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Global Debt And GDP: Spot The Odd One Out
Actually, sorry, that was a trick headline: there is no odd one out, because when it comes to debt and GDP, it's the same around the entire world.
Source: Citi
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Lovely charts for skiing...straight down hill no matter which slope you're on.
DaddyO
I thought the colors were supposed to move this way: http://www.artofobama.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/enhanced.png
THIS MEANS WAR!!
For those who think that China’s "superior long term planning" is going to take over the world, the trajectory of China’s debt to GDP looks to be the worst. The China story is a credit created bubble like the rest of the world but worse.
And don't forget about the massive amount of foriegn investment, in both dollars and technology.
Imagine if the US invested $Tillions into Russia and transfered all of our technology to Russia. Russia would have done a lot better, well that is exactly what the US and EU did with China. Of course China would do well after Nixon opened them up and started the process to transfer US money and technology over. Any country would have done the same.
Well Japan is different, they have a declinig GDP
Should have included Russia's 18% debt to GDP ratio in the charts.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-debt-to-gdp
belgium is 106% and luxemborg is 24%. go figure.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp
Less buck for your newly printed money. The multiplier is going towards one, who knows, maybe below that!
The GDP in Japan seems to have peaked, maybe deflation in full swing.
If you don't watch your skiing, you might end up where you started.
One of those days 2 - Candide Thovex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKP7jQknGjs
Spot the odd one out:
Obama | Putin | Xi Jinping
(hint: He was a community organizer in the Chicago area in his early years and is married to a character from Star Wars)
Wookies keep you warmer @ night.
What is odd is we are supposed to believe those are real GDP and debt numbers, since everything is manipulated and a lie I would at least double the debt and half the GDP.
Can see the dip around 2008 in most gdp. Wonder what the next one will look like
Is the hookers-and-blow GSP, broken windows GDP, or just regular old GDP?
A bit misleading to chart them on different scales.
Indeed, totally different time scales and if put next to the % increase scales you'de see totally different charts.
These are typical populist charts to mislead the people.
This song was "hand picked", for Tyler.
Tennessee Ernie Ford Sings 16 Tons - YouTube
One of my all time favorites. The only song I ever sung at karaoke.
Fractional Reseve Banking!
DEBT! The answer to all your problems.
How do we manage so universally to put such retards in power?
It's simply the law of #'s. If you look closely in the mirror, you are all retards.
The environmentalists called. They want their hockey stick back
The problem is the GDP numbers are a fraudulent goal seeked number. Kinda like me saying hmmm.. I want to pay 20k in taxes this year, now how much money do I have to look like I made to pay this amount. I guess most people don't remember the Eu nations adding prostitution and illegal drug sales or the United States adding intangible items like research and development spending (which is an expense) and such this year to make it look like we are growing. They keep changing the calculation.
John Williams is your friend. For those not familiar. John runs his own website, Shadowstats and does his calculations on CPI,GDP ect the old fashioned way used back in the day. Brilliant economist who graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duke (you don't even get considered for admission without a min 3.8gpa). Honest standup economist that probably could not get a job on Wall Street for telling it like it is. For those needing to know the real skinny his service would be money well spent. I personally don't buy it, but do keep up with the free stuff as I operate out of the much simpler premise that if it came out of the government, ITS A LIE.
Its worse than they will ever admit, You got to have that upward slope of hope if your running large budget deficits and a debt bomb about to go off.
You can't make rational decisions with irrational falsified data. Garbage in, garbage out.
Well, written, Cow. The last line is the most important and needs to be amplified. One is not only unable to make rational decisions with dishonest data but one cannot make rational decisions when government interventions are ubiquitous, yet uncertain. Who saw the Chinese devaluation coming back in 2014? What will or won't the Fed do the next quarter? Will Greece get it's 27th bail out?
These two things together make rational investing impossible. That is not a comment just for the professional investor class. It is a comment for all of business trying to guess what the supply and demand for goods and services will be. It drives expansion, contraction, durable goods orders (especially machinery) right down to whether or not you and I get a raise or better benefits versus being dumped into the maw of Obamacare.
Or countries on the verge of war where Im supposed to believe our GDP has grown 30% since 08 to 18T and a country like China with a massive mfg base and massive projects like islands and canals is only 10T? Or a country like Russia has a GDP 2T but is the #1 oil producer, gas king and 2nd in weapons sales the same size as Italy where they have 50% youth unemployment? What the heck does Italy make besides Pizza, fat assed women, shitty cars and sewing needles? Its propagandized just like the time scale on the charts above.
Give me a break. I think some people are going to be surprised by a few nations productive capacity or lack thereof if they do get get in one.
GIGO: The definition has been changed because of the lies: Garbage in, Gospel Out. Since it came fromthe Fed/Gov
Zerohedge is dynamite...I lurked on the site for years before I started posting about ten days ago. I never posted before because people here are already on the case. You do not need me.
I've used the same alias ever since I started posting on the internet. My first venue was a Yahoo gold stock board. I was buying gold at the time, circa 2002.
Then, I moved to the Fannie MAe board where I was flamed as an anti-American malcontent and a Chicken Little because I was calling for the stock to collapse with the housing market. Stupid of me, as the collapse did not occur until a couple of years later. When it did, the jingoes disappeared into the woodwork without a single word.
After that, I moved to the NYT where I endured the opprobrium of the trolls who inhabit the Krugtron propaganda machine. I just liked to rattle the cages of those oleaginous, sycophantic little government toads.
Now, I'm here and I have to tell you, it feeels like home. Think I'll hang for awhile...
KRUGMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Give us some wisdom
Think for yourself...
Cart in front of horse much?
You sniffin' what I'm sniffin'?
I think Obama is a cocksucking queer married to a man in drag and I think there is more than enough evidence of it. I also think every fucking government number/chart is a damn fabicated double seasonally adjusted bag of shit and I buy gold with two fucking hands all day long and lost that shit at the bottom of the damn lake. That's what I think !!!!!!!!!
Tao
welcome home, brother!
looking forward to your input, wish you good learning meanwhile
Then you also notice that there are four times as much advertising, the pages now take forever to load and it will crash many browsers. That alone may get me to leave. These pages have become like the worst of those trolling ad pages that give you lists of "Ugly Child Stars who Grew up to be Beautiful and Stupid".
While I like the content I do not like pages that take a full minute or more to load. That cuts my reading.
Okay, I vented and I will say, "Welcome, taopraxis". It seems you have made good use of what you have read.
I was in an economics group that called the market crash but roughly two years early. Like Bill Blass often says, "You can be right but the timing is still key." (par).
Adblock,so easy
I use the Chrome browser - just turn off javascript:
click on the little page icon to the left of www.zerohedge.com at the top
add www.zerohedge.com to the list of JavaScript exceptions
be happy
give arrows by right clicking and opening the arrow in a New Tab (then dismiss the tab) - or the page resets to the top (at least for me)
How do you think ZeroHedge is supported? If we all block the Ads then we will be left with the mainstream sites that can afford to exist. Adblock will kill the "Free" internet. Google is paying the Adblock companies so their search ads are not blocked. The small independent sites are the ones who are suffering and Google is doing nothing for them. I really think the big boys are loving Adblock and they are hoping to drive out the bloggers and independently owned websites. So, think twice before using Adblock. It may be nice but the end result will be a mainstream media take over.
there is no problem finding what to read
the real problem is lack of time
and therefore gubbamints report to the banksters
nothing has changed in 1000 years
ww.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/17/you-think-the-deficit-is-bad-federal-unfunded-liabilities-exceed-127-trillion/
Pete Petersen and others for the past 20+ years have been adding up unfunded federal employees to over $125 tillion and derivatives and private debts notionally and real also to around $125 trillion.
Globally around a quadrillion of notional and real synthetics underpinning central banks and banking systems with a quarter or $250 trillion worthless.
Thus Modern Monetary Theory and some sort of Debt Jubilee discussion that clears out rooms when mentioned.
Thee is this idea that some sort of "debt jubiliee" will favorably reset the system. It will not. Every one of those debts has someone on the other side depending on the income. Additionally, if the forces which drive the exponential debt growth do not change we will not be any better off after said jubillee.
At some point there must be first a respect for free market forces, an honoring of those forces and then a plan to set them free to do what they do best...move the human condition forward. In essence, central planners must admit they are wrong and give up their power.
Anyone want to take bets on that?
you say jubilee and I say bankruptcy. In this particular scenario they are effectively the same thing. No way this gets paid off. At the end of the day people are not going to get back what they expected for their rate of return after the deflation of a currency's purchasing power or through the massive amount of bankruptcies that will occur individually, in business, and in govt (counties/states/federal).
yeah, I'll take that bet.... I'm no insider, nor do I have a crystal ball. Just a gut feeling. They're just gonna fold, walk out of the room, and leave a dumbfounded populace to figure out just wtf happened. Just a gut feeling, mind you, and that's good enough around here, right?
no wonder the Euro getting stronger. (i need to buy in 30 days)
keep printing Yellanke.
One thing is abundantly clear. Credit is no longer highly correlated to GDP. Dr Krugman... paging Dr Krugman... We have diminished returns on charts 1 through 6... Dr Krugman... paging Dr Krugman... Get your ass in here now we have debts to pay!
That's because a dollar in the government budget isn't the same as a dollar in yours. In national accounting, dollars are of no consequence, the asymptotic effect on GDP is your proof. He's got a metal waiting for his argument.
Doesn't the nation that racks up the most debt win the game ? I mean, aren't all in competitive devaluation, with none ever intending to actually pay off the debt they accumulate ? So China is pulling ahead in the game, the amount of U.S. treasuries they hold not withstanding ?
This ponzi game cannot and will not last in perpetuity despite the arrogance of flogs like Krugman
The US and Brazil look to be tied for first or is that last; I'm confused.
To everyone with savings and no debt: Get your savings out of the hands of others (who WILL turn it over to predators-that-be within a few years if not months).
Convert your savings into something real (precious metals, real-estate in places with much less insane "governments", productive equipment and supplies).
And most important, if you live in the evil empire (USSA) or any of its allies... get the hell outta dodge, and move to some rural area in some safe, pleasant, but out of the way part of the planet.
The locusts are coming, and the locusts are everyone now in debt.
Actually, the EU is the odd one out. Its nonfinancial credit has been flat for the last 5 years, while all the others are still rising exponentially.
Off the top of my head, I think that a chart of Russian's Debt / GDP would look rather different...
correct that the European community is the ODD one out.
And I absolutely agree that the ZeroHedge web page is getting so heavy with adds that it is taking forever to load. I'm also thinking about dropping out of this site because the web page is unresponsive.
HINT TO ZH: Demand that your advertisers meet strict limits on the loading times for their info on this site. If they are too slow - Kick them off! Otherwise you get burned, and the poor speed of your page is just the money-trolls.
PrimalScream
Just get real, use adblock/chrome for gods sake and quit moaning. I see absolutely NO adverts at all!