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This Is How Close US And Russian Jets Are To A Dog Fight Above Syria
With Russia now effectively controlling the skies over Syria and with the US chiding Moscow for “targeting” America’s CIA-trained proxy armies, everyone is anxious to know how long it will be before NATO’s F-16s have an actual, live fire run-in with Russian Su-34s.
As we noted on Monday, the biggest threat here is the close proximity at which everyone is now operating: "What happens next? Well, with the previously discussed Russian naval blockade of Syria as a likely next step, and with both US and Russian warplanes already flying back and forth above Syria, and now both superpowers having a legitimate, if only in the eyes of their own media, justification to dispatch land troops, what was until now a mere proxy war is about to become full blown land combat on Syrian soil, one which will soon involve both Russian and US ground, sea and airborne forces."
How close to this eventuality are we, you ask? Well, to let CBS tell it, about 20 miles:
U.S. pilots flying F-16s out of Turkey first picked up the Russian planes on radar. The Russians closed to within 20 miles, at which point the American pilots could visually identify them on their targeting cameras.
Lt. Gen. Charles Brown, commander of the American air campaign, said the Russians have come even closer than that to his unmanned drones.
"The closest has been within a handful of miles of our remotely piloted aircraft," said Brown. "But to our manned aircraft they've not been closer than about 20 miles."
Brown said he intends to simply work around the Russians in Syria, and he doesn't think they will crowd out American operations.
"We're up a lot more often than [the Russians] are so when we do have to move around [them] for safe operation, it's for a small period of time compared to the hours and hours that we're airborne over Iraq and Syria," said Brown.
A radar map lays this out best: the yellow aircraft are Russian, the green are American.
Go ahead and start the countdown to an "accident", false-flagged or otherwise.
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It's very likely that there may be an accident. It's first time since WW II that US and Russia have been bombing the same country
Gonna take right in to the...dangerzone
By Thomas Gaist6 October 2015
US and NATO officials escalated their rhetoric against the government of Russian President Vladmir Putin on Monday, seizing on disputed reports of incursions into Turkish airspace by Russian warplanes.
The Russian planes entered Turkish airspace near the town of Yayladagi, the Turkish government announced Monday.
Asked about the Russian maneuvers while addressing Spanish military leaders in Madrid on Monday, US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter reiterated his previous assertion that Russia’s growing military involvement in Syria “is tantamount to pouring gasoline on the fire of civil war.” He denounced Russian intervention in Syria as “way off track” and “doomed to fail.”
“By taking military action in Syria against moderate groups targets, Russia has escalated the civil war, putting further at risk the very political resolution and preservation of Syria’s structure of future governance it says that it wants,” Carter said.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/06/syri-o06.html
What could possibly go wrong? The US would never sacrifice a drone in a false flag surely??
Don't call me Shirley.
Remind me again, the USSA is supporting moderate terrorists to overthrow Assad, WHY?
Because he is naughty.
Because Qatar and Saudi Arabia want a pipeline through Syria to southern EU... And also to take out the Russian naval base in Syria, just like they want to do the same in Crimea... See a pattern?
And they have a Death Star!!! Bomb them now!!!
If each of those airplanes were the actual size as shown on the map, they would be a few mile long and a couple miles wide.
Jokes aside, the situation reminds of a scene from the film "The Hunt For Red October", where the American & Soviet ambassadors have a tense exchange over the "inherent dangers" of having each other's armies in close proximity.
"We're up a lot more often than [the Russians] are so when we do have to move around [them] for safe operation, it's for a small period of time compared to the hours and hours that we're airborne over Iraq and Syria," said Brown.
Of course, we're up a lot more but we're not really doing anything, and this Putin guy is making us look bad by actually doing something in just a few days. Other than that, we're up there a lot more just flying around, hoping some stupid shit happens we can use to start WWIII.
Well, not bombing ISIS, that's for sure. Two narratives that have fallen apart are the following:
1. US is fighting ISIS. That is not true. Perhaps they kept them "in-check" in Iraq (if not completely allied with them as appears to be the case in Syria), but this is a false narrative obviously. Contributing to the downfall of this narrative is the revolt within the pentagon, CIA and NSA that said, "No, things are not going well 'against' ISIS," that is because the narrative of us defeating them had to be maintained even though we were not fighting them. The frontline intelligence gatherers just didn't get the memo that it is all for show and the few who have nefarious interests in the defeat of Assad don't care about the fight against ISIS.
2. US is indifferent about Assad: Obviously, the US cares a great deal about Assad...so much so that it appears that his removal is the primary reason for the corporate intervention. There is no concern about ISIS or humanitarian backwash and this is laid bare for anyone paying attention to see. Problem is, hardly anybody pays attention.
We, the US, are fucked and well should be. If only we could actually, you know, have a say in our government, that would be swell.
Russia called the bluff and won the hand.
The radar graphic is a perfect example of U.S. desperation. Notice the collection of U.S. drones in northern Latakia and Idlib just north of the four Russian aircraft. Now, we're not bombing anything there. That's all 'moderate rebel' (= al-Jabha al-Shamiya or JaS) head-choppers, including Chechen and Uighur terrorists. The leftover FSA members are scattered around the JaS, but the JaS are literally an extremist head-chopper group by their own claims. The only distinction they have is that the group excludes both al Nusra and ISIS head-choppers because all three are in a head-chopping gang war with each other. JaS Front is just milking the stupid-assed U.S. for money, explosives and weapons through the left-over FSA mercs that are already part of the JaS Front. In fact, they're the group that looted the fresh batch of 'moderate rebels' weapons and pickups the U.S. sent from Turkey. That is, before all those 70 moderate rebels defected TO the JaS head-chopper Front.
So back to the drones. What the hell is the U.S. looking at if they're not attacking the 'good' JaS Front head-choppers? Well, we're gathering intel to feed to them so they can attack Syrian troops, Hezbollah and now (I guess) the Russians. That's all the U.S. has left in Syria: supply kill toys and intel to head-choppers.
The danger on the radar graphic is not Russian and American jets fighting each other or colliding. Neither side has any desire for that, and neither do the pilots. The next logical step for Russia is to take out U.S. drones spying for the head-choppers, and they're going to do that with their ECM drone-frying gear. So you can expect the next round of squealing from Washington to be from someone like McCain after he wet-starts his Depends: "That damn Putin SHOT DOWN one of our head-chopper intel drones! That's an ACT OF WAR."
Expect the MSM to ramp up and pin the narrative by blurring the distinction between a manned figher jet and a drone. "They shot down one of our combat aircraft" sounds a lot worse to the knuckle-dragging Americans than "They fried one of our drones". It won't stand up as an excuse for full-blown war, but expect the same tired indignation from Washington and plenty of references to furious quotes from nutjobs like McCain. All the while, the U.S. military will refuse to say what intel is being collected and who (among the various head-chopper groups) are we giving this intel to. Just like they will never account for the tons of bulk explosives we're shipping across the Turkish border to them for their cannon-launched barrel bombs (which have caused far more civilian deaths than all of Assad's 'barrel bombs' combined).
Excellent analysis.
I don't get the "barrel bomb" thing. Does a "barrel bomb" have a larger bursting radius than a nice, aerodynamically elegant bomb or cluster bomb casing? Is shrapnel from a barrel bomb worse than shrapnel from the "right" kind of bomb or an official artillery shell?
A barrel bomb is any container stuffed with bulk explosives and lobbed or dropped somewhere else. They're less efficient blast-wise than a manufactured bomb, but 20 lbs. of explosives like ANFO can still level a building, so close enough. Their crude nature isn't what makes them indiscriminate - it's how they get to the target.
The Syrian forces drop them from helicopters that stay well above shoulder-fired SAM range. That probably puts them somewhere within a quarter-mile or so of what they were actually trying to hit. You can't really aim them when you roll them out the back of a helicopter - the best you can do is target an entire neighborhood and hope it lands somewhere inside. They literally use barrels, so the amount of explosives is probably closer to 100 lbs. In a lot of cases, they ARE targeting entire neighborhoods. When the JaS Front Chechen takfiris move their whole family into a Syrian town they took over (after chopping some heads), the Syrians figure "Why the hell not?".
For their 'Hell Cannons', JaS head-choppers use containers like short propane cylinders and add a gun tube, mortar or rocket motor and fins. They are just as indiscriminate as helicopter barrel bombs. Their accuracy means they're only good for neighborhoods, not city blocks and not specific buildings. They're smaller than helicopter bombs, but the head-choppers can set up a cannon and lob dozens of these things at a time into a town causing a lot more damage. Head-chopper hell cannon 'ammunition' is made from bulk explosives that has to be shipped to them from Turkey, meaning the U.S. or Saudi Arabia or Turkey is ultimately providing the bulk explosives to JaS for making these neighborhood-bombs. It's not just ammonium nitrate fertilizer - in many cases, you can see that the JaS head-choppers are using some kind of plastic-like explosives as filler - maybe RDX or HDX. It's nothing they could possibly make themselves and they use tons of it.
We are as guilty of war crimes by enabling and supplying materials for indiscriminate munitions use as Syrian Forces are for using helicopter barrel bombs. It's just that the Hell Cannons and their source of bulk explosives is scrubbed from the media as well as the civilian casualties they cause. The various rebel groups are know to use their Hell Cannons to take out neighborhoods sympathetic to Assad, and then filmed and put on the internet as evidence of Syrian helicopter barrel-bombing.
Paveway,
One has to wonder about the drones. Since the drones a) communicate and b) are computers, they can be hacked. Who is to say that hacked drones cannot be used to discredit their owner? Say, by blowing up the wrong shit?
US over-reliance on tech IMO is contributing greatly to its demise. Breathing our own fumes, as it were.
Can anyone confirm this?
Russia "Violated" Turkish Airspace Because Turkey "Moved" Its Borderhttp://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/10/russia-violates-turkish-airspace-be...
@sunaJ,
Very good.
"This business will get out of hand, and we'll be luck to live through it."
"In my position i'm sometimes compromised by the fact that Moscow does not always tell me everything."
(You people have watched that movie as many times as i have! LOL)
US military presence in Syria in full compliance wih international law. USA! USA! USA!
/sarc
There is an easier solution to some of this. Putin should abide by the contract that Russia signed in 2007 and deliver the S-300/S-2500 systems that Syria and Iran contracted for. Russia and later Putin refused to honor their contract.
If Syria had that system these outside countries would not be flying thier jets into Syria and bombing the Syrian forces. That would also remove the risk of an accident by keeping the unauthorized planes out of Syria. The failure of Putin/Russia to honor the contracts brings into question the motives and intent of Russia.
If Syria had those systems in the south it would allow coverage for Lebanon as well. Furthering a relationship wth hezbollah and strenghening the hold hezbollah has on Lebanon.
By what right and authority is the USA flying over Syrian Airspace? Who gave them permission? Syria has granted permission to Russia tooperate in their airspace.
If plucky little Israel can overfly Syria as it chooses, then the Earth's Ruling Power can do the same. And the US military works directly for the Earth's Ruling Power.
For that matter, so does plucky little Israel.
"and there will be a mighty wind that will lay low the mountains and raise up the seas and the Goldman shall rule for a thousand years" if the word of God is anything to go by
He didn't honor it because both of those countries would have those things turned on all the fricking time. The more time spent targeting the US aircraft (drones for the most part) the easier it is for the US to engineer countermeasures and eventually make them far less potent. Best to hold back the new stuff for when you really need it.
Assad and Iran honored all the provisions of the contract.
Now excuses are being made for Putin/Russia not honoring their contract. And doing so by blaming Syria and Iran. That is BS.
Care to post a transcript of that contract that you claim to know everything about?
The contract is in yiddish, just like the source.
Why, yes I do now. I never thought about that. It didn't occur to me that the U.S. would be so reckless as to try to pick off a major Russian military base in Ukraine. I always thought only that it was an indication of U.S. stupidity that we didn't provide assurances to the Russians re the Black Sea Fleet.
I thought our foreign policy was insane before. Now I am at a loss to find a word that indicates something is worse than "insane."
This manufactured anti-Russian "hysteria" is just unbelievable.
and a butcher
a naughty butcher
Worse than Madeleine Albright?
The Butcher of Damascus.
The Monster of Mesopotamia.
and he eats fresh human unborns for breakfast
after kicking some puppies.
That screen isn't radar. it is also pretty meaningless without a scale. Source?
Whad is dis, an Atari game? If Yellow is Russian and Green is American and Syria has none, then the poor stiffs in the purple and blue aircrafts must be the next MH17 flights about to happen?
They took a screenshot of Asteroids and updated it a bit.
pods
Just like our government to turn killing into a sterile video game.
The drone consoles probably look like Candy Crush.
Here's the source:
'
http://theaviationist.com/2015/10/06/us-f-16s-vs-su-34-fullback-over-syria/
No that's Hillary.
Does she purchase them from Planned Parenthood?
And he doesn't floss afterward.
"Don't call me Shirley."
Roger that Roger, guess I chose a bad week to stop sniffing glue?
Because he studied ophthalmology at Western Eye Hospital in London?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Eye_Hospital
Ah yes, hospitals.
Thats what is missing from the mapa.
So the US is busting a 'no fly zone', we all know what happens next.
As state keeps telling us , theres no ISIS there so why are ther US planes ?
Well, at least the Sovereign Nation of Syria invoted the USSA there.
... wait a sec ....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3345326/posts
US Should Attempt To Disarm Russians In Syria: Brzezinski
He is insane. He should send his c**t daughter over there to fight. Evil old Satanic f**k,
Even the people at Free Republic are laughing. 50% of the people at FR are good. The rest are Jonathan Pollard conservatives who bow to Bibi and TPP & Goldman Sachs Ted Cruz.
Even Franklin Graham (Billy Graham's son) has said good things about (Christian) Russia.
Someone needs to fix Brzezinski's lead deficiency as soon as possible.
Attribution to ZH where I first read about this tragic medical condition known as "lead deficiency".
.. US Should Attempt To Disarm Russians In Syria: Brzezinski
Well, US could "attempt" it but the results might be spectacularly unpleasant for us...
They want something to happen.
As the Pax Britannia made way for Pax Americana it makes way for Pax Judaica.
But the world is too big for the small number of Jews to rule, so it must be downsized.
nuclear war.
If you already control something, there is no need to own it.
Plus you have plausible deniability.
Cheers Winston
BTW thanks for the heads up about Israel and its water supply - it was new to me
Because he tried to sell oil for something other than DOLLARS. Nothing will get you killed faster.
In-fighting between the Reptilian subspecies? I give, why?
are you talking about Democrats or Republicans?
I their a difference at the top of those two groups, other than the line of BS they use on the lower level party members?
Um, pipelines and energy?
Don't forget water!
Moderate Groups like Al-nusra, the same Al-nusra that openly pledged loyalty to Al-Qaeda? What a joke, moderate my eye. As said before we are not Al-Qaeda or ISIS's or what ever name they pick out of their behinds Air Force. The Saudi's are a State sponsor to these Wahhabist extremist. You look at the Wahhabi vs the Shiite, their actions and you come to the same conclusion that we are supporting the extreme nut jobs headed by the Saudis.
But, but . . . we ARE their air force.
"Remind me again, the USSA is supporting moderate terrorists to overthrow Assad, WHY?"
They want Assad out because he used chemical weapons apparently. So we are destroying Syria to save it. Try to keep up. /s
Keeping up is hard!
Try Viagra.
I don't like making my jokes too obvious... :-) I actually had Viagra in the follow-up line, but erased it.
That said, when a dog and a bitch fight, is it still a dog fight?
Because one of the parties here is some one's bitch...and we all know which is bitch and who is whooo!
The ChemWeapons Story was debunked as being instigated by the USA_Backed_Rebels for a FalseFlagOps.
You "aren't keeping up" here on ZH and the non MSM outlets enough. Come here daily.
"moderate terrorists"
Best line ever!
Why?
Because of need for Lebensraum.
Here is what Assad himself thinks http://thesaker.is/major-interview-38-questions-of-syrian-president-bash...
"If I were a pretext for terrorism in Syria, what is the pretext for terrorism in Yemen. I’m not in Yemen. Who is the pretext for terrorism in Libya? Who is the pretext for terrorism in Iraq? In fact, if we take the example of ISIS, you will find that it did not emerge in Syria. It emerged in Iraq in 2006 when the Americans ran most things, if not everything, particularly the security issues in Iraq. It emerged there on their watch; and all ISIS leaders graduated from the prisons which used to be run by the United States, not the Iraqi government. This does not make any sense. Western officials in America and elsewhere acknowledge that they created this extremism through al-Qaeda in Afghanistan in the beginning to fight the Soviet Union. ISIS is a by-product of al-Qaeda that came in a different form and in a different region. What they say does not have any value. The West always looks for some other party or person to hold them responsible because they will not say that it was them who supported terrorism and stood against the Syrian people and sought to destroy them together with their culture, heritage and all the basics of their lives."
@Latina Lover,
That would be the $64 question. I always thought that sending or financing moderate terrorists to kill people in another country was an act of war, yet I'm not aware that Obama I has sought one from the Congress.
What's a declaration of war when your name is B.H. Obama?
But maybe, I'm wrong. Maybe that isn't an act of war. Maybe Venezuela sending troops to kill members of the Nevada National Guard wouldn't be an act of war.
Remind me again, the USSA is supporting moderate terrorists to overthrow Assad, WHY?
Greater Israel.
The main thing here is that Russian planes are operating in Syria under invitation of the sovereign government of Syria whereas US planes have no such invitation and are there illegally.
If there is any accident in Syrian airspace whatsoever, who will be to blame?
Putin wants an "accident" so he can go before the 196 member UN Council and declare the US in breach of all manner of international laws. After which the US will simply ignore any scolding from the UN member and this will just make the entire UN and Bretton Woods world order look ridiculous and Archaic... During this period of Americans taking exception it will give China and Russia plenty of diplomatic ammunitation to create a parallel international organisation with far more Asian representation.
That is the play here, Putin wants a tangle with F-16's so he and the Chinese can launch a diplomatic world coup.
NATO complains about a brief incursion into Turkey without Turkish permission, yet all these green planes are well over the border without Syrian permission. Hmmm...
Turkey complains Russia is using Daesh as an excuse to attack other terrorist groups, yet Turkey is using Daesh as an excuse to attack Kurds...
Hmmm.... Acceptable our no?
Do as I say, not as I do... Western mentality is humorous at best and criminal at worst...
Criminal at least.
"We're up a lot more often than [the Russians] are so when we do have to move around [them] for safe operation, it's for a small period of time compared to the hours and hours that we're airborne over Iraq and Syria," said Brown
If US sorties were so effective, how come the MSM isn't trumpting the success.
Hard to believe much of anything coming from the US gov these days.
"Nearly 75 percent of U.S. bombing runs targeting the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria returned to base without firing any weapons in the first four months of 2015, holding their fire mainly because of a lack of ground intelligence and raising questions about President Obama’s key tactic in pushing back an enemy that continues to expand its territory in the war zone.
The U.S. conducted 7,319 sorties over Iraq and Syria as part of Operation Inherent Resolve in the first four months of 2015. Of those, only 1,859 flights — 25.4 percent — had at least one “weapons release,” according to data provided by United States Air Force Central Command. That means that only about one in every four flights dropped a bomb on an Islamic State target."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/may/31/us-bombers-hold-fire-on-...
You have to wonder, too, that when they did release their weapons did they hit anything meaningful?
The hypocrisy is breathtaking. We should all by offended by how stupid they think we are.
The UN will jealously guard their right to issue useless statements of condemnation against any possible interlopers.
Expect a letter of condemnation to follow.
If not a letter of condemnation, at least a hypocritically self-righteous tweet..
The main thing is that the Syrian government are even worse murderers than many terrorists. The fact that Russina forces are there at Assad's invitation doesn't make them more legitimate - It makes them less legitimate. Let's have a brief refresher on Russia's client the Assad family:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Hama_Islamic_uprising
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Syria
yes indeed, the Asads are great match for Putin's Russia.
yomutti - 1 week 6 days
The "debate" in U.S. official circles just assumes we have the right to operate in the airspace of any nation that displeases us.
There's also the (slightly) more complicated question of the absence of a declaration of war against Syria. What is the legal basis for us to over fly Syria, let alone attack anything there or train and supply "moderate terrorists" as some one else has aptly termed them?
I don't think Putin wants an "accident" involving U.S. planes. Couldn't he just have his U.N. ambassador take this issue of an attack on a sovereign nation up with that corrupt body? I thought the deal after WWII was that we got to war when we are attacked or, if the peace of the world is threatened, we get the U.N. involved.
Let the U.S. hem and haw about the legal justification for this out in public. Right now what we're doing is hidden behind a smokescreen of lies and obfuscation. We really are something else. It's worse than illegal. It's stupid.
The Security Council has only 10 members and the US has a veto on any resolutions the UNSC may pass. The UN General Assembly can condemn the US all it wants and the US won't care. Everyone in the world already knows the US had been operating outside of international law and an "accident" involving the US and Russian aircraft now won't suddenly make the UNGA condemn the US, in anyway embarassing to the US, like the EU nations too joining the condemnation.
There are two possible scenarios here that can change things significantly.
1. Syrian military downs a US aircraft. They couldn't have done it earlier without risking a fullscale invasion. But now they can, knowing Russia has committed itself to defending the Syrian government and foreign aircraft operating inside Syria without the government's permission are legitimate targets for the Syrian military. It will be a highly embarassing situation for the US, since they can't escalate and at the same time can't downplay the incident.
2. Israel conducts air raids on Syria and causes losses of Russian military assets. Now, this can easily be taken up by the UNSC. A mere apology from Israel, like in the case of USS Liberty, will not do, since Israel had no justifiable, to the rest of the world, reason to be operating inside Syria. It will be an incident for Israel, the equivalent of the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam's Iraq. "Friends" suddenly become punishers. The US, in order to protect Israel from a fullscale military response by Russia, will have no choice but to agree to sanctions against Israel. Once that begins, we know how it goes. Israel can't be unaware of that possibility, so they will be very cautious about conducting operations inside Syria, but just like Saddam and Kuwait they will be baited into by the US.
This is a prelude to WWIII, but not all out WWIII. WWIII is planned to be started between US & Russia/China, sometime in the 2020s, so you have time to prepare. The purpose of this war is to depopulate the global, and usher in a global technocratic government. You're signal to head to the bunker will be when N. Korea attacks the South.
Here's a good analysis of the situation if you're interested:
http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/threats.html
Here's a draft constitution for the new global government:
http://worldparliament-gov.org/constitution/the-earth-constitution/
Here's a monument the Oligarchs built that states their desire to depopulate, with the desired population being 500 mil:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
You can survive if you prepare, good luck!
What's the advantage to waiting for the 2020's?
It may be a rumor that 1 Tomahawk missle has 500 oz of silver, But silver likey the morning headlines just the same.
Yeah, he had a good interview on Alex Jones on Friday Oct 9th.
That's when Russia/China's new weapon systems which will be competitive with the US's come online. This includes China's huge new blue water navy.
Apparently we've entered some super cycle of the 7 year cycle, so that we are supposed to have a 7 year economic depression before total destruction of current world structures and rebuilding the new, global one after the war (which should end in 2022 ish).
Thanks, Nostradumbass.
Here's a draft constitution for the new global government:
I searched the Preamble and guess what. 'Freedom' is not mentioned. Oops, someone forgot.
Rights have become law of the land.
Georgia Guidestones...
Some cracker hippy pays to have some slabs stood up to drum up some tourism and they're now supposed to be a "Message From God" or some other crazy-assed shit.
They need a soundtrack...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjxSCAalsBE
*facepalm*
C'mon people, really?
Go back to seeing Jesus in toast and doorscreens.
Cracker was jealous of the nutter on the west coast that found the gold plates and the magic glasses.
I came up with better shit when I was high. At least I think I did.
pods
The Georgia Guidestones are truly a reason to despise the NWO and recognize that the NWO is State sponsored and completely deranged. 500,000,000 is much easier to control than 7 billion. That is a 93% reduction. Nut jobs, rather than focus our energy on going to space they would rather keep us down and controlled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
If the US had any integrity , it should just get the hell out of there.
This is how close the Nobel peace prize winner is getting to starting world war 3. A few miles. Fuck...
didn't alannis morisette write a song about this kind of thing?
I'm glad I had a chance to visit Istanbul before it's gone either lost fo a Dresen like destruction, or extremist take over.
One could argue the latter already came to pass with Erdogan's reign. Especially from a Kurdish perspective.
Do we have a choice between WWIII and having to listen to Alanis Morissette?
"Isn't it moronic?"
That's okay. Hillary will fix it. She's calling for a no fly zone!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/hillary-clinton-create-no-fly-z...
I'd love to see them enforce a no-fly zone on the Russians.
I'm a little sad Russia didn't enforce a no-fly-zone over Syria the minute they started operations. I really want to see those S400s in action.
Much as with Bears in the Air,
the former Soviets are as much into seeing what the limits are,
as they are in bombing the crap out of the sand brothas.
Maybe they're getting ready for live field trials of an S500 export version.
They do have a no-fly zone over Syria where they are operating. Just not declared.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/top-us-and-nato-commanders-admit-t...
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/how-russia-checked-us-plan-no-fly-...
Well, I'm calling for a NO BullSh!t zone! Think any politicians would be able to open their cry-holes if it comes into effect? :>D
I could swear that the radio told me on my way into work that NATO was upset that Russia violated NATO's airspace, and then talked about overflights of Turkey.
Shouldn't those yellow icons be to the north of that line?
Or has MY media told ME a fib?
/shocked
The girl transferred me to the officer on duty, who very politely explained: "Even before the military operation in Syria, the General staff of the Defense Ministry made a responsible decision. The essence of this solution lies in our traditional Russian desire to adhere strictly to the principles of legality and justice. So now, all of our munitions are divided into two categories: regular and moderate. Against ordinary terrorists, we use only conventional munitions. Against moderate terrorists, we use solely moderate ammunition. So don't worry, we take into account the moderation of some of the terrorists and treat them with justice."
After these words, I felt relieved. But I still asked: "Do you really use exclusively moderate ammo against moderate terrorists, is this true?!"
The source said: "Word of honor!".
I felt much better. To clarify, I asked: "Tell me, how your conventional munitions differ from the moderate?"
"Our conventional munitions differ from moderate exactly the same as regular terrorists in Syria are different from the moderate terrorists: they are painted with different paint, in a lighter and more moderate tones," - said the officer and hung up.
http://fortruss.blogspot.com.cy/2015/10/russian-justice-moderate-ammo-fo...
Up there with the best of the Onion.
The scary part is that it makes perfect sense when mirrored against Washington's position.
the very dangerous munitions have lead paint,instead of oil.
See the difference ?
Pretty easy to prevent an accident, ISIS does not have any Aircraft !!
Actually, I believe the Iraqis dropped their weapons and ran away from an airbase full of aircraft. ISIS doesn't have any pilots, so I guess it's the same as not having any aircraft....
There are mercenary pilots too y'know....everythign available, fur a price..
No one is that mercernary unless Drone. Go fly into sh#t storm ?
How is that different from driving, walking or running into one?
Heard of Barry Seal? And all of the CIA's flying fronts? Working in and out of hostile jungles to get the white powder?
Anyways, via wired, 4 years ago, I think th esupply situation is probably as good still?
U.S. Hiring Mercenary Air Force for Iraq Rescues
http://www.wired.com/2011/11/iraq-diplomats-search-rescue/
The Turks can go and f...k themselves. When Turkey performs incursions into Greek airspace almost daily despite constant protests by the Greek Government, NATO and the US say nothing, do nothing and are good for nothing.
You know he’s right. The Russian planes need to go south and engage the IDF Air Force.
I hope you're just being sarcastic, because that's the last thing anyone needs. A confrontation between US/Israel/NATO and Russia/China/Iran may be just fine to some folks (always big business, arms manufacturers, and big banks), but it would be a disaster for almost everyone else.
Let's see how the affirmative action air force does against the "best of the best" in the Russian planes shall we. Anyone want to bet there's no historic photo?
Since the Russians started their campaign against ISIS we've seen video of them hitting various targets every day. The 'Murikans have been at it for a while but I haven't seen any videos except stolen trucks, weapons, and heads being chopped.
Maybe I just missed them...or maybe it's some new etiquette deal that they just don't show it because they're the "good guys"?
Sorry, National Security.
Gonna take right in to the...dangerzone
That's what your boyfriend says.
And still US gov has the nerve to say that its Russia that is violating sovereign air space.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnsxWrPUHN8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyN8VN4BSzM
And since Turkey claims its airspace extends 5 miles past its border, yes, that's likely.
- Turkey treats as threatening any aircraft within 5 miles of border
- Officials: Turkey would have attacked had jet crossed border
Link, FWIT:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/article37739349.html
Russia and Islam Working Together, a Basic “How-To”http://thesaker.is/russia-and-islam-working-together-a-basic-how-to-repost/
US ans Russia shariing the same intereset, the same bed, US concentrates more on the south east asia part while Russia is the new hegemon for the arab countries. Kissingers visit to Moscow a few months back was the start of this pivot towards asia.
As Gerald Celente has forecasted many times: Currency wars lead to trade wars. Trade wars lead to hot wars.
Tick tock, tick tock as all of these countries have over indebted themselves and are not going down without a fight. Monetary reset? Could turn into a war that does the resetting!
The only thing muricans are bombing is empty rock...
"With Russia now effectively controlling the skies over Syria..."
*shows diagram where Russians are obvious minority in the air*
nice facepalm, Tyler...
Whatever happens, no doubt they will call it an accident whether it was intentional or not. The US is caught in a sticky trap since they won't admit they are supporting ISIS. We don't take kindly to folks that get in our way. If anyone believes these neocons will just abandon their efforts in Syria and elsewhere I think they will receive a rude awakening.
Why are nato planes incursing syrian airspace unrequested?
I didn't know Israel was in NATO?
this seems to be the turkish syrian border area
"Why are nato planes incursing syrian airspace unrequested?"
In complete violation of International law. Not that the "Exceptional" country ever bothered much about International law?
"I didn't know Israel was in NATO?"
the secret vip-member is rulig the nato
the goyim have to please its great master
Hence: ZATO.
NATO generals would be contacting their Russian counterparts about the violation of Turkish airspace.
"It's unacceptable to violate the airspace of another country," Stoltenberg told reporters.
don't get overboard. NATO has many faults, it nevertheless did never, ever, include Israel
Ghordius you are damned right on an official level but unoficially you must not forget that Israeli spies have access to virtually every communication and secret that the Europeans have.
Secrets?
And The EU has such integrity that the French were somehow "Persuaded" not to present the motion for Palestinain Statehood to the recent UN Genral Assembly? Damn, those NSA Dossiers must be really good.
The EU is being destroyed by The US, deliberately. Sanctions on Russia make no sense, and US Policy in The ME is forcing millions of refugees into Europe. Yet Cameron talks about "THe Butcher of Bagdhad, sorry, I meant Damascus". Did he mean the False Flag chemical attacks or what?
Why doesn't Europe grow a pair and tell The US to FO, just like Russia has done? This servitude and vassalhood is becoming embarassing isn't it? This view is, fortunately, becoming more widespead as a result of Putin's calling of The US bluff in Syria..
The "rebels" requested it...just ask them.
3 out fo 5 random rebel groups like mujo warplanes above head.