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A Practical Guide to Hawaiian Secession

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Ryan McMaken via The Mises Institute,

The BBC reports this week that a secession movement in Hawaii continues to simmer under the surface:

An upcoming election has highlighted the deep disagreement between native Hawaiians over what the future should look like. For some, it's formal recognition of their community and a changed relationship within the US. Others want to leave the US entirely - or more accurately, want the US to leave Hawai'i.

Much of the antipathy to DC stems from the grievances of the indigenous population which is quite familiar of how wealthy white ranchers in the late 19th century overthrew the legitimate government of Hawaii and formed  a pro-US puppet government in its stead. Eventually, annexation followed.

Nevertheless, the fact that some Hawaiians want independence does not mean that most do. While it's true that whites are only 25 percent of the Hawaiian population, it's also true that indigenous Hawaiians and other pacific islander groups only comprise ten percent of Hawaii's population. The largest demographic group in Hawaii is Asian-Americans, who make up 38 percent of the population (not including people of mixed parentage.)

If the secessionists are ever to sell secession to the overall population, they would have to offer something more practical than solidarity with the indigenous population or appeals to local patriotism.

Potentially, the costs of secession could be high if the US decided to regard the Hawaiian government as a hostile regime (thus bringing economic sanctions), and of course, spending by the US government in Hawaii — funded by mainland taxpayers — is extensive.

Practically speaking, however, there is a lot of real estate between the current status quo for Hawaii and full-blown independence. It is unlikely that Hawaii would fully remove the US from the islands any time soon, no matter how unpopular the regime in DC became. It is likely that Washington would resort to military action before it would be willing to give up its military installations in and around Pearl Harbor. Look, for example, at how the US has held onto Guantanamo Bay, even when Cuba became aligned militarily with the Soviet Union.

However, there is no reason that that Hawaii could not reach a compromise with the US in which Hawaii obtains domestic autonomy while remaining a military ally and resource for the US. The world is full of such arrangement, and many countries have relationships with regions (many of which are islands and overseas territories) that use their own currency and have their own systems of government while remaining part of a larger political body.

It does not follow logically, of course, that Hawaii, even if it were to allow a US military presence, would have to use US currency or submit to US regulations of trade.

In fact, freedom from federally imposed restrictions on trade would be among the greatest benefits for Hawaiians in the case of independence. As Gary Galles noted here in Mises Daily, Hawaii, as part of the US's domestic market, is heavily restricted by the Jones Act. The Jones Act restricts the nature and extent of shipping that can take place in and out of American ports. Galles writes: 

Jones Act costs are made clearest in Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Alaska, where it most severely limits supply lines.

 

In 2014, shipping a forty-foot container from Los Angeles to Honolulu reportedly cost more than ten times shipping it to Singapore. Dependent on Jones Act shipped petroleum for three-quarters of its electricity generation, Hawaii’s electricity prices are almost double the next most expensive state.

 

A 2012 report found that sending a container of household goods from the east coast to Puerto Rico cost more than double that to nearby Santo Domingo. A GAO study found that some Puerto Rico companies had shifted sourcing from America to Canada, due to cost savings from escaping Jones Act restrictions.

 

Alaska is restricted from shipping oil by tanker to the lower forty-eight states or to Hawaii, due to Jones Act restrictions. The costs are so extensive that the state’s governor is mandated to use “all appropriate means to persuade the United States Congress to repeal those provisions of the Jones Act.”

(International trade is restricted by the Jones Act as well, although not in the same way as domestic shipping.)

Thanks in part to trade restrictions such as these, the cost of living in Hawaii is notoriously high. For example, in nominal terms, Hawaii has a rather high median income at $59,000.  (The US median is $58,000.) But when adjusted for cost of living, the median income in Hawaii plummets to $50,900.  This disparity is the nation's largest, although, New Jersey comes in just slightly behind Hawaii in this measure:

 

We can't blame all of this on federal law, of course, as Hawaii is a long way from other major shipping ports, but the fact remains that the Jones Act severely limits what can be shipped from the US mainland, and by whom, while international trade further is controlled by a Congress where only four people out of 535 are from Hawaii.

Thus, economic freedom for Hawaii would allow Hawaiians greater power to control tariffs and trade in a manner that benefited Hawaii rather than special interests far away on the mainland. (Naturally, I prefer unilateral free trade in this regard.) This isn't to say that some Hawaiians never benefit from US trade restrictions. International trade restrictions on sugar are a famous example. But for every pro-Hawaii government regulation, there are countless others that benefit far away interests much more.

The US cannot be faulted for all of Hawaii's inability to take advantage of its geographical advantages. As just one example, we might note that a majority of Hawaiians have long refused to allow gambling on the islands, even though such a move could turn the islands, or a subregion of them, into a Monaco of the Pacific where wealthy Asians and Americans would leave behind thousands of dollars in gambling losses with every trip. 

The biggest obstacle to successful secession for the time being, however, is not ideological. As long as the federal money keeps coming in the form of social security checks, welfare checks, and military spending, its unlikely many will want to kill that golden goose. If those checks ever start bouncing, however, and if the feds start to scale back the fiat-money and taxpayer funded largesse, things will start to look very different.

 

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Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:38 | 6755884 E.F. Mutton
E.F. Mutton's picture

Racists.  Haters.  Cracker-o-phobes.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:44 | 6755903 Perimetr
Perimetr's picture

Any serious attempts at secession and you can expect chemical plants to start blowing up near where the opposition leaders live (if they are still alive).

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:52 | 6755931 pemdas
pemdas's picture

Hawaii, wake up. Don't do it. South Carolina already tried.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:29 | 6756068 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

A pleasant daydream.  Any actual attempt at secession would last less than a day.  The native population would face punishment up to and including genocide.

If Europe can be snuffed out, what do you think would happen to Hawaii?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:44 | 6756114 upWising
upWising's picture

www.yescalifornia.org

California succession

 

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:55 | 6756154 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Would Hawaii return to interisland bloodshed and wars?  Would it returned to a caste system like before?  Would it be ruled by kings?  Would the mafia move in and turn it into another Atlantic City?   ...  Stay tuned for another exiciting episode of "The Empire Strikes Out."

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:05 | 6756362 daveO
daveO's picture

The mafia, no doubt. Steve and Dano woun't stand a chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AepyGm9Me6w

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:10 | 6756389 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Many Tahitians feel the same way about the French government. Some feel tribalism lays just under the surface and powerful families would vie for supremacy.

So what else is new. Tribalism vs. Nationalism is just a question of size.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 03:06 | 6756914 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~"Tribalism vs. Nationalism is just a question of size."~

"The difference between anesthesia and euthanasia is simply a matter of degree." ~ Theosebes Goodfellow

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:58 | 6756579 Slomotrainwreck
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Wont be long before we are putting velcro stars on the flag.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 07:42 | 6757132 BlindMonkey
BlindMonkey's picture

"www.yescalifornia.org

California succession"

 

Fake website.  The tell?  It is in English.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 17:45 | 6759816 Macon Richardson
Macon Richardson's picture

Yeah, but the word "secession" is misspelled. Must be redneck okies.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 05:19 | 6756995 August
August's picture

I predict... people will be living on the moon by the year 2000.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:35 | 6756089 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Obongo the King POTUS negro was supposudely born in Hawaii.

I have a nice bridge in Manhattan i'd like to sell. Please contact me if you're interested.

 

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:43 | 6756112 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Coconut - Brown on the outside...

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:05 | 6756192 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

I would suggest native Hawaiians and others there start learning Chinese.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:54 | 6756562 divingengineer
divingengineer's picture

We give those ingrates Ice, and this is how the repay us?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:40 | 6755890 Nolde Huruska
Nolde Huruska's picture

Please take Puerto Rico with you when you go.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:51 | 6755928 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

And Texas. Please. Grant them their wish and shut them up.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:31 | 6756268 Okienomics
Okienomics's picture

Y'all ain't got nothin we'd want anyway.  God Bless Texas.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:40 | 6756290 Slave
Slave's picture

 

 

Thanks for outing yourself, some of us knew for years.

A) You want to stay with the US.

B) You didn't think of California first.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 01:11 | 6756456 KJWqonfo7
KJWqonfo7's picture

First I thought I would respond with something pithy like "fuck you". Then I thought that's a good idea. We would love to be on our own again and free of the left coast.

Now I'm just sad. Cause I realized the fence we would have to build to keep the Mexicans and the Kalifornians out would be too hard to maintain without help from our hard working latin brothers.

So. I'm back to fuck you.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 04:21 | 6756968 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Good one.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:36 | 6756503 techpriest
techpriest's picture

If Texas is so bad why are so many people (like myself) moving there? My folks left the Northeast for the South for a reason: cultural advancement and backwardness don't go in the direction you think they go.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:44 | 6755905 Hugh G. Rection
Hugh G. Rection's picture

Hawaii's not leaving the union. Scaremongering article. Jones act should be repealed, a jug of milk is $5.99 at Safeway. Avocadoes, $2.49 each (WTF they grow them here!) I live on a diet of brown rice and ketchup packets, it's all I can afford.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:56 | 6755946 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

How much for a Don Ho greatest hits cd? 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:14 | 6756406 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Priceless!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:25 | 6756458 venturen
venturen's picture

How much for the other Ho's?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:41 | 6756104 Cyberg
Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:41 | 6756105 Cyberg
Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:41 | 6756106 Cyberg
Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:12 | 6756205 ShakaZulu
ShakaZulu's picture

ketchup packets are free in How high we?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:09 | 6756382 daveO
daveO's picture

I once saw a bum get a cup of hot water and ketchup packets for free at McDonald's. 

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 00:31 | 6756664 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

Everybody local knows that only tourists and (former & future) mainlanders shop at Safeway.  And anybody that drinks Tropicana OJ at $9 a jug instead of POG at $3 deserves to be ripped off.  The Southpark episode about Butters finding his fake Hawaiian roots says it all.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 04:31 | 6756972 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Everybody that lives here knows that you have to shop EVERYWHERE.  Big Save won't have the turkey you like for sandwiches, so you have to go to Safeway.  Foodland has the good toilet paper.  Costco has whatever they have, which often changes.  Walmart will be out of whatever you are looking for, so at least you can count on that.  And certain items will disappear from every store for weeks/months at a time.  Supply and demand means nothing in Hawaii.

I'm talking about Kauai.  Oahu is better, but not by much.  

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 10:08 | 6757594 detached.amusement
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 I was there a few years ago and it gave me flackbacks of being in juneau as a kid and being astonished at seeing a box of ceral be 5 bucks....in 1988

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 04:24 | 6756970 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

You found a jug of milk for $5.99???  Must have been a quart, not a gallon jug.  I don't eat avocados, but they grow in my neighborhood.  I do grow my own bananas in my backyard.  I hope you are joking about your rice and ketchup diet.  

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:44 | 6755906 Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper's picture

Perhaps the upcoming Convention of States can help Hawaii in their quest.  One of my proposals for Constitutional amendments is to boot bankrupt welfare states such as California, New York and Illinois from the union and to dump other states (and territories) that are not part of the continental US.  We just need to convince 38 states to ratify and Hawaii is on its own.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:03 | 6755972 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Yeah please kick out the richest states in the Union. But before you do that you might want to look up "transfer union" and see if that changes your mind at all.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:59 | 6755913 tyberious
tyberious's picture

Its call the Kingdom of Hawaii! Annexation was illegal, Statehood was a farce, 70% voted against it and Billy boy apologized for it!

Far flung nations will succeed from the "Empire"!! There is no Union in Occupation! Real your sad history.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 20:58 | 6755955 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

They need to watch for the Chinese ships on the horizon.  What an astounding mistake Hawaiian sucession would be.  

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:00 | 6755961 WassamattaU
WassamattaU's picture

Yep.  In such a case, we should call Hawaii the East Spratly Islands.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:01 | 6755956 The Dogs of Moar
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I'll bet this has something to do with Obozo moving there after he's finally out of office.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:02 | 6755971 tyberious
tyberious's picture

There are thousands of islands that make up several countries in Oceania: Micronesia, Polynesian and Melanesia. China has not invaded as single one, and they are all doing fine without US bases!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:32 | 6756077 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

It's only a matter of time. Besides, the Chinese already control the economies of many of those islands.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:23 | 6756240 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

Check up on them and you will discover that majority or maybe even all are protectorates of US or one of the former colonial powers.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:05 | 6755980 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

As long as the USG has a Fortress in its Territories, you can forget about 'Freedom'.

It was the same with Rome.  Their frontiers and finances had to be too stretched, before the End came.  And that took much longer than Arena Christians hoped & prayed for.  Clearly their new 'Guy In The Sky' wasn't listening either.

We are not there yet, in spite of libertarian/Libertarian or Doomer prognostications and wet dreams.  There may be far more miles left on the tires than many here suspect or claim.  

Just being a realist, not a dreamer.  While it's great and healthy to have Dreams & Hopes, it is decidedly unhealthy to become their Addict.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:24 | 6756245 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Rome took a long time to fall, or at least for people to realise it had fallen, given the low speed travel of information.

Things have changed quite a bit in the speed at which information travels since Roman times.

I think that once a critical point is past, the fall will be faster than most are ready for.

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:11 | 6756395 daveO
daveO's picture

Electronics guarantee it.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:31 | 6756267 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

Being stretched far and wide is not what brings down an empire.
It's when you reached the point where there is nothing left you can pillage or the cost of it exceeds the bounty.
Even then everything will be fine unless the rot of corruption starts eating it from the inside.
Once the rule of just law is gone and there is nothing but corruption that is when the collapse begins.
We are there. Corzine, TARP and all the QE proves it.
Hell, Turbo Tax Timmy becoming the Treasury Secretaryalso is a good indicator as is the Louis Learner fiasco.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:08 | 6755987 hannah
hannah's picture

hawaii want reparations. with obama retiring to hawaii a massive amount of money is coming to hawaii. the last thing these people want is to lose the fed gov teet welfare.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:09 | 6755991 SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

Oh sure. Stick us with O-blame-o by mere months between statehood and the alleged Hawaiian birth, then quit. Thanks for nothing, ingrates.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:10 | 6755998 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Absolutely, The Hawaiians are pissed. If you know the history of how they were taken over you'd understand why.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:13 | 6756011 CHoward
CHoward's picture

OK fine - but that didn't just fucking happen like yesterday!!  Jeesh.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:25 | 6756051 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"yes, yes....we come in peace..."

i guess what u meant to say is "get over it aye...'

thanks CoWARD....

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:29 | 6756066 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

"Absolutely, The Hawaiians are pissed."

They are also pissed with a Federal judge overturning the will of Hawaiians to be GMO free on their islands:

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:57 | 6756161 Mr. Universe
Mr. Universe's picture

While diving in Kauai last year I noticed a sever die off of the coral reef. Kauai is pretty far North for coral but something is killing it.  Near the Waimea river is GMO testing fields for all the big boys experiments and it washes right out down the river. Turtles with tumors? So what, happens all the time now apparently. However the locals mostly need the work and view the protesting hippies as outsiders while the homelanders ask for a return of the Ahupua`a system. Again Monsanto & friends have way more money, lawyers and judges to ever lose any rulings.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:16 | 6756221 Money Boo Boo
Money Boo Boo's picture

Native Hawaiians have every right to be pissed off, their country was stolen from under them by a corporate take over, exactly like the USSA was with Reagan and nailed shut with the Bush Fascist Regime completing the task. Whatever you may think of Polynesian culture, at least they were once a sovereign people with their own problems to solve and were not just a giant fucking sugar plantation for American Oligarchs.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:26 | 6756243 Lurk Skywatcher
Lurk Skywatcher's picture

"Kauai is pretty far North for coral but something is killing it. Near the Waimea river is GMO testing fields for all the big boys experiments and it washes right out down the river. Turtles with tumors?"

Being due East and directly down current (ocean and jetstream) from Fukushima might have a lot more to do with what you are describing than GMO does... those reactors are still pumping shit directly into the pacific ocean.
Do you think anyone has been allowed to publish how much coral calcium has been displaced with strontium-90?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:28 | 6756257 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Scary thought.

What if you are both right.

 

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 00:40 | 6756690 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

Good theory, except that the ocean currents from Japan flow well north of Hawaii.  Almost none of the earthquake/tsunami debris ever arrived in the islands.  In fact, following the ocean current flow from Japan leads directly to the Canada/US west coast; and one guess as to where the higher radiation counts are?

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 04:44 | 6756978 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

No, it was a bacteria.  Coral is a living thing succeptible to all kinds of things.  I can tell you that I live on Kauai, and I care way more about dirty hippies walking around in my grocery store with their nasty hair and clothes and bare feet than I am concerned over the hysteria of GMO food.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:16 | 6756420 daveO
daveO's picture

A Haarvaad graduate(aren't they all?) and Clinton appointee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Oki_Mollway

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:54 | 6756151 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

People everywhere have been screwed over by more powerful countries....get over it...

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:01 | 6756178 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

So I suppose when it gets to the point that stormtroopers are breaking in your door to rape your wife and daughter then take anything that they fancy you'll just say ok and "get over it".

That's the retort of an unprincipled dipshit. Sound off like you've fucking got a pair.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 01:51 | 6756831 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Recognition and articulation of an unpleasant human tendancy is not the same as approval of the unpleasant human tendandy.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:03 | 6756185 darteaus
darteaus's picture

I didn't do it, so I should not have to pay.  Nonetheless, I will send a 1oz Kruggerand to every native Hawaiian alive today who lost anything of value.

BTW, that offer stands for every former victim of American slavery.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:51 | 6756309 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

They don't want your money. They just want their islands back and the US military and Monsatan off their land. Kinda like a lot of other places like: oh, I dunno, fucking OKINAWA and every other military stronghold turned shithole from the same. Okinawa's is a history that is truly Kafkaesque in the worst sense. They've been figuratively raped by the Japanese for the last 80 years and literally raped by the US since WWII.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 01:43 | 6756808 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Pretty sure that's not going to happen.

Rage on!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:53 | 6756328 Alvin Fernald
Alvin Fernald's picture

Present victims of American slavery too?
If slavery is when someone can take 100% of what you earn, at what % is it not slavery?

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 02:06 | 6756857 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Sure.  Have their owner post the deed to chattel on this site, and i'll contact them.

What you're describing is theft, not slavery.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:36 | 6756280 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

You mean it was different than the Apache,
Mohegan, Sioux, Patuxet, Cherokee etc ???

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:12 | 6756000 tyberious
tyberious's picture

  

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:12 | 6756007 CHoward
CHoward's picture

They won't secede - they can't afford to.  Right now they're just all riled up but will quiet down when they stop drinking that fermented coconut juice. 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:16 | 6756014 tyberious
tyberious's picture

You ignorant Zeroheadges, deserve your government and fellow country men!

The Fucking Irish got their sovereignty after 400 years. My fellow Hawaiians will receive theirs after only 125 years!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:37 | 6756074 darteaus
darteaus's picture

"My fellow Hawaiians will receive theirs after only 125 years"

BWA-HAHAHA.  Then what?  There is NO ECONOMY in Hawaii except working for tourist industry or the government -- and you believe it will be better when you fire the government.

So, just the tourist industry?  Have you ever seen what that pays?  Hint: minimum wage.

Great idea: Send everyone there into minimum wage servitude.  You must be a Socialist.

When you guys leave, don't forget to take your share of that $18T debt.

Sounds like Paradise:

"Ancient Hawaii was a caste-based society"

"During the 1780s and 1790s, chiefs often fought for power. After a series of battles that ended in 1795, all inhabited islands were subjugated under a single ruler"  [Hint: That means he killed his way to power and killed to stay in power]

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:38 | 6756284 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

>>>> You must be a Socialist <<<<

Have you seen how people in Hawaii vote??

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 01:16 | 6756764 darteaus
darteaus's picture

You're right - confirmed!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:39 | 6756102 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

Nine weeks active and hasn't figured out how to take off the sack -

Typical laid back whatever, dude.  Party on.

btw, it's countrymen and Fighting Irish, you ignorant slut.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:53 | 6756556 KJWqonfo7
KJWqonfo7's picture

There you are in paradise, spent the day collecting plentiful food and enjoying the breeze after a dip in the crystal blue water...  next thing you know, zwhite guy shows up and makes you his bitch.

Yeah, that shit is straight up stolen. 

If your going to be somebodys bitch however.. murica isn't bad.

Lets face it, Japans bitch?  Chinas bitch?  if you're going to be SOMEONEs bitch....  murica!!!!

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 01:34 | 6756800 darteaus
darteaus's picture

We all belong to somebody

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:17 | 6756018 darteaus
darteaus's picture

GREAT IDEA!!

Until you wake up one morning and find the Chinese creating some islands right next to you.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:21 | 6756019 Monetas
Monetas's picture

Just like Puerto Rico .... they voted down independence .... and they are 99+ % native .... and they have their own language and culture .... native Hawaians have only got their "bell hop" welfare culture .... hop, hop, hop ?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:17 | 6756020 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

Fucking haoles. They come here, eat our pineapples and mangoes, steal our nice beaches, eat the poki, and all we get are these filthy paper green dollars.

 

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:59 | 6756167 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Next time you get sick throw a virgin into a volcano instead of checking into a hospital.

Knock your tooth out with a rock instead of seeing a dentist.

And stop eating our SPAM!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:18 | 6756025 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Hawaii is only part of the US because it was taken over by corporations with help from the Military.

Some things don't change

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:52 | 6756140 darteaus
darteaus's picture

So? Not enough killing for you?   You prefer how China took over Tibet?  How Russia took over Ukraine?  How Japan took over Manchuria?  How Mugabe took over Zimbabwe?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:57 | 6756162 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Get back on your meds, for for fuck's sake.

Nothing you typed is in any way connected to my post.

Maybe you are just a failed attempt at an AI troll bot. That would explain things.

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:58 | 6756338 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Every human being has the natural right to self determination and self or local government. Invading armies are an offense to that natural right.

In other words: just because it happens doesn't mean it's right.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 02:15 | 6756794 darteaus
darteaus's picture

"Every human being has the natural right to self determination and self or local government."

I believe that natural right is violated almost everywhere and at almost all times.  Also, your statement has practical limits, no?  For example, every minority in a local concentration should be able to vote/declare itself independent?  For most [all?] modern nation states, that probably isn't a practical right to grant. 

 

"...just because it happens doesn't mean it's right."

Not in dispute.


My point is that the takeover of Hawaii happened a long time ago, and now reality is what it is, i.e. Hawaii is part of the US.  Crying about a crime of the 19th century does not constitute an automatic grant of carte blanche to an extremely small minority to determine the government of a large majority of that state.

Are all actions of 19th century international relations going to be evaluated and possibly reversed by 21st century standards?  How about the 18th century?  The Norman invasion of 1066?

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 05:00 | 6756985 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Sgt,

You need to read Hawaii history.  They didn't have self determination or local government.  But they do now.  And we didn't invade them.  The British colonized and modernized Hawaii long before the US overthrew the monarchy (have you ever seen the Hawaii state flag?).  And that was not a bloody or violent overthrow, by the way.

The people here are a million times better off than they were before.  They were slaves under a royal Kapu system.  They were not free.  Now they do have those rights that you mentioned....self determination and self government.  

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:48 | 6756125 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Statute of Limitations has expired on that pal.

Take that complaint to the Bureau of Perpetual Greivances and Racial Hatemongering.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:23 | 6756041 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

secession, not,

you think Charles Schwab is gonna let some pidgeon speaking locals take over his private golf course....? or Balmer, Dell, they all own mega properties...

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:25 | 6756050 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Please.  I have lived in Hawaii for years.  Trust me when I tell you that 99.9% of the people here have nothing to do with the secession movement.  There is no movement.  People in Hawaii (which includes far more than native Hawaiians) love all the things other Americans love....eating, shopping, big trucks, etc.  They would be insane to want to return to the days of being killed for stepping in the shadow of a royal.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:57 | 6756573 Monetas
Monetas's picture

Secession in the Public Interest .... two half breeds and fax machine .... don't worry .... ZH is all over this ?

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:27 | 6756060 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

They just want to get rid of all the kooks snaking their waves at pipeline.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:49 | 6756130 zorbathefreak
zorbathefreak's picture

No doubt, brah.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:53 | 6756144 darteaus
darteaus's picture

An honorable goal

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:28 | 6756061 cigarEngineer
cigarEngineer's picture

US talks about Crimean annexation while it staged a coup and continues its military occupation of Hawa'ii for over 100 years. Not to mention Puerto Rico...

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:30 | 6756071 besnook
besnook's picture

listen, hawaii is dystopia. homeless everywhere, meth head burglars, 47 cent/kwh electricity and haole racism. it is hell to live here. stay away! the hawaiians are taking over! it will only get worse!

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 21:39 | 6756098 Mr. Universe
Mr. Universe's picture

Hawaii has the same history as the human race, mayhem and violence. The first little dudes got there, most likely from the Marquesis. They prospered until the polynesians showed up and kicked their ass. Then they fought between themselves all the time with wars killing thousands. The Kapu system showed how the elite really work. We are royalty you are not. We own the best fishing grounds and you work to produce for us. Walk in my shadow and if you don't make it to a city of refuge before my men kill you, too bad. Yeah Hawaii culture is so freaking awesome. As always, follow the Benjamins.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:00 | 6756174 logicalman
logicalman's picture

ALWAYS follow the Benjamins.

If there are 2 options for something, the one that makes money will happen, whether or not the other is more important for people.

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:00 | 6756176 Jacksons Ghost
Jacksons Ghost's picture

All the islands are on the Dole or sucking the MIC tit.  Please, we should be so lucky if they left.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:01 | 6756177 tyberious
tyberious's picture

I've lived on the Ewa Beach and DT Honolulu and I call bullshit! Sure 99% of US citizens living on Hawaii are not concerned with our traditions, history or culture, but should that surprise anyone? Most people from the states have adopted everything this government has told you and is this working well? This is about sovereign rights, international law, self determination and reclaiming what is ours.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 05:11 | 6756989 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Bullshit.  Hawaii was never free or sovereign or self determining.  It was ruled by a monarchy, or fighting monarchies.  They would throw you off the side of a mountain if you made eye contact with a royal.  

You think that's better than the Hawaii of today?  I've lived here for years, and I've never heard one person complain.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:27 | 6756253 ShakaZulu
Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:27 | 6756256 CalibratedConfidence
CalibratedConfidence's picture

Hawaii comes in second for efficientcy with Murders

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:32 | 6756271 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I guess there are a lot of guns in Illinois and Louisiana!

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:07 | 6756368 Alvin Fernald
Alvin Fernald's picture

Anywhere the US military sets up shop ends up a pile of shit.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 00:59 | 6756733 Abbie Normal
Abbie Normal's picture

Because the handgun laws are the strictest in the nation.  If you're going to go to the trouble of getting a gun, then you really mean to use it.

Kind of unlucky for the local a couple of years ago that was taunting the haole in Waikiki.  Didn't know that mainlander was working for the diplomatic service and had a concealed carry permit.  But then the mainlander probably shouldn't have followed the local to the nearest McDonalds, escalated the argument and then shot him to death.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 05:15 | 6756992 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Oh yeah, he got arrested.  There's no such thing as concealed carry permits in Hawaii.  Not even for out of state cops.  Or so-called diplomatic service people.  It was never clear what that guy was doing in Waikiki.

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:40 | 6756288 homiegot
homiegot's picture

Texas + Hawaii. 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 22:41 | 6756297 yomutti
yomutti's picture

Oh, fuck those fat primitives. Hawaii's not going anywhere.

 

Thu, 11/05/2015 - 23:45 | 6756540 Jack's Raging B...
Jack&#039;s Raging Bile Duct's picture

If you can't request that your "ally" go home without them threatening to kill and conquer you...they might not be your ally. Either seceed or accept being a vassal. There is no compromise with The Beast.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 00:03 | 6756584 Monetas
Monetas's picture

If Hawai goes .... can we extradick (extradite) Obama .... for treason ?

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 00:02 | 6756591 Monetas
Monetas's picture

Put all the natives on the leper island .... clean the place up ?

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 00:16 | 6756629 onmail1
onmail1's picture

All states in Satan America should try to secede considering that demoncracy rules America where MPs take money for election fund, actually bribe. They dont work for people anymore , they rather work for those corporations, banksters & cabals.

Democracy is a sham in America

The only way people can be free is to secede.

Secede , leave Satan America & be saved from burning hell.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 01:12 | 6756759 mijev
mijev's picture

According to wikipedia, Hawaii has a population of 1.4M and tourism brings in $14B each year. That's not enough to live on at the current price of rents and food but it's not peanuts either. Plus they have other income from agriculture and a few other industries. If they did secede, a lot of rich americans might decide to go live there or set up base there because it's now got good infrastructure and everyone speaks english. The good thing about toursim is that it's nt easy to replace workers with robots.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 05:13 | 6756990 william114085
william114085's picture

"Hawaiians"?  You're as likely to see a Hawaiian as you are to see a Native Indian.  The islands are overrun with Filipinos masquerading as Hawaiians.  It's easy to recognize them by their Pidgin English and sub-par IQ.  They're also half the size of a real Hawaiian. 

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 05:54 | 6757029 Gold_Spot
Gold_Spot's picture

Russia should openly declare that their movement is right as far as the UN Charter is concerned and willing to supply weapons to seccessionist party.

Wow, I'l love to see that, giving those shits in DC some of their own medicine

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 06:50 | 6757077 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

You know I am all for the lower 48 doing what they want, but Hawaii, out there all by itself?  They'd just be asking to be taken over by some abitious  dictator.

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 07:01 | 6757095 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

Good luck getting the Navy and Air Force out. I suppose as a condition of your succession you could lease them the land for a dollar a year. Fewer and fewer continentals are vacationing in Hawaii every year, the last year saw a sharp rise because air fare was so cheap, but how long can that continue? I always said:" Last ones in will be the first ones out" and I still stand by that assertion. What does Hawaii and Alaska need the US for {besides defense} anyway?

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 08:30 | 6757204 pauhana
pauhana's picture

Hawaii cannot survive on its own.  It has lived off the government teat for too long.  On the Big Island, more than 50% of the jobs are government jobs and there aren't too many of them.  Most people make their money suing other people or living off disability.  Opening a business is discouraged by mountains of regulation and BUREAUCRATIC incompetence.  The schools are awful.  It is a one party state designed to support as little productivity as possible.  It is a microcosim that allows one to see the end result of socialism.  Welcome to the future.  

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 09:03 | 6757265 praxis
praxis's picture

Who was the Chinese spy Margarite chased on Hawaii 5-0 back in the day? 

Bet if they free'd the weed in Hawaii they'd make some serious bank exporting THAT around the world. 

Fri, 11/06/2015 - 12:51 | 6758298 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

Good luck getting the Navy and Air Force out. I suppose as a condition of your succession you could lease them the land for a dollar a year. Fewer and fewer continentals are vacationing in Hawaii every year, the last year saw a sharp rise because air fare was so cheap, but how long can that continue? I always said:" Last ones in will be the first ones out" and I still stand by that assertion. What does Hawaii and Alaska need the US for {besides defense} anyway?

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