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It's On: Obama Sends Destroyer To Chinese Islands, China Vows Military Response
Update: According to reports in on Monday evening, the USS Lassen has indeed sailed within 12 nautical miles of China's islands in the Spratlys.
As WSJ notes, "an American defense official confirmed Monday that the U.S. Navy ship navigated through the waters around at least one of the land masses to which China lays claim within the Spratly chain of islands in the South China Sea, crossing an area that China maintains is part of its sovereign territory."
WSJ also reiterates that this isn't likely to be a one-off event. As noted below, most "experts" believe that in order for this to be effective from a deterrence standpoint, the US will need to step up the patrols, presumably in an effort to prove to Beijing that the Pentagon is "serious", whatever that means in this context.
The ball is now squarely in China's court. The PLA has already promised to "stand up and use force" in the event its territorial sovereignty is violated. The question now is whether Beijing will back down and concede that "sovereignty" somehow means something different with regard to the islands than it does with respect to the mainland or whether Xi will stick to his guns (no pun intended) and take a pot shot at a US destroyer.
Earlier:
For anyone who might still be somehow unaware, the US is currently in a superpower staring match with both Russia and China. The conflict in Syria has put Moscow back on the geopolitical map (so to speak), creating an enormous amount of tension with Washington whose regional allies have been left to look on in horror as Russian airstrikes and an Iranian ground incursion dash hopes of ousting President Bashar al-Assad.
Meanwhile, in The South China Sea, Beijing has built 3,000 acres of new sovereign territory atop reefs in the Spratlys and although the reclamation effort itself isn’t unique, the scope of it most certainly is and Washington’s friends in the South Pacific are crying foul.
Beijing has continually insisted that it doesn’t intend to use the islands as military outposts, but the construction of runways and ports seems to tell a different story and so, Washington felt compelled to check things out over the summer by sending a Poseidon spy plane complete with a CNN crew to the area. Once the PLA spotted the plane the situation escalated quickly with the Chinese Navy telling US pilots to “Go Now!”
After that, an intense war of words developed with Defense Secretary Ash Carter insisting that the US would sail and fly anywhere it pleased and Beijing assuring the US that sailing within 12 nautical miles of the islands would prompt a harsh response from the PLA.
For weeks, the US was rumored to have been planning a freedom of navigation exercise in the Spratlys which, as we’ve pointed out several times this month, amounts to sailing by the islands just to see if China will shoot.
Now, according to CNN, Obama has given the green light and the ships may sail within 24 hours:
Just in: @USNavy prepared to sail w/i 12mi of China's manmade islands in #SouthChinaSea "w/i 24hrs", has POTUS approval -Def. Official
— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) October 26, 2015
And more from FT:
The US navy is poised to start freedom of navigation operations in the South China Sea in a high-stakes effort to push back against Chinese territorial claims over artificial islands in the disputed waters.
In a move that will enrage Beijing, the USS Lassen, a guided-missile destroyer, will sail inside the 12-nautical mile zones of two man-made islands — Subi and Mischief reefs — that China has built in the contested Spratly Island chain. A senior US defence official said it would sail through the area in the early hours of Tuesday morning.
China has repeatedly warned that it would not tolerate any effort to violate what it considers its territory. Earlier this month, a senior Chinese naval officer said the People’s Liberation Army would hand a “head-on blow” to any foreign forces that violated Chinese sovereignty. His comments came after the Financial Times reported that the US was poised to launch its operations.
The manoeuvre will mark the first time since 2012 that the US navy has sailed through the 12-nautical mile zone surrounding any islands claimed by China. It is aimed at demonstrating that Washington does not recognise any territorial claims over artificial islands in the South China Sea.
It's also worth noting that should the US manage to get away with this without sparking a shooting war with the Chinese, it now looks as though Washington is leaning toward making this a regular patrol. Here's a bit of color from Reuters out over the weekend:
A range of security experts said Washington's so-called freedom of navigation patrols would have to be regular to be effective, given Chinese ambitions to project power deep into maritime Southeast Asia and beyond.
"This cannot be a one-off," said Ian Storey, a South China Sea expert at Singapore's Institute of Southeast Asian Studies.
"The U.S. navy will have to conduct these kinds of patrols on a regular basis to reinforce their message."
But China would likely resist attempts to make such U.S. actions routine, some said, raising the political and military stakes. China's navy could for example try to block or attempt to surround U.S. vessels, they said, risking an escalation.
(USS Lassen)
Here are the latest visuals from Subi and Mischief (the two islands mentioned above):
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this borders on the insane. Here we have both Washington and Beijing risking an outright military confrontation over what amount to a couple of sandcastles and while there's probably some truth to the contention that China has plans for the islands that go beyond growing plants, building lighthouses, and raising pigs, it's not as though the PLA is going to invade The Philippines so at the end of the day, this looks like another example of what Vladimir Putin recently suggested is evidence that the world is losing its collective mind.
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With all the God Darn organizations and billions upon billions being spend, does noone control a 'map' or listing of territorial waters that is current and accurate and everyone can agree upon?? That should be the first rule of business for creating a global base of players (aka UN, G20, etc, etc).
Dumb of me to think something so simple could be overlooked. Now, we have to go out to 'prove' what is and what isn't terriotrial waters with the threat of war. If this is the case, can we stop all payments to these organizations....starting with the UN?
Why don't you quit paying taxes to the war mongers US?
WEll because they have lots of guns and I am but one man.
If enough of us said "NO" on 4/15 they could do fuck all about it.
They know it. But most of us apparently don't.
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
Ben Franklin knew it. It worked then. Just sayin..
What the hell are we going to do with that piece of shit tugboat? They drug out the scrap iron for this operation. God bless the crew.
Why sink and obsolete tin can. The PLA is waiting for a juicy carrier to try to slip pass.
that "obsolete tin can" is an ABMDS platform that's more than capable of taking out a DF-21 and has already proven it can get Putin's panties in a twist at will... go ahead and try China, see what happens...
yeah, you downvoters think it can't be done... if so, explain why Putin needs smelling salts every time an Arleigh Burke comes anywhere near eastern Europe... bluster and bullshit for days because they know they have no counter for it and likely never will... hell, Russia was going to pull out of START just because the damn things exist, let alone where they're deployed...
Defendo Libertas a Mare... bitchez
we'll steam through that fucking area any time we like and the Chinese can go kick rocks...
This activity is a few years too late. When the reclamation first started is when a presence should have occurred. It is a lot easier to stop military instalations from being a threat before they have been built. Now that the reefs have been fully claimed and are nearing completion with military equipment, the presence of a US destroyer only increases the likelihood of an accidnet. With all 3 world powers facing economic turbulence with potential for a death spiral, these activities should worry everyone.
first, the headline of this article is completely misleading as these aren't Chinese islands... they may be occupied by China, but that doesn't make the claim any more valid... we've been through this dance already...
second, it's clear under the international law of the sea that turning features like Subi Reef et al into artificial islands does not imply any rights to territorial waters around them, something the U.S. mission is designed to underline in no uncertain terms... and, will continue to do so... the Chinese can bitch about US "muscle flexing" all they want but the plain fact is these are _international waters_ and their claim is utterly invalid, and they know it...
last, the Lessen has been cruising around in the general area since May and will continue to do so... you _will_ see more missions like this and it wouldn't surprise me if we see at least one "thunder run" of a full carrier group through the general area once USS Theodore Roosevelt finishes resupply at Changi...
stupid fucking Chinese with your stupid fucking ideas... you're primed to get a king sized US Navy foot up your ass in short order, you'll be lucky if we don't send a carrier group through the Taiwan Straits again just to show you who is fucking boss, just like the last time we did it... quit bitching about trouble _of your own making_ and pull the fuck out while you still have some face to save... losers...
And if the USA did this with islands you will be saying why the USA has the right.
Stupid fucking Americns with your sutpid fucking ideas...a bankrupt nation with a debt enslaved people who no longer have rights or hopes except to be canon fodder for the 0.1% that raped the USA, which you are no doubt enjoying with free KY.
Takes a single nuclear device to detonate over NYC to change the world and end the USA's section of human history.
Dumb cunt American's always assume this and that but in the end murdered hundreds of thousands, possible millions of people world wide in attempts to maintaiin hegemony, which deaths no doubt your support, as it helps the 0.1%
So they will assume again in their extreme arrogance, and lack of care for the American people whom you and they hate anyway, and that assumption will blow up in Obama's face once again.
The thing is mosst people world wouldnt care if China sank an American navy ship, and would think they deserved it. People are sick of Mafia USA. Especially Europe who now are enjoying refugees, the results of more extreme stupidity of the USA iin the middle east. There is only one rule, whatever the USA tries on the world stage it well and truly stuffs up and causes hudnreds of thousands of deaths, but at least they are not banksters..
>>Takes a single nuclear device to detonate over NYC to change the world and end the USA's section of human history.
Do you have any idea how much death and destruction the US would release over that?
We've stomped all over the Middle East for 3,000 dead citizens. Nuke a city and the planet will be missing civilizations and continental regions when we're done.
OH no ... DF-21's against a carrier .... Big fucking deal. The USA's high cards aren't even visible on the table yet.
Kina, you're a fucking moron... maybe if the US decided to terraform islands out of nowhere and then have the audacity to claim that they're sovereign territory then you might have an argument, but the US doesn't and you don't... go crawl back in your hole where you belong...
also, don't try to threaten any US citizen with nukes... we lived with that sword of Damocles over our head far longer than anyone gives credit for, and the rest of the world knows _exactly_ what would happen if anyone were to be stupid enough to try it... we're the only nation on Earth that fields a full strength nuclear triad, so yeah go ahead and try and see what happens... idiot
The fudgepacker is dumber than a box of rocks.
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/military-priorities/
To avoid completely the high probability of losing a war, we should abolish the military entirely.
I project at least a 15% cost savings to US business by removing the obvious crony-capitalism costs, the US could dominate world business again and provde enough jobs.
ditto
Obama is only doing as instructed - you don't get into politics in the first place unless you can demonstrate your allegiance to your owners.
And if you do happen to buck the system you end up in the ground next to a few other presidents who actually had balls.
It's only one destroyer . . . but then again . . . a finger in the eye is only one finger.
I prefer the Kinks rendition.
Paranoia will destroy ya
There's a timed device inside of me I'm a self-destructing man!
We'll know when it's on. It ain't on.
I'm afraid not.
Behind that ship likely lies an armada loaded for bear.
China needs to be very, very careful here, as I'm confident the U.S. will not back down.
China will need to recognize that creating islands in disputed waters doesn't resolve anything, and either someone restrains themselves or war escalates quickly. The last thing anyone needs is another Cuban missile crisis.
We were lucky last time...
m
well, but this time it's the U.S. that's sailing over close to their place. So it would seem that we would be the provocateurs .... maybe we shouldn't do that in order to avoid another Cuban missile crisis, you think?
I agree it's a provocation.
Ideally, the regional claimants need to sit down with an international panel to weigh the claims, and develop a solution. If the U.S. didn't have the international record of whack-a-dictator and, hegemonic meddling that it does, it may have been able to broker an honest resolution.
As some of the claimants are also allies (Philippines), or seekers of closer U.S. ties (Vietnam...who would've thought...), we are not unbiased in China's eyes. Further, China senses our OWN power trip here as well, and we are not trusted.
We should also remember that the Ruling Party of China also has it's observers too, and given the economic difficulties at home, also needs to be seen as strong and decisive, especially against someone like us. They are a rising power who aren't rapidly modernizing their military for nothing.
Respect for their rise is being demanded, especially within waters that contain their name.
We, on the other hand, recognize that possession is nine-tenths of the law, and a bigger Spratley build-out soon makes the Chinese claim that much more difficult to challenge. Effectively, they might gain squatters rights to something that wouldn't even exist if they hadn't "created" it...first.
Increasingly, world power will balance THREE ways, instead of the Cold War two, and the one of the recently-ended interregnum since the fall of the Berlin Wall. We passed on the Russian-Syrian interdiction thus far, mostly because WE caused the rise of the radical ISIS threat. Regardless of Assad, it tough to chastise Russia for aiding their ally, while tackling the mangled mess our departure vacuum created. So...that one simmers for now.
But the Spratley thing is completely different. OUR allies are watching THEIR big brother take on a local bully seeking to be somebody, now that they're all grown up. Very different; very dangerous.
My hope is, the new paradigm forces us to start thinking more about sharing power AND responsibility (something WE don't do well) by first showing both Russia and China a little respect and deference. We're going to have to start talking to each other at the table of real diplomacy, where the chairs are at the same height.
We are not the only ones who have an idea of how the world should work anymore.
m
Will the destroyer dock ? That would be the act.
No.
It's important to remember this is about the projection of power, and the claimed impediment China is becoming to navigation of international waters.
China has raised a land mass in formerly open sea.
Reefs contested or not, before China began forming what are now islands, it had no claim to that open sea as sea, only a disputed claim to the reefs beneath it.
By raising a new land mass above those disputed reefs, it now claims that land mass has a new "territorial water" boundary around it. It built the islands, and claims ownership of them, AND the territorial water, sine qua non, around them.
Further, it defines that boundary to extend for 12 nautical miles beyond the lands end of those new islands.
China does NOT appear to be interested in claiming ownership of the whole of the South China Sea, something WE seem to be intimating.
As long as we stay away from THOSE waters, the Navy can expect to sail without incident.
The islands now exist, and unless we intend to sink them, they will continue to exist. It's too late to stop that (and we HAD to have known this almost from the beginning. If the disputed reefs were THAT important to our claimant allies and partners in the region, why did we wait until they were built to raise this issue?).
Since the ownership of the reefs are in question, it should be a matter settled between the claimant parties, and NOT by us through a dangerous and unnecessary show of force designed to induce capitulation by China. That ain't gonna happen.
Bottom line: if we sail our ships in undisputed waters, we'll be fine. If we don't, sooner or later, there's going to be big trouble.
Unless we hydrogen bomb these new islands off the map, they'll remain as new land masses...WITH their own territorial waters.
We could, perhaps, aid the other claimants to the disputed reefs to build their own new islands on other reefs in the same general area (good for the goose and gander philosophy). They could then make the same claim as China.
But short of those outcomes, and without Chinese capitulation, I see no other solution, this late to the party.
m
I calculated 2 aircraft carrier battle groups heading that way, there might also be a third. 1-2weeks tops
Update:
If reports of our sailing within the Chinese 12 nautical mile limit, without incident (thus far) are accurate, then it would indeed appear China has been careful, and restrained themselves.
I'm proud of our sailors; they only do their duty, and have bravely done it well.
We'll likely test this limit again, and who knows how it goes from here.
m
Sucks to be crew on the sacrificial lamb for WW3.
Well what do you expect when you sign your body away to the people who planned an executed 9/11? You can take your mindless love of country patriotism & HOO-RAH! to the bottom of Davy Jones' Locker.
Fuck You scumbag.
Sure, fuck 'im. But he's still right.
It's called natural selection.
Sounds like somebody sold his soul to the banksters for 6 years of shitty pay.
In the Navy, you can sail the seven seas.
In the Navy, you can get down on your knees.
Mercenaries aren't there for principles. That's for the militia defending its own homelands and families.
Mercenaries defending corporate interests do nothing for my freedom.
If you gave a shit about your oath of enlistment and were really about defending freedom, the district of corruption would be under siege by ground troops, getting pounded by both artillery and naval guns, and be blockaged from any sea-based reinforcement dig?
The fact that none of that is happening despite egregious violations of the law and trust of the American people tells me that mercenaries care more about their paychecks and pensions than lofty ideals like freedom or honoring a sacred oath. Hence the reasoning behind the founders' idea that standing armies are bad. Mmmkay?
I understand why a naive 18 year old could be deceived (or conscripted and killed like my kin) but for grown men who re-enlist after becoming aware? They'll get no sympathy from me.
downvote.
Nah they wanna go to college to do afro-american studies, womens studies and liberal arts. They aint patriots theyre desperate souls.
"Sucks to be crew on the sacrificial lamb for WW3"
Yeah, like it sucks getting droned at a hospital or wedding in the ME.
They knew that they signed up for more than a Navy Lifestyle and 401k.
Truth be told... they are paid soldiers (Mercs with only one employer), not conscripts. So no tears here.
true their victims deserve far more sympathy, but they deserve some.
the mindfuck the elite put down convincing them of the greater good they can do combined with the hideous economic reality awaiting most youth today evokes a twinge.
False flag time?!
Everything going as planned by our overlords.
Which overlords?
The Ants or the Reptilians?
This time I think it's a fungus in the Cordyceps family.
I'm going to need a link on the Ant overlord thing.
The Reptillian overlord thing, I'm good with...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PLls02gOU
According to the Global Banking Cartel, China has more billionaires and therefore deserves to win the war.
Nah Nothing will happen. They'll shake each others 'hand' more than twice and move along. How many Chinese restaurants and properties have you seen raided here over the last year or ten? One minor Bus Line was shut down between Boston and NY (for safety reasons), but nothing else. Much ado about nothing especially when chinese ships are coming here to dock. Watch those renewables guys....
Fuck me, just when you thought you had heard everything before we get this.
One miscalculation here and the SHTF in spectacular fashion...
Let's get it over with already. These fuckers are hell bent on starting a war regardless of facts, logic, even self-preservation. I even have a slight suspicion China & Russia wouldn't even have to fire nukes. They will just release the documents that they hacked from the DOD that prove 9/11 was an inside job. Then they will just kick back and watch the US burn itself to the ground.
Tool.
are you sure?
whose hand is that on your handle?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsoY3AIRUGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhROd7Jt3-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgM6hjNedE0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj_AL4OlmHc&feature=iv&src_vid=rnbMjAN7B...
http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticl...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVHstSrC1CQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gORu-68SHpE.
USS Lassen expendable pawn in Pentagons new how big is America's penis foreign policy misadventures
The gave all the condoms to ISIS so somebody is gonna get fucked.
What does Obama care.
He likes killing people.
because he's good at it.
correction
because he's really good at it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/03/obama-drones-double-down_n_4208...
Here's a blast from the past, 2009. From Wiki;
On 15 February 2009 at 12:25 pm, Lassen collided with a Japanese 14-ton pleasure boat in Yokosuka harbor. Four people fishing on the pleasure boat, which was at anchor, were reportedly uninjured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Lassen_(DDG-82)
The guy on the right was relieved of command 2 months later.
http://www.c7f.navy.mil/imagery/high-res/2009/04-April/090423-N-2013O-10...
Then he got another destroyer, James E. Williams, last year after Calloway was relieved. He's now a captain. Nuttin' like gov. employment.
http://hamptonroads.com/2014/09/navy-relieves-james-e-williams-commandin...
It's a party boat! Cha-cha-cha!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_James_E._Williams
In December 2009, 1½ months after the ship returned to Norfolk from a six-month cruise to the Mediterranean and Arabian seas, nine crewmembers were given non-judicial punishment for fraternization. Five of the nine were male chief petty officers while the other four were female junior enlisted sailors.
Here's the Lassen's current CO.
http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ddg82/Pages/Bio1.aspx#.Vi6jftWrRww
Affirmative Action for the motherfucking win!
Don't get cocky.
Eh...
"over what amount to a couple of sandcastles"
No?
This is about control over any and all oil/gas resources in the contested area. The sandcastles are territorial markers and strategic points for China. This is China taking back control over its backyard and kicking the US screaming and hollering out the door.
The US Navy will get totally obliterated if they try this shit. China will make a point out of this and they will be in their right in regards to international law. A military incursion of their waters is an act of war by the US.
it's not their water, they are in complete violation of international law and to top it off, the brown water chinese navy is a joke. let's make this very simple, if china even thinks about firing a shot, it will be ended. period.
Let me guess you are the international police ?
Hope you got deep pockets, do you recall what McArthur said when he bumped into Chinese army north of Korea?
Yeah, he said: where can I pick up some righteous Dim Sum?
Look at a map. China's claims are dog do-do.
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china%E2%80%99s-south-china-sea-claims
Jstanely011 - Who cares what their claims are? We aren't their fucking neighbors. Its not our job to care. Which is more important to the US and its citizens? The Spratly Islands or the invasion of Muslims that's coming our way thanks to Obomit?
Mexico turned Muslim? Eh...
Like the British Empire before it, the American Empire will fight for Freedom of the Seas. If we could sail yesterday where we like in what the Philippines is now calling the East Philippine Sea, we can sail there today. Whether ZHers like it or don't like it, that's the way it is.
"Freedom of the Seas?
I don't even have the freedom to cross the road where I want to.
indeed. used to be able to fly without taking off your shoes and getting an involuntary rub down.
Even is it is just a sandcastle, they will get control of an "Exclusive Economic Zone" 200 nautical miles around it by UN convention... am i rite?
No. It doesn't count if you turn a reef into an island.
I would have liked to have seen Montana.
I'm sure the USS Lusitani . . . Lassan has been properly briefed about the risks.
What the Fuck is Obozzo gonna do with a Destroyer? Retake Omaha Beach? He really is playing Chinese Checkers while the world plays Chess. I'm so embarressed...
and so you should be (and so would your 4th grade school teacher)
it's embarrassed!
The Lusitania......
How many lines will be snort. I mean draw?
US Citizen: "Hey, isn't the world economy collapsing due to government/corporate/banking corruption and greed?"
Obama: "LOOK OVER THERE! CHINESE SQUIRREL!"
"Not to put too fine a point on it, but this borders on the insane." Why? Countries should just be allowed to build islands and claim land in international waters? (Prepares for US is an evil empire and China should be able to do whatever the fuck it wants comments).
That's how territorial claims work.
This claim should be disputed.
Yes, in an International Court, not by gunboats.
Great idea. But China refuses to submit to international arbitration. Now what?
"One reason Southeast Asians find it difficult to accept Chinese territorial claims is that they carry with them an assertion of Han racial superiority over other Asian races and empires. Says Jay Batongbacal of the University of the Philippines law school: 'Intuitively, acceptance of the nine-dash line is a corresponding denial of the very identity and history of the ancestors of the Vietnamese, Filipinos, and Malays; it is practically a modern revival of China’s denigration of non-Chinese as ‘barbarians’ not entitled to equal respect and dignity as peoples...'
"Since there are six claimants to various atolls, islands, rocks, and oil deposits in the South China Sea, the Spratly Islands disputes are, by definition, multilateral disputes requiring international arbitration. But Beijing has insisted that these disputes are bilateral in order to place its opponents between the anvil of its revisionist history and the hammer of its growing military power."
http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/historical-fiction-china%E2%80%99s-south-china-sea-claims
Good perspective. Thanks.
It's like passing the TPP. They'll figure out if It's legal after they build them.
Going long on beans and bottled water, anyone? For a few dollars more, https://youtu.be/0JPnR7C8mZQ
Crew was probably told they were going off to party in Bangkok. Good luck. Make sure you live-feed everything to Youtube when you enter the China South Sea, you brave patriots.
" Hi Sairor, want to taste my sushi...."
"Hey Barry, looks like your ship just hit a reef. Soo solly..."
Send McStain over to solve it
It is not about a sand castle. It is about shipping lanes, air overflights, and the greater rights of local nations- Philippines, VietNam, Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan. China does not own that water.
"China does not own that water." China does not own that water? We'll see! That's what this pending Mexican standoff is all about, to find out if China really does own that water.
You only own what you can defend
So...where are the brave Vietnamese and Philippine ships sailing to join the US ship?
it's their fucking property for 2,000 years - ask Genghis Khan
The Caribbean has been called the Lake of the USA - what does that mean to you?
Genghis Khan was Mongolian, not Chinese.
It's like the Jim Belushi speech in Stripes.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Perl Harbor?"
But let's ask Genghis Khan. Maybe these islands should be claimed by Mongolia.
Maybe we can ask Khan Noonien Singh while we are at it.
Also Chaka Khan so she does not feel left out.
But who have they intimidated or threatened to date? I haven't heard of any incidents. Got any links?
http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/is-indonesia-beijings-next-target-in-the-south-china-sea/
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/china-threatens-philippines-after-us-reaffirms-commitment-mutual-defense-treaty-manila
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-24709148
http://stevenmcollins.com/WordPress/china-threatens-war-vs-vietnam-and-the-phillipines-new/
I got tired.
Vietnam is allowing US ships to use ports. Japan is building offensive weapons.
This proves that the Vietnamese are the dumbasses of the Asian continent. I guess they miss the 1960s and need a little more lovin'.
Exactly right, Truth Eater, but some folks here don't really want the truth if it casts the USA in a favorable light.
Truth is, China has overreached here and it's not the first time (Tibet, Mongolia, Taiwan, Vietnam). The fact that the US also overreaches doesn't cancel that out - it merely illustrates that both China and the USA have imperial ambitions.
Contrast the Chinese approach to the way North Sea oil was developed. Nobody made unreasonable claims, no one threatened anyone, nobody went to war. They all sat down and thrashed out a reasonable arrangement to the satisfaction of all parties.
Many people here fall into the false dichotomy trap - USA bad, China good. Frankly, they should visit China, and I don't mean the guided tour. I traveled the country myself and saw first hand what the place was like. For all the progress they've made, it's mostly a veneer to cover up some very deep inequalities and injustices, and as much as I object to the way the USA runs its affairs, it's really no contest where I'd rather live.
The Chinese Empire built the freaking Great Wall to keep the Mongonlians out, but now to rationalize their rule over Mongolia, they claim that Ghengis was Chinese all along. Farcical, really. Obviously they've modified Mao, "History grows out of the barrel of a gun."
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun - Chairman Mao
Fixed it for ya, get your quotes right, Stan ...
Correctomundo on the Tibetan & Mongolia confiscation...
Agreed they've overreached ebear but it's the big man on campus reaction of the US that's freaking everybody out.
Truth Eater, it's about who gets to be the biggest, baddest Fish Eater.
Islands become extension of Economic Territory and protecting shipping lanes. And that's the problem of the local nations, not the USSA. Unless it's in the TPP -- which makes it a different kettle of fish...
Here we go again, the 'indispensable and exceptional' lunatics trying to start another war for profits and their zero sum game.
Until the US is defeated, exhausted, or the American people rise up and put an end to it more millions will perish.
For the neocons and neoliberals all I wish is a rope and lamp post.
Sale around the 12 mile limit, why is that so difficult?
US go to hell.
Perhaps the Russians will do some SU-24 flybys.
What frightened the USS Donald Cook so much in the Black Sea?
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Again, how fucking childish and small brained terrorist USSA are, I hope they get the fuck blown out of them, but I expect China will have other plans, they are not mad like USSA terrorists, easterners have cooler heads, as N.Korea always proves. Perhaps the ship will be disabled, permanently, perhaps it will become a reef, we will see.
Ot perhaps they'll offload even more dollar "assets".
My guess is that this approaching destroyer has the same speed as the gold transports to Germany.
Those are some nice low interest rates. Would be a shame if anything happened to them.
The modern equivalent of George C Marshall " if china invades the west coast they won't make past Vegas without aids"
Of course today the Chinese can come in and buy all the RE they can afford even in Vegas.
Maybe the Chinese will just fill the american boat with yellow seamen.
Keep fucking around and Obama is about to get his panties tied in a knot and handed to him.
By Reggie.....
He will enjoy that; perhaps you uncovered the reason?
Enough of the chest beating, dick waving and Kabuki* theater.
Enough Foreplay already! Let's get this party started!
* Yes, I know that Kabuki is Japanese. Writer's artistic license.
watch the volatility "spike" to unseen levels as china fires the first financial missle of mass destruction.
China is not going to damage their export market or the currency they recieve in return for trade, don't be daft.
These days I go out of my way to NOT buy Chinese products. It's difficult, but it can be done. When they clean up their act (labor laws, environmental standards, respect for copyrights and so forth) I'll be happy to trade with them. In the meantime, I shop elsewhere.
I don't buy anything from Israel either, but that one's easy. The only product I've ever seen from there was a jar of kosher marmalade...LOL.
So your telling me your PC, mobile phone, wireless router, gateway and other internet devices are made in America and you dont use Intel (made in Israel) or AMD (made in Taiwan) processors?
Still using your Apple IIc and a 6,200 baud modem?
You ought to run for office because you're full of shit.
Did he say anything about only buying American??
I too avoid buying from those 2 countries.
Intel does make chips in the US you know. They have a huge facility in Oregon.
Yes, sometimes buying stuff made in China cannot be avoided, but many times it can, with some effort.
Maybe China's shot across the bow could be a massive sell off of US treasuries.
Both these countries have nothing to gain to start fighting with each other.
China built the islands, so that makes them theirs. Certainly the other countries may contest this but not the US.
I'd be interested to see what happens when WWIII gets priced into the VIX. Horror.
Celebrating at MIC HQ then.
They don't call them destroyers because they destroy stuff, they call them destroyers because they aremeant to get destroyed.
If Pentagon has a good ERP system, they order a new destroyer at the same moment this one gets its sailing orders.
Yes but the JIT supply chain sources its products from China.
Maybe we can save time and environmental damage by playing virtual build and destroy.
We send the Chinese money and then they do nothing. We all pretend that they have built our new destroyer and then destroyed it.
Putin just reminded us that navies are so last war, what with missiles that fly 1500 km and hit targets within 20 meters. So the 'visit' by a navy warship is really a very small escalation in the battle for primacy in resources. [all wars are resource wars, now claimed by bankers, so all wars are now banker wars...]
Conversely, one little missile cruiser now packs the power of a WWII battleship, so things could escalate quickly, although I doubt this particular bit of kabuki theatre is intended to do more than warm the rhetoric of both populations a tiny bit closer to accepting some kind of limited war soon. The question is, how do you keep a friendly fist fight from escalating when the participants are all carrying concealed?
Fishhawk
You realize that we've had cruise missile technology since the 1980's right?
Except ours fly into your window from 2,000 miles away. A 20 meter miss is 1970's tech.
Ours? Who are you?
Oil.
I really wish people would not ascribe so much decision-making power to this president... The teleprompter, feet-on-the-desk half the time, attending 9 holes of the other half, and people really think this man is calling the shots...?
Couple of thousand acre sand lot. Really very small. Good luck defending it during a war or major weather calamity. Really surprised USA is interested but I guess they gotta support their Vassal states that might be concerned.
This is amazing! Another brilliant idea that will turn end the same as the rest of Obama's failed International policies.
I hope they have McCain and Grahms ass tied to the front of that ship when they enter the 12 mi!
Bla bla, only few days ago we read here that China`s ships landed in US and were cooperating on some farce show. If there will be any military conflict its because they agreed on it upfront.
Brandon...?
There is so much tension between China and The US, things that make you say hmm....
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-23/three-chinese-warships-dock-flo...
Ship ought to be boarded, relieved of its ammo and sent on its merry way!
'Let that be a good lassen to you'!
Which is a more effective (or dangerous...) weapon for China:
- Russian modified DF-21's?
- 20,000+ tons of physical gold on display for the world to see?
It's funny that these murderous politicians think they will survive WWIII.
Hey, it's been Obama's Navy for almost 8 years - what are they going to do, lecture them on LGBT diversity?
Ha ha ha - Vlad-o has lost his mind to a larger degree than anybody else. But at least he's keeping his pet tyrant warm and cozy in Syria.
Ha Ha Ha - FUCK OFF SHILL !
Currency wars, then real wars.
I seriously doubt the entire MIC/Pentagon/Military will obey Obozo's orders at this point. He may have some support remaining but can't be much.
Gulf of Tonkin false flag coming.
Billy, I just thought of the same scenario. We (TPTB) may just use the same weapon that we used to cause the port explosions in China against our own destroyer, then blame China. That could most certainly kick off WWIII, with full support of the sheeple.
China has my permission to blow the warships out-of-the-water.
Go China!
Down with Imperialist dogs of America!