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Why The Neocons Hate The Donald

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Justin Raimondo via Anti-War.com,

Most Americans don’t think much about politics, let alone foreign policy issues, as they go about their daily lives. It’s not that they don’t care: it’s just that the daily grind doesn’t permit most people outside of Washington, D.C. the luxury of contemplating the fate of nations with any regularity. There is one exception, however, and that is during election season, and specifically – when it comes to foreign policy –  every four years, when the race for the White House begins to heat up. The President, as commander in chief, shapes US foreign policy: indeed, in our post-constitutional era, now that Congress has abdicated its responsibility, he has the de facto power to single-handedly take us into war. Which is why, paraphrasing Trotsky, you may not be interested in politics, but politics is certainly interested in you.

The most recent episode of the continuing GOP reality show, otherwise known as the presidential debates, certainly gave us a glimpse of what we are in for if the candidates on that stage actually make it into the Oval Office – and, folks, it wasn’t pretty, for the most part. But there were plenty of bright spots.

This was supposed to have been a debate about economics, but in the Age of Empire there is no real division between economic and foreign policy issues. That was brought home by the collision between Marco Rubio and Rand Paul about half way through the debate when Rubio touted his child tax credit  program as being “pro-family.” A newly-aggressive and articulate Rand Paul jumped in with this:

“Is it conservative to have $1 trillion in transfer payments – a new welfare program that’s a refundable tax credit? Add that to Marco’s plan for $1 trillion in new military spending, and you get something that looks, to me, not very conservative.”

Rubio’s blow-dried exterior seemed to fray momentarily, as he gave his “it’s for the children” reply:

“But if you invest it in your children, in the future of America and strengthening your family, we’re not going to recognize that in our tax code? The family is the most important institution in society. And, yes…

 

”PAUL: Nevertheless, it’s not very conservative, Marco.”

Stung to the quick, Rubio played what he thought was his trump card:

”I know that Rand is a committed isolationist. I’m not. I believe the world is a stronger and a better place, when the United States is the strongest military power in the world.

 

“PAUL: Yeah, but, Marco! … How is it conservative … to add a trillion-dollar expenditure for the federal government that you’re not paying for?

 

”RUBIO: Because…

 

“PAUL: … How is it conservative to add a trillion dollars in military expenditures? You can not be a conservative if you’re going to keep promoting new programs that you’re not going to pay for.

 

(APPLAUSE)”

Here, in one dramatic encounter, were two worldviews colliding: the older conservative vision embodied by Rand Paul, which puts domestic issues like fiscal solvency first, and the “internationalist” stance taken by what used to be called Rockefeller Republicans, and now goes under the neoconservative rubric, which puts the maintenance and expansion of America’s overseas empire – dubbed “world leadership” by Rubio’s doppelganger, Jeb Bush – over and above any concerns over budgetary common sense.

Rubio then descended into waving the bloody shirt and evoking Trump’s favorite bogeyman – the Yellow Peril – to justify his budget-busting:

“We can’t even have an economy if we’re not safe. There are radical jihadists in the Middle East beheading people and crucifying Christians. A radical Shia cleric in Iran trying to get a nuclear weapon, the Chinese taking over the South China Sea…”

If the presence of the Islamic State in the Middle East precludes us from having an economy, then those doing their Christmas shopping early this year don’t seem to be aware of it. As for the Iranians and their alleged quest for nuclear weapons, IAEA inspectors are at this very moment verifying the complete absence of such an effort – although Sen. Paul, who stupidly opposed the Iran deal, is in no position to point this out. As for the fate of the South China Sea – if we could take a poll, I wonder how many Americans would rather have their budget out of balance in order to keep the Chinese from constructing artificial islands a few miles off their own coastline. My guess: not many.

Playing the “isolationist” card got Rubio nowhere: I doubt if a third of the television audience even knows what that term is supposed to mean. It may resonate in Washington, but out in the heartland it carries little if any weight with people more concerned about their shrinking bank accounts than the possibility that the South China Sea might fall to … the Chinese.

Ted Cruz underscored his sleaziness (and, incidentally, his entire election strategy) by jumping in and claiming the “middle ground” between Rubio’s fulsome internationalism and Paul’s call to rein in our extravagant military budget – by siding with Rubio. We can do what Rubio wants to do – radically increase military expenditures – but first, he averred, we have to cut sugar subsidies so we can afford it. This was an attack on Rubio’s enthusiasm for sugar subsidies, without which, avers the Senator from the state that produces the most sugar, “we lose the capacity to produce our own food, at which point we’re at the mercy of a foreign country for food security.” Yes, there’s a jihadist-Iranian-Chinese conspiracy to deprive America of its sweet tooth – but not if President Rubio can stop it!

Cruz is a master at prodding the weaknesses of his opponents, but his math is way off: sugar subsidies have cost us some $15 billion since 2008. Rubio’s proposed military budget – $696 billion – represents a $35 billion increase over what the Pentagon is requesting. Cutting sugar subsidies – an unlikely prospect, especially given the support of Republicans of Rubio’s ilk for the program – won’t pay for it.

However, if we want to go deeper into those weeds, Sen. Paul also endorses the $696 billion figure, but touts the fact that his proposal comes with cuts that will supposedly pay for the hike. This is something all those military contractors can live with, and so everybody’s happy, at least on the Republican side of the aisle, and yet the likelihood of cutting $21 billion from “international affairs,” never mind $20 billion from social services, is unlikely to garner enough support from his own party – let alone the Democrats – to get through Congress. So it’s just more of Washington’s kabuki theater: all symbolism, no action.

Paul’s too-clever-by-half legislative maneuvering may have effectively exposed Rubio – and Sen. Tom Cotton, Marco’s co-pilot on this flight into fiscal profligacy – as the faux-conservative that he is, but it evaded the broader question attached to the issue of military spending: what are we going to do with all that shiny-new military hardware? Send more weapons to Ukraine? Outfit an expeditionary force to re-invade Iraq and venture into Syria? This brings to mind Madeleine Albright’s infamous remark directed at Gen. Colin Powell: “What’s the point of having this superb military you’re always talking about if we can’t use it?”

In this way, Paul undermines his own case against global intervention – and even his own eloquent argument, advanced in answer to Rubio’s contention that increasing the military budget would make us “safer”:

“I do not think we are any safer from bankruptcy court. As we go further, and further into debt, we become less, and less safe. This is the most important thing we’re going to talk about tonight. Can you be a conservative, and be liberal on military spending? Can you be for unlimited military spending, and say, Oh, I’m going to make the country safe? No, we need a safe country, but, you know, we spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined.”

I have to say Sen. Paul shone at this debate. His arguments were clear, consistent, and made with calm forcefulness. He distinguished himself from the pack, including Trump, who said “I agree with Marco, I agree with Ted,” and went on to mouth his usual “bigger, better, stronger” hyperbole that amounted to so much hot hair air.

Speaking of Trumpian hot air: Paul showed up The Donald for the ignorant blowhard he is by pointing out, after another of Trump’s jeremiads aimed at the Yellow Peril, that China is not a party to the trade deal, which is aimed at deflecting Beijing. That was another shining moment for Paul, who successfully juxtaposed his superior knowledge to Trump’s babbling.

This obsession with China’s allegedly malign influence extended to the next round, when foreign policy was again the focus. In answer to a question about whether he supports President Obama’s plan to send Special Operations forces to Syria, Ben Carson said yes, because Russia is going to make it “their base,” oh, and by the way: “You know, the Chinese are there, as well as the Russians.” Unless he’s talking about these guys, Carson intel seems a bit off.

Jeb Bush gave the usual boilerplate, delivered in his preferred monotone, contradicting himself when he endorsed a no-fly zone over Syria and then attacked Hillary Clinton for not offering “leadership” – when she endorsed the idea practically in unison with him. Bush added his usual incoherence to the mix by averring that somehow not intervening more in the region “will have a huge impact on our economy” – but of course the last time we intervened it had a $2 trillion-plus impact in terms of costs, and that’s a conservative estimate.

Oddly characterizing Russia’s air strikes on the Islamic State as “aggression” – do our air strikes count as aggression? – the clueless Marie Bartiromo asked Trump what he intends to do about it. Trump evaded the question for a few minutes, going on about North Korea, Iran, and of course the Yellow Peril, finally coming out with a great line that not even the newly-noninterventionist Sen. Paul had the gumption to muster:

“If Putin wants to go and knock the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it, one-hundred percent, and I can’t understand how anybody would be against it.”

Bush butted in with “But they aren’t doing that,” which is the Obama administration’s demonstrably inaccurate line, and Trump made short work of him with the now undeniable fact that the Islamic State blew up a Russian passenger jet with over 200 people on it. “He [Putin] cannot be in love with these people,” countered Trump. “He’s going in, and we can go in, and everybody should go in. As far as the Ukraine is concerned, we have a group of people, and a group of countries, including Germany – tremendous economic behemoth – why are we always doing the work?”

Why indeed.

Trump, for all his contradictions, gives voice to the “isolationist” populism that Rubio and his neocon confederates despise, and which is implanted so deeply in the American consciousness. Why us? Why are we paying everybody’s bills? Why are we fighting everybody else’s wars? It’s a bad deal!

This is why the neocons hate Trump’s guts even more than they hate Paul. The former, after all, is the frontrunner. What the War Party fears is that Trump’s contradictory mixture of bluster – “bigger, better, stronger!” – and complaints that our allies are taking advantage of us means a victory for the dreaded “isolationists” at the polls.

As for Carly Fiorina and John Kasich: they merely served as a Greek chorus to the exhortations of Rubio and Bush to take on Putin, Assad, Iran, China, and (in Trump’s case) North Korea. They left out Venezuela only because they ran out of time, and breath. Fiorina and Kasich were mirror images of each other in their studied belligerence: both are aspiring vice-presidential running mates for whatever Establishment candidate takes the prize.

Yes, it’s election season, the one time – short of when we’re about to invade yet another country – when the American people are engaged with the foreign policy issues of the day. And what we are seeing is a rising tide of disgust with our policy of global intervention – in a confused inchoate sense, in the case of Trump, and in a focused, self-conscious, occasionally eloquent and yet still slightly confused and inconsistent way in the case of Sen. Paul. Either way, the real voice of the American heartland is being heard.

 

 

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Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:48 | 6790276 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Obviously neo-con are hater of squirrel.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:02 | 6790333 TruxtonSpangler
TruxtonSpangler's picture

This time is different. Voting matters.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:58 | 6790544 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

Sorry, but I'm not going to forget his 'we should go in and take their oil' line about ISIS, and I believe the Iranians as well. He suggested, on live tv, that we should invade other countries and then steal their most valuable natural resource. That doesn't sound isolationist at all. It sounds more dick Cheney-ist to me.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:25 | 6790618 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

it does.  trump consistently sounds as if he is making it up as he goes along, which could be much better than the previous two presidents as they were the worst in history.

hillary clinton could be better, perhaps much better, but judging from her record thus far she will make it three in a row.  it is a strange and alienating world when one must consider voting for someone like trump because he is like rolling dice, not the straight house fix that the central planners intend.

oh and "Yes, it’s election season, the one time – short of when we’re about to invade yet another country – when the American people are engaged with the foreign policy issues of the day."  maybe for the much anticipated invasion of iraq but the invasions of obama came with little fanfare and less initial protest.  that they were eventually largely repudiated by the country is testimony to their vain, gutless, cruel and incompetent execution, imo.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:14 | 6790710 Bumpo
Bumpo's picture

Im not so sure. If you see it in context with Trump's other message to make Mexico pay for the border fence. If you take the Iraq war on the face of it - that is, we came in to rescue them from Saddam Hussein - then taking their oil in payment is only "fair". It's hard to tell if he is playing a game, or actually believes the US company line, though. I think he isn't letting on. At least I hope so. And that goes double for his "Support" of Israel.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 02:56 | 6790885 Joe Trader
Joe Trader's picture

@greenskeeper we get it, you get butt-hurt extremely easily

The thing about Donald Trump and oil - is that a few years ago, he said all that Saudi Arabia had to do was start pumping oil, and down it would go to $25. Guess what sweet cheeks - His prediction is coming true and the presidency could really use a guy like him who knows what he's doing.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:23 | 6791437 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

Say what you like about Trump. 

'He is a baffoon or a blowhard'. 

'He can't be elected president'.

But Trump has rocked the boat and raised some issues and viewpoints that none of the other bought and paid for 'candidates' would ever have raised.

Has he changed the national discussion on these issues?  At least he woken some people up.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:34 | 6791493 illyia
illyia's picture

oh.my.gawd. a rational adult series of comments on zero hedge: There is hopium for the world, after all.

Just must say: Raimondo is an incredibly good writer. Very enjoyable to read. I am sure that's why he's still around. He make a clear, concise argument, presents his case with humor and irony and usually covers every angle.

I wonder about people like him, who think things out so well... versus, say, the bloviator and chief?

P.S. don't blame me, i did not vote for either of them...

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 10:51 | 6791791 Oracle of Kypseli
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The sentence of "We relied on the stupidity of the American voter" resonates.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 07:40 | 6791158 Supernova Born
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This article has 8 reads?

150+ comments and 8 reads? WTF?

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 11:09 | 6791884 svayambhu108
svayambhu108's picture

Worse: 26 Votes and 8 reads !?!

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 12:39 | 6792302 chunga
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That's gotta be the diebold plugin for mysql at work.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:36 | 6791189 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Screw Rubio, Jeb, and preemptively Romney.

 

Ben and Cruz can stay......If we could also get Ted's dad......that would be awesome.

 

Donald....should we build the wall?

 

It's 4 oclock in the morning....and the phone is ringing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdvIUHw31js

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:27 | 6791460 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Country needs another Bush or Clinton as much as it needs another term with the Queen fudgepacker.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 19:23 | 6793970 SirIssacNewton
SirIssacNewton's picture

Amen!  I know we live in a faux Republic, but.... come on people..... let us purge ourselves of the Bush, Clinton dynasties.   Pretty soon we'll have Chelsea Clinton trying to put her ass in the ring.  Jeb Bushwabber, Hilliar Cunton and many more need to be banned for life from politics and from voicing their opinions ever again.

The Donald.... at this point, I will vote for any president that will, at least, slow the MIC, the wars and put some focus on reversing/eliminating the Patriotic Act.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:11 | 6791215 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

8 reads. 150+ comments.

Weird.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:48 | 6791306 Arnold
Arnold's picture

Its your platform dude.

 

 

--Sixty year old guy

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:20 | 6790724 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

I've been thinking: "Yeah, Trump 2016. Let's just fuck it all up a bit"...then i saw this video clip tonight

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-questions-carsons-pathological-temper-faith-...

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:29 | 6790743 zhandax
zhandax's picture

'we should go in and take their oil'

Carl, I might agree with you if it had ever worked out that way.  Seems like all we got out of the last 12 years in the middle east is a lot of poppy growing acreage.  And you and I both know none of the profits from that little moneymaker will ever benefit the 'Merican public.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:28 | 6790979 One And Only
One And Only's picture

black lives.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 07:37 | 6791153 Anonymous User
Anonymous User's picture

Black lives needs to be fucked.

Doggy style. MWEAHAHAHA

 

http://www.thepornster.net/video/298/

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:15 | 6791221 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

I'm Scandinavian.

 

I was a cracker.....before being a cracker was cool.

 

Don't worry about us....worry about the Latinos....they've got a bone to pick with you.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:41 | 6791511 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

Not in my yard. In my yard they have weeds to pick. "Put your back into it there, Pepe!"

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:44 | 6791290 Arnold
Arnold's picture

I completely endorse Hillary for POTUS 2016.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 16:45 | 6793436 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

I ALMOST gave you a thumbs up on your point about Trump until you brought up Hillary Clinton.  Neocon Victoria Nuland is one of her people.  

The reason why Trump is leading is because he's a republican in the business sense- and just look at his competition.  
He's got to run against Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.  Trump got lucky this year.  

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:58 | 6790800 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

What you did, was you fell for the oldest press trick in the book. It's called: "out of context". Thats is where they play back only a sigment of what someone says, only a part of what they want you to hear, so you will draw the wrong conclusion. What Trump said {had you listened to ALL of what he said} was that he was going to TAKE ISIL'S OIL. Oil is the largest source of revenue for them {then comes the CIA money}. If you were to remove their oil revenues from them, they would be seriously hurting for cash to fund their machine. I don't have a problem with that.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:27 | 6790977 One And Only
One And Only's picture

black lives matter you fucking dick.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:18 | 6791229 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Neocon troll.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:27 | 6791252 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Uh-huh.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 10:06 | 6791594 JRobby
JRobby's picture

"we should invade other countries and then steal their most valuable natural resource"

This is empire, this is what has been going on forever under the flimsey guise of "doing right". Get the power away from the neocon war mongers and focus it domestically on emergy and infrastructure.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:40 | 6790764 SixIsNinE
SixIsNinE's picture

/s    got your back Trux, no sweat

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:22 | 6791434 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Fuk da neocons.... Fukem all.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 11:59 | 6792116 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

It's not isolationist to feel like we're overextended in every direction, financially, militarily etc. We have a big government that's doing a lot of things it shouldn't, either directly or indirectly through other people and a lot of it the citizens of the US don't know about except for what's come out via Snowden et al.

A lot of what Trump says is attractive to people because it represents action instead of hope and pocket change. Do I think he'd be a good president? I don't know..maybe? But I do know that at least he's not an establishment dweeb, and that means something.

I can't endorse Rubio, he's turned out to be just another empty suit.

Then again in the end does the voting really matter? Probably not, the democrats will always have the full fledged support of those who prepetually rely on the .gov checks they need to survive in a standard of living befitting them (read I deserve this).

In the end I just don't believe we should be starting wars that are only creating more hate and discontent for the US. Eventually, like Paris, I see more attacks here, and it won't be because they hate our freedom, it was never about that to begin with. It's because we're in their country uninvited wreaking all sorts of havoc.

It's time we learned to leave people alone and let things run their course. If at some point we're actually a threat of national security here at home then call out the troops, until that time leave other countries alone.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:48 | 6790278 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Black Lives Matter.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:53 | 6790301 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

O Lives Matter

(at least to owner of orchard in Mediterranean).

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:11 | 6790367 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Feel the Bern...lmmfao!

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:19 | 6790381 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Black lives really do matter. I swear.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:22 | 6790408 l8apex
l8apex's picture

To who?  Or is that to whom?  

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:39 | 6790482 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Bass lives matter.  But tell that to the evil corporate overlords that created the Bass-o-matic.  Mmm, good bass indeed.  Fuckers.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:05 | 6790694 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Black Lives Matter.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:10 | 6790704 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Bass lives matter.  That's the whole bass.  http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bassomatic/n8631

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 03:56 | 6790948 One And Only
One And Only's picture

BLACK LIVES MATTER

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:06 | 6791204 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Stop making crap up....and maybe it would.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:24 | 6790970 One And Only
One And Only's picture

BLACK LIVES MATTER

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:14 | 6791223 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Neocon troll poster.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:28 | 6791254 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Almost certainly.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:52 | 6790787 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

Black lives matter to whom? Not to other blacks, thats for sure. Thats only for whitey I guess. Another white guilt program.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 03:57 | 6790950 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Look. The black lives.

.....they mater.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 05:34 | 6791036 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Parotting yourself earns you my downvote

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 06:47 | 6791089 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Bass lies matter. But, who doesn't lie about fishing? For instance, those boating accidents, with the missing Maine National Guard M-60's, M-79's, and the three ancient Redeye manpads?

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:27 | 6790433 booboo
booboo's picture

"Black lives really do matter"

Tell that to the blacks that are killing blacks. 93% of black murders are committed by.....................blacks.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:04 | 6790690 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Black Lives matter.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:08 | 6791210 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

It's not the crackers you have to worry about.....it's the Latinos.

 

They're gonna rip you a new asshole.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:16 | 6790594 JamaicaJim
JamaicaJim's picture

I swear too. Fuck the fuck off.

 

1,861  - that's how many black babies are aborted - DAILY - by these same black people who's lives "mattter"

 

wanna link, smokie?

 

www.blackgenocide.org

chew on that....AND THEN STOP WITH THE ASININE BLACK LIVES MATTER HORSESHIT...........

 

CAUSE EVEN TO MOTHERFUCKING BLACKS....THEY DON'T

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:33 | 6790639 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

depends on how you look at it.  the women aborting probably think their (black) lives matter and will be improved without bearing the child.

if a mother wants to abort a fetus, how good a childhood is that fetus likely to have if given birth?  contraception is best, imo, but abortion is better than the alternative in many, perhaps most, cases.  i would think black orphans are a hard sell.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:03 | 6790688 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Black Lives Matter

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 07:11 | 6791114 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

But they seem to matter less when its black lives taken by other blacks which happens by orders of magnitude more often than white cops needlessly using lethal force.

And by the way - cops killed twice as many whites last year, including some egregious cases - why no news coverage?

Theres an element of real intellectual dishonesty here.

And of course black lives matter. But how anout black on black or for that matter black on white violence?

That knockout game was about targeting whites in large part - that got buried by the press except for fox, but fox is a bastion of right wing neocon propaganda - laughably so. But the leftie sites wont cover it why, exactly.

For all the hate on the right there is plenty of fucking stupid and myopic and silly on the left

But liberty versus tyranny is more important than any of that right now.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:32 | 6791262 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

And by the way - cops killed twice as many whites last year

 

I'm calling Billy Bob and Tammy Sue.....we're not taking this crap laying down.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:25 | 6790739 JamaicaJim
JamaicaJim's picture

ANY way you slice it, it's bullshit.

I had one black asshole tell me it was mental; that "400 years of slavery" does that. In a round about way, this jag off was saying it's the white man's fault.

I looked at him like sniffing effluvium and snickered...walked away.

Fucking blacks in America cannot even procreate their own race - and they want "respect" and all this shit (like Mizzu is going through)  -and this cuntrag "Black Lives Matter" fecal matter.

FUCK THEM!

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:25 | 6790972 One And Only
One And Only's picture

black lives matter

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:20 | 6791235 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Neocon trolling of an important thread.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:24 | 6791242 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Yup.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:24 | 6791240 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

black lives matter

 

Start your 1000 Black Reich then.....impress us.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 02:09 | 6790819 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Chip on their shoulder that becomes a wall between their life and Main Street.  Anger is centuries old and misdirected; otherwise it would have diffused.  When in my early 20s, I recall me and a neighbor woman were interesting in getting hold of some smoke, Friday night...going out dancing.  We found a guy, gave him some $ and waited for him to bring us the product.  He never shows up.  Her husband knows where he lives, so after 3 hours, we pack into my car and drive over there.  Seems he spent the money on a date (concert) and it was gone.  Before he could even finish, "I don't have your money," she had a butcher knife at his throat and screaming find it muthafucker or you is going to DIE."  Her husband held her arm while the guy began pleading for his life.  No one got hurt and the guy asked his mother (lived at home - white guy) and out came the money.  what a scary night that was.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:25 | 6790974 One And Only
One And Only's picture

black lives matter

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:14 | 6791224 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Neocon troll.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:51 | 6791319 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

He's got Chamber of Congress funding.....this might take a while.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:05 | 6791342 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

This thread is the funkiest behaving thread I've ever come across on ZH.

Weird read count, posts come and go, votes come and go.

Weirdest thing is...when I wonder if I am phantom posting/shadow banned...YOU show up to interact with me.

Thanks, I'd be lonely without you.

/s

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:25 | 6791450 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Weird read count, posts come and go, votes come and go.

 

The NSA sez.....hi.

 

Wave back to them.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 11:37 | 6792015 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

"black lives matter"

Abortion matters.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:41 | 6790769 SixIsNinE
SixIsNinE's picture

no shit - all lives matter -= what are you smoking tonight?

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:26 | 6790975 One And Only
One And Only's picture

black lives matter

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 06:56 | 6791096 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

I remember seeing then Sgt Doe have his American Black Lives Matter party on a beach in Monrovia. Tied'm to poles, thoses returned to Africa , Washington D.C. blacks and shot them. Me sittting on the hood of a Suzuki jeep,

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:58 | 6791344 stant
stant's picture

#Blacklabsmatter

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:00 | 6791352 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

I prefer the tan ones....but I'm not married to it.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 19:26 | 6793976 SirIssacNewton
SirIssacNewton's picture

How about ALL Lives Matter!  Get real. 

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:51 | 6790288 Skip
Skip's picture

Why So Much Jewish Fear And Loathing Of Donald Trump?
By Kevin MacDonald, PhD October 29, 2015

As often noted here, mainstream Jewish political attitudes and behavior in the US, from the far Left to the neoconservative right, has always been directed at lessening the demographic, political, and cultural power of White America. This is exemplified by the successful campaign to enact the 1965 immigration law and, even more significant, the continued support for high levels of immigration by the entire organized Jewish community.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:37 | 6790478 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

You can only down vote the above post if you are  a Jewish Supremacist or just ignorant. Those who are ignorant of History on this issue, as well documented by Professor McDonald and many others  --- please do not comment.  I'm so sick of ignorant people expressing opinions on important subjects on matters that they know NOTHING about. 

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:55 | 6790540 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Yeah, everybody just Shut The Fuck Up!

Where's my safe place?

ZH needs to provide us with a safe place so we don't have to read anyone else's opinion on anything.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:36 | 6790648 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

pure funny

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:01 | 6791322 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

 

ZH needs to provide us with a safe place so we don't have to read anyone else's opinion on anything.

 

With catering please.

 

Just don't declare marshall law and turn it into Kitco.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:05 | 6790693 Takeaction2
Takeaction2's picture

I love it...The ZH Free of Hate zone.....I can start it right here....

The flowers are so gorgeous today.  Hmmm...which flowers? And saying something is "Gorgeous" could offend others thnking they are not gorgeous...

The sun shines so bright...it makes me smile.  THe sun is yellow, so are you "Pro Yellow" and against "DARK"....and some can't smile because of loss of teeth and embarasment.  THat could hurt them.

How politically correct are we going to get?

FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUU

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:13 | 6791218 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

I suspect hes saying mcdonalds theory or theories are empirically accurate, and a dissenting opinion can then only be downvoting someone for no good reason than denial of that truth.

Is the proposition 'jewish people have disproportionate political power' a false claim or a true one, taken only to mean what that proposition indicates?

It is impossible to claim the prop is 'false' ..Negging there indicates not wanting a truth mentioned, not that it is false.

I think thats the idea. (?'

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:45 | 6790775 SixIsNinE
SixIsNinE's picture

yep, we've got to call out the racist Jewish Supremacists NOW - and wake up the rest of our friends of USA regular JEWS who are NOT Supremacists but got zucked up into the BS that they are "special" and "exceptional" ... 

remember kiddies, the ELITES want us fighting amongst ourselves so as to be preoccupied and distracted from their shenanigans to loot us and kill us.

There are a very small number of these "supremacist" families here ... they have been listed ... it's not too late for you near them to turn away and LEAVE their psychopathic ways ....

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 16:54 | 6793463 combatsnoopy
combatsnoopy's picture

Fallacy of false outcome FOOL.

#1. You're really a piece of work if you're actually AFRAID of Jews.  The RICH Jews in the U.S. can't suffer anything like a line at Disneyland or camping.  Some might hit the books, talent is within range of everybody else.  Except decorating.  Sorry. 

#2. Because Jews bought ugly gas guzzling lifted trucks and SUVs to secure petrodollar in money market accouts that finance bank liquidity to prop up horrific market bubbles... Oh wait, that would be mostly American BABY BOOMERS. American baby boomers are not synonymous with the Jewish religion/ethnicity and your meth habit doesn't look so good on you Mr. White Supremacy.

Loser you are.  I'm an American and I'm incredibly embarrassed by you, your meth headed white supremacy fiends and those who allie with you under that line of vapid gullibility.  WEAK. 

The U.S. HAD the most advanced weaponry/tech.  The BOOMERS decided to screw everyone else out of upward mobility by pricing us all out with these counterfeit value inflated market bubbles because they're threatened.  They're threatened because they're junkie losers-ask yourself why racism = drug abuse.  Because it does.  And this crowd is the entitlement posse with hands extended for entitlements from the U.S. taxpayers.

This is going to set the U.S. far behind in competition and survivability in the GLOBAL markets.  

Putin isn't the enemy either.  The enemy are the anti-competative entitlement minded kleptocracy enforced white trash caste system.

Big fucking baby you are.  

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 10:01 | 6791546 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

Same with mainstream Protestants. Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and even Baptists such as the Rockefeller clan. They have been directing their actions against white, middle-class America for generations too. And there's a helluva lot more of them than there are of ZHer's boogymen, the Jews. In light of which, I would suggest taking it under serious consideration that you are full of shit. 

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:54 | 6790293 Zero-Hegemon
Zero-Hegemon's picture

For all his talk, still not sure what team Trump is pitching for, other than Team Trump.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:13 | 6790371 Escrava Isaura
Escrava Isaura's picture

 

 

The same as Obama in 08, Obama followers, as well as Trump followers:

 

Hope and Change.

 

Wondering why of such naiveté?

 

Are religious really this stupid?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wifUXxsOPMA

 

“The naive doesn’t see the danger until it is at his throat.” — Noam Chomsky

 

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:04 | 6790564 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Sadly, people are clinging to just about anything right now.

Between the collapse of the US empire and those that have memories of what the US used to resemble.

Admittedly, the US my early years in no way resembles what the US resembled in my parents formative years, but it definitely didn't resemble anything we have today, not even the 60's.

So, just like people held out hope that the Republicans would do something in the 2014 Congressional races we're once again hoping that someone will go to Washington and actually represent middle class Americans.

If Trump gets elected and fails to deliver on his campaign promises......who knows.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:47 | 6790779 SixIsNinE
SixIsNinE's picture

Escrava, you know it's " Hoax & Chainz"  come on .... don't give them an inch in their programming ...

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:28 | 6791468 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

Escrava wants to turn the US into Venezuela.

 

Oddly that's where the plan abruptly stops.

 

 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 03:55 | 6790947 hxc
hxc's picture

Chomsky is a fucking retard. Intellectually dishonest, and only excels in making word salads (being a "linguist," after all).

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 10:03 | 6791576 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

Noam Chomsky? Seriously? The same Noam Chomsky who was singing the glories of the Chicoms when Mao was in the process of murdering millions? Yeah okay, let's talk about "naive," shall we?

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 11:40 | 6792030 MalteseFalcon
MalteseFalcon's picture

Chomsky = limited hangout = intellectual cul-de-sac for the nascent dissident.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 12:58 | 6792387 Money Boo Boo
Money Boo Boo's picture

troll salad of three doodes who've never read chomsky

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:14 | 6790592 juangrande
juangrande's picture

Nothing pleases the Donald more than looking in the mirror. But if it rocks the status quo boat, Trumpamonos!

 

Oh wait. He pissed off the chicanos already and you can't when the big one w/o them. Maybe he just wants a bigger deal with whichever archaic, pandering TV network??

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:54 | 6790300 Francis Marx
Francis Marx's picture

I dont know about the Neo-cons, but if Obozo keeps doing and saying the stupidist things, That will all the more help trump to get elected.  Obozo is completly oblivious to that.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:12 | 6790370 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

So, what you're saying is we should elect Hillary or Jeb or Rubio?

Or, maybe Hillary for Prez, Jeb for VP, and Rubio for Speaker.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 10:05 | 6791587 Jstanley011
Jstanley011's picture

The Trumpster is a right-wing statist, ying to Obama's yang of a moonbat statist. I hope he gets elected just as the economy tanks into The Really Great Depression. It will serve this dumbassed country perfectly right.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:54 | 6790302 homiegot
homiegot's picture

It's because he doesn't need the banker's money. 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:34 | 6790536 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

The thing about understanding the attack on The Donald is understanding what he is NOT. Namely he is not CFR connected:
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/08/24/trump-catches-attention-of...

The attacks on Trump have been relentless yet he is still maintaining his position in the polls.

I expected a take out on Ben Carson, his next closest competitor to move up a CFR-aligned Globalist like Shrubio or Cruz given their fall-back JEBPNAC is tanking so bad...but not this early. They must be getting desperate...so desperate they are considering Romney?!

If it becomes 'Reagan/Bush Redux' again with Trump/Cruz, I hope The Donald has enough sense to say NO! or, if elected, be very vigilant knowing you are Reagan and you have the GHW Bush equivalent standing there to replace you...and we know how that unfolded early in Reagan's first term...NOT GOOD

EDIT: The goal is to have a CFR candidate in both the GOP and Dem fold. Although Hillary is not a CFR member ostensibly Slick Willie has been for more than 20 years and his Administration was rife with them...Hello Rubin and Glass Steagal!!..as is Chelsea... a newly elected member.

So that red vote I just got...was that you Hill?

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:54 | 6790679 bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Note:  I am a legal alien in US

http://general.mtstars.com/430655.html

What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America ?

I, Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament."

I interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, "Illegal aliens pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes. What happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?"

Hmmm, I thought, what would happen?

So I did my due diligence, buried my nose as a reporter into the FACTS I found below.

It's a good question... it deserves an honest answer. Over 80% of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America ? The answers I found may surprise you!

In California , if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico , it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.

In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grandchildren would move back "home," mostly to Mexico. That would save Colorado an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs.

It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.

Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.

Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67% dropout/flunk rate because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado . Denver's 4% unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

In Florida , 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to America , the rule of law, and English.

In Chicago , Illinois , 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home,' the U.S. economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.

No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.

We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.

In cities like L.A. , 20,000 members of the ' 18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!

Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!

America's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy which currently suffers a $20 trillion debt. $20 trillion debt!!!

At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California, Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act.

Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our country - brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.

Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11% of our greenhouse gases.

Over one million of Mexico's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville, Texas, to San Diego, California, in what the New York Times called, 'colonias' or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, roads, electricity, or any kind of sanitation.

The New York Times reported them to be America 's new ' Third World ' inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas and Arizona ; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.)

By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico . We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries and/or make a better life in Mexico . We already invite a million people into our country legally annually, more than all other countries combined. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation.

It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life. Interesting Statistics!

Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate America, and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:

1. $14 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens (that's Billion with a 'B')

3. $7.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they still cannot speak a word of English

5. $27 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

6. $3 Million Dollars 'PER DAY' is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. That's $1.2 Billion a year.

7. 28% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
8. $190 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by the American taxpayers. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0610/29/ldt.01.html"; http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0610/29/ldt.01.html"; http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0610/29/ldt.01.html http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .

11. During the year 2005, there were 8 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from other terrorist countries. Over 10,000 of those were middle-eastern terrorists. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin, crack, guns, and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border.

12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $65 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin, to their families and friends.

14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States !
Total cost a whopping $538.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:17 | 6790706 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Dude, you should be POTUS.

You make more sense than all the rest of the aholes including Trump.

You should email this to Trump's campaign headquarters to see if he'll take advantage of this glorious post.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 02:33 | 6790830 zhandax
zhandax's picture

He has similarities to POTUS.  He is willing to believe anything that sounds sellable to the electorate.   I looked up Tina Griego and the results didn't remind me of someone who would write that article.  So I looked further, and found what the real Tina Greigo said about it in print, in the Denver Post.

" 

Griego: One thing's true: People believe what they want By Tina Griego
Denver Post Columnist
Posted:   06/08/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT18 Comments | Updated:   5 years ago

 

So, here's a funny thing. A few years ago, a local man wrote an Internet column. You can find his name on your own if you're so inclined. He called it, "What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America."

He referenced a column I wrote about a conversation with a visiting Mexican journalist. She asked what would happen if 20 million illegal immigrants returned to Mexico. She was talking about their economic contribution here, the taxes paid, the purchases of goods and services.

This question provoked our local man, prompting him to pen the aforementioned cyber-column.

Here's a highlight: "In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grandkids would move back 'home' mostly to Mexico. That would save an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone. Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs and the terrors that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens."

It gets better. The unemployment rate would vanish; employers would pay a living wage; the air would be cleaner because, as we all know, "illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse gases."

Wait, that's not the funny part. The funny part is that people think I wrote it.

You know the children's game Operator? Someone whispers a sentence to the next person who whispers it to the next person and so on until the words, mangled now, reach the last person. Something similar happened here. That cyber-column went everywhere online. Along the way, the local man's name disappeared from many versions, and I became known as the author. I tried to correct the record when this first happened almost three years ago.

Alas, nothing ever disappears on the Internet. It remains dormant until Arizona passes a controversial law targeting illegal immigrants. It's like electricity jolting Frankenstein. The column, now attributed to me, is resurrected. Copied word-for-fictional-word. Forwarded along to be forwarded along until my e-mail is full of queries. They tend to fall into three categories: a) God Bless You, You're a Patriot, b) Where Do These Numbers Come From and c) What Kind of Idiot Are You?

For the pure, ornery heck of it, I called Mary Dulacki, our fair city's record coordinator for the Office of the Manager of Safety. You want numbers, she's got them. I called her three years ago too. You have any updated numbers on illegal immigrant gangsters and inmates in the city and county of Denver, I ask her. She says, and I quote, Where does this stuff come from?

It is impossible to know how many gang members in the city are illegal immigrants. Only upon arrest and incarceration, might we get some clue. In regard to the latter, Dulacki is able to provide some information.

Last year, the Denver city/county jail saw 46,884 "book-ins." A person can be booked-in more than once. I'd like to provide you with an unduplicated head count, but the city doesn't keep track that way. Dulacki can say that by year's end, 1,853 jail inmates had been reported to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement as foreign-born. She also can say that from July to December, when the city started keeping track, ICE came for 410 inmates. (Caveat: ICE doesn't pick up every jailed illegal immigrant for various reasons — higher priorities, resources. It's been a sore spot.)

The Colorado Department of Corrections website provides a handy monthly inmate report. As of January, 22,910 people were incarcerated in the adult and juvenile systems. Of those, 1,783 were foreign born, and of those, 1,270 had an ICE hold on them. It was a typical month.

I tell you this knowing the argument isn't really about the numbers. It's not about the stats or the stories, which we can bend and twist and, if not bound by ethics, fictionalize, to lend credence to our own points of view. We are biased creatures, all too willing to accept that which reinforces our beliefs, and so a man from Arizona forwards the e-mail column with the words: "Somebody really did their homework on this one. Best on the subject to present date."

 

The numbers are a prop, arranged to support a larger argument and, in this case, it's a cultural one. "It's time to stand up for . . . our way of life," the local man wrote back then. Culture always has been the subtext of immigration, legal and illegal, past and present.

Language, custom, tradition, the assimilation of smaller groups into larger, the dignity of the individual, the clash and contribution of various world views. What does it mean to be an American? Who is included, and who is excluded and why?

Big, hard and not-particularly-funny questions no amount of drummed-up statistics and wishful thinking will answer.

Tina Griego writes Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. Reach her at 303-954-2699 or tgriego@denverpost.com.

 

Not that I would object to forward this if it were not 1) five years old and 2) written by someone of dubious qualifications to fact check, and 3) given distribution by false attribution.  I have wasted enough time on this already.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 03:07 | 6790905 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Dude should fact check.  I already debunked that horseshit once tonight and Food Fight Tyler had it deleted.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 04:44 | 6790993 kbohip
kbohip's picture

If it sounds to good to be true, it is.  First of all, the Rocky Mountain News has not been published since 2009.  Secondly, "Tina Griego" hasn't written an article for the Denver Post (the only newspaper in Denver) since 2012, I know, as I just checked.  Third, the Denver Post is a complete and total liberal rag and would NEVER allow an article as brilliant as the one above to go out!  

Sadly, since whoever really did write the above is attributing it to someone who I know didn't write it, it casts doubt on the accuracy of it's contents.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 07:35 | 6791146 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

I say we take the "risk" and see what happens after deporting 20 million.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:17 | 6791227 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

But it simply is not going to happen. Dont you get that yet?

Focus should be on stopping the bleeding - close the border. Use national guard. But even that wont happen

But no way such mass deports could be done, and if it could, politically dems block it and if tried in part youll have riots.

Latino gangs in SoCal constiitute an army.

What if Putin's countermove was to 'incite' them?

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 09:02 | 6791361 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

Outstanding, +1000

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:55 | 6790307 Zero-Hegemon
Zero-Hegemon's picture

Perhaps "Trump" is a trigger warning to micro-agression of Zionist safe spaces.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 22:57 | 6790313 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

>>>>> .... in order to keep the Chinese from constructing artificial islands a few miles off their own coastline...<<<<

Few miles?? How about looking at a map before writing stupid things which discredit your entire article.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:13 | 6790377 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

He's also got a blind spot if he thinks the Iranians aren't building a nuclear weapon or currently have one but are being discreet about it.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:48 | 6790516 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Oh shit!  We'd better build another few thousand to counter their one.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:06 | 6790571 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

Yep. At least. I've yet to hear anyone other than one of the clowns seeking office offer any credible source saying the Iranians are building nuclear weapons. Pretty much every single source, even American ones, say they aren't. Unless you count bibi's little bomb picture from a while back. Maybe that's where the above poster is getting his info. These dickheads have been claiming the Iranians were 'only months away' from completing a nuclear weapon since the 90s yet they still don't have one.

If all this need to do something to prevent the evil doers from using their soon to be completed(or hidden stockpiles of) WMDs it's because it's exactly what we were told in the lead up to Iraq. That one turned out to be bullshit, as have all the rest. Why anyone thinks this isn't remains a mystery to me.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:27 | 6790631 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

How the fuck do you know what they have or don't have.

I don't believe anything that comes out of anywhere. Not Justin or Washington or the Iranians.

Maybe their just really good guys with a bad rap from Washington and now that the treaty has been signed they'll open up their economy and let women progress, stop killing homo's, hug their jewish neighbors, stop supporting Hezbollah, and plot a course for all of mankind to follow.

Let's see. Im Iran and building intercontinental ballistic missiles. What are they for? If I'm peaceful and have no war like intentions against my neighbors why would I need missiles. Is it because my neighbors have them? My neighbors have nuclear weapons, Pakistan, India, China, and Israel. They also have nuclear missiles but I don't really need a nuclear weapon just the balistic missiles.

Tra, la, la, la, la.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 07:55 | 6791182 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

Well you dont know much about the iran shit, thats clear.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:16 | 6790595 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The point is Justin seems to believe the Iranians have no intention of building a nuclear bomb ever.

I've read a lot of this guy's writing ever since he first came out on his own website and when he wrote for AsiaTimesOnline.

He's always had the opinion that the Iranians are not building a nuclear bomb and have no intention to do so.

He spews the same talking points about how they've never attacked anyone in over two hundred years.

Well that's because previously they were under the control of the Ottoman empire and that didn't break up until after WW1.

I think he's got a blind spot in this regard.

You can't tell me that even the Japanese aren't secretly building nuclear weapons since China is becoming militarily aggressive.

And, stop being a prick. Your micro-aggressing against my safe place LTER and I'm gonna have to report you for "hurtful" speech.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:25 | 6790617 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What ME country wouldn't want a nuke in this fucked up world run by neocons?  Sorry, but I've reported your micro-aggressing against my micro-aggressing to the Vatican.  They shall be conducting an exorcism shortly, but I've asked them to be polite.  Instead of "Christ compels you," I've asked them to say "A Diety or other power of your choosing respectfully requests that you leave, if that's okay."

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:48 | 6790660 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Exorcisms don't work cause if they did then they could just exorcise the ole devil and his minions off the earth, now couldn't they.

And, if exorcisms worked then why didn't they exorcise the ole devil out of all them pedophile priests instead of passing them from parish to parish to molest and bugger even more innocent children.

Hmmmm.

Catholicism is just a pseudo religious construct created by the Jews to control the gentiles. I mean St. Peter was a Jew and he created the Catholic church right? Jesus was a Jew and his supposed teachings were the basis for Christianity, right?

Of course the New Testament was written years, some say decades or even centuries after Christ was crucified which of course means it's all based on hearsay evidence since there weren't any iPhones around to record everything.

Of course, two thousand years later it's rather difficult to sort all this out since everything is rather muddied due to shoddy record keeping. Ya know, they didn't have the cloud back then so they could have a central repository for all his comings and goings.

Best to go with that Mohammed fellow since he also flew up to heaven back around 1400 years ago. He didn't need to be crucified to become a deity, although being Arabic he's rather Semitic.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:56 | 6790675 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I have an equal amount of respect for all organized religion, in that I detest them all.  But especially the Muzzies.  At least most of the other major religions believe in alcohol, though the Catholics win on that front.  

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:46 | 6790778 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

I watched the story of Muhammed on the History channel and quickly came to the conclusion that the entire Islam religion is based on some asshole having a hear attach and then bunch of epileptic episodes.

Instead of watching him twitch and waiting for him to come to so that they could write down his inane ramblings they should have shoved his stinking body up an elephants ass and give the animal some excitement.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:03 | 6791196 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

You ignorant slut.

https://theintercept.com/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-...

20 years plus of this accusation. Cia and dia both said no mil program.

If you have evidence summon it. Offering your suspicion as evidence is fucking absurd.

And if the israelis werent hell bent on taking the rest of palestine and brutalizing the natives (which, by and large, they actually are) that would sure wet some of the anti isrsel powder.

But no / they want lebensraum and years of war for expansion and regional total hegemony.

Thrn they can ethnically cleanse the historical inhabitants while everyones busy watching white european christisns kill each other, and muslims, as isis keeps not attacking israel or even isrseli interests.

Youre not dumb, you just reached conclusions that are very weakened of not refuted by evidence you wont even consider.

https://theintercept.com/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-...

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 08:22 | 6791231 Raymond_K._Hessel
Raymond_K._Hessel's picture

Neocon nonsense. Zero evidence, refuted by us intel, 20 yesrs of crying wolf, and you claim they are? Because why - theyre enriching uranium?

They have inspections, they can not prove a negative. At what point with 20 years of bibi saying they were 'months away' do you begin to consider its another wmds and yellowcake pretextual lie?

Fuck you, stupid. Youre a big part of the problem.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:04 | 6790567 uhland62
uhland62's picture

It's a bit tongue in cheek, but compared to the distance to the US it could be interpreted as a few. But the people he talks about in this context are not worried about a few miles or a few miles more from the Chinese mainland. They should be worried, of course, because the islands could cause a shortage of merchandise in walmart. The people who it concers more, like it's in their 'hood' are the Phiippinos. They never develop to have strength in the neibourhood so they have put in for arbitration or what the international process is. 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:34 | 6790642 bonin006
bonin006's picture

"They should be worried, of course, because the islands could cause a shortage of merchandise in walmart."

Are you saying the Chinese military is building bases on the islands to stop Chinese businesses from exporting to the US?

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:19 | 6790720 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Only if those items are coming out of Vietnamese factories.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 13:21 | 6792492 Baa baa
Baa baa's picture

The Vietnamese are not at all happy with the island building.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 13:19 | 6792480 Baa baa
Baa baa's picture

On my map the Spratleys are a hell of a long way from China. The map however, is a few years old.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:01 | 6790325 bilbert
bilbert's picture

Two Dollars on the Trump/Paul ticket, please........

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:10 | 6790361 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Paul would be smart to take such an opportunity should it arise. If he could negotiate some guaranteed policy clout, he'd get more done holding the Donald's water than being the junior senator from Kentucky.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:31 | 6790453 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Paul has no chance  -but he is really good on most of the issues - he could really help Trump by providing some reason and rational basis for foreign policy positions and issues financial like the Fed. The ticket could work out good. Paul could compliment trump well and would help bring in and energize his father's exuberant supporters from years past. 

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 02:27 | 6790836 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Trump/Carson for the win, $10 wager

And I no longer vote national politics.  Voting means nothing except for local, home town, issues.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 13:17 | 6792463 Baa baa
Baa baa's picture

"...All politics are local..."

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:05 | 6790345 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I cannot take Trump seriously. I get why some, even many like him but there is not enough substance, principle or even self control there. In him versus Hillary, yeah, but right now there are plenty of others on the stage to choose from.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:13 | 6790374 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Of the guys who can win as it stands I think your choice is Trump or Rubio. Unless Carson gets a complete blowout in Iowa he's toast because he's gonna get shellacked in New Hampshire. By that point the RNC donor types will have circled the wagons for Rubio. Trump or Rubio. Pick your poison.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:17 | 6790395 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I'm gonna pick Hillary because I want "Safe Places", an end to micro-aggressions, and all forms of "hurtful" speech eliminated from the internet and college campuses.

It's for the children, because they're our future.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:11 | 6790583 JamaicaJim
JamaicaJim's picture

Uh....You forgot the god damned, motherfucking SARC button.........yes?

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:20 | 6790722 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I am PURE EVIL, you figure it out.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:51 | 6790784 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

I wish I was anywhere between 18 to 28 right now.. I would go to college campuses and make them cry.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 02:28 | 6790839 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Your 'safe space' is in my fuckin' way!  Move, bitch!!

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 05:39 | 6791045 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yeah, "It Takes a Village" (Idiot, that is!)

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:23 | 6790414 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

If you examine the policy detail Trump has provided, there is more substance there than any of the others.  Add to that he has a long record of successful management, which none of the others have.

You don't manage successfully without self control.  The persona he presents in politics at present may give the impression of a lack of self control, yet that persona and the policies which are/were verboten to the policial class have quickly taken him to the top of the pack and kept him there.

If you apply to Trump the saying "judge people by what they do, not what they say", his achievements out of politics and now in politics show he is a more capable person than any of the others and that he is successful at what he sets out to do.

As the economy for most Americans continues to worsen, which is baked in the cake, who is going to look to the public a more credible person to turn it around, Clinton? Trump? one of the others?  The answer is pretty obvious.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:39 | 6790469 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

replied to wrong message (see below).

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 02:31 | 6790842 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

"If you examine the policy detail Trump has provided, there is more substance there than any of the others."

What fuckin' policy detail?!

Link please, I would find that interesting.

So far, all of them have just given specious statements.

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 00:27 | 6790633 European American
European American's picture

"I cannot take Trump seriously."

It's not about Trump as President, a year from now. Who knows if he'll even be in the picture by then. It's ALL about Trump, RIGHT NOW. He's exposing the underbelly of a vile, hideous Z-creature that we, here at ZH have seen for some time, but the masses, those who haven't connected enought dots, yet, are getting a glimpse of something that has been foreign in politics, up until now. Everytime Trump is interviewed, or tweets or stands at the debates, another round is shot over the bow, or beak, of the monster creature that has been sucking the life out of humanity for decades, centuries, eons. As long as he's standing and he can pull it off, that is what this phenomenon is all about...one day at a time....shedding light where the stench of darkness has been breeding corruption for the last millenium.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:10 | 6790362 Wow72
Wow72's picture

His immigration policy is sounding better than our "Open Borders" policy after the attacks in France.  

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:27 | 6790437 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I like the message too, but my gut feeling is that either he'll find more excuses not to implement his campaign promises, or the NWO will do everything in its power to inhibit his plans (if he really has any).

Think about it. These "safe places" speech tirades on college campuses are just the vanguard, a testing ground, for what's going to happen next year if Hillary wins the Democrat nomination.

Can you see these groups out there screeching about forbidding the Republican opponent from asking any inappropriate questions during any presidential debates. Questions about the Clinton Foundation, the Benghazi fiasco, and the email server.

Fri, 11/13/2015 - 23:32 | 6790444 Wow72
Wow72's picture

He will at least get us what he can, if he could get the wall... FUCK IT... its better than nothing at this point.... Everyone else will give us nothing.

 

Just what we need Hillary as president to have to tell us the truth about Bill being out back with the "Foundation" and a box of cigars? That will solve all our problems!  there will be no conflicts of interest....never has been! TRUST US!

Sat, 11/14/2015 - 01:56 | 6790795 BarkingCat
BarkingCat's picture

There is no need for a wall. He could put an Army division on the border and secure it completely. 

He does not even need congress for that.

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