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Catalonia And The Move Against Empires
Submitted by Jeff Thomas via InternationalMan.com,
Recently, the people of Catalonia voted in favour of seceding from Spain.
In the recent election, secessionist parties secured 72 out of the 135 seats, confirming that the majority of voters want secession. Artur Mas, region president of Catalonia and the leader of the Junts pel Sí movement, is seeking independence from Spain in 18 months.
This is great news for libertarians the world over, as, to our minds, this is a clear step forward for the Catalan people and for those who seek greater freedom from governments worldwide. And, of course, any blow against the present trend toward empires is a step in the right direction.
But, this is not the whole picture and, if we’re going to look at the greater truth instead of the truth that we’d like to see, things get a bit more complicated.
Can They Pull it Off?
First off, the mere fact that a majority of Catalans have, at this point, voted for independence is not sufficient to assure separation from Spain. Although Catalonia became a province of Spain through a rather arbitrary occurrence (a royal marriage in 1469) and Catalans have for centuries repeatedly behaved more as a conquered people than as loyal Spanish subjects, the territory has remained under Spanish rule for the most obvious of reasons: Spain has the greater power and is able to dominate.
Although many Catalans seek a legally-recognised referendum from Madrid, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has called the separatist plan “a nonsense” and has stated that he will block it through the courts.
It is perennially true that, once a given politician in any country feels he “owns” a piece of geography and its population, he will almost invariably hold onto it regardless of the will of the people, using force if necessary.
And then, there are the practical benefits to being the ruler of a territory. In the case of Catalonia, Madrid has historically exacted more tax from Catalonia than it has paid out in benefits. Catalonia is a cash cow for the Madrid government. Surveys demonstrate that the majority of Catalans would choose to remain within Spain if they could be granted a more favourable tax regime.
And so, what appears at first glance to be a victory in the quest for independence may not be quite so significant.
Out of the Pan and into the Fire?
But, let’s say that the secessionists prevail, that they achieve their goal. What then? Would Catalonia become a beacon of freedom for all the world to see? Well, possibly not. Artur Mas has already planned a central bank, tax authority, and even a Catalonian armed forces. In so doing, he is hoping to begin his reign in much the same way that the vast majority of politicians do, seeking to create controls that will assure his own power and wealth. (Cue The Who, singing “Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.”)
And let’s not forget that all Catalans are not unified on the subject of independence. Polls over the years have flipped back and forth between a majority in favour of independence and a majority opposed to independence. As American independence visionary, Thomas Jefferson said:
Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.
In any move for independence, there are always those who unwillingly must pay for the new “freedom”, whether it be real or only imagined.
This is not to say that the secessionists are wrong. It is only to say that, when considering change, it’s wise to step back and assess the overall situation, not merely the immediate goals of the movement.
The Way of the Future?
Finally, there is the world view. Internationally, the vote in Catalonia is being covered in the media, especially in Europe, where there are literally scores of secessionist movements, some of them with considerable support. Catalonia gives these efforts renewed vigour and, surely, with the EU shaking to its flimsy foundations, every successful move toward secession by any territory brings an end of the EU ever closer.
And, to a lesser extent, there are secessionist movements around the globe. In the U.S., (which became a country as a result of independence from the UK), all 50 states have received secession petitions filed by their citizens. These have been signed by as few as 2,656 people (Vermont) to as many as 125,000 (Texas).
It’s important to note that these numbers are not large and the state and federal governments of the U.S. can easily claim that secessionists are merely a crackpot fringe. However, when the empire, be it the EU, the U.S., or any other, past or present, reaches the point at which the government has become overlarge, overly domineering, and overly rapacious as to taxation and other forms of confiscation, secession movements will arise. (To be sure, the 1861 American secession of the southern states was not undertaken over the slavery issue, but over the increased power and economic dominance of the northern states over the southern states.)
And this is to be expected. It’s the primary business of any government to grow its own power and wealth at the expense of its people. It’s therefore in the best interests of the people to do all they can to limit the size (and therefore the power) of their government.
Even under the best forms of Government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny. - Thomas Jefferson
A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson
Small countries are more free and prosperous than large nation-states. - Ron Holland
All of the above bear remembering. But a word on that last one, by Ron Holland. My own country, the Cayman Islands, is quite small (population 58,000); small enough that each of us who takes an interest can access our political leaders in a personal way. We find that this level of direct contract not only keeps them accessible to us, but places a lid on their ability to expand their ambitions to “rule”, rather than to “serve.”
And, indeed, the Cayman Islands are decidedly freer and more prosperous than any of the world’s current empires.
A long-held belief by the Amish, the Hutterites, and some sociologists is that the ideal population is a mere 150 people, the greatest number that an individual can relate to in a very personal and inter-dependent way. Certainly these communities are far more peaceful and rarely produce dictatorial leaders.
The concept of secession is an admirable one and a move to secession will often arise whenever a government overreaches to the point of intolerance. In the case of empires, secession has served to increase freedom from the days of the fall of the Roman Empire on. Political leaders will always seek to create empires, whether large or small. The alternative to the ability to secede is the acceptance of tyranny and, therefore, secession, whilst not a panacea, is an essential tool of liberty.
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How many "refugees" is Spain expected to get? Maybe any turmoil, real or perceived, will benefit Spaniards (and Catalons, and Basques, and Galicians, etc) in the long run.
just read a great article on this topic...should liberty-minded people support secession by local governments that aim to be ruled by socialists?
http://anarchiststandard.com/2015/10/the-path-to-liberty-developing-an-a...
"local governments that aim to be ruled by socialists?"
Flat anxwer is NO, and I'm armed and I know where you live.
Kind of squashes that notion, doesn't it?
That could squash it if it didn't work the other way as well. Which it does... for now.
not interested in a simple yes/no answer - what's your reasoning behind it?
try reading the article, it's thought-provoking, i considered that no might be the right answer as well, at first.
the author of the article makes a pretty solid argument that a more sure path to liberty is to say "yes", that de-centralizing the power of the state, supporting people choosing more self-rule locally, is the way to go.
That's the point!
ZH is soemtimes so absurd... ¿Nationalist Libertarians? ¡¡¡Come on!! are you serious??
1. These people are claiming for an cultural "normalization" of the region. They're damn close to pure old fascism in many of their views about freedon and the role of State. I can bing here hundreds of videos and paper interviews to support what I'm trying to explain, on request.
2. There are three parties in the secession farce: One is Extreme left, colectivist. Second is social-democrat. Third is plainly "Anticapitalist".
3. Catalonia will NEVER EVER be independent and EVERYONE knows that here in Catalonia and in Spain. All this mess is just an election campaign farce. The independence issue is they most effective way to herd the catalonian sheep. Every region has it's own favorite spam. Some people is easily fooled with feminist demagogy. Others with warmongering or supremacy, others with inmigration. In Catalonia, the best performing smokescreen has always been "identity" and "independence" bullshit. It works, so they use it on every campaign. That's all.
Maybe you need to be spaniard to understand this absurd way of playing politics.
sure, politicians are opportunists, you don't need to be a spaniard to understand that.
freedom and the role of the state: the role of the state is to dissolve itself completely, so that we can have freedom.
regional governments and currencies are the future.
software is out there to hold both accountable
the present deficits/indebtedness -and the worthlessness of those debts-of western socialist-states is an index of the costs necessary to forcefully and artificially sustain 19th-20th century modeled societies.
I hope it works out for them. It is nice to see people breaking away from evil shit govts and hopefully they want out of the evil EU.
California Republic
www.yescalifornia.org
+1, i support it.
however, freedom won't be gained by asking permission (voting), freedom must be taken.
just replace catalonias population with muslims and they will be ok
The second secession of the "South". ( as there will be a heck of a lot of the mid-west and Western states with us) should prove most interesting. One thing is for sure, you won't need your newly issues UN Global ID card...
See Libya.
Who's Barcelona gonna play against if they're not part of the Spanish League? Inquiring minds wanna know.
Catalonia will not be allowed to leave the Empire any more than Greece was. People continue to underestimate its power and reach.
Greeks were allowed to leave the EU, but leaving benefits of being a member behind.
Got to say this was an excellent read. Didn't the French Revolution produce similar jack offs that just got off on power and control? Cambodia?Hatii?....
Texas and California have some of the largest economies in the world and if Catalonia leaves Spain, they should take notice and do the same to the US.
California is a welfare state with almost one third of the nation's welfare recipients.
California also has almost 45 percent more people living in poverty than does Texas.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2012/jul/28/welfare-capital-of-...
http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/21/california-has-grown-welfare-while-tex...
SIMON BLACK IS THAT YOU JEFF??
i dislike the snarky tone of you islanders. looking down on everyone else..........
. ISLANDS LIKE THE CAYMANS HAVE NEVER BEEN FREE, THEY ARE ALWAYS JUST TERRITORIES OF NATIONS WITH NAVIES. IF YOU CANNOT BE THE SATRAP OF THE BRITISH, OR AMERICANS, YOU WILL BE THE SATRAP OF SOME OTHER SEA FARING NATION. you superficial analsyis of the catalonian situation doesn't interest anyone who sees the coming chaos of europe. this chaos is being cultivated intentionally by the EU as well as by the USA Atlantic alliance. the quesiton is where does the chaos of new regionalism/ city-statism lead to? a wrap up for super-regional entities like the EU? perhaps we should encourage secession of texas from the u.s. for the purpose of rebuilding a pan-american governance mechanism. we don't have a euro yet, so perhaps its tiem for the 'amero' as proposed by the trilaterals well over 20 years ago. we are now all south of the border............
What horseshit is this? this is not the will of the people, but that of another group of politicians who want moar power....the people are used as pawns and baited with emotion of a utopia with unicorns. I feel sorry for these people they are fucked either way. But i guess they want a new dick to take it from.
Yes. The choice they have is this government or that.
The new boot stompers are in an a awkward position, rhetorically speaking. "We need to secede, because government is evil. Therefore, I'm establishing a government."
I suppose most feel taking it from local dick you know and can relate to better is less egregious that taking it from a remote dick you don't know or have anything to do with.
Since people seem adamant to take dick one way or another, at least getting the concept of secession into people's heads as a legitimate thing is useful. Repeated secessions make smaller and small fiefdoms that then have to meaningfully compete for residents keeping their abuses in check.
And there is also hope people would get increasingly comfortable with the notion of seceding down to the level of the individual. Which is what actual freedom is.
California Republic
yescalifornia.org
The Catalonian gov't will be just as crooked as the Spanish gov't, they will be a EU member meaning that the people will still have to adhere to that bureaucracy's dictates about light bulbs and toilet flushing etc etc. so big deal, instead of being a Spanish EU slave, they will be Catalonian EU slaves.
They won't be member of the EU because in order to become that they would need the unanimous support of all EU countries and Spain will vote against that. The same reason why Kosovo cannot be part of the EU. 5 countries have not recognized it and unless they will they can't officially be part of the EU.
Edit - there might be some association agreement with the EU like Kosovo recently signed but Spain would very much try to prevent that as well.
sounds terrible. countries that want to join the "hell called EU" and the devils inside this hell forbidding them to enter?
but you forgot that if Spain and Catalonia find an amicable, friendly agreement then Spain has no reason to ban Catalonia from staying in this "hell on earth" as full member
¿?¿?¿?¿ Ghordius!!! Come on, friend!
An "amicable secession"? A deal to let an independent Catalonia join the EU? Catalonia wil NEVER EVER be independent. It's just a farce and I'd had bet you understood that from the beggining.
I'm shocked to read that thing from you. I invite you to discuss the issue as long as you want.
you have a very interesting definition for slavery: having to build light bulbs and toilet flushings according to the same regulations as others
perhaps the real and existing slaves of this world would mind your definition. though of course they aren't blogging on ZH, they are too busy to work for their captors or else...
Catalunya also stated that they will abolish cash and will introduce an electronic currency. How about controlling the masses better than abolishing cash? They have my sympathy because people have a right to self determination and they have been wanting this for centuries but abolishin cash is not the way to go. But the prospect future Catalunyan government wants to control the money flow so it doesn't leave the state which is perhaps understandable if you want to found a new country but in the end it won't be good for people.
Rich regions have the right of taking the part of the country we've been industralising and equipping (because of geographic commons sense) and leave. Is that?
Bah.
No army, no sovereignity. Full stop.
Democracy where 51% cam take 49% is only possible where the individual can not live free and ditch everyone else. I don't want any taxes zero and i don't care for ANY state welfare
I would say that secessionists have achieved the greater number of seats in parliament. However, they have not achieved majority of votes. This is because the representation in parliament is not strictly proportional to population.
Another issue is whether a 50%+1 votes grants the right to separate against constitutional law and whether that secession should be reversible a couple of years later by 50%+1 vote in the opposite direction.
If they had a referendum they would probably get a majority of the votes because some of Podemos voters, among others would vote in favor of independence, but that is not the key in this process.
The second article of the Spanish constitution clearly states: "La Constitucion se fundamental en la indisoluble unidad de la Nacion española, patria comun e indivisible de todos los españoles, y reconoce y garantiza el derecho a la autonomia de las nacionalidades y regiones que la integran y la solidaridad entre todas ellas." This pretty much translates into Spain is indivisible and it belongs TO ALL SPANIARDS. Which means: if you would like to change the constitution, then everybody votes, not just the Catalans. I am originally from Madrid, but Catalonia belongs as much to me as it does to them. I have the right to go to Catalonia whenever I want without the need for an ID or a passport of any kind and that right cannot be taken away from me unilaterally via a local vote in Catalonia.
By the way, when the Spanish Constitution was voted for in December 1978 via a referendum, c. 88% of voters voted "Yes". In Catalonia, c. 90.5% voted "Yes" and only c. 5% voted "No" so PLEASE, don't give me shit saying that there has been some imperialist oppression against the people in Catalonia (this refers to the article not your comment).
TRUE LIBERATION YEAH... MOVE FROM 1 RULER TO ANOTHER BEST CASE...
FORMER 20 YEARS PRESIDENT OF CATALONIA HAD EMBEZZLED 1,000MILLIONS EUROS...
HOW ABOUT THAT FREEDOM???!!!
LOL
STUPID ARTICLE
"Would Catalonia become a beacon of freedom for all the world to see? Well, possibly not. Artur Mas has already planned a central bank, tax authority, and even a Catalonian armed forces. In so doing, he is hoping to begin his reign in much the same way that the vast majority of politicians do, seeking to create controls that will assure his own power and wealth."
amazing kool-aid that this US "libertarian" is drinking
the Catalonian armed forces already exist, they are just integrated in the Spanish armed forces. meanwhile, the author moans about empires (citing the US and the EU as such). well, it's easy. either a sovereign has it's own armed forces, or it will depend from an "empire" (where "the EU empire" has no armed forces, btw)
the Catalonian tax authorities already exist, they are just integrated in the Spanish tax authorities. meanwhile, how does the author think he can convince Catalonians to abolish taxes?
a central bank? it's the same as for "the EU empire". Catalonian independentists don't strive for exiting the EU or the EUR, they just strive to exit... Spain. Is that so damn difficult to understand?
dear author, do us all a favour and show us what you mean with "a beacon of freedom". do your homework, do that at home and show us the results, instead of projecting your wishes and ideas on peoples and countries of which you don't seem to wish to know too much
To all the clever ZHedgers, that Im sure are the mayority; its tempting to apply the same model to things. (Big vs. small, little brave region against big bad empire, and so on...) About Cataluña, things are not that simple. To begin with, by the way, more than 50% of people voted NOT to secede. (Was about half and half, the mayority against). That said in case you really care from the remote countries ( from Spain) you can read this, just one hint: The most prominent separatist polititian, who ruled Cataluña for two decades since 80s has 3.000 million euros in his personal accounts in diffferent offshore accounts. (Yes, the number is ok, 3000 million euros made in 20 years by a single polititian). I have made business there corruption is off the charts, I doubt you can imag¡ne. And its not state corruption but local nacionalist government corruption. But, well believe what you want, its always less tiring to see Braveheart movie and then think any problem is just like that, you know bad big guy vs small...
Catalan Freedom fighters: all they want to do is pay less taxes, just like any other fiscal paradise.
So do I.
Remember for comparison how central Europe changed in exactly the way: empires dissolved by national (-istic movements). There was no independend Czech republic for hundreds of years, instead Prague was one of the main cities of the Holy Roman - German mpire. The dominating class was German (i.e. Austrian). In the course of the 19th century Czech people started to see themselves as distinctly not German, started cultivate their language, adpating it to the new times. Helped by the 1st WW, they were promised all of Bohemia and Moravia, former Austrian proveinces, with significant German population at the boundary, and got all of these lands. History proceeded, as well know, the result being that German inhabitants were exprelled. -- all in all not too bad a history.
Catalonia?
Kind of like taking it up the ass from Kiev without all the blown up bodies and shredded civilians.
This article is such bullshit... The catalan secessionists have always been a minority and historically represented 20-30% of the population in Catalonia. The recent crisis and the lies and propaganda of the local government have boosted that percentage towards 50%.
Agree with this author until the end when he touts the independence and integrity of the Cayman Islands!
Seriously? Cayman Islands is a British Overseas Territory. It's leaders are puppets or are puppeteers in service of the Crown.
What the fuck?