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Guest Post: Should Everyone Vote?
Submitted by Ash Navabi via Mises Canada,
It’s election time in Canada, and as usual ad campaigns on TV, radio, print, and even Facebook are urging “everyone” to vote. But is that such a good thing?
To ask it another way: Is it really a good thing to tell people who are ignorant of law (so they don’t know which proposed policies are illegal), and/or ignorant of economics (so they don’t know what the actual outcomes of proposed policies will be), and/or ignorant of political science (so they don’t know which proposed policies are politically feasible with the actual people and institutions we already have)?
If politics is serious business, shouldn’t people have more than causal understanding law, economics, and political science before voting? How are people supposed to judge platforms otherwise–by what “feels right”?
Imagine you’re on a panel to choose a team of rocket scientists to send a spaceship to Mars. But let’s say you’re ignorant of the general laws of physics, the specific laws of rocket science, and the knowledge of project management knowledge of how different teams of engineers are supposed to work together.
How would you judge which engineers to hire?
By what the engineers merely say they’ll do? That doesn’t work, since you have absolutely no framework for what is and isn’t physically possible. They might be suggesting breaking the laws of physics but you’d have no idea.
By what the engineers have done in the past isn’t a good metric either. Sure they may have sent a rocket to space before, but what if they did it really economically and wasted a lot fuel and other resources? They may have also had a rocket blow up mid flight–but what if they didn’t even expect the rocket to ignite and so it was a great feat of engineering that it went up at all?
What’s even worse is if people not only are ignorant of the required knowledge to judge candidates, but have psychological biases that make it even harder for them to distinguish good from bad. If people had a false understanding of physics–for example, that helium balloons prove the law of gravity wrong–they’re not only more likely to believe an engineer who panders to their false understanding, but also to brush off legitimate scientists as kooks or crooks.
I’m not saying that voting should only be done by experts, or that no one without a PhD shouldn’t vote.
What I am trying to say is that politics is a complex problem and to understand it requires several proficiencies. Most people do not have these proficiencies–through no fault of their own, since there’s more to life than politics and economics. Asking people to contribute to solving a problem when they lack the basic tools of understanding the problem is unlikely to lead to a good outcome.
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Yes they should. It should be mandatory!
That will give the most legitimacy to the government.
Maybe some of that ink on your hands too? To go along with those dopey 'I voted" stickers.
pods
Votes don't count.
Bribery counts.
The idea of voting for someone to be responsible for someone else's inalienable rights is a hilarious scam. On top of that, forcing someone to vote is ridiculous in a free society.
We should reserve our rights to represent ourselves. It should be inalienable responsibility for our inalienable rights. Lobbists would need to face us in person instead of a flake politician.
It’s just a good thing that California looks to automatically register voters when driver’s licenses are issued or renewed.
That will be especially good for the illegal’s and those who most actively work to turn the country into a slave colony and collectivist hell (Democrats).
http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-senate-voter-registration-drivers-licenses-20150910-story.html
Know what's gonna happen eventually and not too soon?
All those fucking illegals will not vote Democratic at some point. They'll be voting for their very own kind and the Dems will be thrown off their very own gravy train*.
*Yeah yeah yeah, I know all bout the Dems and Repubs, and Repubs by and large don't matter anymore out here in LaLa Land & Environs.
Low IQ/information voters tend to vote democrat.
The real question is should anyone vote for anyone?
Heinlein wrote about an interesting system in "Starship Troopers" (the book, not the horrid movie). Right to vote only given to those who have volunteered to serve (military, a couple years civil service, whatever). Idea is that selection for those who place virtue in civic duty is better for society than selecting for intelligence, wealth, landholding, etc.
I keep saying it, voting and democracy are not about who is elected, but about sharing responsibility for WHOEVER is elected. That means that if the guy who is elected is not satisfying expectations, it is the voters responsibility to remove him before more damage is done. A democracy would have an easy legal mechanism for that to happen (as opposed to a revolution). Something like a % of popular signature needed to automatically impeach any political figure. As long as such mechanism does not exist a democracy is de facto an Oligarchy, because there is no way for voters to act on shared responsibility without grave danger to their lives.
I'll be the first to say it... Women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
1) They can't be drafted, so they can't be forced by the majority to sacrifice their lives. No life staked on the outcome of a vote, no vote.
2) Taxation doesn't hurt women like it hurts males. Men are judged on their performance, their assets, their wealth. The wealth and income of a man is directly correlated to how attractive the women he can snag are. Taxing women doesn't hurt their ability to live a happy life like it does for men. Because of this, women vote in new taxes far far far easier than men do, even though they collectively pay less, and it hurts them less to sacrifice.
Women shouldn't be allowed to vote. There, I said it, flame away.
"Doesn't the Kim family in NK get like 99.99% of the vote in NK? Mandatory voting, and everyone votes for the master, so they don't get whipped."
I posted this in a previous thread. Its more appropriate here. Must have been future me talking to my self.....
Yup, im up here in Ontario - west of Toronto...its 'voting' day today
.
Today is the day we pretend we have a choice.
This is all based on a fundamental misunderstanding of democracy. Democrasy is about the majority getting what they want at any cost. Most of the time that means politicians promise people stuff and we vote for the guy who give the most people we care about the most stuff, no matter who has to pay for it. Who cares if we already spent all the tax money we'll ever pay in our lives, our children can pay so we'll spend their money, If democracy is based on voiting yourself stuff then clearly you want as many people who your giving stuff as possible voting. All voters need to decide is which people I care about are getting the most stuff from this politician. Anyone can understand that so everyone should vote.
Personally, I think Senator Palpatine will do a great job as Galactic Emperor.
Why do you think the CIA/MIC/HARVARD boys have been dumbing down the populace since the coup of 1963? The best safeguard for democracy is an educated electorate.
I heard Bernanke was on Stephen Colbert. Haven't seen it yet, but heard he said a trillion dollars isn't a lot any more. Wonder if Colbert said anything about that. Or maybe he's just another knee jerk liberal moron.
"Right to vote only given to those who have volunteered to serve (military, a couple years civil service, whatever). Idea is that selection for those who place virtue in civic duty is better for society than selecting for intelligence, wealth, landholding, etc."
Absolutely not. Parasites who live off of -- or are in any way subsidized by -- other people's taxes, should not be allowed to vote.
The real question is should anyone vote?
There fixed it for ya. I mean, who actually thinks that votes have ever really counted? You really think the kings/.01%'s/elites/lords and those they employ are going to let anyone change anything they dont want changed?
I dont think ill ever vote. Complete waste of MY time, and time is something they can't steal from you unless you let them.
Is anyone worth voting for??
"Low IQ/information voters tend to vote democrat"
Then how do you explain the quantifiably dumbest states (the American south) voting overwhelmingly and reliably Republican?
Truxton - no mind...anyone voting for either wing of THE ONE PARTY by that very definition has a low IQ
That is absolute horseshit.
I will take a government of average citizens over a government of evil politicians, bought and paid for, on any selection day for any office.
Demand sortition and a one-year term for all political offices.
Demand that we punish both sides for bribery, severely!
Or, just vote for another actor or Bush or Clinton or multi-term congressman, yet again.
Too true, Hedgless. It points more to a need to have an informed and educated populace then a vote reform. Of course, no politician would ever want an informed and educated populace.
No. Just white Anglo-Saxon English speaking Tea Party member, Libertarian, gun owning, racist, misogynistic, Bible toting males.
Close, but what often ties those groups together, and can actually be consistently traced through the over two thousand years of this debate through both classical antiquity and the enlightenment is net-tax-paying-CITIZENS, and they should be required to vote, along with the US seriously rethinking how it defines CITIZEN, since no one alive today was resident in the United States before it became an independent nation.
Nyet, because the female faction of conservativism is misogynistic too with their hatred of Femi-Nazis, abortion, and Atheists, or Agnostics. So, it's not just the white males that thump a Bible.
My question would be 'why does anybody vote?' given how much difference it makes.
Voting is agreeing to be enslaved by those you vote for who just do the bidding of the banking class.
If the turnout was, say 5%, nobody could claim a mandage to govern - at that point things might change
"Don't vote, it only encourages them"
Like feeding monkeys at the Zoo!
"Voting is not necessarily the best way for citizens to exercise their civic duty. Some citizens need to stay away from the polls to protect the democratic process from their uninformed, irrational, or immoral votes." - JASON BRENNAN
In the US voting is a useless exercise as it is 2 party, billionaire bought farce with candidates being chosen based on how far they will bend over to monied interests. US is not a democracy in any shape or form. Has not been since JFK and RFK were assasinated for standing for the people.
Other parts of the world? Other countries do not have the Supreme Court ruling that money can buy power. And only money can buy power. So yeah in the US why vote?
it starts with ink on hands.. it ends with ink on forearms
Should anyone vote?
As in, does it matter at this point?
Quick, name the three biggest differences between the Labour and Conservative parties in the UK.
We're just about there, here.
Go to your City/Town Clerk's office and revoke your voter registration. The fewer the number of people that vote and the fewer registered to vote will take away the legitimacy of the elected. Do it today!
I'm fine with returning to "landowners". Even "male landowners". Barring that, an intelligence test to prove that you have a stake in the matter before being allowed to vote.
Universal suffrage undermines the definition of a republic, destroys the family unit, and is responsible for the psychotic, untenable welfare programs that have done so much damage to our economy and ability to spend within our means.
Any legitimate intellegence test of voters would leave exactly zero of them in the pool.
Only fools voluntarily enslave themselves.
White familiess with one or more children get 1 vote.
shouldn't they be able to spell "familiess" (sic)
We could ask that the article's author also brush up on his spelling and grammar.
He describes people with a 'causal' knowledge, along with a number of other errors.
It's not that I don't agree with him; I put the real failure of the US with the passage of the 19th amendment.
It's not that women are stupid or anything, but far too many in Canada are voting for the Dauphin (Trudeau fils) not because of his programs (which are full retard socialism - run a huge deficit, build more huge government ratchets - er, programs, and in general, meddle with everything), but because "he's so cute!".
Luckily for my American friends, no one will ever vote for Hitlery for THAT reason.
Since so many people don't own land anymore, how about the criteria be the voter has to be a Net Taxpayer? IF you are on the government tit, you don't vote. Also government employees relinquish their right to vote during their employment period.
I've advocated something along those lines in the past, but what happens when you retire? Do you have to forgo the CPP you paid into to vote?
And I agree in general with your prohibition on gov't employees, but with the caveat that you can't vote for the level of gov't that EMPLOYS YOU. Work for the feds? Can't vote for Pres/House/Senate, but you can vote for Governor, Mayor, etc. Work for Province/State? Vote for Pres, etc. , but not in Provincial elections. etc.
Here in Morontario, the last three provincial elections have been swayed, in part, by massive union advertising campaigns against the Conservatives. The unions? Elementary school teachers, high school teachers, OPSEU (Ontario Public Servants Union), etc. They spend for the hand that feeds them, and never let them forget it when they get to the bargaining table. Stopping those thugs from manipulating elections would be a good first step.
This has always been my argument. You shouldn'y be able to vote yourself a raise, regardless of working for the government or not working (welfare).
If you want some new form of democracy, it requires more than voting for a represantative. To be democratic as wide number of people need to included in every bill voting. With internet there could be a internet democracy.
Anyone who can pass a test (easy difficulty, online or offline) about basics of running a country, maybe even IQ test included, should be able to post bills and gather support. Everyone who does not pass the test or doesn't want to should be able to choose his representative (or exclude his or her vote indefinetly) from the list of those who passed it at any date. With a few tens of thousands politicaly active people, democracy would be within reach.
Democracy is a much bandied about word, but its meaning is a bit slippery.
In a system of majority votes it just means the tyranny of the many over the few.
"Democracy" is bandied about these days, but it does not mean the tyranny of the many, it means the Rule by many. It can be done either for the common good or baser self interest. But what is bandied about even more ridiculously is the word "Republic" the definitionZZZ of the source of the modern word actually include both oligarchy (in the context of Plato) or "enlightened" Democracy (in the context of Aristotle). As to why so few (outside of the elite) understand this these days... ask yourself what social class did the thought leaders of the Enlightenment belonged to, and then thank a teacher (with a double tap), or if you just want a sad laugh- read Leo Strauss's Persecution & the Art of Writing.
Funny how when people get into government it's almost always the baser self-interest bit that shows up.
Funny, and almost true, but if you look at the West these days, we have people crying for us to let in more Syrian terrorists without so much as a health check, let alone their ideology.
This isn't even "base self-interest"; it's crazy suicidal wishes. Guess they're all off their collective Prozac.
The US fucks up Syria & most of the rest of ME and most of the refugees end up i Europe.
Accidental?? I doubt it.
The US just seems to try to destabilize any place that it doesn't have control over.
Europe, IMHO, is seen as a threat by US, as is just about everywhere other than Israel.
Like a kid in the playground who'll try to fuck up the game if he doesn't like how it's going.
This kind of 'test' would fail immediately - it would be corrupted. The reason is that you need a way to decide who gets to write the test. Without a reliable way to control who writes the test, you have nothing.
"Should Everyone Vote?"
Should read...
Obama encourages new refugees to vote an existing illegals to vote for DNC candidates.
Donald Trump baby!
Why the fuck would someone from Mises.org write an article about who should be qualified to vote? Talk about the mootness of asking the wrong questions.
Did they get captured by the statists at Cato too?
China kinda has a democracy where only 10% of the population (party members) get to vote.
Here in the US, won't the Diebold machine vote for you?
Sheeple don't choose when voting, they only create an illusion of having influence. Maybe Canadians get legal weed if they vote Trudeau which I doubt. But that as well is just cosmetics.
But its a collective illusion that others also share. They get what thay deserve.
Early and often.
I thought the whole point of elections is to have people propose changes to existing laws. By definition, these proposed changes are not currently legal.
Oh, please. Tell me YOU"RE not allowed to vote.
You could propose a bill "Let's kill all the negros!" but since it runs afoul of at least half a dozen other laws, it would be illegal even if passed.
Spoil the ballot. The three opposition parties are all big(ger) government, big(ger) spenders. Then you've got Harper - is he still in Syria after the US pulled out? He's like the kid still playing hide and go seek when all of the other kids quit hours ago to go home for dinner. Funny how he's stopped talking about ISIS since every soccer mom in Canada called his bluff on that bogeyman.
Or just stay home and watch the Jays.
Harper attended a rally with the Ford brothers yesterday, outrageous!.. Here's a PM , willing to jail people for marijuana possession, holding a rally with a bunch of coked up slobs.
@ oddjob I fixed it for you......."holding a rally with a bunch of coked up, drunken, gangsta coneected slobs." And thing is Harper is such a good Christian anti-choice, anti drug treatment racist idiot. He must be very very afraid. Not as if the press has not been totally full on every site with Canadians commenting on how useless and facist he is. Stevie has got to go is everywhere.
According to Lenin, it does not matter who the votes are cast for, only who counts the vote.
Today, it does not matter who the votes are cast for, or who counts the vote, only who has the power to announce the winner... and in our case that is the MSM. Time and effort are saved and there is never any chance that a real candidate will be elected.
Stalin: "Its not he who votes who counts, but he who counts the votes."
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
Calling Canadians sheep is being extremely generous BTW...
But ask yourself why someone from HARROW would say that about the "average voter"...
(the number of pig fuckers there is at least equal to Eaton)
Eton
Serves me right for living on Eaton Square...
Original work by the NukePro
http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/2015/10/germanys-electric-rate-has-...
The pro-nuclear crowd, pulling out all the stops to save their dying industry, states that Germany is doing horribly under their "mistake" to invest in solar and shut down nuclear. What is reality.
Reality is that Germany's cost for electricity has dropped in half since Fukushima.
This first chart doesn't tell the whole story. Each Euro buys 1.15 USD. So if you take the average call it 39 Euro per MWH, and multiply by 1.15, you get 44.85 USD per MWH, or converting to kWH 4.48 cents per kWH.
BUT! and don't lose the importance of this, Look at the chart below, Since Fukushima the Euro has lost about 30% of its "value". IN 2011 the wholesale rate was 65 Eur/MWH and Eur/USD was 1.45, calculating to a cost of 9.42 cents per kWH.
Simply put....since Germany has decided to phase out nuclear power, their electric rate has dropped by half.
Don't forget about all that awful bird-killing wind turbines they've got.
Ain't no coal plant or nuke plant ever killed any birds! /s
What about all the canaries?
Well - the MSM, the internet, the bloggers, TV, radio and everyone else should just agree to set aside ONE DAY to do nothing but list the candidate's stances on a range of issues. No commentary, just facts laid out so there is no excuse not to familiarize one's self with them. Hell, didn't Paulson get $700 billion using just three pages?
It could also - in just one sentence - add something like a Presidential term is 4 years, a Senate term 6 years, and a House of Representatives term 2 years. You know, just some basic remedial stuff.
Otherwise, it CAN readily be said that much of the general public is too ill-informed or stupid to vote in their best interest and even lack a primitive understanding of the candidate's position on issues or even how Congress works. After this INFORMATION DAY things can go back to the normal coverage.
i only vote for the sticker..........................because i cant vote with a well armed militia
I vote for whomever promises the most free shit paid for by people who actually pay taxes.
I think the winner should now be chosen by an analysis of the twitter feed on election day, whoever gets the most mentions wins. Welcome, President Kardashian.
This is a good argument for the government not to be involved in economics. No Fed, no pre-crime regulations that pander to false beliefs about fairness but really just prevent competition, no income tax. Before socialists chime in on how unfair that is, just remember that when you put any monopoly in charge of such mechanisms, that monopoly will inveitably be taken over by sociopaths who figure out how to work the system and co-opt it over time. You can complain that a true free market (which we don't have) can be gamed in some ways as well, but at least it's distributed and doesn't concentrate power into a single point of failure.
If you are looking for socialist to chime in, you'd probably need to head on over to http://www.alternet.org. Here is an article with a thread that is guaranteed to elicit socialist responses.
http://www.alternet.org/economy/robert-reich-three-reasons-republican-de...
as I understand it, before the so called "womens sufferage", anyone that owned property could vote, man or woman. Womens sufferage was a canard to bring us to the point we are today.
Once they saw how easily women could be emotionally manipulated, with the whole 'freedom torch' campaign to get women to start smoking, they couldn't get those 'suffragettes' the vote fast enough! Thank Freud and his evil cousin, Edward Bernays.
These marginal voters will be even more influenced by dumb TV ads, so the more it will benefit the candidates who can raise the most money.
Vote by not voting...nothing will change while people keep waiting for the next election. Note, I am not advocating revolution. Revolutions are wars and wars always make everything worse. Simply say no to debt and servitude instead and watch the extant system implode.
The people have and deserve whatever they're willing to tolerate. I never thought I'd see the day America lined up at airports to be frisked and have their luggage rifled and so on...stop flying and that would end in a hurry.
The people who founded this country risked their lives and their property. Today, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone willing to quit their job or forego a vacation on the basis of principle. It's sad but it will not end by itself. If people say no to oppression by the millions, though, it would be all over tomorrow.
Save some money and buy back your freedom. There's more to life than shopping...
Yes yes yes. There is no intelligent reason to encourage the uninformed to vote.
And seriously things have actually been fucked up since we gave women the right to vote.
Speaking for Canada, Pierre Trudeau was one of the best Prime Ministers we ever had. His son Justin however can paddle a Canoe pretty good but as far as a politician goes, on a recent campaign ad, he stated we need to stand up to Syria, a country that uses poison gas on their own people.
Please, get back to your canoe and leave politics for people with skills and not a famous father.
pierre trudeau is lionized because he gave the bank of canada to the zionazis.
@besnook That is what the COMER lawsuit is all about. Gets very little publicity but is inching forward....and yes Mr. Trudeau made that fatal error. Shame on him.
canada .gov has no case but they will find an illegal way to keep the status quo. yea, hardly anyone knows they won the first round. canada .gov and the zionazis are kinda freaking out.
@ besnook The saving factor is that the law is on COMER side all the way. AND the Supreme Court is not bought and sold here. This will proceed I think. They were in court again a week or so back. Getting absolutely no press to speak of.
YES gov. is very afraid to kick the banker buds out....to pull an Iceland. I live in hope. (and not Hope BC)
William Krehm is quite the interesting guy, but he's a bit old and frail.
http://www.thestar.com/news/2008/05/17/toronto_revolutionary_93_girds_fo...
Rocco Galati seems like a good guy, but he's a lawyer - if he pushes too hard he'll likely to be disbarred. A tough line to walk, I would think.
And a few other mistakes like the national energy program and social policy blunders that are coming back to bite us now. And debt. lot's of debt.
I've been following COMER too, eh!
the dumbest voter is the best voter or, in the words of the second to worst president in the usa, the shrub,(obambam having taken the top spot) after losing his first election, "i will never be outdumbed again."
Democracy: The collective wisdom of individual ignorance...H.L. Mencken
"If politics is serious business, shouldn’t people have more than causal understanding law, economics, and political science before voting?"
What a load of Canadian back bacon, eh?
This totally pre-supposes that the, ahem, elite, actually know wtf they're doing or that it might be of some benefit to the country. Let's look at the choices:
Prime Minister Harper, conservative, has the most to lose obvoiusly. More azz kizzing of US/Israel, boring but successful economic policy for the most part. No deficit. Supports TPP.
School teacher Trudeau, liberal, riding his father's coattails and annointed leader as his father was in the 70's, for a party with a lot of debt he's spending large on tv ads. Wants to 'spend' and create a 10B CAD deficit. Supports TPP.
Mulcair, NDP (socialist, sorta) dual citizen France/Canada, took over the leadership after their popular leader succumbed to illness and subsequently won the quebec vote in the last federal election. Provincially the NDP recently swept to power in Alberta where the concervative party had held power for at least 45 years. No deficit. Does NOT suport TPP.
What channel is the hockey game on?
Tom Mulcair is also the only major party leader who actually came very close to telling the truth about his policies if elected. One very intelligent man and very good speaker. Guess my intent is showing.
Agreed, like it makes a difference. We're still gonna get 5 minutes of hope and 4 years of no-change.
I think you are likely to find a baseball game.
Voting only matters when one does it from the roof.
Voting in this world now is just a way to make the gullible sheeple think they have some power and importance when they don't. I voted I think once when I turned 18 and that was it since I realized early on it was a waste of time. I'm now in my late 30s.
Oh and it seems like we have an election every damn year in this country. It's annoying and such a waste of money which is probably the main reason why it gets done so often. I'll be glad when it is over so I won't have to see the stupid campaign commercials on TV. Saw a bunch watching football yesterday and Stephen Harper should fire whoever did his makeup. He looked like a tranny.
Yes. Every knowledgable gentleman should be required to vote. And those enlightened voters also should be required to show up at the polling station with a loaded firearm too.
Otherwise voting means nothing. Voting is not like putting out the trash, just some commonplace civil duty...
Before there were reliable firearms, voters carried swords, cudgels and Bowie knives to the polling stations. When the Magna Charta was signed, the signers were armed. When the Declaration of Independence was signed, those signers too were armed. There were many more than one sword fight in Washington D.C. between legislators. And some were shot too, rightly so! Where did we as a nation go wrong?
Nowadays, voters and legislators arrive with their cell phones, a joint and some toot for the road... Those people shouldn't be driving, let alone voting. These people should be taken out and shot!
With what's been happening lately in the U.S., the sickening devaluation and manipulation of the currency, phony interest rates, and, dope being imported and sold by the government, it's high time to vote "NO MORE!"
There's nothing wrong with the U.S. There is something wrong with Washington D.C. however.
#1
Trans Pacific Partnership was signed by the Government of CANADA, but the lowlife politicians signed the contract without giving Canadians any details. The contract was signed in-camera, is top-secret, and most likely criminal in scope. No political party in CANADA was forthcoming with knowledge, or details/specifications. No political party said anything other than 'this deal will be good for Canadian markets, and business.
#2
Postmedia News Corp. instructed all their daily newspapers across CANADA to endorse the Conservative Party of CANADA for this election, and all 43 daily newspapers fell in-line with the Chief Executive Officer Mr. Paul Godfrey with regard to his wishes directed to their Editorial Boards for each newspaper of the 43 across CANADA. Paul Godfrey is a known Progressive Conservative supporter, but none of the editorials each newspaper ran mentioned that fact. Moreover, no editorials mentioned the Hedge Funds that are based in the United States of America own 54 per cent of controlling interests in Postmedia News Corp. As it turns out, Postmedia is seriously in debt to these Hedge Funds, and they have market positions on the oil industry in CANADA's Athabasca Oil Sands, and directed Godfrey to order Canadian newspapers to endorse Steven Harper & the Conservative Party of CANADA.
#3
Canadian voters cannot vote with informed consent if the Government of CANADA does not provide them with information so that they may obtain some semblance of being an informed voter. Ergo, one need not be an expert to make an informed decision to 'Spoil a Ballot', or 'Refuse a Ballot', as they are legitimate reactions to a voting process that is corrupt, lacks information that would enable the voter to make an informed decision, and indicates to the Government of the day that you will not participate in bait & switch games, shell games, or charades, when it comes to the so-called _democratic process_.
Both the Liberals (who support TPP no matter how much they pretend to be sitting on the fence) and NDP both turned down an offer to be briefed on TPP few days ago.
For the record NDP says NO to the TPP. They have from day one. Try and keep up.
I, for one, cannot understand why the Liberals & NDP would decline the offer to be briefed by the Government of CANADA, frankly. And I only heard Mulcair say the NDP would object to the TPP two days ago. Mulcair waited until the NDP War Room gave him permission to reject the TPP outright after-the-fact. Had Mulcair, and the NDP , taken the Gubberment up on their offer to brief, we would have had more info to go on.
And I do try to keep up, but I'm just an old man eating stewed tomatoes out of a tin.
Mulcair said no to TPP way back. way back. AND IMHO both Libs and NDP turned downed this filtered briefing, watered down review a few days back? Libs decline to make a stand and NDP already knows it is NAFTA on steroids (which is why they oppose the draining of democratic rights in favour of corporate profiteering.)
Liberals support. NDP does not and one critical reason why this "elephant in the room" deal was not made public, as promised by the Cons, prior to election day. Cons were too busy talking about niqaubs? (sp.)?? and Trudeau resume. Libs and Cons did not want this issue out there for anyone with a brain to consider. Both parties support.
Try saurkraut,,,way better for the system. Let's your natural immune system maintain peak health.
saurkraut eh, I'll try it, but it better not taste like it sounds.
Thanks for the tip.
;|
@ Master of All. NDP opposed TPP as far back as I can reference, in August. Other guys did not want the subject brought up. Cons promised the details would be released prior to election day and then reneged on that.
Cons and Libs did not want to deal with this issue out there. Canadians already know the impacts of NAFTA. Lumber tribunals etc. But TPP is so multinational corporate controlled that is over rides sovereign legislation ( or results in huge tax payer funded fines for "loss of profit"} Cons and Libs support it. Cons are lying about the benefits to the average person. Libs are saying "wait and see" but do give support in principle.
NDP says no.
I could be channelling the Euro protest to a similar proposal deal, however. Without having any public consultation or transperency this TPP was written and negotiated by corporations who wish free rein and the ability to put profits first no matter what.
In my paranoia, as I have not seen the nuts and bolts of this, I see Canada being sued for protecting rivers, lakes, oceans, fisheries etc. Quite possible that Shell could sue for loss of profit if Canada protects and refuses pipelines running through the Rockies or honours Native peoples rights to determine that pollution is unacceptable. Or that the Arctic is not for rape and pillage. TPP is a disaster for Canadian people in every way.
No wonder it was kept secret. What on earth are we leaving our children?
One would figure that the NDP would have to say no on TPP given the position on labour over their lifetime. I did hope that Mulcair would do better this electoral round. The MSM & polling companies push, and telegraph the electoral outcome quite a bit too much IMHO. I noticed CTV downgrading the NDP early on in the campaign. I listen to CFRA radio am & CBC radio fm, plus I watch Global TV & CBC, CTV coverage. TVO as well, but all are individually biased so I wind up reading alternative Canadian politics blogs and webpages. One thing for sure,
Harper should have gone sooner. cheers,eh!
stand up and dont vote....you legitimize the poltical system when there are no leaders in Canada..Harper spends his time sucking Obamas dick, Trudeau knows nothing but camp fire songs, and Mulcair will destroy the economy....who would you vote for? Dont vote and the record low turnout will not given anyone a mandate to govern......
NDP, if you read their party policy platform....will likely NOT wreck the economy. Liberals want to spend and spend (so their buddies in construction can skim)....Harper has already destroyed the budget for 10 years.
If only intelligent people were allowed to vote, dumbasses couldn't hold office
No vote who those who live off the government. Be it civil service, welfare, you name it, no vote. You don't get to decide who much you cost me.
I decided to vote based on the liberal hair ad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpi-YYILzJU
these attack ads are limp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtcX4aC5keI
The problem I see is:
Group A. thinks everybody else in Group B. is an ignorant shit and shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Group B. thinks everybody else in Group A. is an ignorant shit and shouldn't be allowed to vote.
People do not think. They organize into groups by instinct and mimicry.
Most people do not think.
America will not survive the ignorance of voters.
I don't plan on voting again until after I'm dead.
It sounds like we need a new ministry of voter selection in Canada, maybe someone from mises Canada would like to take over the new ministry to begin separating the good voters from the bad.
" The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with a politician." - me
How are people supposed to judge platforms otherwise–by what “feels right”?
This is exactly what the idiot leftists want us to do. 'If it feels right, man, do it!'. No more right and wrong, no more common sense rules. Just FEEEEEL it.
Arzwholes.
Pollyanna, Peace & Prosperity
“The princes 'grant' them, but in reality it is the the force of circumstances that gives them.”
Labor creates wealth, at will, and the number of producers who understand what this planet is and is not willing to provide remains relatively stable. The State distributes wealth, and sooner or later, on excuse of every form of government, the consumers grant themselves the right to consume everything in their path, adopting increasingly fascist behavior along the way. The middle class grows and collapses accordingly.
Communists are like children who think their parents are stupid, because their playmates, who think they have an information advantage, tell them what they want to hear. The fascists taking children are like the moron in the sandbox who takes a toy, expecting everyone else to compete for it, because some other moron did the same, calling it a job. Consumers are not the peers of producers, and equality is not equity.
The justification that labor requires a long string of supervisors to vote on what is to be done and how to do it is nonsense. Labor doesn't waste its time voting on the next nonsensical law dreamed up by communist accountants and implemented by fascist authorities, with a stick, paper, metal, bond or bomb. From the perspective of labor, communist infrastructure is the problem and the solution; any moron can declare war.
The corporation – public, private and non-profit, a derivative of State, produces nothing, at cost. Its markets are whatever price that induces the middle class ponzi to buy high and sell low, subjecting itself to negative monetary leverage along the way, to fuel more of the same. You will not find labor following Warren Buffet into his own casino. “It denied the nation what made it a nation and the citizen what made him a citizen.”
In case you haven't noticed, Americans have overwhelmingly voted for communism, freedom with neither responsibility nor discipline, and its result of global poverty, for decades, and the consumers now assume that they have successfully hijacked the economy. Families have emigrated accordingly, leaving dwellings and office space vacant for hedgies to monopolize, increasing rent on fewer units to cover the exponentially growing cost of increasing excess capacity. The last you want to hold is a sunk cost identified by the planet as such.
The data tells you that all the computers manufactured and installed by the middle class is replacing the middle class, not labor, and the upper middle class, subject to shrinkage itself, continues to tell the others that all will end well, if they only get back on board the real estate ponzi. The planet wipes out the majority on a regular basis, with nothing more than a slight tilt, and even if a few communists do kill each other, they cannot move all that weight they trucked into the cities and across the ocean. The so-invested communists blow themselves up every time.
When the US Navy accepted Family Law, its days were numbered. It's not cycling out of the Middle East black hole it created and into the new one it is creating in Asia by accident, and Americans will not be shown how impotent they are again by accident either. Bet any way you like, but you may not want to open your mouth and prove yourself another fool, or not.
I married a pollyanna to teach my children patience and sympathy for communists, always on their way back to the DNA churn pool, for which I have none. I do not need a wife to teach my children how to make a bomb from readily available materials, to lift a rocket, and deliver a payload. If the international jet set wants to get into a bomb-building contest with labor and kill itself, it's certainly welcome to do so.
So, the communists have taken yet another child, on best medical practice excuse, for lack of other opportunity, and having failed to prove medical cause, put my wife on trial, convicting her of being Pollyanna. Meanwhile, I have trained many kids who have had many babies who have had many babies, beyond the communist system run by nazis, who mistakenly assumed that I am an island in their trap.
“So long as there should exist, by reason of law and custom, a shared condemnation, which, in the midst of civilization, artificially creates a hell on earth...”
Prosperity is a simple choice, not to break the peace. Only a communist makes it complicated. Labor doesn't need sick-care to transfer wealth from producers to consumers, a public education system to justify the process, or a police state to enforce it. Grace is not a science project for printing money, but putting the nation/state back together again will be.
The automatons who want government healthcare are the same automatons who think they are smart enough to decide who should and who should not have children. It's not just that they have earned no faith; they are machines, which is why they are capable of putting humans in gas chambers, which is essentially what healthcare is becoming. They advise and expect you to consent, to DNA suicide.
The Declaration of Independence was evolution. The US Constitution was bourgeoisie restoration, “ingenious in masking profitable fiction as necessity...grinding the nation to a halt.” It's just a quantum fuse folks, a stupid counterweight for the planet to see, until it buries itself. Move along.
War is a trade, and like every other trade, is about talent and the tools it builds. Don't show up to WWIII with a communist and a dc computer expecting a happy outcome. Encouraging others to bankrupt themselves and thereby take their stupid liabilities is not an economy; it's a den of thieves, of which there is no shortage.
The problem-solution of communism, and The Fed in particular, is that it cannot produce labor. All it can do is replicate itself, in poorer and poorer facsimiles, faster and faster, until it can't. The communists piss money, surprise.
"If politics is serious business".....
Then why do we pay them so little that only the dimmest sociopaths are attracted by the spoils of corruption?
Likewise we could pay police more. Cops would love it until they realized the increased level of required competence would put most of them out of a job.
Perhaps that is the plan?
No one should vote. End the state.
Voting?? make my day!
Voting only lends credibility to the farce.
Stop paying taxes, stop obeying a parasitic government if you are abused.
Voting is for dummies.
I take the George Carlin view on "voting," effectively confirmed by this 2014 Princeton study:
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_an...
Excerpts:
A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues.
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
...the preferences of economic elites (as measured by our proxy, the preferences of “affluent” citizens) have far more independent impact upon policy change than the preferences of average citizens do. To be sure, this does not mean that ordinary citizens always lose out; they fairly often get the policies they favor, but only because those policies happen also to be preferred by the economically-elite citizens who wield the actual influence.
Voting will never work in the US for as long as as they have a two party system.They need to have a real good look at Sweden and how they all work togerther in minority governments.
Unfortunately the only thing uniting the Liberals and NDP in Canada is the desire to topple Harper no ifs or ands or buts. I think this will be reflected by the electorate today as well. Unfortunately Liberals have refused to agree to coalition with NDP. (They want it and they want it all; just like the Cons). Liberals are just another Harper gov. in waiting. Likely will be no majority gov. elected today. That said I think coalition gov. is a benefit.
Claustwitz got it exactly backwards. War is not politics by other means. Politics is war by other means.
Universal suffrage is moral relativism on steroids. Everyone is not equal in ability, wisdom, and knowledge. Pulling the lever for red/blue for a pack of pimps isn't a 21st century ideal.
American voter: woman with bloodied lips, swollen purple around eye hugs her man with gaze of hope and despair,over and over, because he promises that "he will never do it again".
Until he ends up killing her.....its called Stockholm syndrome....falling in love with your captor
I am worried how my voting will affect my citizenship score.
My favorite line...
Government can't pick winners,
But...
Losers sure pick governments
I'm way too outnumbered by all of the dipshits to vote. It's a waste of my time and anyone standing behind me in line.
'
'
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You know, I swear I saw you in line… Right behind me!
•J–<
V-V
If you receive any Federal subsidies, ie: social security, ebt, subsidized housing, etc. you shouldn't be allowed to vote. If you don't pay Federal Income taxes, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Period. It's like living in mom and dads house, if you don't pay the bills, you don't make the rules.
I'm Canadian and chose to spoil my ballot as none of the above was worth actually voting for. Call it a waste or call it protest it really doesn't matter because here are the 4 main parties platforms
Conservative: Tax, Spend, rinse and repeat.
Liberal: Borrow, Tax, Spend, rinse and repeat.
New Democratic: Borrow, Tax, Spend, Complain its not enough, rinse and repeat.
Green: Borrow, Tax, Spend, Shut down the economy, Blame climate change, rinse and repeat.
Indentured slavery for everyone!
There's a government NGO program to tell people how to vote https://www.whatsupnext.us/ MADE WITH ( insert heart) IN WASHINGTON DC
We should change to a system of encrypted internet voting and referendums on every important subject... it's called direct democracy.
https://atokenmanblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/to-vote-or-not-to-vote/
The propsed 'solutions' still do not prevent the elite from controlling the digital systems and presenting each individual with their votes while delivering a false total. "Encryption" doesn't help - it gives those in power another layer to convince everyone it is secure while it is, in fact, not. There are ways around this, but the information you present doesn't touch them.
Also, 'direct democracy' is still a democracy. Most people aren't fit to vote and these systems do nothing to adjust for this unfortunate attribute of humanity.
having a degree in economics or whatever does not make one anymore enlightened if the state will not be honest in its relations with the public as with this latest bit of choreography called a polling of the CDN citizenry. CDN federal debt stands at 700 billion and at compounding interest rates will likely double ver y8 to 10 years (rule of 70). Cdn's pay 60 billion a year on their governmental debts, the largest budgetary item before health care or any other item....all owed to the private for profit banking class which in a generation will have Canada's assets on the for sale block a la Greece...or Canada is fucked unless they can get away from the Central Banker's Cabal and re institute the Bank of Canada as the public bank it was set up to be.
Justin's Daddy started most of that debt....
Justin will take over where Daddy left.
By 2020, that federal debt will be 1.2T at LEAST!
Squid
When the vote doesn't matter then who cares who votes.
Who decides who gets to vote? The current encumbent? Ya right.
I just vote for the person with the silliest name. I want a president named Gaylord.
Pray silence: To a man that worked for decades to bring power to the people, a legendary thinker that created thunder underground - can you hear it? Courage personified.
Ladies and gentlemen: Blair Timothy Longley
Cheers!
Voting IS for Dummies
Give me a break. When the debate is over the method used to pick authoritarian rulers rather than over how any man can possess a right to violently rule over another man, then the actual issue that matters is already lost.
Next important debate coming up that everyone should focus on, the process by which the Fed chairman is selected. Because that's what matters. Not the question of whether the Fed has any legitimate basis to exist in the first place.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&...