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Snowden Vindicated As Judge Slams "Unconstitutional, Orwellian" NSA Bulk Spying
Submitted by Claire Bernish via TheAntiMedia.org,
On Monday, a federal judge ordered a halt to the NSA’s bulk metadata collection program in a reiteration and confirmation of a previous ruling that found the practice “unconstitutional” — and even “Orwellian.”
“This court simply cannot, and will not, allow the government to trump the Constitution merely because it suits the exigencies of the moment,” stated Washington, D.C. District Court Judge Richard Leon in his mordant 43-page ruling.
Edward Snowden immediately hailed the decision, pointing out significant passages from the court to his millions of Twitter followers. Of particular importance — and, indeed, at the heart of both known and potentially unknown domestic spy programs — remains the impossible reckoning between Fourth Amendment protections and the government’s claims of a national security imperative.
“Moved by whatever momentary evil has aroused their fears, officials — perhaps even supported by a majority of citizens — may be tempted to conduct searches that sacrifice the liberty of each citizen to assuage the perceived evil. But the Fourth Amendment rests on the principle that a true balance between the individual and society depends on the recognition of ‘the right to be let [sic] alone — the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men,’” the ruling stated, with emphasis added by Snowden.
In another tweet, the whistleblower summarized the ruling: “Judge rejects government claim that so long as you aren’t targeted individually, dragnet searches of your life are OK.”
Judge rejects govt claim that so long as you aren't targeted individually, dragnet searches of your life are ok. pic.twitter.com/1tscV1hEXT
— Edward Snowden (@Snowden) November 9, 2015
Though Leon’s judgment arrives mere weeks before metadata collection would naturally end under the USA Patriot Act’s Section 215 upon implementation of the newly passed USA Freedom Act, he emphasized potential implications of any undue delay in bringing such spying to a close, stating:
“In my December 2013 Opinion, I stayed my order pending appeal in light of the national security interests at stake and the novelty of the constitutional issues raised. I did so with the optimistic hope that the appeals process would move expeditiously. However, because it has been almost two years since I first found that the NSA’s Bulk Telephony Metadata Program likely violates the Constitution and because of the loss of constitutional freedoms for even one day is a significant harm […] I will not do that today.”
In other words, the judge harshly repudiated the government’s already poorly disguised emphasis on national security to justify bulk collection as wholly secondary to the individual’s right to privacy under the Constitution. Leon’s 2013 ruling was struck down in August this year, when an appeals court found the plaintiff in Klayman v. Obama had not established the legal standing necessary to dispute the constitutionality of the NSA program. Once amended appropriately, the judge was able to make a ruling on the original case and issue an injunction to halt bulk collection.
In this ruling, Leon sharply admonished the appeals court for its reversal, saying:
“Because the loss of constitutional freedoms is an ‘irreparable injury’ of the highest order, and relief to the two named plaintiffs would not undermine national security interests, I found that a preliminary injunction was not merely warranted — it was required.” [emphasis by the judge]
Seemingly irritated at the insult of the government maintaining its position on the necessity of bulk collection while ignoring the preceding twenty-two months to find less invasive means to achieve the same goal, Leon searingly stated:
“To say the least, it is difficult to give meaningful weight to a risk of harm created, in significant part, by the Government’s own recalcitrance.”
Pointing out the painfully obvious, Leon derided fictitious claims the government needs bulk data collection at all, considering the program thwarted exactly zero terror attacks throughout its entire duration. In rebuttal to claims the contentious NSA program remains reasonably effective, the judge flatly stated:
“This is a conclusion I simply cannot reach given the continuing lack of evidence that the Program has ever actually been successful as a means of conducting time-sensitive investigations in cases involving imminent threats of terrorism.”
Pulling no punches, Leon concludes with a scathing challenge to the naïveté and blind acceptance Congress mistakenly presumed the public and court would give the contentiously invasive program:
“To be sure, the very purpose of the Fourth Amendment would be undermined were this court to defer to Congress’s determination that individual liberty should be sacrificed to better combat today’s evil.”
Employing linguistic subtlety which, at times, borders on a verbal smackdown, Judge Richard Leon brilliantly sent the NSA, Congress, and rest of the government a message that couldn’t be denied this second time around: Nobody buys your bullshit.
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STAY AWAY FROM NAIL GUNS!
He probably comes back to USA under trump. Lauded as hero.
http://hedgeaccordingly.com/2015/07/eric-holder-possibility-exists-of-de...
Whoa, someone didnt get the memo. Avoid balconies, hot tubs and aviation.
Not to mention bathtubs, knives, and the rooftop of every JPM building worldwide.
Dead man walking.......
RIPS
NSA spokesperson Mordechai Wankerstein says that the agency had "anticipated" the judge's ruling...
This should be just another in one ear and out the other judicial opinion.
So you are thinking clean head-shot by sniper then?
It's gonna take something to the effect of one of these judges getting executed on the courthouse steps, by men in black with yellow NSA on the back, on the 6 o'clock news, during the oscars, on youtube, facefucked, twatted,and instaclammed around the fucking world before shit will start to change.
and then the herd will think it is a new Chris Angel gig...
aw fuck it all.
Which "Constitution " Mr. Executive Administrator aka "Judge. The Constitution For The United States For America or the Criminal Fraud version of the UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. ?
Yeah right, good one... I wouldn't weep and lament for his "suicide" just yet. Do you people really think a DC judge gets to that level in a totally corrupt system by being Mr. Constitution Upholder? No, he's playing his part. This is all entertainment for the masses. Just another con to make them believe there's a thing called judicial oversight.
this was in a grisham novel
the judge is later found in a mens room, seedy side of town
Bottom of an outhouse in a farmers field?
Meanwhile, back at the TSA, "Grope'em while ya can, boys...."
So now the Telecoms Companies will do it for them, supplemented by GCHQ data swaps as necessary?
With Cameron's new legislation in the UK, GCHQ might be able to add a bonus of the entire web history. Cameron's brave new world is truly a dystopian nightmare. All just to 'protect" you, of course.
A few good men.,.
Friend of mine went the hot tub route. Fuckin' sad.
I know this quote well. I've used it in several of my papers in my battle against government tyranny. It's from the case Olmstead v. United States (1928). To me it is as powerful as anything from the annals of American Jurisprudence and it still sends shivers down my spine when I read it.
It is the fundamental tenet, the very essence of being American: just leave me the fuck alone.
I am Chumbawamba.
Snowden is my personal hero. In fact, I love him so much so that I want him to come to my house and have sex with my sister. Yay Snowden!
I ordered a new cellphone last week and ported my old phone number over to a new carrier. The next day I received an e-mail from a GPS location app I had installed on my old phone asking me if I was all right. It said it noticed I had been off the grid for 24 hours. Apps that care. What will they think of next?
Those were petty drug dealers. Perhaps, these days, more lamentable a loss than a "Judge" of Admiralty Law.
Has this judge read the 40+/- page Windows 10 documentation outlining the exclusive rights of Microsoft 3rd parties to user data and transfer of same, and Microsoft's local control over computer hardware components and software drivers including the users' webcam?
Opt out of anything in Windows 10 and immediately you lose hardware functionality as well as access to needed software and drivers, all run through the Hotel California "Store" in the Microsoft cloud. Accept all unconditionally or else discover the store has been shuttered without recourse. In nine months you won't be able to go back to Windows 7 and there will be no way out. But hey, The Cloud will take care of every possible need for you. It's free shit almost forever and you'll never have to download anyone else's software or worry about defective malware ever again.
One man of principle and integrity can hold back an immense tide of evil.
Sure. And Kennedy thought he was actually the President.
BTW: Did Mossad pull off Fukushima? Read the argument. It carries weight.
http://www.henrymakow.com/theargumentfukushimasabotage.html
"Former NSA analyst, Jim Stone, argues that there was no mag 9.0 earthquake. The tsunami was caused by nuclear bombs in the sea and the Fukushima explosion and meltdown was caused by mini-nukes hidden in cameras installed by an Israeli security firm. The motive: punish Japan for offering to enrich Iranian uranium and straying from Illuminati diktat. This website reserves judgment but offers this introduction by James Farganne in the spirit of free discussion...."
There were no warning sirens and NO STRUCTURAL DAMAGE TO BUILDINGS IN THE AREA, completely inconsistent with a 9.0 quake. Why were the people caught unawares?
hamF, i've read stone, especially after the event, & i believe the ussa, israhell, & GE were using fukus as a site where they could produce nuclear warheads. that's why when the russia volunteered to assist with the clean up they were rudely dismissed, everyone knew what the site had been---& i'm willing to credit israhell with smart bondesque capabilities, i don't think israhell can create an earthquake of that size (or any); (even though nuttyhateus has sufficient hubris to believe he may). although if the ussa sanctioned israhell's rogue action (& given waswas anything is now possible) those party to need to be put on trial & carted from town to town to city to feel the nation's wrath & disgust & then flayed publically. it would be barbaric but their actions would deserve it. nuttyhateus would then need to face the world court. okay, i'll hold that dream. right now it seems fitting, if not entirely likely. first outlaw all duel citizens. be they canadian/mexican/or the powerful few chosen.
Look. I'm a peon, and not a professional journalist or scientist. But I do have some critical faculties. I found it mind expanding to read the article, as it seemed to tie together more data points than the BS the corporate media has served to date. The Western nations are failing due, among other things, to a failure of scientific acumen: (cf. WTC 7; "persistent contrails," etc.). I presented the above info because it discusses how if the "hydrogen" explosions at Fukushima were the same as Three Mile Island there is no way they could have blown through meters of concrete -- only a nuke could do that; and how fitting that for the preceding year, the Western world was out of H3 which is required for nuke detection, which allowed the Israeli defense contractor to install the 1000+ pound cameras (that is, bombs) inside Fukushima. Anyway, I don't follow up much with most conspiracy theories. But 9/11 and 3/11 (the Fuku date) both need explaining. And if true, the nearly monolithic corporate control of the media is breathtaking.
hamF, i concur completely. yes, we need in light of what's now known to be happening in the ME (thank you freddie for the youtube!)...we all have to consider the unthinkable as possible, & probably probable. thank you ZH for continuing to lead us down the never ending rabbit hole. may you, snowdon & this courageous judge remain safe & honoured.
They hate Japan for a lot of reasons - not a lot of immigrants makes th racist you know.. but not Israel
TPTB are weakening them with child porn addiction and whatever the psychological hell to get them hating regular healthy family child breeding
Ham, there is only one problem with the stuff you are reading. PHYSICS!!!!
Even conspiracy theorists can't change physics. You see, every seismic monitoring station in the world can tell the difference between a nuclear explosion and an earthquake. There are libraries full geophysical PHD theses that study the differences between the two types of event. Both types of event have wave propagation that is distinguished as P-waves (primary waves that are longitudinal in nature, like a spring) and S-waves (secondary waves that are transverse waves, up and down like shaking out a carpet, here the waves travel at right angles to the direction of travel).
Explosions are depleted in S-waves.
freedserf: Thank you for your response. I still do smell a rat here. The timing, the unusual explosions, the lack of preparedness. Did a HAARP facility help to facilitate the movement of plates below the ocean, as it is able to do? Was some other "secret" technology/weaponry employed? Too many rabbit holes here for me. I didn't mean to thread jack. It's just that I am tired of being lied to. I wish you, the other ZH commenters, and the good judge only the best.
Fukushima was actually 3/11/11
Which can be construed to be 322
I don't get that far in the conspiracy.
It does seem likely though that Japan was using Fuku to develop a nuclear weapon program, so no outside cleanup help and prying eyes needed.
Russia could have lent some expertise in this area,
I have not read the article however I was there when it happened and there is no doubt in my mind that it was an earthquake. We had several smaller earthquakes in the 7.0 range leading up to the big one and we got P waves from all of them including the big one. However since 1965 there has been is a one Megaton Thermonuclear broken arrow on an A-4E Skyhawk at the bottom of the ocean 80 miles off of the coast of the Ryuku Island chain.
I have not read the article however I was there when it happened and there is no doubt in my mind that it was an earthquake. We had several smaller earthquakes in the 7.0 range leading up to the big one and we got P waves from all of them including the big one. However since 1965 there has been is a one Megaton Thermonuclear broken arrow on an A-4E Skyhawk at the bottom of the ocean 80 miles off of the coast of the Ryuku Island chain.
The earthquake was centered offshore, thus the tsunami and not much damage from the quake itself. The Japanese have the reputation for honesty, integrity, doing the right thing but many times it is not true. They can be just as evil and devious as the best of them. Japan has been one of the worst at copying and exploiting others work or avoiding liability for bad products. If it happens in Japan good luck in the courts as they will either rule against the foreign corporation or stall for years until it gets dropped. In the US it's always the records are in Japan and won't be produced. Many a US company lost a case in US court due to this and years later whistleblowers released documents that would have made these cases slam dunks. TEPCO, the Japanese company that ran Fukushima, long before the incident, was told to move the backup generators away from the seawall to higher ground farther onshore. They didn't. If they had this disaster never would have occured. The US offered it's best experts and anything else they needed but TEPCO refused, possibly because they would lose face. It seems for every problem that sprung up TEPCO listed all their options and took the cheapest one not the best. Thus one disaster after another and it's still not over.
Judge Richard Leon, good for him to tell it how it is...
Soon we have to deal with the Freedom Act, aka Patriot act part 3 or 4 I lost count.
What a joke the names they come up with for Orwellian scripture to control us all.
Well, the 'Shit All Over Your Freedoms Act' title was a bit too close to the truth.
Chupacabra, this is the heart of the matter.
By the way, I owe you a personal thanks. When I first noticed your comments on this, I said to my husband, "There's this commenter on the Hedge, he sounds completely reasonable on everything but then he says something about UNITED STATES CORP., INC. (or other national, state, individual corporations) and that sounds crazy." Well, you kept it up and it bothered me so much that I looked into it... and read and read and read. Now I am much more informed, and it was your comments that started my journey. So, thank you. That administrative corporation, a product and enabler of the BIS banking system and its fiat regime, IS the heart of the issue and thank you for raising it enough to get me (and I'm sure, others) to notice.
And for anyone out there who thinks their comments below an article are just 'useless venting', it isn't true. These comments can be very educational. One of the reasons I love the Hedge is for the (relatively) free comments section. Lots of noise and heat, yes, but also some light.
I wonder if Palantir's valuation takes a hit as a result of this...
I'm sure they will pursue grandfathered in TPP damages and get a nice settlement out of the taxpayers.
part 1.
follow the grant money.
got us all by the shortncurlys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4bhq6XoIhs
Easier to follow now:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11989595/Appl...
Tim Cook, your Appledaddi, says "Fuck your cash!"
WillyGroper, listening now. Long but great link.
"By what authority?" Exactly.
Corporate law. Constitution & BoR have been suspended since 1933. Ruled by executive order.
USSA all the way down to your municpality. They compete for grants. Each one gives those at the top...pick your alleged rep, more payola & projects awarded cronies. This is also implementing Agenda 21 via "green areas," read parks & rec, those great bike lanes, roundabouts. Did I mention the CPS monetization?
It's precisely those grants that captured education, science, medical, not to mention the privatization of the PIC for their sick medical transhuman lab rats.
Go to 10:50:00 in & marvel at not only the responsiveness, but the representation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lR6XQ6Cj5w
@ Renfield,
You completely welcome. I've posted a couple of different summaries I've putt together about the Criminals Deceptive Fraud being carried out on the American People on a mass scale. It's being conducted by deceptive lingo by these Charlitans simply be our ignorance & using Black's Laws Dictionary being used against us by our Silence / CONSENT. It all boils down to simple Contract Lwa which inevitably is null & void if both parties aren't privy / informed to the info contained in such agreement.
I suggest Start Pageing "The Bankruptcy of The United States" given on the House, excuse me, Board of Trustees floor by the late James Trafficant.
Go to the last pages of this thread & I will repost them for ypu. Cut, paste & share the insight with you friends & loved ones.
-Miggy
Will do, Miggy. I will try to share but alas, this is now difficult as fewer people want to hear as the rabbit hole gets darker and deper. It comes down to, when it personally affects THEM, and only then do they listen. (Hence FSA benefits.) No matter, as events continue to unfold this info will become more relevant to those who are affected. Contract law has completely overtaken 'constitutional' law (such as even that is) but I am convinced that as more of us get affected by these adhesion contracts, where you don't even know the terms or that you even signed onto them, this information will eventually be seen as very relevant. An uniformed 'party' is not a real party at all. This is show very clearly in the TPPA - 'laws' that are kept secret for years, really? The Truth About The Law is also a great site for getting perspective.
It's all starts with the Birth Certificate. In Essence, that is the first Null & Coid contract. Being a baby cannot by any stretch of the means be able to agree, much less read it to agree.
BC, DL...anything you sign, is "presumed" consent. Read UCC.
Sign everything prefaced with...without prejudice 1-308, your name.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/1/1-308
Gives you legal standing to ask ever so politely for any & all binding agreements & decline "presumed" consent.
Ain't many honest folk left. Tell most people about all the corruption and they'll ask how they get in on it and then stop trusting you since they'll think you are out to scam them because how you know about scams so much if you ain't scamming too?
The cycles of betrayals have jaded the masses so much they target anyone that seems good natured as a crop to be reaped
NSA spokesperson Mordechai Wankerstein says that the agency had "anticipated" the judge's ruling...
i see..... so criminals with contempt... -lol if so, why did they do it ANYWAY.... you mean they
could not figure this out BEFORE they did it.... yeah.. right....
these fuckers are incorregible hypocrites and need to be hung from the highest pole...
contempt upon complacency.... (to belive that the USA became a great country just by happenstance - i.e. no effort involved)...
FUCK THESE ARSEHOLES
Of coure it was anticipated.
They probably had the poor bastard's chambers bugged, his emails on a live feed, and cameras in his water-closet.
"Wankerstein"???? wow.
unless he wrote it on an underwood typewriter in a clean room under the cone of silence, the nsa knew about it before it was released today.
NSA spokesperson Mordechai Wankerstein says that the agency had "anticipated" the judge's ruling...
Duh!
They were reading his emails, listening to his phone, reading his text's, bugging his car, house, office, etc. ... and don't forget the elite soldiers that pose as his secretaries. Sheesh!
I didn't read the part where the Judge overruled the financing of such audacities.
"Dead man walking......."
Not necessarily. Simply, one of the Secret Courts is going to overrule this decision for "National Security" reasons.
Problem solved, case closed.
Exactamundo.
It will be overturned in an appeal to a "higher" court, like every other significantly related case that has come before this.
None of it means Jack Fucking Shit! They're all Criminals working under Criminal Fraud pretenses working for a Criminal Fraud Entity aka the Criminal Fraud UNITED STATES, CORP. INC.
Not really. Now we have a legitimate re-revised ruling explicitly and clearly stating the NSA bulk collection is outright unconstitutional and even accompanying with injunction to stop it. The fact has been publicly spoken out and as of this moment no one can question anti-spying opinions and efforts to stop it on legal basis. And that's a big difference. Even if the ruling were eventually overruled the unconstitutionality of NSA spying remains a legitimate juridical opinion and act.
Or, in other words, if the Congress does not stop the program immediately, we are legally justified to treat the Congress as a bunch of criminals with all due legal consequences.
True. BUT.....when the Congress completely IGNORES this judge's ruling, or decides to 'hold committee hearings' regarding this issue sometime in 2017 (maybe)......what then? That lecherous body of thieving vipers has already shown Americans nothing but 100% pure contempt (see TARP, where 95% of the country was against it, yet it miraculously 'passed' anyway). So I fully expect the congress to do NOTHING and let this metadata farming continue. The gubbermint didn't just build the largest such mining center out in Utah only to shut it all down and give up that juice.....cuz some silly judge said so.
My point is essentially this. Congress will ignore the ruling....because they KNOW they will not be held personally....and PHYSICALLY.....accountable for doing so. It's not like the cops (LMAO) or any other 'law enforcement' agency is going to storm Capitol Hill and arrest anybody. Sooooo......yyeeaahh. They can pretty much continue as they wish using their preferred philosophy, succinctly expressed by the following five words:
Because Fuck You, That's Why.
The Congress may do whatever they want to. By ignoring a legal ruling of such importance they'll send a clear message to the rest of the world as becoming officially an illegitimate untrustworthy body that doesn't deserve any respect whatsoever. All their actions can only be enforced by brute force lacking the last bits of natural respectability. For other countries, especially those in the EU, the US will become openly unconstitutional and undemocratic country losing all its former credibility. During current European tensions such a status just ignites more disgust with America.
From the longer perspective the mentioned situation is unsustainable speeding up the final resolution. Either the US will collapse or it will transform into an open tyranny, which is virtually the same. In both cases it'll degrade itself becoming a marginal periphery deterring the last simpletons worldwide who still believe in 'strong and prosperous America'. Needless to say, America will lose its hegemony status in the twinkling of an eye.
Ignoring legal rulings and injunctions by the highest legal body is a very serious issue. It's in fact an open declaration of disintegration of the juridical system per se and a sign of state destruction in its final phase. It's equivalent to saying the country is in collapse.
Great man walking. I for one have his back.
We're a nation of laws?? Since when? The plaintiffs of MF Global will be waiting until they are dead.
The cynicism on this site is usually well justified, but not in this case. This judge is a hero of the highest order. The problem you blokes face is when people like this are all gone. While they are around, all you can do, consistent with your own all-too-frequently stated moral principles, is thank them.
Freedom from suspicion is basic right.
Boris is concur, do not emplacement of Hot Tub on Balcony unless you are enjoy Aviation because balcony is not strong sufficient once is fill Hot Tub.
http://twitter.com/borisalatovkrap
Meh. This guy will just be marginalized. His ruling will be overlooked, ignored, overturned, or all three. No one will notice or care.
Now on to more important news. Hey did you hear that Fan Duel and Draft Kings have been kicked out of NY State??
Bingo! The Cocksucker In Chief has his home-boyz working up the appeal as we speak.
Because Obama!
The most dangerous activity you have will kill you (with some support from the alphabet soup agency at hand)... just going to get the paper from the step, if necessary, in this den of vipers.
Hell, it can happen to any of us on any given day. Trip and break our necks. Auto accident. Whatever.
I have a hard time taking that excuse seriously from highly paid servants in ethics-based professions.
Nice to see a guy doing his fucking job for a change.
They'll make sure to bankrupt his district so he can't be paid anymore... Then the IRS will audit him for the last 20 years and for the next 30 filled with false accusations... Then the sex offender charges with homeless trannies and meth... Then the 'hacker' indentity thief ruining all his accounts (NSA ops).. Then they'll send unemployed negros to rape his wife and kids and the media will call him a racist for complaining about it
And he'll sell the rights to the book, movie and then series. He'll finally be "sponsored"!
What material to work with! Why hasn't a "consultant" industry develped to serve these guys, anyway?
WTF.
I think trump said he should be executed. I would pardon him i were trump.
Snowden doesn't need a pardon. Classifying illegal activities is against the law, and I would direct the justice department to investigate who made the illegal program classified and haul their ass into court. I would also instruct them to investigate all the other classified programs that may also be in breach. Cover-ups are just like lays potato chips - never just one. This is in addition to directing a full inventory of the nations assets (including gold), telling the shareholders of the Fed to go pound sand and default, have many of the departments wind down operations, and order the military to begin a systematic and orderly withdrawal to our own borders.
That's just day 1.
That post is absolutely dripping with anti-semitic innuendo...
Three autistic guys found objection to your comment.
Meh. Why make things so complicated?
If I was the king of the world, I would just order everybody to forget about it all and move on.
<< I would also instruct them to investigate all the other classified programs that may also be in breach. >>
I can see "them" obeying you diligently.
Oh...I thought it was the US has the Britain's spy on all of us and we are spying on their citizens for them so it was all legal and yanky doodle
All American Revolutionaries were traitors to the British crown. And rightly so- the king was a dictator and the colonialists were subjects- not free men.
In time Snowden will be recorded as an American hero.
The throne in Rome was once bought for money- to the highest bidder. So this show will go on, but hopefully not for too much longer.
it only took 60 years to go from Augustus to Caligula.
hillary has already proven that there is no law broken when breaching top secret ultra confidentiality. i think snowden didn't keep his server in the bathroom though. so he's probably in big trouble buster
@ Hedge Accordingly -
there is precedent - Reagan brought back Iranian hostages while Jimmy was being shown the door -
Good point.
ha
If Carter had been the challenger to the incumbent, Reagan, Carter would have bought back the hostages.
That's the way life works.
He probably comes back to USA under trump. Lauded as hero.
Fuck that. The squid is not to be trusted. The idea of Snowden spending his days in a SHU torture cell is a horror. I know it's cold over there, but stay free brother. History as well as the present have vindicated you.
"Fuck that. The squid is not to be trusted. The idea of Snowden spending his days in a SHU torture cell is a horror. I know it's cold over there, but stay free brother. History as well as the present have vindicated you. "
Sadly, I must second this.
We need him and he deserves his freedom.
Snowden will not be safe to return until the present system has been conclusively dismantled and an entirely new government constructed. No good can come of his martyrdom or destruction.
He is valuable to the efforts of resisting The Tyranny and if his resistance must be exorcised from a distance until the Great Liberation is enacted, then so be it...
Trump has stated Snowden is a traitor I believe....please do correct me if I am incorrect. Trump is riding the populist wave and has little insight or interest in constitutional issues. This is unfortunate as he has had the balls to hit the immigration issue hard and repetitively.
Trump is just not a guy who is guided by principle....he does whatever the inner Donald sez.
it's pretty much true that if The Donald takes over then he will be Emperor, King, and CEO of America. The Constitution will be shattered into a million fragments. The Donald will probably keep a personal laundry list of everyone's credit rating :-)
I'm not convinced Snowden wasn't actually a Russian agent to begin with.
Think about it. What if he were?
What if nobody could be asked to believe it, because the NSA/CIA/TPTB have told so many God damned lies over the years about anything and everything, that nobody would believe them in a million years when they blamed Russia? What if the "good American who couldn't stomach what his government was doing" story was way too convenient for everyone to believe, and the "Russian agent" story far too incredible, for a world populace that is sick and tired of being constantly lied to and manipulated by the USA? And what if this likelihood were known in advance, which is why it was sold that way by an extremely intelligent intelligence organization?
On a related note: who killed Boris Nemtzov?
It couldn't have been Putin, right? Nobody believes it was Putin. Putin wouldn't kill somebody right in the open in front of the Kremlin....................would he?
What if he did, and again everyone immediately blamed the CIA, cause everyone knows that's just the type of shit the CIA always does?
It'd be a pretty fucking amazing and embarassing coup against the liars in Washington/Tel Aviv, wouldn't it, using their own lying ass deeds against them like that?
Food for thought, ZH'ers...
Perhaps one of you downvoters could explain to me (like I'm a 5 year old) why I'm wrong?
Hi, gladius, I'll explain mine since you asked. Legit question, so like you're an adult, not 5!
First off, b/c you presented no evidence for the Nemtsov speculation (the source of my downvote - I haven't a strong opinion on Snowden, except that I assume he was pretty well vetted when he signed on with the CIA). That's not a dealbreaker, of course, but here's why I didn't find the Nemtsov part a good speculation:
1. Cui bono - Nemtsov was a continuing critic of the administration (some would speculate, "5th column"). He had maybe 3% support at best. There really would have been no point to killing him, EXCEPT for the "critic dies" publicity his death would create. Cui bono? Russia's 5th column, which from all I can see is largely CIA- (and Mossad?) supported. But there would have been little to no benefit to the Russian administration to killing Nemtsov. This is probably the strongest reason against assuming that it was Putin.
2. Pattern - The CIA/Mossad/NATO Deep State has a long, long record of just this sort of thing. (cf. Charlie Hebdo, MH17, North Korea/Sony hacking scandal, Nisman in Argentina, etc.) When Russia does this, it at least has the sense not to publicise it, especially all over the notoriously CIA-scripted corporate MSM. The pattern fits our Deep State, and the fact that the corporate MSM jumped all over it at the time further deepens my suspicion. The MSM has a history of rushing to judgement and making a story 'hot' before the facts are in.
3. We have several informed & intelligent speculations along the lines of how & why it was our very own Deep State. See Vineyard of the Saker, Paul Craig Roberts, Henry Kames (New Eastern Outlook), Mish:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2015/02/breaking-news-false-flag-in-mos...
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/02/27/nemtsovs-assassination-propag...
http://journal-neo.org/2015/03/19/boris-nemtsov-murder-no-enemy-can-matc...
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2015/03/rush-to-judgment-and-e...
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2015/03/rush-to-judgment-part-...
I'm not saying it WASN'T Putin. But the best information & analysis I have, suggest it was the usual suspects. If you'd kept it to Snowden alone, I probably would have left it 0 or upvoted, since I think contrarian thinking against the grain is always important, absent more concrete info. As you say, it's 'food for thought'.
So, this explains my own personal downvote. Can't answer for the others. But FWIW, don't worry about the polls anyway. They're erased from the record after a day, and your comment will still be there for those who wish to consider it. Just comment as you think and let the chips fall where they may. Polls are for politicians, best ignored if you have an informed opinion. Debate & rebuttal are the strengths of this comment section. Best to you, and thanks for asking.
Yes, I don't agree about the Nemtsov/Snowden connection either. However...I do have reservations about Snowden.
1. when he comes out with his revelations, first he goes to China - then Russia: the two stalwarts of the BRICS nations.
2. nothing he has revealed is anything that most of those who are aware thought was already going on anyway.
3. why wait to reveal things one item at a time? Shit dude, your LIFE is supposedly on the line, and the data you have could become antiquated quickly, being it's computer stuff - get ALL that stuff out there, ASAP!!!
4. The Guardian, which posted his early information, was taken to task for publishing his stuff...by having exactly ONE hard-drive demolished. They certainly had backups.
5. Glenn Greenwald got the rubber-glove treatment when trying to go back to Brazil at the airport, but: his boss (and Laura Poitras, another Snowden revealer), Pierre Omidyar (owner of PayPal), is an American who lives in the USA and PAYS Greenwald to print Snowden's stuff - but you don't hear a peep from anyone about him...probably because of:
6. Mr. Omidyar was busted giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to oligarchs in the Ukraine to get that war started. Probably via Victoria Nuland. One of Greenwald's former journalist associates (I believe he works for Pando.com) published this information and Greenwald could not answer adequately.
Those are just a few of my reservations, but enough to wonder if Snowden is just a limited hangout or controlled opposition. Perhaps he does represent that there are divisions within the CIA/FBI, and I hope so. And I do give him props for waking up people that wouldn't normally pay attention to things in the world. But I'm keeping my mind open concerning him, and what he really means.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with your observations. I initially took Snowden at face value. The smoking gun for me was this:
Did you see the Greenwald/Snowden video of them in the hotel room in Hong Kong?
Did you notice that the style of that video looks remarkably like the various Russian propaganda videos which have been released over the years?
Yes, Russian propaganda. These videos all have a certain style and theme to them. It's a very casual and relaxed style, as if to imply that the film is just an ordinary film taken by an ordinary individual to document ordinary circumstances. But if you watch enough of these videos, you start to see certain patterns, and it starts to seem as if these videos were staged. I know I'm being vague here; these videos are numerous and very subtle.
To name one specific example that comes immediately to mind: there was a video released towards the beginning of the Ukraine situation which was supposedly taken from inside a meeting of disgruntled Russians who were in support of the Ukraine fascists. Inside the small room there were a dozen or so people and there was a large video screen where they were video conferencing with some skinhead from west Ukraine. Not long after the video starts, a Russian police officer walks in and in a very polite manner, tells everyone they are in violation of the law and they must please leave the room at once and follow him to the police station, where they will be asked some basic information and then released with no arrest. So the people begin filing out of the room and as they're in the streets, a couple people shout at them that they're traitors, etc. But the police are polite as can be.
Does anyone remember that video?
There are dozens of other videos that came out along a similar theme. In one there was some senior Russian politician who expounds at length on his thoughts regarding the Ukraine situation. He comes across as very intelligent and observant. Another one, a Russian explosives expert supposedly watches the video of the 9/11 bombing for the first time, and explains his "first impressions", which is that it was the work of explosive demolition and not aircraft. That particular video is where I first started to realize these videos are seemingly staged. (The guy did not convince me that this was really his first time seeing the video. He was just acting as if it were. His acting wasn't good enough.) Another such video was a press interview with Putin which showed Putin answering a bunch of questions from journalists. Etc, etc, etc.
These are all propaganda videos. I'm certain of it. Not to say the contents are lies--they seem to be mostly truthful, but they were created and pre-planned with a specific purpose in mind: to show the Russian point of view from the best possible, and most importantly, most innocent perspective.
Having seen enough of these videos, one can then watch the Greenwald/Snowden-in-Hong-Kong video and see that it fits the exact same format!
I really had no suspicions of Snowden being a Russian agent until I saw that video. That was a real WTF moment, when puzzle pieces clicked together, and I started to doubt my preconceptions.
I think you are mistaken about Snowden being a Russian agent. It seems obvious to me that he is a CIA double agent working as controlled opposition. I really do not think it matters either way. I do not believe Snowden genuinely objects to mass spying. His job is to bring it to the public's attention. He is just 1 link in the chain.
I recommend folks watch Snowden's interview with John Oliver. There is a few moments where you can tell Snowden was sweating. He is clearly an actor.
Actors don't sweat.
People on intelligence agency shitlists sure as fuck do.
I would.
You are both wrong. The style and pace of the Citizenfour movie is determined by the director (Poitras) and her camera operators, not by the subject.
As for the John Oliver interview, that was the lamest interview ever. If some idiot with a British accent flew all the way to Moscow to ask me 10 questions about "are my dick pics safe", I would be uncomfortable too, not to mention disappointed. I used to like his bits with John Stewart on the Daily Show, but that was the last John Oliver interview I will ever watch.
John Oliver was a dick to Snowden in that video. I like Oliver but I lost some respect for him that day.
"But there would have been little to no benefit to the Russian administration to killing Nemtsov."
Except he DID benefit from it! Did he not? Didn't everyone blame the CIA, thus reinforcing the "USA evil, Russia good guys" narrative that everyone has been leaning towards?
Let's turn it around: what benefit could CIA possibly hope to achieve by killing this man so publicly? The CIA did not get into such a position of power by being incompetent morons. Not to say they don't make mistakes, but really, did they really do this expecting that everyone would blame Putin?
"The CIA/Mossad/NATO Deep State has a long, long record of just this sort of thing."
Which does not refute my observation at all, does it, that CIA would be blamed precisely because they have such a long track record of doing such things?
If the boy cries wolf twice, what happens on the third time, when there are actually real wolves?
Remember that Putin is ex-KGB! The KGB certainly also has a long history of dirty work too! Putin may be an all around good guy, but to anoint him sainthood is surely premature.
"We have several informed & intelligent speculations along the lines of how & why it was our very own Deep State. See Vineyard of the Saker, Paul Craig Roberts, Henry Kames (New Eastern Outlook), Mish:"
I don't understand your point. Is my own speculation not informed and intelligent enough for you? Or because those folks have websites where they spout their opinions every day, their speculation is somehow better than mine? Or maybe because there are multiple people speculating along the same lines, then they outnumber me and thus my speculation is moot?
"I'm not saying it WASN'T Putin. But the best information & analysis I have, suggest it was the usual suspects."
Which is precisely my point. What if this situation was precisely planned to ensure that you would come to such a conclusion? You do accept that the most "obvious" answer isn't always the truth, right?
"If you'd kept it to Snowden alone, I probably would have left it 0 or upvoted, since I think contrarian thinking against the grain is always important, absent more concrete info. As you say, it's 'food for thought'."
Why downvote at all?
"So, this explains my own personal downvote. Can't answer for the others. But FWIW, don't worry about the polls anyway. They're erased from the record after a day, and your comment will still be there for those who wish to consider it."
I'm not worried about the downvotes. I'm worried about what the downvotes signify about people's ability to actually think.
Did I not properly fellate Putin enough for the ZH crowd?
"Debate & rebuttal are the strengths of this comment section. Best to you, and thanks for asking."
Thank you for joining in on the discussion and sharing your thinking. So far I've seen nothing to suggest that my speculation is at all off-base. In fact, you seem to have strengthened my argument, by confirming the very things I predicted about people's tendency to blame the most obvious suspect, rather than the person who actually gained the most. "Qui bono?"
Hi, gladius, one more, and the last word is yours. When you say "everyone blamed...", that depends on whom you consider to be "everyone". If you're watching the MSM 'news', then "everyone" would have blamed Putin. If you're watching the alt 'news', then "everyone" blamed the usual suspects - but that audience is far smaller than the mainstream narrative, so much so that this audience is usually considered 'fringe'. So if by "everyone", you mean the fringe, then sure. But that ignores the official mainstream, which I think is your mistake. In answering "cui bono", we see that the Deep State would have benefitted from MSM coverage of an otherwise negligible Putin opponent, and in justification for ramping up the MIC (more $$$) to counter the "Putin threat" in the eyes of the large MSM audience. Thinking about the Nemtsov affair without considering the huge propaganda around it is, to me, a mistake.
I have no opinion on Putin, except that so far he's been doing a lot of things right. But he isn't MY leadership -- on my own 'leadership', I have much stronger opinions, for obvious reasons. I think 'fellating Putin' is too strong a phrase for those who simply do not accept the mainstream characterisation of him, and who point out the obvious "Putin did it" distractions. (Something you are obviously aware of yourself, as you notice the Deep State & MSM record of lies -- not accepting these, and refuting them when they rush to "Putin did it", is not the same as fellating Putin.) Most of the Hedge rebuttals of the "Putin did it" narratives, from what I have seen, are simply shooting down the rather obvious MSM propaganda. I do not see, so far, that Snowden has benefitted much from his revelations (again, unless you count credibility with the "fringe", which I don't really think is much of a benefit). My rebuttal focused on the MSM narrative, and to show how the Deep State DOES benefit from both that narrative AND from the act of killing Nemtsov; this is not equivalent to anointing Putin with "sainthood". (I think saints are mostly Christian Catholic anyway, which personally I am not.)
In truth, yes, I didn't find your speculation informed since, as I said, it lacked evidence and I did not find the reasoning convincing. The speculation I posted, to me is more credible, for both evidence and reasoning. When I downvote, it's because I flat-out disagree - as opposed to an open mind, where I'd leave it 0 or upvote. In this case, I completely disagree, based on what I have read, that Nemtsov was in any way a Putin operation. Putin's background as KGB, insofar as it went, would lead me to think he'd be more intelligent in taking out enemies -- keeping it quiet, and out of the MSM. The downvote button is best used for when we disagree. Otherwise, why have voting at all?
Anyway, thank you for the debate! (Upvoted for debate value.) The comments are richer for it. The last word is yours.
"When you say "everyone blamed...", that depends on whom you consider to be "everyone". If you're watching the MSM 'news', then "everyone" would have blamed Putin."
Yes, nobody on ZH (other than the few career trolls) blamed or suspected Putin. Nobody with any clue blamed him. So if CIA did this, was it really worth the trouble just to fool the mainstream morons, who will always believe whatever they're told, regardless? The CIA does not need to resort to such heavy handed tactics in order to fool the morons of America. All they have to do is put up a story on Fox News about Putin killing kittens with a claw hammer and those people will nod their heads and say they knew it all along.
So who benefitted MOST from Nemtzov's death? Seems like Putin was the clear winner to me.
"In answering "cui bono", we see that the Deep State would have benefitted from MSM coverage of an otherwise negligible Putin opponent, and in justification for ramping up the MIC (more $$$) to counter the "Putin threat" in the eyes of the large MSM audience."
Aren't there far easier and less antagonistic ways to gain a little extra domestic hatred of Putin? Haven't they already demonized the man for years? Didn't all the clueless twats of America already believe that Putin was the worst dictator ever? So was it really worth uniting the entire nation of Russia and the rest of the thinking world against CIA by perpetrating such a shocking murder?
Remember there are plenty of less-than-clued-in people in Russia too. Many people there have had questions about their leadership over the years. Putin gained a lot of sympathy and support that day. Much as the U.S. did on 9/11, for example, though to a lesser degree and with only one man dead instead of thousands.
"In truth, yes, I didn't find your speculation informed since, as I said, it lacked evidence"
Where does one go to find evidence of anything? At some point, when it comes to such things as who carried out an assassination in which the only "evidence" is a grainy video, isn't it all speculation?
"Putin's background as KGB, insofar as it went, would lead me to think he'd be more intelligent in taking out enemies -- keeping it quiet, and out of the MSM."
Unless he wanted to show the whole world what evil assholes the CIA really are. He couldn't have killed Nemtzov on the other side of Russia....it'd have to be in front of the Kremlin, to ensure that everyone would say "It couldn't have been Putin....he'd be smarter than that!" ... Right? If Nemtzov had quietly turned up dead in a dumpster somewhere, what would people have suspected then? They certainly wouldn't be blaming the CIA!
The best answer to the Nemtzov affair is that "timing is everything". The Empire of Chaos needed a dose of Putin hate to cement the sanctions drive. A dose of CIA hate wouldn't give Putin any advantage at that moment.
I'm not sure many people blamed the CIA anyway. Nemzov's Ukrainian hooker companion and the Chechen hit men seem to indicate authorship closer to home.
I dont generally bother with the voting thing and did not dv you but from your language I identify you as a troll not genuinely interested in discussion.
and one wonders why so few of you ever think of the british and sas and mi6 and the City of London. For example.
Or Khodorovsky and his crew and networks which are redjew mafia and mossad and presumably the agency.
just for example.
Kolomoisky shooting down the plane in ukraine is another example where one might theorize it was not Putin.
And Israel bringing down the plane in egypt remotely might be a theory.
And Syria already having been lousy with us special ops is a theory.
And then maybe Putin is under your bed right now...
Torture? I hardly think so. He'll be murdered within weeks, on the street in public in broad daylight no excuses no fakery and no questions asked. Just welcome to the United States and bang bang now try to pin it on someone, just try. Never happen. The FBI won't even investigate it.
"Torture you, that's good, that's a good idea, I like that one."
I hope Kali is well fed and resting.
Some people find strange places to commit 3+ bullets suicides.
NZ, rock on. Snowden may not say anything about 911, but he has said a lot, and I hope he stays free.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaa7otvglbw
The world really is upside down when Holder is head of Justice Dept (but should be in jail), and Snowden is banished (but should be acknowledged as a hero).
This pussball judge is no different from any other American judge. They're all scabby scumbags that should be sliced wide open to let the slimy puss ooze out. The problem in our judicial system is LITERALLY EVERYTHING suits the exigencies of the moment. HENCE THIS JUDGE'S DECISION MADE SOLEY FOR THE BENEFIT OF AMERICAN HIGH TECH COMPANIES, THAT HAVE THEIR OWN EXINGENCIES!
You just think of the turds Obama has appointed to the bench, or any of those judges appointed by scumbag politicians. And those that run for office? Talk about exingencies!
Trump said he should be assinated.
Has Trump told us his opinion of Snowden? My guess is he thinks he's a traitor just like every other candidate.
If the NSA can't hoover up everyone's communications, how will the NSA be able to tell the Bush crime cartel what freelancers are selling narcotics and meth in the United States. The Bush family syndicate is the largest manufacturer and distributor of methamphetamines in the world, even after Russian warplanes blew up the Bush's giant meth lab/factory in ISIS occupied Syria. The Bush controlled opium farms in Afghanistan are breaking drug production records year after year. Without the NSA giving information to the DEA, which then uses parallel construction (perjury by DEA agents) to hijack non-Bush drug shipments, the Bush crime cartel would have to lower its dangerous drug prices due to competition. Thanks to the NSA, dope dealers know that unless they work for the Bush crime cartel, they will go to prison.
Statements like his make him the Magneto of errant flying nails.
He had better make sure the screws holding the chandelier above his bench are extra secure. These old courthouses you know are getting....well you know... old....and that chandelier could simply fall from the ceiling and hurt him.
So they are going to just go back to doing it illegally?
pods
If at all possible......
Yeah. File under, "Yeah, you, and whose army?"
They will actually crank the illegality up a couple of notches if at all possible...
definitely an andrew jackson moment for obama. sadly his response will be no different... (sadder yet, it will be defended by his supporters b/c to not do so would be racist and/or detrimental to hrc's campaign...)
"...go back to..."?
"So they are going to just go back to doing it illegally? "
The point is: someone agrees with those of us who maintained that the domestic spying was never legal.
I thank him for vindicating my continued assertion...
Well, it is a nice thing to hear, but here is how it works.
Some schlep rules against government. Gov appeals, using tax dollars to defend itself. Gov appeals all the way to SCOTUS.
SCOTUS codifies illegal behavior.
Sort of like money laundering for lawyers.
Take illegal thing, have court case rule against it, move it up to SCOTUS cleans it, voila!
Kind of like Ocare tax/insurance.
pods
"SCOTUS codifies illegal behavior. "
THAT is the problem right there.
Can't have a viable justice system without the justice part..
'Sort of like money laundering for lawyers.'
+10000 pods...
"So they are going to just go back to doing it illegally?"
Of course. But if they get caught (another Snowden would do it) it's a felony, and maybe treason. The low-level grunts know they'll be thrown under the bus when that day comes, so they'll either disobey orders or first chance they get rat out the whole thing as a way to avoid any personal responsibility. The leadership probably think they can continue to divert attention even then, but they don't know it for a fact, and that will give them pause.
We can't really win at this game. At best we can make them nervous. Maybe it will slow them down a tiny bit.
Snowden's documents revealed that the NSA spies on everyone:
The most extraordinary passage in the memo requires that the Israeli spooks “destroy upon recognition” any communication provided by the NSA “that is either to or from an official of the US government.” It goes on to spell out that this includes “officials of the Executive Branch (including the White House, Cabinet Departments, and independent agencies); the US House of Representatives and Senate (members and staff); and the US Federal Court System (including, but not limited to, the Supreme Court).”
The stunning implication of this passage is that NSA spying targets not only ordinary American citizens, but also Supreme Court justices, members of Congress and the White House itself. One could hardly ask for a more naked exposure of a police state.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/09/13/surv-s13.html
The stunning implication is that Israel has all of the goods on virtually everybody.
Not that they would take advantage of this information or anything...
Or pass any of it on to commercial organisations.
If they are the only ones who get unredacted data feeds amongst all the five-eyes crew, and have as high or higher clearance than anyone else in the US (being that they get to see the full, unredacted feed), then it is quite obvious that they have as much power as anyone in the security establishment of the USA, and likely more, since, presumably, this means that the most powerful security echelons of the US have nothing to hide from them, and no reason to hide anything from them. If this last bit is true, it follows then that the highest security echelons in the USA either are one and the same as the power that receives this data feed, or are merely obeisant to it.
That is a very scary thought.
My money is on 'obeisant' although 'owned' also sums things up nicely.
I just don't know how tens of thousands of patriotic Americans in the alphabet soup "security" sector can simply choose to overlook this little national security oversight.
some do. they usually get hasting'ed, or wellstone'ed, or jennings'ed, though (or jfk'd, or rfk'd, or king'd).
bet theres many times many more being blackmailed, or threatened with criminal charges, or otherwise being put under duress.
and then of course the ones who appear to die of natural causes, but actually don't, and none were ever the wiser.
might account for Goldman's 8 years of trading without one single day of losses
Judge Leon, you need to go hide wherever Snowden is STAT!!! (and open up a ZH account too)
WHOA...hope his car doesn't drive itself into a tree and explode!
rip MH , but yupp dont get 'Hastinged" judge
Or Breitbarted. Or...well that is a long list there, being a judge with common sense you know where we are going with this.
If it does, I'm sure the car will then collapse down to earth in its own footprint at near freefall speed, because SCIENCE!
You beat me to it, Two Thieves, hehe.
Apparently the NSA doesn't have anything on the fine judge (yet) like they do on Chief Justice Scumbag John Roberts. In reality, they will just tell the judge to fuck off and continue whatever the hell they want.
www.traderzoo.mobi
"In reality, they will just tell the judge to fuck off and continue whatever the hell they want."
What is great about you 'Murikans is your combativity.
What on sweet Earth do they do to you, cut off your balls at birth or something?
It is widely understood that the burnout rate once ignited will be so very very rapid. In other words, once the spark ignites the angered populace (fuel), nobody can predict how the US will look when it burns out...likely 4 separate countries. Nobody want's that...yet.
You are wrong.
I want it NOW and I am not alone.
Some of us don't give a shit if Los Angeles and Atlanta fly the same flag as long as liberty and meritocracy rule as much of this land as is possible..
And California gets split into two separate states...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_
They let the women do that in divorce court.
Nah, even the cunts are that way
The NSA will still do it, they'll just hide it better.
Outsourcing.
Russians probably coded it all in the first place.
Exactly. It's illegal for us to do it? We will just hire a company to do it for us.
Watched the show person of interest?
This exact practice has been clearly outlined by the released Snowden documents. Foreign governments routinely enlist foreign intelligence agencies to perform opertations on their citizens that would be otherwise illegal for them to themselves engage in directly.
Last time I checked, this would make any of those orgs at least a conspirator to commit a crime, if not of equal guilt as the individual that actually performed the illegal action.
The American dark and secret "services" are above the law.
They'll do whatever they want whatever a judge says.
Good point. That's true.
Sadly, when caught committing illegal acts, government agencies and officials feign incompetence.
The 9/11 Commission called the lack of government action to stop the attacks a "failure of imagination."
Now, the government seems to be taking a limited hangout with regard to the Kennedy assassination. The latest line of bullshit from the government/news media is that a Secret Service agent in the follow-up car behind the presidential limo may have "accidentally" shot JFK in the head on November 22, 1963.
This cover story was detailed on a show from the Reelz cable TV network: http://www.reelz.com/smokinggun/clips/
And Newsweek covered the same bullshit story a few days ago: http://www.newsweek.com/drunken-truth-about-jfk-assassination-391613
Murderers have a nasty habit of attributing a crime to an "accident." It's akin to someone saying that he accidentally shot someone to death while cleaning his gun. It doesn't hold up to even the most minor scrutiny.