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Metrojet Latest: Doomed Russian Plane Plunged At 300 Miles Per Hour
Earlier today, we got the latest conflicting reports from the bevy of officials, “experts”, and investigators weighing in on the Russian passenger jet that fell out of the sky above the Sinai Peninsula.
According to Russian media, an Egyptian “forensic expert” has come to the conclusion that an explosion was likely the cause of the crash.
You needn’t be an “expert” to understand his logic. Essentially, he suggested that because body parts were scattered across such a wide radius, it seems likely that something on the plane blew up.
That doesn’t necessarily mean there was a bomb on board and indeed, if the plane’s tail wasn’t properly repaired after it struck a runway in 2001, it’s possible that a catastrophic failure resulting in a “violent explosion” could occur years later. Still, the fact that ISIS released a video purporting to show the plane exploding and the fact that the pilot did not contact anyone on the ground to indicate that anything had gone wrong, seems to suggest that something happened very quickly which resulted in the complete destruction of the aircraft.
Now, we get the latest on the ill-fated flight from Bloomberg and FlightRadar24, with the latter reporting that the plane essentially slowed down abruptly before falling out of the sky at 300 miles per hour. Here’s more:
The Russian plane that crashed Saturday in Egypt slowed suddenly and then plunged to the Earth at 300 miles (483 kilometers) per hour, according to revised data of its final moments captured by flight-tracking website FlightRadar24.
The Metrojet Airbus Group SE A321 carrying 224 people fell from 31,000 feet to 26,000 feet in the final 26 seconds, according to the final transmission from its radio transponder reporting information to the ground.
The new data is consistent with reports from Egyptian and Russian officials, who said that the plane came apart as it was flying at cruising altitude from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg. It also indicates that the plane’s direction of travel was wobbling from side to side, which would occur if it was coming apart.
It dropped gradually at first and then more rapidly as the plane’s forward speed slowed, according to the new data. By the last transmission, it was moving forward at only 54 miles (87 kilometers) an hour, far below a normal flying speed.
Raw data from the plane reported initially by FlightRadar24 suggested the aircraft was bucking up and down in its final seconds. The flight tracking firm now believes that altitude information was erroneous.
The newer information released Tuesday is based on global-positioning satellite data that the plane also transmitted, which the firm believes is more accurate, according to a posting on its website.
All of the above contradicts statements made earlier today by Egypt’s civil aviation ministry whose spokesman Mohamed Rahmi claims there's no proof that the plane came apart in the air.
In any event, this looks like further evidence that the plane did in fact explode, which means that either a tail strike that occurred in 2001 ultimately caused the plane to fall out of the sky 14 years later, or else someone detonated something on board.
The takeaway from the above is that this must have been an absolutely horrifying event - the plane explodes, the pieces basically stall at 31,000 feet before plummeting to the ground at 300 miles per hour. Once again, if there's any shred of evidence to corroborate claims that ISIS is responsible for this, you can expect the Russian Defense Ministry to begin airing daily videos depicting strikes on IS Sinai in short order.
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Good luck we're all counting on you!
And stop calling me Shirley.
300 MPH? Shirley you can't be serious.
Striker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqLjBJPi1Jw
It's not the fall that hurts - it's the suddend decrease in velocity at the end.
Rapid deceleration is a bitch.
Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
Have you ever seen a grown man naked ?
S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
The aerial shots of the crash site showed a perfect airplane outline like a pancake crash after a flat spin. A flat spin will likely detach the tail and spew things everywhere but it see's like the only way that the jet could hit the ground like a pancake. The g forces in a flat spin would prevent phone calls, radio messages or any other actions by the passengers or crew.
Yes. And people now seem to have forgotten that first reports on 31/10 indicated that rescue personel could hear survivors calling for help from the wreckage. Did the perpetrators, probably stationed near by (say east of the Sinai peninsula) drop by to finish their macabre job/ritual?
Was 300 just the forward velocity component? How was 300 obtained? Just curious. Fragmented plane parts would tend to catch a lot of wind and drag forces. This article should still consider a fuel tank problem for completeness.
Don't know. The headline read "plunges at 300 miles per hour." Not that ZH ever dabbles in hyperbole.
Isn't terminal velocity capped off at 128mph for a "falling" object?
For an adult human body, yes. For heavy metal objects like a bomb or high angle artillery shell, no!
every object has its own terminal velocity. a small cross section heavy object has a very high terminal velocity. a large cross section light object has a much lower terminal velocity. humans terminal velocity is around 120mph lying flat on their belloy, but terminal velocity of 240mph plus when standing on their head.
Given the 300 mph fall, the passenger would have been better off jumping out and achieve 120 mph.
If they had the opportunity, ability and presence of mind. They're dead either way, but at least they could have made phone 911 calls, like the 9/11 people. /s
So they could enjoy the view a little longer ?
Then splat.
Sorry about the gallows humor and the reference to bogus cell phone calls from the 9/11 people in rural PA.
Poor taste aside, it is conceivable that a person could have phoned as to what happened. Assuming they even had a phone signal (wich I highly doubt), presence of mind, etc, etc. Even if they had no bars, one might have used the smartphone to make a voice recording. In principle. But who, outside a TV drama or a Bond film, can think that fast, and under those conditions?
I would assume the lack of oxygen, the ambient air temperature, and the shock of depressurizing at 25,000+ ft. probably rendered the use of a cell phone moot. Now a GoPRo on the other hand...
Another post mentions the altitude. lack of oxygen and rapid depressurization probably killed everyone quickly. However I have spent much of my life around avaition and can tell you cell phone contact, even with a satellite phone. would not have been possible. Just try using a cell phone out on the tarmac and you'll find that even there it won't end well. The phones on the seat backs at best make contact with airline company devices, and they're very expensive and unreliable. However I can assure you that the cell phone calls over Pennsylvania were NOT possible, much less long conversation sand call backs. To have a cell ohone work on a plane in flight the plane has to be specially equipped, not many are , and very few were in 2001.
The point is, that it takes some serious aerodynamic efficiency to achieve 300 mph, when even the fastest, diving falcon achieves 180 mph, and the Terminal Velocity of a falling person is 120 mph. Something does not add up in this narrative.
I've noticed that when Authorities and the MSM throw out a host of conflicting bits of info, that the effect of the tragedy itself gets diluted by the preoccupation with the infotainment barrage. Bottom line:
Q1: Who did it?
Q2: What will Russia do about it?
Lots of small, large, soft and hard bits falling at differnt rates of speed. I would expect the "300mph" to be a very rough average. The non-functional engine would probably exceed 300mph while the fluffy suitcase might lag behind a bit.
Radar would probably record it all as an average.
Lots of small, large, soft and hard bits falling at differnt rates of speed. I would expect the "300mph" to be a very rough average. The non-functional engine would probably exceed 300mph while the fluffy suitcase might lag behind a bit.
Radar would probably record it all as an average.
Between 300 and 500 miles an hour is when planes go from having large sections to pulveration of all humans and equipment- NIST
Which is why the govts story on Shanksville is nothing but a FAT FUCKING LIE.
.
"...You needn’t be an “expert” to understand his logic. Essentially, he suggested that because body parts were scattered across such a wide radius, it seems likely that something on the plane blew up..."
And you don't need to be an expert to understand the flaw in his logic. The first one is that no 'logic' is necessary - the facts of whatever happened to the airliner (or at least how it affected it) are already recorded on the black boxes. The second flaw is that an A321 that suffers some kind of control and/or structural failure (for whatever reason) traveling that fast at that height, then spinning around in a very un-aerodynamic fashion for 30,000 ft. tends to tear whatever is left of the plane apart. The wings and wingbox (the trusses holding them together under the cabin) and the tail are sometimes strong enough to stay together. The rest sheds off as whatever is left of the aircraft spins towards the ground. The mere incident of a catastrophic structural failure at altitude itself is rare, but the pieces can be spread over miles. The fact that these were doesn't prove (logically or otherwise) that it was 'likely' an explosion.
"...Now, we get the latest on the ill-fated flight from Bloomberg and FlightRadar24, with the latter reporting that the plane essentially slowed down abruptly before falling out of the sky at 300 miles per hour..."
The speed reported from an ADS-B transponder comes from the flight computers, not GPS or external radar measurements. If the airspeed probes are attached to a chunk of aircraft that's tumbling and falling to earth, then you have no idea how fast anything was actually moving. If the probes are iced over, then the reading is meaningless. The transponder only reports an instantaneous value once every half-minute or so. To try to divine what was happening based on the last couple of well-spaced snapshots of a disintegrating aircraft is just stupid and a disservice to the crew and passengers. Especially since the flight data recorders have an orders-of-magnitude more detailed look at the last minutes of the aircraft. FlightRadar24 is always careful to warn people from reading too much into those figures. It's not a crash investigation tool.
"...All of the above contradicts statements made earlier today by Egypt’s civil aviation ministry whose spokesman Mohamed Rahmi claims there's no proof that the plane came apart in the air..."
But he was only emphasizing was that you can't PROVE anything from the debris field, alone. He wasn't arguing that the plane didn't come apart - he was saying that in the context of offering proof of structural failure, bomb, missile, etc.
"...Once again, if there's any shred of evidence to corroborate claims that ISIS is responsible for this, you can expect the Russian Defense Ministry to begin airing daily videos depicting strikes on IS Sinai in short order..."
Russians are not stupid. They have and will direct their anger at those responsible for creating and feeding al Qaeda/ISIS and its terrorist spawn. That would be the United States of American, Saudi Arabia and Qatar (with honorable mention to Israel and Turkey). Russia could blow away Toyota Hiluxes in the Sinai from now until kingdom come and it isn't going to make them one bit safer. The Russians are not as easily fooled by fake boogymen as the Kardashian crowd in the U.S. - if they want to stop ISIS, they would be much more effective by nuking Riyadh and Doha.
If we're lucky, perhaps Russia will turn the middle east into a mirror.
Yeah, we have bits that can drill thru glass so we can take the oils!
This today on RT: Russian and US air forces have staged joint drills to practice air safety measures in the skies over Syria, according to the Russian General Staff, which also reported that its military has begun to coordinate with Syria’s moderate opposition forces
And then there is the story about how Russia is holding meeting to find a compromise agreement with the "moderate opposition forces" types in regards to Assad and the future of Syria. Wait, was it not just last week that Russia said there was no difference between moderate and radical terrorist?
Maybe Russia got the message from the airliner crash. Assad should be careful and look deep into the motives of Putin at every step. If Russia intends to keep a part of the western coast at least Assad could try to be a figure head there.
>>>"...at least Assad could try to be a figure head there."
Yea, atop a spiked post.
"I love it when a plan comes together." Hannibal Smith; The A-Team
With that statement you are openly admitting support for terrorism when it produces a result that is desirable to you. You should be banned for supporting and cheering on terrorism.
It is a diplomatic way of telling the US keep keep its jets out of the way. After all, they are the ones committing acts of aggression, by carrying out military action in a country without either the permission of the government of said country or a UN resolution.
There's no point in making the US Obamination feel more butt hurt than necessary.
Russia helps Uke separatists without Uke permission ?
help are you talking about ? Had they been helping E.Ukraine would have separated by now and your putsch puppets would be.running to US and Israel or London for cover.
Suggesting the US keep it's jets out of the way?????
try this... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/03/u-s-brings-dogfighters-...
The Daily Beast does suck ZioCon donkey dick, so here's McCain's spin on the next escalation.
If this doesn't scare the shit out of you you're number than a cunt full of novacain.
apologies to MKD...
didn't look first.
to blankone
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/us-moving-f-15cs-to-fight-over-syria-2...
That would further indicate to me that Israel has not abandoned the goal for the US to take a large portion of Syria. That the US is moving forward in preparing to deploy not only troops but jets meant to move Russia out of taken air space.
Meanwhile, Russia coordinates with the force that is intent on taking Syria and removing Assad. The force that just took down one of Russia's airliners.
It is almost like Russia and Israel/US have an agreement and now Russia is trying to finalize an agreement with the few homegrown rebels. Russia and the homegrown rebels reside in the west and Israel/US/ISIS gets the east. With the current fight over where the border will be.
Right now, although it could change, Putin is losing his chess match. He should have been bold enough to enact international law and make all of Syria a nofly zone unless approved by Assad. And then pound the insurgents along with the field forces. Now look at what is happening. Air to Air jets from the US, playing nice and coordinating (getting approval for strikes also?) with the US, negotiating with the terrorist for a political compromise, airliners falling out of the sky, what next.
Correct me if I'm calculating something wrong, but falling 5,000 feet in 26 seconds (31,000 - 26,000) is like 130 mph, not 300. It doesn't make any difference in the ultimate outcome (obviously), but the math doesn't seem to match the narrative.
you can play around/plug in here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/airfri2.html
There is forward velocity and vertical velocity. 300 knots and 2500 feet per minute are all normal rates of forward speed and vertical speed.
It was stated that forward speed reduced to just 54 mph before the it came down. Why did forward speed then increase to 300 mph after the engines were dead?
Because explosions create forward acceleration. Missld hits the plane, forward kinetic energy causes the plane to rapidly stall, couple seconds later, boom. Acceleration.
That was the final 26 seconds of data transmission from the transponder, not the final 26 seconds of the flight.
Planes also don't just "fall" out of the sky. This plane likely had significant forward velocity in addition to vertical velocity. Let's say 500 mph during those same 26 seconds, which is 19,066 feet. That means the plane was descending at an angle of 15.2 degrees from horizontal. Hardly "falling out of the sky".
I appreciate the comment, and the math attached thereto. I'd get out my protractor to test your calculations, but you seem like an honest bloke!
likely had?
not to be a dick but that's the only way planes can fly.
There's the speed as it was falling .... then there's the vertical drop rate ?
One would think KGB assasinations would follow as well.
Not KGB but I am certain the its Russian replacement will be very busy soon
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Don't these planes fly a few hundred miles an hour to start? Momentum from the flight makes this unsurprising. ZH loves this topic.
Vlad should take it to Saudi Arabia where it belongs. Take the whole fucking place out
Would have to take out all the madrasses worldwide as well.
https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/10/22/zionist-daesh-in-irak/
We used to call them spies .... or infiltrators ?
One of the MANPADS that the cunt Clinton was running through Benghazi that was stolen the night of the attack. was used to shoot this mutha down......................... Great campaign material for the Trump.
Looks like this was a bad week to start randomly filming jets in the desert
The video, the confirmation of an explosion, the debris pattern... if it walks like a duck...
Besides, Russia should have expected this, I'm surprised we haven't seen more "Boris with no head" propaganda videos from ISIS. They probably have Steven Spielberg working for them.
JAL123.
The falling people got to watch the plane smack the planet, just before they landed in the debris field.
"The terminal velocity of a falling human being with arms and legs outstretched is about 120 miles per hour (192 km per hour) — slower than a lead balloon, but a good deal faster than a feather!"
That 'terminal velocity' is quite a bit different with legs and hands - um, 'overstretched'...but then, at that point it's beyond terminal.
kinda hard to stretch out your arms and legs when they have been blown off. what is the terminal velocity of a torso...!?
Sounds like the same speed that the World Trade Center towers fell at, and most likely by the same people.
You folks voting negative on this really need to check out the evidence at
http://www.ae911truth.org/
That's the biggest bunch of loony toons around. Goes to prove that the MIND is the first thing to go when people get old.
Not by the same people. The towers were downed by the CIA, the plane by the Russians. Both were false flags, but, after that, there is no common factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_velocity
Gravity a bitch!
Here's another plausible theory that fits the evidence as well as any. Was it struck by a military drone, which can fly far higher than this and are large enough to inflict fatal damage upon the structure.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/jack-perry/us-drone-russian-metrojet/
Actually it flew into a big flock of black swans causing both engines to explode. IMHO.
Value Jet may still hold the record plunge at 500+mph, if I recall..
Why aren't all planes made out of black box material ??
Hitlary's muff can only stretch so far.
same for obama's bung hole. reggies pet name for it is 'black box'...
versus what? black hole?
Egyptian police detain and interrogate ground staff at Sharm al Sheik.
Russia consults EL Al about enhanced security measures at airports.
The Bloomberg article this was based on is poorly written. This jet cruises at about 640 mph, so a horizontal speed of 300 mph would not constitute "plummeting." And, a vertical speed of 300 mph is unlikely if it had exploded -- only if it was somehow under power. And, I doubt the final 26 seconds saw it fall to 26,000 ft unless there's a previously uncharted Egyptian mountain range.
640 mph .... isn't that high .... that's almost Mach 1 .... things fall fast in space .... near the ground the vertical speed would slow down .... especially if it was helicoptering like a maple seed ?
Have you ever even flown in an airplane?
I have yet to fly one that goes that fast and they all provide that info in the flight magazines.
They are normally in the 500 to 550 mph range.
Execute the ground crew .... maybe one will spill the beans .... to save his neck .... get bold and imaginative and decisive .... I despise weakness !
At 23:17, the thrust reverser on the number one engine deployed while the plane was over mountainous jungle terrain in the border area between Suphanburi and Uthai Thani provinces in Thailand. Thurner's last recorded words were, "Oh, reverser's deployed."[4][5] The lift on the aircraft's left side was disrupted due to the reverser deployment, and the aircraft was placed in an immediate diving left turn. The aircraft went into a diving speed of mach 0.99, which may have broken the sound barrier. The aircraft broke up in mid-air on the way down at 4,000 feet (1,200 meters).[6] Most of the wreckage was scattered over a remote forest area roughly 1 km2 in size, at an elevation of 600 m above sea level, in what is now Phu Toei National Park, Suphanburi.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6vN_QnwmKhs
AIR-STUXNET??
Dude tyler. Are you really thay clueless??
This calculation of terminal velocity of a skyjumper from <5000 meters.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/JianHuang.shtml
Just how much terminal velocities of that jumper, dude tyler?? Remember this planes falling in pieces from MUCH HIGHER ALTITUDES!! It will falling at much higher terminal velocities.
Again, it doesn't take genius to figure this one out.
Aren't you supposed to learns this physics principles back in Highschool??
Really dude tyler? You need to learn more..
What in the fuck are you talking about?
Terminal velocity is determined by AIR RESISTANCE, not altitude.
Tell us, why does a skydiver slow down after his parachute is deployed? Shouldn't he just keep accelerating? Because that's what you're saying.
>>>Again, it doesn't take genius to figure this one out.<<<
No it does not, but it does take a dumb ass to get all confused and realise that once you reach that speed you will not go any faster.
Could be a concerted Tulip Barbie revenge for MH17?
How fucking long does it take .... to hear five minutes .... of the "orange is the new black" box voice recorder .... about five minutes, right .... ho lee fuk ?
It would help if the author used definitions that match what the rest of us use. A structural failure is not, by any stretch of the imagination, an 'explosion'. There are two causes for the crash under investigation using definitions that the rest of the world uses: Structural failure or explosion.
The second point that the author seems to not understand is basic aircraft design. All commercial aircraft have tails that generate negative lift to provide stable forward flight. Cut the tail off and the nose will drop like a rock and the aircraft will fly straight down (more or less) at a high speed. So the data he seems to quote is really no surprise in the case of either a structural failure or an explosion.
"...if the plane’s tail wasn’t properly repaired after it struck a runway in 2001, it’s possible that a catastrophic failure resulting in a “violent explosion” could occur years later."
I am certainly no expert on these matters, but... Can someone with knowledge of these things please close the gap between a tail strike and a violent explosion...?
It's a stretch but, if in coming apart, metal strikes metal near fuel, causing a spark. It's a stretch. Or wiring sparks. Still a stretch but these things happen.
I worked at Pratt and Whitney and, whenever there was a crash, our hearts would go into our mouths. It would, frequently, take months or years before a final statement was released, stating the cause of the crash.
The first statements about this crash were incorrect, leading to false conclusions. Best to wait.
I suspect Putin is waiting and watching for investigators' conclusions.
Aircraft are actually designed and tested to remain airworthy after a tail drag.
Also, since that tail drag incident was almost 15 years ago, and there is no question that aircraft would have undergone MANY periodic structural checks during that time. Depending on the level of the check, it can include taking everything out of the interior (all interior panels, seats, floors, ceiling, etc) and checking every inch of the aircraft in detail.
These heavy maintenance checks can run tens of millions of dollars and take 3 to 6 months.
That aircraft had over 50,000 hours, and might have already had a full rehab? Not sure what the certificate allows, but it's around that hour/landing cycle rating.
The issue with a repair is that if there is a defect in what was done, then there could be metal fatigue over time where a crack develops and it could eventually reach a point where the crack is so serious that a quick structural failure can occur. If anything with a lot of mass can suddenly move in ways it's not supposed to, then something could get punctured like a fuel tank, or some section of the aircraft could fall off.
Here is a link on metal fatigue in aircraft. http://www.brightworkpolish.com/aviation-metal-fatigue-what-you-should-k...
a tail strike is when reggie backs up and rams it home. an explosion is well i'll let you figure that one out.
One more possibility for the seekers of truth
Was the Russian Metrojet plane shot down by Israeli or American missile during "Blue Flag 2015" exercises?
"Israeli and Western bloggers are linking the plane crash "Metrojet-9268" to "Blue Flag 2015" air exercises conducted in the area of the crash. These are the largest exercises of the Israeli air force with participation of the U.S. Air Force, Poland and Greece. ... Israeli and American planes simulated air duels, simulated fighting two dozens kilometers from the crash site of the Russian aircraft."
http://fortruss.blogspot.co.nz/2015/11/was-russian-metrojet-plane-shot-d...
On your marks, get set, speculate!
If I were ISIS, I would go after the oligarchs and specific warmongering politicians who have injured me and mine, NOT innocents but then, I'm not iSIS.
I'm surprised the Russians let this happen .... do they believe the hype that they .... are more loved than the Americans .... or the Joos .... they gotta stop reading ZH ?
I would believe 300 kmh (186) mph based on altitude and the laws of physics in free fall/terminal velocity
how does the tail breaking cause an explosion when the fuel is in the wings? i can see the breakup part but not an explosion...without a bomb.
That's max speed through air. If the air is moving in the same direction as the aircraft, say at 100mph for example, this adds 100 mph to the ground speed of the A/C. So if it's max speed is 540mph in still air, in a jet stream blowing in the same direction as the plane, the ground speed is 640mph.
Plenty of wreckage found here, but not a trace of the 9/11 plane that crashed in PA. What gives?
If this is like the jet that flew into the pentagram...why are there so many pieces and body parts?
I think what amazes me the most is how the crash site looks nothing like that 9/11 bullshit where the plane in the field just basically disintegrated. Funny how nothing outside of that day (plane crashes, steel structure buildings being on fire, buildings collapsing) matches the official narrative. Must have been something divine that caused that single day's events to not match reality outside of it and caused physics that day to be suspended rather than oh I don't know, the official narrative is complete horseshit...
Looks like ISIS really did shoot it down. This is not going to end well, evidence here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN76HA-oIqo
A shoulder launched missle down an airliner at 10,000m?
of course it did....
Squid
Egyptian security forces are interviewing the catering company that delivered food to the plane. This makes sense. If a bomb was stored in a food container in the galley in the rear and BOOM. Tail is knocked off, depressurization occurs, plane goes into immediate spin, engines are still at cruising thrust, pilots are so focused on trying to fix it they have no time for radio comms, done.
CabalA$$LickerLiarHomObama : 'Hah ha ha , 224 white people gone , nice very nice'