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Volkswagen Tumbles Again As Emissions Scandal Deepens, Gasoline Engines Dragged In: Wall Street's Reaction

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The thing about sweeping corporate scandals is that once you start finding out where all the bodies are buried you usually discover that whatever event or revelation served as the impetus for the investigation was in fact just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. 

Indeed, it now looks as though that assessment will certainly apply to the Volkswagen emissions scandal because as it turns out, in addition to software installed on some 11 million diesel vehicles designed to game nitrogen oxide tests, Germany’s largest carmaker has also been habitually understating CO2 output on around 800,000 cars sold in Europe.

As Bloomberg reports, the company found “unexplained inconsistencies” while conducting an internal probe related to carbon-dioxide output.

For the first time, gasoline engines are also said to be affected. 

"VW is leaving us all speechless," Evercore ISI’s Arndt Ellinghorst said. "It seems to us that this is another issue triggered by VW's internal investigation and potentially related to Europe."

It “seems” that way to us as well. Meanwhile, the company is fighting allegations by the EPA that some SUVs sold in the US are also equipped with questionable “software.” From Reuters

U.S. environmental regulators said on Monday that similar "defeat devices" were installed on larger 3.0 litre engines used in luxury sport utility vehicles from Porsche and Audi, although VW has denied those allegations.

 

Porsche's North American unit said it was discontinuing sales of Porsche Cayenne diesel sport utility vehicles until further notice, citing the allegations.

And from BofAML:

The EPA issued a second notice of violation of the Clean Air Act to VW, potentially increasing the fines the company is liable for. Under the Clean Air Act, the EPA can fine a car manufacturer up to $37,500 per vehicle for violations. The EPA held a press conference yesterday to announce the results. The EPA (along with counterparts in California and Canada) found that, when the defeat device was deactivated, total emissions of nitrogen oxide were up to nine times the amount permitted. Since the VW diesel scandal broke in September, the EPA has been testing all the new diesel models available in the US. So far, only VW has been implicated. 

Finally, from Bloomberg:

The 3.0-liter diesel motors targeted on Monday by the EPA probe aren’t part of the latest company finding. Volkswagen rejected allegations that its cheating on diesel-emissions tests included the Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg sport utility vehicles and as well as larger sedans and the Q5 SUV from Audi, setting up a showdown with the regulator.

 

“You’re fighting against the biggest regulator in the world,” Arndt Ellinghorst, a London-based analyst in Evercore ISI, said on Bloomberg TV. “This can get pretty ugly.”

Yes it sure can. And speaking of ugly, here’s a look at the reaction in VW shares:

As far as the new findings regarding CO2 emissions are concerned, the company said the issue could add some €2 billion to the nearly €7 billion already earmarked for vehicle "repairs." Here's a peak at the sellside reactions: 

  • Exane BNP Paribas (neutral, PT EU116)
    • Adding EU4b in VW recall/compensation costs for the latest 800k cars to previous est. EU12b costs
    • Reducing 2016 EPS by 10%, may affect customer behavior more than diesel engine recall
    • See potential ramifications across sector; sees CO2 risks greatest at Daimler and least at Renault
    • Tire makers may be safest place in sector
  • JPMorgan (neutral)
    • Latest news brings total provisioning to EU8.7b, JPM est. total liability now EU13.2b including legal claims
    • Co. leaving “no stone unturned,” has EU27.8b net cash to face crisis
  • Credit Suisse (underperform)
    • New EU2b provision implies cost of EU2,500/car for gasoline engine vehicles affected vs EU609/car for diesels
    • “Key question” remains whether there will be other disclosures
    • See VW’s credibility deteriorating; uncertainty not priced in
  • UBS (buy)
    • Will add to pressure on VW shares and concern about costs and governance
    • Reiterates investment case; sees EU32b negative value after EU35b in total fixing and litigation costs, co can cope with those costs over 5+ yrs without raising capital

So yeah, bad news all around. Barclays is also out with a bit of commentary on the near-term implications: 

According to Automotive News Europe, the models affected are VW, Seat and Skoda vehicles that use 1.4-, 1.6- and 2.0-liter diesels built in 2012 and later. These so far include VW Golf, Polo, Passat, Audi A1 and A3, Seat Ibiza and Skoda Octavia models. VW's 1.4-liter ACT gasoline engine in the Polo that has cylinder on demand technology is also affected. The issue of potentially false CO2 levels mainly affects Europe, the biggest market for diesel cars, where a model's carbon emissions are always communicated to consumers. 

 

We believe that this latest development increases the risk of a downgrade at Moody’s (A2 negative) given that the agency only changed the outlook from stable to negative so far. Fitch (A Watch negative) could also decide to act on its negative watch and cut by one notch and keep the company on watch negative, as S&P did in October 2015 (A- Watch negative). 

 

As for the longer-term implications, just about the last thing Germany needs is for its exports to be crippled by the demise of the largest player in the country's proud auto industry just as demand from China collapses. On that note, we remind you that the surest sign of a problem is when officials and policymakers start telling the public there's no problem and with that, we close with comments out today from German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel:

"I’m firmly convinced, with more than 100 years of experience in quality from the ‘Made in Germany’ label in industrial production, that this problem will be overcome. I’m very certain that this won’t mean sustained damage to German industry."

 

*  *  *

"Stability in volatile times"...

 

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Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:13 | 6747920 Who was that ma...
Who was that masked man's picture

Germans.  If it's not one damn thing it's another.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:15 | 6747927 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

This VW scandal has me exhaustipated - to tired to give a shit!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:21 | 6747942 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

I think people really fail to appreciate the gravity of this situation.  

Either way, Germans don't give a shit as VW sales have accelerated in Germany since this scandal broke.  

Fuck the EPA.  

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:26 | 6747951 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Fuck the EPA.

 

Needed to be said.

 

Kill those guys and the NEA.....give the money back to the American people in the form of a tax refund.

 

You want Hope and Change? There you go!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:26 | 6747954 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

This one reason is why I don't diefy Reagan like many do.  He had the opportunity to slit the throats of both the EPA and the DoE while they were still infants in the cradle.  Instead he made them bigger.  

Fuck that guy too.   

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:30 | 6747969 negative rates
negative rates's picture

And remember, these engines have been proved to be defectivly designed in more ways than one, not that American engines are not also, so just BTFD, will ya?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:39 | 6747991 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Far Fig Newton! (whatever that is mean in German)

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:49 | 6748011 Brooks_Orpington
Brooks_Orpington's picture

I love fig newtons!  They come in a low fat version now.  Very healthy, I'm told.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:12 | 6748062 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

this is so fucking stupid; which shouldn't be a surprise to any of us here, given that this is all about the psycho-Fascist cult of enviro-MENTAL-ism.

Good for VW!!!!  I wish I could go out and buy one of those EPA dodging turbo-diesels!  They're great fucking cars and get great fucking mileage, which isn't that supposed to be a consideration to the enviro-NAZI's too?  Fuck them!

But I can't pick up a new VW right now cuz I already have an F250 Powerstroke Diesel and 2 other full-size V8's

SO ALL YOU RETARDED EPA NAZI BITCHEZ CAN SUCK ON MY TAIL-PIPES!

END THE EPA!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:27 | 6748122 COSMOS
COSMOS's picture

I guess Vicki wasn't kidding when she said "FUCK THE EU".

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:05 | 6748199 mtl4
mtl4's picture

Crushing VW (Germany) which is the lynch pin of the EU will not bode well for Europe in general.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:50 | 6748500 Stackers
Stackers's picture

"Biggest regulator in the world"

That by the way was created by imperial executive decree and never had an actual LAW passed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorganization_Plan_No._3

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 14:35 | 6749495 sodbuster
sodbuster's picture

It just makes me want a VW all the more!!!!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:36 | 6748433 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Perhaps VW didn't lobby enough...didn't donate to enough  campaigns.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:28 | 6748396 RadioFlyer
RadioFlyer's picture

Rolling coal baby!

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 23:00 | 6752069 valjoux7750
valjoux7750's picture

Defectivly designed? Where does that come from, ive never owned a car that had a Defectivly designed engine. What a bonehead statement. Care to clarify that one?

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:40 | 6748160 juicemoney
juicemoney's picture

Reagan also signed the no-fault divorce bill a California's governor in 1971, the first state to do so.

That snowballed and now 1/2 of all kids come from a broken home, resulting in a far higher chance of delinquency. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 12:05 | 6748811 Dominus Ludificatio
Dominus Ludificatio's picture

The problem is not the EPA ,its VW and their arrogance ,even if this  has been exaggerated a bit. People wrongly trusted German products to have no hidden faults becuse Germans supposedly were  anal about perfection in their products.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:43 | 6750742 JoeSoMD
JoeSoMD's picture

According to a friend that has business contacts in Germany, the general public there is distraught about this.  Germans, like Americans, perceived, in general, German products as near perfect.  Big blow to the German physchi (sp?).

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:34 | 6747976 VAD
VAD's picture

If they'd make a little rabbit truck with a diesel like they did decades ago, I'd be very interested right now.  If diesel wasn't an option, the 2.0 gas would suit me fine.  If for no other reason than to give the big FU to the EPA.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:49 | 6748010 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

"No one saw this coming."

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:35 | 6747978 wisebastard
wisebastard's picture

Good thing Hitler is not in power

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:41 | 6747995 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Design of Volkwagon ("Volk" = "Folk", "Wagon" = "Car") was make it by Adolf Hitler himself as Car for the Folk, or "The People's Automobile". This is Wikifact!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:44 | 6748476 Who was that ma...
Who was that masked man's picture

Maybe he is.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 19:46 | 6751122 Who was that ma...
Who was that masked man's picture

Hitler is alive and well on ZH.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:43 | 6748472 Expectorant
Expectorant's picture
Fükrvergnügen the EPA.
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:13 | 6747921 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

ha ha to to all those pious vw drivers

agw is a scam

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:47 | 6748007 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

You are deny "the science"!? How dare are you defy high priest of Global Warming! You will bow at alter of unprovable theory and political agenda! You will show gratitude for the overlords!

Look around at this world we've made
Equality our stock in trade
Come and join the Brotherhood of Man
Oh, what a nice, contented world
Let the banners be unfurled
Hold the Red Star proudly high in hand

We are the Priests of the Temples of Syrinx
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls
We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx
All the gifts of life are held within our walls

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:14 | 6748081 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

good one, Boris.  +1000 for pulling out a can of old school RUSH whoop ass!!! 

nice!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:41 | 6748460 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Or try "Amerika" by Rammstein, now with added irony..

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:52 | 6748505 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is big fan of Rushian music!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:15 | 6747926 silverer
silverer's picture

Yeah, but the cars run great.  Government.  If it's not one damned thing it's another.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:18 | 6747935 Latitude25
Latitude25's picture

Bearish Platinum and Palladium.  BTFD

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:18 | 6747936 cinderalle
cinderalle's picture

Germany is being taken down, if not by fake charges , then by millions of fake asylum seekers, germans better wake up to the fact that the socialist merkel is actually a globalist and working for the bankers

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:30 | 6747968 yogibear
yogibear's picture

With the millions rushing into Europe for it's freebies it will be done for by 10 years. No amount of QE will help it now. The invaders will bring their families and have no intention on assimilating into the local culture. The rush by the libtard globalist have just destroyed themselves.Looking forward will be strict Islamic law. Where gays and liberals are severely punished and banned.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:35 | 6747980 ToSoft4Truth
ToSoft4Truth's picture

Technically, aren’t the ‘libtards’ the Germans who are allowing their country to be diluted?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:37 | 6747988 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

De-populate and cause chaos and destruction in the countries that neighbour Israel, take those people and use them to over-populate and cause chaos and destruction in a region that could oppose them (if they were stable and allied with Russia).  Win win for the Zionists, lose lose for humanity.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:40 | 6747994 Frumundacheeze
Frumundacheeze's picture

Are neocons the new "libtard"?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:43 | 6748473 Sirius Wonderblast
Sirius Wonderblast's picture

Looking forward what there will be at some point in time civil war, pogroms, genocide.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:36 | 6747985 Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

merkel, leading globalist witch

 

but, ..fake asylum seekers?

 

not crisis actors streaming from syria, iraq 

 

neocon engineered crisis, yes, with actual human victims

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:44 | 6748003 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

How are neocons different from progressives again?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:20 | 6748100 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

It's mainly in the spelling and pronunciation.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 13:03 | 6749090 detached.amusement
detached.amusement's picture

cmon that's a TOTALLY different spelling /s

 

 

perhaps I should refresh an hours old page before responding

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:01 | 6748044 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The basis of all power is dependency. Corporations live by their stock valuations, which we know has little to do with their profitability or even viability. It is ALL based upon dependency upon the government taxation, regulation, and significant economic policies. Corporations are their bitches, and while bitches will attempt to influence and motivate their masters actions, bitches they still are. Government is a living organism that like our own bodies is comprised of many different and sometimes competing parts, but ultimately "it" always pursues its own survival and success.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:12 | 6748054 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

The prevalent business model, all around, seems to be that of plunder.

"The law perverted!..."

History rhymes, and
Technology grinds.
Man is slave to the
Creations of his mind.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:23 | 6748114 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

The natural tendency of power is corruption, and regardless of what we believe of corporations (and yes they too are corrupt) they are still subservient to government. Most would have ended up on their knees or gone if not for the largess generosity of government with OUR money. No corporation can do what government can, which is why they are always so desperate to control or influence it, but there can be no question of where the ultimate seat of power is.

For me, I have always seen the media, MSM, as the controlling entity as they seem to always be the ones determining right from wrong, who is to be heard and so forth. But in reality, they are only serving their master, and we (and they)know they can be limited very easily by government if desired. Government is a complex organism with many different parts, but they all combine to serve but one thing, that organism's survival and success. Corporations are simply a component....as to some degree we all are.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:33 | 6748141 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

It is a giant squid, with each of its tentacles seemingly as powerful as the beast itself (though that illusion is purposefully and necessarily maintained by the beast). Banks and corporations, media and skools, tentacles all. Without the squid, man is not bound by the tentacles, but the greatest trick the squid has played is to convince man (read brainwash), by deception or force, that its existence is an absolute necessity.

The very existence of this VW "scandal" is a function and side-effect of big gubbamin.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 18:45 | 6750752 JoeSoMD
JoeSoMD's picture

If VW goes down, expect Google and MS to go down too.  There will be retribution.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:18 | 6747937 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Blatent deception is worth bankruptcy. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:20 | 6747939 pods
pods's picture

Cars emit CO2?

Wow good thing I was sitting down. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:22 | 6747941 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

After the 2004 misconstruction they sold me, Passat (German for POS) I hope the fuckers go out of business.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:21 | 6747943 RealityCheque
RealityCheque's picture

AGW is bollocks. Why not cheat on an unjust test?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:21 | 6747944 brada1013567
brada1013567's picture

And the market hits new highs!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:35 | 6747981 VAD
VAD's picture

because why not

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:22 | 6747945 ToSoft4Truth
ToSoft4Truth's picture

Here’s the weird thing.  ALL other auto manufactures were presumably able to meet the emission requirements without cheating.

Why is VW the only company so mismanaged and technically inept, they had to cheat… to compete with third-worlders like Kia nad Subaru, but did have the wherewithal to know HOW to cheat.  

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:35 | 6747979 BlackVoid
BlackVoid's picture

presumably is the keyword.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:22 | 6747946 SSRI Junkie
SSRI Junkie's picture

my distrust of the .gov mafia has never been as high as it is now. i'd even believe the obola administration and it's epa brownshirts are employing a government motors protection scam on vw...after 7 years of watching obola's goons in action, i'd put nothing past these gangsters

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:56 | 6748029 Arnold
Arnold's picture

In some Alternative Universe, like Banking, Volkswagen would be considered an agressive innovator.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:28 | 6748398 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

To extend your thought ... They could have had an emission control unit by AMBAC, FGIC or MBIA and emission testing by S&P and Moody's.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:23 | 6747949 sudzee
sudzee's picture

The software was installed because the engines don't meet standards. Estimates of costs associated are widely underestimated. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:12 | 6748073 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Do we know by how much they actually deviate from legal limits? Is it any surprise that cheating is going on? We are talking of massive amounts of money, and Germans are not typically lazy engineers. And are we to believe that GM's engineers have figured out something the Germans have not, especially given the long history of VW diesels? Something stinks here and I don't think it is diesel emissions. Exactly how much has VW contributed to the campaigns of US politicians and their "foundations"? Just wondering

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:54 | 6748216 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Nah, just a little hint like they did to Britain the other day to the Germans to get to signing that TTIP or we will break your other arm. If Europe don't wake up soon...............

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:27 | 6748389 bearwinkle
bearwinkle's picture

VW cheated so their cars performance would be better. If they set the software for minimum pollution the car will run like crap. Same reason you see black smoke coming out of (some) diesel trucks, they purposely have their mechanic make the air to fuel ration richer which means more horsepower/torque.

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:23 | 6747950 mijev
mijev's picture

And now we know the difference between what happens when a company that manufactures actual products pisses off the regulators ... vs what happens when bank pulls the same stunt.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:18 | 6748343 economessed
economessed's picture

Thread over - that's the best comment.  Well done, mijev.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:25 | 6747953 brada1013567
brada1013567's picture

Just buy a Tesla

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:37 | 6748388 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

or a Lightning LS-218.

https://youtu.be/PPqDTLn10iI?t=200 (language/torque warning)
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:26 | 6747955 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

1 in 7 German jobs are tied to autos.  As goes VW, so does Germany,

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:01 | 6748016 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

And by allowing cheap labor to come in to the country, the manufacturing jobs (VW et. al.) and controls will stay in Germany.

So instead of exporting manufacturing to obtain lower labor costs, they are importing cheap labor to Germany.

Similar to whereever there are lax border controls or weak policies.

It is a similar plan everywhere the jobs can't be exported, allow large migration into your country.

Walmart, McD's, Target, (all retail) also follow or indirectly support this plan to keep costs low, low, low.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:37 | 6748151 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Northern Europe has been a leader in automation technology, as has Japan, and I believe this is due to their relatively high cost of labor. Given the propensity of "immigrants" to not be terribly inclined to actual work, given the generous social policies of this area, I doubt their arrival is driven nearly as much by interests of manufacturing as it is by those who seek social policy utopia. There are those who will drink poison in the belief in its curative powers...to their death. This is so much easier when you are simply prescribing the poison to others rather than ingesting yourself. Utopian dreams can only be funded through debt as redistribution of productivity runs out pretty quickly. Business can only afford technology if they have paying customers. People without jobs make terrible customers, regardless of how cheap the product, without credit. Credit(debt) is funding and distorting and ultimately destroying our economy, and within it, our society. If you want a One World Government, and that is reliant on the destruction of borders and culture, there is no more effective means of doing so than through the destruction of our economies.

Just look around and you will see it happening before your eyes.....everywhere.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 11:50 | 6748747 Dominus Ludificatio
Dominus Ludificatio's picture

Cheap labour is good for restaurants and retail but cannot replace robots. VW deserves to be trimmed down. Their cheap cars designed to fail and bring you back to their dealers.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:27 | 6747962 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

And I didn't buy a VW because the salesman was down right snotty.. wish i could find the guys Card.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:29 | 6747965 IndianaJohn
IndianaJohn's picture

Jew just can't get enough of punishing Germany.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:33 | 6747973 wisebastard
wisebastard's picture

“unexplained inconsistencies” is the PC way of saying A TON OF BULL SHIT...................

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:33 | 6747974 BlackVoid
BlackVoid's picture

Germany is under attack by an engineered refugee crisis and also by US regulators. Probably all automakers cheat, but they are immune to any kind of regulatory oversight.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:38 | 6747984 HenryHall
HenryHall's picture

VW still hasn't got the message?

This is not about emissions.

This is about payola.

Past time for VW, Porche, Audi to withdraw from the North America market.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:38 | 6747989 Frumundacheeze
Frumundacheeze's picture

I remember a blurb from the VW president when this story first broke in which he stated, "everyone is doing it". I'm wondering if there's any validity to this statement. If so, why was it quickly buried by the media, with the blame laser focused squarely at the apparent "sacrificial lamb" that is Volkswagen?

Insights anyone?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:39 | 6747992 HenryHall
HenryHall's picture

It's very hard to make a man understand something when his wealth depends on not understanding it.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:04 | 6748028 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

There are many "off-market" or post-market gadgets (from a half-dozen companies) for these various cars to adjust their performance, mileage, emissions, and fuel efficiency.  You can see them online.  Diesel or Gasoline.  Ever since computers and software became integral with the automobile drivetrain.  It is a sign of the times.    Should be interesting to see where this all goes.  It seems many tweak their cars post-market and then remove the tweaker when they get the smog-check.  I'm sure the California DMV is taking notes.   One of these days....these gadgets may go under-black market, and made illegal.   I'd say this has been evolving for 10 or 20 years, maybe since the late 1970's...so it is now a popular subject.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:12 | 6748074 nosam
nosam's picture

I bet everyone is doing it. But this whole story is fishy. The problem was discovered more than a year before it became a big deal in the MSM. I think that there is some agenda behind the media suddenly making it a big story.

It maybe part of the plan to crush Germany.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:50 | 6748192 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

This is how corruption works. People are induced to cheat because everyone does it, but only after you have done so do you understand that you are THEIR bitch. Step out of line and its YOUR ass, even though in fact they are all doing it, none will admit it and no one will ask.

Read Atlas Shrugged. Business colluding to eliminate competitors, all under the nose of government. And then to their own surprise, they each ultimately find THEMSELVES the target for elimination.

Notice in our corporate world today that business cannot actually advance through competition where they actually out work, out smart, out compete. They advance by buying their competition, by buying their market share. By owning the market share they are actually under less competitive pressure which translates into less quality of service and product for the customer. The European car manufactures have put lots of competitive pressure on US manufactures, pressure that has resulted in a significant improvement across the board. But this pressure is not appreciate by GM and Ford. Do not be confused. This is not protectionism of American corporations to benefit American jobs. It is corporate protectionism, that we see employs fewer and fewer Americans. The production is still foreign, only OWNED by American corporations.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:43 | 6748469 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Yep, see Microsoft:  Word Perfect was a much better product than Word; Quattro was much better than Excel.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:55 | 6748524 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Next you are say Apple Macintosh computer is better than is Windows PC, that iPhone is better than AirPhone, that iPod is better than is Zune. Ah, Boris is remember social enjoyment of Zune!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:41 | 6747998 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Too Big To Heil...

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:42 | 6747999 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So, why does Merkel need young middle eastern vorkers again? ;-)

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:53 | 6748021 SSRI Junkie
SSRI Junkie's picture

when germany reaches the muslim import goal set by the globalist oligarchs, the emission problem will magically go away

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:35 | 6748277 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

So "dilution is the solution" on both counts?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 12:22 | 6748895 SSRI Junkie
SSRI Junkie's picture

lol..."The Final Dilution"

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:52 | 6748020 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Volkswagen makes great cars.  Already own one.  Will be buying another.

 

But this emissions scandal is beautiful.  Just means that I get to buy cheaper and the German taxpayer will cover any losses from the company.

 

Keep piling on so I get buy my next VW dirt cheap!!!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:00 | 6748042 Arnold
Arnold's picture

Might need a little work.

 

http://classiccars.com/listings/find/1969/volkswagen/beetle

Glad to help.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:20 | 6748104 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

younger is better than older

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:01 | 6748033 valjoux7750
valjoux7750's picture

I can pretty much bet no car sold csn pass an emissions test. When they are tested at the factory they are tested at ideal conditions not real world. The engines we build at the plant i work at are only emmisions tested in the morning when it is cool. Test them in the afternoon and it wont pass. is someone out to get VW?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 08:58 | 6748034 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

CO2 output can be calculated using math. Shame on VW for cheating on math. I thought science was like a religion to the germans but as it turns out they are a bunch of heathen infidel fascist swine just like the rest of us.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:01 | 6748043 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

I see an analogy between the Volkswagen scandal and the stock market in general.  Eventually it will be revealed stock prices have been artificially inflated by falsified data and backroom deals between the Fed, its member banks and the exchanges.  

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:22 | 6748059 silverer
silverer's picture

Actually, one thing I heard bad about VW passenger cars is something to do with the diesel engine design that causes an expensive repair if you try to pile on the miles, something that is different on other brands of diesels.  Basically, most people see diesels as long term running engines if they are maintained well.  I can say VW diesels run pretty damned well.  A friend of mine pulled up in one and you can't even tell it's a diesel just by listening to the engine run.  I would bet most people would get in and drive it and not even realize it's a diesel.  But that still doesn't remove the ulcer agenda Wolfsburg is facing.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:11 | 6748066 InsanityIsWinning
InsanityIsWinning's picture

I recently bought a Passat with the small turbo gas engine . . . the more I live with it the more I like it, much more refined than Jap cars.  This scandel may hurt VW in the longer run by diverting money away from R & D.  We'll see how much bail out $ they get from Merkel . . .

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:11 | 6748070 silverer
silverer's picture

CO2 levels.  OK, here are some CO2 level measurements:

CO2 levels 150 million years ago: about 2,200 PPM volume.

CO2 levels 65 million years ago: about 900 PPM volume.

CO2 levels today: about 397 PPM volume.

Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya -- 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period).

The government can make anything look bad.  Just legislate it into badness.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:19 | 6748096 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

you are in need of reeducation comrade silverer

You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr. [/Idiocracy]

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:24 | 6748116 silverer
silverer's picture

I've seen your postings.  I think we're both dead in the water, comrade.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:31 | 6748132 RushRoolz
RushRoolz's picture

If CO2 makes it warmer, I'm all for more CO2.

 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 11:43 | 6748722 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

I'm sure Jerry would agree:

https://youtu.be/3McfrgMN8EM?t=56
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:19 | 6748098 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Germany pivots toward Russia.

 

Gets slammed financially.

 

Big surprise.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:33 | 6748140 Chia-Pet
Chia-Pet's picture

Will they still bail out Greece?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:35 | 6748148 pliny the longer
pliny the longer's picture

this is an issue near and dear to my family who is in the diesel business:  i went academia, the rest of them actually learned a skill and do useful things but i digress;  this issue has been the openest secret for years, this same 'scandal' happened to large trucks a few years back; but because only granola hippies and weirdos drive diesels nobody cared; until now.  the fact is though the germans have perfected and i mean perfected the diesel engine for passenger cars; my family only drives benz and vw diesels and when you only buy 1 car per 18 years its easy to see why; shame the EPA is ruining the least pollutive best technology for auto transport; long vw and benz diesel while can still be had . . .

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:36 | 6748435 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I don't understand why my 1997 vw diesel or wife's similar vintage VW diesel (both A3 engines) used to pass but the new super-duper common rail engines don't.  I use to get in the high 40s mpg.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:40 | 6748159 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Maybe I am the only idiot but I think VW's non-compliance is a good thing.

If I had a job I would buy a VW.  Just no employment oppportunities in moms basement.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:44 | 6748173 lamont cranston
lamont cranston's picture

I'm on my 2nd TDI Jetta wagon. You cannot believe how much stuff one can hold, plus the consistent 40 mpg. I drive 55-60K/yr and hope one will be available 2-3 yrs from now. 

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:48 | 6748186 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Sorry, but our new emissions control fix will drop that back to a consistent 29 miles per gallon...

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:23 | 6748370 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Wait till the mandatory EPA software upgrade, we gonna have vw owners hiding their cars from the government upgrade techs?

Or Asian software cheat guys?

How about on the fly engine software shifts to game on the fly pollution monitors?

This BS ends with immigration enforcement.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:48 | 6748179 Jack Oliver
Jack Oliver's picture

The VW emissions crisis is totally manufacted by the US - This will push the small- medium car market toward their favourite 'vassal' JAPAN - It's like a big thankyou to Japan for letting the US RAPE them !

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:48 | 6748185 katchum
katchum's picture

It's not like earnings will be affected much, it's just a huge fine which decreases book value.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:50 | 6748197 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

And since this is based on emissions - you can bet that any fine imposed by the global warming crowd will be HUGE!

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:54 | 6748203 valjoux7750
valjoux7750's picture

From the cheating department. We recently had a competitor get hold of one of our engines because they couldnt believe we could pass emmisions on this particular engine. Well when they tested it it failed. What did they do? Sent the EPA after us. Spent months trying to determine the cause of the failure, couldnt find it. Long story short, while the EPA was on the roof testing the exhaust output we were pumping air into the exhaust stack to dilute the exhaust. Needless to say,  we passed.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:53 | 6748212 Shibboleth
Shibboleth's picture

CO2?

On the other side of the globe China is burning all the coal:

http://nyti.ms/1H4SIUi

So what is the problem with VW tweaking some engine management software?

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:29 | 6748400 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Mind boggling to calculate the coal burnt in China building US solar panels, then add transport and installation and disposal the CO2 numbers get really staggering.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 09:56 | 6748231 pliny the longer
pliny the longer's picture

golly, it almost seems like if someone could just figure out a way to undo the forthcoming 'fix' they'd stand to make some DL money!!!  never mind, where's the free shit

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:00 | 6748260 iClaudius
iClaudius's picture

Thank goodness for VW. At least someone is treating this environazi nonsense with the contempt it deserves. I hope they release an all electric vehicle and call it the Watemelon.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 10:17 | 6748329 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Predicted this, and all the other manufacturers except Honda also cheated, big trucks too.

.....and all those Mexican trucks, they* lied there too.

US EPA.

Americans ability to absorb millions of additional new immigrants and refugees and NOT meet existing human air quality standards (let alone future standrads) now and into the future $till not questioned.

The real Judge Dredd?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/john-roberts-immigration_56388721e4b...

Feds: Volkswagen caused 59 lung cancer deaths
Americans: US invasion policy caused 2 million deaths

See the liability problem.

Prediction the Roberts court will limit corporate liability cuz he's a tool.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 11:10 | 6748591 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

The VW flouting of regulation makes a mockery of the entire effort at 'saving the environment'.  The company will pay a fine, a few executives will pull the ripcord on their $50 milliion retirement packages, and the world will go back to bidness-as-usual.  I for one am modifying my behavior as a result of Fuckushima, the daily coal-dusting of CA by China, and scandals like this one @ VW.  Going forward, I'm not going to give a shit about the environment.  Fuck it.  What a joke.

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 11:15 | 6748613 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Quotes you'll never see on a ZH title

"Emissions limits questioned, immigration growth capacity questioned"

Wed, 11/04/2015 - 12:20 | 6748881 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
VW US sales rise despite scandal http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34715268
Wed, 11/04/2015 - 13:08 | 6749109 kaboomnomic
kaboomnomic's picture

Everytime i see that VW logo? I remember that flower generations VW big van, used for bukkake style sex, while smoking ganja/lsd, while your penis gets clamydia & AIDS.

Ahh.. good times... gooooddd times...

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