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Have You Heard Of This Digital Currency That's A Total Scam?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Simon Black via SovereignMan.com,

It was back in May 2010 that the very first ‘real world’ Bitcoin transaction was conducted: 10,000 bitcoins traded for two Papa John’s pizzas.

Today that transaction would be worth nearly $4 million, probably making those the most expensive pizzas in the history of the world.

But back then it was considered revolutionary to trade a ‘digital’ currency, something that few people really understood at the time, for a real product.

People are still skeptical of digital currency. But the concept itself is not so esoteric.

As Jim Rickards reminded me some time ago, MOST currencies are digital, even the US dollar.

The Federal Reserve’s estimate of US dollar money supply is $12.1 trillion; yet only about 10% of that is physical cash in circulation.

The rest—more than $10 trillion—is simply a series of entries in banks’ core system databases.

In other words, the money in your savings account isn’t piled up inside your bank’s vault. Far from it.

Your savings doesn’t really exist. It’s all just digits in an electronic account ledger.

And yet we transact with these digital currency units all the time.

Whenever you use a credit card or send a bank transfer, you’re using the digital form of your currency.

This concept actually dates back to the Middle Ages when Italian bankers realized that they could conduct their transactions without physical money.

Rather than risk transporting gold coins across the countryside, medieval bankers merely annotated their ledgers with debit and credit entries.

They didn’t have the computers, but it was the same concept– they kept track of transactions and balances on account ledgers, instead of with physical money.

In the late 1960s, the IMF took this idea to the next level when they created their own digital currency for the exclusive use of governments and central banks.

They’re called Special Drawing Rights (SDR, or XDR).

And even though the IMF’s balance sheet totals nearly 300 billion SDR (around $211 billion USD), not a single SDR exists in physical form.

100% of the SDR money supply is digital. Just like Bitcoin, it exists in computer databases, making it the digital equivalent of a 500-year old accounting system.

There is one key difference, though.

No one controls Bitcoin. But dollars, euros, SDR, etc., are controlled by central banks.

Federal Reserve, Banque du Canada, Bank of Japan, etc. all decide how much of their currencies to create.

The SDR in particular is a total scam; the entire reason it was created was because the system didn’t have enough real savings.

So they ‘solved’ the problem by creating a new digital currency that allowed them to easily conjure more money out of thin air.

But the even bigger risk is the commercial banks, which control your account balances. They keep all the records and ledgers, they hold all the keys.

This means that the ‘money’ in your savings account isn’t really yours. You don’t actually have any savings.

What you really have is a claim on your bank’s savings. Your account is just an entry in the liability column of their digital ledger.

When you make a deposit, you’re trading your money for a banker’s promise to repay you.

And there are countless regulations giving them the authority to break that promise.

(If you want to test this premise, try withdrawing $25,000 just to see how your bank reacts.)

That’s the system that controls your wealth today. It’s almost entirely digital. And it’s run by unelected bureaucrats whose interests are not aligned with your own.

This is not a free system. And any rational person should consider parking at least a rainy day fund outside of this system.

Bitcoin is certainly one option.

No one controls it, which is a novel concept in an era when governments and central banks control everything from the value of your savings to what you can/cannot put in your own body.

But if Bitcoin isn’t your flavor just yet, consider other options.

Gold and silver still have incredible merit since they cannot be conjured out of thin air by central banks.

And even holding physical cash is a much better alternative than keeping everything inside a highly centralized banking system.

 

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Wed, 11/04/2015 - 17:45 | 6750403 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

hmm.. bitcoin... at least the silkroad is back.. the black market alwasy supported BTC early on..

Bitcoin’s Civil War 
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:58 | 6750816 coinhead
coinhead's picture

People have been using digital currency since 1969.  Most are just too dumb to realize it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:21 | 6750601 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Bitcoin is for the rama lama ding dong rainbow skittle shitting unicorn Klingons from Uranus libtard fuck faces that think all the worlds problems will be solved with phone apps.

IF IT IS NOT A USEFUL COMMODITY IN YOUR POSSESSION, IT DOES NOT EXIST YOU DUMB ASSED MOTHERFUCKING TECHNOSHEEPLE.

Bitcoin is an easily manipulated stock market style pump and dump money maker - for the .0001 percent.

Everyone else gets boot fucked with electron sprinkles on their fucking libtard cupcakes.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:25 | 6750627 demi urge
demi urge's picture

It won't be able to be maniputed nearly so easily once the market cap starts to approach the multiple tens of billions.

Every other market is manipulated AT LEAST as much.

All you have to do is put it on a USB stick for it to be 'in your posession." No phone necessary.

It's actually an incredibly 'conservative' tool... libtards? Stupid.

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:35 | 6750689 Arnold
Arnold's picture

I guess we all need our fantasies to keep us getting up in the morning.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:02 | 6750849 venturen
venturen's picture

were you born yesterday?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:12 | 6750905 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Riiiggghhhhttttt.

Try trading your imaginary currency for food with no internet.

" I got money, it is in this usb stick, honest. "

I hope you got a purdy mouth...................

Otherwise, you are fucked, literally, and figuratively.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:42 | 6751090 Grave
Grave's picture

you stone age flatearthers crack me up :)

you can print your bitcoins private keys on paper, wood, gold coins, chicked skin, etc
you can even memorize them and no one will be able to steal them

you dont even need internet, all you need is consensus between blockchain keepers (nodes)

good luck with trading gold for food in your stone age world, you will be robbed, laughed at and then killed, because thats a world of killers

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:55 | 6751184 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Grave, I think not.

Offer someone a choice between your bitcoin private key, and a USD twenty dollar gold coin.

Which one do you think will have value in the eyes of the beholder ?

But, I digress. Gold and silver are for orderly barter and trade within the physical reality we actually exist within.

They are a small component of that which keeps you alive - physical commodities possessed by you, which should be at least eighty percent of your investments.

Land, water, food, and skills.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:43 | 6751234 Grave
Grave's picture

actually human beings are fully virtual entities that become self-aware as our hardware (brain) develops to a point where consciousness emerges

your body is just a hardware, a genetic survival machine, and you as a sentient being are a complex control system.

we learn and accumulate knowledge which inevitable leads towards technological singularity - a point in our evolution where we can finally stop being slaves of our genetic survival machines and become posthumans

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:07 | 6751553 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Great news.

Don't bother keeping a sensory deprivation tank with complimentary umbilical connectors free for me in the Matrix.

Huge difference between self awareness, cosmic consciousness, evolution of the species, and a fucking role playing video game in a Matrix pod manipulated by the physical world .0001 percent overlords.

My way, you don't need Shitcoin - you just manifest that which you put your attention upon.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:26 | 6751647 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

"Which one do you think will have value in the eyes of the beholder ?"

I think that depends on whether or not the beholder is the type of person who is easily fascinated by shiny things.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 04:57 | 6752695 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

You think anyone will give a flying fuck about their bitcoins if there is no internet/no functioning society? Seriously? You really are slower than you make yourself out to be.

Maybe the thousands of rounds of .22 LR most people on here have stashed will help "us" trade something tangeable for the things we may need during the apocalpse?

Moron.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:58 | 6750824 Chia-Pet
Chia-Pet's picture

Upvoting for poetics. Flucking brilliant!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:59 | 6750828 coinhead
coinhead's picture

You don't have a goddamn clue what the fuck you are talking about SILVERGEDDON.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:04 | 6750863 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Blow me, you sad pathetic little Fonestar wannabe.

You sit on your electronic fakey doo manipulated currency wannabe dildo coins.

I will settle for land, water, crops, silver, gold, copper, lead, and brass.

Lets see which of us is still alive and well in 30 years.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:11 | 6750876 coinhead
coinhead's picture

We is not a fonestar wannabe you dumb fuck, we is fonestar.  And why teh fuck do we need to decide between owning gold and Bitcoin?  You accuse other people of being sheeple but your binary "either/or" limited logic operations screams "SHEEPLE"!!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:17 | 6750938 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Sure. See you at 600 yards with 42 grains of 4064 under a 175 gr htbp, and we will see who has limited logic.

Try keeping warm at your Bitcoin camp fire.

Own whatever the fuck you wanna own, but don't keep talking the Bitcoin book like it is the second coming of Christ.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE TANGIBLE ASSETS IN PHYSICAL FORM IN YOUR POSSESSION, YOU OWN NOTHING.

There it is, in all of it's simplicity.

Even a Fonesatar can comprehend it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:25 | 6750999 coinhead
coinhead's picture

Bitcoin is teh coming of teh Cyberchrist we think.  You think Bitcoiners do not own guns you dumbass?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:49 | 6751138 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

I think you keep pimping the Shitcoin so you can pump and dump, shearing muppets to line your own nest at the expense of others.

Sign of the times.

" Beware of false prophets. "

Assholes like you are The Mark Of The Beast.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:57 | 6751190 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Tough to pump and dump as a small timer when it's doing $50 million fucking dollars in volume a day.  LMAO

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:58 | 6751194 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Oh! You can burn Gold!  And Silver?!?!  THAT'S AMAZING!

 

A gold fire.... who knew!?!?

 

I mean, seems rough on the wealth storage aspect of it, but that's pretty damn cool, i have to admit.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:11 | 6751565 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Yeah, I would think a pre 1964 quarter will buy a cord of firewood, delivered and stacked in the not too distant future.

A twenty dollar gold piece would probably buy you 800 cords of firewood, and the wood cutters teenage daughter for a weekend of horizontal calisthenics.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 04:47 | 6752690 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

God you do bang on.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:05 | 6750869 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Yep, me gold commodity sure comes in handy when my neighbors are fashioning analog audio equipment from scratch.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:18 | 6751599 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I'm waiting for EMP proof bitcoin

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 16:34 | 6754893 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Totally, just the other night we had an EMP in our neighborhood and I was all like, jeesh, when they gonna start selling copper foil at Costco?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:03 | 6750855 coinhead
coinhead's picture

hmm.. bitcoin... at least the silkroad is back.. the black market alwasy supported BTC early on..

 

That's right... you can buy hookers, blow and guns using Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is money.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 17:47 | 6750415 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Long precious metals.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 17:49 | 6750433 Spungo
Spungo's picture

Long precious bodily fluids. They will never corrupt my essence of purity. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:15 | 6750568 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

purity of essence = peace on earth

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:29 | 6750653 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

I said "feed me Mandrake"...and you fed me

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 17:57 | 6750461 Skeeterworborton
Skeeterworborton's picture

sombody controls Bitcoin.....we couldn't  just have some digital currency running around all willy nilly....

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:16 | 6750582 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

yes, yes we do control it, thanks very much.

much better that we control it than let some central bank or even non-central bank control our currency.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 17:57 | 6750468 nnnnnn
nnnnnn's picture

bitcoin?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:02 | 6750476 White Mountains
White Mountains's picture

BitCoin baby.  With Fiat currencies, they print as much as they want to fund endless wars, endless welfare state.  Can't do that with BitCoin.

Paper Gold and Paper Silver are really messing with the value of physical.  Can't do that with BitCoin.

BitCoin is the fiat killer.  Be your own banker.

Someone will down vote this.  They haven't a clue what BitCoin is, don't want to bother learning, and so will claim to hate it not knowing anything about it.  Good.  They can go down with the ship.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:29 | 6750642 cigarEngineer
cigarEngineer's picture

Many people hate on BitCoin because it's not an all-purpose solution. 

Almost everyone who hates on BitCoin ignores that it's greatest strength is very quick, semi-anonymous transfers to anywhere in the world. It's a great help with internet commerce. 

No sane proponent of BitCoin is telling you to bet the farm on BitCoin. It's not an investment. It's a currency. And it's doing far better than any currency ever in existance.

Right now, you can't beat BitCoin for easy, cheap worldwide transfers. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:02 | 6750851 Chia-Pet
Chia-Pet's picture

PayPal

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:04 | 6750864 coinhead
coinhead's picture

are you fucking serious you tard?  PayPal assisted in blocking Wikileaks!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:56 | 6751187 demi urge
Thu, 11/05/2015 - 15:03 | 6754477 fallout11
fallout11's picture

The Russians I buy military hardware from take Paypal. They do not take Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:07 | 6750522 demi urge
demi urge's picture

The downplaying/pushback/hesitancy by ZH commentors regarding BTC has always confused me.

 

It's the world's most diverse credit union.  Decentralized risk.  Decentralized production.

It has 'regulations,' they're just embedded in the code.

There are flaws with it, but there is now a thriving cryptocommodocurrency world that can be run to, in a matter of seconds, if for some reason bitcoin itself (although it's nobly weathered all storms thus far, an amazing feat) ends up being flawed.

BTC is one of the most humanist experiments in history.  Power to the people.  Recreating the system from the inside out.  

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:33 | 6750682 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Lol!

You crack me up ZH'ers. 

It's all good... ignore the future, buy your paper gold, and keep tilting at windmills without ever participating in legitimate solutions.

 

DOWNVOTE AWAY!!!

::clears pad for a hard landing::

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:38 | 6750712 Arnold
Arnold's picture

You should have a professional promoter.

You are not doing a good job of it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:07 | 6750883 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Paper gold ?

You think moi would touch paper gold ?

Paper gold is just another form of Bitcoin.

Hasta la vista, dick wad.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:55 | 6751177 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Lol, right, you're just gonna carry around some thousand pounds of metal.

Good luck with that... watch out for snipers.  Those donkeys pulling your metal don't hold up well to bullets.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:18 | 6751600 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Naahh. I am just going to relax on my acreage, grow food, tend to my livestock, and keep the perimeter on overwatch 24 / 7 / 365.

Lots of like minded people would prefer a community like that, where you can trust the man guarding your six with your life.

Lots of people want reality, not fantasy. .

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:45 | 6751728 undertow1141
undertow1141's picture

You mean a voluntary community, as opposed to the coerced one we have. Where I trust my neighbor because I know him willingly. Where we probably share similar values moral and ethical styles. Nah, who'd want that.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:55 | 6751178 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Lol, right, you're just gonna carry around some thousand pounds of metal.

Good luck with that... watch out for snipers.  Those donkeys pulling your metal don't hold up well to bullets.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:40 | 6751419 undertow1141
undertow1141's picture

And when you get locked out of the internet and your cell phone stops working. Where will you get you bitcoin? 

If the world were at a cart full of gold with mules, you think you still have the interwebs? 

Bitcoiners are like bigfoot hunters and snipe hunters. All chasing a dream. 

After the reset, what currency will you convert your bitcoins into for spending?

Where will you go to do this conversion?

What will bitcoins be worth if the dollar crashes, it seems to be valued in FRNs. Who cares if it is worth 100k dollars if the dollar is worth nothing.

You don't see these problems?

If you base a currency's value on nothing, it is worth exactly that.

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 04:44 | 6752687 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Bitcoin is a bet on a succesful (and continuing) digital future, it is not designed for riding out the doom and gloom immediately pending societal and economic apocalypse.

Get a grip man.

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:36 | 6750696 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

LOL, "diverse" LOL. Network nodes are 80% in China. More than 50% of the computing that runs the network is in China, a major chunk operated in a cave by a guy known only as "friedcat". 85% of usage is by Chinese gamblers, 14% by malware and other scammers, 1% by real-world usage. Doing 5 transactions per second max, oops Visa is 70,000. Major governments like Russia and Taiwan declaring it is illegal to hold. 50% of coins held by < 1000 people, 350,000 people total have > 1 BTC.

I think the Zambian kwacha is more diverse.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:41 | 6750726 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Bitcoin may not end up being the winner of the cryptocurrency wars.  No qualms saying that.

And the blockchain may end up being the most transformative, disruptive tech that comes from it.

I'll go ahead and take your Kwacha bet.

Growing a currency is a bit like starting a country in 2010... gotta look out 20... 40... 100 years.  Disbarring the notion of relevance due to the first 5 is... cute.  Very cute.

 

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:10 | 6750896 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

The question is whether to hold as a store of value, not very effective with a 40 or 100 year holding period. As a short-term Ponzi it's pretty cool though. Not much different from FRNs at the end of the day except the USD can say you must use their crypto-currency to pay your taxes.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:38 | 6751067 inhibi
inhibi's picture

The question is will BitCoin always be a major player? And will BitCoin trading hubs always be able to convert to varios currencies?

 

Those that think BitCoin is money...youre only half right. Because fiat is always the endgame. For example, when i bought a pound of herb on SilkRoad, the other guy on the end is looking at the money, not BTC. BTC is merely the transacter, if you will.

 

Another example: a chinese bsinessesman wants to send capital overseas. He cant do it legally so he uses BitCoin. Once again, the endgame isnt BitCoins, but the conversion of BTC to fiat.

 

Therefore, BTC only has value as long as it is tied to fiat. And it is only able to be tied to fiat if there exists no other way of anonymously transacting currency.

 

So you see, BTC's life is dependent on no other competitor coming into the TRANSACTION game, not the DIGITAL CURRENCY game.

Its a means of transaction. Its wealth is intrinsically tied to its value in transactions, and its a niche market: mainly trying to circumvent government regulated currency transactions or off record CT.

At the end of the day, your paying for your food and rent in dollars. Even if they ask you for BTC, you have to get BTC (requires dollars) and eventually they will convert to dollars. There are no 'pure' BTC to BTC transactions that end in physical. You would do well to remember that.

And dont get me wrong: I love BTC. Made akilling on it back when it was $30/btc.

 

But to become a true currency requires more than just transaction ability: it needs to be insured/backed by something. It needs to have history. It needs to provide the basics.

 

BTC is overrated in this.

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:52 | 6751158 demi urge
demi urge's picture

You can only create a history by starting somehwere.

Everyone wants it to be full-fledged right out of the birth canal... THAT is the insanity here, not the idea that this might grow into something bigger over the coming decades.

But even now? You can pay tuition, rent, and order all kinds of goods and food with bitcoin.  Economies aren't created overnight... but bitcoin damn well is close... 5 years into existence and it's across the globe and accepted by a whole variety of vendors.  That, in and of itself, is astonishing. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:17 | 6751881 hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture

"It needs to provide the basics." exactly...if granny can't pump gas with it...

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 00:53 | 6752392 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

you're right that bitcoin has value as a means of transaction, not for intrinsic value it has.

but you're completely wrong about saying " Therefore, BTC only has value as long as it is tied to fiat." - all fiat currencies can completely collapse tomorrow, i wouldn't care, i could still buy gold or other tangibles with bitcoin so it has value.

"to become a true currency requires more than just transaction ability: it needs to be insured/backed by something." - again, no. there is no basis for making this claim. the value of bitcoin is in the network, in its transaction ability, that's the only thing that backs it, and that's the only thing that needs to back it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:54 | 6751165 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Not effective as a multi-decadal hold?

Better tell that to everyone with a 401K.

It's not a quality wealth storage mechanism yet... I have no problem saying that either.

To think something like that would happen in the first few years of a unit's like this creation is the insanity here though... not the idea that over the years it might develop into one.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:07 | 6750523 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Go BTC go!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:08 | 6750531 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Hah, name one that isn't.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:19 | 6750591 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

i'll do better than that, i'll name 3: bitcoin, gold money, bitgold

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:26 | 6750631 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

great, priced in what? Usd?

*Tah dah* *85,000,000,000,000 benny bux*

see where i'm coming from here? huh?

"As Jim Rickards reminded me some time ago, MOST currencies are digital, even the US dollar."

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:28 | 6750647 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Whatever is relevant at that point in time.  Here's hoping USD are still relevant.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:49 | 6750772 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

has someone fucking lobotomized you electronic coin people? seriously? it's all make believe, if the dollars go down, the infrastructure goes down because no one is getting paid,

OR they tell you to fuck off because all of the networks you rely on are privately owned and THEY don't want YOU to post shit on ZH or masturbate to manga or do anything else.

You're just moving bits around over a network, it's just a massively multipalyer online spreadsheet. when there is no network, you're not more safer than anyone else, hOW ARe YoU GOiNg To gET TO YOUr FuXXiNG D3RPK0iNZ?

if you can't run with it you ain't taking it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:50 | 6751141 demi urge
demi urge's picture

You must have missed my bitcoin satellite post a little ways down.

It's ok.  There's still time to read it.

Try to think past the seconds on your watch... maybe even a couple decades into the future.

Scary. I know.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:46 | 6751409 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

Your post is about bitcoin and satellites? What will they think of next.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:06 | 6751247 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

hey, stupid!

you should make an effort to understand the definition of the words that you use, in order to not appear like a complete idiot.

you asked me to name an electronic currency that's not a scam, i did so.

what you are saying now is that it has risks.

there is a difference between something being a scam, and something being risky, they are not at all the same thing.

if you are too stupid to understand the difference, you should refrain from commenting.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:51 | 6751411 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

and if you had read the article, you would have understood the context of those words

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:11 | 6750544 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

As much as ZH'ers like to think they are hip and cool, they tend to be a snarky lot.

If you say you make money on bit coin, they ask you what you will do when the lights go out.

Here is a clue: when the lights go out the only thing your cash and gold will be worth is their ability to start a fire and be used in a wrist rocket respectively.

In other words, when and if the lights go out...it's ALL gone. So what difference does it make in how we make our money?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:18 | 6750590 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

Bitcoin is not a bad option for trading.

I see it as more a currency than money.  (currency doesn't have to retain value, only be a medium of exchange).

With that said, your comment about the lights is BS.

Metals have been used as money for AT LEAST 6000 years (we really don't know how long, because there are only records for between 3000-4000 of those years.  The rest is inferred from archaelogical finds.

You MIGHT note that there were no lights on for the first 5890 of those 6000 years.

Not everyone lives in a closet-sized apartment in Metropolis, you know... or wants to.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:45 | 6750756 Arnold
Arnold's picture

Not readily fungible.

You may argue that nothing is readily fungible,,but it is a base rate fallacy, as well as a false equivalence.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:19 | 6750592 demi urge
demi urge's picture

Exactly :)

I can create clean drinking water.  That's what I'll do when the lights go out... be valuable to the community for my skills.

Until then?  I'll try helping to create a world where the lights stay on... for everyone.

The next level of robustness will be to create a diverse set of ways (beyond physical and the internet that already exist) to move them...

http://www.coindesk.com/jeff-garzik-announces-partnership-launch-bitcoin...

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:31 | 6750664 cigarEngineer
cigarEngineer's picture

You clearly don't understand how Bitcoin works. You can print it out and trade it just like other currencies.

Plus, most of the time the lights are not out. Saying BitCoin sucks because it' doesn't work when the internet is out is like saying houses suck because they don't work when an atomic bomb drops nearby. Your priorities are screwed up.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:38 | 6750710 Shaznardickleze...
Shaznardickleze the Doon's picture

If digital currency is the new money, then tactical emps will be all the rage.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:14 | 6750567 Life of Illusion
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:25 | 6750995 Silver Shield
Silver Shield's picture

Amazing how all of these so called anarchists are on the SAME side as the banksters they claim to be against....

Hegelian Dialectic anyone?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:13 | 6751291 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

 

duane, you're not very bright and don't want to look at things too closely, i notice.

what anarchists are on the side of the banksters, exactly?

you're making vague accusations, not being more specific, because you can't be specific, because what you're saying is not the truth.

also your fanatic attitude of, either believe exactly what i believe or else you are the enemy, wins you no friends.

 

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:25 | 6750628 Lorca's Novena
Lorca&#039;s Novena's picture

Buttcoin

 

to da moon

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:36 | 6750699 Shaznardickleze...
Shaznardickleze the Doon's picture

Long lube. Everyone is getting fucked.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:37 | 6750704 teslaberry
teslaberry's picture

MOST currencies are digital, even the US dollar.

 

NONSENSE. FIAT CURRENCIES USUALLY HAVE SUBSTANTIAL PAPER COMPONENTS. AND THE DRIVE TO BAN PAPER ALTOGETHER IS SEEN AS THE DRIVE TO TAX MONEY MORE. 

 

ALL SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AND HUSTLERS SURVIVE BY USING PHYSICAL CASH TO AVOID OVER TAXATION RELATIVE TO THEIR TAX ABATED MEGA CORPORATE CARTEL COMPETITORS. 

without physical notes, people will look for other ways to evade tax. if bitcoin is going to work, it will work as a tax evasion scheme and nothing else. when the authorities want and need to shut it down, they will. 

 

but that might not be for along long time. 

 

and frankly, if the russians are right about bitcoin being an nsa scheme ( which seems more and more likely given that it's openly used for evading taxes and tolerated by the u.s. government, as well as the fact that  NO ONE KNOWS WHO STARTED IT SO NO ONE KNOWS WHO CONTROLLS MOST OF THE 'COINS'.) 

 

there is a good chance bitcoin survives, LIKE THE TOR NETORK, as a creation that is subsidized and not so secretly cultivated by the u.s. intelligence. tor is notoriously subsidized and created by the naval intelligence department. and continues to be. it's highest levle developers openly are funded by the u.s. government . so all this 'shadow internet' could be a very well cultivated u.s. intelligence operation. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:44 | 6750745 Shaznardickleze...
Shaznardickleze the Doon's picture

Imagine all that chinese wealth flooding into BTC and then bitcoin suddenly goes all wrong considering the fine points you made. NSA scheme, Naval subsidized dark web, US suddenly flips the switch on the honeypots. Suddenly the block chain becomes a giant sticky trap. Funny how the cognitive dissonance operates in the BTC cult.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:38 | 6750708 Matt
Matt's picture

With over 1 million BTC tradfing every 24 hours on a single Chinese exchange, the US Gov's 44,000 is a rather tiny drop in the sea. 

Doesn't mean they couldn't be spending a bit to jack the price for the auction, but ~$20 million USD is really peanuts for .GOV

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:44 | 6750743 Gregory Poonsores
Gregory Poonsores's picture

All currency is fucking worthless when TSHTF.

All I need is one more bullet than the guy with all the gold and the next guy only needs one more bullet than me.

So bullets are the only real currency.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:04 | 6751231 TAALR Swift
TAALR Swift's picture

So are the people, willing to fire them on your behalf, if you're a politician.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:45 | 6750751 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

All I want for Christmas, is the CTRL P button the FED uses, connected directly to my account...nothing else Santa, I've been a good boy! ;)

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:57 | 6750807 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Bitcoin is way ahead of the competition. It's already backed by nothing!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:03 | 6750861 venturen
venturen's picture

it is backed by computer power?...really? They should rename it snakeoilcoin

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:19 | 6750952 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Just got two bank letters today saying all business deposits over the limit (don't even know what the limit is) will be charged @ .15 per $100 !!!!! Capital Controls are coming !!!!! And coming soon.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:23 | 6751910 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

. . . all business deposits over the limit (don't even know what the limit is) will be charged @ .15 per $100 !!!!!

 

However you want to frame it that is called "Negative Interest Rates" - coming soon to Joe Blow's savings (and checking) accounts and Mom and Pop's retirement savings account at a too big to fail bank near you!!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:22 | 6750975 Silver Shield
Silver Shield's picture

The Church of BitCon says that they can get something for nothing by building up the perceived value of nothing and then selling it to the ignorant and greedy masses for their real wealth.

The Church of BitCon is approved by the Federal Reserve, the CIA, Ben Bernanke, JP Morgan, Blythe Masters, Bill Gates and the soon to be introduced CitiCoin with IBM.

The ONLY true enemy of this titanic digital illusion generational Ponzi scheme is SILVER since the Crime of 1873, Opium Wars and the demonetization in India.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 00:58 | 6752406 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

i hold most of my wealth in silver like you do, but i still don't care for you because of your fanatic dogmatic attitude, it's an ugly thing.

also your comment is completely logically fallacious - if the cia and ben bernanke tomorrow decided to "approve" of silver (whatever that means), would you sell all your silver then? if no, then you are logically inconsistent and a fool.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:16 | 6751308 AdvanceDecline
AdvanceDecline's picture

“Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other.” -- Ayn Rand

Money isn't real until you can use it to buy something real.

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:21 | 6751327 Westcott Canon
Westcott Canon's picture

I am thinking that if Bitcoin ever threatened the stats quo monetary system, Bitcoin would be mysteriously  hacked.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:18 | 6751879 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

I am thinking that if Bitcoin ever threatened the stats quo monetary system, Bitcoin would be mysteriously  hacked.

 

If it hasn't already been hacked to some degree then at the least someone (or some organization) has learned how to game the system big time - a la the Crimex PM markets.  You didn't see these wild 24 hour swings in BTC price up until a couple of years ago or so. 

Maybe the way they're doing it is simple and someone can splain it to me like I'm a 3rd grader or something soze I understand . . .

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:32 | 6751343 TAALR Swift
TAALR Swift's picture

The author is correct, insofar it is an OPTION in the ecosystem of currencies.

Nothing wrong with having Options that suit a given situation.

A small analytical digression:

I'll bet that none of you have figured out that You are "units of currency" also: instead of being electronic units of information that is used as currency, you are bio-chemical units of information, but with additional utility.

Turn off your Power Switch, and it's bye-bye info. Forever. You can always reboot or backup an AI. A human... not so much. Although too many of you still persist in an unproven belief/hope that you will be backed-up when your HW dies. Remarkable. Inasmuch not all digital data is worth backing up, so too not all human SW is worth backing up. Just look around you, or look at the News, if you doubt that.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:28 | 6751352 Ajax_USB_Port_R...
Ajax_USB_Port_Repair_Service_'s picture

Dennison's chili: 4 cans for $5.00

The option to eat the chili expires on July 26, 2017.

Stacking and stocking...

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:12 | 6751857 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

The option to eat the chili expires on July 26, 2017.

Stacking and stocking...

 

What happens if the collapse starts in earnest on July 27th, 2017??

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:21 | 6751905 hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture

you end up shitting out a lot of chili...

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:24 | 6751916 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

LMFAO!!!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 20:40 | 6751380 SMC
SMC's picture

Bitcoin is a great virtual "game" but it is suited more to Second Life than to be the unit of currency between producers of goods and services.

The currency of tomorrow is:

Water for the thirsty who have physical labor, goods, gold and/or silver to trade.

Food for the hungry who have physical labor, goods, gold and/or silver to trade.

Shelter for those who have physical labor, goods, gold and/or silver to trade.

Lead for those who demand water, food, goods and/or shelter by force.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:39 | 6751706 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Or how about we switch over to a sane system of curency instead and avoid all of that?

I'm starting to think that there are quite a few dead-enders around here who actually want to see everything collapse into ruin when it doesn't have to be that way.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:07 | 6751841 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

. . . see everything collapse into ruin when it doesn't have to be that way.

 

Sorry. I'm not a "dead ender" as you put it but I can see that the way the so called "Elite" have constructed the financial system in the world that it has to completely fall apart before any real changes will be made.  The problem is if we (the 99.99%) don't actually do something about the "Elite" (God, I HATE that word/term - they're a bunch of sociopathic scum-bags, not "Elite" in any real human way) they will be the ones calling the shots to build the "new" financial system. 

It's kind of like what happens to the human race time and time again in the movie "The Matrix - Revolutions" (I think the "Architect" said the human race had been virtually destroyed 7 times before Neo's time).

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:24 | 6751920 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Yes, that existing system has to fall apart. It's a mathematical certainty at this point. But the more the 99.9% decide to circumvent the fiat system and move to sound money in a parallel economy, the softer that "landing" can be.

Gold and Silver have a role to play in doing that, as time-tested mechanisms for storing value off-line, but unless you're expecting a world without electricity, modern medical care, safe water, etc., then there'd better be a component of that parallel economy that's based on cryptocurrency, whether that's bitcoin or something else that improves upon it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:34 | 6751680 hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture
p44 ( Tragedy and Hope) 1966 edition. Carroll Quigley.
..."Money and goods are not the same thing but are, on the contrary, exactly opposite things. Most confusion in economic thinking arises from failure to recognize this fact. Goods are wealth which you have, while money is a claim on wealth which you do not have. Thus goods are an asset; money is a debt. If goods are wealth; money is not-wealth, or negative wealth, or even anti-wealth. They always behave in opposite ways, just as they usually move in opposite directions. If the value of one goes up, the value of the other goes down, and in the same proportion. The value of goods, expressed in money, is called "prices," while the value of money, expressed in goods, is called "value."  
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:45 | 6751727 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Rather than risk transporting gold coins across the countryside, medieval bankers merely annotated their ledgers with debit and credit entries.

 

That is NOT the primary reason the "medieval bankers" (who were Jews by the way) started using debit and credit entries and started issuing IOU's to their depositors.  They started doing this when they realized that very few depositors asked for their physical gold and silver at any one time so they got the bright idea of issuing more credit IOU's than the amount of physical PM's they had on deposit.  Welcome to the world of "fractional reserve banking" - invented by?  You got it!  The Tribe (and no, not the baseball team in Cleveland).

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 21:53 | 6751736 hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture

 on that note: 

p48
"The founding of the Bank of England by William Paterson and his friends in 1694 is one of the great dates in world history. For generations men had sought to avoid the one drawback of gold, its heaviness, by using pieces of paper to represent specific pieces of gold. Today we call such pieces of paper gold certificates. Such a certificate entitles its bearer to exchange it for its piece of gold on demand, but in view of the convenience of paper, only a small fraction of certificate holders ever did make such demands. It early became clear that gold need be held on hand only to the amount needed to cover the fraction of certificates likely to he presented for payment; accordingly, the rest of the gold could be used for business purposes, or, what amounts to the same thing, a volume of certificates could be issued greater than the volume of gold reserved for payment of demands against them. Such an excess volume of paper claims against reserves we now call bank notes.
In effect, this creation of paper claims greater than the reserves available means that bankers were creating money out of nothing. The same thing could be done in another way, not by note-issuing banks but by deposit banks. Deposit bankers discovered that orders and checks drawn against deposits by depositors and given to third persons were often not cashed by the latter but were deposited to their own accounts. Thus there were no actual movements of funds, and payments were made simply by bookkeeping transactions on the accounts. Accordingly, it was necessary for the banker to keep on hand in actual money (gold, certificates, and notes) no more than the fraction of deposits likely to be drawn upon and cashed; the rest could be used for loans, and if these loans were made by creating a deposit for the borrower, who in turn would draw checks upon it rather than withdraw it in money, such "created deposits" or loans could also be covered adequately by retaining reserves to only a fraction of their value. Such created deposits also were a creation of money out of nothing, although bankers usually refused o express their actions, either note issuing or deposit lending, in these terms. William Paterson, however, on obtaining the charter of the Bank of England in 1694, to use the moneys he had won in privateering, said, "The Bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing." This was repeated by Sir Edward Holden, founder of the Midland Bank, on December 18, 1907, and is, of course, generally admitted today."
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:09 | 6751780 Dickweed Wang
Dickweed Wang's picture

Too bad that only about 1-5% of the population in the "west" can wrap their heads around these facts.  If the rest of the Fartbook/Tweeter crowd would give their I-toys a rest and try to learn something like this for a change things might be different in the future.  Ah well, one can dream I guess . . .

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 22:48 | 6752016 theyjustcantstop
theyjustcantstop's picture

I've tried to warn my wife about banks, she po-poed me. this may or June, went to cash a fed. income tax-refund, first one in many years.

 I had the so called pleasure of having my daughter, and grand -child live with me in 2013.

went to the bank to cash the check, I'm thinking a little over$5,000.00, they wouldn't cash it, for cash, told me I didn't have enough in my checking account to cover the check, if it bounced.

I told him it's a fed. govt. check, he stated that didn't matter.

the I told him, a twenty- something that I'd been banking there since before he was born, and for the last 25-27 yrs. I had a line of credit on my checking, and bank card acct. for $10,000.00, for purchases if I seen something I wanted I could write a check, or put it on my bank card

 he also stated that didn't matter.

my wife listens to me now.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 23:05 | 6752084 Omega_Man
Omega_Man's picture

USA - the scam nation

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 11:24 | 6753561 nnnnnn
nnnnnn's picture

USA - the scum nation

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 09:43 | 6753124 honestann
honestann's picture

In gold we trust.
In silver we trust.
In real, physical goods we trust.

And the predators-that-be we trust to trash all honest, ethical, productive, benevolent human beings, just as they have always done.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!