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Officials Are "90% Sure" There Was A Bomb On Doomed Russian Passenger Plane
It’s now been more than a week since a Russian passenger jet plummeted to the Earth at 300 miles per hour in the Sinai Peninsula and to be sure, we’ve made no secret of our suspicions that an explosion was the likely culprit.
Of course you needn’t be an Egyptian forensics expert or some kind of flight safety guru to come to the conclusion that a “technical failure” probably wasn’t responsible for the what happened. Sadly, the fact that body parts were littered in an 8 kilometer radius supports the contention that the aircraft did indeed explode and over the course of the last several days, both Washington and London both said that intercepted “chatter” points to ISIS.
And then there’s the fact that IS Sinai insists they “destroyed” the plane.
On Sunday, we got still more evidence that an explosive device may have been planted on the flight. Reuters, citing sources familiar with the black box investigation, now says officials are “90% sure” that a bomb was responsible. Here’s more:
Investigators of the Russian plane crash in Egypt are "90 percent sure" the noise heard in the final second of a cockpit recording was an explosion caused by a bomb, a member of the investigation team told Reuters on Sunday.
His comments reflect a higher degree of certainty about the cause of the crash than the investigation committee has so far declared in public.
Lead investigator Ayman al-Muqaddam announced on Saturday that the plane appeared to have broken up in mid-air while it was being flown on auto-pilot, and that a noise had been heard in the last second of the cockpit recording. But he said it was too soon to draw conclusions about why the plane crashed.
Asked to explain the remaining 10 percent margin of doubt, the investigator declined to elaborate, but Muqaddam cited other possibilities on Saturday including a fuel explosion, metal fatigue in the plane or lithium batteries overheating.
So, it’s either the metal “expired” (so to speak), some batteries overheated, or the plane was blown up by terrorists. You can draw your own conclusions there.
If you, like David Cameron and US intelligence officials, do indeed believe that an “explosive device” was on board, then the next question to ask is how it got there. According to Sharm El Sheikh workers who spoke with WSJ, there’s speculation this was an inside job:
Airport workers here say they have faced intensive questioning in recent days from Egypt’s internal security agency, a sign the government is now exploring the prospect that airport insiders might have facilitated a terror attack that brought down the Russian plane that crashed last weekend.
The workers say officials from Egypt’s Ministry of Interior, the internal security agency, have questioned them about their actions and whereabouts on Oct. 31, the day the plane crashed in the Sinai Peninsula, killing all 224 people on board.
At the same time, Egypt’s military has assigned guards for airplanes staying overnight on the tarmac of Sharm El Sheikh International Airport, according to workers, as international carriers resumed flights this weekend to ferry stranded vacationers back home.
“Normally, policemen are not allowed on the tarmac,” said a person familiar with the security arrangements. “Recently, they’re being asked to spend nights beneath jets.”
In the Egyptian civil aviation ministry’s first public briefing since last weekend’s crash, agency chief Ayman Al Moqadem confirmed that there had been a mysterious sound heard on the final second of the cockpit recorder, but shed no light on what the pilots discussed during the 23 minutes after takeoff and before Metrojet Flight 9268 went silent.
To be sure, none of this is particularly surprising given everything we've learned over the past several days and at a certain point, one has to ask how many officials need to come out and confirm that this was indeed a bomb before someone finally delivers definitive proof, but regardless of whether the story is starting to get repetitive, it still has far-reaching implications - and not just for Russia's campaign against Islamic extremists. Here's Bloomberg:
“If this turns out to be a device planted by an ISIL operative or by somebody inspired by ISIL, then clearly we will have to look again at the level of security we expect to see in airports in areas where ISIL is active,” U.K. Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond told BBC Television’s Andrew Marr show on Sunday.
Emirates airline, ranked world No. 1 by international traffic, is already looking at its security procedures in anticipation of tighter rules, President Tim Clark told reporters in Dubai on Sunday.
“As we speak, we’re reviewing our procedures in terms of security and ramp handling and access to our aircraft,” Clark said. “We have 22 cities in Africa, multiple cities in west Asia -- India, Pakistan, et cetera -- all of these will have to be reviewed to make sure we’re as safe as we can be.”
Britain banned commercial flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh on the Red Sea in the wake of the crash, leaving thousands of vacationers stranded. Other countries, including Russia, followed and travel warnings ensued with Norway, Finland and Denmark all advising against all non-essential trips. Hammond said those trying to get home on unscheduled flights face delays of two to three days at most.
Egypt’s benchmark EGX 30 Index of stocks slumped 2.6 percent at the close in Cairo, the most in two months.
In short, this is likely to cause a global rethink of airline security and importantly, this is a veritable disaster for an Egyptian tourism industry which was still stinging from a September "incident" that saw the military accidentally engage a group of Mexicans having a barbecue after mistaking them for ISIS.
It will be interesting to watch the Egyptian economy over next six or so months because frankly, the above suggests Cairo could be in for a bumpy ride.
Finally, note that the al-Sisi government recently signed new legislation widening Cairo's surveillance authority and the President isn't exactly known for having a sterling record on human rights (he's a Mubarak disciple after all). If this ends up hobbling the economy, expect al-Sisi to crack down, setting the stage for more of the same in terms of social unrest, coups, and counter-coups.
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Maybe passenger on plane is only 90% dead.
Putin is fighting and killing the type of scum that blow up civilian airliners.
Anything explosive from the cargo hold and large enough to do significant damage ought to leave easily found residues on many pieces. Plus any sizable blast of sufficient size can often be pinpointed at a near exact point in the plane by looking at the structural deformation of the pieces around the blast area.
I'm long dead Russians
Lack of any residue would put a lot more emphasis on metal fatigue and / or fuel tank vapors igniting.
Personally, with the amount of time that has gone by and without confirmation of residues or structural damage obviously caused by HE, then I put metal fatigue and or fuel vapors closer to 40 % chance.
With those 3 down votes, maybe I should add a 0.5 % chance of some type of directed energy weapon.
Why are they 90% sure? Because they know it was one of their own stray shoulder-fired units and they desperately need to change the spin.
What a coincidence that Israel and US were conducting an air defense drill at the same time right in the area: http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-hosts-its-largest-ever-international...
Im sure this had nothing to do with the shootdown...
BuddyEffed appears to be on Alinsky's payroll or just a useful idiot.
Dig a little deeper. Guess what country handles security for International Flights. Yep, you guessed right. Isreal.
There you go! Blame everything on the wicked joos!
Maybe it was the ignition switch. Is GM a parts supplier for Airbus?
I'm not on anybody's payroll, or beholden to anyone. Just calling them like I see them. Long time avionics software engineer that's written and tested more code than you can shake a stick at. Therefore you sir, are more likely closer to being in the idiot category. Part of my stint was even writing code for rockets and missiles so I got a legitamate claim to rocket scientist. What's your illusion / delusion Truxt? Legend in anyone's mind but your own?
From that comment section.
Screen shot of Daily Mail article citing a near miss on August 23rd (23 occult number?).
http://82.221.129.208/ifyouareinamericayouprobablycantseethisa7.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3307741/Rocket-attack-UK-tour-je...
Someone I know in the military, thought they were heading back to Afghanistan, but are now heading for the Sinai. Apparently, the US has an AF base there.
This is ZH Buddy. Don't bring any "metal fatigue" bullshit round here mofo! It needs to be a far reaching plot involving in no particular order: Jews, ISIS, Putin, Obama & Goldman Sachs. Any suggestion otherwise is pure nonsense. Get with the program pal!
Alright Sherlock shithead, how's this for you -- Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
Arthur Conan Doyle
I'm agreeing with you!
Yea what are you banging 47 virgins with your anti-Zh cocks?!
It's Bush's fault.
This plane had a tail strike in 2001. It had to be repaired.
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/doomed-russian-jet-suffered-tail-str...
As far as fuel tank vapors go, I don't buy that at all. The feds first generated that lie after TWA 800 was shot/bombed down. Kerosene just doesn't ignite like gasoline. It's too heavy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800_conspiracy_theories
http://twa800.com/
http://twa800.com/pages/fuel.htm
Oh yeah, there is definitely going to be a bull market in dead Russians :)
Boris is long on dead islamofascist. Attack Russia Metrojet is very grave mistake because Putin is not checker player like Barry, but is exact vengance with force on terrorist.
In other news, most virgin in Muslim Heaven is obese and is hideous to behold, unmarried virgin is for reason. Silly terrorist.
Putin just might fuck their asses up big-time. Looks like some Egyptians might need to be roughed up as well.
Bad news, Boris -- Russia's experience of blowback won't be any different from that of the USA. We already killed a million ragheads -- is that not enough vengeance and force? And still the blowback continues.
In real life, vengeance is not like a Rambo movie. It's more like quicksand.
You are right, is bad news for citizenry who is not body guard and is cannot defend against Islamofascist horde. But that is not stop Russia Federation of exact vengance upon towel head extremist. Remember Stalingrad if doubt resolve of Russia mindset to exact retaliation.
Several million dead 'ragheads' sir.
when has Russia's resolve been weakened by losses during war when facing an existential threat?
Zio-fascist cunts such as yourself should take heed
Hitler killed 25 million Russians...and still lost.
Quit making multiple accounts and talking to yourself.
I am Long Explosives trace detection companies... specifically $IMSC who Are are on the rise and likely to see at least a double from here if things continue to heat up in the middle east... perhaps bought up by L-3 or another major Defense contractor.
Defense stocks seem a good place to be at the moment if one is going long on anything at all at the moment.
And Obama is funding moderate terrorists. Win-Win! oops.
It took less time for the US authorities to be 100% sure that Al Qaida and Osama did 9/11. Like about 15 minutes, if I recall. They're slipping.
They knew Putin shot down the plane over the Ukraine the same hour it was announced that it was shot down too.
And it took even less time to blame a video for Bengazi.
I am 100% sure the western authorities knew the plane was going to be blown up with a bomb on Corzine Day (Halloween) because they selected that day to do the deed.
Maybe passenger on plane is only 90% dead.
-------
Off to see Miracle Max, then?
Maybe the plane and crew had a Heart Attack.
ORLY?
Check to see who was in the air at that time running military exercises.
Ha.
Either way, it's another bombshell for the Egyptian tourisme sector which is about it's entire GDP.
And as all toursime agency's are pulling their clients away and cancelling the new bookings, Egypt will be forced to look for somebody to blame and attack.
And another gun for hire has been recruited to do the dirty work for them.
At the beginning of the 20th century, the Arab world was poorer than sub-saharan Africa. By the middle of this century, it will be again.
At the beginning of the 20th century, America was poorer than most South American countries. By the middle of this century, it will be again.
In 1900 only Argentina came close to the wealth of the US
Close? America didn't even come close to Argentina.
In the 20th century, America took in 23.5 million immigrants. Dirt poor immigrants, mostly outcasts who all had to start over from scratch.
It was nothing like what America is now and life wasn't like what you see in Disney movies.
In 1900 Argentina was among the 10th richest countries in the world!
At the beginning of the 20th century, Israel did not exist. By the middle of this century, it will again be tha case.
Well, if Israel doesn't exist, neither will the people responsible for bringing it down. It doesn't much matter whether that is Arabs, Iran, Russia, or all of the above. Israel has the capacity to annihilate them all in that scenario.
But meanwhile enjoy your pleasant delusional view of the world.
The Samson option. Something so sick only a psychopath could dream up.
Thing is, shlomo, if Israel does carry out the nuking of a western city will ruin the facade of perpetual victims. it will be open season on every Jew around the world.
This time changing your surname and pretending to be catholic won't work like it did in the past.
Heh, your Samson option won't save you if you piss off the Bear. If the Russians could beat the Germans--the best fighters that ever were on this planet--your artificial construct won't last a week.
Well, let us hope it is the Arabs then. I'm ok with that.
Now tourists can go visit that silly Mannekin Pis in Brussels.
Oh good, nothing could possibly go wrong again with Egyptian cops on guard!
More lies from Washington Douche-Bags. I'll wait for the Russian report thankyou...
Reuters, citing sources familiar with the black box investigation,
I quit reading right there. I wait for the full report too.
"Reuters" is the problem in that statement. They're bought and paid for just like the AP. I'll wait for either RT or All Jazeera to report before considering it even possibly truthful.
Reuters and AP have thoroughly discredited themselves in the last 15+ years.
And, Rothchild owned.
I read on a link in ZH comments that Al Jazeera is a CIA start-up. I watch it several times a week and it's pretty mainstream. Seems CCTV and RT are the only ones who don't toe the line.
Where do you get the nonsense that Reuters is Rothschild owned? The controlling ownership is Canadian and Chairman David Thomson is about as wasp as you can get,
http://thomsonreuters.com/en/about-us/board-of-directors.html
... sure, downvote the truth, jackass.
And, Rothchild owned.
It is often a mistake to trust Washington. But trusting Moscow is just full retard.
Fuck yo'Mutti !
You think maybe we should trust Israel then mutti?
Vladimir Putin,
You are a liar and a fraud who is a lackey of the bankers.
If you weren’t,
1) The Russian central bank would not be a private treasonous institution controlled by City of London/Western ruling class interests.
2) Russia would not accept fraudulent (unconstitutional, illegal) and not-even-worthless [because FRNs are not even defined as to exactly what they are worth] US dollars or Euros for Russia’s real and valuable oil and other natural resources, or for its arms sales.
3)Russia would vehemently have denounced the fact that Americans and Europeans are manipulating the price of gold, silver and platinum lower by selling precious metal that they don’t have in fraudulent paper markets only, to the tune of several hundred ounces MORE than each ounce the West actually have available for delivery. [For each ounce of eligible & registered gold in Comex warehouses, the Americans already have sold several hundred ounces on paper.] Like all IMF member countries, Russia acquiesces that it’s forbidden to use gold as money…
Putin,
You’re a fucking traitor to mankind.
If not,
You’d have used fuel-air bombs on Raqqa (the de facto capital of the Islamic State) and exterminated these American agents before they tortured, raped and killed hundreds of thousands of human beings.
You would have hit the oil fields controlled by ISIS which finances their rape, torture and mass murder of human beings in the name of American- and European-aligned interests. You would have denounced and attacked the parties that buy this oil from them and destroyed their oil trade routes.
Putin,
You’re no chess player. You’re a piece of shit.
NOOOOOOO! Your truth burns my eyes! NOOOOOOOO!
Funny like this. Looks like the trolls are fantasy really bad.
Blizzard - enchanting!
"Putin,
You’re no chess player. You’re a piece of shit."
Me think those dropping came from Obozo stutting around the chess board whilst declaring victory
Another fucking retard.
If I remember they can pull mic sounds as the pressure wave moved through the fuselage and tell pretty much what happend. I'll gladly sacrifice egyptian tourism for a couple of unmarked graves full of ISIS assholes. Pun intended
I wonder why are US and UK officials so busy to spread speculations about this accident? Why can't they simply wait results of the insvestigation? Do they have something to do with?
The spooks watch the internet chatter and try to figure out if anybody has knowledge of events that could lead to obvious suspects.
... and if they don't hear any they make stuff up to create a politically desirable patsy.
Maybe because when the official conclusions are published and they are not about a bomb the public will regard it with disbelief being already well brain washed.
Scarebus want this to be a bomb so bad, their teeth ache
How come when a plane blows up in the Ukraine the black boxes are promptly handed over to the Dutch (read US) authorities but when it is a Russian plane the Egyptians get to keep them? Do the Egyptians have any expertise in the matter and are the Russians not a directly concerned party?
NO! I don't believe in this - because Russian elite denied that it was ISIS work! I can't believe Putin could lie to me! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOO!
http://nooooooooooooooo.com/
I cry when I hear our Russian anthem in Egypt:
https://youtu.be/7-_-XpfpLPE
Nice of you to bother your brain is fucked up. Apparently it gives you a kind of heightened self-esteem?
Has anyone checked whether Ramzi Yousef is still in his cell? Among other things, he refined the science of placing bombs on planes, using digital watches for timers and undetectable explosive liquids. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzi_Yousef
If he's still in custody, maybe the Egyptians should start by reviewing his contact lists.
had a egypt holiday decades ago, traveling from red sea to the nile river with an escort.
major crossings had tanks or apcs as guarding equipment.
only for a bit of everyday life in ME countries.
wonder that such a thing had not happened b4
We're seeing the USSofA strategy play out. Make every where unsafe with the fallout increasing tourism back home.
Who say's all them dwollars spend on HomoLand Security weren't well invested? S/C
There's a new one, lithium batteries. In the interests of decorum I'll refrain.
I believe the bulk of the onboard batteries are up front (see photos and article here : http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/files/tech_data/General_in...).
A problem there would not explain the tail separating.
Well personally, I think it was structural failure or a bomb. They had already set their course and it was on auto pilot at 36k ft, a shoulder fired missle can't reach it at that altitude...and as far as we know ISIS doesn't have SAM's in the Sinai.
Correct if I'm wrong but the tail section was found six miles? from the main debris field...
Says 5 kilometer here : http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/03/africa/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai
Any problem with a rear battery, even a smaller sized one, that somehow generated gas that could not vent might be suspect. Am sure authorities would already be considering this.
Found this article that might be pertinent : http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal2015/17%20Ponchaut%20Paper%202015.pdf
A small device positioned correctly to take out the controls would cause the plane to do maneuvers outside its limits. out of control, and initially it would appear as a structural failure.
Or the planes systems could have been remotely acquired and flown in such a manner to destroy it,,, again looking like a structural failure.
To do this would require extensive knowledge of the aircraft systems which would indicate the involvement of rogue intelligence agencies.
You sir, are full of shit. Extensive knowledge of systems is available by googling. Airliners are fragile. Any bomb in a cargo hold will take out hydraulics, fuel, electric systems, not too mention rip the hull open like the aluminum beer can it is. Any half brained child could construct a bomb and check it or ship on virtually any plane in the world. Very, very, infinitesmally small percentage of all checked bags, cargo is screened for bombs world wide.
It is absolutely amazing that these congenitally retarded 'terrorists' haven't co-ordinated dozens of bombs to go off and take down thousands of innocents in a single day.
90% sure is quite a claim,...which requires at least 90% prove.
I think they are lying.!
for some reason i suspect putin knows what happened to the plane and he is planning some retribution that will once again show russia is fortunate to have a leader like him, and the rest of the world is grateful for the size of his juevos.
I have no doubt that if the A321 was blown up by a bomb, that Russia will exact its revenge upon whoever ordered the attack. Unfortunately, this may be someone in Langley or TelAviv. However, it will come at a time and place of Putin's choosing. I wouldn't hold my breath that it will be soon, and certainly it won't be predictable.
The mystery is why the US Deep State and their pig-fucking puppet Dave Cameron are so vocal in claiming it is a bomb, perhaps trying to goad Putin into some sort of reaction. Given the deep state tried *SO* hard to goad Putin into reacting in the Ukraine, I think Putin is again holding back with his response to this latest provocation.
By the way, if you haven't figured it out yet, SYRIA is Putin's response to the US Deep State's provocations in Ukraine (or at least, a big factor in his response).
Putin is putting (excuse the pun) on a clinic in asymetrical warfare. Think about it... Also notice how really, really quiet and circumspect the ZioNazi satraps in Ukraine have been since Russia made its move in Syria (and the extent of Russian airpower is manifest - what Ukraine would have gotten if Russia had truly invaded Ukraine), and how apoplectic the US Deep State has been in its reaction. The number of misqueues and inconsistencies from the US State Department, or the US Military for example, have been off the charts.
The US Deep State is, in a word, "unnerved" and off-balance meethinks... they are making a lot of mistakes, which could be very dangerous.
Things aren't entirely quiet in east Ukraine. The UkroNazis are still firing grads into Donestsk. Somehow OSCE seems to miss this.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/24...
All terrorist acts are State sponsored.
I agree. An acquaintance of mine and former government worker farted a lot...should have been up on war crimes for those gas attacks.
The Reuters report is bogus. The Kremlin debunks it here :
http://sputniknews.com/world/20151108/1029785601/a321-crash-investigatio...
Quote, "Airport workers here say they have faced intensive questioning in recent days from Egypt’s internal security agency, a sign the government is now exploring the prospect that airport insiders might have facilitated a terror attack that brought down the Russian plane that crashed last weekend."
Let me do that one again, "Airport workers here say they have faced intensive questioning in recent days from Egypt’s internal security agency, a sign that, as opposed to the MH17 case, the government is leading a proper investigation and leaving no stone unturned, while not jumping to hasty conclusions."
Fixed it for you.
I can see the day coming whereby all check-in luggage will have to be scanned and potentially opened/inspected before it's checked in. This will require a reconfiguration of airports and will cause quite a lot of aggro for passengers.
Probably but still won't deter airport employees from sneaking in bombs or anything else they want. Some of the lowest paid employees are the baggage handlers who climb in and out of the cargo holds. That normally means high turnover of employees.
I would have to be forced at gunpoint to go anywhere near an airport.
No way will I willingly allow government goons violate me or my family. They hire nothing but pedophiles, freaks and thieves and have stopped zero threats while harassing citizens stupid enough to still fly.
The aggravation you speak of is self inflicted. Don't fly until the goons crawl back into their holes.
All that is needed are dogs. Man's best friend. Bomb sniffing dogs required by each and every airline to sniff each and every bag. Problem solved. And, much cheaper than the bullshit, useless, crony capitalist, high tech bomb scanners that are always mistaking the cow shit on your shoes for bomb material.
Wonder why these "officials" don't ask what was found on the tapes from black boxes of MH17.
What I wonder why. There are hundreds of surveillence cameras in airports around airport parking, in the luggage areas and terminals
But not one camera in a black box on the actual commercial plane itself, in the cockpit or passenger area. WHY IS THIS? They have better surveillance at a 7-11 convienience store than a commercial liner.
Hey, what happened to the reports that the pilot wanted to land somewhere?
Fishy from the very beginning. At first, people kept talking about missiles and that the plane was to high to be shot down. Hardly a mention about a possible bomb or some explosion on-board the plane.
Then there was the co-pilot's call that the plane was in bad shape.
Then there was the talk of the tail damage years ago.
What, Egyptian save-face shit?
Now reports of jihadists with British accents celebrating the plane crash.
In any event, a sad event for the friends & loved ones of the perished.
So if ISIS planted the bomb, shall we assume they'll attack an American aircraft next (as the US has been flying sorties for months)?
If they're upset at Russia after just a month...they must be really pissed off at the Americans.
The trigger device, if it was a bomb, was sophisticated enough to set it off at cruise altitude, meaning certain death for all. But given technology in 2015, such a timer is childs play of not infants play.
Russian Intelligence leaked several days ago an assessment of Egyptian security services. In which they let it be known that they consider 1/2 of Egyptian security officials and officers to be compromised by Saudi intelligence the other 1/2 they consider to be compromised by Israeli intelligence. As they said "Half work for Saudi Arabia and the other half for Israel". In both cases liberal handouts of money seem to be the motivation, while in the Saudi case, Islamic Jihad is also a factor.
Probably, getting a bomb onto a Russian plane on the resort city airport was something close to childs play, and that it took almost a month to pull off shows just how careful the bombers were.
US Defense Secretary made a well know threat a couple weeks ago, claiming that "Russian actions in Syria would soon result in heavy casualties for Russia". It took balls to make that public as a threat for all the news outlets to quote. And they all quoted it! Since all Western Media can be considered an arm of the CIA and State department, then we know that editors would NEVER have given the threat such publicity unless that was what the CIA wanted. They wanted the threat to be well publicised!
Even US defense department and former CIA operatives have both had members come out and declare the US connection to ISIS, Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda to be long standing, and a mistake. These whistle blowers got a bit of coverage on media, a surprise in itself.
The fact is, a patsy will probably be given up by the bombers. They would never have planted the bomb until a patsy and cover story were not already in place. We can agree that much! If past history is a model, then the guilty parties have more than one "perpetrator" who does not even know it yet, that they are placed to take the fall. When you combine. Saudi Intelligence, The CIA, MI-6, Mossad, and a dozen underground terror groups, all together working in tandom, it is not at all hard to believe one or more of them found bombing the plane as simple as can be. Russians are now world wide targets, and expect carnage.
If you are correct in the theory that the west made a veiled threat to Putin to back off from Syria otherwise they would deploy their terrorist assets against Russian civilians, and now they have done so, then what are Putins options? I see no evidence that Putin is the type of monster found in western leadership and he would not engage in tit for tat civilian murder. If he plans to stay the Syrian course he will have no choice but to hunt down and covertly destroy the psychopathic monsters who hatch these plans. Putin is quiet now, his intelligence services must be working overtime.
It would not be surprising to find out the US spooks were involved in this up to their eyeballs. These monsters have no qualms taking out their own citizens (WTC),,, so killing Russians would not bother them in the least.
There was an air force exercise going on in Israel at the time. The bomb could have been activated from a fighter jet from some distance to the airliner, if that's not too convoluted of a theory. (Or somehow involved in the hacking of the control system, if want to go with that theory.)
There was also a NATO exercise going on on the Black Sea prior to the MH17 crash. (Two spy ships were there at the time and AWACS in the air.) The Russian MoD said they saw a Su-25 flying near to the airliner. (Interestingly enough, the Ukrainian civilian and military primary radars were not operational at the time, for the official report they used "secondary surveillance radar data", as per p. 38 of the report.)
Security services at Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam are provided by Dutch-Israeli firm, established by former members of the Israeli secret service. The airport is also a weapons transportation point for Israel. The firm came under scrutiny in 2009-10 after the "underwear bomber" incident. (Supposedly a guy linked to Al-Qaeda boarded the plane with plastic explosives in Amsterdam en route to Detroit.) The US subsidiary of the firm provided security services at Boston Logan Airport on 9/11 where two hijacked planes originated from.
This Egyptian airport was originally an Israeli air force base. The plane crashed not too far form the Israeli border. (And most likely also too far form other military and intelligence bases.)
Ashton Carter is a zionist agent. Rhodes scholar. Former advisor to Goldman Sachs. Board member of a think tank called Belfer Center where a Rothschild is on the advisory board. Former partner at a firm called Global Technology Partners, a Rothschild affiliate. Co-authored an essay on "catastrophic terrorism" with Philip Zelikow in 1998, published in Foreign Affairs (i.e. CFR). Zelikow later became the executive director of the 9/11 commission. Carter dined with Kagan and other neocon on his second day in office earlier this year.
Not quite child's play, but certainly some players were involved...
http://syrianperspective.com/2015/11/saudi-arabia-behind-russian-airline...
The pushed narritive is "bomb". In the past, aircraft investigations were long and drawn out before a "conclusive" report was issued. Not this time. Focus on the airframe; this airplane carries fuel in the pressure hull, no pumps. Cabin pressure is the motive force that "moves" the fuel into the center tank. IMHO, fuel and baggage in the same compartment = bad idea.
321 Mech
Wrong, Wrong, WRONG!!! Fuel is not in the pressure hull you ignorant slut. Fuel is typically fed to the collector tanks, located in the wings, through a motive flow based on the Bernouli principle, assisted by electrical pumps feeding into a high capacity mechanical pump that sprays it into the engine.
Fucking morons need to shut your pie holes.
i saw the name list most of them arent russian
The plane crash was a tragedy, but it will have absolutely no impact on Russia's actions in Syria. This from one Russian: "Putin is always going forward, he is like a locomotive. Just forward, all the time, always!"
From The Saker: "Week Five of the Russian Intervention in Syria: The Russians Are Digging in" There is no doubt that the downing of Kogalymavia Flight 9268 was the main event of the past week. Since I have covered this issue elsewhere, I shall not return to it in detail again here. I will just repeat here my personal conclusion that this tragedy will not impact the Russian operation in Syria or affect the political situation inside Russia. There has, however, been another interesting but less noticed development this week in the Russian operation in Syria: the Russians are quietly but very effectively “digging in”. For the first time, Russia has officially declared that air-defense units were also deployed with the Russian forces. These are most likely the land-based versions of the S-300 missile, possibly in combination with point defense systems such as the Pantsir-S1 and other, shorter range, MANPADs such as the 9K338 Igla-S and the advanced 9K33 Verba. There are also reports indicating that the Russians have deployed very sophisticated electronic warfare units including top-of-the line Krasukhka-4 EW systems which are amongst the most sophisticated mobile EW systems ever built and they are reportedly capable of jamming AWACS and satellites in space. Add to this the presense of SU-30SMs in the skies, and you have a force capable of controlling the Syrian skies. The real purpose of these efforts is becoming obvious: Russia is trying to deny the US the control of the skies over Syria and, so far, there is very little the USA can do about it (short of starting WWIII). There are now also reports of Russian special forces being sent to Syria. What is certain is that the Russians are steadily increasing their capabilities in Syria and that their presence is rapidly growing from a small and vulnerable force to a much more balanced and capable one.
For a really good analysis of what Russia and the West's strategies possibly are this is well worth the read. Very well thought out.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/how-russia-pursues-its-objectives-...
Maybe the Russians are just being quiet to let the killers slip up and implicate themselves. There should be undisputed evidence of explosives by now, maybe they just havn't figured out the device yet. Or maybe they know it's the US and are waiting for the right moment to respond. If the US was NOT involved, why wouldn't they start getting revenge right away?
If this was a bomb it is likely the Russians already know who did it. If so, then, as it was in response to their success in Syria, their best response may well be just to keep going, maybe upping the tempo slightly, a kind of slow torture, watching your plans ground to dust.
Whatever it is they do, it is unlikely that we, the plebs, will ever know for sure what form the revenge took. All we can be certain of is that there will be retribution and those that need to learn the lessons will know all about it.
There was no bomb. The aft fuselage was separated from the rest of the aircraft and the horizontal stabilizers and elevators were separated from the aft fuselage due to overstress. The aircraft went into an uncommanded dive as a result of a failure of the flight control system and control authority could be regained only by shutting down several pieces of equipment. The crew simply overstressed the airframe after regaining control. Airbus and the European aviation authority warned of this occurrence with an Airworthiness Directive on July 8 of this year.
Another maybe indeed. or a fuel tank explosian --excess heat from sitting on a desert runway. I think they know by now anyway.
Excess heat on the runway?! The plane exploded at FL310. It is typically between -30 to -50 degrees celsius at those altitudes.
Don't believe it? Take pan of jet fuel cooled to zero and throw a match in it. Poof! The match flames out. Nothing, nada.
DO NOT try that with gasoline.
The fuel tank explosion in mid air on the East Coast many years back may have been due to heating while sitting on the tarmac for a long time, with either engines running or an APU generating heat if I recall correctly.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19960717-0
The airplane was refueled at JFK and remained at gate 27 with the auxiliary power unit (APU) and two of its three air conditioning packs operating for about 2 1/2 hours until it departed as TWA flight 800.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "An explosion of the center wing fuel tank (CWT), resulting from ignition of the flammable fuel/air mixture in the tank. The source of ignition energy for the explosion could not be determined with certainty, but, of the sources evaluated by the investigation, the most likely was a short circuit outside of the CWT that allowed excessive voltage to enter it through electrical wiring associated with the fuel quantity indication system.
Contributing factors to the accident were the design and certification concept that fuel tank explosions could be prevented solely by precluding all ignition sources and the design and certification of the Boeing 747 with heat sources located beneath the CWT with no means to reduce the heat transferred into the CWT or to render the fuel vapor in the tank nonflammable."
You are incorrect. The TWA flight exploded due to shorting out (sparking) of a fuel pump in the nearly empty center tank (bottom of fuselage) which ignited the fuel vapor.
I have been flying airliners for 18 years.
The link I referenced talked about a possible build up of heat from the APUs and air conditioning packs.
The warmer the vapors, the higher the risk.
And the internal temperature of the plane would not cool very quickly on a climb out.
Dude. The APU is not near the fuel tanks. Air conditioning packs have nothing to do the fuel. You can see the fuel temp in the cockpit display. The entire plane cools down rapidly during climb out. If I don't have the heat up, the entire cabin is well below freezing at altitude-- and that is taking into account a few hundred bio heat generating masses (passengers).
Once again, jet fuel is not gasoline. Jet fuel's flashpoint is about 100 degrees F. Gasoline is about minus 40 degrees F. Do you see the difference? 100 degree fuel at FL310 is ridiculous.
And just what do you know of thermal mass and thermal inertia? Obviously the people making the report I quoted thought the APUs and the air conditioning packs were close enough to cause heating, otherwise they would have been pretty large fools in making their report. Let's hazard an educated guess here, and propose that either those people who wrote that report are fools, or you are a fool. Why don't you point out to me where the location of the APUs and air conditioning packs are, and where the waste heat goes? To cool the plane down while on the runway, the air conditioning packs create heat with a heat pump effect where the cabin air is cooled and the waste heat is exhausted / radiated.
Hey CosmicSerpent, Regarding your specious comments on the APU and air conditioning packs, please note the report I cited specifically indicates that heat from them could get to the CWT. It says heat sources located beneath the CWT, and heat is transferred upwards, now isn't it? The article specifically says HEAT TRANSFERRED INTO THE CWT.
"Contributing factors to the accident were the design and certification concept that fuel tank explosions could be prevented solely by precluding all ignition sources and the design and certification of the Boeing 747 with heat sources located beneath the CWT with no means to reduce the heat transferred into the CWT "
I guess your CosmicSerpent handle is only half right. You definitely aren't cosmic, but you may well lay fair claim to serpent.
I call bullshit. The pilots would be giving audible WTFs (recorded to the black boxes) and there would be plenty of indication in the flight data recorders from the recorded data parameters for pitch, roll, yaw, etc. With the loud bang recorded, it does appear that something instantaneous happened.
A "noise" was recorded not a "loud bang". Also no flight data readings or cockpit voice recording transcrips have been released.
Maybe Reuters et al should be consulting with Jeff Smith ..
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/07/the-sinai-shootdown-it-finally-t...
So if it was an air-to-air missle, how did the guys on the ground know exactly when to film the plane blowing up?
Bomb in the hold seems more reasonable.
Whatever the cause for the downed plane, you can bet your booty, if it was not an mechanical failure, the CRIMINALS, in the US were behind it.
I bet ur booty
no. when empire pushin' angle it's 180% opposite. manpad.
ONE THING we all know about this administration: Everything they say is a lie. Starting from that, we know then that is was NOT a bomb. A SAM? Mid-air collision with a US drone? Air-to-air missile?
i always said it was a 'minki with a bum....'
'Egyptian tourism industry which was still stinging from a September "incident" that saw the military accidentally engage a group of Mexicans having a barbecue after mistaking them for ISIS. ...'
i just cant get the image of a bunch of mexicans with sombreros and ponchos running around getting shot at...like something out of an old disney cartoon.
So I wonder which covert agency arranged the bomb on behalf of ISIS?
I am Long $IMSC, best in class explosives detection equipment currently trading at a low but starting a comeback... and about to see its market demand EXPLODE!!
I assume everyone here has heard the phase "explosive decompression" before. At that altitude, if the tail structure failed and the tail section separated, the sound could be similar to explosion.
That the autopsies so far do not reveal explosive residue is interesting but not conclusive (to me, anyway). I can easily imagine that an explosive device in certain places in the tail section would cause structural failure and explosive decompression without spewing residue in the forward direction (towards passengers).
So they'll have to perform explosive residue tests on a great many parts of the aircraft before they can completely rule out an explosive device.
I recall an inter-island flight in Hawaii where a section of the top of the aircraft near the front suffered structural failure. An area perhaps 4 meters wide got sucked off the top of the airplane. That was an instance of explosive decompression. As I recall, one of the flight attendants got sucked up through the hole and was never found. The pilot was able to reduce altitude and land the aircraft in that case, because luckily no critical controls passed through that part of the structure.
In case the following factoid isn't obvious, I'll say it. When traveling at that speed, if any forward-facing opening in the structure occurs, the wind forces will instantly rip and shred downwind structures to pieces.
Vladimir Putin,
You are a liar and a fraud who is a lackey of the bankers.
If you weren’t,
1) The Russian central bank would not be a treasonous private institution controlled by City of London/Western ruling class interests.
2) Russia would not accept fraudulent (unconstitutional, illegal) and not-even-worthless [because FRNs are not even defined as to exactly what they are worth] US dollars or Euros for Russia’s real and valuable oil and other natural resources, or for its arms sales.
3)Russia would vehemently have denounced the fact that Americans and Europeans are manipulating the price of gold, silver and platinum lower by selling precious metal that they don’t have in fraudulent paper markets only, to the tune of several hundred ounces MORE than each ounce the West actually have available for delivery. [For each ounce of eligible & registered gold in Comex warehouses, the Americans already have sold several hundred ounces on paper.] Like all IMF member countries, Russia acquiesces that it’s forbidden to use gold as money…
Putin,
You’re a fucking traitor to mankind.
If not,
You’d have used fuel-air bombs on Raqqa (the de facto capital of the Islamic State) and exterminated these American agents before they tortured, raped and killed hundreds of thousands of human beings.
You would have hit the oil fields controlled by ISIS which finances their rape, torture and mass murder of human beings in the name of American- and European-aligned interests. You would have denounced and attacked the parties that buy this oil from them and destroyed their oil trade routes.
Putin,
You’re no chess player. You’re a piece of shit, just like Obama or Bush.
From the European Aviation Safety Agency Airworthiness Directive 2015-0135 dated July 8, 2015 (the third revision)
"When Alpha Prot is activated due to blocked AOA probes, the flight control laws order a continuous nose down pitch rate that, in a worst case scenario, cannot be stopped with backward sidestick inputs, even in the full backward position. If the Mach number increases during a nose down order, the AOA value of the Alpha Prot will continue to decrease. As a result, the flight control laws will continue to order a nose down pitch rate, even if the speed is above minimum selectable speed, known as VLS.
This condition, if not corrected, could result in loss of control of the aeroplane.+