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"Devastated" Trader Crushed By Soaring Biotech, Starts Online Begging Campaign To Fund $106,000 Margin Call
And now, what may be the craziest story of the day.
Less than a week ago, one of the countless fly-by-night biotech pennystocks, drug developer KaloBios Pharmaceuticals said it would wind down its operations and that it had engaged restructuring firm Brenner Group to help liquidate its assets. The company said it was "highly unlikely that exploring strategic options could generate a viable transaction within the time frame, given its limited cash resources."
At that moment the stock was trading between $1-2/share, representing a market cap between $5 and $10 million, or in other words, liquidation value.
And then, last night, America's "most hated person", Martin Shkreli, whose price-gouging antics were the catalyst that unleashed the biotech rout over a month ago, decided to get involved.
As KBIO announced after the close, the company "has been informed that an investor group comprised of Martin Shkreli and associates together have acquired more than 50% of the outstanding shares of KaloBios, and that the company is in discussions with Mr. Shkreli regarding possible direction for the company to continue in operation. Mr. Shkreli is the founder and chief executive officer of Turing Pharmaceuticals, a privately held biopharmaceutical company.
"We have received communications from Mr. Shkreli informing us of his group's ownership position, and a proposal to continue the company's operations," said Ronald Martell, Executive Chairman of KaloBios. "Our board of directors is prepared to entertain any constructive proposal, which we will act upon promptly. Addressing short-term cash needs is our first priority, and we continue to be open to further dialogue," he concluded.
As a result, the stock exploded higher, and has since hit a whopping $16/share in the pre-market, an increase of over 650%.
Blatant manipulation? Perhaps - after all, this is not much different from what Oprah Winfrey did with Weight Watchers stock which jumped simply because the media diva had bought sizable stake in WTW stocks. Ultimately, it will be up to the SEC to decide.
However where this story gets abusrdly entertaining, or woefully tragic, depending on one's perspective, is that one trader, Joe Campbell, was on the wrong side of last night's massive surge. As the RutRho blog, which noticed it first explains, a "dummy" E-trader, Joe Campbell, decided to go $35,000 short KBIO "and now owes $ETFC a wonderful $106K."
But it was Campbell's decision what to do next, that is perhaps a first in the history of the market place.
The "faily new trader" decided to give online begging a try, and has launched a GoFundMe campaign seeking to "crowdfund" the $106,445 margin call.
From his just Gaunched GoFundMe website:
Hello to all you traders out there. I'm starting this page out of the recommendation of other traders in the community.
I hesitated on doing this but I literally owe Etrade $106,445.56 as of this moment what would you do if you were in my situation? I'll do whats needed and sell what I have to get them paid but if someone feels my pain and is willing to help out---who am I to say no?
If you don't want to donate I understand, at least read my story of what happened today and protect yourself from the same happening to you! This is a terrible lesson for me but if this helps just one person than I'm happy I wrote this.
I'm a fairly new trader, been trading since about March of this year. I have learned alot about the community and trading...well not enough about trading as you will soon hear.
I have a fairly small account, but its over PDT. As of this morning it was $37,000. I keep it small because I wanted to manage risk, the most I can afford to lose is what I have in the account....$37,000. When I get some profits I take them out of the account because I wouldn't want to lose more than $37k.
I was holding KBIO short overnight for what I thought was a nice $2.00 fade coming. At the close of the bell I saw the quote montage clear out and figured today there was no action after hours in the stock. So I went to my office for a long meeting. I got out of the meeting and saw a message from one of my buddys, he asked if I was ok since I was short KBIO....my heart dropped. "Shoot did I blow up my account, everything I worked for? I don't want to lose all $37,000 that would be terrible." ---It was much worse.
The stock was at $16 and my account was negative over 100k. I figured it was a mistake, Etrade would never let that happen, they must have cut the position when my account got to $0....nope. I immediately called them and they confirmed I still owned all the shares. He says that it got out of hand too fast for them to cover me, he says that all he can do right now is cover. I was devistated. I asked him to cover at $16 and he waited trying to find me a good exit. I told him to do it asap and the fill was around $18.50 avg.
At the moment not only is my $37k gone, but I now owe ETrade the negative balance of over $106k. I always knew I could blow up an account and I was financially able to "afford" to lose the $37k. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that Etrade would NOT have some sort of stop or circuit breaker in place that would automatically cut a position if the account went to $0.....how could they ever let it get to -$144k loss on a account that small! Also, why did I have to call them to find out what was going on, why did they not alert me or call me when it went neg???
I'm never one to ask for a handout and honestly I'm kinda not sure if I should post this but here we go. I'm sure it will cause lots of controversy on whether or not I deserve even a $1 donation but it doesn't hurt to ask. Anything you traders can do to help me get a little out of this hole would be a blessing for me. Anything donated will go 100% to simply paying Etrade some of this $106,445.56.
My plan moving forward is to liquidate mine and wife's 401k's and try work out a payment plan with Etrade. I'm also going to ask them to help out in some way...thats a longshot. I will pay them and be back trading....only with set stops this time. What an expensive lesson that was.
I hope my story helps someone else from the same.
Here are screenshots of the damage.
An expensive lesson indeed. The Rut blog is less than friendly in its assessment:
The dummy puts in $35K on a short and now owes $ETFC a wonderful $106K.
Let's give this American Youth a round of applause for being smart enough to open a website trading account and dumb enough to buy KBIO. This stupid shit who can't handle responsibility needs to be offered advice, not get a bailout from us. Stupid people.
So please, email Joe Campbell and tell him to take responsibility. The "fairly new trader" Who started in March. You think he'd be donating that cash to all the other people who might now be starting GoFundMe pages to subsidize their horrible trading choices?....Ackman might take note.
We on the other hand have some sympathy: as we have been warning for years, the market is not only broken (thanks to HFTs), and manipulated (thanks to central banks), but is an all-out unregulated wild west, as the SEC is seemingly hell bent on cracking down on Indian and Russian "spoofers" when the real manipulators walk around not only free but with millions.
That said, we do hope that Joe's rookie mistake is a wake up call for anyone who hopes to get rich quick on whatever levered "lottery ticket" du jour is, be it biotechs, retail stocks, commodities, or whatever else the HFTs are momentuming at any one millisecond.
As for Joe, good luck: as of this moment he has raised $141.
He only has $106,304 more to go.
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I wonder, if he raises the money, if he'll use it to buy a new car instead of making the margin call?
what would you do if you were in my situation?"
It's called......BK.
e-Trade Baby Loses Everything
Martin Shkreli gave the kid $5... he does have a heart!
He should be talking with a securities attorney.
Call 1-800-BAD-BROKER
Have you been prescribed something recently by your doctor.....if so.....even better.
Crowd sourced begging. Nice. We need to monetize this and turn it into a hedge fund.
And hopefully the ensuing 3x leveraged short fund....
send him 1/300th of a BTC which is currently trading around 330 bucks. lol
I can't stop laughing. This is ridiculous and shows the whining of America runs deep and wide.
A fool and his money are soon parted; it was a miracle how they got together in the first place.
Joe Campbell if you buh one Bitcoin and sit on it, it will pay off your debt.
https://localbitcoins.com
go the fed disocunt window...borrow a large amount at 0% , pay the margin call, keep the rest of the fed loan and pay the 0% interest forever
Do you think he is former Amaranth, or former Metallgesellschaft? Inquiring minds want to know...
I know a guy who went to the toilet whilst trading uranium back in 2012, when gold was bouncing by $100/day.
He still refers to it as a $40,000 shit.
Never again he says. Yeah, right...
The NEW ETRADE BABY!!
RIPS
I guess this guy isn't "too big to fail".
That was mistake #1.
There are no markets. There are publicized price changes in a government controlled banking system called a market, meant to create confidence in a horribly rotten casino where the house never loses. Even when the house admits loss (TBTF banks), the losses are socialized by the taxpayer.
This poor young fella watched too much CNBC thinking gambling is normal behavior.
Expensive lesson indeed.
My only question to him would be: Would you have given away your gains had you had a 3x positive return?
And that's why I won't support your bailout.
If he were a girl, he could sell some ASSets.
But since is not the case, he will have his fair share of ASSets taken from him in prison. Kinda like this:
http://www.thepornster.net/video/67/
Lets be happy for him.
I have had shorts go bad like this before. The simple thing to do is keep the short small (less than $1000.00) and money in your accound in case you get sodomized. Looks like this guy not only shorted the fraud, he did so on leverage. IDIOT!!
Pucker up buttercup, time to pay the piper
Damn straight. Shoulda used proper risk management and entered bracket orders. No excuse for getting that deep in the shit in one day. Shorting on leverage is just asking to get raped by GoldmanBot.
If he just BTFD he'd be sitting pretty with a cool half mil!
Why would e-trade give such a huge credit line to someone who isn't an accredited investor?
This "retail" level is little kids playing a big boys' game.
I blame the institution for lending to people who are completely clueless about finance.
This Joe Blow guy better get on the phone with a securities lawyer pronto. Minimum security is in this little boy's future if he doesn't resolve this correctly.
I facepalmed at the part where he asked etrade if he could do a "payment plan". lmao. too funny. Then this little boy does his gofundme campaign. This "online begging" will violate something in the millions of pages of securities regulations.
This goes back to Robert Kiyosaki's main premise that we need financial education in the schools. Our society wouldn't be so screwed up if people actually understood how finance actually works. I know the top .0001 something percent love the 99.99% of masses being financially illiterate so they can play them like fiddles and take advantage of them, but it results in the nation falling apart.
Someone give him the money... so he can double down! Lol. He's bound to get rich off someone else's money, one way or another, lol
Turn those machines back on !
Turn those machines back on !
Up to $2631 as of now? Really people??
Fuck it, I'm going to start a GoFundMe panhandling page!
Lol, +1 for Mortimer
E-Trade allows him to short a low float, sub 5 dollar stock...perfect recipe for
"Joe" to napalm himself.
doc IX, greenie for you in re the financial edumacion of our kids. It should start in grade school and mandatory in H.S.
indeed. moral hazard doesn't apply to the house! silly wittle muppet
The only satisfaction Joe will ever get out of Bitcoin while sitting on it - is if the Bitcoin is long, hard, and battery powered.
Buh a dildo, JOE, JUST TO REMIND YOU OF THE OTHER TIME YOU FUCKED YOURSELF REAL GOOD.
My Goldfish, Nemo, is very old and sick and needs a triple by-pass that is going to cost me $106,000. Please GoFundMe. #GoldfishLivesMatter!
FUCK THIS LOSER! If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen...bitch! And who the hell SHORTS a $2.00 stock? There is little-to-NO reward. Beginner? "Kind of new to trading?" No, he's a rank beginner! FUCK THIS BEGGING PIECE OF SHIT LOSER.
Someone please forward this asshole my comments.
oops, double post
I just don't buh teh coinhead's solution a tull
Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
I'm not a day trader, so forgive my ignorance of o am wrong, but for a 37k account to go to negative 100k he would have had be be using a lot of leverage right? Borrowing money to gamble on? So he thought he had a 'sure thing' and borrowed money to increase his gains and now lost his money and the money he borrowed?
Yep. He used his $37k as collateral to "borrow" the shares from eTrade. He then sold shares for ~$2/share. If the stock bottoms out he can buy them back cheap, return the borrowed shares and pocket the extra cash.
The guy doesn't understand what "risk" is. Without any loss protection his upside risk is unlimited if the stock rises.
If you buy a stock, your downside is limited to your investment. However, if you short a stock, you have unlimited downside.
People short stocks where they think it will go down. The way this works is that you borrow stocks from your broker, sell them for market value, and buy them back later to give back to the broker. He borrowed $37k worth of stock and sold them @ $2/share. It then went to $16/share. So now he has to buy them back @ $16/share. (numbers not exact). Anyway, so now he is in the hole.
Short story - selling short is usually not the best way to go. In fact, using the markets to make bets is generally bad both for you and the market.
even e-trade n00bs know there's a buy-to-cover tool that closes your position and stops your losses at a trigger price you set in advance. this way you don't lose your ass
Ya I understand how shorting stocks work, I just can't understand how this guy was able to do that. Irresponsible as hell not only on his part but on etrades part as well for allowing him to do it. And can't you set a stop loss on the upside as well? Like trigger a buy order at, say, 3 dollars? What a fucking tard.
From what I understand there were two problems: (1) is gapped up, and so there was no place to do that, and (2) it happened in after-hours, and this stuff only works during trading hours.
Yea, and that works great until the bots stop you out while sniffing about. How many people do you think got stopped out of trades when the Dow swung over 1000 points intraday back in September ? Stop loss orders are not always the nest protection.
"A fool and his money are soon parted; it was a miracle how they got together in the first place."
He never had money. That's why he used margin (borrowed money) to trade with. Actually the greater fool is eTrade for lending him money to trade stocks.
Can he wait to see if the stock price goes back down, to reduce what he owes? If he can't pay, do they send the eTrade baby to break his legs?
no, you can't wait to see if the price goes back down, unless you deposit sufficient $$ in your account to bring the balance to zero (or nearly so). generally, they are more civilized than breaking your legs. with a liquid and fair market, they will issue a margin call, meaning they call you asking you for instructions. you will generally add more money to the account, or instruct them to liquidate some or all of the position, recovering what you can (and locking in your loss). they have the right to liquidate without calling you. in this case, the market moved significantly between close and open, giving him no chance to get out with some skin left.
The interest rate is usually based on a daily rate of return, not yearly, so it can get very expensive very fast to hold the position until it 'gets better'. If you look at your brokerage agreement you'll find it in the tiniest, microscopic print buried in the middle of the phone book everyone signs when they sign up for a trade account. Fact is he misread the que, didn't properly measure his expectations...AND...most importantly...this one is so often overlooked.
SET HIS STOP LOSS.
In what world are you guys setting stops that help you get out when a stock gaps up 800% between sessions.
How?
It's impossible.
You. Don't. Be. Greedy. That's how. Same rules apply to blackjack, dice or dominoes. You plan your in and out at the table. You plan what you can afford to lose before you plan on your profit. If you don't plan. You don't play very long.
For newbie trader, he should have placed his stop loss on his short to 2% if the risk was high. If playing with pharma's on the short ticket rides no one in their right mind would chase a pop on the chart in the beginning without establishing that the ride might not end. When a stock goes apeshit, down or up, you're are then no longer looking at a reason to be in that stock under fluffy news. The only sensible position to be in then is first ratcheting a trade by a 2% trailing stop loss that follows the price action. OR pounding the sell button as fast as you can.
Any trader that survives longer than their first trade dismisses the myth of 'maximizing profits'.
The reality is invest where it's needed. Unless someone invented and passed a drug that is a pancea of all things, the fact is most of what's sold on the PINK/OTC is garbage. What mystifies me about this type of day trading is the complete and total lack of patience to first practice the idea with paper and pencil. It's not like there isn't a shortage of OTC crap to daytrade another time. Not taking the time to test a theory, that's just dumb. 99.99% of the publicly traded market space is compromised solely of craptacular investments that are all backed with pigshit and unicorn futures. The smartest position to be in when the media is explaining which stock to pick at this point, is simply not to play. But when some knuckle head gets the investment fever, it's like telling an alcoholic to stop after a single drink.
There are about a thousand other ways that 36 grand could have made working capital. Shove it in a savings account and leave it alone, no risk. Or with 36k, could have built a business and got the return back in sweat equity. The idea of shorting a pigshit grade pharma stock, not at the top of that list unless you want something that costs a lot to wipe your ass with.
Correct! Trade on credit and lose your shirt. That is no financial entity operating under the current paradigm is making it out with a real copper penny in their pocket. The entire system is built on leveraged credit while running interest while calculating on interest on principal. The math alone will eventually put the handful of trillionaires in the poor house regardless of their percieved capitalization. When it goes full on zimbabwe, as it always does, 100 trillion might as well be worth 0. For the newbie trader begging for jew confetti for shorting himself to death, he didn't lurk enough or play with numbers on paper for a couple of years to learn the two rules to trading:
Ethier position will just get a trader looking for a quick swap beaten. Especially in a rigged market place and more so when the entire trade is built on leveraged credit based on capital that was non-exsistent to begin with. Afterall fiat is called fiat because it's not really worth anything is it?
Jesus Christ know he didn't. It's even in the screenshot. Some of you are as retarded as the reps you get on the phone at Schwab.
Isn't he just doing what the big boys get to do using their corrupt mentch in the government....socialize the losses baby!
LESSON 1 IN LIFE:
SHIT ONLY DROPS DOWN
And the fact he's thinking they'll allow him a payment plan...
It's forbidden to take a loan to downpay stocks or options. There goes his plan...
and if you can't put up your shares... you go to jail. The law is pretty clear on that one. And after he comes out of jail after 10 to 15 years, he'll still have to pay the money.
Talk about a ruined life.
And believe me, like that idiot, I know to many people who are doing the same and I even know people who are down 160K for being short on the european indexes and they're going skyhigh right now.
And then the fact that he was trading on margin and didn't know he owned them the shares??????? WTF!!!!!
THAT GUY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NEAR A TRADING ACCOUNT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!
It's one of the most risky trading instruments there are when you trade on margin. YOUR LOSSES CAN BE ENDLESS!!!
I'm pretty sure he didn't even had a risk model either.
Im ignorant with this sort of thing, so this is a serious question. Are you joking? He will go to prison for this?
Yep, people should read the disclosures on the trading sites and not click it all away in 5 seconds.
It's like writting a bad cheque, it's exactly like writting a bad cheque!
He's negative on his account where he's not allowed to be negative.
When he sold, the clock started ticking where he has to come up with the money.
24 HOURS!!!
Now, he must have put up some collateral, and most probably that are his 401K plans. Those are gone.
They'll charge him 40% on the loan and that can rise pretty fast!
At this very moment, he has nothing anymore! All his accounts will be frozen by tomorrow!
So even if he collects some money of the begging site, he can't access it.
And his wife... same thing if they're married.
And then the banks comes after you for the money and if you can't put up... you stole the money.
And they go pretty hard against people like that.
He'll no longer be a Mom and Pop trader after he sells the kids to meet margin.
what is the going rate to sell your kids for medical experiments? did i miss out on an opportunity?
You're speaking rocket science to a mom and pop investor. This Joe Blow sees the stock market the same way trailer park dwellers see lottery tickets, or the same way working class old folks see slot machines.
You stick currency in, hit a few buttons, and statistical chance determines wheter there is a "win" or "loss".
I'm also sure that this mom and pop Joe Blow investor didn't have a mentor either. Not having a mentor is the absolutely dumbest thing one can possibly do. The mentor needs to rough one up and take 'em to task as that is the best way to learn.
You are an idiot. If he owes Etrade money they cannot freeze his BAC checking account and the odds of Etrade tapping his 401K or IRA is next to 0. Another thing, if they are in FL or some other states with joint tennats by the entirety that account is protected if his Etrade account was personal and not joint.
No, all those rules changed after everything shit the bed in 2007 - 2008. There is no mark to market anymore. There is only mark to fantasy land and crazy town.
With all, not some, ALL of the banks nearly are singularily owned by federal level and regulated banks (remember all the local and state side banks all busted in 2007-2008). It really doesn't matter at this point what the states say in the matter unless the corporation is based in that state, incorporated by that state and taxed in that state. Under the Bush administration, all of those security measures and legal loopholes were given away under the TARP laws and amendments. Then all the banks that were 'okay' were bailed out to eat banks, brokerages and insurance companies in the FIRE sale of the century.
It's pretty clear in the changes that were quickly done that he's screwed and like was mentioned. It's 10 -15 years in prison while still owing money on the capital while it accrues interest. That's just the long and short of it. He needs to get a lawyer, or figure out how to cough up the dough fast.
Jesus Christ, never ever post again. All of this is complete bullshit
Really?
The RFC for the change as proposed because the FASB determined it really didn't matter if they told the true value of any asset on the books as long are the banks were allowed to borrow against the original value of the home.
http://www.fasb.org/summary/stsum157.shtml
Congress passes the Change
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/business/03fasb.html?_r=0
Made it easier for banks to ignore the results of the PPIP auctions which translated into meltdowns and the big push to bulldoze entire states of newly homes which led to robosigning scandal since the idea was to slap up MORE homes no one could afford since the economy went tits up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_foreclosure_crisis
After it all shit the bed you could buy a house in Detriot for 500 dollars..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_foreclosure_crisis
People were PAYING to give away timeshares in Florida.
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=970554
In Arizona as well
http://sedonaeye.com/diamond-resorts-assumes-los-abrigados-management/
All over the place. Entire world property market BLEW UP. BOOM! Couldn't give a away a house...or a timeshare...or anything on earth. Only reason the housing market has 'rebounded' is because a pound of ground beef that once sold for 39 cents pound is now around 7 bucks. With all the printing happening. Inflation has driven both the price of homes and bread up. Strangely ignoring oil and PM's. So what does that tell you about the future situation and it's direction and the reality of the current situation regarding demographics and social situation.
Hash over that overview and the obvious answer will be become apparent pretty quickly.
I thought you can't be convicted of a crime if it can't be proved you knowingly broke the law. ??? Where is the evidence that he knew his losses could be unlimited? Maybe he owes the money but can't be convicted of fraud.
We'll call it 'the lost art of hedging'.
He should have bought shares in E-Trade isntead.
He should invest in a nail-gun ...
Hillary's Treasury Secy??
Live by the rigged markets... die by the rigged markets...
Joe Campbell should have bought physical gold and silver.
Joe Sixpack should take heart, KBIO is only trading at 10.40 now, so he's been making money on his short position since this morning's spike! take that Shkreli! ha!
Lots of dumb mistakes here.
Only a total newbie would short a $2 stock. And brokers aren't supposed to allow it. He should go bankrupt and let etrade eat that. Except he probably has a lot more to lose -- remember he kept the account low as a means of protection.
Folks saying he should have used a stop or bracket are imbeciles, waiting to face the same disaster. Stops don't help if there is a gap. That is what happened here; the buyout news caused a gap up.
Let this be a lesson. Buy a put. Don't short unless you REALLY UNDERSTAND money management. And doing naked shorts means you don't understand money management. Learn what hedging means.
He doesn't need one, the e-trade baby is gonna break his legs.
NO STOP LOSS? If it went the other way what would you do.. nothng he will be celebrating with new found wealth!! Luck is for suckers.. He should thank ZH he is going to raise money now.. I have gotten margin calls in the forex market but i even knew back then put a stop loss!!!! I say Fuck him...
If he'd playing the newly-released Hyperdimension Neptunia re;birth3 V Generation like any normal person, he never would have gotten into this mess.
Do you have to chop your dick off before playing that game, or only afterwards?
Why. So E-Trade has to eat his trading losses and pass them along to other customers via higher fees? So E-Trade will respond to all future customers who want to short by forcing them to fill out endless applications and go through endless screenings and approvals and deny most of them for no good reason as has become the case for options and futures?
How about instead of using the legal system to fight for his own personal bailout this guy takes the same responsibility for his short that he would have insisted on taking if he had been long.
If he had been long, would you counsel E-trade to talk with a securities attorney about suing him?
Boo-hoo.
Retail shouldn't be in the market, and never should have. Any brokerage giving that much credit to regular schmucks in this market environment deserves to go bankrupt.
And as for the debt itself, the guy should default. That is an unpayable debt, and you should always default as soon as possible on unpayable debts. Fuck you and your "responsibility" of slaves. Let it do what it should and ruin his credit and bankrupt him at worst. Reality is the arbiter of fairness, and the reality is that Etrade shouldn't allow retail clients (or anyone) to make such huge unhedged bets without having a shit-ton of margin on deposit or some major collateral. They now have to take THEIR responsibility for making a huge loan without proper protection.
+1 tmosley
excellent comment
E-trade lent money out to an incompetent borrower, that's their fault too. It's a 2-way street. We have this bizarre ethic in American society about borrowers being "morally obligated" blah, blah, blah. This was a form of predatory lending (even though its probably not legally defined as such). Why would they lend so much money with a margin to someone who was obviously NOT an accredited investor?
I always give the institution more blame because they are the professionals who should know what they are doing, and the borrower is typically financially illiterate, and can be easily taken advantage of. The borrower doesn't have a team of lawyers analyzing every document that ends up on their desk, whereas the lender does.
Sounds like you have superior wisdom to be objectively determining who should and shouldn't "be allowed" to do what with his own property. Impressive. Maybe you will run for political office or Fed governor and actually impose your vision on everyone as others who claim such superior insights do.
As for the rest of us individuals who don't claim to tell others what they are and aren't competent to do with their own property, but merely insist they take responsibility for their actions, I'm content to let the contract this guy and ETrade signed determine his fate. I'm guessing that contract says he's responsible for all his trades. He agreed to that.
Etrade is not the government. Etrade is not a TBTF bank that is tantamount to being an arm of the government. The brokerage business is relatively competitive. Etrade did not force this guy to agree to its contract terms or use its service.
Yeah, Etrade does have a collection problem, I agree. But Etrade's error in making a poorly collaterized loan does not mean the debtor gets to laugh off his agreed-upon debt practically or morally. If the courts should be employed at all, it should be to assist Etrade in successful collection. If you are going to argue against respect for private property and against respecting contracts between private parties, you and I will find very little to agree upon.
"He agreed to that."
Yeah, and if I agree to sell you my kidney in exchange for an unpaid landscaping bill, that doesn't mean it's legally enforceable, or should be.
"But Etrade's error in making a poorly collaterized loan does not mean the debtor gets to laugh off his agreed-upon debt practically or morally."
Bankruptcy is no laughing matter.
He should get a nice financial kick in the nuts, but to take everything the guy owns while E-Trade suffers nothing is completely immoral and wrong. E-Trade were the dumb fucks who loaned him the money. They should suffer equally. But they won't. Our system is not just at all.
A fool and his money are soon parted:
List O' Fails:
A) What person gets into shorting in their first year
B) Expectation that your broker has ANY fiduciary responsibility for your wellbeing... rotflmao
C) Ummm... any short position should have a stop YOU SET UP YOURSELF. Shorts are potentially infinite loss.
D) People here thinking he should waste money seeing a securities attorney. On a site all about how Big Brother is bad... how does this site generate such a wave of upvotes for a post giving someone advice to see if someone will bail out their idiocy and greed.
E) I could go on, but I'm too busy making money on stocks... not bitcoin or goooooolllddd (I actually like making money).
Peak stupidity
Mr. Campbell just needs to sit down wirh E*Trade and ask for his money back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eh8lDJpwZc
Where do I donate?
I made my "deposit" thismorning he's welcomed to it
GoFuckMe.com
He should call the ECB, they'll pay him to take out a loan.
If you donate, don't forget to send him a 1099. He owes taxes on that money. TotUS golfing vacations don't pay for themselves, don't 'cha know.
All I can think of is..."Jump you Fuckers!"
I love that poster!
He would have KEPT it all if it went his way. Cry babby.
You can donate to anyone. You just can't take it as a charitable deduction. I believe the limit is something like 11K a year per donor per person. I could donate to 100 people 11K each and none of them nor I would have to report it. I could if I had it.
Did Shrkreli just accumulate 45% of the likely thinly traded issue all in one swoop? No mention of him making 5% filings with the SEC.
Why do I feel like this was engineered for the benefit of the Clinton Campaign? SHADY...
Speaking of “hearts”…Hillary is losing BADLY with the under 30 crowd…so her TV ads are almost all about college cost/debt…featuring (financially stupid, helpless, unable to “make it” on their own – Sorry Fems, but that’s how Hillary is portraying them) women with 10’s of thousands in college debt.
One ad features a young black women with ~$40,000 (can’t remember exact number) in student loans, working late in a dark office, sitting alone where the peon’s sit with her boss in HIS office behind her.
Hillary’s voiceover saying…“it took her 4 years to accumulate this debt, but it will take her 25 years to pay it off”
Take a good look at this “poor”, black, student loan victim…wearing high end clothing, jewelry, straightened hair, perfect makeup, nails…can’t see her shoes, but you know they’re not from WalMart…maybe instead of spending all of her money on herself, she could pay it off in less than 25 years?
FireBrander
She went to Mizzou
WTF are you doing shorting anything if you aren't prepared to lose........and on e-trade too, seriously?!
Yeah, didn't this guy have a stop? Why didn't he use puts instead? Didn't understand tail risk and the tail whacked him.
Stops won't work after hours. They would have been filled at the open today.
In this case a GTC stop actually would have triggered after hours and saved him since the news came out right at the market close and GTC orders will trigger during the 3pm to 5:30pm CT session. But stop's are certainly not fool proof if the news comes out over night or correlated futures move massively over night.
Exactly. Puts would have been a much, much better idea.
OTM Calls would have been even sweeter.
Or buy 4K of protection the other way. That guy got greedy as hell. They all think they're the wonderboys.
I don't pitty him for one bit, everybody learns it the hard way. My first trade that I lost was 13k and it was in Enron stock for god sake!
But begging for money? That's his sollution?
And blame others. It's the New American Way
and start begging because now it seem to be the American way.
The fact that this moron has already collected over 2200 dollars just invites everybody to post something like this online.
Most people have to work a month for this!
Exactly, he should have bought put options, that is if the market was liquid for them and he was not playing an already crowded trade posted on some online Sham-Wow trading ideas site.
Here is my advice loser
Buy a nail gun
The dummy puts in $35K on a short and now owes $ETFC a wonderful $106K.
1. You never short a bubble.
2. Go back and read number 1.
Look on the bright side. Those "associates" who talked him into the crowd funding are having the time of their lives. They never laughed so hard as when they read his plea for cash. They are texting each other back and forth every other minute. Damn, I wish I would have been in on that. Great job fellas, you will be laughing about this for decades.
Damn, I get the giggle shits just thinking about it.
This guy is an ASSHAT
Open window, crawl out on ledge, look at pavement below.....................
No! Don't look down! If he looks down he might get scared and not do it!
JUMP! JUMP! JUMP!
This dumb ass appearntly wants to liquidate his wifes 401k before he even considers a BK
My guess is his wife is seriously considering trading him in
Trading? Bad choice of words.
He probably doesn't even know what a BK even is.
A lot of little people out there think bankruptcy is the end of the world. Donald Trump has done it how many times and he's worth billions and can personally finance a presidential campaign.
At the current pace of donations, he'll have it covered in 220 days. Just needs another 6,000 people to follow the lead of his 8 aunts & uncles.
Now she'll be broke also.
I'm guessing his wife doesn't know yet what he's done.
2 words for the guy "bankruptcy court"
Go fund yourself
LOL!!! You almost woke the baby, jerk! Thanks.
Live by the sword. Die by the sword. Or you can jump. Or you could stay out of the rigged casino and find hinest work.
Tyshawn Lee's Mom buys new car with GoFundMe funeral donations after her son was executed in a gang-related shooting
> The boy's mother, Karla Lee, 26, has admitted she used GoFundMe money meant for her son's funeral to buy a new car
>The boy's father, Pierre Stokes, started a separate GoFundMe to sell 'memorial shirts' with his son's picture on them for $25-$45
...and those Syrian refugees think they're escaping a shithole by coming to America...LOL.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3312202/I-100-percent-afraid-life-Mom-bought-new-car-GoFundMe-donations-son-executed-gang-related-shooting-says-people-her.html#ixzz3rwj21Npw"I will pay them and be back trading." <---------------- Are you fucking serious?
"I will pay them and be back trading." <---------------- Are you fucking serious?
Agree - spoken like a true addict, and we should fund this?
There are many of us (hint) that have been above average traders, some of us turned 10K accounts into $100K accounts in months, we helped our friends turn their 10K in to 25K in months, and when we were humbled with negative equity, we either sucked it up and made payments or filed bankruptcy. And what did we do about the friends that we helped to improve their balance sheet on paper for a few months, to only turn their margin account negative as well-- the ones of those that were real friends are still around, the others - who knows.
When someone older than you talks - it is in your best interest to at least consider what they are saying.
So without saying my age:
I've had a good year in stocks as I say so myself. I'm up 17%.
But when I said that to friends, they look at me like I actually lost! Why do all that trouble for 17%? It's not going fast enough.
They all go on margin and now most of down the shithole like the guy who is beggin.
I even don't options anymore! Only stocks!
And the amount of people who are taking hughe risk to make up older losses... some of them need to recover so much, they'd better win the lottery.
Some are playing stocks of which they don't even know what the company is doing as a bizz... just the numbersgame...
for fuck sake...
Sage advice. I would only add that unless you are very experienced and sticking to stocks that have a healthy daily volume, the only responsible way to short is through puts. This guy's disaster was all too predictable, not because of this particular company, but because Mr. Market is a motherfucker. If you think the time premium on the puts you want is too expensive, that's a sign that you're late to the game; find a different stock, and sit on your hands until you do.
This is what's known as good money after bad.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Mah momma always said, life is like a box of dicks. You get to pick the one you'd like to fuck yourself with.
Maybe he'll finally buy some 'limit buy' orders. I hear those are helpful when wanting to limit your loses. Hell, a far OTM call option would have been cheap to buy and profitable now to stem the losses. This guy got what he deserved.
*Edit* Just checked and there are no options available on this shitshow of a company. So yes, when you sow ass raping, you reap an ass raping.
GoFuckMe
RoadKill asking for a Heart Transplant.
Y'all don't know nothing about me!!!
I'm envisioning a new E-Trade commercial with Kevin Spacey..."Opportunieis can be everywhere...or not...but you know the difference....Good...very good...you are type E"
1) Become a black woman.
2) Set up ten GoFundMe accounts and claim 100% of the proceeds will go toward _______ (you name it: kid's funeral, weave, 20-inch blaaaaaades)
3) Collect said monies.
4) Pay off eTrade debt you got yourself into because you're an ignorant waterhead who couldn't read the fine goddamned print if it were magnified by a factor of four-hundred and shoved up your prison pocket.
5) Repeat as desired.
I'm waiting for the follow up story that Shkrely has pulled out and KBIO is back trading at sub 50 cents.
that is exactly what will happen.
I wonder, if he had made $106k instead of losing it, would he look for strangers to share the money with?
You know, i was thinking of giving the guy a buck. Then I saw the stupid fuck could not spell.
He should take the money and go back and get some spelling lessons.
I will send some feces
I got my ass handed to me on short margain about 20 years ago and learned a hard lesson. The broker is the one who keeps the money when your account turns negative, they have no incentive to protect you.
Bottom line, we eventually settled for about 25 cents on the dollar. So it's not as bad as he thinks...
"what would you do if you were in my situation..."
Quit fucking trading. File bankruptcy.
I once got up to take a piss during an earnings announcement and when I came back I was out over 30k (my $, not OPM)... When it got under 10k I cut my losses and called it a day, then went to the bar and got pissed, and came back the next day, wiser for the real world experience of having not known what I actually knew. 100% allocation to an overnight short position in a penny stock??? Basic arithmetic. I think the ZH equivalent is READ BEFORE YOU POST, because obviously he never read and absorbed ANYTHING intelligent about risk management.
And Etrade let him do it knowing that they would ultimately be responsible if the position blew up.
Reminds me of all the people blaming the regular jack-offs for buying more house than they could afford during the bubble rather than blaming the banks and the Fed.
I actually had etrade account for competitive surveillance when I worked in retail & commercial banking (y2k era). My impression was etrade was trying to be "all things to all people", and when you try to create any single financial product that serves both the naive etrade babies and more experienced and sophisticated traders, you're asking for trouble. But at least back during the Clinton years a lot of the industry had margin desk issues, because no one was really setup for retail back office issues after hours. That they haven't developed a comprehensive fix well over a decade later makes we wonder what the fuck they've been doing all this time, but if they're doing it... other firms are doing it too. But if I was grand poobah, almost no one would have a brokerage account- because I don't see that most Series 7 phone monkeys know how to properly explain the mandated investment objectives and risk tolerance question, much less the prospective customers know how to correctly answer which boxes they want ticked.
I avoid the situation altogether, kind of like avoiding heroin ...
LOL! Now, fuck you, pay me!
Great Goodfellas reference
+1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrpROr9Gmk
This seems appropriate about now, "ETrade. You can't take it back"
Their commercials did kick ass and this one is triple leveraged lol
screw etrade. That company needs to be driven out of business-into the ash heep of History with all the other crooks on Wall Street
Better put Trixie to work. What's really screwed up is that the other end of the trade was probably a computer.