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US Spec Ops Already On The Ground In Syria Sources Say, As Russian Troop Presence Grows To 4,000
On Tuesday evening, we noted that the US is set to send F-15C Eagle twin-engine fighters to Incirlik. This suggests that the Pentagon is preparing for air-to-air combat with the Russians.
As hyperbolic as that might sound, there’s really no alternative explanation for why Washington would send the fighters to Syria unless of course ISIS and/or the mishmash of rebels and militants fighting for control of the country have air forces no one has ever heard about.
Indeed, Russia made a similar move by sending Sukhoi Su-30s to Latakia and according to several sources, those planes had a run-in with Israeli jets over Lebanon last month.
The interesting thing, from our perspective anyway, is that Lebanese sources were out on Wednesday claiming that US spec ops are already on the ground - and they’re operating in the west. Here’s Sputnik:
US military advisors are alleged to have started training so-called moderate rebels near the city of Salma in the Latakia province in what amounts to breaking a pledge not to put US boots on the ground in Syria, Lebanon's satellite television channel al-Mayadeen reported, citing an unnamed military source.
And here’s Salma:
Now bear in mind, this is Russian media citing an unnamed Lebanese source, so that would be a bit like American media citing an unnamed Saudi correspondent, but still, even the suggestion that Washington has placed "advisers" in Salma is alarming. That is, the going assumption was that these spec ops forces would be placed with the YPG or somewhere near Raqqa to avoid even the appearance that The Pentagon is set to place troops with soldiers that are in direct contact with Iranian ground forces and as such could potentially get hit with Russian airstrikes.
Of course we won't get much in the way of clarity from Washington. US Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern Affairs Anne Patterson told the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Wednesday that the "the activities and location of the special forces are classified." Patterson also said that "Russia's military intervention has dangerously exacerbated an already complex environment," on the way to claiming that "the opposition puts up a very strong fight."
Obviously, it's difficult to know where even to start in terms of analyzing that bit of nonsense. First, the situation is indeed "already complex" thanks to Washington, Riyadh, Ankara, and Doha who collectiively decided that "start civil war via the funding of terrorists" was the proper "strategy" for bringing about regime change in Damascus. Second, it's not clear that the "opposition" is putting up a "very strong fight," and even if it were, that's at least partly attributable to the Pentagon handing rebels things like anti-tank weapons. If Patterson thinks that's constructive, well, maybe she needs to find a new occupation.
Meanwhile, Western media reports indicate that there are as many as 4,000 Russian troops in Syria (so, i) just "slightly" more than the 50 Obama is sending, ii) far less than the number of militants the US and its regional allies have trained, and iii) far less than the Iranian contingent, which, between Shiite militas from Iraq, Hezbollah, and the Quds, probably number more than 10 or 15,000). Here's Reuters:
Moscow's military force in Syria has grown to about 4,000 personnel, but this and more than a month of Russian air strikes have not led to pro-government forces making significant territorial gains, U.S. security officials and independent experts said.
Moscow, which has maintained a military presence in Syria for decades as an ally of the ruling Assad family, had an estimated 2,000 personnel in the country when it began air strikes on Sept. 30. The Russian force has since roughly doubled and the number of bases it is using has grown, U.S. security officials said.
The Russians have suffered combat casualties, including deaths, said three U.S. security officials familiar with U.S. intelligence reporting, adding that they did not know the exact numbers.
Russia's foreign ministry declined to comment on the size of the Russian contingent in Syria or any casualties it has suffered. It referred questions to the Russian Defense Ministry, which did not respond to written questions submitted by Reuters.
The Kremlin has said there are no Russian troops in combat roles in Syria, though it has said there are trainers and advisers working alongside the Syrian military and also forces guarding Russia's bases in western Syria.
A U.S. defense official said Russian aircraft are now operating out of four bases, but multiple rocket launcher crews and long-range artillery batteries are deployed outside the facilities.
"They have a lot of people outside the wire," he said.
The main Russian base is at the Bassel al-Assad International Airport near the port city of Latakia. All of Moscow's fixed wing aircraft are flying from there in support of ground offensives by the Syrian army and foreign Shiite militias, the defense official said.
Three other bases - Hama, Sharyat and Tiyas - are being used for helicopter gunships, he said. The Russians began operating from Tiyas only this week, the official said.
Russia's air fleet in Syria comprises 34 fixed-wing aircraft and 16 helicopters, the U.S. officials said.
In a testament to what we said above, Reuters goes on to note that the rebels' ability to fight off pro-regime forces stems largely from the delivery of U.S.-made TOW anti-tank missiles. Saudi Arabia is supplying them to forces battling Iran near Aleppo:
Despite the Russian air strikes, the offensives have failed to make significant advances, the U.S. officials and independent experts said. A key factor appears to be significant losses by pro-government forces of tanks and other armored vehicles to U.S.-made TOW anti-tank missiles that Saudi Arabia has been supplying to the anti-Assad rebels.
Once again, this is just about the silliest damn thing imaginable. Here's Riyadh giving US-made anti-tank missiles to anti-Assad forces who are using them to target the very same Iran-backed militias who are driving Abrams tanks in Iraq and helping the US-trained Iraqi regulars battle ISIS. Clearly, Washington has gotten itself so intertwined in the Sunni-Shiite battle between Iran and Saudi Arabia that the Pentagon no longer knows what to do, leading to a schizophrenic strategy that varies by country.
In any event, the takeaway here is that reports now suggest US troops are operating near Latakia and that means they'll be in contact with Iranian ground troops, Russian fighter jets, and quite possibly with some of the 4,000 Russian troops stationed in the country. Perhaps now we know why The Pentagon sent the F-15C Eagles. Maybe US spec ops will indeed be engaging the Russians and Iranians on the ground and will need the air force to shoot down Moscow's warplanes in the event they try to hit US positions.
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I will be when the Empire tries to impose a no-fly zone above Syria.
Kind of always wanted to see if an F-15 is faster than an S-400...
The military build up continues in the biggest game of Buckaroo since 1939.
I see your F15's and raise you a battery of S400's... (these are moves designed to bolster diplomatic power, not to actually shoot anyone out of the sky)
So is all this confusion between the friend of my ally's friend being my enemies' friend's buddy's spiteful neighbor who we've never met with the unlisted number kinda like shitting or getting off the pot if you're Elvis?
Most transparent administration in history - US Troops already on the ground in Northern Iraq
All the while the poor children in California are still asking where Iraq and Syria are on a map.
More Common Core!
2+2=whateveeerrrrr
They need the f15's to counter these....
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-17/isis-airforce-takes-trained-ira...
Our MIC desperately wants a U.S. fighter to down a Russian fighter. That would generate $100 billion in new weapons sales overseas. Of course if the Russians knock out our fighter we lose the sales. Let the war games begin.
Successful results for military equipment in war is the best sales pitch ever.
Haha. Ready for these snots to get out in the real world workplace where there actually is a right and wrong....trying to pull this crap will get kicked to the governent dole.
But isn't this what is wanted anyways??
These people are fucking insane. And they are going to drag all of us into a war the likes of which the world has never seen if they don't stop.
It's a move to close the gap a little on the Russian diplomatic advantage.
At some point a deal will be negotiated and everyone will stand down, but the party with the upper hand at the time of the deal will get the better cut.
The F15's aren't flying over there to shoot at anyone, they are flying over there so some US diplomat can put a chip in Russia's shiny advantage.
They are throwing those soldiers into the fire in order to justify war when one or more of them winds up dead. They are also arming and training the shit out of the people that US soldiers will be fighting in six months... and they wanted to charge Snowden with treason?
Good point. These US troops are being sent to Islamic radicals, because moderate rebels don't exist. As true Americans, these special forces are acting to aid radical Islamists, and also being put right where massive smart bomb attacks happen daily. As a real American, would a soldier really want to aid radical islamists, and also sit right on ground zero for heavy and very effective Russian aor strikes. Is that what an American swears to do now when they enlist? Anything the Neocon insane fuckers order them to do?
The people Putin is killing apparently are the type that blow up civilian airliners.
I hope US "folks" don't impede Putin.
Putin does not kill people. He liberates countries making them free for something or other.
Right. Only the US is good at that. The have a great 15 year track record of success and only a couple of trillion dollars spent. Plus or minus a few trillion. Now back to your cage you go chimp.
AC130's were training near my house last weekend. SpecOps are moving in and they will bring the AC130's with them.....guaranteed. I took some video but its dark, all you can see is a blinking light, and then the rumble of the cannons (missed the gatlin gun). Hope to get it up so I can share it soon.
Jack,
The Special Forces are the Pure Evil Psychopathic Scum Fuck " Radicals."
Does not even need air strikes when on the US terrorist training camps the volleys of MLRS grads and urugans can pour.
Very astute JB. Given the quality of Russian EW gear, I would be expecting them to home in on the specific gear that US special forces use to communicate. Then as that is obviously an important place, to zap it.
Who knows, John, maybe this will come in to play near Latakia . I've been on the edge of my seat since last March.
If old Yellen raises rates in December,look fo a Russian fighter jet to knock an F-15 out of the sky. False flag,blame the economy on our new war on that evil Putin.
Insane is the word. Get those shitbirds Lindsey Graham and McCain away from any position of power as fast as possible.
Sincerely, all sane people in the world.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca1_1446589694
Unbelievable.
What. The. Fuck. Was all that about? Not only to i feel dumber for watching that, but im pretty sure they all just ratted themselves out as the war criminals that they are.
Wow. Thanks for sharing. All that stuff he is saying is pure illegal. No shame in this either, wow.
So who the fuck are these spec ops going to be fighting?
Al Qaeda in Syria, ISIS or some other effing group?
What exactly is their purpose?
This frigging Rockefeller stooge from U. of Chicago law faculty hasn't really explained this?
Since there really aren't any democracy-loving freedom fighters over there, simply commie Kurds or another Kurdish minority, but no real sizable force, excepting ISIS and al Qaeda and what's left of the Syrian Army.
Like everything else form the Bush/Obama Administration, this makes no bloody sense!
Insanity at all levels - top to bottom.
And you know what ? The spec op types love this stuff - - both American & Russian. Bet they can't wait to go up against each other,
WW3 here we come
"...On Tuesday evening, we noted that the US is set to send F-15C Eagle twin-engine fighters to Incirlik. This suggests that the Pentagon is preparing for air-to-air combat with the Russians..."
Bullshit. It suggests nothing of the sort. The newest F-15C was built thirty years ago - it was grandpappy's 'air superiority' fighter. As ThirdWorldDude points out, it will be defending itself against Russia's S-400s if it decides to start shooting air-to-air missiles at Russian jets.
The Air Force is just using up their hours before it's forced to mothball another batch of them in future budget cuts. It will need to steal budget from the F-15C fleet to pay for the F-22s and F-35s. This has been happening for years.
The F-22 and F-35 are worse. The F-16 is the only fighter even close to matching up to anything Russian.
I hope Russia is making more S-400s.
24/7
There are Mig 31s there already which in their current form are more than a match for the F15s. The SU30s will do fine as well. As will the air dfenses if needed.
I saw a clip where ash carter is saying Russia's strategy is doomed to fail. Meanwhile they've done more in a month than the West has done in over a year, and now the best strategy for the West after seeing their terror networks collapse is to land western soldiers to train rebels on syrian soil and sacrifice some airplanes to boot.
Nice work Ash. Ashole. I guess since your plan is to start WW3 at all costs, you're doing a great job.
Sorry, no Mig-31s are known to be in Syria.
The order was not delivered.
"I will give them something they have never seen before."
now that you're back, we are.
Alas Alas Babylon
The closest proxy we have to Babylon in the world today is London, but even that's not a great fit.
Assuming that passage is talking about a proxy, and assuming it is talking about a proxy in our lifetime then look for London to be destroyed. The U.S. is not it.
ISIS = waswas
They are all moving to a new country called Fuckedupistan.
A country called Jinglemail
Written as if chaos is an unacceptable outcome when it is as likely one outcome that is within the planning range of the operation.
Ultimate oxymoron: The War against Chaos.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/12/us-caught-faking-it-in-syria/
And the legal basis for America's presence in Syria? The vital US National security interest? Obama's authority has what basis?
http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/10/42953-the-triangular-relationship-betwe...
By the way - has there been nothing newsworthy these past weeks in Ukraine? They just arrested an oligarch. "Guennadi Korban, 45, a businessman and right-hand man of billionaire Igor Kolomoyski, was arrested Saturday as part of a probe into organised crime and corruption." http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-leader-says-arrest-oligarch-ally-just-star...
Amazing how many Zios keep popping up in Ukraine, a country which is less than 1% Jewish - no?
Hennadiy Korban (Ukrainian: ???????? ???????? ??????) (born May 24, 1970 in Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine) is a Ukrainian businessman, expert in the exchanging trade and mergers and acquisitions, patron of the Jewish community, collector of modern and contemporary art. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hennadiy_Korban
Dementia afflicted John McCain keep popping up interestingly too and in the photos with friends basks.
With investigation Korban the connections between associates reveals. The journal entry Cassad gives picture McCain posing with gang member involved "industrial scale money theft and kidnappings engaged". The senator with special photogeneity congenital.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.ru/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/24...
In the 'you cannot make this shit up' department:
Kolomoisky. the Jewish-Ukrainian-Cypriot oligarch who funded the neo Nazi Pravy Sektor volunteer battalion, has sent envoys to Moscow asking to help him hide $6 million looted from Ukraine.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/antifashist.com/item/kolomojskij...
This is the guy who said that the MH-17 shootdown was 'a mere trifle' and 'they shot down the wrong plane'. He also put a $10,000 bounty on Russians caught dead or alive early on in the onslaught against east Ukraine.
howdy doody, absolutely in the right file, only file. each every day another head rocker, you cannot make this shit up!
For a long time, Kolomoisky was on the US blacklist for visas, presumably excessive corruption. A while ago he managed to get that overturned, so he has skedaddled from Ukraine to the US. He now runs Right Sektor by remote control. Should evidence come up to incriminate him in the MH17 incident or any other war crime, you can bet with 100% certainty that the US will not extradite him to Russia or any international court.
Dunno.
Pasha Bumchik?
What potatoes are to Latvia, Bumchik is to Ukraine.
So when dead US mercs show up on camera after Russian bombing are we to treat them as heroes or ISIS trainers?
Let's face facts, the US has been fomenting war in the region all over, and has been getting a pass.
If they die, so be it. I'm done with even seeing the US in a neutral light. And so are many others.
pods
We're to treat them as heroes and the impetus for war. The placement of advisers is meant to keep the Russians from bombing anti-Assad forces. They are human shields, nothing more. In the event the Russians kill one, you can expect a full-on media blitz and absurd knee-jerk Congressional support for all sorts of options against the Russians. The general US populace knows this entire theater is a shitshow run by the US. Casulties brought about by another state makes an easier target for popular support for action, another dead merc at the hands of ISIS isn't getting the required pull.
In short, as ex military myself, I would probably go to jail before going to Syria right now.
Sadly the general population at my employer are just plain clueless on the matter. The US is still wearing shinny armour in their minds. Seems all the propaganda and indoctrination worked as planned. Scary times ahead.....
Psaki-flavoured kool aid not to drink and treat them as supporters terrorists. Reminds that this supporting under US law is strongly criminal. Saved by optionality in US "rule of law".
Presence on Syria without invitation Assad government portrays them categorically invaders in war of aggression.Actions then war crimes as such.
They seem overly confident that they will take the Russians with a few f15s.
Hubris before the fall.
I'm sure the Russians have a lot more up their sleeves, as if
they've not already surprised US planners already. i wouldn't be shocked if whats already been revealed
proves to be the dross discards.
Never underestimate Russian engineers and scientists.
that...
and Russia world best physicists
I believe that the US is very corrupt and that this will ultimately be the downfall. On the other hand the US does not play by the rules. Expect to see lots more tragedies affecting Russia that are not directly linked to any battle front or country. I would imagine half a century of military hegemony and the US has a few surprises up its sleeve, unfortunately.
And I do not think the intelligence services and military leaders are as stupid as they seem. The problem is that the US military and especially intelligence services don't necessarily serve the US. They serve whoever the fuck it is behind the scenes. All the wars in the history of the US seem to ultimately benefit this cabal one way or another. So if they want the US to win this war, the US will win. I would not be surprised if they have prepositioned bombs or other weapons all over the world in major population centers and they can just blow them up at will, US included. Not to mention zombie MK Ultra assets close to the centers of power in all the countries.
I hope all of the above is just stupid conspiracy theories and that all the US can really do in a fight is send out few hundred soldiers and a couple dozen jets and that Russia really is an independent country and there is no master plan playing out that we can't perceive. That would be pretty funny actually if it is all just due to stupid fucking politicians in the US and PNAC crazies.
FYI-they serve the bankers -
https://fas.org/man/smedley.htm
people have been underestimating the Russians for 100s of years
and underestimating the Chinese for 1000s
I wonder if there's any good defense against the anti-tank missiles? Can't they track them from above via infra-red and target the source?
Ive been thinking about this my self. After watching the Ukraine war its almost as if tanks are obsolete, at least for a concentrated shock type weapon of the past. I remember the Korean war, the Koreans used an old Russian single shot large caliber 12.7 shoulder fired gun to take out the old tanks long range for pennies on the dollar. They reeked havoc with those things. I even seen a few yet used in Ukraine.
In Ukraine the older model T-62s were getting blown up with even a new penetrator type of simple RPG round. They have some kind of reactive armor (the little square boxes on the sides) that is supposed to explode outward when missile hit. It was not too effective and they resorted to welding grating around the sides to try to stop RPGs. In addition the old T62 has the ammo stored right with the drivers compartment and when hit they just go up in smoke. I think by about T72/80 they improved the reactive armor somewhat. shrunk the turret height down to a disk shape making it hard to hit and moved the ammo away from the crew and they seem to do better.
But now we have a battle field with the old Kornets,and TOW antitank missiles and the survivability of any tank seems to be slim to none. In Yemen they are simply vaporizing the American M1As in a ball of fire. I watched 2 M1As today explode like a bomb had hit-em. I have not seen the T-90 in action yet or the even newer Armata but I doubt any lasts against these anti tank missiles much better. They seem to have to adopt hit and run tactics with the Tanks in use nowadays.
In the future I think the tanks are going to have to have some kind of mini anti missile defense missiles of their own like ships have but smaller to be of any use. I don't know, time will tell but whats out there now ain't looking to good. And makes it hard to advance and turns the battles into a blood and guts grudge matches with infantry and high casualties for the moment. They are going to have to come up with some improvements and some kind of missle defence for these things or they are not even a TANK.-Just so much scrap metal no one would want to drive. Just some thoughts.
Here are one of those Saudi M1's getting cooked off in Yemen. The anti tank missles is an older Russian 1970s design. The General Dynaimcs fan boys claim the Saudi tanks have no special armor protection. The USA versions are supposedly uprated but Kornets can take them out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJwkGy6EOj8
And here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAAuUadzzRE
Russia does have to tank defense systems that are being rolled out in Syria.
I think the Armata is smaller and faster than the T-90.
Here is the Iraqi Army supposedly using a Kornet against"ISIS."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJjobBUgD1U
Thanks fred, Thats not the ones I seen of the M1As , it was in the desert in Yemen and exploded even worse, but it makes the point and there are getting to be a bunch of blown up tank vids of late.
I think the Armata is a mutiple platform idea with a standard base and tracks used fir multiple vehicle ie: can be for tank, AA, multi missle like grad, Electronics weapon ect, nice idea if it works
And these Syrian and Saudi dufuses are using tanks all wrong even like a anti tank gun or artillery with no infantry protection. In the perfect desert terrain too. Put em in packs and move in fast. I guess ole Erwin Rommel or Patton is going to have to come back and show em how to use a Calvary.
Well, you know these days, there will always be enough civilians to crush under tread to justify the existence of armor. (As the Branch Davidians found out in Waco.)
The ATGM missle in the vids was a 9M113 Konkurs. It has a gyroscope that spins up and makes a distinctive high-pitched sound for a fraction of a second before the rest of the firing sequence takes place. It's nowhere near as new (or expensive) as a Koronet, but it is a quite capable medium tank ATGM comparable to the improved TOW2.
The Russians are shipping some modern tanks with active ATGM defense - radar and smoke screen that effectively nullify the line-of-sght control of the ATGM. The radar info should allow the tank to fire in the direction the missile came from, probably giving the gunner range info as well.
http://www.russiadefence.net/t4584p540-russian-military-involvement-and-...
Ridiculous, a 47 year old plane. I wait to see all of these jewMerikkka terrorists destroyed, Russia's weapons get bigger and more dangerous by the week, and hopefully China will be invited into the action soon as well, then we will see loads of proxy jihadi death.
f15 vs su-27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u741Dipwru8
The newer variants of the Su fighters are even better. The F-22 has that oxygen issue where the pilot loses oxygen.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/04/20/pilots-career-stalls-after...
The skin on the F-22 is so thin that it will catch fire if anything hits it even something as small as a .22 round. This is according to Pierre Sprey who helped design the A-10 and F-16 with Col Boyd and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAq6oMG7DoE
The USAF is a Trayvonille/Obolatown country "defense" force.
The Russians are far better educated than the Trayvon Amerikaans. 4% of students in Detroit can read but they can play ball.
Even the white males in Amerika, like morons,worship the Trayvon thug ball players like little girls.
They seem very confident that they can take down the Russian jets (after maybe the loss of a few F15 and then major deloyments) OR they are very confident Putin will not fight and will once again back away from NATO. They just took down one of Putin's airliners and Putin knows it.
IF the report is correct and they are putting forces in the western area of Syria it is clear they are moving against Russia. Possilbly to contain them and to provide a sheild for the local ISIS so they cannot be bombed by Russia. How long before they install their own anti air missile systems in the areas?
So much for Putin being a master chess player - or he has something really big and bold planned. But I just cannot see anything that involves confronting NATO directly. The report indicates Putin's proxy ground troops are getting hit hard with shoulder fired missiles and such. So the US supplies them to their proxy against Russia but the forces that have fought the US in Iraq and Afganistan were never supplied with these types of systems by Russia. (Russia's fear of NATO again.)
Goodness, even a child could have seen the need to declare Syria a no-fly zone for anyone not approved by Assad. AND the need to have supplied Syria (and Iran) with the S 300 systems back in 2007 as Russia was contracted to do. Fear of confrontation.
Right now it is NATO being bold and Putin playing checkers to their chess. Unless it is a trap and he plans something major. Of course the blind will say it is only Putin taking a smart long term approach, like they claim Russia has done in Iraq, Serbia, Libya etc..
Russia is massively outgunned. Your analysis leaves that part out. You also leave out the time and energy Russia spent on diplomacy and trying to 'go along' - unwise, in hindsight, but the alternative was to not try diplomacy at all.
You keep trolling Russia for not saving the world from the combined forces of the US, UK, France, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and their tens of thousands of terrorist mercenaries. Anything they do - it's not enough, nevermind that Russia has been sanctioned and oil prices engineered precisely to hurt its economy.
Your analysis is sophomoric, repetitive, and disingenuous.
The Putin fan club has gone on and on about how Putin will unleash devestation if he is poked and that he is a MASTER chess player and it is all been a trap he has set up in case he is pushed.
Now his airliners are bombed out of the air. NATO is putting troops close to his bases in Syria. His proxy army is getting hit hard with shoulder fired missiles from the US, US troops have arrived and sheild Putin's enemy, ---- Just Who Is Playing Checker To A Chess Player? (at least by appearances today)
So it is admitted Putin has been banking on and relying on diplomacy and trust in the ethics of the US/Israel and has been "going along". Just Brilliant!! And to be a cooperative nice guy Russia/Putin did not supply shoulder fired systems to those fighting the US/NATO many years ago. They were left to make their own IED's instead. Brilliant!!
Can you and others now start posting that Russia is massively outgunned and hopeless. That when poked the bear goes to it's den. Or will you go back to telling us Putin is the master chess player and is still waiting for the demise of the dollar to pounce.
Or are you correct. Putin has been "going along" and cooperating all along. There is a good arguement for that I must say.
I am not saying I am happy with any of this.
Why does anyone think Putin would fight fair? It would be crazy to go toe to toe militarily. Destroy our banking system and win without firing a shot.
If the West continues its sabotage of Russia and China, blows more planes out of the sky, blows up more chemical warehouses, murders more Nemtsovs and blames it on the Kremlin, declares more sanctions, then Putin and Xi will have to decide whether to kowtow to the Pentagon to get it to stop or initiate a preemptive nuclear first strike.
Better Dead Than Anti-Red Neocons
Any conventional war in Syria will lead to that conclusion, so why not do what the US, the Israelis, and the Japanese have been doing since the 40's?
A first strike when you do it; a sneak attack when it's done to you.
I don't knoiw who else in the Putin fan club has gone on about Putin unleashing devestation besides me, but simple logic tells me either he goes nuclear or he dosen't. If he doesn't go nuclear, either he continues to do what he's doing or he comes up with a better plan.
As if you and I know what his plan is
Hey, maybe you know a better plan?
Let's hear it.
A plan that goes beyond the first two serious moves is difficult now. Because after that you have to have been clear you are willing to go nuclear. But then you lose the sudden surprise. Could he send the message with a covert nuke going off in the US and set it up for terrorist to be blamed (even ISIS?). Engage in Syria and when hit then hit back with tactical nukes to cause loss of support for war in the US.
I am sure others can come up with much better but the real threat of nukes on some scale, and the threat for such within the borders of the US and England seems required. Or perhaps, since Putin should know who the real string pullers are, hit them as a warning.
Break the commitment of the citizens for their country to continue war on Russia. Be the enraged bear.
I've said it before. Backing down in Cuba was mistake 1. Not going all in for Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Syria and others has lead Russia to be much more cornered than they should be. Remember the number of times Russia actually voted for, or consented to, sanctions and actions against Russia's allies.
A fact has to be faced by Putin, it will not stop until it is stopped. If Russia crumbles again due to economic actions they will slice and dice Russia up and it will never return in any independent form.
But people should consider the possibility that Putin's and the Russian elites motives and alliances are not what everyone is hoping they are.
In the past, Putin has made the same mistakes as post-perestroika Mikhail Gorbachev, that is negotiating in good faith for the betterment of the world with the West. This was done, not out of naivety, but with the expectation that the citizenry of the West would suppress the temptation for the ruling class to engage in skullfuckery. Perhaps Putin will cleanse it all with nuclear fire before ZATO unleashes their Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse as it has become obvious that our lumpen have no intention of militiaing up to do their patriotic duty to restore the rule of law, honorable government, and civility.
From 2002 until, let's say, Snowden arrived in Russia, I believe the PTB in the Pentagon and the neocons in the White House believed that a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Russia would succeed and destroy enough of Russia's response to prevent, along with our ABMs, any of Russia's missiles from striking the Homeland.
The US altered its strategy when it gave up this unbelievable idea that they could wipe out Russia with nukes and not suffer one hit in return. The change was to become the the same two-faced sneaky hypocrites they had always been but to secretly return to the era of MAD, which George Bush ended.
The Russians used the time since the US quit the ABM Treaty to design and build weapons By all accounts they did a good job.
The US has returned to the Cold War and to Mutual Assured Destruction.
But Russia doesn't want to go back there without their satellites, the population they lost, and the buffer zone those nations provided.
I'm sure Sun Tzu said something about not engaging the enemy when you are weak and before you are ready. All of your examples probably attest to that. Why not Iraq in 2003? Syria in 2011? Libya?
It may be that the only conflict in which Russia's strength is equal to the US's is a nuclear one. And joining Assad to fight the 'opposition' is more about moderate rebels than ISIS or more about Tartous than both.
And that's exactly why Putin may take Russia down the nuclear path. To prevent it from becoming a galley slave under America's whip. To prevent the neocons from installing their dolts in the Kremlin. And striping Russia of her mineral wealth.
I think we all know that, in this situation, you don't advertise your plan by exploding a small nuclear device somewhere or other.
You go the full Monty
If VV Putin was a saint, he would be at Solovki, praying for us sinners.
Instead, he tries his best to preserve RF integrity, all the while not starting nuclear annihilation.
He IS on the defensive, you have that right, as he deals with a band of power-maddened psychopats, ordinary crooks and demented chosenites.
When he came to power, his army was in ruin, as was economy and society.Now, the army is being slowly rebuilt, the economy suffers under chosenite attacks but manages and the society is healing - the sodomites and pedophiles are rightly prosecuted.
Now, you are writing that VV Putin should' ve declared an Exclusion Zone after moving into Latakia, right?
Then, Israelis fly a heavy BARCAP into his new zone, and then what?
Shoot them down? WW3 gets hot in 48h.
Let them pass- ok, the exclusion zone is a joke, Quatari start flying missions in support of their catamites on the ground.
Those morons in TelAviv should pray each day for long life to Volodia Putin, because if after him we get another Brejnev or Khroushchev,not the kind to play chess with their enemies, they will play tank armies and nuclear strikes.
As it is, VV Putin is still under illusion that one can reason with chosenites.
IMHO, he's deeply wrong and the time for diplomacy is long past.
Tides of madness and war...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yetwdpsiM8Q
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Though unfortunately in this case you might be right...Russia and Iran are outgunned by the terrorists (US, UK, Israel, the House of Saud, etc..)
When does China jump in?
If ,and when they feel they need to.
They already have been with their island building in the South China Sea. They may join more overtly if the situation in Syria deteriorates further, though I don't really see that happening.
US won't attack any Russian planes, which are lawfully in Syria, whereas US planes are not. It will be curtains for the US should they do so.
Sick of hearing about moderate terrorists and the US training them.
How fucking desperate are we that we must persist at this?
Yet some people I talk to believe that we only want to bring "democracy" SO BAD to the Syrians LOL
Moderate rebels this. Moderate rebels that. Over and over. It's as if the news is (gasp) SCRIPTED! Say it isn't so!
Yanqui go home already!
How our inflated away productivity is being spent.
Nobody invited them.
Reasons Not to watch RT
https://www.rt.com/on-air/
Britain's Daily Telegraph online front page reports:
US intelligence says bomb was planted by Isil on Russian plane as UK halts Egypt flights
Syria played a part in another incident in 1985 when an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood kidnapped Soviet diplomats in retaliation in Beirut - only to get body parts of their families sent to them. No similar kidnaps happened for 20 years.
The outsized troop levels make perfect sense when you don't think of our "advisors" as troops and more like human shields. The plan isn't to win, it's to make Russia win less than it has been, and possibly incur US casualties due to Russian airstrikes which would in turn pull US civilian support into line for a hard stance against Russia. It's all bullshit of course.
Repeat a lie long enough and it becomes the truth, eh Goebbels?
fortunately, there is a rigorous debate in the US Congress and media about 14 years of ME war that seems to mostly be about Israel, the petrodollar, and MIC profiteering.
‘Our relationship to Israel causes dead Americans and enormous expense in fighting Muslims’ — Scheuer to Congress
Ah, the hasbara lamprey fish attached to me is slowing down...
How Israel Covers Up Its Ugly Racial Holy War | Alternet
Posted earlier, and worth remembering when McCain the Insane and the District of Criminals urge more war:
The terrorists backed by the CIA, Mossad and Mi6 are errand boys, cannon fodder.I think things are about to get close up and personal for the individuals who mastermind these Zionist plots to undermine international law and order, and the Middle East in particular.
Meet the A Team, currently on active duty you know where:
Spetsgruppa "A", also known as Alpha Group (a popular English name), or Alfa, whose official name is Directorate "A" of the FSB Special Purpose Center (TsSN FSB), is an elite, stand-alone sub-unit of the Federal Security Service (FSB). It is a dedicated counter terrorism task force. The aim: prevent and respond to violent acts in public transportation and buildings. It is also used for extended police duties, paramilitary operations and covert operations - both domestic and international.
It specializes in making individuals personally responsible for their actions, rather than merely wiping out the errand boys (like the ones seen in the photos issued by ISIS, and distributed by dual citizen Rita Katz of SITE, based in Washington D.C, claiming tax-free status and being paid by the U.S. government, using the tax dollars of trusting Americans).
I thought the picture was California...when rates go negative...they will have to have special forces in US
Damn good time to be a soldier of fortune.
Katz and her family fled to Israel after her father was convicted of spying for Israel in Iraq. Then she came to the USA. Is it a small world in film?
Steven Spielberg's niece, Jessica Katz, daughter of Spielberg's sister (a film writer in Hollyweird) appeared on Israel's version of 'The Voice'.
it's a small club, and you ain't in it....
Full Retard...
...or playing into the hands of the Yinon Plan for a Greater Israel, and the Wolfowitz Doctrine. USG has been infiltrated by dual citizen Zionists. Not all jews are zionist; not all zionists are jews: see Insane McCain, for example. However, Zionism is a supremacist, militarist scheme which has used terrorism since its founding. Indeed, the early leaders of Israel boasted that they were the founders of modern terrorism (e.g. Menachem Begin), and Bibi's Lukud Party is the descendant of zionist terror groups, Irgun and the Stern Gang who attacked Brits and other Westerners, all for their illegal 'jewish state' which has no non-jews in its government, but foists its dual citizens upon our western governments...wasting our blood and treasure on their criminally insane plots.
One possibility, consistent with the small numbers, is that these troops are being sent for Russia to capture and return, embarrassing the US military.
I would have liked to have seen Montana.
I would have liked to have seen the Urals.
Remember the USS Liberty, attacked by Israel off Egypt; a false flag attack; killed and injured hundreds of U.S. servicemen.
Why? To draw the U.S. into more war for Israel during its Six Day War. Israel denied they did it; blamed muslims, but time and investigations proved that Israel did mercilessly slaughter U.S. servicemen. Audio tapes confirm that the Israeli pilots knew the ship was American, and other documents in Congress verify further. Even today, the few survivors of that attack break down in tears when they remember what happened, and how the USG refused to hold Israel to account for its barbarous act of terrorism.
But Israel is America's good friend. They've done so much for the American People. Just start making a list of all the good things they've accomplished for America and you'll see.
The MIC must be creaming their jeans....the men in caves narrative was long in the tooth, and now a resurgent Russia to keep the fear mongering fresh and wallets open.
What no F35 deployment LOLOL J.S.F Just send Funds
Is the F 35 even operational?
I doubt it ever will be, it cannot fly in storms or high wind, the fuel is too close to the engines and will set alight, the electronics are buggy, and they will need years to decode and repair, e.t.c.
In other words, a piece of sheite.
Veterans Today Website is either crazy as a loon, or is there more. This is posted up right now.
Veterans Today has run wonderful articles in the past on UFOs and the Reptilian Overlord Power Structure. Why, they even have subtly implied that Obie might not really be a Born Again Citizen from the Dragos star cluster.
And you were worried that NBC had Brian Williams.
Some Crank/2016
The House of Saud and its extemist Wahhabist doctrine has been closest to the Crown, the sovereign City of London and Britain's Mi6 since its beginnings, and remains so; a tool of centralised control, and ally of arch zionists. Israel and Saudi Arabia routinely work hand in glove, like a two skinned puppet of the self-proclaimed money masters, and 'globalists', carving up the world to their liking.
Veterans Today is a very strange thing; lots of waffle; rarely any verification or named sources.
All hat, no cattle
Here's where we're going to war against a couple of hundred million asians:
Vietnam War-House of the Rising Sun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWEv9Q0XQ4
Keeps getting more crazy!
Israeli and Western bloggers are linking the plane crash "Metrojet-9268" to "Blue Flag 2015" air exercises conducted in the area of the crash. These are the largest exercises of the Israeli air force with participation of the U.S. Air Force, Poland and Greece.
Israeli and American planes simulated air duels, simulated fighting two dozens kilometers from the crash site of the Russian aircraft. The exercises were based at Ovda airport, 70 km from Eilat and close to the Egyptian border, along which Metrojet flew.
This fact should be taken into account in the analysis of the crash of 9268. The Russian plane was flying at such a height that it could not be shot down by the Sinai militants. But whether to rule out an accidental strike by missiles fired from Israeli or American aircraft - let the experts respond to this question.
There is nothing 'Accidental' about it - There was nothing 'Accidental' about Tianjin either !
More confusion being spread, so the prime suspects can delay their day of reckoning, in my opinion. Baffle with bullshit is a favorite ploy. Bibi is a world master of it. Just see his public pronouncements over many years. Even Israelis speculate whether he is insane. Bibi told Israelis that 9/11 was good for them because it would draw more sympathy towards them.
Once a terrorist, always a terrorist...
Whilst schizophrenia may be the modus operandi of current U.S. foreign policy, the Russians are anything but confused...
The US still seems to have no idea that they,themselves, are the ones being surrounded - When push comes to shove they will turn to their 'allies' who simply won't be there ! Putin is quite brilliant !
So you are worse as you are just a murdering warmonger of a different stripe and are hypcritical to write that you are not.
You deserve your Nuclear Holocaust.
Western Europe will be in ruins, in ashes. So will Russia, China, and the USA.
Here is to you.
I pray that you will get exactly what you ask...what you deserve. Did you lnow that it is both a blessing or a curse?
I feel sorry for anyone in the U.S. military right now. Obama is throwing their lives away for nothing.
I feel sorry for anyone in the U.S. military right now. Obama is throwing their lives away for nothing.
Who said after fourteen years that they "must" continue committing treason with their leader(s) in D.C.?... Notice the word "with" instead of "for"!... At some point you take responsibility for your own action in being a partner in crime when you know your breaking every rule of engagement and the "law"!
Where oh.. oh where... is there an officer in the United States Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines that should have been court martialed for war crimes by now with enough of a conscience to be handing out a wallet sized copy of the U.S. Constitution and UCMJ telling all of them to start following orders from "both" of those documents instead of continuing to take orders that will have them and the rest of us killed if they don't stop?...
And soon!!!
The politicians, pundits, and captains of industry are doing monumental contortions trying to apologize, explain, rationalize, all the bullshit and self-destructive activity Obama's military is doing. It's all lies and what surprises me is that fucking baby boomers are leading the charge. 'Da fuck??!
Let the body bags full of American dead keep piling up in Dover Delaware till there is no room for the "living" in Dover Delaware!...
'War Is A Racket', written by America's most decorated soldier, two time recipient of the Medal of Honor, Marine General Smedley Butler, circa 1935. It should be required reading in every school, but it would contradict the monied warmongers and their political pets.
I will donate $5000 to MSF for every US op soldier send in body bag to Washington.
Careful...He's watching you!
We're watching him too.
This is Obama master plan to srink US army.
Rather than fail, it seems that they are trying to make the 'rebels' go back to turkey, jordan and saudi arabia via the corridors left and the pressure they keep.
They have struck infrastructure of logistics for the 'rebels' fighting the SAA, but they didnt make any move to actually cut down the routes/corridors from which these people were coming.
And SAA is pushing the rebels bit by bit, causing a lot to go back to Turkey, Jordan and so on.
So basically they want the 'rebels' to be the problem of those who trained them. If they surrounded those rebels, they would either have to fight them until they die, or they would need to accept their surrender, then rebels would be Syria's problem.
Otherwise SAA already has made massive gains and liberated many regions:
http://syrianperspective.com/
I find that proposition very funny.
Do you look at that with the same sort of joviality?
The House of Saud, Israel, and the US...funding and spreading terrorism worldwide --yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Thought the USSA was "mission accomplished"...
blackwater has been there for a month fucking shit up
"This suggests that the Pentagon is preparing for air-to-air combat with the Russians. " Oh, it's worse than hyperpoly...it's outright PuTzin troll bait.
The last thing that the DemSocialist Party wants is a dust up w/ the Russians on the way to the POTUS election. Their calculus is that it would benefit the GOProgs (Ok, neocon caucus) alleging that Obama's obsequiousness toward the Putzin-Ayatollah Kummfrommany Axis has pushed the US to the brink of war.
Putin should launch a tactical nuke into DC, Riyadh and Tel Aviv. 95% of world's problems solved
only one?
Hat tip to the ZHemmroiders; Left-Handers, CAIR rectum snooters, Putzin HasbraTrinas, and Buchenwald Oven Operator Union members...The Joooos are the Masters of the Universe. Not even Putzin's domain is safe. ;)
To bad Merikans aren't as interested in self determination.
One in Three Russians Exempt From Military Service for Medical Reasons
- By Eva Hartog
- Nov. 03 2015 15:18
- Last edited 15:19
Denis Abramov / VedomostiThe most common health problems among this year's conscripts were musculoskeletal disorders — a category that includes arthritis and osteoporosis.Roughly one third of this year's potential conscripts have been exempted from serving in the Russian military for medical reasons, the head of the Defense Ministry's main military medical directorate, Alexander Fisun, told the Rossiiskaya Gazeta newspaper on Tuesday.
This year, about 30 percent of conscripts were turned down after failing medical tests — a trend that has remained constant in recent years, the report said.
Many Russian draftees fake medical conditions to dodge their military duties amid widespread reports of brutal hazing and abuse in army barracks.
In July, a 19-year-old conscript in the Chelyabinsk region died days after he was beaten over the head with an iron flask by his immediate superior, in one of many examples of fatal beatings and suicides to have plagued the Russian army for decades.
But according to Fisun, the high number of rejections is directly related to the medical committee's high standards.
“We don't need sick soldiers in the army,” Fisun told Rossiiskaya Gazeta. “That's why young people go through at least three medical committees in the military directorate,” he said.
The most common health problems among this year's conscripts were musculoskeletal disorders — a category that includes arthritis and osteoporosis. Neuropsychological conditions were the second most frequent medical condition, often caused by “adaption problems encountered in the conscripts' youth,” Fisun said. Circulatory system diseases — such as hypertension — and respiratory diseases, like asthma, were the third most common reason for exemption on medical grounds, the report said.
More than 63,000 conscripts were recruited in the fall draft which began in October, Interfax news agency reported.
Russia's military fervor is at a years-long high following Russia's annexation of Crimea last year and air strikes in Syria. But societal attitudes toward the draft are divided.
A recent survey by the state-run VTsIOM pollster showed one quarter of respondents said they thought the army “crippled young people morally, and sometimes physically,” whereas 64 percent said it provided moral and physical training.
Ten percent of respondents thought the time served primarily gave people experience in “humiliation and abuse,” while at least four times as many people cited “physical strength and stamina,” “courage,” “life experience,” and other positive attributes.
The negative view of the army is less widespread now than in a similar poll conducted in 1990, when 42 percent thought serving was a crippling experience, the survey showed.
The VTsIOM survey was conducted from Oct. 10 to 11 and questioned 1,600 people in 46 Russian regions. The margin of error did not exceed 3.5 percent.
Denis Abramov - yid
Lebanon's satellite television channel al-Mayadeen reported, citing an unnamed military source.
Ya gotta love this!!! Where did the Lebanese learn this trick? CNN or Faux Neus???
Nah, Ministry of Propaganda (Obama's or Putzin's?).
BTW . . . the way that the Tylers, or whoever the hell wrote this article, put it it makes it sound like the Russians (Sputnik) was quoting the "unnamed Lebanese military source" directly. That was NOT what they were doing at all!! They were simply stating that Lebanese Satellite Television was quoting the unnamed source. Yeah, I know it's semantics but the way they put it makes it sound like the Russians are doing exactly what the MSM in the USA does, ad-nauseam. That simply was not the case.
Yup
1. Anyone know where our navy is over there?
2. The minute an American jet or American troop formation gets blown up, I'm buying a 1 way ticket out of the U.S.
3. This shit is insane.
Ninety Percent of the US Navy is NOT deployed but the ships sit in their home ports.
That was according to the most recent STRATFOR Maps (Strategic Force Deployment) published here on Zerohedge a couple of weeks ago.
I read a couple of weeks ago that the US doesn't even have an aircraft carrier deployed in the Mediterranean Sea due to maintenance issues.
Those 26 Russian Kalibr SS-N-30A cruise missiles fired from the Caspian Sea seems to have spooked some people in the US Navy.
It stunned more than a few people around the world.
https://twitter.com/KURDISTAN_ARMY/status/651789249705078784/video/1
Special ops are always around, the only question is which uniform they'll wear... 'ours' or 'the enemy'.... British SAS have already been captured as ISIS 'volunteers', so nothing new, but the tracking program.
AMERIKA: GOING FOR BROKE.