineer's picture

Me too, about 12mpg better on highway in my 2012 passat tdi sel.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:38 | 6625395 roddy6667
roddy6667's picture

Read some facts about how efficient EV's really are.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-28/electric-cars-are-doing-more-ha...

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:47 | 6625217 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

The industry knows exactly what they are doing, or need to do, but they simply can't do what they want becasue of government regulations.  It's the POLITICIANS that don't know what they are doing. 

 

You are right about ethanol.    Pure ethanol has an octane rating of 113  !!!

But what happens when it's mixed with gasoline, the refineries use this to boost the octane of gasoline, but then they start with a poorer quality of gasoline. 

Gasoline is a witches brew of from 300 to 500+ different compounds.  There is no "formula" for gasoline, it's blended to meet a performance specification, not a chemical specification.    This means as long as it burns according to the spec, it's OK, regardless of what's in it. 

That's why some gas is better than others, and some can store well for a year, and some goes "bad" in a month. 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:17 | 6625318 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Oh the industry knows how make a car alright, they just don't know how to make one last and be maintenance free, nothing lasts the test of time, because the industry really does'nt know what it is doing, period.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:47 | 6625424 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

The industry knows exactly what they are doing.  The cars they sell have a specific design life.  But they also build them for a specific COST. 

You want a car that will last 50 years?  No problem.  But it WON'T cost the same as a car you buy today, it will be MANY times more expensive. 

 

For some projects, I deal with industrial diesel and natural gas engines.   High speed engines (1800 rpm) have a design life of about 40,000 hours before rebuild.  Medium speed diesel engines (400 to 1200 rpm) are typically designed for a minimum of 100,000 hours.

If you put your car engine in a generator application and ran it at high power output (high rpm), it would last 500 to 1,000 hours.  Inboard gasoline boat engines  based on automive engine blocks are beefed up to be stronger, and run at slightly less rpm and less HP, last 1,000 to 2,000 hours before rebuild. 

How much are you willing to pay? 

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:01 | 6625729 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Your not quite on the right track, good intentions but your 50 year car can't be made at any cost, and your design life is just that, defective. 1800 is not high speed, the right car has already been made, and dismissed by the indusrty, then they went off track until computers messed it up completely. The trick is to not have to rebuild anything, just make it last forever and save those labor costs, change the fluids only for 50 years, maybe seats and small things depending on. The industry knows what they are doing to save the industry, not to save the consumer. 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:24 | 6625807 daveO
daveO's picture

The fraud is based in the fiat currency, as is all our major frauds. They raise prices, cheapen quality and extend loan periods to extract a profit from the FED-created inflation(counterfeiting). Over 40 years ago, around the time the gold window was closed, my older relatives could buy new cars a few thousand dollars cash. A new VW beetle is no way near as durable as the originals.

This ad brags about the tire life.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JDa5VlrvN20/Tz1A4L77btI/AAAAAAAAylI/-G4ytIauna...

$1839 a piece before Nixon stabbed the nation in the back. I'll take 10 of those over one of the new ones.

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/549703.jpg

 

http://cdn.designbeep.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/33-VW-beetle.jpg

http://testdb.msmagazine.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/sexist_vw_b...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 16:38 | 6626083 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

I have a 1960 VW Type 2 (a transporter).  The thing is noisy and smokes, AND is still on the road. 

It's not a car company, its a cult.

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 19:40 | 6626612 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

You've gone off the deep end.  Why don't you spend a lifetime designing and building things, and then come back and comment.

And yes, 1800 rpm is classified as high speed.  Less than 400 rpm is low speed.   You are fixated only on car engines.  There are a lot more engines than just car engines. 

As for speed, the actual rpm is less important that PISTON SPEED.  You can have a high rpm but low piston speed (short stroke), or a low rpm with high piston speeds (long stroke). 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:58 | 6625261 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

HAHAHAhahhahahahhahaa

 

Tell you what, lets go on a 200km trip.  I will take my stinky diesel car (or truck) and you bring your electric skateboard up here to Canada during the winter.   Lets see how long you last before forstbite sets in at -30C (with a -70C windchill) 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:00 | 6625272 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Okay. Clearly, my "skateboard" as you disparagingly call it is in it's semi-final stage of dev. Tell me where, winter's a'coming.

Trouble is, petrol-fumes be-fuddle minds into thinking that chemical batteries (very temperature sensitive) are the only way to power electrics.

You are wrong....

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:32 | 6625366 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

So instead of chemical batteries to STORE electricity, there's methods of generating electricity from hydrogen fuel cells, hydrocarbon fuel cells, solar, wind, or TEG powered by Plutonium or Strontium. 

But you are probably talking about supercapacitors (Maxwell markets them as ultracapacitors).  Don't assume that everyone knows nothing.  

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:23 | 6625573 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Anop, you assumed my skateboard was battery powered. Poor assumption, no?

All good, I'm doing something, hopefully soon for all to see/share/use....

And no, the answer is even simpler...

Watch ;-)

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 19:34 | 6626607 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

No, you said it was ELECTRICLY powered.  And that's what i'm talking about.  Either ways of storing or generating electricty. Evidently you are stoopid and can't read. 

You can either STORE electricity or GENERATE electricty.  So which is it? 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:40 | 6625194 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Results in the real world can vary greatly from one driver to another. Around town, I tend to use more gas than needed, probably because I have a lead foot (the better to enjoy my paltry 335HP with). On the highway, however, I have achieved some really great mileage at 65 mph, although tailgating a semi can be a bit wearing on the nerves.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:48 | 6625210 malek
malek's picture

I have received the stated mpg - but only with a diesel.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:04 | 6625286 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

I consistently get better than sticker listed MPG, then again I have a VW TDI, albeit older, and it's 50 state legal.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:10 | 6625297 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

In 1980 a Rabbit Diesel 5-speed got 50 MPG on the highway (I know, I drove it, calculated it numerous times).

Why can't I buy that car today?  Wolfsburg edition Rabbit, man that was a well made vehicle!

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:16 | 6625316 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

In our Jetta TDI, I get an honest 1000km per 50L (47 mpg) in mixed urban/highway driving, and have been getting that for years. 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 16:29 | 6626048 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

from 50 mgp to 47. 80's Chevy Sprints and Honda CRX would get between 50 and 60 MPG....gas.

Seems like we are regressing.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:24 | 6625141 SamEyeAm
SamEyeAm's picture

Absolutely true. Ethanol doesn't contain the energy gasoline does.

Ethanol is just another game by Uncle Sham for the feel-good enviromasses and the farmers.

Next up, biofuel which runs about 4x the cost of gasoline.

Buuuut but but buut but but SCIENCE!

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:25 | 6625152 Falling Down
Falling Down's picture

I gladly pay $2.5X per gallon for pure gasoline, 91 octane. 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:50 | 6625443 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

you'll pay a lot more than that, because there's no such thing as pure gasoline, especially at the pump...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:01 | 6625486 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

"Gasoline" is a BLEND of 200 to 500 different hydrocarbons.  There is no such thing as "pure" gasoline.  

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:13 | 6625304 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

The energy content of 10% ethanol gasoline is 96.7% of pure gasoline. So it has 3.3% less. 

If your car gets 30 MPG, then running 10% ethanol, you would get 29 MPG.    Do you actually notice that difference?  Does your car/truck get an HONEST 30 MPG right now?   Do you keep DETAILED records of mileage? 

 

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 19:05 | 6626523 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:46 | 6625432 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

we're not talking about mileage, we're talking about emissions...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:48 | 6625667 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

But the class action suits from consumers will focus on mileage.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:12 | 6625762 JRobby
JRobby's picture

Correct Sir!. I have proven it with a number of vehicles. Gains are substantial.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:13 | 6625094 Legal_US_Immigr...
Legal_US_Immigrant_Citizen's picture

If you see one cockroach in the kitchen, at least 100 are hiding.  If everybody lies and regulators know about it, then it doesn't make much difference unless the offender is 500-2500% off compared to the norm of 25-50% off...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:44 | 6625208 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Let's hold government officials to a tighter standard, too: 100% compliance with the Constitution as written. Violators to suffer 50 lashes across the eyeballs with a wet noodle plus loss of employment and forfeiture of pension rights.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:46 | 6625221 malek
malek's picture

But we already know the as written part is the interpretative challenge, in best Orwell tradition.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:07 | 6625106 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Nearly ALL of this 'regulation', nearly ALL of the 'environmental and personal safety' features: are simply designed to enrich the bureaucracy and push up prices.  NONE of it is for the stated purpose.

This is nothing but fraud.

Fraud designed to inflate prices and divest productive people of their earnings.

Fraud designed to introduce ever greater levels of debt to purchase ever more expensive products designed explicitly to maximize wealth sequestration via engineered obsolesence and user deception.

 

This isn't just about diesel.  

Gasoline is being effectively watered down with ethanol mixtures in amounts that greatly exceed those advertised at the pump and the 'regulators' damned well know it.   It takes too much time to test every pump every day to find where and by how much.  It is probably being done at the refinery level and shutting down or fining those cash cows would shock the industry and panic investors...

Electric is full of fraudulent claims as well.

...& that is just part of the automotive fuel economy and emissions picture...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:16 | 6625108 the6thBook
the6thBook's picture

CO2 is already in the air and used by plants.  It doesn't even make up 1%.  Who gets hung for the global warming lies?

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:20 | 6625126 wmbz
wmbz's picture

Well certaintly not AlGore the lord/father of Globull Warming lies!

Piece of shit.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:36 | 6625179 Salah
Salah's picture

How about this? Scam researcher's desire to "RICO" climate change skeptics opens up the largest science scandal in US history.....

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/10/02/jagadish-shuklas-rico20-blunder-ma...

 ...."$800,000 annual salary and an organization full of Shukla family members that has produced next to no results for the millions received."

 


Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:38 | 6625185 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

The real problem isn't CO2 in the air.  I really don't care if it causes warming (which it does), the planet will survive.  

The big problem with CO2 is that it gets into the oceans and forms carbonic acid.  That makes the oceans more acidic, and softens shells of marine invertebrates.   The very bottom of the food chain in the ocean is plankton, upon which all fish depend.  Many plankton and diatoms have shells and acidification softens those shells and they can't flourish. 

All the whoopla about warming is misplaced.  It should be directed to acidification of the oceans.  But it's easier to TAX people over warming than over plankton with soft shells. 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:17 | 6625113 wmbz
wmbz's picture

Someone/some group had a hard on for VW. Or VW wasn't paying off the right person etc... They all lie and cheat and steal info. not one thing new about that.

Next time VW just needs to make sure it spreads the graft into the correct pockets. They could learn a thing or two from GM aka gubmint motors.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:31 | 6625168 silentboom
silentboom's picture

I think it might be just the sales of "clean diesel".  They want that idea eliminated.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:34 | 6625845 daveO
daveO's picture

It's an attack on Germany. They refused to sanction Russia last year while, at the same time, asking for their gold back from the NY FED. First, in March, it was Germanwings being hijacked by the remote hijack recovery system while over open water(MH370 style). Now, it's this economic gut punch. Merkel may be next. Gotta get a stooge in there.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:21 | 6625131 Free_Market_Mafia
Free_Market_Mafia's picture

My Acura in Econ Mode meets the stated mpg but it is zero fun to drive, so I put it in Sport + and forgetabout the mpg!

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:26 | 6625153 SamEyeAm
SamEyeAm's picture

Big govt nanny statists will make sure Sport+ mode goes away.

Just give them some time.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:10 | 6625526 css1971
css1971's picture

$50 boxes can bring it back for those who care.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:29 | 6625164 silentboom
silentboom's picture

Just another attack on the car industry.  The establishment hates cars and free movement.  Agenda 2030.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:33 | 6625174 hibou-Owl
hibou-Owl's picture

Most companies cheat the regulations, just matters how they hiide it.

Try EDF injecting signallisation so your meter goes around faster. I'm going to blow this one wide open.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:33 | 6625176 prymythirdeye
prymythirdeye's picture

Love the comments.  When will people realize that most things in life they believed to be true are a lie, a fraud or fake?  Your whole reality is created for you by diabolical fucks who hate you.  Those running the show(whatever show) NEVER have your best interests in mind.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:47 | 6625223 malek
malek's picture

Fully agree!

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:54 | 6625254 silverer
silverer's picture

One of the easiest ways to fix this BS is to reduce the mileage claims immediately by 20% on the window stickers and lean on the automakers to reduce the ridiculous uneeded horsepower on most models.  The horsepower race appeals to people's sense of power, but is it really necessary?  Just dropping 275 horsepower to 240 would save fuel, thereby reducing emissions.  Big deal.  Anyone could live with that.  This tailpipe crap is maxed out, and forced a bad landing.  They obviously need to look at other areas, other solutions.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:57 | 6625462 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

and you would be utterly wrong in your assumptions...

I daily drive a car build of my own specification that gets 135 more peak hp and 110 peak ft-lbs torque than factory, and its mileage and emissions are... wait for it... the same as factory (in fact, for highway the mileage is 2 mpg better)

unpossible, you say... you're cheating, you say... nope, I even run with the catalytic converters still in place and both front and back O2 sensors functioning...

one of these days people will quit being emotional about this and take the time to study the math behind why and how this can happen... all I know is, I have a copy of HP Tuners and a list of known good parts that work well in combination, I leave the exercise to the reader...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:17 | 6625793 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Then why don't one or more of the auto manufacturers actually build fuel efficient automobiles and seize market share from those that don't?

Could it be that the car of 'your own specification' is too costly to build or entails some other downside?

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 17:37 | 6626273 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

How about letting the aftermarket have a shot?

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 17:59 | 6626337 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

my build cost me $US 5k in aftermarket parts and programming... in fact, the parts are CARB compliant...

intake, cam, headers, tune... seriously, there's not much to it...

edit: the downside is it voids the mfg warranty, but for my part who gives a damn about that anyway... it's GM parts, if it goes south I can go to a junkyard and get something rebuilt for cheap and keep on keepin' on...

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:37 | 6625182 Lorca's Novena
Lorca's Novena's picture

I love farhvergnugen for doing this! They know the whole smog thing is bullshit and basically said FU*K YOU to the regulators... I hope more people realize this.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:39 | 6625189 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

"With software you can do something about anything"..quote from Mike Osinski and you can hear him talk about virtual software worlds and the real world in the Quant documentary.  Keep in mind this video was made over 5 years ago just before the Flash Crash..3 days to be exact on the release.  This is what you have a world of Quants and their numbers manipulating perceptions for profits and stretching the truth.  Mike Osinksi by the way was the guy who created the software that all the banks and financial institutes used for the sub prime mortgage scam.  "It was never meant to be used that way" he states...so VW and cars the next level.

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.hk/2012/09/quants-alchemists-of-wall-street-video.html

Do you want the real world or the virtual world I guess is the question here.  Operation Perception Deception is in full swing in the US from all angles.

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2015/06/operation-perception-deception-into.html

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:41 | 6625197 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

This hole goes deep. So many lies. Pick a auto related topic.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:42 | 6625201 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

Um, what?  Even on my Accord if you leadfoot around the mileage falls to nothing, which means the "CO2 will rise", I'm sure the qualifying is done with a raw egg on the accelerator pedal, if they let a computer drive they can probably get mileage no human ever will, but it's not the car as such.

The VW result so far seems to be unique to them because they used a unique afterburner system and just couldn't resist the temptation.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:48 | 6625231 silverer
silverer's picture

The government is as much to blame as the auto industry, by setting limits so unrealistic they simply can't be achieved.  The government wants to burn a chemical and not have anything come out of the tailpipe.  You get from 1 to 9.5 on a scale of 1 to 10, you should be happy.  But the law of diminishing returns (economics again, which the government doesn't understand) makes the next 0.1 increment way too expensive.  Who has the extra $8,000 per car for this?  Are we really getting a worthwhile benefit from it?  I doubt it.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:00 | 6625273 messy
messy's picture

Oh - but they can be achieved.  just need to to have lighter cars,  better drag coefficient, smaller engines, hybrid fuels ... it is just difficult to sell because the mentality of buyers - they want more power and speed, larger, fossil fuel is cheap.

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:47 | 6625661 skipjack
skipjack's picture

Gotta disagree. The average buyer wants:

1- enough room to haul around their fat asses and a few fat family members

2- high so you can see ahead of the car in front of you

3- heavier so you don't get crushed in an accident with another car (trucks are a different story)

4- power to merge onto a highway and get up a hill with said fat asses

hence the popularity of SUVs.

 

People who want speed/performance are teenagers and middle age men driving alone :) Your average Prius buyer is a dumb, low information sheep trying to make a statement, not thinking about staying alive and getting to their destination with speed.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:00 | 6625724 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Your average Prius buyer is...trying to make a statement

LOL...I'm in Northern CA and could not believe a Prius-driving friend's indictment of the entire state of Texas because of his own count / perception of low # of hybrids on the road in one Texas town he was in for approximately 3 days.

He isn't exactly stupid but the depth of judgement and lack of logic demonstrated by this type of thinking is mind-blowing to me.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:00 | 6625274 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

We are well down the wrong path on emissions. We should have been chasing effectivity all this time. Getting more out of every drop of fuel would have worked way better for all of us. Just my opinion and it is not shared by many still in the industry.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:54 | 6625448 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

The US EPA is doing that too.  Look up CAFE.   (corporate average fuel economy) 

 

In a decade (2025), they want the AVERAGE fuel economy of all cars and light trucks sold to be 54.5 mpg.....

What type of 2 or 3 cylinder car do you want to drive? 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 17:52 | 6626322 RopeADope
RopeADope's picture

When Dick Cheney negotiated that he told them to just adjust the software measurements every year until 2025.

You think the auto industry would have signed on board if it was a real requirement?

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 12:52 | 6625239 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Buy used, at least 10 years old (pre 2005 model), fix/maintain it, and enjoy.

No electro-tracking bullshit plus its easier and cheaper to maintain.  And you fuck the system to boot.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:35 | 6625380 Never_Put_Down
Never_Put_Down's picture

a German car over 10 years old will cost you an arm and a leg in repair and scheduled maintenance/replacement/labor costs.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:57 | 6625465 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Even domestic cars are EXPENSIVE to fix these days.   Mass produced German cars (VW, low end Audi, low end BMW) are the same cost to fix as domestics as long as you don't go to the dealer.   Low production German cars are expensive to fix. 

The cheapest cars to fix are more than 15 year old domestics and trucks.  

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:06 | 6625510 css1971
css1971's picture

That's why you buy japanese.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:01 | 6625731 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

That's why you buy japanese.

I concur...And so did my mechanic the last time he was helping me choose my next car.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 13:48 | 6625438 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

This is not new, and, it leads to worse results for the guy paying the money, that is, the actual car-buyer.

 

In order to avoid having to pay the "gas guzzler" tax on the Audi A8, they changed the gearing on US-bound cars, making the car start off in 2nd rather than 1st.  So the car lugs along, then when you press down to accelerate, the 4.2L V8 spools up and shoots near 300hp through the auto transmission all of a sudden.  As a result, by 50K miles, the same transmission that would work flawlessly for 150K miles in Europe, would be dead and needing a rebuild, a $4000-6000 and up repair.

 

So what will the emissions doodads screw up for the buyer?

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:03 | 6625494 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Now we fully understand why all automakers were fighting the Right to Repair acts that would give independent garages access to the computer systems in cars.  I bring my cars to an independent garage first and there have been a bunch of times that the engine light is on but the car is running fine and the repair guy can't find anything wrong.  One time, car was running great but the engine light was on.  State inspection won't even put the car on the testers if the engine light.  Needed to bring it to the dealership so their "expert" mechanics could turn the engine light off.  Complete and utter bullshit going on with the onboard computer systems.  The dark pools of the auto industry.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:06 | 6625748 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Check engine light for gas-cap not tight enough...Tightening the cap does NOT correct the indicator so you have to take the vehicle in.

The first time I heard of this, it was my ex-wife and I told her I was certain that whoever said that was bullshitting her.

Had the exact same experience myself a couple of weeks ago.  Mechanic showed me that the gas cap has a message printed on it that warns against this situation.  

LOL.  CHECK-ENGINE -- not!

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 17:21 | 6626236 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

I was the guy you called BS on.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:06 | 6625496 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

Job Mythology

Jobs are a function of communism, a top-down, closed-system, hierarchy of gangs, so if you are looking for a job, for whatever reason, think like a communist. All empire positions are stepping stones, to a cliff. You can step back, step up, or go over the cliff.

The communists want you to go backwards, faster than them, because they only understand relative position, and that is the basis for helping you, to waste your resources, especially time, in dead-end interviews, jobs and relationships. They say it’s easier to get a job if you have one because the gangs want to disable each other by stealing communist talent.

The human mind is a pattern matcher, triggering physical response in a feedback loop with nature. The communists short nature out, and artificial infrastructure in. If you look the part, employers are going to look for a reason to hire you. If you don’t look the part, they are going to make you the scapegoat, for all economic ills in the empire.

In any case, you can’t go wrong with recon, loading your queue with employment offers, to take or pass at your discretion, which is a long-term investment, in skills and more recon. Don’t stand in one place knocking on doors that don’t open and expect the floor beneath you not to disappear.

The politicians promise middle class jobs because the middle class has no interest in work. It’s a chain of masters and slaves, creating the delusion of control, for the insecure. That’s the REIT racket.

Empire economics begins with a job, but a good landlord is even better, because the landlords know where the jobs are to feed their rent, rent/income, and are in a position to balance your position, increasing your income and decreasing your rent as a function of community. A good landlord recognizes talent, and you will find that person at the correct distance from the black hole you are going to enter.

That’s why I say to build $2-5k in your pocket, for mobility. Don’t worry about the communists; they have been trying and failing to eliminate monogamous marriage and anonymous money for over 5000 years, failing every time, because few understand the true nature of work and fewer still make the necessary investment.

The communists measure productivity in terms of playing 52-card pickup faster and faster, which you will see wherever you go, if you look; they are always desperate for labor and desperate to prove they aren’t, measuring the output as GDP, and arbitrarily printing credit and debt accordingly. Paper profit - the economy, technology and infrastructure, are derivatives of the monkeys the apes choose to take the statistical snapshots.

In the short-term, a single female is going to be the low bidder and a married man with children the high bidder, but as you extend the time duration of the snapshot, those roles reverse, which should be common sense, but isn’t for most. Desperate themselves, the communists increase income disparity hoping that you will become desperate as well, strangling themselves.

That’s empire folks. Queue music maestro. And watch Wyle E Coyote, outthink himself again.

 

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 14:10 | 6625521 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Hey man, all I know...  all I want to know, is that I put in a blend of corn and dinosaurs they label 87 no lead into the tank then I may summon 375hp to the rear wheels at my command, computers do the rest.  Some noise and warm moist air comes out the dual exhaust but whatever, it also powers the DVD player, surround sound system, climate control, power everything including heated seats.  

 

I had to pay more just in tax than a whole car cost new in the 70s cause its a 'gas guzzler' with its terrible combined 18mpg...  Sure the car costs more than a house did when my grandparents were my age and is packed with more technology than the entirety of the Apollo space program but its over a year old at this point and I want a new one already...   

 

'merrica

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:35 | 6625852 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

ponders whether the emissions of the currently caught german manufacturers were advised by american experts drafted in from american motor manufacturers.

who says that korean cars, japanese cars, french and german cars are the only ones that should be looked at? us cars are not mentoined anywhere - makes me think this is industrial war.

another point, i am not making the case that this is "no harm, no foul" as per prostitution which is now included in GDP, - but, exactly who has been harmed bya failed emission test across a million cars? last time i looked beijing was the smog capital of the world - do they have emissios tests and do their emissions stay in beijing or float over the pacific (i think they do), didn't pollution control talks fail? didn't japan put a helluva lot of nuclear radiation into the oceans and the atmosphere? don't coal fired power statons and jet airliners have awful emissions?

i get that we want to try to reduce emissions, but how is this crime, different from those arbitrarily defined "non-crimes"?

as far as i know, most buses in most cities, though improving, are not subject to emissions restrictions, neither are trucks or trains...i mean..wtf? just saying

Sun, 10/04/2015 - 02:23 | 6627370 RopeADope
RopeADope's picture

It is a crime because they did not buy enough carbon offsets from the parasites attached to the environmental movement.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 15:50 | 6625911 viator
viator's picture

Spare us the watermelon propaganda, these "reports" are from people who have little or no credibility. T&E (Transport and Environment) is a European front organization for other organizations like Friends of the Earth, World Wildlife Federation, and many other carbonphobes.

http://www.transportenvironment.org/members

for example these guys:

http://europeanclimate.org/home/who-we-are/board/

or

http://www.uecna.eu/about/

or

An Taise, the National Trust for Ireland who are "passionate about climate change"

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 17:43 | 6626291 wally_12
wally_12's picture

We have a 2000 Subaru Outback, 4 cylinder. !00% gasoline is available in Michigan's Upper Penisula at 91 octane. Our mileage increases from 23 MPG to 27 MPG. Ethanol has a heating value about 1/2 that of gasoline. You can't squize mileage out of nothing. How can Ethonal blend gasoline be 97.6% "pure" gasoline when the pump says 10% by Volumn? You tree huggers live in a fantasy world.

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 21:05 | 6626842 skank
skank's picture

^Common ways carmakers manipulate emissions infographic
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Never Go Full Retard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo

Sat, 10/03/2015 - 21:46 | 6626960 roddy6667
roddy6667's picture

The test drivers operate in a manner that no normal driver would ever match. Their style is similar to "hypermiling". Hypermiling is also known as "driving like an asshole".

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!