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Competitor Offers Equivalent To Turing's Scandalous $750 Pill For Just $1
While Valeant was the most prominent casualty of a dramatic drop across the entire biotech/spec pharma space, the plunge started over a month ago when the NYT brought attention to what it dubbed "price gouging" at Martin Shkreli's Turing Pharma which raised the price of its only drug, Daraprim, by over 5000% from $13.50 to $750 overnight. This price increase, and the media storm that followed, prompted none other than Hillary Clinton to get involved in the debate of what should be a "fair price" for drugs, going so far as to propose price caps.
One of the consequences of this episode was to make Shkreli into a media and industry outcast, infuriating not only such natural advertising media outlets at CNBC, but also his industry peers who have seen their value tumble in the aftermath of the (long overdue) close attention paid by regulators into pricing practices.
But at least he had one thing going: a business model that afforded him solid margins, because despite promising to cut the price of the scandalous Daraprim, Turing did not do that.
Now, however, even that may be in jeopardy following news that San Diego-based specialty drug maker Imprimis Pharmaceuticals, says it can make a close, customized version of Daraprim for a paltry $1 a pill, NBC reports. That's a big contrast to the $750-a-dose that Shkreli said Turing was going to start charging for the same drug.
What makes Shkreli's price hike particularly disturbing is that there is nothing in Daraprim, known generically as pyrimethamine, that makes it expensive to produce: it's been around since 1953 and has been generic for decades. It's prescribed for a range of parasitic infections but is especially used by patients infected with HIV who are vulnerable to toxoplasmosis.
Turing bought Daraprim from Impax Laboratories in August for $55 million and raised the price from $13.50 a tablet to $750. It had originally been made and sold by GlaxoSmithKline for about $1 a tablet.
The Infectious Diseases Society of America and the HIV Medicine Association estimated it would cost $336,000 a year to treat someone with toxoplasmosis at the $750 price, a cost which incidentally would be mostly absorbed by the various health insurance, Obamacare and Medicare buffers which spread the astronomical cost of drugs across the entire US population, thus allowing "executives" like Shkreli to assume there is no limit to how high drug prices may go.
The problem arises when competitors, eager for a piece of the pie, demonstrate just how cheap drug production truly is.
"While we respect Turing's right to charge patients and insurance companies whatever it believes is appropriate, there may be more cost-effective compounded options for medications, such as Daraprim, for patients, physicians, insurance companies and pharmacy benefit managers to consider," Imprimis CEO Mark Baum said in a statement.
"This is not the first time a sole supply generic drug — especially one that has been approved for use as long as Daraprim — has had its price increased suddenly and to a level that may make it unaffordable," Baum said.
"In response to this recent case and others that we will soon identify, Imprimis is forming a new program called Imprimis Cares which is aligned to our corporate mission of making novel and customizable medicines available to physicians and patients today at accessible prices," Baum said.
Shkreli had said the money from the increase would be used to develop better treatment for toxoplasmosis that have fewer side effects, and that drugs like Daraprim will not exist if small companies cannot get a return on their investment.
It now looks like Daraprim will not exist but for a much simpler reason: a better drug will soon be available for a tiny fraction of the cost.
"Imprimis is now offering customizable compounded formulations of pyrimethamine and leucovorin in oral capsules starting as low as $99.00 for a 100 count bottle, or at a cost of under a dollar per capsule."
The more instances of such comparable "price discovery" emerge, the more angry and violent the public's reaction will be to "astronomical" price increases by Turing's industry peers, which while undisputedly negative for spec pharma revenues and valuations, will at least result in some "price deflationary" benefits for the US consumer.
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He must making a loss of $749 a pill.
Prescription drugs cost up to 10 times more in the United States than they do in other countries
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/09/drug-o09.html …
Forward to no inflation in the land of the free
So will they sell it for $1.50 a pill? I say that's a hell of a mark up and fair.
Let's look at drug prices and hospital costs in the US in a global context:
For example, while the average cost of the acid reflux drug Nexium was $215 in the US, it was a mere $23 in the Netherlands, $42 in England, and $58 in Spain. The average price of the multiple sclerosis medication Copaxone stood at $3,903 in the US, but only $862 in England, $898 in New Zealand, and $1,191 in Spain. The depression drug Cymbalta was sold for $194 in the US, but for only $46 in England, $52 in the Netherlands, and $110 in Canada.
Similar price discrepancies were found for Enbrel, used to treat autoimmune diseases, Gleevec, a cancer drug, Humira, prescribed for rheumatoid arthritis, Gilenya, a treatment for multiple sclerosis, and Celebrex, a pain drug.
The survey also compared the average hospital costs along with the prices of a number of medical procedures. The average hospital cost per day in 2013 was $4,923 in the United States, while it was $481 in Spain, $702 in Argentina, and $1,308 in Australia. The average cost of bypass surgery was $75,345 in the US, compared to $15,742 in the Netherlands, $16,247 in Spain, and $42,130 in Australia. And while an angioplasty would run patients $27,907 on average in the US, it would only be $5,246 in Argentina, $5,295 in the Netherlands, and $8,477 in Australia.
In 2013, the year in which the survey data was drawn, the prices of 227 of the top branded drugs widely used by older patients in the United States went up by an average of 12.9 percent—eight times higher than the rate of inflation, according to a report presented to the Senate last year.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/10/09/drug-o09.html
The US also has the most stringent approvals process in the world. Who do you think PAYS for those approvals and the multiple layers of bureaucracy?
Sure you can have cheap drugs like in India. Just strip away all the laws, oversight and right to sue the manufacturers if the drugs kill or maim you. Its EASY to get cheap drugs, you just trade it for safety and corporate responsibility.
Which do you want? You can't have both.
I think the issue may not quite as black-and-white as you paint it. If India is at one extreme, the US is a polar opposite. Relatively safe medicine at a much more reasonable price can be achieved while moving more to the middle of these two extremes. Last but most certainly not least....Oversight and approval is only part of the 'hidden cost' of drugs....a BIG chunk of this is gigantic marketing budgets, and very large profits. And let us not forget the 'fake accounting' where everything gets labeled as drug development.
but what i wonder is, is this good for the jewish people?
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20150923203835AAuAm2Z
err?
you dont seem to be aware the ingredients for most of the drugs come from china/india sth american labs owned BY the big pharmas?
poland and ireland were popular spots to open production in the last few yrs
eu is sorta of slow ireland seems to waver up and down open plant spend millions shut plant reopen etc
many are made os and just shipped in in generic labels and brand names
same crap
its amazing how many times I hear of recalls, and they manage to go from start to pill in pack and then??? find an ingredient was off/wrong/contaminated
so?
one has to ask why isnt every single batch of every ingredient tested PRIOR to blending?
that would be strict and vital QC
it does NOT happen
and theres quite a few warnings and fines handed out IN american manufacture/processing plants for pharmas
just the public doesnt hear about them
They make the same expensive marked up medicines in India and China sweatshops anyway. More profit.
I paid $130 to online company for a blood test. Had blood drawn at quest. Quest shredded my online receipt and charged my doctor $340. The doctor said I was responsible so quest billed me $483.
WTF!
so tell quest to fuck off
I'm workin with the online co. They tell me they can fix it. If not Quest can get in line..
these laboratories, all of them, have the most amazing mark ups for cash customers.
if you have insurance, the insurance companies pay like $8 to quest, and they accept it, for a test that a cash customer is charged $150 or so. this is absolutely true and, in my experience, the greatest disparity between insured reimbursement and charge to cash customers in healthcare. there are probably worse ones, the world being what it is, but this is what i've seen.
There are plenty of low cost blood drawing labs that don't require a doctor's order. The blood is sent to a local testing center and the results are sent to you. I order my blood tests through the Life Extension Foundation and the blood is drawn and tested by Quest. Members get a big discount, and I get the results in a few days by email. There is no doctor's office as a middleman and since I pay in advance through Life Extension, I don't get any bills from Quest.
good advice.
Hey, all those Insurance adjusters and Hospital Administrators don't work for free! It takes effort to move stacks of paper!
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Big Pharma, Big Softwear, Big Equipment, Big Music, Big Hollywood, Big XYZ hate the smell of competition in the morning.
15horses1donkey.
IF ZERO HEDGE HAD A FUCKING CURRENCY OF IT'S OWN, IT WOULD BE MINTED IN INCORRUPTABLE NON HYPOTHECATED NON DERIVATIVE NON MARGIN ABLE SILVER OR GOLD.
Jesus, fucking kids these days. You all think technology is a miracle. All it is is electrons that can be made to go poof any fucking minute now.
Crypto currency is just a fancy name for digital fractional reserve banking - without the reserve, or the bank.
If I blew up your phone right now, you would look like a cow at the slaughterhouse just at the moment the bolt gun goes off - " How could you do this to me ? What'll I do now ? "
Improvise. Adapt. Overcome. Triumph over adversity.
And, transform your idea into minting a fucking physical coin out of noble metals, with Tyler's permission before he copyright lawyers your ass into bankruptcy.
Well, my attempt at humor sure fell flat. I don't intend to scam anyone, but I do intend to learn about scams along the way. I'll try post some useful things I learn, but I am no writer so it'll probably be painful. I'll try though.
FAIR???
The whole concocted mass media storyline has been created to impart the impression that Big Pharma is fair.
The problem with Big Pharma is like the problem with Monsanto. These people are evil to the core.
Look at the synthetic heroin problem, the over-doping of young male school kids on Medicaid, and the elderly on MediCare, and the problem with psychotropic drugs and mass murder/suicide.
You've been gaffed by a shake and bake propaganda ploy manufactured to let you think something is being done to ensure Big Pharma is fair. Big Pharma is not fair.
Holy fuck, people are stupid!
You stuck the landing on that one Give up.
"Holy fuck, people are stupid!"
We could all go and meditate on that nugget for the next 12 months easy..........
It's genetic: Some folks catch monkeys by placing an orange (or other fruit) in a small cage with a hole big enough for a monkey to get its paw into. Once they grab the fruit, they can't get their paw out again and are caught by the trapper(s).
You have government regulations to thank for the exhorbitant prices.
Half the problem, the other half being the greedy corporations of big pharma: "research and development" my ass!
"You want to not suffer or die? $750 bub." The Kleptoligarchy wins again!
Take a GOOD LOOK at profitablilty of big pharma. Even the most profitable pharma companies are well down the list. They are generally considered fair to poor investments.
So how much does the management get paid?
$100K/year or $1 Million plus stock options? C'mon.
Kind of interesting that your ZH moniker references a blood sucker and here you are supporting them.
Yes, the regulation that stands out the most is the one preventing medicare from competitively negotiating prices with pharmaceutical companies.
A lot of people don't understand this. We, the US, essentially subsidize healthcare for the ROW.
As bad as Pharma is potrayed in the media they still need to do research and reward talent. Making innovative drugs is about as hard as it gets and requires a ton or money, hence the high drug prices.
The working taxpayers also subsidize the medicines and entire health care for the entire FSA also. That's also part of the problem. I'm not saying they should to be treated but many think their health care, etc is paid for by Obama.
And at least 51% of the population are low information voters. There is no fixing our mess unless the herd is culled.
They have socialized medicine in ALMOST every country, yet the same medicine and treatments cost only a fraction of they do in US. Explain this? Even if a single person without insurance would not be treated in US, your costs would not budge.
When you look at the side effects from some of the drug "innovations", you have to wonder if the "innovation" is worth it.
I particularly dislike innovations that are put in vaccine form and then forced on America.
Sure, pill costs $1.00 but there has to be a markup of a gazillion percent.
The FDA kills people each time it delays a new drug. But it's a hidden cost so the public doesn't care/know
Who downvotes this? Idiots?
Learn the difference between implicit and explicit costs, and how big government wants to trade modest amounts of the latter (which are visible) for obscene amounts of the former (which are hard to measure), and market it as magic to morons.
AT. EVERY. TURN.
"The FDA kills people each time it delays a new drug." is only true if the drug is a life saving one and IF the drug is safe. Dumb shoot from the hip commentary deserves to be down voted. It may have nothing to do with whether or not the FDA is really looking out for the best interest of the consumer.
Who determines what's in "the best interest of the consumer"? Regulators? Lawyers? Pseudo-scientists?
That's what doctors and their patients used to do together, before they were labeled "consumers" by people like you and the FDA.
Fuck the FDA.
C'mon, fucking doctors are what the FDA is . . . doctors enjoying the lucrative revolving door between government and racketeering private industry. WTF. They allow the fucking pharm companies to design and execute their own safety and efficacy studies. What a fucking joke this "regulation" is . . . just as with Wall Street, the MIC, etc.
Do some research on Thalidomide, then check yer premises.
or go back to the mckinley era, prior to teddy roosevelt, and check out the food and drug industries then. try reading upton sinclair's the jungle before dinner, if you want to lose weight.
The FDA's budget keeps getting slashed to 0, so expect further delays. Think about that when your local congressman bitches about budget costs on the FDA while voting himself and fellow representitives a healthy raise.
"The FDA kills people each time it approves a new drug."
There, I fixed it for ya.
Sure like the recently aprroved Invokana?
This Albanian wannabe corporate mafia type needs a long week of electroshock
Good I hope he loses his ass. And if you think Shkreli's little stunt isn't planned you may want to look at where this asshole's campaign money goes to.
Wish him get cancer and see how he feels.
So, the market is fixing it?
I like Mr. Market, when he is allowed to come out of the shadows and do his thing.
Except the market can't fix situations like this. There's a very limited market for this particular drug.
There is a barrier to entry in the form of testing and registration for ALL drugs, whether they are patented or generic. If there's a second APPROVED supplier? Then market share will be divided in half, making it impossible to make a profit unless the prices are even HIGHER.
actually its a pretty BIG market, just with aids n others presently
let alone the african continent and others
and
a report I read a while back stated that they suspect 50%or more of UK dementia patients are likely to have Toxoplasmosis in the brain due to the amount of cats in homes and roaming spreading it.
another huge market there.
You are again confusing MANUFACTURING a drug and SELLING an APPROVED drug in the US.
It's easy to sell anything you want in Africa. India will produce all you want for $0.10 a pill. But you can't sue the company and there is no quality control or approvals.
Unpossible!
Almost all drugs are cheap to produce. What isn't cheap are the APPROVALS. And those approvals need to be kept up EVERY YEAR in order for the drug to be sold, not just when the drug is first approved. Another huge cost is liabilty.
Sure some companies are gouging.
If people want cheap drugs, then get rid of the approval process. BUT WAIT, the same people screaming for lower drug prices are ALSO screaming for MORE TESTING and better control to prevent things like Thalidomide coming to market.
Here's a hint, testing COSTS MONEY. It costs over a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market these days, and even if the drug fails the tests and doesn't pass, it STILL costs the company a billion dollars.
Who do you think PAYS for that testing?
Want cheap drugs? Get rid of most of the testing and government regulations, and prevent anyone from suing drug companies for bad drugs. There will be lot of competition to drive prices down. Just like in India.
"If people want cheap drugs, then get rid of the approval process. "
The Turing case puts that reason on its head - buy for $50 million and reset the price with no R&D - what does that mean to you?
look you amortize the R&D fails and successes - over a period say 15 years - divided by market size demand add 15% equity return and you have a price which is no where near any of the present pricing numbers.
The pricing protocol in 1965 was different and the market had good returns.
This will get fixed all fo a sudden - the Pharma control of DC will not last - the stock prices will soon reflect hat reality
There are approvals needed every year to keep the drug registered so it can be sold. Just becasue a drug can be MANUFACTURED, doesn't mean it can be SOLD.
In 1965, the approvals process and annual drug registration was almost non-existent. Costs to entry were low.
As for the particular drug in the story? He bought the rights to it from a charity who were selling the drug. Don't know who was actually manufacturing the drug.
Sure a drug can be MANUFACTURED for $1, but it can't be SOLD unless it's approved, even if it's a legacy, non-patented drug. Those approvals for SALE are costly if they can't be spread over millions of people.
He paid $55 million for the drug, which went to the charity. Is he gouging? sure he is, but because he has to pay off that $55 million, and there's a small market for the drug, he sure isn't going to be able to sell it for the previous price of $13.50
once a drug is created trialled and the formula and effects and adverse is known
then there should be no need FOR further approvals
you just highlighted the CON scam whatever you name it of GOVT gouging
and the the pharmas PAY the FDA for approval and many drugs get by due to the expectation we paid millions, you need to ok it
aspartame was ruled as unsafe BY the fda scientists
cheney? or oneof the other slimebags had shares and over ruled/pressured for its release.
Vioxx and Maxtor killed thousands
they didnt pull them for years just reluctantly blackboxed and even then..they still get handed out like bloody lollies
So then why not spread those development ,testing, licensing etc. costs over all of the consumers instead of it being so heavily financed off of the Americans? If a pill costs $10 here, and $4 everywhere else, why not bring the world price to say, $5 or $6?
You are describing socialism.
And that still doesn't address costs in the US. A LOT of those costs are related to government approvals. Are you aware that most countries require their own approvals? So even if a company has a drug approved in another country, they STILL have to go through everything again for approval in the US.
You know, just to make sure that nothing slips by. Because people demanded SAFETY, and the government obliged by making everything more and more redundant,
Do you think all those extra steps are free?
I said it before. How much safety do you want to trade for lower prices? Do you want to forego your right to sue a drug company? You get EITHER safety with accountability OR low prices, you don't get both
this medical industry of our is a complete disaster and needs to crash and burn..
All countries with cheap health care are failed states. People are paying extremely high taxes in order to get treatnent . The U.S. doesn?t have to become o socialist state.
what utter bullshit!
a tiny 1 or 1.5% levy on wages from workers getting DECENT wages, is enough to fund most of it.
the option for private cover is there and discount are given for that as it eases the public burden
win , win. the poor get to be looked after adequately if not perfectly
some- is better than none.
unlike americas system where the damned insurers run the govt the hospitals and the diagnostics and inflate prices to the nth insane degreee. because?
they can
capping fees n charges to stop that happening would save sooo much money.
Sure a tinny, tinny 1-1.5% for medicines and why not another tinny 1-2% for uninsured patients and well, might as well add another tinny 2% for nutrition, since this is critical for health. And since an educated patient is a halthy patient, might as welladd another tinny 3% for education and 3% for housing and another tinny 2% for addiction treatment and another tinny 2% for prenatal care and another tinny 1% for women's health issues and another tinny 1% for AIDS research and another 1% for breast cancer research and another minuscule 3% for .......
The basic problem here is the STATE. Without the violence of government manufacturers would be free to design and sell any drug they wish and you, as the consumer would then be responsible to asses the effectiveness and safety of a particular treatment. Part of the assessment would be the reputation of the drug and the drug maker. A drug maker who makes an ineffective or dangerous drug would quickly get a bad reputation and loose their customers, just like in any other industry. A manufacturer with a good reputation and a good drug would sell its medicines like hot cakes. Look at the illegal drug market. If a pusher kills his customers by selling bad drugs, the word on the street will destry his business. Those who have a great product are sought out by other users.
The basic problem here is the STATE
Yepper.
In most cases I can imagine, this is the underlying problem. The state has very little to offer the individual.
You're the one spewing bullshit.
In Canada, (Ontario) a full 25% of ALL tax revenue, including transfer payments from the federal government, goes to "free" healthcare, not just from income tax.
Your 1 or 1.5% doesn't even come close.
Wrong. Canada is doing great
High prices draw competitors. It seems that noone understands this though since in all shortages I see people screaming about price gouging. When a hurricane comes to town and a storeowner from a neighboring state drives to sell his generators at a premium everyone screams gouging. When someone trucks in bottled water and charges double everyone screams price gouging. When the last gas station in town charges a premium everyone screams price gouging. So what is the result? Politicians set price controls and there is zero incentive for anyone to bring anything to these people. Their shortages become permanent. The gas station has a huge line and the first people in line get the gas, they all fill their tanks to the top and people who need something get none. Noone drives the bottled water to these people except FEMA two weeks later and throws a bottle next to their expired corpse at taxpayer expense. I guess it's the norm though since most people don't understand how prohibition makes illegal drugs so profitable and if they did they wouldn't be able to connect the dots with thee hurricane scenario. This is why we have a shit lawless government and our next president will be either a career politician/criminal or a TV show personality/corporatist (fascist).
High prices only draw competitors when the market is expanding. A small, FIXED sized market doesn't draw competitors becasue as soon as there is a second supplier to that fixed sized market, then each supplier will only get (say) half of that market.
Prices would have to increase to support more than one competitor.
Um, no. A small, fixed sized market can sure as hell draw competitors if the monopolist prices are so high that a competitor can undercut on price, steal FIXED market share, and still be profitable.
You are ignorant.
You are naive, and have obviously never competed in a limited, fixed size market.
And in drugs, there's a barrier to entry. They have to prove that their formulation is the same as others, and they STILL have to do annual studies and have annual licensing to SELL their drug.
If it's so profitable, why aren't you jumping at it? You could become a gazillionaire just by tapping these tiny, fixed markets.
Those barriers are not part of the market, they are the result of government interference in the market. Competition always works when markets are free.
What was that I have seen here in the ZH comments before about the soution to high prices...?
Oh yeah, the cure for high prices is high prices - or something like this.
Shkreli thinks he is a smart and privileged Jew. What he didn't realize is gays are now more protected group than Jews. He dared to mess with HIV drugs, whack lesbianlivesmatter Hillary smacked him down.
The moral of the story? Competition is good for consumers. Now we just need competing governments and we consumers would benefit.
I love it when the good guys win.
Martin Shkreli: The first guy to whack on the TPP Warning Program.
I wish him well with his unemployment claim.
Perhaps he'll get 750/month
The problem is not just the pharmaceutical companies, it's all the companies! the business model is to make as much money as possible in profits, with absolutely no care for the consumer. I know this in my experience working as a stockbroker for the big brokerage firms. The system rewards selfishness and greed and that is in all the sectors as far as I know. Why is there more greed in the USA than other countries? That is the question.
Dont like the pricing/products ?Dont use them. Problem solved
If only it were that simple. I recently completed treatment for hepatitis C with Harvoni, which the greed heads at Gilead Sciences decided to sell for over a thousand dollars per pill. The cost of the medications alone was over $100,000, but I'm here, healthy and still commenting on ZH. I could have chosen to not use Harvoni, but the alternatives were not as effective and had serious side effects.
The US is WAY down the list of countries when it comes to greed. You ain't seen nothing.
[quote]Why is there more greed in the USA than other countries? [/quote]
I answer with a question(s): HOW big is the US Govt? Is there a correlation?
it doesnt matter that the pill sells for $1. the fed gov will still pay $759......
Daraprim costs 75 pence per pill, unsibsidized, in the UK.
If you need two or more, it pays to fly to the UK just to go to the chemist.
Ford cant make a profit selling a Focus...............So they are marking up the price to $100,000,000.00
1 drug out of 10's of thousands.
Big deal
Adam Smith's invisible fist right up this parasite's ass!
You gotta love a story with a happy ending.
And horray for Imprimis, who apparently has a need to benefit society.
Hopefully, this cunt Shkreli is now so toxic that nobody on the planet will deal with him for fear of the PR shitstorm and backlash.
LOL
Dr. Adam Smith, Proctologist (and Economist)
The free market works! I'll believe it when I see it
I wonder if Mr Shkreli is scared, to a Vampire he could be easily picked him out of a crowd with his life energy in the red zone as the man fears for his pathetic life as a Big Pharma CEO, sure beats a nail gun to the head I would say. Happy Halloween Mr. Turing...I may looking for you after I finish my list of Bank execs.
This whole fiasco proves to me that bad publicity is NOT better than no publicity!
I hope this asshole gets some disease that eats his body away and the remedy can only be found somewhere in India but he needs to pay up all his belongings before he can get it. Fucker.
Changes to patent law are urgently needed.Competing products that do the exact same thing with slight differences should be allowed to foster comeptition and drive down monopolistic pricing that is rampant in the pharmaceutical industry.
Harvard educated CabalA$$LickerLiarObama took millions of $ bribe from Pharma & biotech. They want their money back.
Btw why there is less corruption in west ? Becuz they have legalized it and call it election funding ; the truth is that when a politician takes any amount from any corporate house , he/she is compromising the democracy ; and then demoncracy will rule thereafter becuz after getting elected , the politician will act for the benefit of corporates ; who will feel free to charge ANY amount from public ; public which is the owner of a nation gets duped & cheated by politicians , corporates, cabals & banksters
WESTERN DEMOCRACY IS A SHAM