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About 38% Of All The COMEX Gold In Hong Kong Left The Warehouses Yesterday
Roughly 21 tonnes, or 685,652 troy ounces of gold in .999 fine kilo bars, was withdrawn, net of a small deposit of 27,328 ounces, from the Brinks warehouse in Hong Kong yesterday.
To put that into some perspective, that is the same amount of all gold in the entire JPM warehouse in the US.
Now compared to the Comex US, in which very little gold bullion actually changes hands or goes anywhere, that is a huge number. But Hong Kong is typically seeing large inflows and outflows of gold. Because that is how the precious metals market has been manifesting in Asia since about 2007: not with endless chains of paper just changing hands in a grand game of liar's poker, but with the physical exchange of bullion.
And most of that bullion leaves the warehouse and does not come right back, as Koos Jansen has explained repeatedly about the operations on the Shanghai Gold Exchange. It is being accumulated on the mainland, and this probably does not include the PBOC official purchases.
The point of this is that the price discovery in New York is becoming increasingly distinct from the actual physical supply and demand flows of bullion which are taking place in Asia. As I have said, gold is 'trading like a modern currency' without respect to its nature as a commodity bound by physical supply. The Fed et al. can print money, but they cannot print bullion. That is the point of it.
And that is a potentially dangerous development, especially with respect to a commodity that is being traded at a leverage in excess of 200:1. And in the face of shrinking inventories of gold available for delivery at current prices in both New York and London.
I have put the most recent report for all the US warehouses registered with Comex below that of Hong Kong.
As the Comex told Kyle Bass, 'price' will take care of any imbalances. Yes, just as smoothly and seamlessly as it did when the price of highly levered and risky paper corrected back to reality in 2008. Ba-boom!
Are you kidding me? That is what Kyle Bass said, not me. "Just give me the gold."
And if people should choose to stand for physical delivery given the relative scarcity, how much of a price adjustment might be required if they could even find any to be had without an onerous delay and in sufficient numbers?
How many people, once again, are going to be allowed to walk blindly into another financial buzz saw caused by reckless gambling on Wall Street? Are we willing to repeat the folly of MF Global on a grand scale? Will the rest of the world be so cowed by the Banks as its investors?
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In your hands....or you don't own it.
Fasten your seatbelts folks, it begins!
Really? People have been saying that for 15 years. 200:1? 300:1? If those work, why not 1,000:1 or 1,000,000:1?
We have a banking system that essentially abolished the reserve ratio a decade ago. It's only appropriate that the gold market is coming into line with that reality.
The gold price will go up again eventually, but not because of some silly ratio.
China is going to build a gold pyramid, that is where the gold went.
No more than the old 3 card monte wearhouse supply game to sucker in new dumb money?!?!
Manipulation of Gold is as old as is relic itself:
http://tragicsouls.blogspot.com/2010/11/gold-factory.html
Click through to the riginal piece... Tyler mssed adding n the chart for Hong Kong.
Why do we keep talking about this useless relic? I dug a bunch of clay out of my yard and disposed of it this year... where are the media reports on that?
""The Fed et al. can print money, but they cannot print bullion. That is the point of it.""
Sorry, but for the moment they can and are printing all the PAPER GOLD they want.
As long as "THE MARKETS" HAPPILY Accept paper GOLD, It Will Continue as is...
The Key Words Here Are "As long as"...
<- My name
<- Not my name
Buh Bitcoin!!
Not much of a conspiracy theory guy, but the day before yesterday there was a HUGE LINE of PAPCO tanker trucks leaving the (fuel) tank farm not far from my house. I mean for HOURS they were streaming out of the place. Fully loaded (you can tell by the tires and how it goes over bumps).
A few every day is not an unusual occurrance, but when there's dozens of them back to back.... never seen that before.
It was odd enough I was going to mention it even before the whole Paris thing, but now it's got me to thinking.
Buh phoney Fonestar magic unicorn farts.
Do you know the difference between a name and avatar?
In the end everything will be ok. if it is not ok it is not the end
(yawn)...how many times have I read this scenario? Wake me up when Soros is all in.
I have it on good authority that somethings wrong ! ! !
Wow. Can't anyone read sarcasm anymore?
Dit chit
Hey Buckaroo,
"The gold price will go up again eventually, but not because of some silly ratio."
You're right. People will discover that fiat is really nothing more than scratchy toilet paper. As far as the 15 years bit goes, people want to believe that other people are basically good. That is just wrong. I forecast the fall in 2013. I was wrong. The moneychangers (i.e. mammonites) will stop at nothing to keep the game going as long as possible to allow the the fascho-corporatist state to harden itself in preparation for the coming conflagration. Witness the rise of the police state and the Justice department's stubborn resistance to reigning in the flagrant excesses of the now uncountable TLAs here in the United States.
Welcome to Elysium,
Spoctor Din
people want to believe that other people are basically good. That is just wrong.
Most individuals have no desire to hurt others but people make the mistake of trusting the sociopaths who run the joint. Just another reason why central planning leads to disaster and the right of individual self ownership must be recognized.
Hey Billy,
What keeps coming to my mind these days is the old Wall St. axe about the market being drive by two emotions, greed and fear. The more I observe humanity, the more I see these two emotions as the foundation of almost all human interactions.
When you see something that you can't quite put your finger on, try winnowing down to the fundamental driving emotions, and you will characteristically see one or the other of these...
Spoctor Din
Yes, basic emotions are strong drivers of action.
I disagree with the pejorative use of the word "greed." Greed is a word most often used by the envious to designate their marks. Apart from that, what is commonly called greed is really just high time preference. Yes, greed is a shorter word which is much easier to say in the midst of conversation but it's become overloaded with extraneous emotion.
Also note that positive emotions can be strong drivers of action. The elite sociopaths always focus on negative emotions in order to drive people like cattle. They want you to fear everything from the people over the next hill to tomorrow's weather. Real leaders (like good parents, pastors and employers) motivate their charges by encouraging positive emotions such as love, security, commitment and contentment.
Greed is fine as long as it is moderated by a modicum of ethics and morality. The golden rule applies here. I don't have a problem with greed, I have a problem with "unbridled greed".
There will always be wolves in man suits, there will always be sheeple and they will always be exploited, and there will always be the 3% that will eventually take a stand...
Spoctor Din
Greed is fine as long as it is moderated by a modicum of ethics and morality.
The two are not at odds in a fully free market which includes as a part of it a free market for behaviors. In such a context, consequences of behavior accrue straight back to those responsible.
Greed wants to minimize adverse consequences and it turns out the best way to do that is respect the golden rule. Morality is actually more profitable. Only distorted markets where consequences can be put off onto others via state mechanisms give rise to a dichotomy between what's profitable and what's moral.
Very well said.
Hear hear,,,
"...fiat is really nothing more than scratchy toilet paper."
Actually, it's even worse than that.
There is really only about $1.8 Trillion of that 'scratchy toilet paper' in existence against an annual federal budget of over $3 Trillion and a National Debt of $18 Trillion and unfunded liabilities of over $70 trillion.
So the US$ is really only 1's and 0's in a computer.
When the next financial crisis hits, you can expect that 'scratchy toilet paper' to be worth quite a bit due to its scarcity; at least until the government reacts to the crisis by creating an infinite number of 1's and 0's in the computer...
I've become a "collector" of toilet paper. I have at least 25 different kinds...
I just keep stackin'
Spoctor Din
Used?
Well actually... ;-)
"... you can expect that 'scratchy toilet paper' to be worth quite a bit due to its scarcity ..."
I'm not sure that there will be a scarcity as US Treasury Bonds are the equivalent of US Dollars.
Also a lot of the US Dollar transactions are done online.
You Lazarushian-leather Spoctor Din!
Though I’ve belted you and flayed you, By the livin’ Gawd that made you, You’re a better man than I am, Spocter Din!I wish that were true. I have some scuffs on my record which I consider badges of honor.
FUCK THE POLICE STATE!!!
Spoctor Din
argentina want's scratchy toilet paper - better than none
Gold is like EVERYTHING ELSE; it comes and goes in waves.
And AFTER it "comes and goes" we find reasons...price always makes the first move, then we try to explain it.
Stop looking for reasons! Start getting in tune with the natural wave direction and you'll do much better at "investing".
A simple, single ocean wave starts from nothing, builds and builds, pushing the water AHEAD of it up..up and up it goes until it's standing nearly vertical...then it comes crashing down...go look at the long term chart of gold and the wave is evident.
You don't have to be smart, connected or even Clairvoyant to have a reasonable understanding of what the future is likely to hold, you just have to understand a simple wave life cycle.
Gold is maybe like Silver and Copper, but is not like as everything else because cannot imagine into existence. Is pure elemental and amount in existence is fix.
Depends who you R. Works for JPMorgan, atleast on paper
Ocean waves do not start from "nothing". Ocean waves are wind driven. Wind dies or changes direction, so do the waves. Swell, as opposed to chop may continue for some time after the wind that created it has abated, but will eventually subside. When the wind picks up again - and it will, perhaps from another direction with a different and varying velocity - so will the waves it creates.
Not sure what this means for your analogy.
But when the ratio is 200:0 or anything:0, then the jig is up! Didn't junk you.
Ultimately the ratios have to do with the amount of actual gold present vs. paper. The game will go on until enough people ask for physical, and the probability of this happening increases as the ratio gets bigger. At this point, it would take buyers equal to 0.3% of the outstanding contracts to make it happen.
We should get a pool going on what the ratio will be before the bottom falls out. Lowest ratio that isn't passed wins. I'm betting on 1000:1 .
I agree with Buckaroo, 200:1 is NOTHING....Berkshire Hataway (BRKA) trades @ 197,825:1 or actually more like 197,825:0 ...I remember as a kid my mom getting a letter about a pyramid scheme and learning about how eventually, those who are in last finance everyone else and get nothing. Unless you were at the entry point of any of the current pyramid / ponzi schemes, enjoy grocery shopping while you can.....oh, and if you have not tried Wallaby Organic Vanilla Bean Whole Milk Greek Yoghurt, go try some....it's legalized crack.
It doesn´t matter until it matters..
Correct, it will happen due to "failure to deliver" physical gold. But that ratio is one indication of how soon the "failure to deliver" may be.
It isn't precise, but it is quite relevant.
GoldBugs...question...once you've "Stacked" all you can "Stack"...and everyone else is EVEN MORE broke than they are today...what is your gold worth if no one can pay?..and the only people with any wealth are fellow "Stackers"?
..and the hysterical government officials decide that "Stackers" are a "problem" and the full weight of the DESPERATE Government comes down upon you...ya, ya, ammo, bunker, foodstuffs, I know.
If you REALLY believe the end is near folks..SPEND YOUR FIAT and have the FUCKING TIME OF YOUR LIFE...because life is going to REALLY SUCK if/when you are right.
Better to be poor with a ton of sweet memories from the "good old days", than "rich" with gold living in a hole in the ground waiting to fight off angry mobs or a military assault.
Your either or scenario is ridiculous!
"what is your gold worth if no one can pay"
Then it is worth everything. You can buy their labor, and import food from abroad to ensure they are in good shape while working for you. It allows you to begin rebuilding the country.
The end of a financial system is NOT the end of the world. "Mad Max" is highly unlikely. At most a civil war.
"Better to be poor with a ton of sweet memories from the "good old days", than "rich" with gold living in a hole in the ground waiting to fight off angry mobs or a military assault."
A man hasn't lived until he's stood up for what he believes in.
In a scenario like that described in Cormac McCarthy's excellent novel The Road, yes, gold will hold zero value. But many of us believe that a reset of the monetary system won't be the end of the world. After all, it's not as if this hasn't happened many times in the past.
As such, my gold will be used to carry my wealth over to the new system.
The fact is, stackers are producers. Once the SHTF, the stacker-producers will still be producers.
And so, stacker-producers will exchange goods via the most convenient and recognized intermediary real, physical, valuable, recognized good... namely physical gold (and silver).
Former slackers will want to survive too, and the only way they'll be able to get the goods they need to survive will be... to work for stacker-producers in exchange for gold/silver. So stacker-producers will also have access to cheap labor.
Gee, great article, book or movie title. Slackers vs Stackers.
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/dynamics-of-national-colla...
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/a-measure-of-propagandas-p...
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/were-still-going-to-be-here/
Ends of eras are interesting times.
In your hands... then carefully and securely hidden where nobody can possibly find or grab it.
Why? Because the predators-that-be will be happy to pry your gold out of your cold dead hands... after shooting you dead.
300:1, now.
It was 288:1 before this report.
What the Comex will do, in response to any additional demand, is PRINT CONTRACTS.
With the dwindling supply of Physical Gold in their inventories, combined with the printing of more naked Futures Contracts, it will not surprise me to see Gold Futures Contracts selling much nearer to $100,000 next week.
Of course the contract is for the future delivery of 100 ozt of Gold, or, FIAT if the Gold is not available.
Of course Spot Gold is the price of that Future Contract divided by 100 and that is the number reported.
It will also not surprise me to see a ratio that is much closer to 500:1 on the next report.
The price of a Gold Contract diminishes and approaches ZERO. When the Gold Futures Contract no longer performs then it will have NO VALUE WHATSOEVER and will be worth ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
So ZERO divided by 100 is ZERO. Thus the Spot Gold Price, reported by the COMEX will be ZERO at some point in the near future.
The game is up. There is an insatiable demand for Physical Gold which the Comex cannot satisfy. So to alleviate the payouts in Fiat they PRINT EVER MORE CONTRACTS which decreases the price and exacerbates the problem which they are facing, praying in vain that the owners of the contracts choose toroll them over instead of accepting a lower price in Fiat.
Thus Comex is in a trap and this is the predicted result, by FOFOA, of the End Game being played out...
And then we need to hang Jeffery Christian for his complicity in perpetrating one of the largest frauds that will totally bankrupt the World.
He has already personally caused widespread death and suffering from starvation of the Gold Miners in the Third World Nations producing Gold. He is a callous and psychopathic mass murderer with wanton disregard for human life. The Death Penalty is appropriate in this case.
The stage (trap door) is being set clearly
There is ONLY one thing that anyone needs to know about gold:
Gold is ALWAYS priced in fiat currencies.
Actually you have it backwards. Fiat currencies are ALWAYS priced in gold. That's because fiat is the "note" representing the actual gold. Just like with inflation- it's not the cost of things that are rising, but rather the value of fiat that requires more of it to buy the same goods. Gold is always constant. It's the note that fluctuates.
they can steal you fiat with a key stroke, it takes a sword stroke to steal your gold
Bad news for you: the last time that the regime stole everyone's gold, the regime did NOT use any weapons, just laws, it worked and they can + will do it again.
Never work again. The people who hold gold today understand the nature of banksters and predators-DBA-government much better now than they did in 1933.
Fiat is a derivative of gold.
Pretty easy once you think about it.
"Stand and Deliver"
STAND AND DELIVER!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2a6l6wM2k
Stand and deliver!....This redistribution of wealth is trickier than I thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLkhx0eqK5w
Its OK... Till its not.
"How did you go bankrupt?"
"Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly."
We are getting closer to the end of things as we know it.... Everyone can feel it and know it outside of Cramer and the CNBC clowns..
They know too, but they are liars with zero scruples, and paid to lie.
Presstitutes and mediatitutes hang out in the same bar.
None of that gold backs COMEX contracts anyway. COMEX has no claim on it and cannot touch any of it. Contract sellers have no claim on it and cannot use any of it, unless they specifically make arrangements to obtain some of it from its owners because they need it to fulfill COMEX good delivery requirements.
Since it is not security, the amount of it that is in the warehouse is irrelevant to COMEX contract backing. There could be 1,000x as much of that gold or 0 of that gold and COMEX contracts would still be backed only they same thing they are backed by right now: merely the seller's promise to deliver.
So where did all this gold go?
So it seems that about a billion out of 2.7 went to Texas from the US Comex. If I do the math that is a 37% reduction of all the gold. Sound familiar? Say what you want the Texas folks are not so dumb (I am one of them for full disclosure) after all.
Well, let's look at the historical record of COMEX stocks. That $1B withdrawal from COMEX should have really left a dent after UT pulled it out, right?
http://research.perthmint.com.au/2015/07/06/historic-comex-stocks-open-i...
$1B in gold in 2010 at around $1,100 an ounce is about 900,000 ounces. Look at the COMEX stocks in 2010. See a 900K oz drop that persists? I can't. I see COMEX stocks rising in 2010.
If you're scratching your head wondering why, it's because COMEX stocks merely represent a buffer between those taking delivery and larger stocks held outside COMEX. Buffer size is managed independently of volume of flow through the buffer. If the buffer falls because of a sudden large depletion, it's quickly replenished from outside stocks. Obviously, it's not the size of the buffer, but the size of the replenishment reserves that really matter, and we have no visibility into what those are.
I could be wrong, but I believe they still have it stored on deposit at HSBC. So until they actually take physical possesion and begin storing it in their own bullion depository it should still remain on COMEX inventory records. (I assume you meant TX whenyou wrote UT)
Indeed. UTIMCO had/has it vaulted at HSBC in NYC. They're trying to get it placed in Texas, but its quite a process.
That's an excellent catch. I dug around and it looks like the HSBC vault in NY they are storing it in may very well be an official COMEX vault. Which means the gold may still have eligible status. However, given UTIMCO's commitment to repatriate the gold, I doubt they would leave it in registered status. Registered stocks also rose in 2010. I can't find information clearing this up.
B-52's...
Hop in my Chrysler, it's as big as a whale and it's about to set sail!
That is not even the right table there. Show the gold kilo bar table.
Dow:Gold ratio 1:1... it's only a matter of time. That said, the Chinese didn't get filthy rich hoarding gold. They got filthy rich printing fiat, and pimping cheap shit to the rest of the world leveraged against slave labor. The Chinese have as little to gain from the collapse of fiat as the US, they just realize it's only a matter of time before it happens.
Finally, there's no real evidence the Chinese are as fucking "wise" as the stereotypical investment letter writer keeps making them out to be. The vast wasteland of empty residential cities sprawling across the Chinese hinterlands points to the copious malinvestments, fraud and corruption rife throughout the Chinese system.
The Chinese bought more gold at 1900 than anyone. Very smart. They're also plowing money into US real estate at the height of the reflation. Verrrrrry smart.
Dow:Gold 1:1... it's coming. But it won't be tomorrow.
If the Dow:Gold gets to 1:1, it will almost totally happen because the Dow dropped to somewhere near 1000.
Though it is possible it happens when gold and Dow both reach $20,000 or so.
That amount of gold is just three days of world production.
And it's not like oil or other commodities, the vast majority of gold never gets used, it's just added to the stockpiles.
Amen. Mines last quarter produced 9.4 tonnes per day. ZH is ringing alarm bells because 21 tonnes, just over 2 days of new gold production, representing 0.62% of annual production got relocated from the COMEX warehouse to an outside warehouse.
Moreover, 134,000 tonnes exists out there in private hands representing potential supply at some price. 21 tonnes represents 0.016% of that potential supply.
Plus, China alone consumes more than worldwide production of gold. The game will end, the only question is when.
Recently the predators-that-be have gotten increasingly desperate. They've invaded sovereign nations to steal their physical gold (to keep dumping on the market). They've refused to give the gold owned by Germany back to Germany.
They are willing to do absolutely ANYTHING to keep the price down, because their greatest asset by far is the worldwide acceptance of their fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve debt-notes and debt-bits in exchange for real, physical goods.
When the world refuses their worthless fiat, they're burned toast, and out of business. Which explains why they're willing to go to such extremes to keep the fraud running.
If you're a U.S. citizen and expecting this fraudery to right itself anytime soon - abandon all hope, now. This is a wholly captured subsidiary of the Exchange Stabilization Fund, the department of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve system. A righting of the system won't come from within. The fate of this market lies squarely in the hands of wild & out-of-control U.S. foreign policy, and the 'secretive' but measured increments of the Chinese government.
Correct... except.
-----
This specific fraud... the suppression of gold and silver prices... will end when the predators-that-be run out of gold, and there is a serious "failure to deliver".
As you note, they are egregious predators with zero honor or scruples. And they've been invading fictional sovereign nations for years [in part] to steal their physical gold to keep their racket going.
They also refused to deliver the gold to Germany they supposedly hold for Germany. If humans had any brains, that should have counted as "the biggest failure to deliver in the history of mankind". But the predators-that-be managed to PR this disaster into nothingness with help from their captured mainstream media co-conspirators.
The ONLY way to break this fraud is failure to deliver physical, largely for the very reasons you stated.
"How many people, once again, are going to be allowed to walk blindly into another financial buzz saw caused by reckless gambling on Wall Street?"
Every damn one of them as long as a buck can be made - legally or illegally - it doesn't matter.
No one/Tribesman ever went broke, underestimating the stupidity of the common man/Goyim.
I know that 50 gold bugs stand ready shout me down immediately, but I'll say it anyway. The behind-the-scenes anecdotes coming out of the gold market are disturbingly similar to the anecdotes coming out of the housing market in 2005. Supply is constrained; people are bidding up prices beyond what is reasonable; price discovery is deranged, the market is opaque, etc. All of same these things happened just before the housing market collapsed and prices cratered.
You gold bugs have pinned your hopes on a commodity with no intrinsic value. No currency has intrinsic value. It's the valueless thing you carry around to exchange for things of intrinsic value. That's what currency is. The facts are these:
- Gold is in a bear market, and has been for 4 years.
- The gold market is opaque. Everyone with gold is holding something they think is valuable, whether gold paper, gold coins, or bullion. Each of these has demonstrated serious problems. Paper has nothing backing it but the promise of bankers. Coins are essentially un-spendable, requiring special dealers to exchange them into spendable currency. Fraudulent tungsten bars with gold plating keep popping up here and there
- Gold is a commodity, with limited industrial use. We are in the midst of a global deflationary crash with commodity prices collapsing. Gold is a commodity and only an act of God can keep it from crashing too.
- Gold-based currencies are not immune from banker manipulation. They are subject to all the same failings as any fiat currency. This is a matter of historical record. There is no gold-backed currency coming.
- Mark Dice cannot give away gold or silver on the street corner. People would rather have a candy bar (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mark+dice+gives+away+silver). You can laugh at the idiots refusing gold, or you can realize that you will encounter the same problem when you go to spend your gold.
Whatever you're hoping gold will do, it isn't going to do it. It's not going to spike higher. It's not going to become a new currency. You won't be able to spend it in a zombie apocalypse. There is no hyper-inflation coming. There are many better alternatives to gold, no matter what scenario you're expecting.
Okay, flame suit on. Fire when ready.
It's the valueless thing you carry around to exchange for things of intrinsic value.
I have some valueless lint in my pocket. How many chickens will you give me for it?
Gold is in a bear market, but it will have it's day again here at some point. What's silly is "stacking" all the way down from the top.Once that top was evident, YEARS AGO, simple stock chart reversal analysis suggested $900 gold was a good bet.
It was a HUGE BLOWOFF TOP that only "Stackers" could not see...and since that top, they've taken a beating...the FED, Gov, Wall Street have stolen their wealth even though it was stored in GOLD!
If you bought gold at ~$1800....the the FED, Gov, Wall Street have stolen 40% of your "investment"! So much for gold being a great way to store wealth...it is at times, but you have to understand when it's the right time...you can't blindly declare today is the day...day after day after day...
Sounds like you have an uncanny ability to identify tops of markets and bottoms of markets while amidst them. In other words you were certain over the past 4 years that gold was not going to permanently take off skyward at any time even amidst rampant money printing. Congratulations, I'm sure your perfect predictive ability has made you rich.
Pray tell is gold at a bottom right now?
Those who lack the omniscience to be able to tell, choose to stack gold as a form of "dollar cost averaging."
Dollar cost averaging is an excellent strategy when you know you want to be invested in something because you know it is undervalued in general, but you can't predict short term price action and are happy to get in for the long haul at an average price rather than engage in short term price speculation.
Another great post. I hope to hear much more from you.
Thanks, Billy, I like your comments too.
Gold is still expensive. It will be dumped by the thousands of tonnes when interest rates rise over the next few years (decade) Or the alternatively, if the "system" collapses, it will also take gold with it, just like in 2008.
People always refer to "dollar cost averaging" when they are losing money and they try to justify their poor choices.
The predators-that-be can no longer materially raise interest rates. The USSA and many other western governments are bankrupt due to insane debt levels (over 1000% of GDP in the USSA if you count unfunded liabilities as debt). Therefore, ye old threat of high interest rates on fiat has become a bogus argument.
If rates did rise substantially (just to historically moderate rates), the entire tax revenue of the USSA would be required just to pay interest on the debt, leaving zero for anything else. Yeah, that's gonna happen... NOT.
By the way, I am ready to make you rich. Seriously, not kidding.
I will buy 1000 tons of gold from you at $1000 per troy ounce. Since gold is worth much less than $1080, you'll be getting far more than it is worth for every ounce.
You ready? I'll send some big trucks with extra heavy duty suspensions.
Just wait until you see how FAST the dollar price of gold rockets higher once the manipulators run out of gold and the first major "failure to deliver" happens.
Boy will you be sorry for waiting.
Sure, hindsight is 20:20, and we'd all love to have a time machine so we could go back in time so we could buy and sell everything at exactly the best time. But that's just fantasy, so "average down" is a perfectly reasonable policy... especially if you're averaging down as you accumulate more income.
The $1800 price of gold was NOT a "blowoff top". It was when the central banksters decided they had to trash the price of gold and silver in order for large numbers of people to not notice their fiat scams were nearing an end.
Cook in your flame suit. You're better off there.
Yep - you got it all down Dr. Snooz.
There's only (1) issue with your 'facts':
Nothing has yet happened to test any of them.
when they and they includes the Fed finally implement a transaction only currency, the preferred store of value for noninvestment purposes will be PM. addditionally PM provides a standard against which the expansion of credit (in the current context money) can be measured. the globe goes cashless gold will be the investment where you park your cash, because the supply is fixed relatively. also CBs are not the authoritarians we imagine they must conjure up confidence in their money, and with confidence fading they need a lifeboat and the new gold backed SDRs issued by IMF will serve that purpose. to that end the degree of issuance depends on the gold reservers of the sovereign nation. hence CBs are buying gold, when the event happens the market will be dereft of supply and the price will naturally rise, and they will see their assets increase. these people are not stupid, they would own dog turds if they thought that people would prefer them as currency. third (worldly) we are all going to be a lot poorer, and the poor covet gold more than the rest of us. in my minds eye america will look like india in twenty years.. gold is a personal choice, and with the existing supply taken up by CBs the miners will have supply gold for personal consumption. you are probably right but you need to consider your conclusions in the broader context
I gave you a thumbs up, and I always make a point to read contrarian opinions. Problems with counterfeiting, government attempts to confiscate, people's lack of experience using gold in the recent decades, and physical theft are all valid points.
The problem I have with those who argue gold is worthless is that there really isn't an alternative medium of exchange out there to match gold's unique combination/requirements for the perefct medium of exchange: portability, rarity, divisbility, physical stability ( for long term storage), universality, recognizability, etc.
You seem to imply that there is a better store of value/medium of exchange. Yes, energy might be one, land also. But even silicon wafers degrade with time, so does oil, even when stored with stabilizers. Land is a tax target with no portability, and more difficult to defend than gold is to carry and hide.
I agree that in the early stages of upheavel, gold may not be useful compared to food, water, guns, etc. But after the carnage settles, gold will re emerge. Thus gold should be viewed as a long term transition store of wealth.
Bravo Hubbs, brilliantly articulated.
Nobody said gold is worthless, simply it's not the miracle store of wealth that some are making it out to be.
It will only reassert decades after an upheaval, providing there's economic prosperity. Gold is still a luxury commodity, and right now there's lots of disposable income in the world and "cheap money" courtesy of QE around the world. That's the only reason gold is high right now.
Those conditions of excess disposable income to spend on luxuries will take a VERY long time to emerge after an upheval. As such, the value of gold will remain very low for a long time.
You say "gold is high now". Really?
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The gold price is now below average cost of production. How on earth can you say "the price is high"? What nonsense.
No only a few newer high priced mines with low grade ore are priced higher than cost of production.
A couple of the largest gold mines in the world have costs of production in the $400/oz range.
Also it's irrelevant if the price is lower than cost of production. There are many mines of various elementa and minerals that are below the cost of production. Not just gold, but everything from iron ore to potash.
You seem to imply that there is a better store of value/medium of exchange. Yes, energy might be one, land also.
Apart from storage problems and shelf life it's a bad idea to try to use necessary commodities as a form of currency. Money has a dynamic all its own, sometimes interest rates are high and money doesn't flow easily while sometimes rates are low and liquidity abounds. There are reasons for this which are specific to the economic conditions in play at the time. If oil or food were to be used as money the abundance or scarcity of those commodities due to their value as currency (i. e. interest rates) would effect the average person's ability to obtain those goods which are necessary for life. Conversely, irregularities in the market for a commodity like oil (during a cold winter, for example) would not only effect the cost of heating but would carry over into the monetary realm as well perhaps sparking recession. Gold makes the perfect commodity money specifically because "it isn't good for anything." This means that the possible distortions noted above wouldn't effect gold and it can play a strictly monetary role.
...it's a bad idea to try to use necessary commodities as a form of currency...Gold makes the perfect commodity money specifically because "it isn't good for anything."
Exactly right. Attempting to use a commodity as money forces together two different things that function efficiently only when left free to find their own independent supply/demand equilibrium prices for their distinct services. I see you know exactly what you are talking about.
Those who don't understand money think its value must be objective. A understandable knee jerk reaction to fiat perhaps, but quite incorrect. When gold lovers talk about gold's "intrinsic value," I roll my eyes. They should know better.
Money provides absolutely nothing by itself. Something becomes money only by grace of mutual agreement among traders. By solving the double-coincidence of wants problem it allows specialization of labor. That multiplies everyone's productivity multi-fold.
Agree with you completely.
The greatest fallacy is that gold is "the only real store of value". And you correctly state that gold is no different than any other fiat, because it has almost no practical use.
The best store of value is always something that produces a return and is something that people NEED, and not a luxury that people might want.
Gold is a luxury that's purchased in good times, with surplus disposable income, at which time it's a sellers market. When gold is actually NEEDED for whatever reason, SHTF, etc, then it's a buyers market and gold's value will be pennies on the dollar.
The bugs also claim that gold is "stable". Also false. How can something stable, change it's value by a factor of 7 in 15 years? And in the past 35 years, it has twice lost most of it's value. The first time it lost 70% of it's value and so far it's lost 45% of it's value. And those were simply fluctuations, and not dire emergencies.
Why did gold lose so much value in November 2008 with the market crash? Shouldn't it have gone up if it was so valuable?
Gold didn't change value by a factor of 7 in 15 years... the dollar did. However, the recent hyper-extreme leveraged paper manipulation has indeed reduced how much you can get when you exchange gold for other goods and goodies. And that will continue until the fraud is stopped by failure to deliver. When that happens, gold will overshoot in the opposite direction, then gradually return to its long term exchange rate with other goods and goodies.
Anyone who imagines a green piece of paper with $100 printed in the corners (or bits in a bank computer) has more intrinsic value than gold... is completely insane. You'll learn that in spades when the banksters steal "your" computer bits the next time they have financial issues.
The key reason gold is the best form of money is... it cannot be created out of thin nothing by corrupt predators-DBA-government or predators-DBA-banks.
That alternatives to gold exist for industrial purposes is a huge positive for gold as money. If gold was consumed in large quantities for industrial purposes, you lovers of fiat would scream from the rooftops that "gold is terrible money because the available supply changes dramatically with industrial demand". Instead, the total quantity of gold is extremely stable and grows slowly but continuously (as does population).
So many false beliefs, don't know where to start.
First, the US dollar has soared in value the past decade, not depreciated. That clearly shows you have a very deranged viewpoint to start with.
As for gold "keeping it's value". Has your salary dropped 40% in the past 3 years? Have prices of goods and services dropped 40% in the past 3 years? Gold has.
And like all gold bugs, you constantly equate gold with "money". Gold is a commodity, and currency is a medium of exchange. Very little gold is used industrially (12% of annual production) and much of that is eventually recovered.
It's irrelevant that money depreciates, because that's not what it's for. It's a TEMPORARY medium of conveying/exchanging value. And the false argument of it losing all value by stuffing cash and gold it in your mattress, that gold will retain value. Again, cash is a medium of exchange, and gold is a commodity.
Gold is a RELIGION to it's true believers. And like all religious beliefs, the true believes defy logic to justify those beliefs. They would rather die than admit they are wrong.
You're a paid liar for predators-that-be. That's the only plausible explanation for how false and silly are your claims.
If the dollar has soared in value the last decade, then dollar prices of normal everyday goods and goodies would have fallen dramatically the past decade. THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE, AND EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. Even you know, as proven by your next paragraph!
I've never had a salary, I've been self-employed since before I finished school.
You deny "gold is money" and say "gold is a commodity". Yet elsewhere you claim "gold is not a commodity because it has no applications". Very consistent... NOT.
The only reason the exchange rate between gold and other goods and goodies has become less the past 4 years is... because the predators-that-be are manipulating the price with hyper-leveraged paper-gold tricks AND they are dumping their supply of physical gold that took them centuries to accumulate (or steal from people in 1933).
In gold we trust.
BTW, I am atheist. So I have no religion, not based on a deity or on gold.
You are a paid liar, so what you say irrelevant. Just wait, you'll see. And fairly soon too... definitely by the end of 2016, and likely much, much sooner.
You can always spot the true believers. They twist words and meanings, and then throw out insults.
Being a true believer extends far beyond religion. You fit the definition because of your irrational BELIEFS towards gold.
Its all about the truth which liars know nothing about. I only insult those who like to spread lies... Looser.
PROVIDE SOME PROOF w/ Links... OTHER THAN INSULTS YOU USELESS P.O.S. YOU CANT CAUSE YOUR FULL OF SHIT!
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
- Socrates
Only an idiot doesnt realize when hes the one using it? Where is any proof to back up your insulting argument gold is not really money? You really think your worthy of quoting Socrates? Holy shit.
Instead of beating around the bush why dont you tell us what it is you really want to say?
Just for the record I proved with the link above the dollar really has lost value to gold and that even the an ex FED member thinks gold forms the "base" of money? What do you have Einstein? I have the truth.
We used to use silver to make money till it became worth too much a silver quarter is worth around 2.80 right now.. We used to use silver as real money because thats what it is... It is what it is and its money.
Put some proof up or shut the fuck up?
What is money Einstein an IOU? Tell us cause I want to know.
Gold during the depression was priced at 35 which was more than before the depression and miners soared. People wanted real money after fully experiencing the "system" some refer to as the Casino. We could have a similar situation ahead.
Work will always be the ultimate form of money because that is always what is desired. WORK and you cant get work without paying with work, unless someone isnt very smart.
Actually, the silver quarter is worth roughly the same (in terms of goods).
For example, a silver quarter would buy a gallon of gasoline in 1971, and still today ($2.80 per gallon in fiat which is about what a silver quarter is worth now).
Nonetheless, you say it the way most people think.
Hes a FUCKING DOUCHE! Ive observed enough of his comments to believe that he is on the "other" team Hey Douche bag you getting scared that gold is gettting close to running out?
YOUR QUOTE: "And like all gold bugs, you constantly equate gold with "money"
A commodity is money Gold = work = money it is one of the most liquid things on the planet. Corn = Work = Money. Dollar = promise that its work, but its not anymore! Its a P.O.S.
WORK IS THE ONLY THING THAT TRANSLATES DIRECTLY TO MONEY. PERIOD. Gold is actually the physical representation of work. There is no closer representation of work on this planet, nothing comes closer to being real money than gold or silver. People are fucking lost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Exter Tell John Exter what money is you fucking idiot.
This link actually shows the value of the dollar to gold. DISMAL for the dollar
http://pricedingold.com/us-dollar/
Its funny the closer we get to war the faster the gold is going. Things are looking like they are about to get "real" and when things get real, gold is real money.
If you think how gold has acted in the past 50 years has been "normal" and think modelling it after manipulated markets gives an accurate description of what it really is or how it acts your fucking lost. "They" have had control of it for a long time. Its seems they maybe losing control.
Do you know how many times advocates of fiat paper currency over gold money have made arguments like yours... before the exchange rate between the fiat currency and gold zoomed to infinity?
Answer: EVERY TIME for EVERY FIAT CURRENCY.
Incidentally, gold is not always a common currency (always due to government manipulation), but only gold is money.
As for your Mark Dice comments, they are accurate. But your implication is 100% backwards! What you prove is how few (extremely few) people in the west know gold is money and gold is vastly superior currency. When everyone starts to realize, that will increase the demand for gold by a factor of... I dunno... probably something like 100x. You will wish you had some pet gold rocks when that happens, sucker!
By the way, we have no need to flame you or punish you, because you are about to punish yourself more than you can possibly imagine (obviously).
Hmm, but you can eat it! Unfortunately, there ain't enough to feed everyone! (Covered all the other bases for ya!)
ANd by gold you mean tungsten bars wrapped in gold foil.
It is best to buy your gold as foil.
Tinfoil hats are for dilettantes. The serious use gold foil.
Some guys I know used to put foil on their knuckles before every game.
Don't think it was gold, though, otherwise I would have accepted some instead of passing.
Foil me once...
Won't get foiled again. It's scratchy!
For those who think gold is just a commodity with no intrinsic value....
someday China will announce enough of it to wrestle the pricing away from the LBMA and Comex and use their horde to extinguish their massive debt .Only then,will we we see which emperor has the "clothes."
4000 years as money tells us so
So, how exactly is China going to corner the market with gold?
The ONLY way to corner the market, is to CONTINUALLY buy ALL of it at whatever price you want gold to be. So if you want gold to be $5,000/oz, then you have to buy every single oz that comes to market at, or below that price. And soon as you stop BUYING, the price will plummet.
Read up about Nelson Bunker Hunt, and his brother William Herbert Hunt. You might learn something, but it's highly unlikely.
Well, if my rough calculations are correct, a short ton of gold (29166.67 oz t) at 1200 an oz is worth about 35,000,000 each. China's debt pile is estimated to be 30,000,000,000,000 or 867,000 tons of gold.
They got a long way to go, if that is indeed their nefarious plan.
And it's an easy decision as a consumer. Get the phiz and carefully assay your denarius. There is a good chance you really are only getting $1100 an oz. worth.
You mean 'left their spreadsheet'?
To put that into some perspective, that is the same amount of all gold in the entire JPM warehouse in the US
Wait isn't the JPM warehouse owned by the Chinese?
Jesse have you considered putting allegedly on all fraudster claims about inventory going forward. The ponzi is nearing its end.
KJ is great when he calls out the BS on things like "official gold audits" where auditors are allowed to inventory the gold bars through a window. The charades of the criminals is almost comical except that they should be behind a window being counted by an auditor known as a prison guard.
The real reason for this particular gold removal will be quite visible soon.
my garage is getting full now
Imploding up the COMEX contracts would be sweet.
Calling the COMEX scam on their almost 300:1 paper to actual gold commitment would be sweet.
I do believe that that is the ultimate goal, and in doing so, clears the way for their own gold exchange to operate largely unhindered. COMEX is like an out-of-shape prizefighter still thinking he can win when the opponent is in a lot better shape, leaner...and meaner. And hungry.
Kyle Bass. The guy that went out and bought $1mm worth of nickels for the value of the metal itself and not the value of the coins.
That Kyle Bass.
The same Kyle Bass that then found out it is illegal to melt US corrency for the metal. The same Kyle Bass that then found it he couldn't ship the nickels outside the US borders to have the nickels melted otherwise.
This guy shouldn't be trusted with a butter knife...
it is illegal to melt US corrency for the metal...
But you can flatten them out for souvenir tokens at Disneyland for an additional 3ea. 25 cent US “corrency” tokens. You can also purchase 1, 5 and 10 unit denomination “Disney Dollars” in exchange for the same denomination US frns and turn around and “sell” them on ebay for 50 to 600% more, (or use them at "face" value to puchase 9. frn corn dogs in the park).
Yes, that Disney, the same that brings you the News on what used to be ABC.
Jmobservation.
Ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times." (like flood, famine, war, etc., a wonderfully subtle way of saying "F-k you!")
It's going to get real 'interesting' Monday morning. Let's see the manipulators play this one.
The fresh paint covering the termite-ridden Potemkin Village facade of GLD won't keep the inevitable from happening. The Chinese have just given that facade a mighty kick in the sides, and it's bound to be shuddering from the impact. They were the major players all along, with Russia in hot pursuit close behind, and now they've just announced, in typical Confucian fashion, no loud fanfare or boasting, that they're top dog in the gold markets, now.
China is calling the manipulator's GLD bluff with this move. It's 'raise or call', and the manipulators know they're busted. This move shows the GLD Emperor is not only buck-nekkid, but covered in running STD sores.
Price will solve everything... just not a lower price.
Another thing to consider: Why now?
Why not, should be the question. Mebbe they're sick of the losses they've been taking on their inventory thanks to the manipulation. Maybe they know the GLD is now so overextended that it's only going to take a nudge and the whole thing collapses.
With Russia and China working together economically as well as geoplitically, this move is a major warning that the next withdrawal will be the one that breaks the Western banking system. No matter what Yellin and cronies say to the public, they know that gold is the de facto international currency. As do the Chinese and Russians. A 'run' on the COMEX 'bank' might very well start the 'run' of ordinary banks. A Paul Erdman novel becoming reality follows next. And in some of those books, war figures prominently.
I don't understand the article writers math here? He said "685,652" troy ounces left the warehouse, when it was actually only 425.5 troy ounces and of that 128 ounces was from Hong Kong and the balance (296.9) was from Delaware. (note the use of the decimal point and commas discrepancy). It was also eligible (pre-sold and stored for an owner) not registered (available) for sale so this has little bearing on actual gold prices and the volume is tiny - not even 0.0065% of the total eligible gold being stored in warehouses for owners with claims on that metal.
No worries - the exchanges will declare force majeure and force cash settlement on all contracts - there is no way they will let the price get out of hand because of physical delivery problems.
Also, should people push back against that, the exchange will simply change all contracts going forward to cash settlement only for everyone.
Problem solved, banks win again.
Settlement in cash in lieu of physical is a standard condition of all gold contracts. They don't have to change anything.
Not exactly what you want when you "think" your buying gold? Good luck with that! "Paper gold" kind of like fake money.
And if you wanted to know why Paris just got shot to hell and why Russian passenger jets are getting "blown up" this read and the discussion therein of huge Au swaps and oil tankers from Iraq to Galveston getting "backed up" are the contributing factor!...
Gonna get much more "ISIL" when China and select EU members demand repayment from the little princess at the Fed that has a big announcement come December to raise "rates"...
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And it's only going to take 7 years to get the gold to them!
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V-V
Looking for a broker that would take physical delivery for gold/silver contracts...