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NASA Warns: 99% Chance Of At Least A 5.0 Quake Hitting LA Within 30 Months
If scientists at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena are correct, a moderately-sized earthquake is expected within the next two-and-a-half years.
As CBS LA reports, JPL experts predict a possible 5.0 magnitude quake in Los Angeles, but say it very well could be stronger.
JPL geophysicist Dr. Andrea Donnellan, along with seven other scientists, has been using radar and GPS to measure Southern California’s chances for a sizable earthquake, and has made a sobering hypothesis about another big one.
“When the La Habra earthquake happened, it was relieving some of that stress, and it actually shook some of the upper sediments in the LA basin and moved those a little bit more,” Dr. Donellan said.
However, according to Dr. Donnellan, those strains remain, with enough power to produce an even larger quake in the same epicenter in La Habra.
“There’s enough energy stored to produce about a magnitude 6.1 to 6.3 earthquake,” Dr. Donnellan described.
The new NASA-led analysis of a moderate magnitude 5.1 earthquake that shook Greater Los Angeles in 2014 finds that the earthquake deformed Earth's crust across a broad region encompassing the northern Los Angeles Basin and northern Orange County. As Fox LA adds rather ominously,
The shallow ground movements observed from this earthquake likely reflect strain accumulated on deeper faults, which remain locked and may be capable of producing future earthquakes.
"The earthquake faults in this region are part of a system of faults," said Donnellan. "They can move together in an earthquake and produce measurable surface deformation, even during moderate magnitude earthquakes. This fault system accommodates the ongoing shortening of Earth's crust in the northern Los Angeles region.
Tectonic motion across the Los Angeles region is distributed on an intricate network of horizontally and vertically moving faults that eventually release accumulated strain in the form of earthquakes, such as the destructive 1994 magnitude-6.7 Northridge earthquake.
Donnellan said a future earthquake to release the accumulated strain on these faults could occur on any one or several of these fault structures, which may not have been mapped at the surface. "Identifying specific fault structures most likely to be responsible for future earthquakes for this system of many active faults is often very difficult," she said.
* * *
Seismologists at the US Geological Survey have questioned that probability, suggesting it may in fact be slightly lower, stating: “…the accepted random chance of a (magnitude five) or greater in this area in three years is 85 percent, independent of the analysis in this paper.”
USGS uses different methods from radar and GPS, such as fault maps and models, to develop their results.
Regardless of the discrepancy in percentage, scientists agree that the probability of at least a moderate-sized earthquake in Los Angeles over the next three years is high.
“We all need to be prepared. That’s not new for LA.”
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Waiting for the Hollyweird fault to open up and swallow...
See you down at Arizona Bay!
Any fucking time. Any fucking day.
This article is shit.
5.0
lol
-Chumblez.
Slept through many 4-5 before.
So the NASA Jet Propulsion lab is now in the business of predicting earthquakes.
I guess they needed a new line of work to get into after their global warming predictions and models failed spectacularly... you know... considering that they can't even make rockets anymore.
Tonight’s forecast.. Dark
Mostly dark followed by scattered light in the morning.
We expect a high tide here today...twice.
I live in a liquefaction zone.
Come on guys. Just admit that the quake will be caused by Global Warming.
Earthquakes are caused by YOU! Pay your carbon tax.
OMG! OMG!
We must, like, totally have an earthquake tax because it will be a big crisis and we're gonna need the money to pay people who won't go to work! And we, like, totally need to elect Hillary because Hillary will put a stop to this earthquake nonsense if she's elected, so, like, we totally need to elect her.
Oh, and like, we need you to like totally turn in your guns because they're known to cause earthquakes.
Shee-it.....We just ha-da 5.5 in Fukushima yesterday. Big deal
The best way to predict the future is to make it happen.
gee, NASA should ax the musloids about it first...after all, if it tweren't fer them, we'd have no rockit-ships! ;-)
Boy, NASA is really going out on a limb here.
Look it up on Wikipedia (california earthquakes), and you will find that the greater LA area has had seven 5.0 or greater in the last 20 years...most quite a bit larger than 5.0.
The bozos at NASA nowadays are not the heros who got us to the moon.....fire them all.
They are noticeably quiet on radiation measurements as is the EPA.
LOL! Yer post is appropo for your Moniker!
Silly liberal, guns don't cause earthquakes, people cause earthquakes.
If you get too close to a herd of land whales you will feel an earthquake
...and yet, the fracking shall continue. Is there a tax for that too?
.
I loved George Carlin's comedy.
"At least the mudslides from the torrential rains are putting out the wildfires!" - Johnny Carson
Maybe the earth will open up and absorb all the extra heat from global warming. Or maybe if we all paid 90% of our money to the govt and went full retar...uh....socialist... the govt will save us. Once again.
Thanks big gov...
Didnt you see San Andreas?
Talk about Hollywood doing predictive programming and getting people to visualize that happening...makes one wonder if there is anything to visualizing things causing them to manifest.
So, yer saying that "The Towering Inferno" didn't happen in "real-life"?
No, I'm saying first came 'Towering Inferno' (and Fight Club, for God's sake!), THEN with those images engraved in our heads, came THE EVENT.
Want to hear another weird connection to nineoneone? I read an article (can't find the link unfortunately) that had over forty illustrations/pictures of the towers falling that came from magazines, movies, comics, etc. in the years prior to THE EVENT, including an epic screen shot from 'Back to the Future' showing 9-1-1 and another one from The Simpsons. So, there is DEFINITELY some bullshit going on there that is simply unreal.
If you want something to look to for potential FUTURE events, check out the cover of the Economist from this January. Then check back in two weeks and see if this guy was right:
http://redefininggod.com/2015/10/globalist-agenda-watch-2015-update-78-t...
Check out:
- Hidden in Hollywood
also
- Hollywood Knew
Too many coincidences to call it a broken clock.
I watched "Blonde Nymphomaniac 6" the other day (ok, got through about 10 minutes of it). Is this another event that Hollywood knows is going to happen soon?
Most idiotic video that shows nothing but clips from movies with 911 or pictures of the twin towers.
That movie was a laugh.
A big split and the ocean flows all the way to Barstow (Elevation 2,175), filling the canyon to the brim.
I live here (3,000 elevation) because I invested in beach front property...some day.
I believe the movie makers were showing us that the 9/11 pancake collapse and complete disintegration of the towers were bullshit. In the beginning of the movie, they show buildings collapsing in two ways...
1. Tall buildings falling over like felled trees (more realistic) and... wait for it...
2. When the ex wife was waiting on top of a building for the hero to rescue her, that building underwent a pancake collapse. 3-4 floors fell down. Then, miraculously (or more like realistically, the mass of the lower floors stopped the pancake collapse), she rode it down about 4 floors when the pancaking stopped due to insufficient energy available (from gravity) to turn the entire structure, including the steel frame, into dust.
The physics displayed on 9/11 were Hollywood. Cartoonish. Not real. Since when can an aluminum tube slice through structural steel? Since 9/11, that's when. Since when can a huge airliner cut through steel on one bulding, then fit through a 20 ft hole on another, then still another where a plane hits the ground and poof ,there's not a speck of recognizable debris or a body.
Unfortunately most Americans either didn't take physics, or thought science was 'boring' and that 'they would never need to know this shit'.
Our owners are well aware of that ignorance and exploit every single motherfucking day.
Remember, "THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOM".
Only 'they' doesn't mean what they want you to think it means.
im more concerned with the radioactive plume off the coast as the pacific gets more and more radioactive from fukushima.
Take heart...
If this prediction bears out, Diablo Canyon would give you much more plume for your worry than Fukushima.
So there's that...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_Canyon_Power_Plant
99% chance of Rain in the next 30 days in CA.
Wow NASA really go out on a limb with a predictable prediction.
a future earthquake to release the accumulated strain on these faults could occur on any one or several of these fault structures
Absolute bullshit. The strain can be released in small steps, or one big slip. Of course, they chose to predict the most unlikely worst.
As others have pointed out, these clowns can't even build rockets any more. But they had to find a way to keep the gov checks rolling in.
Who the hell names a reactor sitting on two fault lines Diablo... somebody has a real sick sense of humor
Wanna hear another good one? 'Chernobyl' is Russian for 'Wormwood,' as found in the book of Revelation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_(city)
I swear, makes you wonder if psychopaths sit around thinking up names for stuff that they can put right under our noses to see if we ever figure things out before they happen...
Maybe its not humor. Maybe they are planning something..
Who is this Shima that everyone keeps saying Fuku to?
I think Shima may Fuku - and the rest of the planet.
Janet Yellin or Hillary Clinton falling on their asses would generate a larger quake...Maybe NASA should monitor their travel schedules and issue warnings for the destinations...5.0???...BWHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
I don't think I'd even register a 5.0.
Landers Big Bear Quake, though (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Landers_earthquake), is the first one where my feet actually left the ground. And the only one I've ever seen in the desert where cracks appeared. Weird shit, essentially sand and rock, split across the land in a four inch crack across Highway 247 (Old Woman Springs Road) and through the greasewood. That was awesome.
lol indeed
I see that 99% chance of a 5.0 quake in 30 months and raise it 100% chance in 30 months an earthquake is the least of our problems.
But you should be afraid....and you should buy stuff to calm your fears.
Imagine the broken windows that would result!!! Kruggybear prays daily to Lord Keynes, that such an even occurs.
Fire up the HAARP machine!
Look out for CERN activity 30 months from now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN6fDP9lHK8
I'll hold out and wait for the EPA, DOE and BLS to give their predictions.
NASA ought to stick to space related work and leave earth science up to USGS.
With the EPAs current trend of amazing work in Colorado stream and environment protection...one can only guess they are now busy packing explosives right into the faults in order to protect them.
It'd be nice if you'd change your avatar/picture, because it causes me to have to rub one out more than I'd like,
but hey--that's my problem. Just thought I'd share. OK I'll be back in a few minutes. (He mumbled while
casting about for his tissue box)
There are lots of places on the interwebs where you can find such images in much higher resolution, or so I've been told.
I think it's a very nice avatar...a fuckin' great avatar. Wish I'd had the sense to find one similar.
agreed. you could combine it with my dog's tongue for a really super one.....
Upvote for the Tool reference. Most appropro.
https://youtu.be/yCXrgASzf50?t=52m57s
My son is road-tripping out to Tempe to see them next week. I've yet to be so fortunate.
[jealousy intensifies]
Tool....great musicians....but a band that is less than the sum of its parts nonetheless
Their spinoff band Puscifer is playing their new album the next day too. It's more mellow and occasionally has some electronic stuff but is still effin awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtZJiQSmJ9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR3ccmWmLhk
Meh. Not a problem, if you are a decent looking girl with big tits.
Dwayne Johnson is on his way by chopper to save your sweet ass.
I saw it on Netflix, so it has to be true.
Bill Hicks was taken from us far too soon.
Consequences, shmonsequences, as long as I'm rich...
the best place to be when an earthquake hits LA is..............in West "By God" Virginia!
In other news, 99% chance of mudslides, brushfires, and riots within the next 10,950 days in Southern California.
the Four Seasons in SoCal: Drought, Riots, Fires, Floods.
Escape from LA!
wanna know the truth? I am! I will be gone from LA in a few weeks.
Freedom from bureaucrats!!!
Come on, if there is such a place you have to let the ZHers in on it.
(I think it's in the terms of service - small print, right at the end!)
IIRC, you've got to have a surfboard to make it epic.
They still don't know where all the faults are and anything could happen at any time. What amazes me is government bureaucrats publicly rolling the dice.....
They should hold a special session and make earthquakes illegal.
Earthquake free zones.......
Deport those earthquake back to where they came from and build an anti-earthquake fence!
The gov't could announce that it was going to happen next month and the majority of the population wouldn't remember that they said it.
GDP positive!
I always cringe when they try to time earthquakes. Maybe they'll get it this time, but predicting the timing is rather difficult. Figuring out how much a fault would slip if all of the stresses were relieved is one thing. Figuring out when those stresses are going to get relieved is another.
Honestly, I feel like they just made this up. Part of keeping science a religion is stoking public unease, and reinforcing the image of omniscience.
Someone picked 30 mo because either:
1) By that time 90% of Americans will be gone and the rest won't care/remember.
2) It's a nice, big, round number. And they gonna blow a fault on purpose 3-4 months from now.
The 85% figure is BAU. 99% is sorta out-there. Interesting.
Bullish.
I have my tiny violin out of its case.
Good because "They" have their big HAARP outta theirs.
HAARP was decommissioned, so...may want to shift your crackpot to CERN or as someone mentioned above...Nibiru.
http://www.alaskapublic.org/2015/07/15/haarp-to-be-transferred-to-uaf/
Holy shit. Now this dastardly evil weapon has fallen into the hands of....
University of Alaska Fairbanks? We are truly fucked now. What if frat boys get a hold of it and play the brown note on that ionospheric trombone?
That's gonna be a mess.
HEY MAN!! The brown note is no joke!! you keep on and you'll find yourself in a world of shit!! (literally)
LOL!!
Hey, they killed Kenny!!
...you leave my crack and pot outta this, I'll have you know I was unencumbered by any substances when I replied earlier,
but alas, it is now late in the day and I can't make that assertion as of this posting--- (He typed after packing and sparking his pipe)
Fair enough.
Don't know what time it is where you are, but it was Bowl O'Clock here about an hour ago.
Can you name one weapon that the government gave up voluntarily?
Okay, so your saying HARP hasnt't fully committed...
"....especially when Nibiru is close enough to send Everest-sized meteors into Earths' gravitational field. Don't print that."
Some say a comet will fall from the sky.
Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
Followed by fault lines that cannot sit still.
Followed by millions of dumbfounded dip shits.
Some say the end is near.
Some say we'll see Armageddon soon.
I certainly hope we will cause
I sure could use a vacation from this
Stupid shit, silly shit, stupid shit...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/21/us/asteroid-earth-nasa-halloween-feat/
It's from CNN so it HAS to be true.
Hopefully this show is better than the Rock's movie San Andreas.
Watching a dog lick his balls for two hours is better than that movie.
and the point of all this is...?
Black swan?
...shit happens. 100% of the time, when it does.
The point is, Chumblez is grinning ear to ear at all of these silly comments...and laughing at NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory.
I was the SillySalesman
Pitts Off
All we need to do is prepare?
You sound like a terrorist. Are you a terrorist Tyler? Huh? Huh? Answer the fucking question or Marla gets it!
Do what he say!!! Do What he say!!!!
I'm no geologist, but isn't a 5.0 a fairly small earthquake?
It's big enough to cause some damage. Not a lot, but some. And it'll knock shit off of shelves too.
shit off shelves? oy vey, it's a shoah. think of the children! please, federal gubmint, halp us!!!!! we'll do anything!!!!
Think of the broken windows.
The 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake was 6.9, that is perhaps 80 times stronger than a 5.0 and was not a catastrophic event. Damaged the Bay Bridge (closed for months) but only few killed.
5.0 is no big thing to worry about.
That's not to say that the big one will not strike, it surely will one day but no-one knows when.
Loma Prieta?
In SF the first stories of many buildings disappeared into the ground -- which, you know, is disconcerting.
The collapse of the top deck of the double deck freeway onto the bottom deck was inconvenient as well . . . especially for those on the bottom.
"I'm no geologist, but isn't a 5.0 a fairly small earthquake?"
Depends on whether you are sitting directly on top of it or not.
Very true. If even a 3.0 goes off directly under you, it will wet your pants if nothing worse. OTOH a 5.0 even ten miles away is about as threatening as your five year old jumping off the couch.
A 3.0 wouldn't even wake me. Something 7 or above will absolutely fuck you up.
Big Bear Landers Quake we were in one level apartments, wife and kids were in Florida visiting grandma for easter.
The 5.9 woke me up and I ran outside to palm tree. Wasn't so bad. Went back into the apartment and laid back down. a minute later the next jolt sent me back to the palm tree.
I held on as the thumping literally made my feet leave the ground, then there was this wierd swirl that got me dizzy. About that time I realized I was holding onto a palm tree, outside, in my underwear. The neighbor lady was holding onto a pine tree, absolutely naked.
We waved to each other, went back to our apartments and acted as if it never happened.
I thought I was going to die during the Nisqually quake in 2001. I took shelter in a doorway. I kept getting smacked into the door jamb and there was nothing I could do about it. It was like being hit by an invisible hand. The sounds of the buildings shaking was intimidating also. That was a 6.8. It was so bad me and my friends had to drink the afternoon away at the local bar because everything else was closed.
I was in the Loma Prieta quake. Got knocked off the couch, ran outside to see the street and sidewalks ripple like a 1 foot high wave up and down the street. My jeep was literally bouncing down the street. Went to the liquor store and half the inventory was smashed on the floor and about 1" of booze covered the floor, almost cried. Anyway, idiots wandering around with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths with high octane booze vapors all around. I got my bottle and got the fuck home where my buddies and I spent the next several hours consoling ourselves.
Important thing about Mr Richter's scale is that it is logarithmic.
Shit fell of my walls and dishes fell off counter 4.7 earth quake. woke me out of my sleep....... but ya not a life ending deal.
Unless a loaded set of them Book Shelves falls on top of you...
What? You do not have a library in yer home?
Taking into account that there are over 1000 earthquakes in the world every year higher than 5.0 in the Richter scale, it doesn't look like a bold prediction.
"I'm no geologist, but isn't a 5.0 a fairly small earthquake?" -Bangin7GramRocks
A 5.0 will lead to quite a few broken windows, which is every Keynesian's dream. So are the cracked walls, pools, roads, etc.
Put another way...
At 5.0, Mother Nature is a Statist Keynesian. Ditto for 6.0 or 7.0. At 9.0 she becomes a libertarian.
I live in LA. I know the quake probailities - I actually spoke to the USGS scientist who computed the chances for these quakes. I have also looked very carefully at the fault lines, and the historic earthquakes. My "gut feeling" is that NASA is much closer to the truth. More likely a large quake will happen in the next 2-3 years. But it will be bigger than 5.0, more likely a magnitude 6 or 7. And that will do a lot of damage to the ciy of Los Angeles.
I also computed the chances that the San Andreas will rupture. The southern San Andreas is now seriously overdue for the long-awaited Big Earthquake. If you look at the probabilities, there is a 98% chance that the Big One should have already happened. So at this stage, California is "hanging by a thread". But nobody knows ... will it be this year, or five years, or twenty years? You just don't know.
One thing is totally sure. Californians, and people in Los Angeles, are hopelessly unprepared for this major disaster. Most people are lucky if they have 2-3 days of water in their house. After that, I figure that's when the shooting will start. Sad, but true.
Unpossible...California is completely disarmed.
There are sections of the San Andreas that are ready to slip in the tens of feet. But that could happen today, or not until next century.
I'm still waiting for the Long Valley Caledera to blow
Good thing this one doesn't look like it's getting ready to blow:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.8807925,-106.6345458,60882m/data=!3m1!1e3
yeah, but Yellowstone is about 200,000 years overdue.
No point in worrying about that one. If it goes VEI8, there's not a damned thing that we can do about it.
If Yellowstone goes off, all the preparation in the world is not going to save you if you live in US or most of Canada.
If you have a good store of booze and pain killers, at least you will be able to go out on your own terms without spreading your brains up the wall or having the needle-like shards of volcanic glass slice up your lungs.
What a happy thought!
I'm not worried about volcanic glass, I breathe through a Marlboro filter.
Hey Primal --- stockpiling water ain't so important in most of LA....since there is a swimming pool every couple o houses.
I was in Granada Hills for the '71 Sylmar quake....a real nasty one, worse locally than the 6.6 scale would give since it was real shallow. Lots of condemned houses, damn almost broke, etc.
We had water shutoff for a couple weeks, but it was my job to fetch buckets of water from a pool two houses away. Plenty good for washing and flushing the toilets, and we'd drive in bottled to drink.
If I had one lesson to impart on all the LA folks, it would be to show them how to shutoff their gas main, and to tie-wrap a wrench to do so right to the pipe. Saw a couple neighborhood houses blow up in '71 a week or so after the quake when they turned the gas back on in the neighborhood......
Presuming everything is still standing 30 months from now, would such a earthquake constitute a Black Swan event?
I will make the same prediction.
5.0 is not a big quake and the damage is little to CA buildings.
1989 there was a 5.0 in August, just before the bigger quake and guess what
nuthin happened.
This is just more fear propaganda by the government.
"you need us, you really do"
All I know is that there have been some HUGE earthquakes in Chile, and the Far East in the last 5 years and NOTHING huge on the west coast of the US.
I say it will be a BIG one.
No subduction around here bro.
...and why are you still in CA????
Mudslides.... wild fires.... earth quakes.... droughts.... Locusts... frogs... rivers flowing with blood... California has it all. every possible kind of disaster, especially the political kind.
So, the dude must dig latinas, or chicks with fake boobs, fake hair, fake skin, fake lips, and no brains.
Go get yourself a book: "Ecology of Fear" by Mike Davis....... way ahead of you.
Where else in the world that you could ride a horse in Death Valley, ski in Big Bear and surf Malibu..
all in the same day?
On the plus side, liquifaction could end the drought.
San Andreas is less than ten miles from me.
Interstate 15 crosses it a couple times as it goes north or south. It's a visible cleft following the freeway if you pay attention to it.
Around Phelan/Wrightwood, it hooks to the west along the San Gabriel Mountains and turns north around Littlerock.
When I lived there in the 80's they were saying the same thing... the 'big one' was overdue and expected.
I would talk to people about it, about having a quake kit and a bugout plan. and most would say "what quake?".
Everybody there was living in denial about the risks posed by large quake.
The biggest risk in SoCal is not the quake, but the interuption of water supplies. Canals, earthen dammed resevoirs etc. 30M people in a fucking desert.
At my HS in Lakeside CA, the earthquake drill consisted of everyone running as fast as possible up the hill next to the school. We ran them once per year during my tenure there.
See, there were not one but two large earthen damned resevoirs uphill from that school. And any significant quake was going to breach those dams and send that water down the valley, right into Lakeside.
Even as a teenager I recognized both the danger posed by quakes, but also the danger posed by the after effects, namely lots of thirsty people and no water. And maybe some fires too.
It's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
Now overlay the above fault map with the plots of past and active fracking sites. Neat, huh? What could go wrong.
Of course, it's a clear manifestation of global warming. This cannot be argued against.
/s
Man cannot live by data alone, but our government can.
The max they predict to be possible is a 6.3 so if they are correct the actual is less.
Is a 5 to 6 not something to always expect in that region?
This seems like an event that warrants an advisory for those who live in older structures. Not a panic.
Party pooper.
HAARP WILL BE USED TO SET-OFF THE FAULTS. People need to wake up to this technology. It does work.....
What about the large Hispanic population always ripping burrito farts...Ill bet that could set off the big one...
Anybody got a match???
Well with all the drive thru 'mex' restaurants on every corner it's not just them aerating their bellys with toxic stew.
BTW a 5.0 here isn't much. The last 3ish we had was a roller though, people were still dizzy after the motion stopped. Could expect mass vomiting if this predicted one rolls and lasts longer.
That's a flatulant lie!!
I've set all kinds of beans in front of my illegal workers and not one of them will eat any of it.
It seems that they do not want to have the shits/farts while they diligently work twelve hours a day for $10 an hour doing whatever I say. It impedes them.
Just did a home renovation using illegals. Budgeted 30k, did it in $20k because the first week took care of 90% of what we needed.
And instead of $10 per hour I was paying generously, these guys put american workers to shame.
I hired to american kids to paint the house, inside and out, and replace outlets, switches and fixtures. They totally fucked it up, and the mexicans went behind them and fixed all the fuck ups within three hours.
I admit it, I love mexicans and their culture. I grew up in California, speak some spanish (poorly, but they love my accent) and they are some of the hardest working people that remain on the earth. These random selections are some of the most decent people I've known. And they have taken great pride in the work they're doing.
When we're done, I'm inviting the workers, and their wives/girlfriends, to a bar be que in their honor. What they have transformed my house into in less than 45 days is astoundingl.
Was that the meximelt I just ate, or a fart tip on a riced out Civic?
My prediction is this coin will land either heads or tails up 100% of the time.
Look at this data
http://scedc.caltech.edu/significant/chron-index.html
A retarded person could predict a 5 or greater.
You forgot to factor in the third occurance. That the coin lands on it's edge. Which does happen.