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"$19,000 Premiums, Up 4x Since Passage": The 'Crippling Effect' Of Obamacare On The Middle Class

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The past month has seen a veritable litany of reports that have slammed Obamacare, from sources on both the left and the right. Some examples:

As we have warned over the years, all of this was expected, and is precisely what happens when the government tries to take over a critical industry. It may have had "good intentions" but the result has been a total failure.

And nowhere is it seen better than from the laments of those whom it was supposed to benefit, such as Ed Elliott, who has laid out precisely what the "Affordable Care Act" means for the US: "This is crippling effect of ACA on small biz owners & middle class. $19000/yr premiums up 4x since passage."

Still curious why the US middle class is expiring (even as the 1% are thriving), and has no discretionary income left at all? Simple: all of said "discretionary income" was spent to cover a soaring tax which was supposed to make life better for everyone.

h/t @noalpha_allbeta

 

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Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:47 | 6762188 max2205
max2205's picture

We ACA'D some folks

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:00 | 6762223 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

it is honestly sickening.. Europe healthcare is free.. yeah might wait a bit. but its free.. that 19k is money not going into the economy,, just going into a blackhole that are healthcare insurance companies.. the underwriters plan is designed to retain premium and bonuses are paid to those who pay the least amount of premium out.. It is a pile of shyt. 5000$ premiums basically means you pay for all expenses out of pocket unless you are terribly ill or run over by a bus. 

from 2014- 

Insurance Companies To Strenuously Fight Republican Efforts To Overturn Obamacare

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:01 | 6762234 toady
toady's picture

The plan is working. Pretty soon they'll be begging for single payer. 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:04 | 6762241 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

more slushies 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:19 | 6762279 Stackers
Stackers's picture

That 1% fine ... sorry, "tax" for no coverage looks better and better every day

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:51 | 6762350 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Let see if Boris is understand Medical portion of convoluted Amerikansky Dream, you are to take best health care system in world (circa 2008) and create unsustainable financial arrangement between federal government, medical provider, and insurer (in case you are wonder, Boris is leave out "patient" because obvious is no one care about patient), and then Supreme Court of USA (SCOITUS) is write new law to enable further collapse, and now ultimate status is that private citizen is better just pay tax-fine-tax-no-fine-oh-whatever and opt out?

... Boris is confuse!

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:53 | 6762355 negative rates
negative rates's picture

They had to pass it so YOU could find out whaaaat's in it. snicker snicker.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:59 | 6762371 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

One time Boris is eating large meal with family of cousin (not same cousin who is father of fat nephew on couch if you are wonder) and is feel something is not chew, but is go down throat. Is taste nasty, but is hurting something awful! So Boris is go to neighbor who is possess x-ray machine and is get x-Ray. Is look like strange device, but is not sure.

Okay, now is time to go to doctor. Maybe is extract with some scope device or induce vomit. But, no, is charge Boris 150 Ruble and tell Boris in few day it will appear in toilet, basically, "You must pass it to find out what is in it."

This is seem same for Obamacare, is just one long painful bowel movement with result of crap at end.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:09 | 6762527 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Da!!!

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 10:00 | 6763788 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

From personal experience I can tell you tha the $19K health plan doesn't pay for anything until you are out of pocket $5K for each member of the family. It then only pays 70% of the remainder up to infinity.  A friend had a heart attack and now owes $90K.  And while all of this is going on you will receive cubic meters of bills and round the clock bill collectors calling. That's a Cadillac health plan.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 13:09 | 6764268 rccalhoun
rccalhoun's picture

my brother with 3 dependents  (4 total insured) was quoted $1900 for gold plan in california (on the healthcare.gov website) which equals 22,800 per year plus the small co-pays.

that is up from the 1100 he paid to a union as an employer for his personal family coverage,  because he no longer employees people, he's on the open exchange.

 

another friend in nevada was quoted $600/month for bronze they never even used (up from 350).  this person makes 35,000K ... what the fuck does she do?   go without issurance and file a phony exemption on her income tax was my advice.

but the minorities all get  medicaid or get on a relatives medicaid or use each others ID ....they never pay.  or they go to an indian reservation...a free clinic for the needy, etc.....all the while holding down jobs and paying zero for medical care.  there is a whole network of handouts,if you belong to a racial minority of any color.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:15 | 6762273 zaphod
zaphod's picture

No, everyone is switching to short term non aca plans. Mine costs $280/no for a family of 5 in San Francisco area. Sureit only pays out if there is a real problem, but we are healthy and just need catastrophic coverage, not these full plans.

 

Look them up they are a deal

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:37 | 6762315 hotrod
hotrod's picture

zap,  I thought the plans had to include similar coverage like ACA for Silver Gold Platinum.  If they did not then werre deemed unacceptable and the Penalty would apply.  I used to carry something like you mentioned. It was a Catastrophic Care plan that covered just the big events. That is no longer acceptable according to ACA

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:56 | 6762365 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Mr. Beeblebrox, if you are average citizen, then it is obviuos what is happen, Amerika is essentially no insurance and same people (fat, lazy, fat, unhealthy, diabetic, fat, lazy, etc.) who is not afford health insurance before (circa 2008) is enroll in unsustainable health plan that is subsidize by tax penalty, or ever-increase debt ceiling and ultimate collapse...?

So, what are you call this? Ploward-Cliven?

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 23:37 | 6762978 Rancho Texican
Rancho Texican's picture

My Catastrophic Care plan was discontinued because it didn't cover vaginas.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 15:32 | 6763200 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Maybe you are next time purchase health insurance in lingerie department!

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 23:37 | 6762979 Rancho Texican
Rancho Texican's picture

My Catastrophic Care plan was discontinued because it didn't cover vaginas.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 01:35 | 6763196 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

You are say that again!

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:18 | 6762400 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

But that "280" is still getting a subsidy aka a form of welfare to pay the insurance premium. Then if you use it, you'll pay and pay and pay until actual insurance kicks in.

 

 

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 04:08 | 6763389 Killdo
Killdo's picture

manwhile in Australia everyone is covered with health insurance (I am told by my Australian friends - I am ony visiting) and their tax free allowance is 18200 AUD. (about twice as much as in teh USA)  So they seem to pay less tax and get more benefits

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 09:25 | 6763681 Amicus Curiae
Amicus Curiae's picture

you work you pay a tiny percent on wage to medicare

if you also take private cover you get concessions as youre easing the public health system

and if you arent working you still get decent public care(beats the hell outta ussa from what I hear) emergency etc immedate care

dental and non life threatening you do get into a waiting list ie  some surgery hip replacments etc

script meds are watchdogged for ripoffs

the poor get a flat rate subsidised rate, so they dont get sicker! and end up costing society more in the long run

however..YOUR crappy  private med cos are moving in like sharks to screw us over.

and the TPP is another nail in the coffin if it gets past our senate

a LOT of us are lobbying to ensure the pollies do NOT pass it.

 

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 11:17 | 6763970 sb36695
sb36695's picture

I joined a "legal" sharing ministry.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:31 | 6762572 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Funny thing is that Republicans will be the ones that will be in power when it is approved.

Single Payer was a non starter in the Oblama years, and now the Trumpster will achieve Single Payer as a Republican President.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 23:06 | 6762923 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

Doesn't matter who the next Criminal-in-Chief turns out to be, taxpayers cannot afford to keep the current system going. Democrat or Republican, el nouveau presidente does not have the money to keep the scam going.

I wouldn't wish a Clinton presidency on Iran (they would never tolerate her lying anyway), but it would be funny if she were forced to cancel centrally planned health care just like a real banana republic.

Trump will order the IRS to disregard all Obamacare nonsense and halt all enforcement efforts. He'll put on a big show of standing up to Washington criminality, and Congress (having exempted themselves already) won't have a leg to stand on.

But whomever will cancel Obamacare because Uncle Sam has no choice. Beggars might say they chose not to buy a Mercedes to save face, but truth is they can't afford it.

Europe is essentially bankrupt, with the UK and Norway no longer having oil royalties to bankroll their government health systems (Norway just starting to have problems, UK's NHS is already bankrupt). And Europe's health care costs a lot less than the USA's.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:19 | 6763074 roddy6667
roddy6667's picture

Single payer is cheaper and more effective. Why would anybody want the health insurance that benefits only the insurance companies?

You always hear about the "wait", as if this is fatal or a reason to reject single payer. No wait means the insurance gets its money faster, with no attendant in health benefits for the citizens. In America, a lot of the procedure you get without a wait cause more deaths than waiting forever.

Even if you have an ObamaCare card in your wallet, a huge deductible and 20% co-pay means you lose your house and your life savings when you get sick or injured. How is this different from no insurance?

 

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 01:54 | 6763232 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Single payer is cheaper?  When was a monopoly EVER cheaper for consumers?  And the whole argument is based on pooled risk and forced participation.  Which isn't Constitutional (regardless of what those 9 fucktards opine).  As the prices go higher, more Americans will be willing to 'knuckle up'.  When that occurs, we'll all be playing the game in a very different dimension of risk/reward.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 10:57 | 6763919 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture

Excuse me... 5 Fucktards lead by the Chief Fucktard ... the baby raping fag Roberts.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 10:59 | 6763927 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Government Need

Europeans pay less for comparable or better health care costs than in the USA.

(Arguably, so do Cubans.)

Public monopolies make sense over banking, roads, electricity, water, etc.

Economies of scale advantages do exist. There are other reasons as well.

The bloated sickcare industry is now one area needing such.

Democratic or democratic representative government is a better alternative

in such areas of general interest than an

expectation that the singular materialistic goal of profit-driven corporations 

 can determine best for society, humanity, and the ecology/environment. 

Faith in profits over people is a sad reflection of our sick society.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 11:22 | 6763982 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Give me an example of what you believe Europeans pay less for, and I'll take the time to show you (to the limit of public info) how that argument is false.  Whenever .gov gets involved, needless inefficiency is created.  These days, there is also a fat layer of graft on top of the needless inefficiency.

Mon, 11/16/2015 - 17:32 | 6801612 goodtimesKC
goodtimesKC's picture

https://www.oecd.org/health/health-systems/Focus-Health-Spending-2015.pdf

Figure 2.  Healthcare as a % of GDP.  If the US system is so much more efficient than the European, why are our costs so much higher as % of GDP?

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 06:56 | 6763491 Lockesmith
Lockesmith's picture

If single payer is so great, why not give people the choice whether to pay for it or not?

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 10:26 | 6763858 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Toady

OBAMAcare was written by the insurance and pharma industries.

It was NOT "their" plan to have single-payer.

The general public should have been "begging" for less costly single payer all along.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:04 | 6762239 viator
viator's picture

Nothing is free. European medical care, including European death panels, is paid for by taxes. And that is why, among other things, that Europe is slowly circling the drain hole.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:05 | 6762246 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

yes. you are correct. but they also produce less. turned into club med

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:29 | 6762430 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Europe's health care cost less

because a significant portion does NOT

have to subsidize bloated insurance and pharma industries.

Somewhat healthier lifestyles, foods, environment, and also less medical

costs as result of avoiding an excessively punitive US-style  'war on drugs'. . . all helps.

Avoiding medical costs for veterans from excessive overseas militarism helps.

 

Word games about the word "free" prove nothing.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 01:58 | 6763238 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Without the FDA's cock-blocking of new drugs and technologies, US consumers would NOT pay a premium price to elsewhere.  And drugs/technology is 2nd behind staff expense in terms of overall magnitude of healthcare facility expenses.  The wage scale is equally bloated.  That's not going to make nurses happy, when they have to compete with folks from Thailand and the Philippines.  Also, Europe has few niggers and wetbacks who stats show are less healthy and live shorter lives. Cuz 'scrimination, of course.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:08 | 6762525 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Haha
Death panels.. You guys really believe that...
Americans are so dumb

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:29 | 6762569 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

I've watched people die slowly in the USA and in Canada and I'll take Canada for 100 Alex.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 22:50 | 6762900 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

Unless Canada can sell more and more oil to the suckers on their southern border, your days of dying slowly on tax-payer funded Canadian care are limited.

And to give you an idea of the intelligence level you are selling to (depending on to fund your health care system) -- six days after TransCanada officially canceled the XL pipeline, Obama rejected it.

We the no-longer free also subsidize all your drug development costs. Wait till we go bankrupt and you get the bill for that!!!

You had better build a new pipeline to paying customers in Asia, or you better cancel Canada's health system. Your choice.

Mon, 11/09/2015 - 02:10 | 6766407 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

Wow, at least three Canadians don't want to admit how dependent their country is on selling oil and natgas to fund their not-really-free health system.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, apparently it runs through Quebec as well...

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 22:31 | 6762865 ATM
ATM's picture

Would that be the panel the UK that denied my aunt an operation whoch she would have had performed in the US in a week, back in the mid 2000's?

She of course is dead now. 

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:22 | 6763086 roddy6667
roddy6667's picture

The illiterate like to throw the term "death panels" around and scare other illiterate people. Nobody has insurance that pays for experimental and unproven drugs and procedures. Nobody.. It has always been that way.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 23:47 | 6763001 aeslong
aeslong's picture

you, as an american, don't pay tax?

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:07 | 6762251 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

"Europe healthcare is free"..are you really that stupid?

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:14 | 6762269 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

perhaps

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:14 | 6762272 hannah
hannah's picture

what is even more ridiculous is that the usa funds the shitty healthcare plans of europe. if 75% of the qe is going to european banks and they are qe'ing money/credit that keeps the european gov 'solvent' then the usa is funding their welfare/med plans.

 

when the liquidity stops, watch europe literally melt down.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:29 | 6762294 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Presumably you are referring to the same "Shitty Healthcare" that delivers far, FAR better outcomes than your costly, profit-led, and therefore INEFFICIENT sysem??

American "Healthcare" is quite the misnomer. a "Healthcare" model that is designed to financially exploit, and where "keeping them alive no matter whether the quality of life is abysmal" seems the accepted model.

Working closely with colleagues in Palliative / Hospice Care, you better believe me when I tell you QUALITY of life is far, FAR more important to our dying Patients than any residual "Quantity".

Just another example where Europe and almost everywhere else is miles ahead of your "system". Even relatively backward Australia has recognised that Quality is more important than Quantity, and it's not a "cost issue", since end-of-life management can be quite costly in terms of nursing and clinical commitment.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:20 | 6762552 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

5-7% of the US population consumes half of the healthcare reseources. The distribution within that group probably isn't uniform, so 2% of the population may be consuming 25% of the healthcare. Can we incentivize them to STOP doing that? How about putting a cap on what the public will spend to keep any given person alive, say a million dollars? It's worth it to me and the dozen other taxpayers who will spend ALL of their tax contributions to keep one cheeto eating TV watcher alive, of course, but if we could do that for less I would be thrilled.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:01 | 6762617 Tejano
Tejano's picture

No, we cannot do that. The medical-pharmaceutical-insurance complex is too deeply entrenched, controls too much of the apparatus of the State. This monster is not driven by compassion, not by reason, or any human impulse. It exists solely to extract wealth and power from those poor souls (like you and me) that happen to live (as best we can) within its reach.

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:55 | 6762628 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

You sir, hit the nail on the head.   And that is why they needed more "premium payers", so they forced everyone to get health insurance whether they wanted it or not. 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:40 | 6762734 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

not replacing knees on fat asses who never worked a day in their lives? no new hips for 90 year olds?

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:25 | 6762287 Tallest Skil
Tallest Skil's picture

You're a complete idiot if you think Europe has free healthcare. Europe's healthcare is paid for by the US.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 02:06 | 6763249 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

This is a false.  The US DOES NOT pay the wages of the European healthcare professional.  The US DOES NOT pay the price for the drugs and technology.  The ONLY accurate aspect of your argument is drug and device pricing, which is a fraction of the 2nd largest healthcare expense pie, following healthcare provider salaries, wages, and benefits.  The socialized healthcare systems have a lovely taxation system which spreads the wealth around to the healthcare consumers.  THAT is how European heathcare gets paid for.

 

US drug/device prices are higher for 2 reasons: (1) Americans can pay, and as a producer of a product, you want to charge the max a consumer will pay for something; and (2) Americans are still largely a captive market (altho medical tourism, where US citizens go OUS to receive treatment, grows >20% annually).  Finally, the FDA is a cockblock to equalizing prices for drugs and devices.  There should be informed consent whereby any American can choose any treatment.  If that happened, prices would decline dramatically.  Once again, .gov is in the way, propping up 'Big Pharma' profit margins.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:02 | 6762373 Solarman
Solarman's picture

Different crippling taxes.  

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:16 | 6762399 defender1be
defender1be's picture

Its not free, but it is much cheaper. For example, i live in belgium. A docter visit wil cost about 25€ and the state health system pays about 20€ back.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:25 | 6762416 plane jain
plane jain's picture

No middle man to pay, IOW no private insurers looking to profit.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:45 | 6762596 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Where does the 20 euro come from.  I want some of that free euro.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:09 | 6763052 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Of course it comes from taxes. The thing is it's not a profit driven system.

You're entiteled to take out private health care if you wish (unlike Amerika where you're forced to do so) but there is no obligation.

In Australia we pay roughly 1.5% of income to medicare - this covers everything. Period. If you want to get into hotel hospitals and straight in the next day you can go private at a few hundred a month. The fees the US pays are absolutely astounding to anyone on the planet (most with better health care) outside of the US.

Mon, 11/09/2015 - 00:41 | 6766235 skipjack
skipjack's picture

Sure it's a profit driven system. Every administrator in your single payer system seeks to maximize their own gain. All single payer systems are constantly battling major fraud and graft issues.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:29 | 6762429 booboo
booboo's picture

"it is honestly sickening.. Europe healthcare is free"

Um, no, it's not "free" 

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:40 | 6762463 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

I'm definitely moving to Europe!!!  You guys have the most altruistic and charitable nurses, doctors and entire hospitals that do shit for free!!  All of them doctors must not get paid by anyone, they have all won the lottery and spend it willy nilly on their nurses paying for the hospital bills, the drugs the lights, shit you got it good. 

In other news NOTHING IS FUCKING FREE!  The taxpayers get to pay for all the self inflicted alcoholism, diabetes, obese fuckers who overeat, smokers, drug users, and all around slovenly assholes who refuse to look after themselves.  And if you get sick which happens to most of us, why should you not pay for it out of pocket.  You pay for your fucking cars, trucks, vacations, booze, pot, smokes, igadgets, clothes and the food you eat.  Healthcare is a service, so pay up.  You can't eat for free, so pay up.  Stupid fucking comment.

And no I am no fan of Obamacare, then don't pay it.  Save your money and attend to hospitals and physicians that will take cash from you.  I guarantee you it will turn out to be much cheaper.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:04 | 6762647 krage_man
krage_man's picture

One of the reasons I emigrated to Europe is healthcare. Yes, taxes are higher, doctors are not so fancy like is in US, but it is free, at all free, no coopay, all drugs are low fix price, ALL DRUGS! And drugs are free for kids, pregnant, elders!

And doctors smile and treat you as a human patient, not as ensurance holder they can get as many tests as would be covered..

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:51 | 6762489 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

HedgeAccordingly - "Europe healthcare is free.."

 

You can't really be that ignorant, right? You were speaking sarcastically. There is nothing free in this world. Something or someone has to pay. Europe has free healthcare? Come on Hedge. The wheels are coming off the European economy and have been since long before this American manufactured refugee crisis. The new American model for healthcare which is basically fascism doesn't work and neither does the European model which is socialism. Take third parties out the mix and restore the relationship between the patient and the physician. That's the fix. I spent 25 years in the healthcare industry and costs went up in proportion to government involvement and exploitation by insurance companies with their convoluted "products" like HMO's, PPO's, capitation and "managed care". More like mangled care. It's only a matter of time before dems and repubs push single payer in this country and then everyone is doomed. I want government telling my physician how to treat me as much as I do Jeffrey Dahmer telling me what I should eat.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:21 | 6762680 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

@HedgeAccordingly:

I don't want to sugar coat this for idiots like yourself.

NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE. Got that dumb ass? NOTHING IS FREE

Doctors in Europe do not work for free. Taxes pay them. Band-aids are not free, taxes pay for those too. x-ray machines, blood pressure monitors... all the goodies are paid for by taxes.

In many European countries (and Canada), oil royalties pay a huge part of those taxes. Taxpayers (rich, middle class and poor) pay the rest.

Stop committing fraud you stupid loser. You are not getting health care for free.

As for victims in the USA, lets remember that European trains generally run on time (outside of England). In the USA, Amtrak just presented its 40th "Five Year Plan" to stop constant losses and become self-sufficient.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 23:31 | 6762966 Rancho Texican
Rancho Texican's picture

Nothing is free.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:08 | 6763049 Jack's Raging B...
Jack's Raging Bile Duct's picture

Right. As in, 40-60% of your pay cheque free, whether you utilize any of those "services" or not. This is not a defense of the Fascist medical system in the USA. It's merely a reminder, that no, Europe's healthcare is not free, let alone a bargain.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:12 | 6763056 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"Europe healthcare is free.."

Really?  So, the doctors, nurses and all other health care employees donate their time?  That could explain the wait, I guess.

Is it really free?  Or, is it a single-payer system with closely controlled cost structures?  I wonder if maybe it is paid for through a tax on the good citizens of the European nations?

I guess that using the same metric, all of our interstate highways here are "free", the defense department operates "free", and those on foodtsamps are getting their benefit for "free" too.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 10:29 | 6763862 Dark Space
Dark Space's picture

"Europe healthcare is free"- no, you pay for it through taxes. You are still paying for it. Europe has many countries, and not all utilitze socialized healthcare schemes either.

"5000$ premiums basically means you pay for all expenses out of pocket unless you are terribly ill or run over by a bus" - this is literally how insurance is supposed to work. Throughout history, and in every other case of insurance except healthcare, the insurance only kicks in when there has been an unexpected loss. HSA plans in healthcare work this way, but they've been weakened under ACA - I prefer an HSA plan because our family is healthy and the premiums are roughly half the amount of full coverage. We pay for maintenance items and small repairs out of pocket.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:36 | 6762316 Bossman1967
Bossman1967's picture

I am an ins agent this whole thing has been a scam from the start my tax bill has been reduced to zero. They have destroyed the whole thing. I cant even get insurance through the exchanges . Uninsured brefore and now. Whats the difference. I just found out I was denied. Fuck them and I wish this country would wake the hell up allready. Been waiting for this for 6 yeRs here we are

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 07:57 | 6763553 scintillator9
scintillator9's picture

Fun article to reflect on from January 31, 2013.

They were only off by $1,000.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-...

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:47 | 6762189 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

A poverty trap that will catch everybody in the middle class,just as planned.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:08 | 6762256 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

You really need your head examined if you think $19k per year is remotely 'affordable'. WTF. That just torpedoes any hope for anyone middle class. Don't enroll, adjust your withholding so you never get a refund and tell them to fuck off with their 1% income penalty (on a tax).

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:10 | 6762262 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

KY lube sales are gonna soar !

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:16 | 6762277 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I promise is only an endoscope(for a whale).

Not going to hurt (me) at all.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:34 | 6762306 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Doctor Allenby: This won't hurt a bit.
[Sticks Chance with a needle]
Chance the Gardener: It did hurt.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:30 | 6762299 Blano
Blano's picture

Just check the box on the tax return.  Make them catch it and come after your for the tax.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:45 | 6762335 dot_bust
dot_bust's picture

Personally, I'd rather pay the fine. I can't afford health insurance, and I definitely can't afford Obamacare.

If the fine gets too big, I guess I'll have to leave the country. There's no way I'll stick around for a shakedown.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:23 | 6762409 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Why not get Medicaid?

Worst thing for this system is for people to get on Medicaid and then actually use it to cover well visits and treat conditions.

 

If you can't comfortablly pay for medical care, get on it and get healthy. Give yourself a fighting chance, you only have one body.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:27 | 6762423 plane jain
plane jain's picture

Maybe because in many states there is a gap in income between poor enough to get Medicaid and makes enough to get subsidized coverage on the exchange.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:18 | 6762544 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

My friend in Texas said fewer then 12% of orthopedic doctors now accept Medicaid since they cannot afford to get paid 5 cents on the dollar. Obamacare is turning into a nightmare in the same way but worse because it FORCES people to pay for insurance but you do not get the coverage since fewer and fewer doctors accept it.

 

Obamacare is one of the most disastrous "Legacies" of Barry, Pelosi, and Reed. We are going to pay the penalty next year and forego paying for non-coverage Obamacare. Stay healthy and if you are unfortunate enough to need it for cancer, similar, then sign up for it then.

 

My dad Loki may look at one of those Christian insurance coverage things since everyone raves about them.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:15 | 6762670 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

12% seems very high to me.

In the north east (New England states), very few doctors of any specialty will accept new patients "covered" by medicare/medicaid. Almost none.

The few doctors that do get overwhelmed with newcomers, find out Uncle Sam is a dead beat, try to over-charge paying customers (who then leave). The medical practice quickly turns into a public housing project.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 02:17 | 6763265 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The thing to do will be to suffer with grace or go out when it is your time like our Parents and Grand-Parents and Great-Grandparents did. 

You go broke getting a strep culture or having them poison you for a couple years until you die of cancer.

Morphine and aspirin are cheap, enriching the healthcare demons will wipe out 3 generations of assets, as it was designed to do. 

Time to fight and live or die with dignity America.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:10 | 6762658 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

Don't look now, but the folks in Washington just admitted that Social Security and Medicare cannot meet their promises.

Its not news that they cannot meet their promises, but it is news that they are finally admitting so.

Medicaid "coverage" is the same as having no coverage, except for all the forms you have to fill out on medicaid. Just try to find a doctor who will accept new patients on Medicare/medicaid.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:48 | 6762191 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

RE

As we have warned over the years, all of this was expected, and is precisely what happens when the government tries to take over a critical industry

The govt doesn't control the industry.  The health insurers, big pharma, and big hospitals do.  The govt is just paid by them to enforce their monopolies and their "profits".

bullish suicide...its cheaper than the ACA

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:09 | 6762257 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Middle-aged Whites are checking out of the asylum; is it any wonder?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rate-middle-age-white-americans/index.html

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:48 | 6762192 4shzl
4shzl's picture

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."     Frank Zappa


Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:00 | 6762230 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Didn't he die young ??

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:49 | 6762194 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Also known as NegroNomics!

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:51 | 6762197 FreeShitter
FreeShitter's picture

What middle class......either you have money or are apart of the free shit army.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:47 | 6762339 dot_bust
dot_bust's picture

Where is this alleged "free shit" that you speak of? I see only shit.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:52 | 6762199 Rikky
Rikky's picture

This has always been the plan of The Commie In Chief and his Socialist cronies from the Looney Left to get America to a European style single payer systems so we can suck as much as them.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:06 | 6762651 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

How many liberal idiots have actually visited a European country and received taxpayer funded "single payer" system care? Because most of the EU is in SERIOUS financial problems right now.

England's National Health System (NHS) is going bankrupt because they can no longer collect North Sea oil royalties to make up the losses.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:55 | 6762207 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

A Decade ago, employers had to ask people if they wanted to work for them, everybody could buy a house and if you got sick it wasn'r even worth thinking about it.

Now you have to beg for a job, you can't buy a house unless you already own one and if you get sick bad days are comming.

These days, if you don't own 5 million in the bank, nobody thinks you're worth a dime.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:25 | 6762418 kenny500c
kenny500c's picture

Right, and the wife could stay home and raise the kids and they would grow up happy and rooted and didn't expect to pee in the bathrooms of the opposite sexes.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:30 | 6762434 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

 

 

 

A decade ago was 2005, and if you bought RE, you paid a overly-proud price. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:56 | 6762212 Reaper
Reaper's picture

The messiah lied.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:57 | 6762216 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Gee, what a shame that I live outside of the U.S. and am not "required" to participate.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:57 | 6762366 robobbob
robobbob's picture

don't worry

FINRA will catch up to you some how

probably buried in TPP some where

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:57 | 6762220 kenny500c
kenny500c's picture

Watch out when Democrats constantly claim to be for the "middle class" at the expense of the "rich."

The reality is the middle class is getting soaked to buy the votes of the poor as the rich congratulate themselves in their gated communites. Obamacare is a perfect example.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 17:58 | 6762222 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

We taxed some stupid folks.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:57 | 6762367 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Some stupid folks are about to get the tax boot.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:01 | 6762232 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

How can anyone defend this bullshit anymore?

You have to be completely fucking retarded to support Obamacare.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:01 | 6762233 SantaClaws
SantaClaws's picture

So the hedge here is what, go long insurance companies?

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:05 | 6762244 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Amazing that no one has blown barry's head clear off his shoulders. 

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:07 | 6762254 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

cACA. pronounced: kaka.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:11 | 6762261 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

Got my notice this week from my insurer. Self employed small biz owner. My premium (just me) goes from $683 per month to $1350 month. $6850 out of pocket max costs. Fucking joke, I'll die of cancer or heart attack before I pay that. They can all suck my cock. I've fucking had it with this country and the ignorant fuckers that populate it. They swing all over Obama's sack while he bombs brown people spending billions and billions on free shit for the chronically lazy. Cannot even find help anymore, most of them so fucking stupid they can't count to 10 but dept of education budget is growing every year. Fuck You

 

Meanwhile this cunt Bernanke and Yellen are stealing my life's work. I'm tapping into savings every month now because I get no interest anymore. Fuck You Ben, come and see me and I'll beat you fucking silly you cunt fucker

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:41 | 6762328 hotrod
hotrod's picture

Not sure he is actually a Cunt fucker

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:36 | 6762456 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

Someone should collect ZH rants and put them in a book.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:15 | 6762543 seek
seek's picture

Or just have weekly/daily rant threads. God knows I could write a few dozen rants in sleep at this point.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 00:18 | 6763071 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Inthemix96 would be a star in that book!

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 09:20 | 6763664 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

We could call it the Two Minutes Hate.

Oh, sorry, that's already been taken:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate

Emmanuel Goldstein lives!

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:14 | 6762538 seek
seek's picture

Time to shrug.

Go off grid, get your savings into something tangible, go into the lowest cash burn mode you can go, and just left this beast of a government die.

I've kicked my plans into high gear for this. So far I'm planning to stay in country, but I've been toying with the idea of expat life.

Any expats have feedback on how dating life is outside the US?

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 11:28 | 6763994 Government need...
Government needs you to pay taxes's picture

Are you looking for some '2 dolla suckey suckey'?

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 01:53 | 6763228 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

I'm in the same boat as you  -almost identical. I've been unisured for 9 months - may have heart problems and have 8 days to opt into Obamacare again for next year. Screw it  - Don't trust fucking doctors anyway. I'll probably live longer stating away from them.  

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 07:20 | 6763518 Jack Oliver
Jack Oliver's picture

I take it that you are angry ?? 

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 10:09 | 6763819 Refuse-Resist
Refuse-Resist's picture

Self employed here too. 2016 is the year we don't haev health insurance. Had the cheapest possible plan, from UHC.  Just got a note in the mail about 'benefit changes'. See, the new rate  is 88% higher than the old one.

I asked myself if we could raise our rates by 88% to compensate. Then I thought "since the govenrment doesn't have a gun to MY customers' heads, then the answer is no".

Damn, I should have started a health insurance company. Then my customers would pay whatever I demand (and that can be quite a lot), instead of taking their business elsewhere like they'd do if I raised my prices like that.

I haven't received a 'tax refund' (more BS) in 15 years. I pay FIT every quarter, so their penalty means jack shit to me TBH.

It won't stop until massive numbers of us just say "NO" and refuse to comply.   It can start with this health care mafia bullshit, then proceed to the income tax mafia bullshit next.

If 30% of Americans refused to pay what would the IRS do?  50%?

They couldn't do shit. What they would have to do is start pretending they never worked there, or be getting sized for new neck tie.

Mississippi windchimes, from sea to shining sea baby.

FUCK YEAH!

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:11 | 6762263 sb36695
sb36695's picture

There are "legal" sharing ministries.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:35 | 6762313 divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

Yes there are - and some kind soul on this site pointed me to one - which I'm afraid I have been dragging my feet on.

 

http://www.chministries.org/

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:26 | 6762697 sb36695
sb36695's picture

That's what I joined, but there are others. My insurance was cancelled 2 years ago.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:11 | 6762265 Cycling Fish
Cycling Fish's picture

The Healthcare "market" isn't a free market at all because sickness usually requires urgent relief, there is nothing "voluntary" in the marketplace except cosmetic surgery.

Then of course the barriers to entry are massive.

For this reason health markets are regulated, otherwise the industry wil operate to optimise itself to extract your last dollar with your last breath. 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:05 | 6762381 robobbob
robobbob's picture

like most so called good intentioned regulations, the reality turns the industry into a government sanctioned cartel that seeks to extract your last dollar, BUT MAKES COMPETITION AGAINST IT, OR REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE, ILLEGAL......BY THREAT OF FORCE

 

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:54 | 6762623 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

This was never "good intentioned"; it was always a trick to fuck the middle class right in their assets.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:13 | 6762267 Berspankme
Berspankme's picture

How does this ignorant fucker even pay his crack dealer with his math skills. Fuck You Obama

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:39 | 6762324 Aubiekong
Aubiekong's picture

The form I filled out onour taxes for an exemption because my family is in a christian medical bill sharring group was very easty to fill out, only a couple of check marks and thats it.  There was no proof of coverage or anything to back up my claim and we were exempted from any penalty.  My suggestion to others who are in the same boat is to "join" a christian bill sharring group and exempt yourself and your family from this unconstitutional law...

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:48 | 6762341 divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

See my comment above :

http://www.chministries.org/

 

Which is probably the smart thing for us to do. But at the moment we are living outside the US and not subject to Obamacare. 

When we left the States we were paying something like $500 USD for very good coverage for one of us under COBRA and another roughly $500 USD for some sort of coverage for people with 'pre-existing' conditions, for the other. THAT plan was a government supported plan. I just don't understand why they stopped offering that sort of coverage rather than upsetting everyone's life's.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:41 | 6762461 divingengineer
divingengineer's picture

$500/mo. For COBRA!? Where the hell did you live, above the arctic circle in Alaska?

 

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:02 | 6762490 divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

Florida. We had really good coverage as an employee - which cost us very little out of the paycheck. I don't know how COBRA pricing works - does the employer contribute to some of the cost ?

I will add this - for at least a couple years I setup a new seperate account at our US brokerage and each month deposited money we saved on all our various insurances (health, flood, wind, home, auto) and taxes (real estate) and expenses (water, electic, etc). It is mind-numbing how much that account grew.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 22:02 | 6762784 divingengineer
divingengineer's picture

Crazy cheap.  You got it dicked!    Mine was $900 5years ago.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:41 | 6762329 Aubiekong
Aubiekong's picture

Remember you get to pay your premiums with after tax dollars, so to pay 19,000 per year you have to earn 27000...

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:51 | 6762342 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

If you like your communism, you can keep you communism.

 

Edit: More like fascism at this point but getting really close to that next step. Jumped the gun on that one.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:29 | 6762426 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

The only real difference is that the Nazis were snappy dressers.

But it's all about state power over the individual and nothing else, no matter what sort of gift wrapping is on the outside.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:46 | 6762478 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Hugo Boss made some beautiful black uniforms

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:34 | 6762580 optimator
optimator's picture

The Lufwaffe uniforms he disigned were even better.

Sun, 11/08/2015 - 17:16 | 6764930 silent one
silent one's picture

Black is the new look for SATAN and his disciples

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:39 | 6762344 InnVestuhrr
InnVestuhrr's picture

The solution to this and most other problems in the USA, eg entitlement program spending explosion to 70%+ of all government spending, FED crushing interest rates to over-stimulate the economy to get every last peasant, compessino, crack head, zombie, etc employed,

is to just terminate/recycle every person who cannot fully pay for all their own expenses on what they earn, and end ALL entitlement programs and all taxes and other confiscations that support these parasite subsidy programs.

The economy will BOOM.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 18:54 | 6762361 Aubiekong
Aubiekong's picture

Just checked for 2016 obamacare my wife and I would send in about 900-950 per month for a silver plan.  Lost our real affodable coverage  (that I paid for) in 2012 when obama  and his democrat thugs made it illegal.  Wife and I havent had insurance since.  So I guesse in a way I have saved  over 30K and each month it increase another thousand dollars...  I refuse to pay the penalty...

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:01 | 6762370 hotrod
hotrod's picture

Hard to say what they will do about the Penalty.  IRS is not chasing people now but once Barry leaves office and elections over the hunting will begin.  Millions of people owing penalties with accrued interest and the penalties escalate every year.  Before one knows it they could owe Thousands in penalties over a 3 year time period.  IRS not going to let that go and Barry the Thief/liar is gone.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:14 | 6762392 taopraxis
taopraxis's picture

Obamacare resulted in the cancellation of my existing private insurance policy and put me into Medicaid because I have no income except SS. (My money is in cash, gold and IRA's.) So, ironically, my health insurance is free even though I am not poor. Never see doctors, though. Wine is the only drug I will touch, although if pot is legalized...

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:21 | 6762406 rejected
rejected's picture

Thank you for your admission. You will be hearing from us soon.

Oh,,, and alcohol adds 20%.

 

ACA

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:28 | 6762425 taopraxis
taopraxis's picture

I did not want Medicaid because it is horrible insurance. The ACA would not sell me a policy. They said Medicaid was my only option unless I wanted to leave the system. Given I never use doctors and it was free, I figured, why bother? Another year, and I'll be in Medicare.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 20:54 | 6762625 Barrack Chavez
Barrack Chavez's picture

If you like your current health insurance, you can keep your current health insurance.

-Lying Turd Obama

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 21:31 | 6762708 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

my hero

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:15 | 6762396 Oilwatcher
Oilwatcher's picture

Interesting to compare our current US human healthcare system with the veterinary medical care industry, which really is pretty much a free market with no government healthcare programs or insurance involvement.  Yeah I know they're pets not people but for a few thousand bucks your dog can have a kidney transplant, heart surgery, etc. with MRIs and state of the art meds and all the technology you'd find in a human hospital for maybe 100X more money ....that's what government involvement gets you.  Also check out how competition has brought down the cost of uninsured procedures like lasik.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:29 | 6762428 divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

We have lived outside the US for a few years now. We have insurance through our local governement. When we need to we pay out of pocket for something. Sometimes I do feel like an animal when waiting for a doctor - BUT - I am an animal. I really don't need valet parking, TV in the lobby, old magazines etc. I just need someone who understands their job.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:42 | 6762467 Ms No
Ms No's picture

I have found Thailand to be fair priced, depending on the exchange rate and what your in the market for, you should at least get a free vacation out of the deal if not save 10 grand.  The West can try to run Thailands medical tourist industry down all they want they do great work.  The hospitals there are full of Americans, Europeans, Australians and even US military.  I know many people who have had major surgeries (heart surgery, new boobs, back surgery etc) there and it worked out just fine, you can even get a new pecker there or a third leg if you want. 

Some hospitals are no doubt better than others.  I got a grip of great dental work there done at about 20% the US rate and came away from a great trip and still was in the positive.  Thailand is one of the many reasons why this system is being forced on us.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:15 | 6762397 stonehands
stonehands's picture

If you think you're going to magically get rid of the private insurance monopoly- through some sort of " collapse"- and arrive at single payer- you are DELUSIONAL.

 

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:17 | 6762401 taopraxis
taopraxis's picture

Health insurance is a protection racket...just wanted to say that.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:17 | 6762402 rejected
rejected's picture

To those responsible for Barry's election,,, twice,,, How do you like that free healthcare?

Gonna make the problems with Social Security pale in comparison.

Sat, 11/07/2015 - 19:32 | 6762439 Ms No
Ms No's picture

That's just it, they like it just fine.  I just had one idiot I know declare that "Obamacare is the best thing that ever happened to this country".  He is S corporation that pays no taxes, makes tons of money and gets below the wire because he is a crook.  I don't mind somebody who gets away from the man until they try to saddle my ass with their bills... I secretly hope he gets nailed.  The only way these people will get a clue is if they get raped on their taxes and try to use the healthcare in the same year and have to drop 20,000.... dumb fucks!

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