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The 'Problem' With Bernie Sanders
Submitted by Yonathan Amselem via The Mises Institute,
Bernie Sanders’s entry into the presidential race has sparked a nationwide conversation about socialism and its potential to remedy the real and perceived pathologies suffered by Americans. Throughout Sanders’s extensive political career, he has proudly labeled himself a socialist while being careful to distance his ideological roots from basket cases such as North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, and other collectivist nightmares. Rather, as with most progressive socialists, he considers himself a “democratic” socialist sharing more in common with the relatively wealthy Scandinavian countries.
It is interesting that progressives like Sanders can look at a rich country like Sweden and automatically conclude that the nation’s high living standards do not result from a laissez-faire past, low levels of national debt, monetary independence, no centrally mandated minimum wage, strong legal protection of property rights, a level-headed central bank, low corporate tax rates, or even Sweden’s gradual move toward more privatization in healthcare, social security, and education. Rather, progressives naturally assume that Sweden’s high living standards are a product of their high taxes and nationalized industries.
But, imagine if LeBron James took up smoking. Any success on the court would be despite his destructive habit not because of it. Sweden’s economic success has come in spite of its socialism.
I will focus on just one Scandinavian country, Sweden, given that it has often been touted by progressives as a sort of heaven-on-earth. A (very) brief history of this fascinating country might help us better understand Sweden’s current high living standards and the many ways in which Swedish socialism has set an unnecessary cap on the nation’s productivity.
Sweden: From Crippling Poverty to Unheralded Prosperity Through Laissez-Faire Capitalism
Some 250 years ago, the area we recognize now as “Sweden” was a frozen tundra inhabited by a huddled mass of starving peasants. Their lives were tightly controlled by a series of kings, aristocrats, and other men of artificially high esteem. As award-winning author, Johan Norberg points out in this excellent piece on Sweden, it took a series of classically-liberal minded revolutionaries to wrestle control from the elites and put Sweden on a path to prosperity.
Licensing czars, an oppressive guild system, and a litany of other onerous regulations on free exchange were dramatically reduced or eliminated. In the century from 1850–1950, the population doubled and real Swedish incomes multiplied nearly tenfold. Despite the almost non-existence of a welfare state or any major state control of economic sectors, by 1950 Sweden was the fourth richest nation in the world. Sweden’s extraordinary growth during that century rivaled even that of the United States (Sweden was not a participant in the two World Wars). As a matter of fact, capital formation and wealth creation proved so abundant in Sweden during the global depression of the 1930s that even social democrats in the legislature practiced a form of salutary neglect to ensure the prosperity would continue. As with any other country, Sweden’s impressive capital stock was built by entrepreneurs operating in a free market system.
Sweden’s Experiment with “Nordic Socialism” is Relatively New and Has Been Disastrous for Growth
Big business looking for government protection worked alongside ambitious politicians and union leaders to force Sweden into adopting socialist policies in the decades following its impressive growth. Over time, government spending more than doubled and taxes in certain sectors were doubled or even tripled. Despite these calamitous changes, by 1970, the OECD still ranked Sweden as the fourth richest nation in the world. However, by 2000 Sweden sank to number fourteen. Dr. Per Bylund from Oklahoma State University has previously pointed out that from 1950–2005, Sweden did not add one net private sector job. Nordic Socialism has frozen a once entrepreneurial and prosperous people in time. With few exceptions, Sweden’s large businesses have very little incentive to innovate (and they have not), and many enterprises now survive purely on government contracts whose value is impossible to ascertain without a system of free exchange to establish prices for goods and services.
Sweden has managed to live comfortably for decades despite its many heavy-handed socialist policies only because so much capital stock was created in the decades prior (not to mention a sane monetary policy). Yet this capital consumption is eroding Sweden’s wealth. In 2007, Professor Mark J. Perry from George Mason University pointed out that if Sweden were to be admitted as a 51st state to the Union, it would be the poorest state in terms of unemployment and median household income. Yes, even poorer than Mississippi. In fact Sweden’s current welfare state suppresses household incomes so effectively for Swedes that a 2012 IEA study found that American Swedes have roughly the same unemployment rate as Swedes in Sweden yet earn, on average, 53 percent more annually.
In recent years, Swedish lawmakers have begun slowly privatizing chunks of their socialized sectors such as healthcare, social security, and education. Last year, Reason magazine pointed out that private health insurance has exploded in a country where cancer patients may wait up to a year for treatment in the state-run system. This trend has grown. Sweden, furthermore, has begun outsourcing education to private providers and seen not only a reduction of costs but an increase in parent satisfaction and learning outcomes for graduates.
Bernie Sanders has Picked up the Wrong Lessons from the Nordic Model
Bernie Sanders has stated now, and in the past, that he would like to see an America with universal healthcare, paid maternity leave, expanded social security through higher payroll taxes, mandatory vacation days and sick leave, free secondary education, and the enactment of a slew of other progressive policies. It seems he has only forgotten to promise yachts for the homeless.
The underlying problem with socialists like Bernie Sanders is that they do not actually believe (or understand) in economics at all. As Ludwig von Mises himself has pointed out, socialism is not an economic theory — it is a theory of redistribution. Only free exchange can coordinate entrepreneurs and their resources in a way that creates actual goods and services that satisfy consumer needs and wants. Socialists like Bernie Sanders take no part in this process of wealth creation; they merely show up after the fact and demand title. Sweden has practiced this form of parasitic socialism on their accumulated wealth and it has significantly stifled Swedish productivity.
Nordic-style policies advocated by Sanders have (predictably) restricted Sweden’s growth for decades. The notion that we can implement Nordic socialism in a nation of 320 million people without destroying labor mobility, taxing capital out of existence, and absolutely crippling innovation where it’s needed most is pure delusion. Sweden is slowly returning to its productive capitalist roots. We should do the same.
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"Mumbler" Sanders is a lying POS, that is his problem.
"The goal of socialism is communism."
Vladimir Lenin
The most interesting thing about Bernie Sanders leading in the Democratic nomination race is that he has never run for office as a democrat.
And that is where all interesting facts about Bernie screech to a halt.
Bernie's Brooklyn drawl and Ashkenazi anscestry are enough to turn this composer's stomach. (Not to mention the expected communist/socialist claptrap and evasion of truth eminating from its obnoxious maw.)
Also not to mention, the way he folded like a cheap card table when the #blacklivesmatter agitatrixes rushed the stage. Oh yeah, that's the guy we want as Commander In Chief.
Another point or two about Sweden. Mass alcoholism, dissolution of families, brain drain, emigration, explosion in crime, rise of far right parties, and all the other illnesses associated with Socialism. I work with a number of Swedish ex-pats and they can't say enough bad things about the country.
How can anyone say anything Bernie says is "new"? It was new in 1837 when Queen Victoria took the throne, everything Bernie and the socialists have been saying is the same old, same old since WW1!
Right, Nordic Socialism in the US...problem is Bernie, your Tribe robs the place blind and fights too many wars to ever provide the services for the people you would like.
I am Ashkenazi rat. :-( Sorry.
You're right. It was about the mid-19th Century that the NWO social engineers threw the switch on class warfare and religious cultism to drive the masses towards the horizon of the Crazytown we now face.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwwYuW2tzUo
@44:00
Democracy is the road to socialism.
-Marx
Democracy is the ‘only’ weapon against private tyrannies. Americans don’t have the slightest idea what democracy is all about, because democracy involves telling the truth.
Mob Rule isnt cool...ask the guy getting lynched.
RIPS
maybe they dont know because America was set up as a constitutional republic, not a democracy....and for good reason
it worked pretty well for the first 100 years
not so bad for the next 100
then everyone fell asleep watching Dancing with the Stars, while texting about the latest Kardashian crises
its the progressives (socialists) who keep screaming loudest about the need for "democracy"
America was setup as an OLIGARCHY, not a constitutional republic (whatever the fuck that is).
The 'Murican education system breeds 'Murican exceptionalism (or exceptionally naive and misinformed 'Muricans)
Why don't you examine the names of the pure and base forms of government in both English and Ancient Greek, and then ask yourself,
"who switched those around and why?"
Question. Which entity does more damage to the world?
Tribal Warlord or Modern State.
Choose wisely.
Bernie Sanders and/or Hillary Clinton are the next logical step toward socialism and control. Individualism is their enemy as they want, no expect us all to worship them like small children hanging on their every word and instruction. They will feed and clothe us and care for our every….. vote.
What works in Sweden will not work here. Privatization would be corrupted, quality only briefed on Power Point presentations, and the few receiving funds would be later found guilty of fraud, after they and their families became very rich.
America is much like the Johnny Cash’s, “One Piece At A Time” song:
Well, It's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56
'57, '58' 59' automobile
It's a '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '67
'68, '69, '70 automobile.
We are too mixed up to fix.
Communism has not a single concern with socialism.
That is rubbish. Communism was a purely Russian addaption of Marxist theory. Socialism as practiced in most advanced countries such as Britain, Europe, Australia and South America involves people ownership of basic services such as health, water, roads, sewerage, sometimes electricity and public transport. The aim is to provide low cost services for everyone in the community. If these services are sold to corporations, the resulting monopoly invariably charges more than if they were run by government. A good example is health in USA where they have the most expensive system in the world delivering least services to the community due to unaffordability. Overall USA health system is one of the worst in the developed world. Cuba has one of the best health services in the word!
I think the informal economies are more like the model of capitalism than the formal economies. The informal economies are more like what Adam Smith would have called a market. In contrast, the formal economy — the international economy — is a kind of mercantilism, or corporate mercantilism, with administered markets and administered interactions, much of it involving interactions among alleged competitors.
For example, IBM, Toshiba and Siemens might work together on some development project, while they are all supported (in not such complicated ways) by socialization of risk and cost. That has little resemblance to anything an advocate of free markets would support. And these are not small proportions. The numbers we are mentioning, such as the percentage of central administration of cross-border interactions — which we call “trade” — these are undoubtedly large numbers. Similarly, techniques of tax evasion and laundering — what probably lies behind the FDI figures I mentioned before — have not been very closely investigated, as far as I know.
http://chomsky.info/20000303/
Just exactly how does a Socialist country prevent itself from becoming a country like North Korea? There are no checks or balances and the citizenry is unarmed.
the modern models of socialism are less than 100 years old. and many only 50
it remains to be seen how the make out long term.
my money is on total enslavement or total crash and burn
"It remains to be seen"? Only if you have no ability to think.
Cuban health services are absolutely terrible for 95% of the people. Terrible
If you think that the USSA has a free market healthcare system, you are blind. Working in healthcare for 6 years while going to college, the only thing I could find that wasn't regulated by The State were pencils and pens. This is not hyperbole. Out of context to healthcare, even the pencils and pens are regulated.
There is nothing free market abou the USSA. Not a god-damned thing.
Free market capitalism is just one version of capitalism. There does not have to be free markets to have capitalism (yes, the libertarian wet dream of capitalism). See some of the difference types of capitalism here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Types_of_capitalism
Sweden, Denmark and Norway are all capitalist countries at the core. The productive/profit generating companies are privately owned. There are taxes (redistribution) on the capitalist economy to finance healthcare, education, infrastructure, social security, law and order (prisons and police) and defense/army. The capitalists in the Scandinavian countries have seen that this as a competitive advantage – the right-wing supports most of the public expenditures on these grounds. A healthy, well-educated, mobile (both physically – infrastructure – and workwise – social security) and secure population is more productive = it’s good for the economy = it’s good for the capitalist owning the (major part of the) economy.
At best in can be called a mixed economy but with a core of capitalism.
I think the most important part of the success of Scandinavian countries are the political culture – there are a multitude of political parties and at each election there’re new parties forming (and being elected). That makes the political debate much more nuanced, critical and representing real alternatives (not like the Kabuki-theatre of the US). In other words: there is an actual opposition in the Scandinavian countries – TPTB has to legitimate themselves (in US power/money is legitimation in itself).
To make the Scandinavian countries socialist the ownership of the production (and banking) should be socialized. Right now the tendencies are towards the opposite. In Denmark the telecommunication sector have already been privatized (not to the benefit of the citizen and/or telecommunication), the post-service have been privatized (again, only benefiting the ownership-class), the energy sector is partly privatized (a big chunk of DONG – the Danish major energy-producing/-distributing company – have been sold to Goldman Sachs/the devil), the railways and many public transport companies are next in line. The tendencies are towards more capitalism (waste/mismanagement of resources and benefiting the few).
Now that you're done masturbating to a fantasy, let's talk about reality.
To legally create and operate a business one must ask and tithe for permission to:
Form a business entity.
Hire anyone.
Pay anyone.
Create anything.
Sell anything.
Retain any revenue.
Retain any property.
Within context to the United (sic) States of America, every one of these steps contains multiple levels of regulatory burden at both the Federal and State level at minimum. Factoring in county and municipal level is an overwhelming probability. There is nothing remotely free about any system like this. If profit motive where the only requirement to call something capitalism, then Marxism could be capitalistic too, in that it seeks to organize all of society for the efficient production to benefit (profit) everyone.
Cuba dealt with AIDS by forcing AIDS sufferers into internment camps. Many of them killed themselves. I suppose that is a frugal approach, but I would not call it "best in the world," nor would I want to copy it.
I wonder if all the useful idiots down-voting my comment above are also comfortable with the other eerie and uncannily contemporary quotes attributed to Lenin found here?
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/v/vladimir_lenin.html
"The goal of socialism is communism." - Vladimir Lenin
I coined a phrase a long time ago and everyone is welcome to use it, it's an original...
"Every pregnant socialist gives birth to a bouncing baby communist" - nmewn ;-)
They just have to get past Planned Parenthood first
Bernie has always sounded more like a textbook version of the facsism we saw rise to prominance in the 1930s in Germany, Italy, and the US. So, since facsism/socialism has gotten us to this point, moar facsism/socialism will fix it? I don't think so
American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743284461?keywords=chris%20hedges&qid=1445208661&ref_=sr_1_8&s=books&sr=1-8
makes no difference who is president
Yawn. Even if somehow Sanders became president, he would still be controlled by the wall street bankster elites, and the MIC. The 'fact' that he is a socialist is irrelevant.
+100. Just like Greece and France.
The fact is that when Wall St fails it goes back to mommy and sucks from the tits of socialism itself.
Thank you. All the ZH haters need to acknowledge: we already * have* socialism. For Exxon, Monsanto, Google, AT&T, the Beltway, Lockeehd Martin, and Wall St. That's not just a FSA, that's a FS Oligopoly with hundreds of billions in free money being showered on them. They don't get free iPhones, they get free private jets and islands. Bernie's brand of socialism is for you and me. Get it?
Bernie's brand os socialism left the barn decades ago
today it would be instant suicide for a bankrupt country with a wrecked economy neck deep in global warfare
does no one remember clowerd piven any more?
Bernie Sanders is never going to be a candidate for POTUS. Even the Democraps aren't that stupid.
Not the democraps, but the military-industrial complex decides for Hillary, because she warmongers against Putin.
just end the goddamn Usury............Usury re-distributes your labor (the 99%) to the (.0000001%)........from the bottom to the top.........
and the majority of you people dont even get it.......
Wants taxpayers to "feel the Bern."
No, some of them do understand economics. They also know that being in power gives them access to the money without creating anything of value. Socialists like Sanders would freeze on the way to starving to death if he had to actually provide value through work. The Nordic Model that American socialists just love to point at is collapsing. It doesn't work.
Wall street creates value ?
non sequitor what?
wall street is not main street
by and large it has turned into a parasite
and it is NOT a example of captialism in action
and don't think for a second the socialism would change any of that
except delivery the coup de grace to the middle class
I read this all the time about the Nordic Model failing and the evil socialists in Europe are failing. Newsflash to you all, the American model is completely failed and is only being held together by the invention of trillions of dollars. I don't advocate for socialism, but just admit that whatever fucked up ism we have in America is dead as fried chicken.
Bad analogy with Bolivia. It's socialist and very prosperous thanks to healthy small business and the lack of crony capitalist control. We're building apartment buildings there right now and the economy is booming.
Right now the problem is we have Socialism for the rich, and free enterprise for everyone else.
This article is a perfect example of Mises. All ideology and no facts. Sweden has been socialist by Mises' definition for 100 years. It has never been truly socialist, of course. It's a mix of capitalism and social policy. And it has been a roaring success. The argument that Sweden is just living off the efforts of capitalists in the distant past is laughable, but of course that also defines the Mises Institute. The Misis Institute, oligarch apologists since whenever it was formed.
Right, socialism means nationalization of corporations, no bigger private enterprise. In Sweden their exists a very wealthy elite too, but there is a public consensus to redistribute more of that wealth than in the US in order to establish e.g. health care as a basic right. It's nothing fundamentally different, it's just a quantity.
This piece is a rather fanciful misreading of history. It's aimed at your average illiterate half-wit who thinks capitalism means he can get rich too. The entire world has been capitalist for hundreds of years. There isn't any 'outside' perspective. Sweden is simply a smaller, slightly fairer society whose members enjoy more privelges than the members of most other societies. It's as part of the capitalist world-system as any other country today whatever ideological experiments the state might engage in. Oh, and Obama the socialist, only in America would anyone be retarded enough to think that. He's a fiat money, fractional-reserve, mainline capitalist like the rest, just with a little more hyprocrisy in the mix.
For the life of me, LTER, I can't figure out what your philosophy is. You apparently hate libertarianism but don't support anything that can be reasonably defined.
What does LetThenEatRand even mean?
The best summation of my philosophy is that if you can easily define your philosophy by an -ism or an -ology, you are a fool.
Ayn Rand was a corporatist, MIC and oligarch loving Zionist. Her protege Alan Greenspan orchestrated a massive transfer of wealth to the oligarchs, and the best answer I ever get here when I point that out to Rand fans is that he didn't really mean it when he co-wrote with her. But this could not be further from the truth. Her philosophy was one of neo-feudalism, involving a wealthy elite "productive class" who owned the place. You were either in the big club, or a serf. Exactly what we are becoming. I am libertarian in terms of things like gun ownership and freedom of speech, abolishing the war on drugs because who cares if individuals want to take them, and dismantling the police, prison and military industrial complex. I lean socialist on not allowing dynastic wealth because it tends to result in the ills of our current society, and because societies are healthier when there is a vibrant middle class and workers have collective bargaining power, worker friendly trade laws, and reasonable immigration policies that don't allow cheap labor in to take their jerbs. I like public roads and schools and airports, too.
"Y U hate Murka?"
(Just summing up any future rebuttals.)
You're shitting on my freedom to be a serf,--ya damn pinko!!
Nice overview. Good to know you value and prize liberty so highly. But freedom isn't free and liberty constricted should be subject to consent and reciprocal obligation.
Perhaps you are conflating the desires of preserving the Middle Class, which (as a class) is the product of free market capitalism, with the only solution being Socialism...for the abuses of crony capitalism. This is where the Socialism trojan horse is usually slipped inside the walls.
Human nature and its potential for fairness, creativity, wealth and productivity is best expressed and realized in free market capitalism (as well as its problems of excess and abuse) and this may be the reason it is targeted as only a problem to be solved by the ever encumbering limitations of Socialism.
Socialism is the cure for the disease it has diagnosed as Liberty. As prescription without caregiver nor disclosure of side-effects.
Libertarianism can be a cure for crony capitalism by revitalizing the benefits of free market capitalism and prosecuting the criminals to the full extent of the law. This true preservation and nurturing of the Middle Class will ensure the future benefits of social programs (not Socialistic programs) allowing an expanding and vibrant Middle Class wealth and all the financial and political freedom and security that accompanies the realization of individual potentials. Then who would need Statist Socialism?
FYI an alt avatar could have been Feud for thought
People still don't get it yet; we are moving to a point where there will simply be no need for humans in the workforce. Like it or not, the solution is for the government to profit from that technology (that makes people redundent), and then pay everyone a living wage. The alternative is to get rid of the useless eaters (cough, you already have 90 million btw). If I had to guess I would say it would probably be done with a viral outbreak that makes most people infertile... its slow, easy to manage.
I wish they would tell us so i dont have to keep worring every month !
Bernie is the best we got so far.
At least the best of the worst.
The cleanest dirty shirt in the bin is still a dirty shirt.
Why you coming down on my sunday?
If you ask this innocent bystander, I say that the socialist Nordic countries were doing just hunky-dory before they turned over their financial systems to the thieving Western Central Banker model and deficit-driven Keynesian kleptocratic debt pushers.
So I would say.
Yes. They invested in AAA+ rated trash and now socialism has "failed".
After all of the Revolutionary smoke cleared in the 1700s, the Baron class conceived of the scheme we see unwinding today. First, they took over financial institutions. Then, they took over governments either directly or more often via well-paid henchmen and stooges.
They then took over the world one country at a time. We were sold capitalism, but in reality it was cronyism married with feudalism.
The Nordic states merely were the strongest and hence the last to fall.
True enough. Don't forget that they're also allowing in millions of turd world scum bag degenerates who do nothing but murder, rape, rob, and leach off the productive Whites because they've let jews take over their country and now they're facing genocide.
Well they have to ensure there are powder kegs ready to go off in as many places as possible as WW3 unfolds.
What better way than a clash of civilizations spiced with a large amount of religion?
I like my fodder with a pulse.
That is all.
I heard one comedian say the other day, If Bernie Sanders is elected president do you realize he will be the first socialist president we’ve had since 2008?
That was Jay Leno on the Tonight Show.
No, the biggest problem with him is that he is a jew. That being said, it's no surprise that he is a Marxist degenerate. He should be president of his beloved israel where he can preach the joys of marxism and multiculturalism to them but then they aren't much into multiculturalism when they're in israel for some reason.
Seig heil!
fuck you sanders and fuck anyone who believes his lies
His 'problem' is he refuses to bathe. 'Leaders' are bad enough.
We don't need no 'stinking leaders'. His breath is probably worse
than Larry Kings. Old coffee and cigarette flavored doughnuts.
Think tanks like the Mises Institute, which all represent private interests and keep spewing, on and on and on, the unadulterated BS their plutocratic agenda requires you to believe, are the true plague of Thinktankistan, aka the USA.
This whole piece should be read as "Don't vote for Sanders. He is the enemy of we, the plutocracy".
I think Bernie's socialism is best understood as a willingness to use the State to smooth away the sharp edges of contemporary capitalist society society. It's certainly not revolutionary a la Marx and Lenin and really represents an echo of Roosevelt's reforms in the 1930's. Genuine socialists dislike his policies because they are likely to help capitalism continue in the future.
The fact is we are deep in the destructive consequences of socialism. And Bernie Sanders comes along to put the nail in the coffin.
As to FDR’s reforms, nobody summed up the crime of this central planning dictatorship as did Herbert Hoover where the central government was enabled, among many other things:
· To debase a coin and set its value; to inflate the currency; to buy and sell gold and silver; to buy government bonds, other securities, and foreign exchange; to seize private stocks of gold at a price fixed by the government; in effect giving the Executive the power “to manage” the currency;
· To expend enormous sums from the appropriations for public works, relief, and agriculture on projects not announced to the Congress at the time appropriations were made;
· To create corporations for a wide variety of business activity heretofore the exclusive field of private enterprise;
· To install services and to manufacture commodities in competition with citizens;
· To establish minimum wages, to fix maximum hours and conditions of labor;
· To impose collective bargaining;
· To organize administrative agencies outside the Civil Service requirements;
· To abrogate the effects of the anti-trust act.
“Most of these powers may be delegated by the Executive to any appointee and the appointees are mostly without the usual confirmation by the Senate (Hoover).”
Many of the “reforms” were instituted as emergency measures during the Depression but once the crisis passed, the measures stayed and each socialistic government in the following years, directed by the bankers, added a multitude of new central planning dictates.
The book "The Naked Capitalist" by W. Cleon Skousen tells the facts about the secret worldwide plot by the super-rich to convert all governments, including that of the United States, to world socialism, which they, the international bankers and business cartels, would control. Hence, George Soros’s international socialist agenda. Dr. Carroll Quigley's book, "Tragedy and Hope," also exposes the world's secret power structure whose leaders hope eventually to attain total global control.
So how is "paid maternity leave" related to "yachts for the homeless?" Is this article a 5th grade debate? How disappointing.
Sanders and Trump may be less than optimum choices, but voting for the status quo isn't very appealing to most voters either.
Anyone wanting to make the case that we need to stay the course please go right ahead.
Lost me with this: socialism is not an economic theory — it is a theory of redistribution.
This is more descriptive of the past 10 years of wealth redistribution via "capitalism"
Bernie just wants to aim the printing press in the other direction
Given we're already destined for a reset, let the 99% have a chance to load up on guillotines, rope, and torchss
The true evils of socialism can be understood by what’s happening in America: enveloping socialism with a financial dictatorship. Ironically, the same system was developing under Mussolini’s fascism in the 1930s. Here’s a description from Herbert Hoover written in 1935:
“Large measures of support to the financial system were required. The banks were compelled to support the stock market, and government credit was furnished to them for this purpose. In the acute period of 1931, and again in 1933, the banks, becoming overloaded with securities, had to be relieved by government action, and a series of new and supplemental credit agencies had to be created by the government to prevent financial collapse.”
Sound familiar?
Vaguely.
Bernie Sanders Nay
Colonel Sanders Yay
I like Vermont...cool state. Sanders' problem is that the extant system of extraction is too entrenched. It is not fixable. If, by some miracle, that old man became president, he'd be handcuffed by the bureaucracy and rendered powerless.
Socialism does not work because it is contrary to human nature. Every utopian experiment ever attempted failed, especially if the leader's wife was caught in flagrante delicto with his best friend.
Utopia and dystopia are the same thing from two different viewpoints.
Voting will not save you, my friends.
The Sanders name, has got to be from the Fraternal side of the family.
That guy looks about as French, as you can get.
You may call socialism a theory of redistribution, but then what do you call the present system? It is certainly not laissez faire capitalism.
The US economic system is best classified as fascism. The redistribution goes up rather than down. There is no market, no Schumpeterian creative destruction. Size matters and confers upon those corporations or individuals large enough to throw their money around a license to suckle the public tit. These "capitalist" corporations do not receive handouts, bailouts, and protection to merely stay in business; the money is used to pay management outrageous salaries and bonuses and prop up the share price.
There are many aspects of the American economy which are socialist by nature including the armed forces, police, and ari traffic control. We have social security and medicare. These are all "socialist" programs supported by most Americans in one form or another. We have taxes to pay for this. So America is already socialist. It is not "socialist" as you might put it, using the term pejoratively to describe Marxist-Leninist communism nor is France, Sweden, Germany or the rest of Europe.
Calling Sanders a socialist is on par with George W. Bush calling Al Qaeda "fascists". It is a facile bit of tarring with the wrong brush.
But please, continue. And explain how socialism is evil.
Your diagnosis of fascism is correct. Socialism is not evil, it is simply not a viable solution. I wish it were otherwise.
I honestly hope America will become a socialist country, because then they won't be able to afford to "police" the world
Already happened. Just take out the reserve currency part and its lights out as policeman.
Socialism is a wonderfully effective methodology for redistributing wealth to the the poor, government employees and the struggling middle class.
It works beautifully....until the wealth is gone.
The problem with Bernie Sanders is that he is an economic idiot. This does not, however, distinguish him from any of the other candidates.
The problem with Sanders is he will probably fall into the trap of thinking after 30 or 40 years socialism has legitimacy and implement ideas that may have worked 40 years ago but will never work now.
Unlike Clinton, Sanders may listen to wiser people that explain the current issues facing America and be able to alter course before undertaking a mistaken policy.
It may be a gamble but I would rather have someone of integrity than someone like Clinton as a Democratic nominee. The task would fall on the rest of America to clearly explain to Sanders the problems facing the USA in a non-retarded manner. Just saying socialism is bad would not work, you have to explain what parts are still feasible and what parts are not and what exactly it is that would prevent a particular socialist program from working.
Trump and Sanders are currently the most relevant to America. The problem is finding a way to combat their relative blind spots. A Carson VP I think may ground Trump with his decent human being qualities, someone like Ron Paul as VP would be needed to ground Sanders to how an out of control financial sector has distorted the economy and cleanup is needed before you can take stock of what amount of socialism is possible and what is not.
Who knows if either optimal outcomes are possible.
all redistribution is really
just distribution.
I hereby propose all future ZH articles that mention Sweden to be subject to the "Brazil Rule".
All those in favor, say Aye
Long ago I requested any article involving India include a shot of "gold shirt dude", but this has not happened.
What better way for the citizenry to own the means of production than a socialism whereby the same issue and trade their own banknotes? Dissolve the central monetary authority. Oops, that would be a free market.
I think China's education system makes America's look pretty crappy.
There is no such thing as "free exchange" in the real world. It's either managed markets or mis-managed markets. The reason a socialist can gain traction in the US today is because we have mis-managed the market by allowing the corporations to make their own rules. Also if you are bemaoning maternity leave and vacation, you're part of the problem. It's called the race to the bottom, and people like this guy won't be happy until American workers are on par with those in Ethiopia.
Want to bring on the long over due reset? I know I'm tired of waiting, how about you? Just vote for Bernie, we'll have it in a matter of weeks, guaranteed.
Garbage In,Garbage Out.
Sanders... another crackpot false god that the millenials just might vote into the Oval Orifice.
You are aware of this guy Donald Trump right?
The option for misogynistic, redneck, racist gun loving nutjobs who think they would be a multimillionaire too if only if it wasnt for the government giving all their money to immigrants.
Talk about your crackpots.
One of Marx's most improtant tenets in order to achieve the perfect socialist state was to nationalize the banks, so the US already qualified as a socialist country in that regard in 2007. What's missing are free basic health, education and the dole. But what alternative is there? If there are no jobs - which there aren't and won't be - then what do you do with all of the useless extra people who will never work. All major western governments started adjusting employment figures in the 70s when it became apparent that birth rates were too high but they didn't have the balls to address the issue of birth control in the public forum. Reap what you sow. It doesn't really matter a fuck who gets in at this point. Capitalism can't work with a massively oversized (in more ways than one) population.
The financial system (and therefore the economy) was not merely brought to the brink of destruction - it did fail during the crisis. The patient went into profoundly massive cardiac arrest with a flatlined pulse, inbility to breath on his own, and just about to be pronounced dead.
There was one last attempt with the pads and drugs injected to the max - drugs beyond any level previously used because such a concentration would, in itself be almost lethal. These desperate measures to bring him back from the dead were TARP. But they only kept him minimally alive and it was necessary to keep him on life support with breathing assistance (QE, OPERATION TWIST, ZIRP). But his heart had been severely damaged by continuing with his damaging lifestyle decisions despite having repeatedly been told the medical ramifications. ( CONTINUING TOO LOW INTEREST RATES ).
Now the patient has suffered irreversible consequences and must remain on life support ( ZIRP ) until the extent of his very limited recovery can be determined. His life will never be the same. His choices in life caused irreparable damage to the vital organs. He will now be closer to merely existing than living - basically the equivalent of a massive heart attack along with a simultaneous severe stroke with its lifelong consequences.
There is no returning to life as it was for this patient...............
Free market capitalism is this patient. It always made poor lifestyle choices living for the present and abusing the body regardless of the knowledge that the long term effects cannot be ignored. It always continued to smoke (THE FED AND ITS POLICIES) even after the dangers of cigarette smoking became common knowledge. Such things as the Investment Houses going public, the end of Glass Steagall, and deregulation of derivatives were the equvalent of a new cocaine habit supplementing the existing vices. The measures taken after 2007 were just the addition of a new heroine addiction on top of everything else to further stress and drain the patient to the exhaustion and shutdown point.
This patient's body cannot be resurrected. It actually did die a natural death and should have been left that way. Perhaps it was Wall Street and the banksters who extended its lifespan to delay paying off the life insurance policy while they cut out of town. Who knows?
But one thing is for sure. Those to be in charge now should not be TPTB. Any re-animation of this almost lifeless corpse requires a reputable doctor frankenstein with honor/integrity or someone many levels above the sorta-cool guy in the Re-Animator science fiction movie series. Someone totally the opposite of what has come before.
Dudes >>>>>> That leaves Bernie Sanders. (I guess, perhaps, maybe, why not?, can't-be-any-worse, we've been getting f*cked up the ass by the .01-1% anyway, wouldn't hurt, etc). The other option is not to vote, but I got this nagging issue with that.
Good rant NIBW but get over the issue of not votng. Unless you feel really strongly about a candidate, casting a vote is a vote against democracy and just procreates the PTB.
Where was free market capitalism being tried at?
Crony capitalism is state capitalism and IS closer to socialism than free market capitalism.
Repost;
- Yeah, Corporate Socialism is called Capitalism in the USA
- Yeah, we know about Corporate Bailouts and Bail-Ins, they care called Corporate Socialism
- Yeah, we know about Lobbying and corporations writing major legislation in the US Congress, it is called Corporate Socialism
- Yeah, we know about the Wealth Gap in the USA Growing Larger, and the Income Gaps being expanded as wages are at 1979 levels at constant dollars
- Yeah, we know Payday Loans, charges and fees paid by the poor class, and debt growth of the Middle Class destroys the US National Security Profile
- 1979 Chrysler bailout, Iacocca approached the United States Congress in 1979, Chrysler was required to reduce costs
- 2009 Chrysler bankruptcy, Because of the Chrysler bankruptcy, Iacocca may lose part of his pension from a supplemental executive retirement plan
- 2008 BMW Auto Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 Caterpillar Inc Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 Chrysler Financial Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 Ford Auto Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 General Electric Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 Genworth Financial Insurance, CPFF
- 2009 GM bankruptcy & Bailout
- 2008 Harley Davidson Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 Hartford Financial Insurance, CPFF
- 2008 McDonalds Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 METLIFE Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 PACCAR Bailout, CPFF
- 2008 Verizon Bailout, CPFF
- 2009 Toyota Bailout, CPFF
- 2009 Wall Street Bailout, Unlimited FED Loans, $800 Billion TARP, $4.4 Trillion QE, And 6 Years of LIRP/ZIRP
Yeah man. Bail-Ins from Bank Holding Companies that own 40% of our Deposits SOUNDS GREAT!!!
I guess you never went to business school and learned about Anti-Trust Legislation, Teddy Roosevelt, Sherman Anti-Trust, Federal Trade Commission??
Socialism is more than an economic theory or the redistribution of wealth as the author puts it. It is also a socia-cultural systems with certain morals such as equality and social justice, whether one agrees with these values or not. It is a doctrine. It has morals based on humanitarianism and even christianity. It was a response to the oppression of the past by feudalism, religion and the new industrial/capitalist elite. For socialism to work though, everybody must 'get with the programme'. And there lie the roots of oppression. Capitalism of course is just about money, there are no morals. Rogue capitalism is about filling your pockets at the expense of others. Socialists in the US mistake the economic basis of European countries. It is capitalist, make no mistake. Except that the 'superstructure' of society is based on socio-democratic principles.
Humans walk a tight balance between what is in their own selfish interest and what is in the interest of human social systems. It is a thin line.
Problem with Bernie Sanders? Jewish Socialist.
Wait stop the presses, the Mises Institute does not like Sanders ?
Thats like asking the NRA about gun control, gee they don`t like it ? What a huge %&% surprise there
While we are at it lets ask Bart Simpson what he thinks about homework.
This has about as much validity as dog shit in a Paris park.
Sweden is great....as long as you forget about COMPLETELY FARKED UP immigration policy. Sweden takes in everyone. Then the immigrants (certain types, not the educated, working, law-abiding ones from European countries) have more rights than indigenous Swedes. I know this from personal experience.
http://swedishsurveyor.com/2015/06/27/somali-brutally-raped-12-year-old-...
Old economists come from a world where there was a scarcity of products, now there is a scarcity of demand.
Everyone should get hold of a copy of “The Affluent Society” to realise efficiency and growth are no longer that important.
We have armies of marketing and advertising people to try and get consumers to buy the products that no one really needs or wants in the first place.
In a world of finite resources, wouldn’t it be better to spend more on schools, hospitals, the disabled, elderly and the poor rather than getting people to buy things they didn’t want in the first place.
Of course the private sector has a role to play, but its endless supply of products that no one actually wants, without marketing and advertising, does have its limits.
Banning advertising and marketing will be a big step in the right direction, helping to conserve the world’s finite resources.
Supply will meet demand, rather than demand having to be manufactured to meet chronic oversupply.
Guided capitalism with some key unprofitable areas run by government and paid for through taxes is sensible not socialism, if your against this principle then you wont mind getting rid of your clearly oversized military or better yet START FUNDING EDUCATION, HEALTHCARE AND INFRA STRUCTURE TO THE SAME AMOUNT.
"Yachts for the homeless" you fucking imbecile, it probably would have been better than giving billions of dollars in bail outs to banks and no longer feasible companies.
In the US we had a 2nd Industrial Revolution in the Time that you identify as a great capitalist or free market era.
I assume that Sweden industrialized and added fishing/trading fleets.
Does your article address this common phenomena of Industrial Revolution which appeared all over the west?
I'm willing to agree that the pendulum from monarchy/government control swings back and forth between welfare type reforms. And today corporations are as big as governments and whole countries with even more power. How do we control corporations under a Mises or Austrian perspective. Clearly money and corporate power can avoid the punishments and disincentives of committing fraud, cheating investors in financial reports and financial ratings, and for extracting wealth from the labor of sovereign countries while acting to suppress wages and benefits of workers for their own benefit and wealth.
"Licensing czars, an oppressive guild system, and a litany of other onerous regulations on free exchange were dramatically reduced or eliminated. In the century from 1850–1950, the population doubled and real Swedish incomes multiplied nearly tenfold. Despite the almost non-existence of a welfare state or any major state control of economic sectors, by 1950 Sweden was the fourth richest nation in the world. "