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Is It Time To Renounce U.S. Citizenship While You Still Can?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Nick Giambruno via InternationalMan.com,

The number of people abandoning the “greatest country in the world” just hit a record high…

The U.S. government recently reported that 1,426 people renounced their U.S. citizenship in the third quarter. That’s a record quarterly high. Like all government statistics, I view this one skeptically. Many observers think the actual number is much higher.

Still, with another quarter left in 2015, the number of Americans who renounce U.S. citizenship this year could easily top the previous annual record set last year.

I recently spoke with a consultant who gave up his U.S. citizenship. He’s now a citizen of Dominica, a small Caribbean country, and splits his time between Asia and South America.

He said he was leaving a sinking ship for a better life elsewhere. On top of that, the U.S. government is placing an increasing number of hurdles on Americans who want to renounce their citizenship. So he thought it was time to do just that.

This isn’t how the average person sees things. Unthinking Americans are puzzled when they read about the increasing number of people renouncing their citizenship.

As you can see in the chart below, this trend is exploding. And it has important implications for your personal freedom and financial prosperity.

This trend really shouldn’t surprise anyone. The U.S. tax system is the most rapacious in the world. It’s also the most aggressively enforced. For many, the benefits of U.S. citizenship no longer outweigh the costs.

The U.S. is the only country in the world that successfully taxes its citizens no matter where they are in the world…even if they leave and never step foot in the country again. It’s called citizenship-based taxation.

If you’re a U.S. citizen, you should think of citizenship-based taxation as a ball and chain attached to your leg.

Nearly every other country in the world taxes people based on residency, not citizenship. For example, if you’re a Canadian citizen and leave Canada to live in Dubai, the Canadian government won’t force you to pay taxes on the income you earn in Dubai. However, if you’re a U.S. citizen, you have to pay taxes to the U.S. government no matter where you live and work.

Only one other country in the entire world, Eritrea, has citizenship-based taxation.

Eritrea is a tiny, mostly unknown, country in East Africa. It levies a 2% flat tax on the income of Eritrean citizens who live abroad. Unlike the U.S., Eritrea is an impoverished country. Its government has a hard time enforcing its tax system within its own borders, let alone the rest of the world. Many Eritreans who live abroad have never even heard of this tax, and those who have don’t worry too much about paying it.

The U.S., on the other hand, does have the ability to enforce its Byzantine tax system literally anywhere in the world. When you consider the reach of the U.S. government and the penalties for not paying (which can only be described as cruel and unusual), it’s no surprise Americans are terrified. And they should be… or they aren’t paying attention.

The U.S. government threatens Americans with years in prison and outrageous fines if they don’t file a litany of complex forms correctly… even if they don’t owe taxes in the first place. U.S. citizens are in the uniquely unfavorable position of having the world’s worst tax policies and a government that relentlessly enforces them everywhere on the planet.

For many, it’s a tight and suffocating tax leash. Renouncing your U.S. citizenship is the only way to free yourself from U.S. taxation while you’re still breathing. It’s only logical that an increasing number of people are taking this step.

UN Resolution 2023

The media routinely condemns Eritrea for its attempts to tax nonresident citizens. Even the United Nations has weighed in. In Resolution 2023, the UN Security Council condemned Eritrea for “using extortion, threats of violence, fraud and other illicit means to collect taxes outside of Eritrea from its nationals.”

The U.S. government supported Resolution 2023, even though it does the very same thing on an industrial scale.

When you think about, it’s actually not fair to compare an impotent country like Eritrea and its relatively modest 2% expat tax to the monstrous U.S. tax system.

Of course, I’m not endorsing the UN. I dislike bureaucracies of any sort…especially ones with a global reach. But it’s noteworthy that they would even bother to weigh in on the repressive practice of citizenship-based taxation.

Unfortunately, the UN is being opportunistic. They don’t care about the tax burdens of Eritreans. If they did, they’d condemn citizenship-based taxation consistently.

But the UN hasn’t made so much as a peep about the U.S.’s racket. If you listen for it, you’ll only hear the crickets chirping.

This isn’t surprising. Even though it’s clearly a double standard, it’s easy to understand why it exists. As the world’s sole superpower and issuer of the premier reserve currency, the U.S. isn’t accountable to anyone.

No other country has the courage or incentive to call the U.S. out. It’s a heck of a lot easier to push around some small, impoverished African country than it is to stand up to the U.S. juggernaut.

The Exit Tax - A Form of People Controls

Desperate governments always try to control money with capital controls and individuals with people controls.

Take Cuba, for example. After Castro came to power, his government made Cuban citizens apply for exit visas before they left the island. They were not easy to get. The Soviet Union, North Korea, and others have also used similar restrictions.

Preventing people from leaving has always been a hallmark of authoritarianism.

It’s hardly shocking that productive people are fleeing the U.S. tax system. The U.S. government doesn’t like this one bit. Naturally, it would prefer to squeeze every last drop out of its best milk cows.

To keep them from leaving, the U.S. government has imposed a so-called Exit Tax on Americans who renounce their citizenship.

Eduardo Saverin, the billionaire cofounder of Facebook, is a notable example. By renouncing his U.S. citizenship, Saverin escaped paying an estimated $700 million plus in future income and estate taxes. He could not, however, escape the Exit Tax.

For the Exit Tax, the U.S. government deems you to have sold everything you own on the day before you renounce citizenship at a price equal to its “fair market value.” Any appreciation in your investments or home and any deferred income becomes taxable.

The Exit Tax is a big impediment to leaving. But, as the growing number of Americans renouncing their citizenship shows, it’s not always an effective one. I expect the U.S. government to impose much harsher restrictions - more people controls - in the future.

The Canary in the Coal Mine

I think the growing number of Americans renouncing their citizenship is an important sign of what’s to come. It’s never a good thing when a society’s most productive members flee for greener pastures.

Many of these former Americans grew tired of the government treating them as piggy banks for the social program du jour.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the entire U.S. government are broken and bleeding money. Like most governments that get into financial trouble, I think American politicians will keep choosing the easy option…money printing on a massive scale. This has tremendous implications for your financial security.

Politicians are playing with fire and inviting a currency catastrophe. Most people have no idea what really happens when a currency collapses, let alone how to prepare…

How will you protect your savings in the event of a currency crisis? This just-released video will show you exactly how. Click here to watch it now.

 

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Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:35 | 6780174 Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer's picture

All you worthless chickenshits get the fuck outta here. When you're gone it just leaves that much more for me.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:47 | 6780257 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Most frog is endure pot of hot water until is full cook, but occassionally, frog is jump out before is full boil.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:53 | 6780279 FreeShitter
FreeShitter's picture

Poor froggy.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:56 | 6780286 Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer's picture

Worthless chickenshits think America is dead. America is not dead.

Just give up because you ain't nuthin' but a worthless negative thinking spineless chickenshit that thinks everybody else is a worthless negative thinking spineless chickenshit that thinks just like you?

Worthless negative thinking chickenshits can go dig a hole some place else and fuck themselves in it.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:10 | 6780352 FreeShitter
FreeShitter's picture

You mad bro?

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:18 | 6780385 Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer's picture

Have you ever noticed everything on this website has a negative slant to it, bro?

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:24 | 6780411 fudge
fudge's picture

all those reds put you in negative territory.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:16 | 6780588 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

The numbers are far higher than they actually are releasing. This is an embarrassment to the establishment and they are purposely keeping names off the list or very slowing releasing them. They raised the fee to $2,350 just recently to try to stem the outflows.

 

I renounced a few years ago and my name was never on the list. It is also supposed to include people who have given up green cards but they do not seem to be included.

 

I know of so many people online and in person who are not on the list as well for renouncing/relinquishing, let alone the number of green cards being returned.

 

There are many cases of 'silent renunciations' also in which they assume another passport and never return to the US again.

 

If you can escape the boiling pot to something decent elsewhere, I would do it.

 

When an empire declines, it's force is turned inward towards the people. We are seeing it today with the NSA and militarization of the police etc.

The road to totalitarianism is paved with complacency and inaction.

 

 

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:18 | 6780600 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Some additional evidence of underreporting of US citizenship renunciations. Originally posted on Isaac Brock Society on October 7, 2015:

"My sibling and I both just performed our relinquishment at the embassy in Bern, and the time from the first phone call to the actual appointment was only about three weeks. Some interesting notes: ... While I was there, there were four other people that were there for the same reason (to renounce their US citizenship). One or two appeared to be Swiss, one lady who was in tears, was clearly American, and another had apparently been told years ago she had lost her citizenship , but in fact hadn’t and was now trying to renounce. The staff and vice-consul seemed to confused at her situation, but were trying their best to help.
The meeting was on the whole well organised and efficient, and was over quite quickly. We sat down in a room with about four counters, and another six people entered while we were there. One needed information about his spouse working in Switzerland, another wanted a visa to travel to the US, and everyone else was renouncing. Our name was called up by one of the Swiss staffers, who took our documents, and put them in a file for the vice-consul. Soon afterwards, the friendly vice-consul arrived, and we went through the process, reading and signing the necessary documents. He took the time to explain everything to us, and how we could visit the US in future.
The vice-consul mentioned that relinquishments were quite rare, and he had only done about four of them. Renunciations on the other hand, were running at a rate of about three to five a day, every day. If we assume they work 5 days a week, for an average of 49 weeks a year, that would put the total number for Bern at 735-1225 people a year."

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:26 | 6780628 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

This is just for Korea.... so I will leave people to come to their own conclusions.

"

Today, in honour of Liberation Day, South Korea’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) published the 2013 edition of its annual Diplomatic Whitebook. Among other facts and figures, it revealed that 1,991 “reverse migrants” from the U.S. restored their South Korean resident registration and provided proof that they had given up U.S. green cards or citizenship in 2012, slightly down from 2,128 the year before.

This number contrasts sharply with the lists provided by the U.S.’ Internal Revenue Service last year, which contained only 932 names of people of any nationality who gave up U.S. citizenship or green cards. Among those 932, only sixty-three had Korean-language given names — itself the highest total since 1997, but still far below the true number hinted at in other sources. (Ex-green-card holders are only supposed to show up in the IRS’ lists if they held their status “long term”, i.e. for at least eight years; as I discuss later in this post, the IRS seems to think that at least half of ex-green-card-holders meet this criteria.)

"

 - http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/08/15/south-korean-foreign-ministry-199...

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 04:20 | 6781002 cookie nookie
cookie nookie's picture

Giving up on America?  I just don't get it.  These problems can be fixed.  Seems rather unpatriotic.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 10:38 | 6781666 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They can only be fixed through violence. Many are too old, or have families and don't want to subject them to that, or simply live abroad and don't plan to come back for any reason.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 10:44 | 6781702 clooney_art
clooney_art's picture

People who use the system here to create wealth for themselves and flee, while more illegal immigrants pour into this once great land. Win-Win if you ask me, for the central planners.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:10 | 6782574 joeyman9
joeyman9's picture

America is a great idea that can no longer be found in the United States.  Sorta ironic isn't it?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:31 | 6782697 mkucstars
mkucstars's picture

unless you come to the conclusion that the problems won't be fixed. Life is short, I don't blame them and have considered the possibility myself.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:28 | 6781150 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

 Good info adasmos, thanks for posting. Just a note though. Assuming these Bcritters in the consulate work five days a week with two weeks off?

No such luck. Lucky if it is two. They get all local country holidays and all USA holidays off in addition to many other per diem expenses etc.

I was on the place with a guy in Colombia and he had a joke they use down there.

What is the safest country in the world?

Answer: USA. Because it is the only country WITHOUT a US embassy.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:02 | 6780734 Hamsterfist
Hamsterfist's picture

Wait...

There is a fee to renounce your citizenship?  Huh? 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:43 | 6780798 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Yes, it used to be free, then they changed it to $450 and now it is 2,350$ for both renunciation and relinquishment.

 

Not only that, there is the aforementioned exit tax which can be much steeper depending on your net worth.

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:10 | 6780748 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

We respect and understand your position. However, don't expect us to remember you as heroes. Those of us who have decided to stay and fight for our home soil won't remember you. Good luck in your new communities.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:46 | 6780804 duck dodgers
duck dodgers's picture

You're fighting? When? Where?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:39 | 6781115 Lanka
Lanka's picture

Black Friday.  Walmart.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:54 | 6780809 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

Thank you, I appreciate your candor and understand your position.

Usually one gets the mixed and garbled wording of traitor etc.

But I feel that my choice reflects the essence of being an American. Freedom and the right to choose one's path.

I felt my freedoms had been infringed upon and so I made my decision based on the darkness I saw and continue to see today.

Good luck to you as well.

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:50 | 6781179 herkomilchen
herkomilchen's picture

...reflects the essence of being an American. Freedom and the right to choose one's path.

Wonderfully spoken.  The Englishmen who struck out for the new world valued freedom more than any particular piece of dirt.  The British colonists who revolted against their mother country valued freedom more than saluting any particular flag.  Every American immigrant throughout history valued freedom more than staying amidst the cherished friends, family, and culture of his homeland.

Nationalism is not the same as love of freedom.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:17 | 6781092 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

Care to give us a date when this fight begins? I see no bankers or politicians hanging from lamp posts.

Standard Disclaimer: Note to any country that will take me in, I can have my bags packed in 24 hours. Contact me for details on my technological skill sets.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:34 | 6781108 ebear
ebear's picture

"Those of us who have decided to stay and fight for our home soil won't remember you."

Don't confuse the map with the territory.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:20 | 6782620 joeyman9
joeyman9's picture

But who do you fight?  Where is the fight? How do you fight? 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:35 | 6782726 DosZap
DosZap's picture

"But who do you fight?  Where is the fight? How do you fight?"


When the time is right, you will know without asking.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 14:08 | 6782906 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Home soil?  SMH  Try not paying the feudal property taxes on your "home soil" for a couple of years and then get back to me about how it's your "home soil".  LOL

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:26 | 6780773 Vatican_cameo
Vatican_cameo's picture

I get the impression he's not very fond of Chickens either.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:10 | 6780574 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

well then, good thing we have people like you to keep things positive!

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:27 | 6780618 Skiprrrdog
Skiprrrdog's picture

America is not dead, it just smells funny. When you label me, you negate me. What might seem to be negative or cynical by some might also be someone who has an unusually clear sense of perception coupled with an overwhelming compulsion to cut through the crap. Certainly there are negative people on here, but it would be a statistical improbability for all of them to be so. No, I think all of your anger and lashing out is because you dont like the message, so you take it out on the messenger. Or maybe I am wrong, and you are just an average idiot with the IQ of a snow pea...

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:17 | 6782577 nofluer
nofluer's picture

"America is not dead, it just smells funny."

ROTFLMBO!!! Nice. Very nice. :-D

"1,426 people renounced their U.S. citizenship in the third quarter."

Hummm... so what percentage of 315,000,000 is 1426? It's .000004527! That's a lot of zeroes!!!! Wow. It's an honest to gosh EXodust!!! (Ummm... please don't forget to turn your lights off as you leave.)

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:39 | 6782755 DosZap
DosZap's picture

"America is not dead, it just smells funny."

ROTFLMBO!!! Nice. Very nice. :-D

"1,426 people renounced their U.S. citizenship in the third quarter."

Hummm... so what percentage of 315,000,000 is 1426? It's .000004527! That's a lot of zeroes!!!! Wow. It's an honest to gosh EXodust!!! (Ummm... please don't forget to turn your lights off as you leave.)

 

Have to HAVE money to leave,with over a third retired,and over a third on the gub dole, that leaves very few capable of doing anything.The expat deal is for the upper 5%er's.(and most of them are sheeple,the ones leaving are already overseas, and tired  of the tax crap.)

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:38 | 6780786 Bárðarbunga
Bárðarbunga's picture

Arthur Schopenhauer, self professed internet troll...

 

Fuck you.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:23 | 6781225 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Arthur Schopenhauer,

Your response is supportively positive....not.

Misery begets misery Art.

Truth is negative, for those who believe what is not.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 09:14 | 6781346 reinhardt
reinhardt's picture

arthur,

you are clueless

r

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:38 | 6780464 Luc X. Ifer
Luc X. Ifer's picture

Hey chickenshit, do you chickenshit when you chickenshit, or i mean you always chickenshit, chickenshit redneck?!

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:13 | 6780584 Skiprrrdog
Skiprrrdog's picture

Awww. how adorable, someone learned a new word!

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:06 | 6780337 Arthur Schopenhauer
Arthur Schopenhauer's picture

Your attempt at being funny is not funny, and as far as I'm concerned you can go back to wherever you came from Boris a lot of crap.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:09 | 6780348 LowerSlowerDela...
LowerSlowerDelaware_LSD's picture

Obama...  Get off of ZH and go back to the golf course!

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:30 | 6781104 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

You realise the people that are leaving are the extremely productive, and they are taking their money with them.  Telling the best to GTFO is what the Nazis & what the Soviets did to their opposition before they went full authoritarian.  

I gladly left the US, and if this shit gets too much further out of control, I'll be dropping citizenship as well.  

I can imagine before this gets too ridiculous, they'll increase the renunciation fee & drop the minimum asset floor for an "Exit Tax" to 6 digits from $2 M where it sits currently.  Eventually, they'll make it impossible to renounce.  They'll make it damn difficult to get large chunks of money out of the country & demonize anyone who tries to leave for "tax reasons."  

Politically, shitstains such as yourself will drive away those the US needs by taxing them first, and then demonizing them next.  You'll apply your morals to others, and when they don't like it -- you'll do what all quasi-authoritarian governments have done in the past -- go full authoritarian and impose your will on everyone within your realm directly.  

Like I said -- I am glad I left. 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:26 | 6781233 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Time to go LONG on razor wire industry.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 10:42 | 6781691 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"They'll make it damn difficult to get large chunks of money out of the country"

Bitcoin!

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:06 | 6780742 Rancho Texican
Rancho Texican's picture

Not as long as it's not too late to come to Texas and secede.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 04:47 | 6781021 Glasnost
Glasnost's picture

Pretending to be like a communist soviet patriot a few years before the empire's collapse are we?

 

You're funny man :D

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 15:35 | 6783332 Thick Willy
Thick Willy's picture

Yea, where are these people gonna go anyway? Some third world shithole where the nonwhite inhabitants will kill you for $20? Or some small alpine village in Europe where you wake one day and you're surrounded by thousands of blacks and Muslims?

Stay in america. Buy more guns.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:34 | 6780181 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

What kind or retard would do this? This is like having a sex change while you are drunk. 

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:48 | 6780264 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Gender reassignment while under influence of innebriation is at least excuse... what is excuse for do when sober? You are underestimate power of drunken state for explaining of stupidity.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:31 | 6780439 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture

Bruce was starving for attention

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 02:14 | 6780836 piliage
piliage's picture

Some of us like to get kissed before we get fucked. In fact, my taxes in Belgium, one of the most 'socialist' countries on the planet, are lower than they would be if my company was based in New York or California. and don't even get me started on the 'alternative minimum tax' bullshit that my accountant needs to plan months in advance to avoid.

According to my contacts in the embassy there are 5 - 10 people a week renouncing in tiny Belgium. that's 250 a year at least. There are waiting lists in Switzerland and London to renounce.

The U.S. Government is turning into a fascist parasite. I suppose you think Snowden should be tried for treason too? I'll be damned if Myself and my 6 year old son who has the misfortune of being born to a American father will be on the hook for the rest of his life to fund some grand socialist third world vote policy of the multiculturalist assholes in America.

So no, I'm not drunk, but I don't drink lime green Kool-aid either.

Mon, 11/30/2015 - 13:10 | 6856941 sunshine_units
sunshine_units's picture

"What kind of retard would do this?"

 

What kind of person steals from disabled children and the money set up to provide for their care after the children's parents are dead and gone?

 

Scoff all you want, but this is exactly what has happened to an American who is also Canadian who has a nightmare trying to prepare for her eventual demise and the continued care of her disabled American son after she dies. My understanding is that her child has never set foot inside the US, and is only a US citizen because his mother is a US citizen.

 

The woman has renounced her US citizenship. But because her son is developmentally disabled, she is unable to renounce citizenship on his behalf - even though as his guardian she is required to do everything else for him.

 

In Canada, someone with a disabled child is allowed to set up a tax-advantaged fund that provides for the disabled person's care after the parent is gone. And when they do, the Canadian government matches the funds. Don't know if that's one-to-one or not. But the bottom line is, the Canadian taxpayers contribute to the fund for the disabled's care.

 

The IRS considers this some sort of trust or something, and they tax it to high heaven.

 

Because the child in this particular case is American and cannot get rid of that citizenship due to the State Department refusing to allow the parent to make the renunciation for them, the IRS (and therefore the US Government) is stealing from the Canadian taxpayers by taking part of the fund - that the Canadian government is contributing to for his safety and welfare after the parents are gone.

 

And by the way, nobody runs off to Canada to escape the high taxes of the USSA. Canada's tax rate is higher than the IRS rates. But due to the complexity of working-class Americans living in Canada, these Canadians are forced to spend a minimum of $3,000 every year to prove to the IRS that "Sorry, Uncle Sugar, no money for you!" The compliance of Americans living abroad is extremely specialized, and therefore requires a tax specialist. Might as well hire O'Melveny and Myers as your tax attorney expensive! (Jeffrey Skilling's law firm during the Enron trial.)

 

Many of these Canadians who are also American have lived and worked in Canada all their lives. Several were unfortunate enough to have parents who lived so close to the US border that when the mom's labor pains started, the closest hospital was across the border inside the US. Wouldn't you go to the nearest hospital to give birth if you were in tremendous pain of child labor?

 

And as for the money Saverin supposedly saved, how do we really know if he saved any money? He had to pay his taxes up front, unlike Zuckerburg and Hizzoner Bloomberg,, who pay themselves a $1 annual salary (yes, you read that right - one dollar!) and take any earnings in dividend and other tax-advantaged rates that are lower than what working-class Americans pay.

 

It's funny how the IRS wants to make this all an issue of Americans who need to "come clean" as if someone did something wrong when it comes to things like this, but that nobody ever hands newly naturalized citizens a booklet or pamphlet informing them that any bank accounts they have back home in the old country need to be reported to the IRS every year, or that once an American they are an American taxpayer their entire lives unless they renounce the citizenship.

 

Eritrea violates human rights by taxing their citizens worldwide, and the US and UN call it a human rights violation. Uncle Sam does the same thing, and it's the fault of the citizen for daring to have their rights violated. Sounds like an abusive relationship to me!

 

So once the reality of the true nature of the relationship has set in, the victimized spouse has - by renouncing their citizenship - filed for divorce.

 

Nobody expected Rihanna to beg Chris Brown to please, please, PLEASE continue the beatings. So why are so many Americans who renounce victimized and attacked for standing up to their abuser and saying "I'm not going to take this anymore!"???

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:37 | 6780197 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ahhh, look at the glimmer of "Hope" in 2012, then...all systems go, we have lift off.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:54 | 6780454 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Everyone with a pulse will be diving overboard* if it is Jeb vs. Hil next year. We get a chuckle out of the ones who want to renounce citizenship "legally". Here's a tip: If you are really going to do it, choose (don't mess this up, you'll regret it the rest of your days) your utopia and "vacation" there. Ingratiate yourself with the locals, then have a trusted friend back home sell all your possessions in a yard sale. Yard, house, animals- everything must go! Then, instruct them to put the cash in a box marked "cadavers" and send it to your new domicile. Good luck, you'll need it!
*By "diving overboard" we don't mean fleeing, but rather ignoring FEDGOV completely.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 04:12 | 6780991 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

Cash in a box in transit???  .... better to convert to Bitcoin in the USA, and back into your local currency in your new location... just a very short term exposure to BTC exchange rates.

That is one thing that Bitcoin excels at - crossing borders without any posibility of funds being 'frozen' ... you do take an exchange rate risk ...but that will be true whichever way you tackle this problem.

 

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:55 | 6780523 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

Right around the time of the black Jesus' reelection. Imagine that.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:40 | 6780214 sysin3
sysin3's picture

I hear bitching, not solutions. Where you gonna go ? Vanuatu, maybe, except for that "destroyed by cyclone" thing.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:45 | 6780249 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You're clearly not a capitalist, buy low-sell high ;-)

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:05 | 6780325 sysin3
sysin3's picture

Utter nonsense, and totally unsupported assumption. You don't know anything about me.

I favor capitalism over any other economic system.

But not unfettered capitalism, nor crony capitalism.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:55 | 6780522 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

Unfettered capitalism would work fine in conjunction with unfettered 2nd amendment.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:52 | 6780704 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

Ha-ha "unfettered capitalism". Please show me an example. 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 03:34 | 6780962 rockface
rockface's picture

What the hell is "unfetterred capitalism"?  Is there too much free commerce between individuals?  The problem today is "unfettered socialism".

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:04 | 6781133 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

This assertion is idiotic.

And you know it.

The top 1% dont own 90% of wealth (or whatever) because of socialism.

Examine your premises.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 09:03 | 6781311 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

True. But it's also true they don't own 90% of wealth because of free-market capitalism. Just look at any socialist country, and you will see that they too....miraculously....have a 1% that owns 90% of everything.

What's the common thread between these two seemingly unrelated philosophies?

The leveraged force of government guns on behalf of the interests of the 1%.

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:46 | 6781123 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You can't have "crony" anything without the state my friend ;-)

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:25 | 6781147 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

To politely disagree here, nmewn - organized crime isnt a state, they arent socialists, and they function within their economic purview in a 'crony' type manner.

Look, socialism aside - you can not possibly think that pure capitalism in the real world leads to anything but conspiracy, cronyism, and greater and greater concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands.

I support capitalism with some firewalls because no human system is perfect, and while the debt money system is a large part of why, the rich get richer because they have more capital in the first place.

It seems to me, fwiw, that in the zeal to hate 'socialism' (whatever that means) all sorts of apologetics are produced for the results. Its never capitalism and human greed and how interest on amalgamated capital works *qua system* - it is *defined out of capitalism* in order to preserve 'capitalism' as an idealized (in the philosophical sence of ideals) perfect and holy system.

This isnt an argument for socialism.

This is an argument that capitalism is not perfect, never will be, and has in fact been what has caused 'oligarchical collectivism' in a roughly Orwellian sense.

To me the political system is primary. Maximum individual liberty. But you'll agree that I can not possibly claim that were everyone free to do as theyd like we would have good results. We recognize for example the other guys nose as the place where my right to swing a fist ends. Easy enough.

So, and Im not trying to convert anyone to how I look at it, this is just how I look at it - the issue is then does 'pure capitalism' in the real world maximize individual freedom? Socialism surely does not.

But neither does any other monetary system which will produce cronyism or mafia behavior.

Calling these, or calling *all* or even most of these ill effects 'crony capitalism' is rhetorical sleight of hand.

Its the result of capitalism and human psychology.

It can not exist in pure form without massive eventual wealth and political power disparities.

just some half baked thoughts, and just my sense of the thing.

I think people, not necessarily you, often think in false binaries - its either A or B. But these are just constructs. There is a spectrum of possibilities, and I think a better world is one where rich own more and more, control more and more, while human beings starve and people die of treatable cancers for lack of money - while there are Soroses and Gateses and Rothschilds with amounts of money so obscene they can topple democracies, or simply buy them.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:02 | 6781198 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well no one said it's obligatory to agree ;-)

However, government itself is a "social" construct.

So, (as individuals) collectivists & socialists have to realize many "like me" have gone as far as we're willing to go down that road by recognizing (and respecting it's monopoly on force. otherwise known as law)...AS LONG AS...it (and collectivists) don't abuse it and us in the practicing of it.

It doesn't matter to me if it's an oligarch or corporations who's thieving me or usurping my liberty or the "democratic collective"...they're still thieves and I find the situation intolerable.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 09:36 | 6781423 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Just wanted to share with both of you what I learned from my economics prof back in the 1970's. He was doing research on game theory - a very new area in Eco at the time - and while he was definitely not a Marxist or collectivist of any sort, he was not sanguine about the future under capitalism. 

His research showed that under capitalism, all the money is eventually concentrated in very few hands. It isn't the result of a grand scheme or anything; as he explained it, someone has to get lucky at some point, just as if you had a coin-flipping contest. Someone would flip 20 heads in a row at one point. In a capitalist society that means you (for example) invested in GM and not Studebaker, in RCA and not Dumont, etc. You get rich, and buy better education, food, health care, etc. for your family. They start out with all those advantages, plus money. In a fair game against others, they have a big edge at the outset, and while the literature is full of stories of rich kids burned out on drugs, booze, what have you, the reality is most rich kids start rich, and get richer. Eventually, they 'win' the game, and all the money is concentrated in a very few hands (the 0.1% of populist lore). 

"Well, what happens then?" I asked as a 21-year old junior. He just smiled, and said "Forcible redistribution!". 

Nothing I've seen in the last 40 years has done anything to convince me he was wrong. 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:18 | 6781218 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Down arrowed you (sorry) because of the mafia example.

That actually proves the point that the big time crooks get "really big" because they use the government (for example, in Nevada pwning the Gaming Commision, or buying Harry Reid) to bend things to their advantage...now Adelson has made enough to make the highest bid on Presidential candidates like the Rubio creep.

same thing in Miami with the Mafia, and everywhere there is "organized crime" - eventually it makes the transition to the real bigtime through bribes and government sweetheart deals...

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 10:25 | 6781619 piliage
piliage's picture

What's funny about this is Schumpeter and Marx both agreed with this premise, albeit with different outcomes. Whilst Marx thought that the workers would 'own' production, Shumpeter was probably more correct in his assessment that capitalism's collapse will come about as majorities vote for the creation of a welfare state and place restrictions upon entrepreneurship that will burden and eventually destroy the capitalist structure.

Schumpeter emphasizes this throughout "Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy".

So when one sees those two asshats at MU, Melissa Click and Janna Basler, I see Schumpeter's prophecy coming to fruition.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 10:44 | 6781705 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"unfettered capitalism, nor crony capitalism"

The former is the only form of capitalism that there is, and the latter is just fascism, and has nothing to do with capitalism.

I think what you REALLY mean to say is that you are a socialist.

Which tells me that you are an idiot, and that I am wasting my time with this reply.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:26 | 6780630 James TraffiCan't
James TraffiCan't's picture

Vanuatu and the Ol' Faithful Volcano. Beam me up...Scotty! 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:45 | 6780799 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

At least with the volcano, you know what is coming, and that it is going to destroy everything in its path. Statists think The State is their friend.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:43 | 6780237 uhland62
uhland62's picture

It's still a small number compared to the size of the country. Making them fill in forms even if they do not have to pay anything, means they always have access to information where they live and where they work, so they can milk information out of them.

Expat tax for US and Eritrea, imperial measurements for US and Zimbabwe, fine company. 

Now to Snowden, he can't fill in forms or they would know where he is. They cancelled his passport but they will have no shame to demand taxes from him. 

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:47 | 6780259 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You assume everyone uses their real identity, how quaint ;-)

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:51 | 6780503 uhland62
uhland62's picture

Got me here, I am naive. I was indeed assuming everyone uses their real identity because I had thought that only organised crims and agency staff have access to new identities. I did not know they might make up a significant number, thank you, I like learning. But what happens when they get back to the homeland, wouldn't they have to account for their hole in the CV? Maybe they have the right password. I am not an employer but I would probably not hire people with US citizenship if the likelihood of new identity is high. People with connections like that I like to keep at two arms lengths.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:25 | 6780626 August
August's picture

In the 20th Century world (remember that?), having two identities was pretty easy to set up, with just a little work; but these days it looks pretty difficult to accomplish, at least for those who don't work for the state, or other large criminal organization. 

FWIW a friend of mine has US and Canadian citizenship, under two different names.  Other than his collecting welfare benefits in both countries simultaneously, though, it hasn't been much of an advantage.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:43 | 6781119 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I would like to go into why you assume anyone who takes on a different identity must be a bad individual, a criminal as you say, for just a moment.

We are both doing it at this very moment (if only informally) and we are neither criminals nor government officials, yet we are writing to each other as nmewn & uhland62 aren't we? ;-)

Street smarts is telling us that it's in our best interest to do so. We are avoiding having "the state" come knock on our door and ask us about our comments here, yes? Or is it that, we say things here we wouldn't say in public? I can assure you anyone who knows me personally would know nmewn as ______.

Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of reasons for doing so and yes ONE of those reasons could be because one is a criminal but it can also be someone trying to escape "criminals" themselves (whether the criminal operates under the imprimatur and/or color of "law" or not...lol) they can be government officials themselves fleeing a dictator and his cronies/assassins who have taken over his country, they can be someone hiding from an abusive spouse or hiding their child from an abusive spouse or someone refusing to pay an obligation put upon them unfairly or someone who simply made one bad decision in their life and it's still dogging them wherever they go (because of their identity) and they just want to break free from the past.

There is a lot of reasons and not all of them necessarily bad, keep an open mind about it.

+1

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:41 | 6781164 gonetogalt
gonetogalt's picture

Step one: Gain citizenship in new land. Do not request passport at that time.

Step two. Using residency papers of new nationality legally change name.

Step three: Aquire passport in new name as citizen of ______.

Practice reasonable security protocols in keeping financial, internet, and communications transactions sterile.

Live with head down awaiting next shitstorm...

"Beware the Lamb"

 

 

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:49 | 6780255 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

This concept is imho one of the least intelligent by-products of the Post-911 world.  It is no doubt put forward by people with a lot of faith and little travel experience.  Why not disappear into your own country?  You know the language and argots, are the right color, can handle the courts and cops, do not have a potential mob ready to roust you and take your property.  Much of the world is in domestic chaos.  The U.S. is a bastion of stability and the environment is much cleaner than many places.  Doomers need to cool it.  And I'm a doomer.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:53 | 6780276 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I have found the cops in Santo Domingo much more "honest" than here, they're pretty straight forward about they're asking/demanding a bribe. I found it quite refreshing, instead of the whole "rule of law" cash-to-the-state-robber-revenue-model for "the public safety" employed around here.

They cut out the middle man ;-)

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:47 | 6780261 Dr. Bonzo
Dr. Bonzo's picture

You guys keep babbling about a movement that is absolutely negligible in size. There are literally more robberies in a weekend in New York than renounciations over the course of a year. Spend more time doing articles about petty crime in New York.

Wake me up when renounciations hit 1 million a year.

 

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:24 | 6780413 kiwimail
kiwimail's picture

The number quoted is just as false as all other statistics put out by .gov and the show is just getting started.  IRS puts out a quarterly report with the names of persons who have renounced that quarter.  My name is not on the list 3 quarters after after I renounced and I know other people who aren't on the list.  State department is so far behind in processing the applications it takes months just to get an appoint to renounce at many foreign consulates. I would bet the actual number will exceed 100,000 this year. Some US consulates in Canada arent taking appointments at all until after July 2016.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:59 | 6780533 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

I renounce the Govt. not the land I am native to.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:55 | 6780816 techpriest
techpriest's picture

Could we give the space around DC back to Britain? And the people on it?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:15 | 6780589 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

According to Steve Martin -- a wild & crazy guy -- if you invoke the Old Testament and say "I divorce thee" three times, then you are divorced.

Maybe it works the same for renouncing citizenship.   ;-)

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:56 | 6780818 techpriest
techpriest's picture

I thought that was in Islam?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:52 | 6780706 InanimateCarbonRod
InanimateCarbonRod's picture

True dat.  Statistically insignificant number of losers.  

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 11:07 | 6781809 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Comparing the number of renunciations to the total population isn't the right metric. Comparing it to the number of US citizens living abroad is.  You can't give up your citizenship while still living in the US, after all. As it is, it looks like the current loss rate according to official counts is about 1/2000 per year, or 0.05%. But assuming asdasmos is right, and 1000 citizens are renouncing per year in Bern alone. I couldn't find stats for Americans living in Switzerland, but it must be less than 8000. Admittedly, a lot of that could be overflow coming from neighboring countries like Germany that are apparently backed up.  Even if they were ALL from Germany, and Germany didn't process ANY themselves, that is 1% a year.  That is astonishing.

The population of Americans living abroad is exploding, by the way. It's doubled since 1999: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_diaspora

The trend of expats renouncing is still exponential, even according to government figures, though not as exponential as the nominal renunciations would suggest. If we were losing a million a year, that would be almost 20% of US citizens living abroad, were it to happen this year.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:49 | 6780266 FreeShitter
FreeShitter's picture

I'd trade mine in for a residence in Sochi.....fuck yeah.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:50 | 6780267 ToSoft4Truth
ToSoft4Truth's picture

Shoot each one.

President Bush said, "You're either with us or against us..."

With Us or Against Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-23kmhc3P8U

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:59 | 6780530 l8apex
l8apex's picture

You're using Bush's logic to make your point?  Seriously?  

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:23 | 6780616 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Wonder if he is going to change his quote when he makes it from his bugout place in south america?

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:50 | 6780269 Dragon HAwk
Dragon HAwk's picture

Somebody has to stay behind and man the Guillotines....

 this is going to be one interesting show.. it's just taking it's good old time getting rolling.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:12 | 6780364 booboo
booboo's picture

If it gets to the "french revolution" moment you don't want to be anywhere around the crowds lest one point at you and demand your head. For a peak at the type of crazy we are discussing go watch the crazy bitch professor trying to get the mob to drag off the school reporter. That said, I agree with the sentiment that getting lost in america is the best bet. There is a huge difference between making examples of a few "crazy people and rounding up and fucking with 50 million normal folk who don't like their cheese moved but if .Gov wants to test that theory let them learn the hard way. If they think politics is hard well like Clint said; "dyin aint no way to make a livin"

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 22:58 | 6780297 bthunder
bthunder's picture

Unthinking Americans are puzzled when they read about the increasing number of people renouncing their citizenship.

Because, thanks in part to the posts like this one, they do not realize that 800,000 people became US citizens during the same time period that 3,000 dropped it.  When one is presented with all the facts instead of just a few cherry-picked ones, even the most unthinking americans are no longer puzzled.

 

 


Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:09 | 6780347 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

800,000 poor migrants versus 3,000 of the wealthiest off-shore-ers who 'retire' in the Caribbean? Maybe you should think about that for a little while.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:31 | 6780648 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Perhaps more powerful to the discussion is the ability to funnel money through businesses can reduce taxes far more than escaping the US.  By forming corporations and then having most of your earnings go through the corporations a smart tax Jockey could achieve whatever taxes for a rich guy could take away for the average guy.

Now, FB founders and families with international money from large businesses are different.  As are those that were born in the US but have never lived here:  why deal with the hassle....

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:56 | 6780711 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

No reason it can't be both... and probably by the same folks.

But yeah. Paul Martin (exPM of Canada,) while Minister of Finance, famously said that if one pays taxes in Canada, one should seek the services of a new accountant (paraphrasing.) So no disagreement there.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 02:27 | 6780863 piliage
piliage's picture

Sure. You run a multi million dollar holding company with IP licensing or assets invested, great. Otherwise, for an SME the accounting costs and multiple jurisdictional business filings don't add up. I can't pay 100k in fees on 250k in profit, it doesn't make sense.

Don't believe the hype. Hiding money costs money, particularly if you run a payroll and need to manage cash flow.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:06 | 6780332 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

LOL, just walk away.  I decide if I want to leave and under what terms.  Willingness to refuse come from the end of the barrel of a gun, just as government enforcement does.  They may ultimately win but I'VE decided how, what, and where my life goes.  THAT'S called freedom.  One must simply be willing to make the choice.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:04 | 6780550 Skiprrrdog
Skiprrrdog's picture

Fucking *a*...I live about 80 miles from Mexico...I could walk there if I had to. Just had another houseful move into the house accross the street from me, I say great, keep them coming. By the time I am ready to go to Mexico, most of them should be here ;/

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:06 | 6780335 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

"Many of these former Americans grew tired of the government treating them as piggy banks for the social program du jour."

Trickle up, and tip-toe out. Capital flight is always the end result just before the crash. The downwards spiral continues.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:35 | 6780346 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"It’s never a good thing when a society’s most productive members flee for greener pastures."

And spewing lies is the worst thing, eh?

The 1426 out of 325,000,000 are hardly this society's most productive members.

Perhaps you have an agenda to sell.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:10 | 6780351 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Let my people go...Let my people go...

Free Jon Corzine!

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:12 | 6780368 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

. . . should i stay or should i go now? . . . . you'd better go now, go now, go now . . .

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:19 | 6780391 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Sorry team.

Despite all the raging, if you are white/black/Asian and American you are a target anywhere else you go in this world.

Listen up.  There are worse things than paying taxes.

If you are paying taxes you are doing well and/or you need a more creative accountant.

These jokers giving up their US citizenship are deluded thinking other more socialist or banana republic polities are just going to let them live in a castle on the hill while times get tougher.

It's fun to prep for the Apocalypse.  It's a complete bummer to actually gear up with crew and convoy to visit the bank or market.

Duel citizen - cool.

Leaping into the deep end of the pool? Stupid.

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:33 | 6780654 August
August's picture

"Those who talk, don't know.  Those who know, don't talk."

- Somebody or other

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:00 | 6780731 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Lao Tsu — 'Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.'

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:41 | 6780673 booboo
booboo's picture

Renounce your citizenship and fucking stay, what the fuck are they going to do to you? deport you? to where? is there a law you have to be a citizen of anywhere?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:04 | 6780738 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

"what the fuck are they going to do to you? deport you?"

ROFLMAO - That's brilliant!

The black-site prison beckons, though.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 06:29 | 6781103 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

So if enough of us form micronations, and then we merge into one macronation, how much of the US land mass can we potentially grab?

Standard Disclaimer: And only land owners will be able to vote...Priceless!

 

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 11:12 | 6781858 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You have to renounce at a US consulate or embassy, and you have to have legal residency somewhere else.

You can do that, then have your legal residency stripped from you, and be stateless, but that is no way to be in this world, unless you just love the idea of living in an airport terminal for the rest of your life.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:25 | 6780398 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

Oh stop it.

3000 people renouncing. Tens of millions waiting to get in.

Let's see a worldwide list of renunciations and then we'll know who's running a shithole and who isn't.

Fucking lying, misleading piece of shit shill who is only here to flog his particular brand of Kick America So I Can Make Money bullshit.

Worse than fucking bankers.  

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:34 | 6780452 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Even the best shithole is still a shithole.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:44 | 6780478 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

True, but at least its a popular shithole.  Good place to pick up chicks.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:53 | 6780490 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Dumb fat chicks with issues, maybe. Easy targets. I prefer a challenge. ;)

Besides, popularity has never been a measure of quality. Bieber, Cyrus, et al.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 10:06 | 6781544 BernankeHasHemo...
BernankeHasHemorrhoids's picture

American chicks? You gotta be kidding me. Those fucking heifers. Only a guy who has never been to South America or Asia thinks fat feminazi American chicks are worth banging.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:09 | 6780546 voltrader66
voltrader66's picture

delete

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 09:48 | 6781479 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

Amazing you can't see it - 3,000 people a year who probably pay $50k in taxes (I'm freakin' poor, and I pay $10k) - $150 million gone from Treasury every year. 

1,000,000 new people coming in, most of whom can't/won't/don't want to work at $20k each in gov't services - $20 billion added to gov't bill, every year. 

Yep, sounds like a sustainable process to me. 

'course I learned my arithmetic at the same schools that teach us central banking and climate change, so it might be suspect. 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 20:51 | 6781879 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

Tarabel

The point of the article is that

those who set the bar high and who may find it personally practical, may wish to consider forfeitng US citizenship and relocating outside the USA.

 

As you point out, there are many places outside the USA which are so miserable

that obtaining US citizenship may still seem a low bar marginal improvement despite such as the increasing police surveillance and militarism, war crimes, taxation, worsening economy, rule by financial oligarchy, etc.

Additionally, there are  drug gangsters, corrupted quislings, would-be mercenaries, and common street criminals,

who also wish to come to the US because they anticipate fitting right in.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:23 | 6780405 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Also, you can't own guns anywhere else quite like you can in the USofA.

I bought one 2 months ago; another one 2 weeks ago.  And another one on the way in another 2 weeks.  Other than mag capacity and a very few other constraints which are not that important to me ... anything I want.

How many countries the men would give their eyeteeth for that opportunity.

I can walk into a sporting goods store and buy as much of whatever caliber ammo I want, cash money.  They look at my DL because they have to verify I'm over 18 (lol).

Quote I read the other day:

"An unarmed man can only run from evil; and evil is not defeated by running from it".

Also, you guys are dying for meaningful community.  I know you are.  If you want a community of anything but helpless sheep, stay where the guns are.

Good luck, we are all going to need it.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:32 | 6780446 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

If you think a shotgun, a hunting rifle, and a pistol is any defense against a military-trained SWAT team... remember Ruby Ridge?

Owning weapons is an excellent defense against looters, but it just puts a target on your back when dealing with gov't.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:41 | 6780472 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

I also remember Lexington and Concord.

"... a most vigorous retreat -- twenty miles in three hours -- scarce to be paralleled in history; the feeble Americans, who pelted them all the way, could scarce keep up."

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:45 | 6780480 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Don't get me wrong, if everyone had a gun, nobody would need one, but militias simply have no chance against the military-industrial complex. It ain't 1776 anymore (unfortunately.) Military research is forty years ahead of anything we know. That didn't make a difference before the 20th century, but it is now quite significant. Besides, tactics have also changed. They won't confront you directly, they'll starve you out.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:10 | 6781136 herkomilchen
herkomilchen's picture

You are posing basic issues, in simplistic fashion, in isolation.  But the topic of asymmetric warfare wherein lesser armed, less numerous opponents can prevail has been and continues to be thoroughly studied by military strategists.  It is a lot more complex than just who has the most resources or most powerful weapons.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 07:37 | 6781156 Colonel
Colonel's picture

Ever heard of Fourth-generation warfare?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:18 | 6781219 RockySpears
RockySpears's picture

If "Military research is forty years ahead of anything we know"  then how come the US has lost/is losing every engagement in the last 70 years or so?

 

Just asking.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:44 | 6781254 Secret Weapon
Secret Weapon's picture

"militias simply have no chance against the military-industrial complex".  I guess that is why Iraq and Afghanistan have been such a rocking success.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:47 | 6781259 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

Sadly, I think the whole "gun control" effort by TPTB is a sham, a boogie-man which they resurrect to scare the populace, theatre in which they are foiled at the last moment so the US can keep their guns.

The reason is very simple, as was just stated on this thread. Gun ownership is no threat to TPTB - in fact, it acts as a pacifier, making the populace think that they still have the means of overthrowing those in power.

Gun ownership is good for protecting your home against armed robbers perhaps, but against the government virtually useless against the modern militarized (and now Federalized) Police State we live in...

 

 

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:46 | 6780483 Dakota Kid
Dakota Kid's picture

 

If you think A shotgun, A hunting rifle, and A pistol is any defense against a military-trained SWAT team..

How about 350 million shotguns,  hunting rifles, and pistols against SWAT teams?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:14 | 6780504 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

SWAT teams will have food. Numbers don't mean much in the face of tactics. Seen "300"?

But of course this implies that the black-market is closely tied to to the notion of liberty. Who does it make free and who does it enrich? Is it the same people, or is it a dichotomous (Hegelian) illusion? The elite make money off of everything, good or bad.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:51 | 6781275 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

One of the points of outlawing cash is to also shut down black markets...

it will be only partially successful, but that is probably all they need.

Allowing a small black market to exist will probably be in the interest of the Deep State (such as the curio shop in Nineteen-Eighty-Four).

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:20 | 6780564 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

"Yea darlin', gonna make it happen
Take the world in a love embrace
Fire all of your guns at once
And explode into space"

If you can get all 350M guns to fire in unison, and not at each other, you've done something Ron Paul couldn't do, and that Bernie Sanders won't be able to do.

More power to you, and best of luck with that. You know as well as I do that the SWAT teams will have their armed supporters, too.

Besides, you'll just be shooting brainwashed 20 year olds who think they're rooting out the 'bad guys.' I'll stand with you brother, but I know I will be the Custer to their government savages.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:57 | 6780817 Vatican_cameo
Vatican_cameo's picture

  How many Civilians are former trained Military personnel?  I'm willing to bet they outnumber the SWAT guys.  This is what's driving the big push to tag all returning Vets as PTSD victims (with no legal recourse), they legally can't possess firearms.  Oklahoma Militia has over 50,000 members.  I'm thinking they have a good amount of well trained members.  Members that also train everyone else in current Military tactics.  That's just one State.  When these "Alphabet Agency" heroes come under fire, how many are going to be thinking about their families and wondering at what point they "Signed up for this Shit".  Meanwhile a Militia member will die with a smile on his face if he can fill a few body-bags before he gets dropped.  SWAT isn't engaging on principle, it's for money.  Who do you think will have the upper hand? 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 08:59 | 6781297 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

+1 for the "Born to be Wild" reference. Ah Steppenwolf, where have all the years gone?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 13:34 | 6782715 DosZap
DosZap's picture

"+1 for the "Born to be Wild" reference. Ah Steppenwolf, where have all the years gone?"

Unfortunately the singer, writer of that record when he got a few years on him turned into  a raving Left wing Democrat,

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:25 | 6780625 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

Be a nice move to get the swat guys on our side, eh?

A nicer move would be getting the fbi et al to arrest people (McCain) who should have been arrested long ago. Cheney, too.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 11:17 | 6781900 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can't turn a wolf cub against the owner of the udder that they suckle from.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:56 | 6780517 kappal_toba_dhu...
kappal_toba_dhurr_ne_thook's picture

It doesn't matter.  You see, deekra(dear), for  many MEN, a  big gun is a substitute for a small you-know-what.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:56 | 6780526 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

...car?

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:19 | 6780604 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

You're sharp tonight.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:22 | 6780613 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Don't prick yourself.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:25 | 6780617 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Yep, the inverse is true as well. That's why I carry a tiny little Glock 42.......cause I'm blessed with a barrel longer than Dirty Harry's 44 Magnum!

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:40 | 6780640 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Speaking of prick...

A Star Wars nerd with a big dick?!? There is such a thing as over-compensating, you know.

Would that be a 6 1/2 or a 8 3/8 inch barrel?

"In the end, whether we're talking rifle or shotgun or handgun, barrel length is a balance between the longer gun's greater accuracy (at least in terms of iron sights), and the higher velocity it may afford, and the distinctly greater handling ease and convenience, especially in tight brush or other close quarters, that comes with a shorter gun."

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:52 | 6780510 Sages wife
Sages wife's picture

It seems ever clearer that the true purpose of the border drone will not be to keep people out. $156,000 for your share.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 01:34 | 6780783 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Hell, you can buy a Canadian passport [pdf] for 10k.

Wed, 11/11/2015 - 23:59 | 6780532 kappal_toba_dhu...
kappal_toba_dhurr_ne_thook's picture

We left USA for good and have never been happier.  The country is over-rated, under-funded, and in layman's terms, just plain SUCKS!  

Forget all the BS about it being just as bad or worse any place else.  USA is perhaps one of the worst places to be, should you not be filthy rich.

Get out now while you still can.  

 

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:17 | 6780595 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

We're happy that you're happy and we'd like everyone who agrees with you to be happy too.

Once all the servile deadwood is out of the way, we might be able to whip up a little home brewed happiness ourselves.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:17 | 6780596 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

The IRS.....the new version of the East German VOPO border guards.

Thu, 11/12/2015 - 00:26 | 6780629 onmail1
onmail1's picture

Yeah sure, and also dont live there too, becuz the nuclear war is coming becuz of stupid obamma, and you wouldn't like to become a glowing person nor would you be able to see yor children to be.

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