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Clinton Considers Mandatory Gun "Buy-Backs" - Ignites Confiscation Concerns

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Just days after talk of President Obama's gun control executive orders, and following a disappointing showing at the Democrat Debate, Hillary Clinton has jumped back on the populist bandwagon suggesting that, as Fox reports, it is "worth looking into" mandatory gun buy-back programs like ones in Australia.  "This validates what the NRA has said all along," said Chris Cox, executive director of The NRA, with Clinton's comments making “very clear” that the underlying goal of gun-control advocates is confiscation.

As Fox News reports,

Hillary Clinton said Friday that mandatory gun buy-back programs like ones in Australia are “worth looking into,” sparking criticism that the Democratic presidential front-runner would, if elected, impose gun-confiscation efforts.

 

Clinton made the comments during a campaign stop in Keene, N.H., when an attendee asked about Australia’s 1996 and 2003 buy-back programs that collected roughly 700,000 banned semi-automatic rifles and other firearms. 

 

“I think it would be worth considering doing it on the national level, if that could be arranged,” Clinton responded.

“This validates what the NRA has said all along,” said Chris Cox, executive director of the National Rifle Association’s Institute for Legislative Action. “The real goal of gun control supporters is gun confiscation.”

Cox said Clinton’s comments echo recent ones by President Obama, making “very clear” that the underlying goal of gun-control advocates is confiscation.

 

...

 

"Hillary Clinton just doesn’t get it," Cox said. "The NRA’s strength lies in our five million members and the tens of millions of voters who support the Second Amendment.

 

"A majority of Americans support this freedom, and the Supreme Court was absolutely right to hold that the Second Amendment guarantees the fundamental, individual right to keep and bear arms," he added. "Hillary Clinton's extreme views are completely out of touch with the American people."

*  *  *

*  *  *

As a reminder, there is no correlation between murder rates and gun ownership/control...

 

Of course, when someone points out the lack of a correlation here, gun-control advocates are quick to jump in and say "but you didn't control for this" and "you didn't control for that." That's true. But what I do show here is that the situation is much more complicated than one would think from absurd claims like "states with fewer guns have fewer murders" and so on. Apparently, claims that new gun laws are commonsensical can't be true if the relationship between gun laws and murder rates require us to adjust for half a dozen different variables. In fact, by looking at the data, I could imagine any number of other factors that might be more likely a determinant of the murder rate than gun ownership.

*  *  *

As we noted previously, The Democratic Party's focus on guns has drawn fierce criticism from Republican White House hopefuls, who largely say mental health, and not gun control, is the correct policy response. They say Democrats are using the shootings to roll back Second Amendment rights.

Meanwhile, just like in 2012, the threat of more gun control is having just the opposite effect of what the president intends, and as we reported earlier this week, gun sales are soaring in the aftermath of the most recent cluster of shootings. In fact, "gun sales this year could surpass the record set in 2013, when gun purchases surged after the December 2012 Sandy Hook murders."

In the first nine months of this year, 15.6m of the background checks needed to purchase guns from federally licensed sellers have been processed, compared with the 15.5m applications in the same period in 2013, according to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

Why the surge? Simple: "Once the public hears the president on the news say we need more gun controls, it tends to drive sales,” said Mr Hyatt, who owns one of the largest gun retailers in the US. "People think, if I don’t get a gun now, it might be difficult to get one in the future. The store is crowded."

Because if you want something to be truly broken, just invite the government to "fix" it. Which is not to say that everyone is a loser - two clear winners from Obama's repeated attempts to enforce gun control are shown in the chart below.

 

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Sun, 10/18/2015 - 18:48 | 6683084 Pabloallen
Pabloallen's picture

Its Treason. Come get mine.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 18:50 | 6683094 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

Funny, she might end up making a bunch of new "single issue voters". A lot of people, like myself, who swore theyd never vote for another republican again end up grudgingly doing it anyway just because of this issue, just to keep that vicious thundercunt out of the white house

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 18:52 | 6683099 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Let's be absolutely clear. It doesn't matter how many people comply with any such program there are those of us who will not comply. Strenuously.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:00 | 6683131 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The irony here, Billy, is that Clinton is a product of the very system you advocate, which is allowing the wealthy elite to call the shots.  I realize that in your unicorn world there would be no government, but even if you removed government and introduced unicorns, the same guys who give money to Clinton and who own the MSM would be creating and enforcing laws you don't like so they could maintain the power they took by force (not by offering phony candidates in elections).

The best way to keep your freedom of gun ownership is to get together with other individual gun owners and use your collective power to keep them.   You know, collectivism.  Having a Constitution, and We the People, and such.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:08 | 6683167 Exalt
Exalt's picture

Couldn't agree more. Freedoms have to be defended in congress not in your living room. The longer gun owners pretend this issue will go away, the sooner they'll loose 'em. Noone said it would be easy to halt TPTB's plans.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:20 | 6683207 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

The cartoon is cute except the smirking criminal getting ready to rob and or shoot the "law abiding citizen" is a government employee.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:25 | 6683248 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Don't criminals deserve a safe working environment?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:32 | 6683282 Teh Finn
Teh Finn's picture

Do a web search for "burglar sues homeowner."

Prepare to be dumbfounded.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:49 | 6683332 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Also search Youtube for making a "pipe" shotgun. Cost: Aprox $7.  I may build a fucking truckload to "sell back" for $100-150 each. In the end, we'll see who assrapes who...

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:04 | 6683376 Gaius Frakkin' ...
Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Haha... or if you're really lazy just 3D print Liberators...

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:06 | 6683388 Bilderberg Member
Bilderberg Member's picture

So she's desolving the Secret Service?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:25 | 6683668 McCormick No. 9
McCormick No. 9's picture

F*cking. C*nt.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:33 | 6683870 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

I'll give up my gun when the POTUS can walk the streets of America without his 100 troop bodyguard+ bullet proof/bomb proof SUV + half the city's police force blocking off the surrounding streets.

 

Until then I'll cc.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:47 | 6683908 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

All it will take is a few smaller neighborhoods, who band together and kill any goons who attempt to go door to door "enforcing this".  Four likeminded neighbors, can stop any attempt at confiscation.  Once the peons doing the confiscating realize that they might not be coming home that night, the confiscations end.  They aren't going to send black hawk helicopters to pick up my Remington Speedmaster...

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:23 | 6683984 Chris Dakota
Chris Dakota's picture

These school shootings are all fake, every one of them.

The last one was a joke, they get worse each time.

The kids in the room nextdoor said they never heard any gun shots, never saw

any wounded or any perp.

Same old crap with laughing crisis actors.

Guy shot five times and no blood, he is seen in a pic flashing devil signs in the hospital with his creepyass

friends.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:08 | 6684059 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Tom Servo,

Hello neighbor, I like your way of thinking!

Sincerely,

Boattrash

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:41 | 6684102 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

I know all my neighbors, and they are majority ex-mil vets, coast guard, navy, marines.  The wife is retired navy and is the best shooter i've seen with a handgun.  We will go down fighting.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 01:45 | 6684157 shovel ready
shovel ready's picture

 "We will go down fighting."

Sadly. Probably entirely correct.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 04:19 | 6684253 Solomonpal
Solomonpal's picture

Yeah you sound shovel ready alright.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 05:00 | 6684289 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Just for poetic justice, I hope the cunt gets pushed out a window.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 02:02 | 6684170 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Pipe shotgun.  Now that is sweet.  Tuck that little bit of knowledge away in the "just in case" compartment.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 05:56 | 6684317 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Go buy a bunch of non functioning junk semi autos. You'll make a fortune during a buy back. Plus you get to be the "good citizen" that "handed in their guns".

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 07:40 | 6684396 fukidontknow
fukidontknow's picture

Guns don't kill people - governments do.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 09:09 | 6684576 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 

In Oz at the so called buyback centers the weapons literally were RE-cycled....out the back door and round to the front...what a lovely racket that was....now that John Howard has made us so much safer, the illegal/legal immigrants are better tooled up than the police in many instances...

Australians allowed them selves to be screwed by the gun buyback and we have yet to pay the penalty....glad I won't be around to see it happen.....Poor Fella my Country....

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 10:28 | 6684812 Amicus Curiae
Amicus Curiae's picture

yeah, the weapon that the "supposed" martin bryant" used in tassie was a police confiscated in Vic weapon...prior

curious how it got out on the street for resale huh?

seems almost everyday I turn on the radio n someones got shot or drivebys

cos only the law abiding suckers hand their guns in

meanwhile the crims kept n added to their supply

 

worked did it?

pigs ass it has!

do NOT hand your guns in. no buyback no bullshit.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 09:10 | 6684579 Dugald
Dugald's picture

 

In Oz at the so called buyback centers the weapons literally were RE-cycled....out the back door and round to the front...what a lovely racket that was....now that John Howard has made us so much safer, the illegal/legal immigrants are better tooled up than the police in many instances...

Australians allowed them selves to be screwed by the gun buyback and we have yet to pay the penalty....glad I won't be around to see it happen.....Poor Fella my Country....

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:56 | 6683928 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:12 | 6683962 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Clint Liquor - " Don't criminals deserve a safe working environment ? "

They've got NYC, Chicago, and D.C. - what more do the bastards want ?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:25 | 6683250 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Freedoms have to be defended in congress not in your living room.

 

So if your home is invaded you plan on calling your congressman?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:23 | 6683447 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Let those tyrants get their tyrant on in DC.  Just remember to keep score, so when the people roll thru the area to reclaim their Constitutional liberties, they can mete out justice to those who deserve it.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:09 | 6683793 uhland62
uhland62's picture

Theoretically, the risk of invasion should be reduced by maybe spending less money on wars in foreign countries but on people having less appetite for invasions.

If you really cannot provide jobs and homes for at least 50% of the overpopulation/stranded you might consider giving them free drugs. The trad drugs are not expensive at all and when these people then sit quietly in a corner enjoying their sedatives, they're not going to invade. Saves truckloads of money for policing, courts, and prison. Just imagine some of the mass shooters had had access to free drugs that calm them down, but not the expensive ones from big pharma.

Clinton has just given the elections to the Reps. Her choice.

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:59 | 6683937 techpreist
techpreist's picture

No no, just like Mitt Romney and Obama she will "Etch a Sketch" into "If you like your gun you can keep your gun!"

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:19 | 6683975 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"Freedoms have to be defended in congress not in your living room."

"So if your home is invaded you plan on calling your congressman?"

Apparently, he's naive enough to think he actually has a congressman.

Probably thought it'd all change when the new ones got in and got rid of the electronic spying & massively rip off obummer care too.
Or that Trump or Bernie will make it all better.

America is made up of mental children.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:27 | 6683259 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

"The cartoon is cute except the smirking criminal getting ready to rob and or shoot the "law abiding citizen" is a government employee. "

 

Whether the criminal depicted is a hired govenment thug or just a low-life cashing in on the .gov redistribution scam (not declaring what he steals, obviously ) beyond their stealing on the down low doesn't matter: ordinary tax donkeys pay once if not twice for the privilege of being robbed.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:38 | 6683274 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.” 

Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Sounds like it could have been written today, doesn't it?

This is why, even if you don't like guns and want to see outlawed, you should support the 2nd Ammedment.  Because if you don't, what's going to stop them when they decide it's time to curtail parts of the Constitution you do like?

If you feel that strongly against guns, go get the Second Ammendment repealed through the proper, Constitutional path.  If you win, that's fair game.  Until that day "The constitution shall never be construed...to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."  <--- notice it says "arms", plural.  - Alexander Hamilton

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:22 | 6683658 AGuy
AGuy's picture

""The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children"

Stating the obvious: "We must protect the children by loading them up with Trillions of Gov't debt and a mountain of unfunded liabilities. Its for their own good!"

 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 01:52 | 6684164 o r c k
o r c k's picture

Their biggest liability might be when their entire generation is stalked by the family members of the million or more people the U.S. has killed in the M.E.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 07:40 | 6684393 de3de8
de3de8's picture

Except at planned parenthood

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:23 | 6683982 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Since our rights come from nature by virtue of us being sovereign individuals and since our rights are not "allowed" to us by other humans through some arbitrary power given to them by means of a system created by yet even more humans, they could repeal the whole fuckin Constitution and our rights wouldn't change. We would just have to choose to Live Free Or Die.

Fuck you, Hillary Clinton, you treasonous cunt.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:47 | 6684107 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I'm wondering how the brainwashing and social conditioning could have ever gotten so bad and so blatant in America and yet worked so well on all the clueless American sheep?

It is quite remarkable.

 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 05:52 | 6684314 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And MH nails it, that really is the core principle, the central issue involved here as when discussing any other natural right.

The federal government (or any other government for that matter...local or state or world) can only respect or restrict the peoples rights that are already there, rights you are born with.

It cannot and does not "grant rights" to anyone, it either recognizes the right as already being there or it doesn't. If they restrict it, it doesn't mean it's not already there, it only means they want to suppress it and are openly saying so.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 07:46 | 6684405 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yes.  I have rights simply because I am here, principally the right to be unmolested by others (including by a gang calling themselves "voters").  I have a right to such fruits as my mind and labors can produce.  But it is also undeniable that I only have those rights I am willing to assert, kill and die for.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:12 | 6684063 centerline
centerline's picture

Anyone who downvotes this is a blithering idiot. 

Nicely said ND.  Tolerance requires intellegence though.  Such is in short supply lately.  Sadly. 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 11:10 | 6684989 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

only "precious" if they are living and used as pawns and propaganda... the unborn ones mean nothing to these in-human, barbaristic psychopaths

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:21 | 6683437 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"...is a government employee."

"Employee" is correct - he is certainly not a "worker" if any, in fact, exist.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:43 | 6683726 Freddie
Freddie's picture

This woman and her husband break endless laws and they want to disarm law abiding citizens?

Good luck.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:12 | 6683801 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

If our laws were really applied equally across-the-board, this Clinton couple would be serving life in prison.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 06:10 | 6684322 August
August's picture

Worry not.  This is just a Clinton in election-mode, tossing a little red meat to the democrat voter.

Like when the Republicans say they're going to repeal Obamacare and balance the budget.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:18 | 6683647 Reaper
Reaper's picture

Mao summarized it best, "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Government power corrupts absolutely, guaranteed.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:28 | 6683855 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Guns don't kill people, politics does

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:36 | 6683877 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

If the average Chinamen had been armed, how many million Chinamen would have survived:

 

http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left/china/deaths2.html

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:30 | 6683994 Midas
Midas's picture

Chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature.  Asian-American, please.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:34 | 6684096 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Chinaman.  Black.  Illegal Alien.  Retarded. 

Fuck your political correctness. 

 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 01:56 | 6684167 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

Dude, he's just quoting a line from The Big Lebowski

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 02:02 | 6684171 Midas
Midas's picture

I thought it would be somewhat obvious something was up, since there would be no reason to call a chinaman living in china an asian-american.  Thanks for indulging me though, if I can get in a few Lebowski quotes every day I find this life to be a little more tolerable.  It's like Lenin said...

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:33 | 6683696 migra
migra's picture

Statistically speaking, the criminal should be a moniority. No need to be PC here gents.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 04:19 | 6684254 boattrash
boattrash's picture

migra, That doesn't apply to D.C. though...other than that, you're spot-on.

PS Fuck D.C.

 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 06:49 | 6684339 jughead
jughead's picture

Don't be a fucking ninny.  Defending your freedom starts at home...if you wait for shit to get to CONgress, it's already too fucking late.  

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:14 | 6683198 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

The irony here, Billy, is that Clinton is a product of the very system you advocate, which is allowing the wealthy elite to call the shots.

 

The lack of irony here is that you're lying through your teeth yet again. You are the one who says that government is necessary no matter how bad that government gets.

 

The best way to keep your freedom of gun ownership is to get together with other individual gun owners and use your collective power to keep them.   You know, collectivism

 

The worst way to keep your guns is to not rely on the collective power of free individuals who associate voluntarily but to follow the LetThemEatRand program which insists that we need to hand over our freedom to an elite class composed of people like him and Hillary. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you insist that an elite class give you freedom by taking your wealth and threatening you with violence then you should expect to be robbed and brutalized.

 

 I realize that in your unicorn world there would be no government, but even if you removed government and introducted unicorns, the same guys who give money to Clinton and who own the MSM would be creating and enforcing laws you don't like so they could maintain the power they took by force (not be elected government).

 

In a free market one could chose their own security and adjudication providers. I would sign up with providers who guaranteed to protect me and my neighbors according to Natural Law: the right of the individual to be secure in his person and property and his right to self defense. I would not sign up with providers who told me that they were going to pass a whole bunch of laws that Hillary Clinton and LetThemEatRand would like to force down my throat.

Under such a system one could fire any provider who failed to live up to the agreement. If the provider did try to redistribute my wealth as you and Hillary would prefer I could simply fire them. If they shot my dog and blew up my baby I would fire them. Under your system you just have to smile and take it when they shoot down your family over a mistaken address.

 

 

Call the Anti-Police: Ending the State's "Security" Monopoly

 

“We’ve been hired by three of the most upscale neighborhoods in Detroit to provide 24/7 security services,” Brown proudly informed me during a telephone interview. “People who are well-off are very willing to pay for Lamborghini-quality security services, which means that our profit margin allows us to provide free services to people who are poor, threatened, and desperate for the kind of help the police won’t provide.”

“Unlike the police, we don’t respond after a crime has been committed to conduct an investigation and – some of the time, at least – arrest a suspect,” Brown elaborates. “Our approach is based on deterrence and prevention. Where prevention fails, our personnel are trained in a variety of skills – both psychological and physical – to dominate aggressors without killing them.”

 

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2014/09/call-anti-police-ending-sta...

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:22 | 6683224 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

One simple question regarding your private security forces.  What do you do when your private security force is overrun by the one in the next town or adjoining country that is better funded and has more weapons, and they tell you to drop it or else?  Just have a shootout?  Do you really believe that there is no better system than the guys with the most guns wins at a micro-societal level?

Or how about if your private security force gets a nuke and tells you the deal is off, give them your guns?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:22 | 6683236 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Detroit's Threat Management Center detailed in the link above exists along side many private and government security services and yet none of them has ever attacked it. Would you like to ask another question which better reflects a real world scenario?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:25 | 6683241 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Which real world, the one where Detroit has the rule of law or the unicorn version you suggest?  Seriously, answer the question.  If there is no government and thus no rule of law other than on a local level, what stops the neighboring warlord from taking your town?  Giving me an example of a private security force that exists in the matrix of public police is like saying the pure zero government free market works if we have public courts to enforce contracts.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:31 | 6683279 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Self interest stops individual security firms from attacking each other just as it stops me from blowing away my neighbors and taking their belongings. Only a very small number of people attempt to kill and rob other individuals. They are known as criminals and politicians and they make up only a few percent of humanity.

Funny how you can be given a working, real world example of private security in action and find it to be less informative than the fears you imagine -- or more accurately, the fears that you want others to imagine so that you can continue to promote your elitist redistribution schemes.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:40 | 6683313 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So by your reasoning, self-interest kept Kings from invading other countries and taking their shit by force throughout all of history when there was no elected government.  Got it.

You gave me a real world example of a private security force that exists in the United States, which happens to have a government and police that would react if they were attacked militarily by some other force.  As I've said over and over, your entire philosophy is based upon normalcy bias, and you just gave me more proof.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:49 | 6683330 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

So by your reasoning, self-interest kept Kings from invading other countries throughout all of history when there was no elected government.  Got it.


A monarchy is a system of government. You are the one who insists that government is virtuous and necessary. Kings and presidents have the power to tax and conscript their subjects and force them into battle. A private security provider who attracts customers and profits by protecting the natural rights of its subscribers would have no such power.

Time and again you try to assail a system based on the freedom of the individual by giving examples of government crimes. You point out the danger that private security services and their subscribers could be endangered by attacks by government and yet you suggest that that proves the goodness of government and the failure of individual freedom and responsibility.

When individuals finally realize that being subjected to the crimes of the elite class does not protect their lives and property and they withdraw support for that system then who will outnumber whom?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:02 | 6683362 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Okay then, I'll just put all of my chips on the idea that all of humanity will wake up and decide to be free of leaders, and that no warlords or tyrants will come along to put a fly in that soup, and I'll stop advocating for collective action against the tyrants via elected government.  Because no doubt any day now individuals will wake up all over the world and do what human beings have never done throughout all of human history, and stop following others.  Great idea, Billy.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:07 | 6683392 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"humanity will wake up and decide to be free of leaders"

Ancap doesn't mean no leaders. It means no coersion. It is a form of judicial rule, but the people chose their own judges for individual disputes.

Once people try it, they don't go back. This is why no-one has been able to impose a government upon Somalia. All they have succeeded in doing is making it into a warzone. Even in the face of continuous outside aggression, they are more developed than their neighbors.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:41 | 6683510 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

Somalia is run by warlords, not judges.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:43 | 6683884 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

And currently America is not ruled by warlords? Or any other Nation State as far as that goes?

 

Perhaps Billy dreams. Perhaps LTER want an authoritarian system of Government.

 

There is NO SOLUTION.

 

As for me...

 

Who in the hell needs a gun? They do not penetrate armor.

 

I will rely upon my ability to create explosives, rockets, and poison gases for self defense when (NOT IF BUT WHEN) they decide to gut the Second Amendment...thank you.

 

Chemistry is just too easy after all.

 

Just how difficult is it to place a clay planter pot of Thermite on a Gas Meter and ignite it...for building removal? They are on every building in America.

 

Thank you US Government for teaching me how to remove buildings on 9/11/01 when the Twin Towers were downed. Thermite implosion...See how it all works out?

 

Isn't education wonderful?

 

Maybe that Planter can be placed on top of the Intake Pipe for Gasolone at the corner Gas Station. Keynesians will love that. That will increase GDP. Goodbye Gas station....along with a lot of other infrastructure. It can be done.

 

Yeah. Who needs a gun?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:24 | 6683989 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

When the SWAT team comes a no-knockin', there is wisdom in incorporating chemicals and electricity into your home defense.  You need 3 ways to kill the bugs when they enter your home.  They are best equipped to defeat small arms fire, so if you go that route, you have to bring BIG guns (.308 OK, .338 better, .50 BMG best).  They are less well equipped to deal with large quantitites of electricity, chemicals, and fire.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:37 | 6684012 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Flamethrowers are still legal in 48 States without background checks.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:54 | 6684036 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Considering that flame throwers are something like 1000+ year old technology, yeah, a ban would be useless anyway. 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:10 | 6684061 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

That explains California and Maryland laws I guess...useless.

 

Well...Thinking about it...any laws as they only provide penalties for people caught in violation.

 

Check this music El Vaquero...

 

Jon Anderson's Toltec.

 

Here is two cuts..."Building Bridges" and "Sound and Color"

 

You will like it as it brings about peace...

 

Sound and Color is more orchestrated

 

https://youtu.be/iU1K-9OISM4?t=22m14s

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:45 | 6683406 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

I'll just put all of my chips on the idea that all of humanity will wake up and decide to be free of leaders,

 

"I HEARTILY ACCEPT the motto, — "That government is best which governs least";  and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, — "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have." -- Henry David Thoreau

 

Thoreau and I are doing our part while you keep backing the system which brought us Obama and Bush and Clinton and Bush...

 

and that no warlords or tyrants will come along to put a fly in that soup,

 

If the majority of individuals refuse to pay taxes to the tyrant and refuse to allow themselves to be conscripted into the tyrant's army then what's this scary tyrant going to do? Nibble your bum?

 

 Because no doubt any day now individuals will wake up all over the world and do what human beings have never done throughout all of human history, and stop following others.

 

There you go again. The world is full of leaders most of whom are not elite government officials. Individuals follow these leaders because they make good decisions and give good advice. What makes you think that in order to have the benefit of a good leader that you must insist that that leader should enslave and attack you?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:31 | 6683864 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Fuckin-A, Billy

:-))

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:53 | 6684113 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yeah, he knocked LTER's teeth out in that exchange.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:03 | 6683943 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

From another one of my posts on Yahoo today...

 

Public schools are not there for academic education. If they were then Sports would not be a required part of the curricula. Everyone is compelled to participate in Physical Ed classes and that is not aerobics but, more often than not, it is Sports.

 

Public schools exist to INDOCTRINATE. They are there to SOCIALIZE the Children. Andrew Carnegie and John Rockefeller were SOCIALISTS.

 

If you truly love your children then you will take the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to educate them and remove your children from Public Schooling on Monday

 

But most have children.because of the unintended consequence of intercourse.. They are not truly loved but RESENTED as an unplanned EXPENSE, a burden, since most parents are NARCISSISTS.

 

And you can thumbs down this to eternity in a vain attempt to bury it...BUT THAT WILL NOT CHANGE THE TRUTH, WILL IT?

 

Then you write...

 

If the majority of individuals refuse to pay taxes to the tyrant and refuse to allow themselves to be conscripted into the tyrant's army then what's this scary tyrant going to do? Nibble your bum?

 

In fact the ones who will do it are simply resenting the fact that I am pointing this unspoken truth, this taboo, out.Unfortunately the REALITY IS that most CHOOSE ENSLAVEMENT andMOST willcontinue to choose enslavement.

 

First...They know no better than that.

Next...They are INDOCTRINATED from a very early age to do just that.

Finally...Due to the Libertarian Non Aggression Policy...WE CANNOT FORCE THEM TO DO OTHERWISE.

 

You are in a Pipe Dream smoking the Hopium.

 

THERE IS NO SOLUTION.

 

You may want to accept it and deal with that. I am sorry. I really wish that I could tell you something different. But I cannot.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:08 | 6683956 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

I used to be hopeless and then I started listening to Ron Paul. This led me to Rockwell and Sowell and Griggs and many others. The world is filled with good people. But you could likely use something more basic. May I recommend a little Norman Vincent Peale?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:35 | 6684005 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I am not writing that people are bad. I amnot writing that they are even stupid.

 

Yes I love Ron Paul's ideals too. And I am well acquainted with Rockwell. Sowell has more common sense than most people. Judge Napalitano never ceases to impress me.

 

In fact I enjoy your zestful idealism.

 

I have read Norman Vincent Peale.

 

But we are overwhelmed by the Matrix and the people trapped within. They do not see what you see. They are too programmed by their TeeVee Sets.

 

Besides...New England is currently leading those Colts by 34 to 21. Betcha they deflated those footballs again.

 

They are not here, reading this, and that is what they are watching.

 

There is no hope. They are PROGRAMMED.

 

It is funny...As I write this I am listening to The Tubes, "Remote Control" Album,,,by happenstance.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Ww9GgFxq4

 

And maybe I can win a Color Television...

 

Look...look around. They are not going to change. They are genetically wired to follow the alpha leader...which more often than not is a warlording psychopath from Hell.

 

They are not bad. They are only human.

 

There is NO HOPE in that.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:18 | 6684074 centerline
centerline's picture

Humanity will do the same as in past.  It will not organize for the greater good.  It will tear itself limb from limb.  Collective action... I can only dream.  And maybe it will happen on some measurable scale that has some impact.  But, I won't hold my breath.  Rather.  Failure will come from failure.  Not from some opposing success.  This time IS different.  But no so different... if ou get my gist.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:51 | 6683339 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It takes a special kind of idiot to think that serfdom is the same as freedom.

"Kings" invaded other countries (quite rarely) because they had expendable people whose lives had no value to them. Under ancap, throwing away people like that would get you sued and you would quickly lose your position in your little fake military.

Also, you accusing someone else of normalcy bias in this context is really, really funny.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:03 | 6683371 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

""Kings" invaded other countries (quite rarely)"

That's your retort?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:04 | 6683377 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Are you retarded? That wasn't the end of the sentance.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 01:30 | 6684145 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

This one guy was talking about weighting people who are collectivist group thinkers at the bottom of a lake.

That one guy.

 

RIPS

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:02 | 6683366 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

LTER, at this point I just say power vacuums always get filled, which is what I think you're saying.  This is the one thing dogmatic, ideological libertarians can't seem to wrap their heads around.  Everything makes perfect, symetrical, unicorn sense until this fact is realized.  I recall seeing an interview between Paul Craig Roberts and James Corbett and James was frustrating PCR who was making that very point.  People don't see it until they see it.

The irony is that we share A LOT with the libertarians, I think, but not in the ideologically pure sense.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:04 | 6683380 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What I can't figure out is why this is not obvious to everyone who even has a rudimentary understanding of humanity (that power vacuums always get filled).  But I guess not.  In any event, thanks for jumping in the fray as you said it better than I did.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:22 | 6683441 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Before the internet and exposure to new/different ideas how many of us here were even half way around the track?  People learn a couple things and think they've figured it all out.  They can build a building, but don't notice that its foundation is in sand. You should take these downvotes as a badge of honor in this case for that which needs to be said.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:26 | 6683458 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Xeer existed in Somalia for some 650 years before the power vacuum got filled by technologically superior western invaders who could never truly conquer the people who knew too much of real freedom.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:25 | 6684082 centerline
centerline's picture

Your sounding like a real idiot T.  Power vacuums get filled one way or another.  It really is that simple.  There is rarely a lapse.  Just human nature. 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:22 | 6683438 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

LTER, at this point I just say power vacuums always get filled, which is what I think you're saying.  This is the one thing dogmatic, ideological libertarians can't seem to wrap their heads around.

 

Of course power vacuums get filled, no one is disputing that. But libertarians and anarchists like me suggest that individuals can use their collective power to voluntarily organize themselves while dogmatic statists like you insist that individuals can only be organized through violence and threats of violence.

Please explain why you believe that individuals can't work together without being forced to do so. Government claims to operate according to the will of the people and claims to provide thing which people want and yet government accomplishes these ends (badly) by using force against it's subjects. Why is such force necessary? If people want freedom and security then surely they can make arrangement toward those ends among themselves without being threatened and robbed, don't you think?

Let me repeat my question in the most succinct manner: why do you believe that individuals can only be organized through violence?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:31 | 6683470 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

I'm not a "dogmatic statist."  I was stating it as a point of fact.  People are responding to the realities of human nature and have formed up in history in various ways, coercive and otherwise, in response to that reality.  I don't have to like it, it's just a fact of human nature.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:41 | 6683513 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

People are responding to the realities of human nature and have formed up in history in various ways, coercive and otherwise, in response to that reality.

 

If you're willing to admit that individuals can obtain all the things which government claims to provide but do it  through voluntary associations rather than through the violence of an elite class then why do you call libertarians "dogmatic?" If such a system can and does work as you say then why isn't individual freedom a viable personal choice rather than a dogma to be criticized in your opinion?

Furthermore, if you realize that you can get security and economic opportunities through voluntary associations rather than by following the likes of Obama, Bush, Pelosi and Boehner then why in the  world wouldn't you do so?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:50 | 6683543 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

We're not so different, you, me and LTER.  There's a story about the Spaniards showing up in a village in the New World and the Spaniard asks, "Who's in charge here?"  The native says well I guess that would be the Chief here.  "Bang!"  The Chief drops, and he asks again "Who's in charge here?"  The native nervously says, "Well now I guess it would be our Medicine Man."  "Bang! bang!" And he asks again, "Who's in charge here?"  And the native says, "I guess you are."  That is human nature and human nature is a bitch.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:08 | 6683596 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Upon hearing that story my desire is to do everything in my power to not support those who claim the right to initiate violence as a measure of control. LTER hears that story and says that it proves that the only way that the natives can be free is to either welcome the Spaniards with open arms or to support the Chief who regularly cuts the beating hearts out of his subjects' chests to appease the gods.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:16 | 6683809 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Upon hearing that story, I am reminded that neither the Spaniards nor the tribes had elected government.  There were two groups ruled by others, and the group that lost had lesser weapons, as it was throughout all of human history before we had elected government.  At least we have you talking about voluntary collectivism in a good way, and not equating "collectivism" with socialism.  Elected government by definition is voluntary collectivism, until it gets corrupted by the oligarchs you revere.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:54 | 6683872 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

the oligarchs you revere.

 

If you oppose the oligarchs then why do you continue to support them? Oligarchs are currently in charge and have been for a long time but you still sing the same old statist song.

 

neither the Spaniards nor the tribes had elected government.

 

The elected government bails out the banks with your hard earned money. The elected government shoots American children while they sleep and blows up American babies in their cribs. The elected government pollutes the land with chemicals and radiation. The elected government records all your phone and Internet activity. The elected government uses your money to bomb foreigners for their freedom. The elected government insists that your teenage daughter must share her school locker room with a boy in (and out of) a dress. The elected government forces Christian bakery owners to celebrate gay marriages by baking wedding cakes. The elected government kills US citizens with drones. The elected government refuses to prosecute those who commit crimes and imprisons whistleblowers. The elected government serves its own purposes and their interests are not your interests.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 01:00 | 6684118 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I see your points very clearly. His, not so much.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 09:21 | 6684605 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

Mr. Billy, you're hitting all kinds of home runs on this thread.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:59 | 6684116 Disc Jockey
Disc Jockey's picture

I gotta say LETR. I would hate to see you disappear from this site, please continue to comment here even if myself and others may not agree with your concepts. I've up-voted both you and Billy in this exchange, so keep up the good work fellas. 

Perhaps, we all merely suffer from an inability to express extremely complex ideas in this medium.

 

As for me, I think we're all fucked unless we can get off this godforsaken planet. Just give me my little plot of homestead on Mars away from this shitshow please...

P.S. Thanks for the advice on the 9th Configuration...fascinating movie.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 01:33 | 6684147 Adahy
Adahy's picture

"Upon hearing that story, I am reminded that neither the Spaniards nor the tribes had elected government."

Don't know much about tribal governance do you?

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:01 | 6684046 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I think that coersion is always a fact of human nature when you get enough people together.  Which is why I believe that, no matter what we come up with, it is imperative that nobody has a monopoly on the use of force.  I think that, during most of our expected lifetimes, we will be faced with a choice.  Come up with something new, or look at the new system, figure out why it failed and build a V2.0, with the understanding for both that in a century or three, we'll still be at roughly the same point as we are today, regardless of whether we continue the course of industrial society, or whether that gets put into the pages of history. 

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:33 | 6684091 centerline
centerline's picture

+1.  Failure to accept humanity for what it is, is just a recipe for another failed system.  But, of course, no one can really be politically correct about human nature.  Not even with millions of bodies on the ground - because the next false history will begin with whomever is standing over said bodies.  It will just keep repeating until something more profound happens.  It just wont stop.  It is in our DNA.  It has been proven time and time again.  Written into our works of art.  Etc.  It is who we are.  When we embrace it, it changes.  As long as we deny it, it stays the same.

Nothng further needs to be said really.  Everything else is just a part of the delusion.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 14:07 | 6685847 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Those who criticize "dogmatic" libertarians for naivete simply disregard the evils committed in the name of government.  It is as if you think that evil done by government is somehow lesser than evil done by other entitities. Thinking in a shallow pond.  The problem of evil is a real one for the libertarian ideal.  It doesn't go away by naming the threat government.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:33 | 6683695 JimS
JimS's picture

That's easy: Blackwater. Next question.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:25 | 6683653 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

 

 

"Self interest stops individual security firms from attacking each other just as it stops me from blowing away my neighbors and taking their belongings."

Yep. The psychopaths are mostly in government positions now and those that aren't are likely not too well organized to be much of a threat. There are more of us than them. And, in a government-free or very restricted government in society, we citizens would not be able to be lazy and let government take care of our safety etc. - things which are inherently our own responsibility.

 


Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:36 | 6683288 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

"the rule of law or the unicorn version "

Why don't you get real?

WHAT is this 'law' bullshit you keep talking about?

You have to have honest government that follows laws as well as dictates laws to have that -and we DON'T.

It is YOU who are spouting 'unicorn versions' bullshit precisely because there is no fucking 'law'.

I'm not even going to fucking bother listing examples of blatantly illegal and unconstitutional bullshit that has been going on for years and goes on as I speak to illustrate my point because you have heard it all before from myself and others and you still don't fucking get it or don't fucking care.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:54 | 6683343 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

DAMN!

I think you're still holding back, though.

Tell us how you REALLY feel. Remember, 'LTER' thinks Unicorns are nice, gentle creatures that ALWAYS abide by the LAW (as dictated from the Ivory Towers of 'jurisprudence'); as opposed to 'NATURAL LAW'.

PROBABLY a 'tax attorney', or 'corporate attorney' or something ('LTER', that is). He is still of the flawed opinion that 'working within the SYSTEM' (that was concieved for the sole purpose of subjugating, enslaving, and eradicating the majority of free humans on Earth) in order to BATTLE this SAME system (whose rules were set up by the Enemies in the FIRST PLACE) is STILL a 'viable' option.

He CARES, but he doesn't fucking 'get it'.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:48 | 6683469 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

LTER cares but he's frightened. That's why he embraces his abusers and tells others that no one hit him, he just fell down the stairs.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:44 | 6683730 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

IF you live on your knees you are gonna look at belt buckles and ass crack all day long.   ...Knaves.

This neo-democratic/socialist/majoritarian bullshit is pulling many many more people down than it is lifing up.  

IMHO, the neo-feudalists/oligarchs/corporatists are sequestering wealth via the statist construct faster than could be accomplished without it.

What the usurers and thugs can't accomplish on their own they can accomplish with a complicit/corrupt/bought government: and here we are.

Competition and violence are elemental facets of human existance.  

Free will: use it or lose it.

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:46 | 6683905 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

LTER is a bot or paid opposition nothing more.  It builds credibility and then uses it to attack any idea of individualism or self reliance.  I have told you this many times..  It has evolved far too quickly from its roots..

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:52 | 6683918 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

It builds credibility and then uses it to attack any idea of individualism or self reliance.

 

That's correct. It didn't quite work today but his usual pattern is to make a populist statement or two garnering many upvotes. Then he degenerates into his statist twaddle and the tide turns quickly earning him more negatives than positives. But he keeps at it and I'm sure that there are a few people who are fooled by this Wormtongue who might otherwise have opened themselves up to a brighter future.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 14:02 | 6685833 Abaco
Abaco's picture

The same things that stops the feds from taking my town. 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:34 | 6683294 r00t61
r00t61's picture

"Do you really believe that there is no better system than the guys with the most guns wins at a micro-societal level?"

Well, since government is nothing more monopoly violence, backed up by goons with badges and GUNS, it seems be exactly what you believe in, Mr. Randy-Rand.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:13 | 6683410 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

And hence, a clear demonstration of the problem with diversity.  In homogenous societies you tend to NOT get the kind of behaviour you are talking about.  Only because government acts, or fails to act, or a combination of both, do we get this mixed up messed thing we have now.  Furthermore, it is government that has worked for decades to institutionalize the plantation mindset that is so prevalent in high crime areas today.  If we could go back to the worst cowboy days (sticking to US Americans, not natives) you would see even on the worst days we did not have the violence we have every single day now.  Including the natives, you can thank the governments of England and the USofA for practically exterminating them. 

All in the name of diversity, social justice, and fairness governments have killed hundreds of millions of people in recent centuries.

Thanks government.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:13 | 6683203 Manthong
Manthong's picture

If you can fit all of your guns in the back seat of a compact sedan, you are under armored.

If you can move all your ammo on a two wheel dolly, you don’t have enough.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:21 | 6683230 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Voluntary cooperation is not collectivism. Quit with the stupidity, you're embarrassing youself.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:56 | 6683348 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

LTER's purpose is to confuse the weak minded but he also strengthens individuals like you who improve their analytical and rhetorical skills by using him as the punching bag which he unknowingly aspires to be.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:43 | 6683322 robobbob
robobbob's picture

Theres a HUGE difference between voluntarily working together to achieve a common goal, and mandatory central control and micro managing laws through threat of force. You know, a democratic Constitutional republic, with the "WE, the people" part being mostly voluntary, as opposed to progressives idea of "we the PEOPLE" enforced at gunpoint

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:53 | 6683340 Jack's Raging B...
Jack&#039;s Raging Bile Duct's picture

How banal. It's only the mass hysteria maintaining the delusion of a social contract that The Elite have any capacity to subdue us. People are prisoners within their own minds now, so chains are not necessary. The coercive might of The State only exists because its legitimacy and necessity go unquestioned in common discourse. Even still, "three percent" you pinko fuck.

Many ancient empires, and The Catholic Church had a similar arrangment that lasted for a millenia, until it didn't. Your secular god is dying before our very eyes. Voluntary cooperation does not equate a paternal state or centralized authority.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:02 | 6683776 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The majority of white American males watch their NCAA, NBA and NFL trayvon thugs  and gangstersand cheer like little girls.  They are cheering on white genocides liek morons especially SEC alumni white ball fans in the SE USA. They cheer on their FSU Trayvon Heisman rapists too.  Morons.

Until the public wakes up and unplugs TV and Zollwywood then they are dumb sheep. Conservative thinking Neo Con Fox News is your friend are delusional.  TV is not your friend but the dumb sheep love it.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:37 | 6683495 TuPhat
TuPhat's picture

I wonder how much the NRA paid Clinton for those comments in order to 'validate' their fund raising efforts.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:02 | 6683599 hannah
hannah's picture

letthemeatrand....how about you do what you want to do and gun owners will do what they want to do. fuck your debate.....this isnt some academic theory. those that possess guns will be a force to be reckoned with.

 

pick your side asshole...

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:45 | 6683903 Itgoestoeleven
Itgoestoeleven's picture

@ LTER: Cooperation not collectivisim! JO!

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 11:59 | 6685209 Beowulf55
Sun, 10/18/2015 - 23:47 | 6684022 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

We've entered a time period where common sense is now a super power.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:36 | 6684098 Jeffersonian Liberal
Jeffersonian Liberal's picture

Sounds good and all, Rand-eater.

But the collective have no bearing on my inalienable rights.

If 99% of the people turn to me and say I do not have a right to free speech, freedom OF religion, the right to keep and bear arms, the right to protest against the government, I stand against them.

Eff the collective you mention.

Only patriots willing to fight for freedom understand the resistance against tyranny that does not come from the leftist/collectivist mindset you advocate.

They join forces as individuals to protect individuality, not the rights that the "majority" (i.e., the collective) allow.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 02:49 | 6684189 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Without government, who exactly would enforce the laws? What laws?

No collective will ever defend gun ownership (or any other right) on a lasting basis, in a coercive system. It is simply contradictory. People in power fear people who are not in power, and wil do anything to remain in power. The regression experienced by the former Untied States is simply on a longer timeline to ZERO.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 09:29 | 6684623 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Having a Constitution, and We the People, and such.

 

Isn't that cute...a Constitution! Well, Hillary doesn't give a flying-fuck about your Constitution -piece of parchment written by a bunch of dead white guys...and she sure as hell doesn't give a rat's ass about a bunch of statistics. 

 

You're right though, firearm owners have to get off their asses and raise hell in Congress and everywhere else. 

 

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:05 | 6683163 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

Australian style mandatory gun buy backs?  Go ahead, Hitlery.

And when the vast majority of Americans refuse to comply? 

What then?

A few dozen Wacos? 

I don't think so.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:05 | 6683783 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Waco 1 or Waco 2?  The Texans complied like sheep to both.  Texas white males love their Trayvon football and are easily manipluated like sheep.

Both Wacos were assasinations and you never hear a peep.  Texans care more about their Trayvon thug/rapist ball players.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:36 | 6683876 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

One Waco a week until there is a reaction.

So how many?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:10 | 6683179 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

This is the red line. Make no mistake. They are prepared, FEMA camps, Jade Helm, militarization of police. We are prepared too of course. You want to see Americans unite, try this one bitch. 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:11 | 6683190 Teh Finn
Teh Finn's picture

Scurry Jade Helm came and went.  Much ado about nothing.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:16 | 6683212 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

I didn't see them take the military equipment back, did you? It's all about pre-staging and getting ready to mobilize for pre-crime. It's much more advanced than you realize. 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:05 | 6683772 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Beat me to it.

All the weapons, ammo, and mechanized equipment were used under cover of JH to pre-position materiel to be used when ordered.

All else I am afraid, has failed. We can still hope, but the timer has started. The PTB simply cannot have an armed citizenry if they are to achieve non-sovereign globalization. A case much like how Sharia law is 100% incompatible with the US Constitution.

Don't worry about China or Russia. The Enemy is within the gates; DC is the HQ of the coming violence against Americans.

Maybe a miracle can save us; let's hope so.
***
Don't think TPTB care either if they "lose" the coming war: The US will be what Syria looks like now, and that looks good to them. They do NOT want America to be sovereign or independent.

Your elected "leaders:" where are they? Lucre is more important than Liberty.

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:19 | 6683225 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Operation Jade Helm was a cover for massive military re-positioning within the borders of CONUS in order to quell 'internal unrest' when the USD collapses and Martial law is declared.

YOU are a FOOL if you do not understand this event.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:24 | 6683244 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

My friend sent me a picture of a huge vehicle that said "mass casualty" on the side, along with the FEMA logo. What are they getting ready for?

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:28 | 6683264 Teh Finn
Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:37 | 6683306 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

Nope, sorry. It was all black and much bigger. Another fail.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:41 | 6683317 Teh Finn
Teh Finn's picture

It was all black and much bigger.

Now we are getting into some more interesting psychology.  I kid, I kid.  :)

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:02 | 6683357 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Well, there is this, straight from .mil to you!

 

 

Civilian Inmate
Labor Program

o Provides Army policy and guidance for establishing civilian inmate labor programs and civilian prison camps on Army installations.

http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/pdf/r210_35.pdf

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 20:06 | 6683386 Teh Finn
Teh Finn's picture

 FTA: the Army’s Civilian Inmate Labor Program is currently limited to using inmates from facilities under the control of the Federal Bureau of Prisons (FBOP). 

I guess that is always subject to change though, right?

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:03 | 6683602 Billy the Poet
Billy the Poet's picture

Do note the use of the phrase, "currently limited."

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:07 | 6683788 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

To inflict mass casualties on us.

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 22:20 | 6683832 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Mass Casualty?  Probably a mobile crematorium that the scum dual shiti-z-en Ukrianians are using to despose of their dead troops.  Their hapless conscripted troops just disappear.  Kiev scum are just like USA Soros State Dept Nudelman leadership. 

Cheer up chaps!  The Houthi tribes in Yemen are tearing the shit out of the Saudis MRAPs, M1s and Bradleys.  

Vlad is helping Christian Syrians.  maybe he will help us out?  Nah. Dumb white American males love their Trayvon thug ball plasyers and want to be slaves. Dumb pathetic fuxx who watch college and pro ball like cheerleader girlies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSDxPo7KNs

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=209_1444139885

Keep stacking.

Also don't forget Bundy Ranch where the Bureau of Land Management employees (sic) were really Xe, Academie, Blackwater boys and it would not have worked out well for them.

The ugly MF'er at 1:22 is a merc who has been scene in either an Afghnistan or Iraq video. The douchebag with the Oakley sunglasses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_XqdQjTflc

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 08:35 | 6684495 STP
STP's picture

That's Daniel Love.  I still have the "Hello My Name is Domestic Terrorist" name tag, that they were handing out in the staging area.  It was pretty hilarious, when everybody had the same sticker on their chests, old ladies, kids and just regular Joes.  We grinned at each other, because no names were necessary, we were one, and that's all that counted.

Mon, 10/19/2015 - 00:39 | 6684100 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

The dollar will collapse as soon as we run out of zeros.

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 19:21 | 6683231 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"The beauty of the Scond Ammendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

 

Sun, 10/18/2015 - 21:40 | 6683710 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture
Shooters may be forced to hand in all lever-action firearms

The problem with mandatory buy backs after changing gun laws is they start with Semi-Automatic and then progress to ban all other manual lever action guns that hold more than one round.  By the time they are done we will only be allowed to each own 1 single shot .22 rifle for varmints.

Give them an inch, they will take a mile. 

Also if this passes I could see a proxy war going on during another American Revolution with Putin doing 100 ton small arms ammo air drops over the US to support the Freedom Fighters.

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