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Blatant Gold/Silver Manipulation Reflects The Complete Corruption Of The U.S. System
Submitted by Dave Kranzler via Investment Research Dynamics,
The morning of the FOMC announcement on Wednesday (Oct 28) gold was up $14 overnight, close to $1080 and the cartel’s dreaded 200 day moving average. The “premise” was that the market was expecting another rate hike deferral.
A friend called me that morning and I told him to not get excited because when the FOMC policy decision hits the tape, they will annihilate gold and push the S&P 500 up toward 2100. I was only 10 pts off on the S&P call, as the S&P 500 closed at 2090, up an absurd 24 points.
Gold was taken to the cleaners:
What’s incredible is not one mainstream media analyst or reporter questions this market action. If the premise behind the gold sell-off was a “hawkish” FOMC statement and the threat of a rate hike in December (yawn), then the exact same premise should have cause a big sell-off in stocks. Since when does the threat of tighter monetary policy not hit the stock market?
Just to recount the play-by-play in gold, the moment the FOMC announcement hit the tape, the Comex computer system was bombarded with sell orders. At this point in the trading day, the ONLY gold/silver market open is the Comex computer Globex system. In the first 30 minutes 29.6k contracts were unloaded – 2.6 million paper ounces. In the entire hour after the announcement 50.5k contracts were unloaded – 5.1 million ounces. Note that the Comex is showing around 200k ounces to be available for delivery.
The blatant, unfettered manipulation and intervention in the gold and silver market is sponsored by the Fed and the U.S. Treasury, executed by the big bullion banks and fully endorsed by the CFTC.
Dan Norcini vomited up a theory that the hit on Wednesday was a product of long side (hedge fund) liquidation. That view proved to be utter scatological regurgitation from an analyst who’s analysis and views have gone completely off the rails. As it turns out, open interest increased by over 4,000 contracts on Wednesday. So much for that “long liquidation” idiocy.
The manipulation of the gold and silver market is a nothing but a product of complete systemic corruption. The only way that the Fed and the politicians can claim that the economy is “fine” and QE “worked” is to make sure that the one piece of obvious evidence which would say otherwise is kept highly restrained.
I’ve told colleagues for years that the only way the elitists will let the Comex default, causing gold and silver to launch in price toward Pluto, is when they know they can no longer support their fraud.
If I’m wrong, how else to do you explain the fact that the front-running candidate to be the next President of the United States is openly a criminal and traitor who should be devoting her entire resource base toward defending herself from being throw in jail forever? This person, by the way, issues a statement today giving the U.S. economy an “A.”
On a positive note, I do believe that this country is in its 9th inning and there will be no extra innings in this game. Gold and silver do appear to be back in an uptrend, with a lot of pressure from the part of the world that demands physical delivery.
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EVERYTHING IN THE U.S. SYSTEM - HEAD TO TOE - IS COMPLETELY CORRUPT.
U2 had the right idea before they started making trash musick...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmuhR3gqxZM
Slightly off topic, butt… ;-)
American Pharaoh has won the Breeders Cup!!!
What a beautifully “exceptional” sport – a midget Crazy-glued to a horse/donkey/porcupine.
BTW, do all LOOSER horses get a shiny Participation Cup as well? We don’t want any horses feelin’ bad, do we? ;-)
Looney
There will be a point when people realize that bonds, particularly government bonds are not a safe haven asset. This will coincide with market volatility which equities won’t like. At that point precious metals will retake market share as the preferred safe haven asset as explained here.
Funny thing about Americans and PM's, eventually everyone gets thrown under the bus and no one understands why.
strong dollar policy:
manipulate pm
bomb non-aligned countries
treat income tax truthers like they did irwin schiff
Gata has been documenting for years the manipulation in the PM markets (all available for free), yet has had little success penetrating the brains running the MSM. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that this story wasn't followed. This is just another topic added to the list of taboo subjects that the MSM won't seriously touch, such as Obama's multiple scandals and UFOs.
>>... MSM won't seriously touch, such as Obama's multiple scandals and UFOs.
Ofcourse if the suggestion that yellow is manipulated into red then what's that say about UFO's?
We're all headed to the bottom of exter's pyramid eventually.
I think that exceptional accomplishment qualifies him for Sec. of State.
Put him out to stud as an excuse to fuck the world...
... I think that exceptional accomplishment qualifies him for Sec. of State.
The midget or the lame Kerry he rode in? ;-)
Looney
Either will do. Or both.
"What difference, at this point, does it make?"
The horse of course! ????
...the horse of (the) course?
...the hoarse of coarse?
Must leave The United States to win the Melbourne Cup on Tuesday as some sort of omen bet. 20/1 or so is my type of odds.
The problem is that their ends justify their means.
Their ends are not my ends.
Piss on'em
200 day MA 1080???
1180 methinks?
What is most surprising is that no-onme has broken ranks within the oligarchy in the last 2 months that the comex registered pile has been sitting at 200k oz or less and scooped it up
Think about it - someone - or a collusion of someones - need only muster $200 million or thereabouts to crack it wide open
Why would anyone wanting to accumulate physical do that?
at some point yer investment strategy should change from endless accumulation of an underpriced assett to the realisation of the fair price of it
True and sad...
1176. They would just cash settle and manipulate things around beween banks to keep contol. They won't le her go that easy.
The corrupt system is kept from being discovered by the masses by 'controlling the canary in the coal mine'. First hide it (fake statistics) and deny everything: No, that canary is not dead it is just pining for the fjords.
So when you get frostbite you have to cut off the limb since our whole body has frostbite what should we do?
Great stuff! Good to see Dave's work here. He's on our side and a great writer.
Keep it up Dave!
The spread went to shit on silver.
The scale of it is amazing. And it sure looks global to me.
Everbody plays along untill they don't.
There a plenty of repatriations of gold going on but for national security they all keep it in the dark.
The US probably knows most but so many games are being played that it's almost impossible to keep track of them all.
But in the end, every magician stops performing his trick when they can't fully control it anymore and his trick is at risk of being exposed.
Then the magician diappears in a cloud of smoke.
And nobody cares about the magician actually, it's all about the tricks.
The pledge, the turn and the finale.
Not everybody plays along, for example... Dave Kranzler.
Even though he "knew" gold would be hit on the FOMC announcemnt, he passed on the "free money" short bandwagon.
If someone at the FED wanted to surpress the price gold, at minimal cost, what could be more effective than perpetuating stories about .gov intervention with bottomless pockets. Between cross asset correlations (SPX-GLD isn't "working" right now anyway) and brain dead lemmings who couldn't develop an original trading strategy to save their portfolios? It's easy money... until it isn't.
I demand physical delivery. You can't touch it, you don't own it.
Google is <-paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks. Its the most-financialy rewarding I've had. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it...
•••••••>>>> www.Onlinejobs100.Com
You must be stealing Range Rovers for that price. By the way, your sister sucked cock for $97 and sent you a check.
I think "Range Rover" is code for her dirt road activities.
Fuck off
Google is <-paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks. Its the most-financialy rewarding I've had. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it...
WOW, $8752 in 4 weeks.
You really have no idea who you're fucking with here, do you?
demographics check 101, moron
PMs are an investment in Central Bank failure. When the most ridiculous shills against gold like Dan Norcini admit manipulation then you will know that CONfidence has been lost by the sheep. It may be soon because even Gartman now recognizes PM manipulation.
http://gata.org/node/15903
Judging by the amount of obnoxious trolls that now inhabit the Silver Doctors website, it appears guys like Dave Kranzler are over the target.
Andy Hoffman absolutely nails it in this podcast with old ZHer Turd Ferguson. Both of them give Tyler and ZH a big thumbs up at the end.
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/podcast/7242/tfmr-podcast-friday-october-30
SD is a joke. So much BS is posted on that site I'm surprised it's still going.
Carry on
Turd really blew it by keeping his head up his ass about 9/11. Lost a lot of supporters.
Also Occupation Wall Street. He wrote how unamerican there were instead of seeing them as potential allies. The pissed off left had a lot in common with the pissed off right. It seemed to me a 1980's Republican view of the world and I did not need it. He's good at charts but that can be found elsewhere.
Everybody looking in the rear view mirror when the crash threats (like anyone knows who drives a car) are to be seen through the windshield. We have a new buyer in town for paper assets: these guys *never* get a margin call because they print up margin in "unlimited" quantities in their basements.
Kuroda owns 50% of Japanese equity ETF issuance, on his way to 100% by 2017. They can stave off the big reset for a long, long time, "longer than you can stay solvent". Fixed income can roll off their balance sheets when it matures, and their holding period for equities (like Uncle Warren) could be "forever".
CBs holding equities is the equivalent of Communism; but comrades it's not the kind Bernie is talking about: no soup for you unless you're in the Matrix.
"longer than you can stay solvent"
Only because I will die one day, but my family will continue with the wealth. You've been brainwashed. PMs do not follow that rule. They can be held for generations with no loss of solvency. That little quote applies to central bank printed debt only. This is FACT, not theory.
Okay so some day one of your ancestors (if they arent obliterated in global nuclear war) will have their wealth preserved by your sound judgement today. I can't disagree with that reasoning. But HAL would certainly be labeled a troll for his sticking to the facts that today set the price of PMs. The SD website has been calling for financial collapse and Gold/Silver price ascention almost daily for the past 4+ years. Truthfully, the only trolls on that website are the article contributors that continue to publish pure BS on a weekly basis that serves no purpose whatsoever other than to entice novices to buy PMs with both hands NOW because the end of the financial world as we know it is just a couple days away. And now many those "stackers" have a bitter taste in their mouth because they believed the BS and now their PMs are worth much less than they paid, and they are praying for a miracle that will let them unload the "stacks" and just break even. If the shysters that are promoting PMs were honest with their target customers, they would stop with all the BS and stick to the honest facts as they exist today. Doomsday is NOT just around the corner, and PMs can truly be controlled by various means by the PTB for a VERY LONG TIME. That is not a statement by a troll, it is a statement by someone who is not swayed by the hype either by the mainstream media or .gov, or by the carnival barkers peddling PMs.
"PMs can truly be controlled by various means by the PTB for a VERY LONG TIME."
They lost control in the 30s. They lost control again in 1971. "A very long time" appears to be about 40 years. It is now overdue and the Asians agree.
You don't think they lost control in 2000/2001? I do. And they didn't regain control until they had the tools put in place after the "crisis" of 2008/9. Now that GAAP is out the window, and endless money printing is the norm practically everywhere in the world, it could be "a very long time" before TPTB lose control once again. Especially when every major currency - including Asian currencies - relies on the convertability of paper and digits into real assets. We are a hundred years overdue for the return of sound money, but with all the major CBs working in concert not to upset the apple cart, it's not going to happen anytime soon. When the next financial crisis happens, PMs will get smashed just like last time. That will be the very first priority of ALL the CB's, since none want to lose the ability to print wealth for themselves.
Sad but true. I've mined gold most of my life and am reconciled to living on low prices...
until ????????
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don't believe that endless money printing everywhere can continue for a very long time. It's an exponential function and the world is in the blowout phase right now. Unless it's different this time which is very unlikely and given how Central bankers are boxed in now it's a slam dunk certainty they will fail soon.
"The SD website has been calling for financial collapse and Gold/Silver price ascention almost daily for the past 4+ years."
Not to back up the SD site, but the Fed has been talking about a recovery for 6+ years, that as well has not happened. It will go one way or another soon, If you have PM's your covered for both directions, with a collapse in Fiat being a better outcome for PM's.
I certainly can't disagree with you on some of the content at SD's which is terrible (Organ, Swing, Polny), but if you look around the world and see how gold and silver are faring in other currencies, your argument just doesn't hold up. And bashing PM holders in the USA and saying they are "praying for a mircale to unload their stack" is absurd. Calling PM dealers "shysters" and "carnival barkers" is also pretty ridiculous.
Perhaps I should have been more specific, but I wasn't calling all PM dealers shysters or carnival barkers, but was refering to dealers that would host the likes of the contributors that you mention above. As for looking around the world, nowhere has Gold or Silver protected one's wealth better than holding USD. It's absurd I know, but for the past four years that is the reality. It just goes to show how powerful TPTB are when they can convince billions of people that buying used toilet paper from the states is preferable to buying Gold or Silver.
As for looking around the world, nowhere has Gold or Silver protected one's wealth better than holding USD.
Really? Using "the past four years" to make your point is what's really absurd. And your conclusion is even wrong then; the melt value of a silver quarter today will stil buy you a gallon of gasoline just like it did in 1964 -- despite the four year smack down in prices.
As for longterm, your statement is even more foolish: A $20 double eagle minted in 1913 is not worth less than a $20 FRN today (or one printed in 1913).
It is difficult to understand why the USD would rise in the face of such ridiculous circumstances (ZIRP, QE, massive debt, trillions in unfunded liabilities, etc...), but I will point out that the USDX is still far below its previous highs of almost 15 years ago. Honestly, I'm not sure how reliable the USDX really is anymore. Real inflation rates and ZIRP have killed any reason to hold lots of cash and most Americans have no savings at all in their bank accounts. Most are one or two months away from financial disaster. Other countries in the USDX basket, like Japan and parts of Europe are already crumbling, thus we see supposed USD "strength", when the US economy is actually falling apart as well.
Of course the Keynesian blowhards and fiat trolls will say otherwise and everything is just fucking awesome. Go figure.
Dan Norcini??? Never heard of him. Well, not much. Well, at least not much in the past year. Didn't that guy Jim Sinclair talk about him?
"Mr. I Know Where They Are"
Fuck you Zionist Hasbara toilet scum.
It's an oligarch recovery!they don't need gold if they have our money..
I have no doubts that the old money oligarchs have many tonnes of shiny. They are plugged into the fiat fount, and get
the stuff first, right at the source, thereby allowing them to buy real, actual, hard assets with electrons conjured from the ether.
The alchemists of old couldn't hold a candle to these shysters.
Being in the chosen click and receiving the fiat first is analogous to the human centipede passing the same meal down the line.
The head of the chain gets the lion share of the nutrients, everyone else gets the trickle down; if we're lucky and they chose
not to be anal retentive.
I berieve in you! Holda on Kyle-uh!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqdxHwaxrNM
Get your gold into your physical possession, or you will lose it. The world will soon stop lending the US any money.
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/ignoring-the-absolutely-in...
I think the world will soon sanction the US, It will be called a boycott.
Tangibles are so old school!
A virtual Doctor's visit is just as good as being in the same room.
You can take your own blood pressure can't you? Diabetics inject themselves, buck up people!
Next up, virtual visits from the Fire Department when your house is on fire!
Imagine the cost savings!
So I have to stick my own finger up my butt?
No, you GET to stick your own finger up your butt...
Actually, home telehealth is a great idea. If you can put a cuff around your wrist you can take a blood pressure. You don't have to be onsite to interface with your doctor or nurse. Time and money is saved. Not a fair comparison to firefighting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHd9bYGJtoI
we're fucked.......
I'm still trying to visualize the "...utter scatological regurgitation..." the writer of the piece ascribes to "an analyst."
Reminds me of this group of Ferengi at Starfleet, who wanted me to roll over Dilithium Crystals Futures, rather than take delivery.
Sorry, but Scotty's engines don't run on 'Futures'.
It turns out that the Starfleet Ferengi were shipping actual deliveries to Clingons, given that they love to hoard precious crystals. Ask me if I'm surprised.
Kirk out.
ferengi exchanged everything, including di-lithium crystals, for gold-pressed latinum
Out FUCKINGSTANDING article by someone in the real world. The manipulation doubters can dought, but the US Dollar is being propped
up by blatant naked shorting and is done with immunity due to this being necessary under the premises of NATIONAL SECURITY. When the US Dollar
loses Petro Dollar status, the ship with sink with the rats on or rats off. China, Russia and others know we are financially and morally bankrupt.
The fucking hacks that run the US Govt. better have a very, very good planned alibi to prevent them from aspyxiation from common rope types.
What people don't realize is that if there is a GLOBAL failure, or failure of the US dollar, Euro, or other major currency, then gold will go down with it.
Look what happened in 2008. Gold PLUMMETED, it didn't go up like the bugs imagine. Tell us, why is that? Gold only went up AFTER trillions of dollars in QE were pumped into the system. In a global collapse, that isn't going to happen.
Of course, what I'm saying here is heresy to the stackers. They are the true believers and nothing will ever change their minds. Even if gold plummets in a collapse, they will still justify it to themselves that they "did well".
Right now "paper" gold actually expands the "supply" side with paper gold? not real gold, when the supply side is not influenced by paper the price will rise because supply is really different than it seems. Its like printing money, but they print paper gold. It makes it seem like there is more gold and the price goes down, but there isnt more gold. This defeats the purpose of owning it, but it succeeds at diluting the price. Current prices are no where near where they need to be and it will be obvious when physical supply dwindles. There is a psychological war going on around gold and fiat, the losers who think fiat will work are going to lose they do every time historically.
If paper and physical gold weren’t mixed I might agree with you, but last month a ton of physical gold sold dude, you might want to pay attention. The dollar will continue its long term downward trend against gold and continue to become even more worthless due to confidence causing gold to spike. People will also be quicker and faster to react than the last time and most Goldbugs I know have been preparing since 2008 so there are lots of Strong Hands holding gold right now.
You can't reason or argue with him on gold issues because he doesn't know what he is talking about. Gold is down in USD terms but not in other currencies. Gold is at or near all time highs right now in Japanese Yen, Russian Ruble, Brazilian Real, South African Rand and Aussie Dollar.
It's just a matter of time before gold takes off like a rocket in USD terms. Right now gold and silver are on sale but most Americans are clueless to this fact.
When gold is priced high in other world currencies, it means that quite a few people will sell it, and use the cash to buy other real assets that they value: real estate, etc.
Which then means that this gold can migrate to stronger hands around the globe, such as China (which sells its USTs to buy Gold), US, etc.
It is quite likely that it is shifting from public hands into private hands. In fact, you can bank on it.
Right BoP, my problem is gold priced in local currency has been pegged to the USD forever. So my purchases of non-US foreign goods benefits from USD appreciation, but purchases in the local market (labor, camp supplies, etc) are dear, as are goods priced in USD.
Ah yes, the true believer speaks. And typically, resort to simplistic attacks rather than rational arguments. All in the vain attempt to deflect from the statements I made and hide their bias and ignorance.
Gold is on sale? Hahahahahhaha.
It's on sale when NONE WANTS IT. Yet in your own words, you are saying it's desirable and "will take off". That's exactly the OPPOSITE.
But of course, you can't see that.
This article states that Comex has been has high as 252:1 Pieces of paper(paper gold claims(aka B.S.)) to 1oz of deliverable gold?? WTF?? Do you think that effects the price? 252:1 of something that you cant reproduce unless to go to great lengths? When the music stops I guarantee you 251 out of 252 wont have a chair to sit in. It should be against the law. Period. It shouldn't be allowed to be more than a 1:1 ratio, its gold after all?
Its like me telling you I have 252 oz of gold and getting you to give me money for it and I only have an oz... do I need to say WTF? Maybe Fraud? How do I get into this business sounds like a no brainer?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-15/comexodus-jpmorgans-vault-one-withdrawal-away-running-out-deliverable-gold
Im not saying it will go up 252times, but I believe it will go up exponentially and im saying it wont go down too far from here anyone who looks at this can see it? Its really kind of obvious. It will break free of its chains and head upward when it reverts back to its safe haven roll and confidence is finally lost in the dollar. I dont see us heading in the right direction and see it as inevitable. This is my opinion.
Paper gold and silver need to be outlawed period because there is no good reason for it. Paper gold/silver is a recipe for disaster especially if your the one holding the paper. Its not yours unless its in your hand.
Very well stated argument RM.
So there are two chains holding gold down. one is the Paper ratio, the other is Fiat.
I also believe on top of that gold has made its way to stronger hands than 08 over the past 7-8years, so there will be less of a sell off. I think silver is even better, I love silver. If its not more rare than gold already it will be fairly soon. Some say there is already less physical silver than gold. Silver has many more uses, it is the most functional metal and it gets used up in many non-recoverable ways. Silver I think is a must right now. In a world of inflated assets, think silver. I think over the past year gold/silver has been consolidating quite a bit.
According to this at current rates silver is estimated to run out in 10- 15 +- years and they are manipulating the price down. http://www.visualcapitalist.com/forecast-when-well-run-out-of-each-metal/ Most people dont realize how rare zinc and lead are. It all depends on how things "shake-out" Silver has been manipulated in all the same ways as gold, if not more.
All this being said gold/silver is still being manipulated, so the price is relative to the manipulation, the question is, is how long will physical supply keep up with the charade? Just when it will happen who knows? I think it will come as a sucker punch to the jaw a large dose of humility.
Just for the record I put my money where my mouth is too. With zero hedges. We will see for sure. Its a long run and we seemed to have entered the Twilight Zone.
Just one last piece of data on silver. https://www.silverinstitute.org/site/supply-demand/ Notice Net Balance Row the last 10 or so years. They cant produce enough to meet demand? and the price is in the dumps? Ive seen estimates of an 80 million oz deficit this year. Reserves are getting chewed up. We live on a finite planet.
The government this year doesnt seem to be in compliance with the law because it has not been able to provide its citizens with a continuous / uninterrupted supply of silver coins. I would love to know what they are doing to remedy the situation?
Love the musical chairs analogy!
Your paper silver and gold play a VERY important part. All major miners use it to hedge their production.
You also miss the point, that people TRADING paper, have no intention of taking delivery. They CAN'T AFFORD IT. They don't want to BUY it, they just want to TRADE it. If they actually take delivery, then their capital is tied up in a pile of gold that does NOTHING except sit there.
So your entire argument about paper versus physical delivery is moot.
The only thing that is crystal clear is your lack of critical thinking skills.
You are about as far off as you could possibly get. Fucking nonsense.
No... because you just proved the only thing it does is distort the market? If you cant afford it and you dont want delivery of it what right do you have to affect the price of it? Holy shit man? and we wonder?
How does that justify a 252:1 ratio? Its beyond. How exactly do you really hedge gold/silver with "paper"? I would love to see how that works in a major crisis? Give it a shot and let me know how you make out, would ya?
"In the first 30 minutes 29.6k contracts were unloaded – 2.6 million paper ounces. In the entire hour after the announcement 50.5k contracts were unloaded – 5.1 million ounces. Note that the Comex is showing around 200k ounces to be available for delivery."
Nobody with legitimate hedging positions would ever engage in this kind of trading to lose money on purpose. Thus, his argument is false. Quite frankly, I don't think he even reads these articles, he just trolls the comments.
His comments seem like they are part of the "propaganda" team that just woke up after a heavy night of drinking, doesnt seem like a happy fellow, trying to play a little catch-up.
The whole argument that 252:1 ratio of open interest to registered stocks somehow reveals a dearth of physical gold in the market to meet potential demand for physical gold I don't understand.
A large percentage of longs on COMEX are intended to be settled for dollars by speculators just like shorts, so high open interest in and of itself doesn't mean high demand for physical gold.
Moreover, COMEX registered stocks are just a buffer used for fast response delivery. The size of a buffer does not connote the size of the depth of actual supply. In the same way that my CPU having a 4M cache or a 8M cache says nothing about the size of physical RAM on my machine which could be 4GB, 8GB, 16GB, 128GB or who knows what.
In supply chains, low inventories and JIT delivery capabilities show efficiency by not tying up stocks needlessly (reducing carrying costs). They have nothing to do with the quantity of goods that can be supplied.
Moreover, next in line after COMEX registered stocks are eligible stocks that can be turned into registered stocks with the stroke of a pen. Next in line after eligible stocks are outside private ownership of unkown amounts of bullion held in all kinds of forms in all kinds of vaults that could be converted to eligible stocks with a little time, expense, and hassle of remelting, assaying, and certification.
I'm not saying there isn't price manipulation going on or no paper vs. physical supply shenanigans. I'm just saying the open interest : COMEX registered stocks ratio wouldn't indicate that one way or the other.
Your quote: "The whole argument that 252:1 ratio of open interest to registered stocks somehow reveals a dearth of physical gold in the market to meet potential demand for physical gold I don't understand."
Thats not what I meant, I actually meant the opposite, it makes it seem like there is more and dilutes the price? The long term problem is when your continuously trying to manipulate the price of something that is finite down? Logically over time a finite resource will run out much faster? The problem also comes if the shit actually hits the fan again. Thats when the problem with "paper" gold becomes really evident after its too late. When holders realize they wont be getting delivery, they will be getting an IOU like people who have been "Winning" the Illinois State Lottery
Your quote: "I'm not saying there isn't price manipulation going on or no paper vs. physical supply shenanigans. I'm just saying the open interest : COMEX registered stocks ratio wouldn't indicate that one way or the other."
No, I understand my example is not an exact science either it just illustrates a point and its a little crazy to even say "paper" gold? At that time the physical representation was 252:1 Glad Im not there.
Currencies do devalue over time, but that's not the point. Currency is a medium of EXCHANGE. So devaluation is irrelevant, unless you think stuffing cash into your mattress is an investment.
It's the same false argument I keep hearing over and over. Trying to compare a physical commodity to a medium of exchange, and then saying that the physical commodity is better becasue if you hold both in your hands for thousands of years, the commodity will still have some value? Duh, is that a comparison?
Gold is a commodity that has almost no utility or use. It's value is ONLY driven by greed and desire. Look over the past decade or so, it's value has swung by a factor of 7 !!! How much have average wages swung in that same time period? 1.5? Does that mean gold is stable? NO, of course it isn't.
The reality is that there is 2,400 tonnes of NEW gold mined every year. That's 24,000 tonnes over the next decade. Do you really think the market is going to continue to absorb this amount of gold, at current prices, when it's NEVER USED and simply stored?
Wait until interest rates rise. A lot of people will take a look at their devaluing stack of gold vs interest rates and decide it's better to turn their gold into something that provides a RETURN. Right now the opportunity cost of holding gold is low. But when interest rates rise? It becomes expensive to hold gold. They can always buy gold again when needed, but in the meantime, their "investment" is better put into something that provides a RETURN.
Your quote: "The reality is that there is 2,400 tonnes of NEW gold mined every year. That's 24,000 tonnes over the next decade."
Do you realize thats about all thats left? according to this: http://www.visualcapitalist.com/forecast-when-well-run-out-of-each-metal/ Thats all folks!
24,000 tonnes for the whole world give or take? We supposedly have 8,000 tonnes? Thats pretty rare.
Your quote: "It's value is ONLY driven by greed and desire."
Gold = Work = Money Gold is one of the most liquid assets and is exchangeable with any currency (maybe not any currency, but most and black market for sure)?
Do you realize by leaving your money in the dollar since the 60's it has lost most of its value in comparisaon to gold? http://pricedingold.com/us-dollar/ why do you think gold is 1,100 an oz?
And of course we must not forget reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Exter When all else fails.
I think we live in interesting times.
Gold is money AND currency. Gold (and silver) are also world's premier stores of value. So much for your opening statement.
You have no idea what you're talking about -- but keep blathering your daily nonsense here. I appreciate the comic relief.
Ya when SHTF I hope you have a wheel barrel, youre gonna need it!
With my wheelbarrow, I will be able to CONTINUE to EARN money, in whatever form it's in.
You on the other hand, what do you do when you run out of your few coins? And those coins will be significancy devalued from their relative purchasing power of today. When things turn bad, it's a BUYERS market for luxuries like gold. Yes, gold is a luxury, because it does nothing except sit there.
Preserving your wealth from declining purchasing power brought about by rapidly devaluing fiat is a luxury? I consider it a necessity -- but that's just me.
Premiums are down on physical delivery, silver and gold heading down, dont buy the everything is manipulated the gold bugs tell you. Inventory getting low in the west though.
http://youtu.be/yD1G-zaZrhw
Since you seem mis-informed on gold manipulation, I offer you this overwhelming evidence:
-- Was the Banque de France's director of market operations, Alexandre Gautier, telling the truth when he told the London Bullion Market Association meeting in Rome in September 2013 that the bank is secretly trading gold for its own account and the accounts of other central banks "nearly on a daily basis"? (See: http://www.gata.org/node/13373.)
-- Is the Bank for International Settlements telling the truth when it maintains in its annual report that it does the same sort of secret trading on behalf of its member central banks, trading not only gold itself but also gold futures, options, and other derivatives? (See:http://www.gata.org/node/12717.)
-- Is the BIS sincere when it advertises that it undertakes secret interventions in the gold market for its members? (Seehttp://www.gata.org/node/11012.)
-- Was CME Group, which operates the major futures exchanges in the United States, telling the truth last year when it told the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission that it is offering volume trading discounts to central banks for secretly trading all contracts on its exchanges? (See http://www.gata.org/node/14385.)
-- Was CME Group telling the truth last year when it told the U.S. Securities and Exchange commission that its customers include governments and central banks? (See http://www.gata.org/node/14411.)
-- If central banks are indeed doing so much secret trading in the gold market and other markets, what are their objectives and might this secret trading be intended to manipulate markets, support government currencies and bonds, and deceive and cheat investors who think that markets are free trading?
There is a lot more documentation suggesting as much here:
http://www.gata.org/node/14839
And this
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-04/why-did-citigroups-precious-met...
Plausible deniability. Sitting behind their 'Honorary' nameplates with all their self-righteous indignation calling themselves a 'justice department'. It will be fun
to watch them begin to eat each other. I think Hillary takes the psycho of the century award right behind pathological liar O'Golfer. Do they reaaly think there is
a pleasure cruise waiting for them at the end of this? Mind-numbing.
Pretty obvious gold gets slammed the day Venezuela announces it is selling its' gold to pay bills.
So Venezuela sells the only form of value the creditors would honor and that says gold is a barbaric relic? They couldn't have just wrote a check?...
The day of reckoning will come. Those with physical gold will be hunted down like dogs by the vast police state. Every ounce you ever bought is tracked. Your name is on the list, the police state thugs will hit tens of thousands of honest people's homes in a 'night of the long knives", when over, the Feds will have your gold, and you may be on trial for treason. Treason against Wall Street. Lets be clear, the people who run Wall Street, Run America, they will nevre lose because they make all the rules. I already found out that if you are smart, and make the right decissions with your money, and cheat the Street of it's due, the Government will change the rules overnight, and your prudent financial decisions will be hull and void, the bankers will steal your money, just as if you were long stocks and got raped in the crash. The elites made money on both sides of the trade. They stole the wealth of those long stocks in the crash. Then they stole the money of savers who were short stocks and long cash, by going to zirp and ending the payment of interest on savings.
Head they win, tails you lose. The game is totally rigged. I love gold, but again, when things go south, the government will steal our gold, and laugh in our faces. Only bankers will be allowed to hold gold, private parties will be ripped off.
Pretty spooky. Halloween much?
Your conclusions are based on the ability of these psychopaths to create a one world government. I believe that the wide cultural variance of humanity will never allow this to occur. Many have tried to conquer the world and ALL have failed. If you diversify your holdings they will be saved......... but maybe not you.
You are much too pessimistic. PMs have been commoditized and so few Americans own any. It's not cost effective, especially when stealing from the paper markets is so easy and lucrative.
Jack, no offense, but you sound like a fucking idiot right now.
Jack Burnton, You are correct. People only see what they think they can handle. Wall Street devours everything and anything apposing it. The down arrows are from people misguided, or ignorant lost souls. I wish to hang with the up-arrow people when we get herded to the gallows.
In the name of Christ, be saved and be at peace.
Jack, I gave you an upvote, but wonder why so many downers. (WTF?)
While the part about being hunted down is speculation, the other points you make - especially about the gov and banks changing the game to suit their needs and impoverish the rest - are entirely valid and backed up by history.
Some of the people around here ought to bone up on some history,m like the "Crime of '73." (Bing it.)
Bankers would love nothng more than to have the value of gold and silver at zero, at which point they would buy it all up and declare an end to fiat money, with their "new" bi-mettalic notes as official currency.
Buncha crooks, nothing more.
For those unable or unwilling to stack PMs, I suggest investing in tangible goods, real estate (always and everywhere taxed excessively) or both. Firearms aren't bad investments, either.
Who's complaining? Thanks to these morons we're able to keep buying at rock bottom prices for YEARS while every other asset on the planet has gone through the stratosphere. Moar moar moar. Keep manipulating away jackasses. I can't buy fast enough.
I agree but it doesnt make it right, its an important signal that is not signalling, just making a bad situation worse.
Right, and it's a beautiful metal.
Rock bottom prices? It's the opposite right now. Prices are rock bottom when people DON'T WANT something. Your lust, and that of many of the posters here, proves the opposite. It's when people like you no longer want to buy gold, we know the price is at rock bottom.
Just wait until interest rates rise. Gold will sink faster than the Titanic.
Its blatant at this point. They are almost daring someone to do something about it. They have made it very clear they dont care.
Can't be 9th inning with the dollar showing no sign of imminent collapse. But admitting that won't sell many books.
Kranzler's right about the manipulations. Seems just like what Corzine and Madoff did in their final days before they collapsed. Remember folks, Corzine and Madoff published monthly statements that told their customers how rich they were. The day after they folded, no more statements. Just a bunch of paper declaring how "rich" they had been. Unfortunately, the cost of something for nothing meant that their sons died before the fathers. Not supposed to happen that way. Karma is a bitch.
The manipulation of gold/silver IS a disgrace... but compared to the rampant corruption of the USA "Justice" Dept... it is nothing.
I tend to agree, but would not limit it ot the justice in US alone. EU is really a hard competitor in that. But so are all the central banks. The pointi is the socialists of all parties run out of other peoples money. And desparation of the current undoubtly corrupt system makes it extremly dangerous. Get into the way of somone who does not want ot loos it's power, and you learn what collateral damage really means...
It seems like everyone on here and the author have forgotten what wipes out debt and financial poverty.
War.
The last fiat of resort.
My goodness it's been documented paper will default to 0 while phyz could go into orbit for years. Why is everyone complaining?
Drops every day at 8 AM Sharp........they don't even try and hide it
So what's the problem? Given that this economic system is destined for a collapse, the manipulation is a gift. Take advantage while supplies last.
True defeat requires capitulation of the defeated. It must be their idea and they must admit their defeat, so that never again will they be allowed to deny it. The world will defeat each of us and our ideas too. Gold, on the other hand, will be in the world until the end of the universe. Get yourself some gold and admit that you belong to it! Few people are allergic to gold. It is awesome for filling tiny holes in teeth rotted by decadence. There is probably just about enough gold (thats been brought from the earth) to provide quality dentistry for everyone. To my mind it would a better use than heaping it in vaults, but such is our cruelty to one another. The crimes that I witness are callous near to what nature herself dispenses. We could exist with one less element if that would satisfy the greed of a few, however it does seem unlikely that their aims stop at drepriving us of gold. There are many moving parts to these machinations. It is glorious in its epic infamy and the disillussionment of the general population will be spectactular. No promise is as good as gold. Gold is the promise kept and the comitment satisfied! To demand gold is the height of reprehensible behaviour. Those who are put in the position of demanding something which the other party simply cannot produce have lost without knowing. The shame should fall more heavily on the promisor, but it does not. The promisor has bourne the burden over time already (and they should face death with dignity) and the promisee has proven that satisfaction can be defirred (therefore rendering execution gratuitous.) Tldr: people r fuckers and gold is inert.
Well said!
Yes, the markets are being aggressively manipulated. You know it, they (Fed)know it and they know you know it and they don't care. Lies and monetization is all they have. They are desperate and are attacking PM's because they need to emotionally, punish dollar doubters, and psychologically to give the perception of dollar strength. Janet and friends see their dream of a unipolar world anchored to their currency, allowing them complete control, very slowly slipping away. I think when the bond markets start to go, things will get nasty.
Nobody is talking about gold and silver premiums anymore, why? Because they have plunged, there is no interest in gold and silver anymore.
Very few can master their emotions to go against the crowd, especially one this strong. To those who can, there was never a btter time to be a contrarian.
Tangible property is about the only kind of asset economic collapses can't destroy. PM at these prices, they are practically giving it away. It is possible prices could go still lower But relative to all other assets, they can't go as low, and there is no risk of second party default.
Still to get something of no interest costs you roughly 1100 USD....
guys, guys, just stop now. save your dignity. don't get me wrong, i'm one of you, i really am. i like PM, you may say my family's financial future is bsaed on this article being right; but we've seen this article for literally years; TPTB have more time and money than you or i do. what is your opportunity cost of holding PM? if you bought S&P in 2009 you'd be better off today, and that's a fact;
i literallly don't see any good place to park cash, none. i hate cash and i'm hoarding it, how's that make any sense to anybody?
but we've seen this article for literally years;
I've been seeing articles like this for fifteen years. So it's old news that has gotten boring and repititious. The fact is, all commodity prices have collapsed. As Martin Armstrong so well reminds us, no amount of manipulation can change the trend.
I reached my quota five years ago. Based on the way trends were going, I would have done it if I never heard of manipulation. I admit that I did expect prices to skyrocket. But that was when I was expecting an inflationary collapse. Now that the trend is clearly heading towards a deflationary collapse, this collapse has the potential to be worse than anything in recorded history. Under these conditions, the reasons are even stronger to have PM in your possession. As much as you can afford.
Inflationary collapse or Deflationary collapse? I've heard a lot about this, but no one seems to be sure which exactly will happen, or what order it'll happen in. I presume if we're going to have a deflationary collapse then a multitude of defaults for big business or small business is going to occur, and if it's going to be an inflationary collapse, then the government is just going to go on a money printing frenzy and bail everyone out and do helicopter money. Am I missing something here?
To paraphrase Hemmingway: Bankruptcy will come gradually (deflationary collapse) and then suddenly (a hypernflationary supernova). Then comes the reset.