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ISIS Releases Video Of Alleged Russian Airplane Mid-Air Exposion After It Claims Responsibility For Disaster
That didn't take long: following the worst Russian airplane disaster in history, the question everyone was asking is who is responsible. Moments ago we may have gotten the answer.
A militant group affiliated to Islamic State in Egypt claimed responsibility for the downing of a Russian passenger plane that crashed in Egypt's Sinai peninsula on Saturday, the group said in a statement circulated by supporters on Twitter.
Below is the full statement from a group alleging to speak on behalf of Islamic State, posted on their affiliate site, translated by the Guardian's Jahd Khalil. It offers no evidence that the group brought down the plane, apart from their word.
Breaking: Downing of Russian airplane, killing of more than 220 Russian crusaders on board.
Soldiers of the Caliphate were able to bring down a Russian plane above Sinai Province with at least 220 Russian crusaders aboard.
They were all killed, praise be to God. O Russians, you and your allies take note that you are not safe in Muslims lands or their skies.
The killing of dozens daily in Syria with bombs from your planes will bring woe to you. Just as you are killing others, you too will be killed, God willing.
The tweet in question:
#Egypt #ISIS Claim Responsibility for shot down the Russian Aircraft over Sinai #IS #ISIL pic.twitter.com/tBCRt7Xen1
— Abu Ibrahim Raqqawi (@raqqa_mcr) October 31, 2015
Many expressed their initial skepticism that ISIS is the responsible party:
UPDATE: Responding to IS claim, Russian Transport Ministry says it "can't be considered true;" plane at 31k feet, outside MANPAD range, @BBC
— Stratfor (@Stratfor) October 31, 2015
#ISIS claim re. #Russia airliner -- 3 possibilities:
1. False claim
2. Bomb on plane
3. ISIS [somehow] has advanced air defense missiles.
— Charles Lister (@Charles_Lister) October 31, 2015
An analyst with the Center for American Progress, Mokhtar Awad, told the Guardian that the Islamic State’s claim of responsibility "is quite vague.
“It doesn’t state how they were able to ‘down’ the plane allegedly. Even the most sophisticated of portable surface-to-air missiles cannot reach that high an altitude and are only a threat during periods of take-off or landing, but the plane had already climbed to its target altitude (from what we know thus far) when it began to likely experience technical failures.
The local affiliate, Wilayat Sinai, has been under some pressure over the past few months and may have jumped the gun on taking credit. Although there isn’t a precedent for such a spectacular lie about something they claim to have done, Islamic State itself has recently been embellishing more and more. For instance it claimed that the recent prison raid by Kurdish and US special forces were a total failure, when in fact video evidence surfaced showed them freeing the hostages. So this may be an instance of the rooster taking credit for the dawn.”
Of course, it could simply have been a bomb planted on the plane and set to explade after 20 minutes of flight time.
Another theory that has emerged is that a prior structural shock (in 2001) led to a spontenous midair disintegration:
What jumps out from this particular airplane’s record is an accident that it suffered on November 16, 2001 while landing at Cairo (while owned and operated by Middle East Airlines). As it touched down the nose was pointing at too high an angle and the tail hit the tarmac – heavily enough to cause substantial damage.
Tail strikes like this are not uncommon. The airplane was repaired and would have been rigorously inspected then and during subsequent maintenance checks. Nonetheless investigators who will soon have access to the Airbus’s flight data recorder will take a hard look at what is called the rear pressure bulkhead, a critical seal in the cabin’s pressurization system. Images from the wreckage in the Sinai show parts of the tail and rear fuselage near the site of this bulkhead lying clear of the rest of the debris, suggesting a possible break-up in flight.
In the event of a failure of this bulkhead, the airplane would have suffered a sudden and potentially explosive decompression; at its final recorded altitude of 31,000 feet the difference between the pressure inside the cabin and the air outside would have been at the point where such a catastrophic failure would be most likely to occur. The wreckage shows no signs of a fire or an engine-related explosion.
On the other hand, this is like saying Lehman had an earnings miss in 1994 and filed bankruptcy 14 years later.
Even Russia's transport minister Maksim Sokolov has said that the claim Islamic State militants brought down the plane "can’t be considered accurate".
Now in various media there is assorted information that the Russian [plane]... was supposedly shot down by an anti-aircraft missile, fired by terrorists. This information can’t be considered accurate.
However, to corroborate their claim, ISIS has allegedly released this shocking video showing what appears to be a mid-air bomb explosion.
Viewer discretion advised.
#????
????? #??????_????????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? #???????_??????? ?? #????? pic.twitter.com/wxE4KRanht
— ???? (@iq2015_bgd) October 31, 2015
Although according to latest social media updates, even IS Sinai is stating that this video is fake.
IS Sinai says purported vid of Russian plane being down is a fake
— Samer Al-Atrush (@SameralAtrush) October 31, 2015
As a reminder, this is where the alleged explosion occurred:
Whether or not the video is real or staged like many of ISIS' previous "made in Hollywood" productions, is currently unknown.
Of course, is the same ISIS which a recently leaked CIA report revealed as being created by the CIA as a "tool" to overthrow Syria's Assad.
In other words, a proxy organization of US "shadow government destabilizing operations", trained in U.S. ally Turkey, and openly funded by both U.S. allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar, just took down a Russian plane.
The question now is did ISIS use a US-made surface-to-air missile to start what may be a very unpleasant war.
Also, does Russia get a carte blanche to begin attacks on ISIS in Egypt now, the same Egypt which recently "purchased" the two Mistral ships made by France, which were meant to be bought by Russia in a deal that was scrapped in the last minute due to NATO intervention?
One thing is clear: if the Russian population had any qualms about continuing the campaign in Syria, they were just eliminated in perpetuity.
We now await the Russian response, against both ISIS and its direct and indirect sponsors.
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Looks like the US advisors just gave MANPADS to ISIS... Avoid flying until World War 3 is over.
They still fly commercial planes over Egypt?
Who knew...
The death throws of the American Empire.
As in throw any idiot plan against the wall and see if anything sticks, and if anything doesn't, everyone dies.
Langley has finally sent its message to Putin
+1. Now the chess master has his move.
The only way to revive the US economy is start, and win, a major war, so that's what's gonna happen. These are all just incremental moves so everyone is in position after the economic attacks have run their course.
Sorry folks, but Russia will not win the war.
ISIS has the best binoculars....knowing it was Russian at 31,000 ft, impressive.
Libyan missiles on the loose - WaPo May 2012
Whenever the CIA uncovers a new plot overseas, like al-Qaeda’s latest scheme to blow up civilian aircraft using advanced, hard-to-detect explosives, people breathe a sigh of relief. But this is a multifront war, and almost by definition, the attack that gets you is the one you didn’t see coming.
For the past few months, I’ve been hearing private warnings about another threat to commercial planes — namely, the spread of shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles from Libya after the overthrow of Moammar Gaddafi’s regime. A State Department official said in February that Gaddafi had acquired 20,000 of these weapons, and that only 5,000 of them had been secured through a $40 million U.S. program to buy up loose missiles.
David Ignatius writes a twice-a-week foreign affairs column and contributes to the PostPartisan blog. View Archive
“How many are still missing?” asked Andrew Shapiro, assistant secretary of state for political-military affairs, in his Feb. 2 speech. “The frank answer is we don’t know and probably never will.”
Here’s the scary part: Two former CIA counterterrorism officers told me last week that technicians recently refurbished 800 of these man-portable air-defense systems (known as MANPADS) — some for an African jihadist group called Boko Haram that is often seen as an ally of al-Qaeda — for possible use against commercial jets flying into Niger, Chad and perhaps Nigeria.
The former CIA officers have been trying for eight months to alert U.S. intelligence, without success. Here’s a summary of the messages I’ve seen.
On Sept. 9, 2011, as Gaddafi’s regime was collapsing, one of the former CIA officers warned an FBI contact that Libyan missiles were moving south into the Agadez region of Niger inhabited by Tuareg tribesmen, who are believed to have links with al-Qaeda. He explained to the FBI contact that an Arab source “said there are SA-7s and SA-24s (two Russian-made weapons) already on the ground in Agadez from Libya in the hands of Tuareg AQ affiliated groups.” He heard nothing back.
In a Sept. 12 e-mail, the former CIA officer wrote his FBI friend that the Niger contacts “have determined locally that the [United States government] doesn’t want to help them” chase down the missiles. “I suspect [the Near East division of CIA] squashed this by their normal bureaucratic warfare,” he speculated.
The CIA veteran still hoped that U.S. intelligence would get involved, so he provided the name and telephone number of a relative of a former Libyan intelligence officer who allegedly had helped move the missiles out of the country. On Sept. 15, he also sent the FBI contact phone numbers for the Arab source in Niger who was closely monitoring the missile movements.
On Sept. 28, the frustrated ex-CIA officer wrote a U.S. military contact: “The missiles are in the hands of al-Qaeda and being distributed. I would really like to know who in the agency was the roadblock and why.”
Still, the former CIA officer heard nothing back. In December, he wrote another FBI contact that a “speed bump” at the agency apparently was blocking communication.
Finally, in late April, the two former CIA officers received information so urgent they felt they had to get it out, somehow. They sent to a law enforcement contact a picture of a rebel fighter aiming one of the Libyan missiles, and this explanation: “The missiles and munitions that have been streaming out of Libya since the fall of 2011 have made their way to Agadez in Niger and points west. .?.?. Boko Haram has taken possession of some of the refurbished missiles. They have brought Egyptian army ordnance technicians to refurbish and test the SA-7B missiles pictured below. .?.?. The source claims that some 800 missiles are available in the area.”
Last weekend, the CIA veterans finally heard from someone claiming to represent their former employer. The agency official was interested in talking to their Arab source.
When I asked senior U.S. officials for comment, they said they hadn’t heard about the specifics of this case, or the e-mail exchanges. But they agreed the Libyan missiles are a serious problem. “It’s probably true that a small number of Libyan MANPADS have been sold on the black market, and that al-Qaeda in the Maghreb is trying to acquire them,” said a senior U.S. official.
great post, AC, +1000
russian news, denying it was isis. blaming it on the old plane.
and the video is now gone. The youtube message states the account that posted it has been terminated. hmmmmmmmmmm
For all the savvy behind the 'Tylers'...you'd think they'd use software (easily available) to copy the youtube vid instead of just linking it.
Hey Tyler, FWIW typing in ISIS on google right now puts you at the #3 position on the In The News section. Might want to call up the reserves in your server army...
For those still looking, video still here:
http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/isis-islamic-state-shooting-down-metrojet-...
Ha - Xibalba, you joined a week earlier than me, I never realized you were a waywaybacker.
Egypt has SLAMRAAM, that could have done it.
IF TRUE...iSIS Just Signed their...
Well, Ruskie Fury About to Start in SYRIA...
Looks doctored to me.
The real question is:
Was It The MOSSAD, the CIA, ISIS Or All Three?
http://themillenniumreport.com/2015/10/russian-airliner-takedown-over-si...
If Nuclear weapons were ok to use on civilians in WW2 why not use tactical nukes on ISIS in the Syrian desert? I think the USA set the precedent, the Russians need to put it to good use.
Does ISIS also take credit for the sinking of the Titannic with thousands of infidels aboard?
HA! This smacks so fucking hard of a false flag. Us wants escalation so as to get an excuse to invade syria/iraq themselves. now with russia given an excuse to escalate, us gets an excuse to escalate. anything to distract the us shitizens of the pending collapse.
At least they didn't plow this one into a building. But did any buildings fall in sympathy?
That "note" is so reminiscent of the "anthrax letters" from 14 years ago...
"This is next... Take penacilin now... Death To America... Death To Israel... Allah is great"
If we can't see the same hands behind this very poor propaganda ploy, God help us. Again, cui bono, folks?
Here's the video at The Gateway Pundit:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/breaking-isis-takes-credit-for-s...
Note the proximity to jooland.
Why do these fuckers (I am assuming them to be Neo-cons) have such a fetish about causing plane creashes ?
Because you can't read and hack into blackboxes
The chessmaster better watch it, he's playing "The Pigeon", and The Pigeon is playing MARBLES!
Did World Trade Center 8 free fall into its basement after the crash?
Well, the plane was actually at 28,375ft when it exploded, so yeah, that would be OK for a camcorder or binoculars right?
They have yet to 'pull-it' on the pyramids.
I think you are thinking way too convoluted. The false flag story is just way over the top. Be it from Russian or US side. The video looks quite real, but at 30k feet it can't be shoulder launched. But there is a chance some AA missiles where accessible via Libya for instance. In any case, if Putin needed an additional reason for the Syria campaign, he has just found one with the fullest backing of its people. If ISIS thinks this is reason to celebrate, they don't know what an anrgy bear is capable of. They are in for some serious hurt.
FOOLS.
PUTIN HAS MADE A HGUGE GEOPOLITICAL BLUNDER
HE MUST RESPOND BECAUSE
HIS ENTIRE POLITICAL IMAGE IS
ARNOLD MACHO TUFF GUY...
AND RUSSIA WILL BE SUCKED DEEP INTO TARBABY
OF RABID CRAZY TRIBAL MIDDLE EAST NUT-ZONE....
THEN ISIS SENDS BOMBS INTO RUSSIA.
PUTIN FUCKED. LOSES 2018 ELECTION. WATCH.
probably revenge for russians doing the same thing in ukraine
still sad tho :( putin and obama are both killers
He mentioned once about why no one is questioning the funding of ISIS.... yet always the West threatens the evil enablers of terrorists... be on the lookout for supply chain dots being connected and destroyed all the way to the sources.
It is rumored that Toyota pick-ups were seen pulling away from Krokatoa right before it blew.
My guess is on the Ali Babas from Saudis Arabia. They are in big trouble now wihth low oil prices and lots of civil unrest. Creating chaos elsewhere is to their advantage. Plus, if they can blow up the world trade center and get away scott free, a Russian plane with over 200 people is small potatoes for them.
"Tactical Nukes" said the pretty face....
The real question is, what is Russian for "blowback"? ISIS guys probably can't shoot down an airliner at altitude, but they could infiltrate an Egyptian airport and plant a bomb in the cargo hold.
So many people on the ZH message board nowdays seem like born yesterday. Think of a little history: for a decade the CIA was openly supplying weapons and training to Afghan forces that were killing Russians; and during an earlier decade the Russians were openly supplying weapons and training to the Vietnamese who were killing US forces. Proxy wars have a long history. It's almost like rules of the game.
It was rare in the past to target civilian airliners, because that was against the rules, sort of a low blow. I actually doubt that the Israelis or US would help Sunni militias specifically to target a civilian airliner, given how much they have to lose in that realm. No doubt the Israelis, US, gulf Arabs et al. are plotting blowback against Russia for its boots on the ground in Syria, but within the rules established for decades of proxy fighting during the cold war. No doubt there have been urgent phone calls to that effect today.
Alas, the amorphous network of Sunni militias in the Middle East today is difficult to manage, or even figure out. It's not so clean as working with the mujahadeen of old, or Uncle Ho's well-disciplined army.
The real question is, what is Russian for "blowback"? ISIS guys probably can't shoot down an airliner at altitude, but they could infiltrate an Egyptian airport and plant a bomb in the cargo hold.
Another possibility: The plane was empty (or not) and remotely detonated (by Russia) to garner support for the war at home. That might sound crazy ....... but not that crazy ....
I can not believe nobody said nothing about this possibility. Still Putin wins
If it were "Blowback" for Russia, then it would be the consequences of America's Iraq war, which they have yet to experience... Mostly because there is no Russian for "Charlie Wilson".
I noticed the flight path was not that far from Israel.
Let me guess. They recently outsourced airport security to an Israeli firm?
Or Egypt recently outsourced security to a firm headed by Marvin Bush?
Obviously, a job done by the Donetsk Republic.
So an airliner approximately 200 feet in length at a distance of 31,000 feet appears to fill the screen of a cell phone held in the vertical posistion that much?
Mmmmmmmkay.
Rita Katz must be hungover.
Looks like it was filmed thru a telephoto lens to me.
Then why shadowbox the video to make it looks like is was shot with a smartphone?
They make smartphone adapters for telescopes:
https://www.google.com/search?q=smartphone+telescope+adapter
Are these sold at Alan's Snackbar in the wadi?
Nope. U.S. Air Force accidentally air dropped em
They also make telephoto lense adapters for smartphones...
http://www.hammacher.com/Product/Default.aspx?sku=84602
Ebay has copies of this "strap-on" from Hong Kong for $20 USD.
Haji style. Arabs like to edit their videos to look as if they were record from either binoculars or smartphones. Street credibility issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5yNhga6QHU
It doesn't matter what they used (cell phone/telephoto etc.) because the sun angle is wrong. Sunrise was at 6:08 AM local in Cairo so the sun would have only been a few degrees above the horizon off the right wing. The plane supposedly shown is how one might appear at that location closer to noon, with the sun well above and behind the plane.
A couple of the Muslims gifts to Western civilization were universities, astronomy and higher math. ISIS is an embarassment even to Muslims from the Middle Ages.
Ritz Katz will probably get someone fired over at Dreamworks or Industrial Light and Magic for this screw up. Her ISIS beheading videos, drowning on cages and lighting Jordanian fighter pilots on fire look so real (sarc)
this will probably be the only time i amend something of yours, Paveway; but i felt it an important distinction.
"A couple of the Muslims gifts to Western civilization were universities, astronomy and higher math."
1) those were arab gifts that predate the advent of islam 2) i don't think it coincident that arabs have failed to yield any significant gifts for the world's civilization after the adoption of their retrograde religion 3) the case of arabia's cultural atrophy is strong evidence that the world's peoples and their respective successes/failures are a function of culture rather than race.
a similar case can be made with regard to persians. pre-islam, the persians were a leading influence in the development of world civilization...post-islam has been the familiar slow-slide into retrograde seen in every place and peoples into which islam spreads.
the difference between north lebanon (christian) and south lebanon (islam) is like night & day.
janus
"...1) those were arab gifts that predate the advent of islam..."
Islam was founded in the 7th century A.D. (or C.E. for the PC). University of al-Qarawiyyin in Fez, Morocco was the first mosque-school at the time that had the concept of degrees awarded for mastery of subjects of study. It emphasized religious studies, but included math, sciences and a host of other subjects. Interesting to note that the development of the university/degree part is credited to two notable Muslim women scholars. Both men and women were taught at the school and were respected scholars and treated as equals - imagine that. It was associated with the largest mosque in Africa at the time and became one of the earliest well-known centers of knowledge. Zaytouna mosque-school down the coast in Tunis was also a center of knowledge and was founded at least a hundred years earlier, but hadn't formalized paths of subject-specific studies into degreed programs. It was just a bunch of smart people. Non-muslims studied at these schools as well, including Christians and Jews. That's those crazy liberal muslims for you.
The first European university/great library was in Cordoba, Spain. Cordoba itself started out rather modestly in 756 as the capital of Islamic Spain. By the tenth century, it was arguably the largest and greatest city in all of Europe. It's drew scholars (men, women, Christian, Jews) from everywhere and had more books and scrolls than Baghdad or Damascus. Those two (Muslim) cities did boast the first organized astronomical observatories though and Cordoba drew much of it's astronomical knowledge from them.
"...2) i don't think it coincident that arabs have failed to yield any significant gifts for the world's civilization after the adoption of their retrograde religion..."
Not significant, but interesting in context. While Europeans were living in sod or stone huts on dirt roads in their cities, those filthy, retrograde Muslims came up with the craziest of ideas: paved roads, indoor sanitary plumbing and city-wide sewage systems. The Romans had a few of those for the rich and elite, but nothing the average urban-dwelling Roman could walk on or have in their homes. Cordoba was the city other European cities wanted to be like (just not Muslim).
Europeans were also amazed at the general cleanliness of the Muslims - probably because they were waiting for the Muslims to tell them about soap, which they never heard of along with saponification of fats and much other basic chemistry. The Greek scholarly knowledge was so prized during the Enlightenment and Renaissance because Muslims saw the same value in them and had them translated into Arabic and stored in their libraries. Those arabic texts were then translated (by Muslims) into Latin. That's how the Europeans were exposed to the vast majority of classical Greek knowledge, not through Latin texts that managed to survive the fall of the Roman empire. And at a time the Europeans were still worrying about curing disease through bloodletting, the Muslims in Cairo (IIRC) were publishing illustrated manuals of surgery and other crazy stuff like the idea of the circulatory system. Those illustrated manuals were the standard reference for European surgeons for hundreds of years. I could go on about their contributions to physics, math, architecture, chemistry, medicine and astronomy that Europeans would later build on, but I hope you get the idea by now.
Like all empires, Moorish Spain came to and end by its own hand - with the last nut-job vizier of Cordoba (he burnt the libraries in the eleventh century). The Muslim centers of knowledge and culture in Africa and the Middle East suffered their own declines and fell by the wayside. They were eclipsed by the great advancements Europe started to make at the end of the Middle Ages.
"...3) the case of arabia's cultural atrophy is strong evidence that the world's peoples and their respective successes/failures are a function of culture rather than race..."
Saudi rulers corrupted Islam in its decline to serve them as a control tool. It wasn't Islam itself that caused the cultural atrophy, it was simply usurped to serve other purposes and contributed to that atrophy. If you only look back a thousand years, Islam seems to be linked with or actually cause cultural decline. That ignores Islam in its golden years of the eighth to the tenth century and the great contributions it made during the emergence of much of 'Western civilization' during the Enlightenment and Renaissance.
You can make observations about Islam's apparent effects today, but you can't simply erase 350 years of its contributions to much of your culture.
Basic Surgery - including cataracts - were performed in the Roman Empire. Lost in the Dark Ages...
Like the knowledge in many other fields that were know in Rome and Greece but lost in the Dark Ages in Europe. But preserved and re-introduced through the Muslims in North Africa and Spain, who may well have just built on what they had learned from the Romans. The muslim scholars were not so much inventors as they were collectors and combiners of knowledge from every place they visited or knew about. One can say they 'invented' arabic numerals, but much of their contributions in math were built directly upon ideas they were exposed to in China and India or retained from Greek and Roman sources. Muslims were the pre-eminent scholars of the day in many non-Islamic areas of study and willingly passed that on to whomever else was interested. Point being Islam wasn't always just about chasing down women and beating them with rubber hoses for exposing their toes in public.
Allahu Akbar
witty.
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/syria-another-zionist-war-for-suckers-vi...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/10/us-invasion-of-syria-begins.ht...
Paveway,
i'm going to have to relent for now...suffering total exhaustion at present.
you've for a good while demonstrated your scholarly side here on the Hedge, and now i'm introduced to its gentlemanly counterpart. you impress me in all ways.
we will continue this in the future...but assuming for a moment that i had now the energy and time to properly respond, said response wold largely consist in my extending and layering texture atop a few of the points you've made...in that i basically agree. sure, i'm an unabashed occidentalist; but not even the most biased westerner would deny the arabs' their due.
also, it should be known that i am one of those wacky white guys who adores arabia. i've spent a bit of time in the area and came away enchanted. that being said, i likewise agree with your assessment of the present predicament in which the sunni side of things finds itself; only, the way i understand it, the lunacy gripping everything from jeddah to rhyiad and beyond was born in cairo...salifism, the brain child of mohammed something-or-the-other, was conceived and hatched in the years between the 2 great wars, probably at the behest of some 'you-know-whos', its theological tenets being the bastardization of accepted sunni orthodoxy, established ottoman traditions and was aggressively antithetical to every sensible and secular sunni leader from ataturk to saddam hussien.................
sadly, my guess is that the whole of the sunni world is going to suffer for the sins of the house of saud.
my friend, i really wish i could do this response a lil more justice; in that you have my sincerest respect...but i'm quite literally bleary eyed and can't keep them focused.
for now, i'll close by saying that my great and abiding hope is that, instead of a battle of the civilizations, we can participate in a paradigm which fosters a cooperative edification among this world's various cultures & civilizations -- in an atmosphere of dignity and mutual respect...and no, i'm not some limp-wristed hippy who spends his time playing hacky sack in doc martins -- even so, i do favor peace over war. moreover, i prefer a world of variety to one of bleak homogeneity.
cheers,
janus
Its hard to be a hater if you distill the psychopathy out of just about any social contrivance or -ism and consider what's really left. Which makes for nice academic arguments, but is never going to reflect reality. The more psychopathy you have to distill out of something for consideration, the less of a chance it ever has existing untouched or in some purer form on our planet. You have said something to this effect in your posts, Janus.
That leads to the unfortunate situation of discarding the bulk of our past and current social intelligence, and institutions because, in practice, they tend(ed) to be psychopath magnets. We make a choice (or are simply handed it at birth) and squabble about "My psychopaths are/will be less dangerous than yours".
That's why I'm always falling back on Woodchipperism. But when you distill the psychopathy out of that...
I enjoy your posts as always, Janus. Hope you stick around for a long time.
The battle between secular or religious moderates and the religious fanatics isn't a modern phenomenon or confined to Islam. Muslim precursors to the Wahhabi nutters sacked the university and observatory in Samarkand in the 15th century, shortly after it was built by a Muslim non-nutter. When the nutters aren't battling against science (be it astronomy or evolution) they're battling against the arts. The original iconoclasts where Christians in the land of Muhammad (before Muhammad), and after Muhammad's followers claimed that previously Christian iconoclast territory a new batch was born in northern Europe during the Protestant Reformation, only to be surpassed by the book burning, mythology coopting swastica cult of Adolf centuries later. Rinse, Repeat.
Nutterism and elimination of non-conformity is attractive to those who seek to gain power and maintain control. Even the secularist nutters aren't immune- hence the global warming cult's destruction and rewriting of temperature records to support their dogma.
UR, hypatia case in point.
...but she was a dangerous WITCH!
Healthy dose of scepticism, but if we are to embrace the c.12th century Baghdad contributions to mathematics you reference, we should keep in mind that this incident happened well over 100 miles east of Cairo which would notch that sunrise 10+ minutes earlier. Furthermore, at an altitude of 31,000 feet, sunrise would be even earlier than on the ground as one can see way further around the earth's curvature from such heights (e.g. at the Burj Khalifa, those living above the 80th floor need to fast for an extra two minutes during Ramadan, and those on the 150th floor and higher should wait for three more minutes before eating or drinking). 3rd part pictures of the same plane from other sources also show that it had a dark or gun-metal underbelly.
I am amazed how many here, as comment sections go, pretty smart crowd, think that video was authentic.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/10/us-invasion-of-syria-begins.ht...
Good catch.
There's also the small matter of the aircraft violating the laws of physics after the 'explosion' ...
«Rita Katz must be hungover.»
Good old Rita - from the Gabbai-Katz family of Baghdad - always looks much, much worse than simply hungover.....
as U [kraine], so S [inai]...
as claimed russian-made shot down plane over U
so yet-to-claimed us-made shot down plane over S...
so can one assume S will be war zone soon?
[removed]
The last gasp of a society in decline: When opinions become facts.
Russian press reports quoted unidentified sources as saying that the crew had recently complained about problems with one of the two engines on the plane that crashed, but there was no official confirmation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/world/middleeast/russian-plane-crashes-in-egypt-sinai-peninsula.html
Forgot the link. Sorry about entire length.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/libyan-missiles-on-the-loose/201...
Looks as if someone in CIA or State knew of these missiles leaving Libya and were blocking an investigation of ManPad acquisitions. "Someone" wanted these missiles in the hands of rebels/terrorists and Libya was the focal point of distribution. The CIA annex and State Consulate in Benghazi's only mission was to provide cover for the moving of arms,’ said a former intelligence official. ‘It had no real political role.’
manpads cannot reach 31,000 feet in altitude....if this flight was shot down by a missile it would have to be a fairly sophisticated weapon. If this flight's downing was not an accident my first suspicion would be a bomb on board and an inside job with the ground crew who should all be being held for extensive questioning right now unless some foreign entity with powers of persuasion are involved, from active attack to false flag. That will be the end of this tourists trade at the very least. I wonder who was all on bopard or what was? Very tragic however you look at this, but we all know us little people count for nothing when the power elites come out to play.
RT is saying an explosion has been ruled out. Probably mechanical. Black boxes recovered so we'll know soon enough. Plane suddenly decended very rapidly without even gliding. Even if both engines failed it would glide somewhat before crashing. Broke in two after hitting the ground so they say that rules out a missle or bomb.
If both engines failed, it could stay aloft for at least 40 minutes. I wonder if they'll give these Black Boxes to the Dutch? Seems to be all the rage.
So someone pulled the E-brake, stopped it in mid-air, and then it fell in one piece like a stone?
I wonder if you might be close. No one seems to be mentioning another option- get some jihadis on the plane, take the controls, and fly the plane straight into the ground, shouldn't need too much in the way of piloting skills for that. Perhaps this would be why the distress call story was retracted- too close to the truth.
All they need to do is watch to see which ground crew members suddenly start driving Ferraris, diamond rings for the misses, etc. Then nail 'em.
MANPADS do not go over 21,000 feet.
yeah which is why the Russians used jets to shoot down the passenger plane in Ukraine
You means the Ukrainians
i suspect you are too ignorant to appreciate the ignorance displayed by such a comment.
PTI,
Great information....but has anyone ever noticed these MSM definitions....
an "administration" always = the U.S....as in the "Obama administration"
a "government" always = a U.S ally.... "British goverenment" , a country the U.S. doesn't deem threating "South African goverment", a country that can't be outright militarily bullied...."Russian government"
a regime = any country that needs out intervention for the installation of "democracy"...or are on the U.S. shit list "North Korean regime"
The possibilities are endless, alec.
Have you stopped to consider, though, that this was an Airbus 321, whose pilot actually may have reported 'technical difficulties' before the plane took a nosedive?
NEVER LET A GOOD CRISIS GO TO WASTE!
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/31/russian-passenger-plane-crashes-...
I KNOW, 'Faux' news, and all; but something to consider seriously (SERIOUS question: Whose 'news' reported the ISIS MANPADS downing this jet? JEWTUBE, perhaps?).
'AIRBUS'.
It's like a WARNING LABEL, you know (FORD has a 'blue oval warning label' on the front...).
!
neither the SA-7 nor the SA-24 have the range, even operated from the highest point in the sinai, to take out a commercial airliner flying at 9km altitude.
"Thanks, DARPA!"
xoxoxoxo,
Your Friendly For-Hire "Terrorist"
But no really. Of course it wasn't some men in caves with boxcutters.
Can't get passed the production values of these ISIS videos. We get the act filmed, the professional framing and the scary Arab music all out to Reuters in record time. To say I'm skeptical would be a huge understatement.
Update: and now we get the copyright removal of the video from youtube because, hey, there's some money to be made here.
Smells like feels like Mossad, esp. w/video
right after they passed Eilat
Obviously they knew what was coming. The work it takes to video at that distance.......must have one powerful crystal ball.
Looks like a low-altitude FAKE .
Yep. That's what it is. The plane broke and crashed. Nobody filmed it. The rest is bullshit. Now, what happens because of said bullshit will get... interesting.
It wouldn't be that difficult, known flight plan the only plane in the area.
In case you don't know. You can track real time every plane nowadays by the free online application FlightRadar24.
http://www.flightradar24.com/48.4,13.02/7
Too funny – the entire world is covered with planes in flight except Africa.
dats raycists
Iphone and a flight tracker.
You seem to get it, there is no way this was shot down in the manner it is claimed without knowing the departure time and route of flight and really good binoculars. Much more likely to be a bomb by ground crew. Luggage compartment or maintenance access only.
So has the State Dep't blamed it on the Russians yet?
I mean they must have had their press releases ready way in advance, right?
Made by the CIA
my thoughts exactly.
That doesn't appear to be 4k, must be the 6s hasn't been released there yet.
And c'mon people, turn the phone - we like our POV without pillarboxing.
Exactly.people always say "the video can't be real, the production value is too high", but they don't realize a twelve year old with a iphone can whip up a video like that in less than a minute these days. Except, of course, they can't remember to turn the phone sideways!
Except a smartphone camera cant magnify a 200 foot plane at a distance of 31,000 feet to make it fill the screen that much.
wrong...
http://www.hammacher.com/Product/Default.aspx?sku=84602
I have one of these rigs and with the phone's 8MP cam zoomed full and the strap-on lens 18MP zoomed full, a plane at that altitude looks exactly like the video shown. Even with a firm mount the shake is a problem though....
My back of the napkin calculations indicate the zoom would have to be about 125x to capture the plane in that many pixels on an iPhone 5. In 35mm-equivalence, that's a about 6,250mm zoom. Not bad.
Obvious fake video by ISIS. Not once in 20 seconds did audio voice say Allaha Akbar.
If there were ever a WWIII that involved Russia, China, Japan, Europe and the USA - NOBODY will win and most certainly Europe a massive loser, Russia a massive loser and USA a massive loser, Japan obliterated, and China probably with enough remnants to recover first.
I think most American simply cannot contemplate that the USA would be destroyed in a WWIII, it would be inconceivable to them, but a hot war (inevitable) means exactlly that. So they pay little heed to what their govt is up to.
However, it's no surprised Putin has a 98% approval rating in Russia ... while Barry has less then a 38% rating in America.
38%? More likely in the teens, if that high.
Yes, thanks for correcting my error.
38...teens...whatever,
all them morons...
0.1 sounds about right, imho.
The FSA is 95 million strong so it would be no surprise if the number were around 30%. Add all the Soros/NPR brainwarshed far left "progressive" screw balls and you can get up to 38% easily.
Chicken. Balk, balk, balk… balk, balk…
"The only way to revive the US economy is start, and win, a major war"
You sir, truley are, a fucked in the head waste of skin. There are many ways to move forward with positive rational means that do not include mass genocide and democide but maybe you have bought into the lie that billions have to die in order for you to live.
but its the standard operating proceedure right out of the globalist playbook that they've been using since at least WW1
and if you think the potential death of hundreds of millions or billions of innocents would slow them down.....they would consider that a BONUS.
don't blame the messenger, blame the psychopathic freaks who do that sort of thing.
that type of plan might have worked before the military received weapons that can cause the end of human civilization on this planet.
the reptiles dont care about their human servants
Away with your "innovations"! A working system is already in place..
"Sorry folks, but Russia will not win the war."
Nope, just the banksters win (as usual).
Sounds like what Napoleon and Hitler said (or thought)
Dumb comment. So you think there will be a nice little conventional war to patch up the economy. Ha, ha. It would be nuclear so no need to worry about the economy.
"The only way to revive the US economy..." funny but in WW2 we had factories that could be converted to war time use. today we dont have factories. we havent had skilled machinist for 30 years. same for welders and all the other trades we sent to china in the 1980's. you dont just build out 100 years of factories overnight.
WW3 will be a new kind of war. all the high tech toys will last a few months and then nothing. no parts no software no bang bang. then it will be the obese feminist manginas usa and europe against the scrawny asians and the hard ass russians. the arabs wont show up at all as they will all kill each other. the african nations will just starve to death......
the satellites get knocked out first... then it is back to regional transmissions a.k.a. aloha net ping ponging and whatever fiber lines that haven't been torpedoed in the oceans
modern communication links are sitting targets
Laughable...you are living in a dream world based on the situation 50 years ago. Wake up!
The military aspect aside - that just demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of economics.
Is that you, Paul?
When? Is this another great chess move of wait and do nothing while everyone claims that is a master move to just wait until the dollar collapses some time in the future?
The US putting boots on the ground in Syria should have been expected. And could have been prevented. So if Putin is the chess master he wanted those boots there or he does not care as he does not want eastern Syria.
Massad/CIA controlled proxy terrorist just took down his plane. How long till we get a confirmation of his master counter move? You know, something real other than talk? He must have expected something like this being he is a master.
Unless he acts with decisive effectiveness this is just the beginning.
If is the beginning, i would hate to see what the end looks like
Ever read Swan Song?
By Robert McCammon? When I was 14 when it came out and it scared the living shit out of me. This is a likely end, minus the girl Swan who can breathe life back into the dead earth with her fingers.
Good read.
The Coming Anarchy: By Robert Kaplan
The intense savagery of the fighting in such diverse cultural settings as Liberia, Bosnia, the Caucasus, and Sri Lanka--to say nothing of what obtains in American inner cities—indicates something very troubling that those of us inside the stretch limo, concerned with issues like middle-class entitlements and the future of interactive cable television, lack the stomach to contemplate.
“America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.” — Abraham Lincoln
That quote is the height of irony, coming as it does, from Lincoln. He was on the inside, and did the destroying. So he would know.
It could be that he does not care because these troops will be embeded with terrorist groups and he will continue bombing them.
Russia has international law on it side here.
Most importantly, Russia has you on its side. :-)
Just because ISIS and its local orgs said it doesn't mean they DID it... they would have all kinds of reasons to make that statement, not the least of which would be to shove it up cetrain fat arrogant asses in Washington and Langley. That said, that plane didn't just decide to crash.
It's also unlikely that they just happened to be filming it as it exploded. Seems like they knew something was going to happen to that plane.
Since I'm not criminally insane, I have no idea what to make of this. "They" really ARE going to destroy the world in order to blame somebody else for destroying the economy? It's like burning down your house so your parents don't find your weed and rubbers.
they are freaks, arrogant psychopaths, and not as smart as they like to believe. their "genius" only exists because they have access to information that they spend vast efforts at concealing from the public
burning down the house is ok by them if it meant being sole inheriters of the ashes
"their "genius" only exists because they have access to information that they spend vast efforts at concealing from the public"
This is very insightful and concise. Thank you.
i think you are underestimating the ability of the west to cut off russia from trade and human movement.
you think russia can thrive solely by trading with china?
you think china is not going to take advantage of russia?
you think china's own internal commodity collapse isn't affecting demand for russian materials?
russia , as good as its consolidation of debt and capital as has been, is still living with the after effects of the soviet collapse. so it really remains to be seen how well their strategic defensive strategies will work for them.
my own prediction is that a falling tide sinks all boats and the decrept tactics of the west cannot conceal a generally imploding credit crisis that will fuck the entire world , not only the west.
the only winners will be the human beings that survive the massive number of civil unrests and insurrections all over the world.
it could just be a bad time for everyone.....
And that is where the usa will suffer most. With a majority of americans on the dole of some kind, social disability, welfare, medicare, medicaid, even school lunches,destruction of credit will tear the country in half. Think of it. At least half the country has no useful skill nor any ability to learn one. Instead, they require government to keep them alive. While it makes for easy brainwashing, it also makes for terrible citizenry when the bottom falls out. And winter hasnt even started yet.
good NEOCON plan, make Military Aged Males dependent upon enlisting for survival
Think Tanks think of everything when their goal is World Hegemony
they need destitution
97% on the dole.
Top 1% and academia heavily on the dole.
About 40% (conservative number) well overpaid, when compared worldwide.
“If the state loses its grip over your mind, it loses the key to its very survival” — Lew Rockwell
You think Zoorope can survive winter without GazProm?
Looks more like the ChestMaster(tm) made one.
I'm so over the build up. A blind monkey with a mental disability can see where this is going. Just get onto the main show already. Let the nukes fly and let us rebuild from the ashes already. Stop playing with us.
If you truly wish for that you're a cretin.
Moto, the only problem with that is that it may be a few centuries for the radioactivity to decay enough for the planet to be inhabitable again.