This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Should People Be Allowed To Work For $1 An Hour?
Submitted by Jonathan Newman via The Mises Institute,
What is the least you would be willing to be paid to verify business addresses or phone numbers for a database? If you had a large online inventory and wanted simple word tags to describe each one of your products for search engine optimization, how much would you be willing to pay somebody to trudge through your product images and generate tags?
Tasks like these still require human labor, but a voluntary wage for such tasks is usually very low, especially relative to legislated minimum wages.
Despite exponential growth in computing power and capabilities over the past few decades, computers still struggle with simple tasks like identifying objects in a picture, making qualitative judgments, and confirming the accuracy of language translations. Amazon embraced this fact and connected those that need these Human Intelligence Tasks (HITs) performed with the humans willing to do them.
The service is called Amazon Mechanical Turk, after the fake chess-playing machine constructed in 1770. It was just a real, human chess master playing from inside a box. Back then, no such artificial computing capabilities existed, mechanical or otherwise. Like the “machine,” Amazon Mechanical Turk involves humans doing the work, even if the task seems suited for computers.
A company with a large catalog might want to find and eliminate duplicate listings, but the items’ pictures and descriptions might be a little different, making computers unqualified for the job. “Turkers” may also fill out surveys for marketing information, social science research, or really anything the task creator wants to ask a large number of people. Audio and video transcriptions are common, too.
Submissions are judged by having multiple people perform the same task. If their submissions are the same or very similar, the task requester can assume that they are really working on the task and not just filling in random text to complete tasks.
Below is an example of a HIT that asks people to pull information from pictures of receipts. If three people perform this HIT and two of the responses for the business address city are “Lincoln Park,” but one of the responses is “a;sldkfj,” the first two would be paid and not the third. Having more than one submission per HIT is more costly, but the task requesters get more accurate responses this way.

Today, there are more than 500,000 workers and around 200,000 HITs listed. Most tasks will earn the worker just a few cents, but some workers have been able to make a living from the service. As a member satisfactorily completes the simpler but lower-paying HITs, they are granted access to the higher-paying ones. A dedicated few make thousands of dollars a month by working full time. Others make a few extra hundred dollars a month by doing HITs after their regular job.
A recent study found that almost half of the MTurk workers performed tasks while at their primary job: “For example, a cab driver at the airport may answer survey questions while waiting for a fare. A teacher or office worker could MTurk during lunch break.”
Many enjoy doing the tasks as a form of relaxation and social engagement. Although the tasks seem incredibly boring to me, some find it an escape from boredom. Through turker-only forums, they have built a large, thriving community. They direct their fellow turkers to fun and high-paying HITs and help them steer clear of tasks posted by those who might fraudulently withhold payment for a completed task. Hayek would be impressed.
Minimum-Wage Activists Strike Again
The most common hourly rate for working on HITs is about $1. As such, minimum wage proponents have railed against Amazon Mechanical Turk, calling it modern day slavery. They see people having fun and voluntarily exchanging pennies for simple tasks and want it abolished. Bored people should just stay bored.
What would they say is an appropriate price for asking somebody to select what color a shirt is in a picture? How much should they charge for filling out their age, sex, and favorite ice cream flavor in a survey?
The correct answer, of course, is whatever the two parties agree on. Workers can scroll through hundreds of thousands of HITs and decide for themselves which ones are worth the payment, which is listed with each HIT. If something looks too long and complicated for the advertised payment, they can simply pass on it. The workers have complete control over which tasks they perform, what hours they work, and, of course, whether they are signed up to be an Amazon Mechanical Turk worker at all!
In the early days of Amazon Mechanical Turk, Salon ran an article on it that read like an exposé of a cult or a crime ring. They found a man who does HITs for fun and made him out to be an unknowing slave to evil corporate interests:
Curtis Taylor, 50, a corporate trainer in Clarksville, Ind., who has earned more than $345 on Mturk.com, doesn’t even think of turking as work. To him, it’s a way to kill time. “I’m not in it to make money, I’m in it to goof off,” he says. Taylor travels a lot for business and finds himself sitting around in hotel rooms at night. He doesn’t like to watch TV much, and says that turking beats playing free online poker. To him, it’s “mad money,” which he blows buying gifts on Amazon, like Bill Bennett’s “America, the Last Best Hope,” for his son, a junior in high school. “If I ever stop being entertained, I’ll stop doing it,” he says. “I’ll just quit.”
Yet what’s a happy diversion for Taylor is serious business for the companies on Amazon Mechanical Turk.
It turns out that there is a market for bored people. Prices emerge to pull them out of their boredom by working on simple tasks.
There are other ways people with extra time on their hands can provide labor services for low or even no pay. Certainly minimum wage proponents wouldn’t condemn volunteering for charities like homeless shelters, soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, disease awareness/cure campaigns, etc. Yet, what non-arbitrary feature distinguishes this sort of work from other lines of work that might offer a wage lower than any proposed minimum wage?
Not All Value Is Expressed in Dollars
In all voluntary arrangements, both the worker and the employer agree to a mutually beneficial wage, which sometimes means $0/hour. Even if nothing tangible is trading hands, it doesn’t mean that volunteers get nothing out of their work. Their “payment” is knowing they did something nice for free. It’s not really a wage or a payment in the economic sense, though, because the employer doesn’t lose this good feeling, like they would forgo money wages for paid work. In fact, volunteering labor like this is more appropriately considered a gift, not an exchange of labor for a wage.
When individuals make a choice, they aren’t just exchanging goods for goods or services for money, but they are making choices over alternative states of the world.
A potential volunteer isn’t weighing $0 against time working for some charity, they are weighing all the consequences of helping a charity versus not helping, including the subjective feelings they have for the cause and the knowledge that they had a hand in its well-meaning goals.
Likewise, a turker only agrees to a $0.01 HIT if the task looks easy or fun enough. They weigh the prospect of doing the task and receiving one penny versus missing out on the fun and not receiving the penny. Again, “fun” is also subjective. Most of the tasks look downright boring to me.
Whether a job requires intense effort and a specialized skill or just having a human brain, market prices are the only way to match people that want to do the job with the people that want the job done. Even $0/hour is sometimes voluntarily chosen by a worker who simply wants to help a certain cause. Mandated minimum wages eliminate these kinds of peaceful and productive arrangements, leaving both parties unsatisfied and society worse off.
- 255 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -


Should people be allowed to work for $1 an hour?
Great. Now the convicts want a raise too.
Or else they gonna get all indignant and shit. Fortunately, they have lots of safe spaces where they live.
Yes. Wages and work are a contract between the employer and employee, no one else.
For me it is relative. I make much more than a dollar an hour but 100% of it goes to taxes. Therefore my issue is not with my employer but the State. We live off my husbands paycheck.
So I guess that makes us a one income family in the new normal world.
Miffed
People should either work for free, or pay their employers for making them productive members of society.
Just give everybody one of them magical printing presses that stamps out Yellenbux so they can stimulate the living rat fuck out of the economy, and all will be well.
We don't need no steenking banks or governments, we just need a shit ton of printing presses !
Glad to see you back.
The Zero Hedge world needs a Miffed Microbiologist - thank God you are here again.
A microbiologist commenting on a $1/hour story brings a great feeling, since the microbiologist is Miffed.
Happy to see you back at ZH.
Welcome back
Thanks everyone. 4+ years ago I came here searching for answers, miffed that I knew I had been duped by the purported experts and those in MSM. Over the years, as I became aware of the lies and the tenuous house of cards our country had found itself, my screen named should have been changed to pretty damn pissed off microbiologist. But the alliteration wouldn't work.
I think in my heart I will always just be Miffed. A lowly tax/wage slave that is inquisitive, questioning, thoughtful and trying to find Truth in all things. That can be challenging today.
Thanks to all of you for such kind words. It is comforting to know there is always a place I can find other obstreperous awake misfits when the mind numbed zombies around me wear me down.
Miffed;-)
After another iteration or two you will end up in the same place most of us eventually do: Saddened, but Resigned and Determined Microbiologist (also working on a double major in Applied End-Times Political Science.)
"between the employer and employee, no one else"
Bully: Mr Principal, stay out of this! Its a contract. Nerdy gives me his lunch money and
I don't hit him with my fist.
So, NidStyles, bully or bully wannabe?
bzzzzzt! wrong answer. bad analogy. you lose!
the situation between employer and employee is voluntary.
the situation between bully and victim is non-voluntary, it is coercive / criminal.
if you can't understand this simple concept, then you have no business commenting.
"Voluntary" is an inadequate way to describe the employment relationship. There is unequal skin in the game, going both ways. And asymmetry of information. The one thing an employee can know for sure is that he will be paid less than his employer values his labor, or else the employer is making no profit and probably won't be in business for long.
When I moved from my small hometown to the regional city, my wages doubled at the same frycooking job, and my rent stayed the same. That was because in the small town, the landlords were able to maintain an artificial scarcity of rental housing and profit, while the employers were able to maintain artificially low wages as you'd have to drive an hour or two to make more than they rather openly colluded to pay. The larger market of the big city prevented, or at least reduced, the ability to manipulate the markets in labor and housing.
I knew my career as an employee was over when I told my employer if he ever brought up an issue with me for the first time at a pay review, I would quit on the spot. I care enough to do the job right and I hold myself to some standards. He owed it to me to tell me immediately if there was an issue, if only out of respect for my integrity. I don't think I've ever seen a more uncomfortable squirmy chickenshit of a man, when I said that. Within a few months I'd quit, and going out on my own to do the exact same task, doubled my income while working about a third less. Yes, he and his family had expensive tastes. It was much more manageable for me to support just my own family, and it got a lot eaiser and more fruitful when I no longer had to support his. Yet he still has employees, and he's still paying them less than half what their work is worth to him. He's making a nice living off their conditioned fear of self-determination.
So while it is indeed a voluntary relationship, there's a lot more to it than that.
don't need to hear your life story, fella.
you've said a whole lot of nothing, provided no basis to back up your assertion that the word voluntary is inadequate to describe the situation.
the word voluntary is 100% accurate, it is a voluntary exchange.
voluntary doesn't mean both parties come to the table with equal negotiating position, or "equal skin in the game", nor does it matter *at all* if they have "asymmetry of information", none of these has anything to do with whether the exchange is voluntary or not.
The word voluntary is 100% irrelevent.
So if the cops come to arrest me for a free speech violation (speaking my own contradictory to groupthink opinions without a permit) and I choose to go with them instead of getting my skull bashed in, then I "voluntarily" went to jail?
Intersting, since The State bullied (coerced) both kids into being present at the Edewkayshin Camps in the first place.
Didn't quite thought that one through, did ya?
No.
What can you can you say about a contract between WalMart and a typical minimum wage earner?
WalMart is clearly way more powerful and the "negotiation" is fraudulent.
There is no legal contract at all under such circumstances.
WMT is a corporation. It's existence, as we know it, is backed by the guns of government. It is a mischaracterization to use Walmart as an example of free association.
Are you saying WalMart should pay a minimum wage?
And a slave contract is an example of your free men gaining decent terms with tyrants. Is this an example of the Austrian School´s lunacy of existing negotiations on equal terms. Your tyrants stole everything from you and you are happy to get scraps form his table, if he allows it, you sheeple. Real men engaged to armed struggle against such bastards. This was the way the Western Society bought its liberties and they were not parallel to abiding with your masters´voice.
I've heard of people buying cheap sub $25 Android phones to farm out these click based, watch a video,survey deals. Some have like 10 phones going and click them going throughout the day to acrew enough for a cash payout or gift card.
Back in the late 90's up until 2001 I was CFO for a Telecomm Construction Co.
We had a class of workers known as Cable Spicers. They demanded to be paid based on piece rate. Couldn't convince them to take a wage or salary, they wanted piece rate.
Essentially for each pair of wires/fiber spliced they would be paid a set rate of something like $0.35 up to $0.60.
Put together something that made sure they never fell below the equivalent California minimum wage for the hours worked. Only paid that to one guy that was hired late Friday evening and took to the field for an overview and meet the crew type stuff.
These guys made in the neighborhood of $4,500 a week. And if a competitor offered a penny more per piece, the whole crew would up and leave for that extra penny. Aggravating bidding war, a two cents at a time, for two years or so.
Sure why not. Just the end result of "globalization" where the US worker is "competing against $9.00/day labor in Asia. So really $8.00/day is too low and should be $1-2 dollars higher for freight equalization. This is how our fine elected people make deals. I am for country based wage equalized tarrifs. It is time to get serious and bring good jobs home and let us all "compete" on an "egualized playing field". Just love the terms. It is only "fair" and will do a lot to equalize the "injustice" for these low wages for the American worker. That or we can recalculate all the debt. On way or another.
A free market...If we were to ever have such a thing, would be the most accurate and equitable way of determining the value of one's labor, but as those who see it as their job to define and pursue fairness for us, those who see nothing fair about any market place, will instead corrupt any market to the point to where no one has any sense of what is fair, or even what has value. WE are lost in a maze of madness because we abandoned the free market for a dream, an illusion, that we now find ourselves lost within.
Anyobdy who accepts 'DOLLARS' for wage payment is getting screwed in the end.
So, I guess you work for peanuts....
Fuck you you fucking fuck.
I went to the LCS this morning to 'exchange 'fiats' for Ag bullion.
- $6.09 premium for silver eagles
- ZERO 10 oz bars on hand, only a small handful of 1 oz various 'rounds' on hand. Only about $50 bucks worth of JUNK...
Blow me bitch!
You mean that same silver that KEEPS DROPPING IN VALUE? And you say that fiat is worthless? And when you go to cash in your silver, you lose that 30% premium
Hahahahahaha
Thanks JPMorganshiemgoldfuckenbernstein for that sage piece of economic advice... Go lick Janet Yellesn's gray hairy balls while you're at it.
Wow, you are so brilliant, you just lost 30% to 40% of the value of all the silver you bought today becasue of comissions/premiums. Give yourself a BJ to make yourself feel better.
Even if I did, pay a 30% PREMIUM to buy an ounce of Ag today, What do you suppose the differential will be with regards to those vs. cheesepopebux in the future?
Please quantify, (& by all means, don't hesitate to use thousands year old standards), or better yet, just kindly STFFup
dude dont argue with an idiot...
just tell him to take a couple of his $1 Federal Reserve Notes into a coin shop and try to purchase a 1964 Kennedy 50 cent piece.....
i think it just may dawn on him that something is very strange...or not...
Better yet, you take your own FRN's and buy his "junk silver" at the current spot price, since it's so worthless. Let him figure out what's odd, or not figure it out, on his own time.
When SHTF, as in the US dollar crashing, it will cause s worldwide crash. PMs will DROP substantially in value. Not worthless, but nowhere near the prices/value they are at right now.
Bugs always point out localized events, like Weimar, Argentina, Zimbabwe, etc. Those events happened in isolation and the worldwide markets were still healthy. In a worldwide collapse, there will be no market for PMs.
PMs are a luxury that are bought in good times, with surplus income. That market doesn't exist in a worldwide collapse, or even in a worldwide slowdown. All luxuries will go for peanuts in a worldwide slowdown or collapse. People want basics and functional products, not luxuries.
What happened to the price of gold and silver in late 2008? If they are so valuable, why did they DROP instead of go up?
I invest in my own production of necessities to sell to others, of things like food, water, energy, shelter and security. Which means I will give you pennies on the dollar for your PMs for the necessities I produce, have in abundance, and which you need to live.
thanks for the heads up...and just out of curiosity....did u get your crystal balls from Walmart???
as for "Which means I will give you pennies on the dollar for your PMs for the necessities I produce, have in abundance, and which you need to live."
thats hilarious...ok, i'll just have to go begging to a more forgiving Baron in your apocolyptic world....
at least u warned me though...
So tell us. Why did gold and silver DROP in Oct 2008 if they are so "valuable"?
They didn't rise until trillions of "free money" was injected through QE by many countries around the world. Gee, notice when QE stopped, the value of PMs DROPPED?
Do you think that after a collapse of a reserve currency, any country will be in a position to duplicate QE?
You're dreaming in technicolor and it's going to be a cruel wakeup call when it goes down. The differnce is I work with facts, you have BELIEFS and FAITH.
"QE stopped"
QE stopped? Janet, is that you?
"Do you think that after a collapse of a reserve currency, any country will be in a position to duplicate QE?"
Can you provide me with a list of all the fiat & debt based curriencies, in history, that have ever survived?
Currencies are not intended to survive. The are simply a medium of exchange.
PMs are simply commodities, and relatively useless ones at that. There is very little that can actually be done with them. There are uses for silver, about 50% of annually mined silver is used industrially, but only 12% of gold. That's pretty useless. So their value is determined by sentiment/desire/greed, and not by necessity.
Which is the definition of a luxury. So when they aren't necessary, and the economy is in the dumps, what's going to keep their price/value up? NADA.
U still here???
Don't you have a barmitzvah to attend? Don't you have a dog to befriend?
Funny how you continue to insult, but you never answered my question as to why gold and silver DROPPED in Oct 2008.
Hey, asshat, try this: in a global currency collapse, ONLY gold and silver will have ANY value.
And, only those people HOLDING them will be able to "buy" anything.
No, they won't have much value in a global currency collapse. They are luxuries with no utility.
Of course you don't believe me, you dun got religion of the glitter, and have been blinded.
"PMs will DROP substantially in value"
Well ~ Thank fucking GOD that the paper fiatscos they're valued in will NEVER lose value or go to ZERO
And how will the sheep "trade" for essentials? What are they going to offer in exchange for say "food" or "fuel"? Sexual favors? That will get old. Those that plan will have seeds, maybe some land for a crop, access to potable water, ammo and tools to use it. Others will simply become victims of one sort or another.
so let me see...
liquidating a worthless piece of paper that has lost 98% of its value for something in limited supply, possesses intrinsic VALUE, and used to be the backing for what is now a NOTE not MONEY, constitutes a loss despite it being an addition to a growing position.....
yeah....i got it now....thanks
Hey, Analpenis - got a few rational pearls of wisdom for you to choke on.
Problems with gold start with the unit cost ratio versus silver.
Almost all gold mined is still in existence.
Paper gold has not been as mercilessly manipulated as silver paper because of the influence of institutional and governmental gold asset holders.
Silver mining has dwindled to incidental recovery as a by product of copper, nickel, and lead mining - pure silver mines were played out for the most part over one hundred plus years ago.
Down turn of economy will not deter the most significant modern day usage of consumer electronics - the smart phone. Silver is the most efficient conductor of electricity on a unit cost basis.
Economic recovery of silver in consumer electronics is not feasible, even in China. Economic recovery of silver used in most other modern day applications of silver is not feasible either.
The ten percenters will never stop wanting new consumer electronics, and they survive down turns to the economy just fine it seems.
Add in the newer industrial uses of silver that also shrug off economic issues out of necessity - medical wound dressings, water purification filters, etc., and you have a continuing demand for a metal whose annual production has been falling for decades.
So, you have an indispensable metal being consumed by industrial use constantly, declining in mining production, and under supply pressure to serve both the industrial and monetary silver markets.
Take away the paper manipulation of 2 - 300 times the available physical silver available in the market, and there's a problem with price discovery for the real deal versus fantasy paper silver that never existed.
Lastly, the uncertainty of a major economic event always moves people to seek out safe haven for their hard earned money. Fiat currency has a history of failure for thousands of years, a near perfect track record of failure.
Silver and gold have a five thousand year history of recognized value in times of uncertainty, more so than any other commodity you can name that is portable, incorruptible, stable, and internationally recognized.
To summarize, with silver spot trading for substantially less than the cost of production, I see no down side to investing in it as a safe haven.
If the whole world burns, silver will be a recognized form of currency far easier to trade with than anything else short of 22 LR ammo.
I would rather dance with the silver devil than take on Wall Street, Goldman Sacks Biters, JP Morgan Chase, banks, politicians, the Fed, the CIA, NSA, DHS, IRS, and all of the other thieves on the loose out there.
So, in conclusion, Analpenis, go fuck yourself with a barbed wire wrapped baseball bat lubed up with flaming napalm, you idiot Yellin child abuser.
nice..
and i give u a ten on the landing...
they will never learn or understand...
just the way the MoneyChangers intended...
But you're still wrong. Only 50% of silver is used industrially, the rest is simply stored as bullion or jewelry. So what you're saying is that a 50% reduction in demand won't have an impact on price/value?
Oh my, you really are a True Believer and worship the glitter gods without question. As a true believer, you would rather die than admit you are wrong. That's what belief is all about, the ability to defiy rational and logical facts.
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” - SocratesHey, Analpenis.
Gold was worth $28.00 an ounce when I was a kid.
Silver was worth whatever was printed on the coin you spent.
Any one think those days are coming back?
A silver dollar bought 4 gallons of gas in 1964 - today based on spot price only, it buys 7 gallons of gas.
The paper dollar buys you about a quart - you tell me which one looks like a safer haven for your net worth.
Any drop in industrial demand is already being covered by folks looking for safe haven from burning paper.
You keep missing the point that fiat is a MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE and not an INVESTMENT.
Yet you are too stoopid to understand the difference.
SILVERGEDDON, Thank you for reconfirming my love for silver, a very concise and informative post and putting yet another asshole in his place.
Nice job.
Holy shit the Pope blew a 50 amper! Better reset that breaker. Must have been a sad day at the coin shop eh "the Holy See"?
Pope, you need to try ebay. No shortage and smaller premiums, plus the thrill of the "hunt," so to speak, in auctions.
Forget the troll. Silver is on sale.
$1 an hour would be a huge raise for parts of the world.
I know that wages for local labour in Liberia on international projects (unionized, so the wage rates are very high) are about 35 cents an hour!!!
Honestly, does anyone give a flying fuck about Liberia other than the US screwed up a few generations ago by not sending all the blacks there?
Standard Disclaimer: Niggers - they come color coded for a reason.
Some countries have scientists with phd's living in huts with dirt floors and make only a few hundred dollars per month. Go for it.
This is one of the saddest, most telling examples of where we are as a society, and more frighteningly, where we are headed.
We are actually debating whether we should be able to work for a $1 an hour?
What next, the right to be homeless?
When discussing issues like this, no what side you're on, we have already lost.
Nobody DESERVES a cent simply because they exist. Not fair? Tough luck.
That wasn't my point.
I'm just saying even having the conversation shows the opportunities that exist for an increasing amount of Americans.
The image of the guy in the story doing this kind of work in his hotel room is beyond sad.
And, it's 2015, people do deserve some base form of existence.
Afterall, intelligence is largely based on inheritance and upbringing, and it is and will always be the last form of discrimination.
What if you had a kid who was mentally challenged?
Should he or she have to live on the street if you can't take of them?
Only Progressives remind you what year it is and expect you to accept that as some sort of argument. History is a two-way street. Most Muslim women covered their faces in 1900, most didn't in 1970, and most do today. America sent men into space from 1961 to 2011 and to the Moon from 1969 to 1972; now we can do neither. We couldn't even build another Cassini or New Horizons because we're out of plutonium-238. America used to win wars, then it contained threats, and now Obama can only lecture the Russians about what *they* ought to do to fight terrorism.
Then again, I can see myself telling my kids, "No, you can't have a hamburger, it's 2025! No one can afford meat anymore and I haven't seen a squirrel in years."
You must have missed the progressive meme. No one need work for less than they think they are worth because we can simply print the money to keep your illusions alive. Minimum wage is such a joke when you consider the REAL minimum wage is the entitlements supplied by government, sourced by debt to be repaid by "the rich" (you and me) or through printing, which again is a tax on you and me. We have 90+ million not working. Does anyone think they are not still eating and living in homes somewhere? These are the people who define minimum wage for us. Getting paid to do absolutely nothing but eat. What employer can compete with that? There are lots of lower paying jobs out there available that can't be filled. A cousin manages grocery stores and has permanent openings he can't fill. People come in and apply (to qualify for bennies I presume) and turn the job down or simply don't show up for work, as their options remain open to the government tit. This constant demand for fairness to be IMPOSED by law, perverts free markets and ultimately creates the distorted and corrupt mess we now have. One where their are no solutions short of complete failure. We are not going to ween people off of free shit, be they bottom feeders or giant corporations. To end the gravy train now would crash everything and regardless of how fucked we may see it, few want something worse (ZH crowd not included) and will capitulate to its stench for the opportunity to make one more score, or simply to survive another day.
I was was told many years ago that for most to succeed one must be willing to do what others will not. Lots and lots of people who have done well in this world started at the bottom. This theme has largely been lost in recent decades as the image most often presented of success is the overnight miracle, genius trader or gifted performer or athlete. Nobody has a clue about incremental growth, about building and investing in one's self to achieve over periods of decades, not weeks or months or even a few years. Decades. A lifetime. Those folks are most often identified as the scrooge, penny pinching tight asses, who are to blame for so many underpaid hard working souls.
Progressives divide the world into two halves financially. They see themselves as either incredibly lucky or smart as they have acquired great wealth over a very short period of time. This leaves their remaining followers as the weak and simple minded sheep in need of a good flocking. They see their opposition, conservatives, as money grubbing, profit obsessed people driven by greed to the point of depriving the weak and simple minded (the progressive base) and as such morally reprehensible. They do realize however that the economy needs the hard working money grubbers to actually produce and get things done, as otherwise people would have to rely purely on entertainment and gambling enterprises for survival, and even if that is all they care about, they still need someone to farm and build and manufacture. So, their brilliant answer is to simply TAX those bad behaviors, just as they tax other SIN based activities. All taxes are SIN taxes in their eyes, and as sinners, we producers are so enthrawled with greed that we will carry unimaginable burdens for the opportunity to get a little more ahead. Like a race dog chasing a fake rabbit, we will run our hearts out to catch something that is only an illusion, leaving us only wanting for more. What they have failed to calculate is that there is a tipping point at which even the dumbest animal will simply say "fuck it", especially when they look around and see even dumber animals grazing in high grass without the thought of labor. Progressives have existed for decades without ever really being challenged on their ideas, as the media always gives them the tool of personal destruction to use against their opponents. They have been lulled into an existence that is even less real than the fiction economic system we struggle against. When we actually reach the point of saying "fuck it" there will no longer be as they like to profess, a debate. The debate will be over.
You didn't read the article, did you?
Actually I did . But, you, clearly didn't comprehend my comment.
That's because your argument, was frankly, incomprehensible.
The only thing missing from it was a "Whambulance" drive-by shedding crocodile tears.
What next, the right to be homeless?
Seriously, people are homeless because they aren't allowed to
build affordable houses.
The police won't let them.
If only farm ville paid out
OT
$4.9M settlement in horrific police murder of Kelly Thomas http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-4-9-million-settlement-in-de...
Scary kneegrows murder pregnant white woman https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/23/ind-police...
There was a media circus in the coverage about the Knoxville horror, about a decade ago.
Oh, wait, no, there was not.
Should you be able to eat what you want?
Should you be able to drink what you want?
Should you be able to believe what you want?
If you answer yes to all those questions, then why would an adult not be able to decide what they are willing to work for?
If you own you, then you have the right to sell your labor for whatever you are ok with.
Yes but she had no teeth.
When Von Mises becomes the advocate of slave labour.
Watch "on the waterfront" old movie and you understand how "wages and work are a contract between the employer and employee, no one else"... As any libertarian clown will tell you.
It becomes the sure sign of what a "free market" is when its not regulated by an outside entity; other than the employer who holds ALL the CARDS!
Foxconn comes to mind today.
Funny how socialist always use Chinese companies as examples of the horrors of capitalism and free markets. Very very funny.
Meanwhile, the one controlling power that our government has retained for many years...and has used it, it trust busting, anti monopoly enforcement. It is only through the monopolizing or collusion between entities that stifles the notion of free trade and the concept of fairness that it brings to mind. And so why DO WE have so much collusion, corruption, monopolization of employment? Huh? Could it be that government is actually encouraging these cabals? Is it possible that they are not enforcing existing law, just as they refuse to enforce our immigration laws, while continually claiming that they don't work, that we need new "comprehensive" trade and immigration laws?
Your answer to the corruption of the marketplace, is to provide more power to the only entity that could actively make it as corrupted as it is. It is a criminal fact that our own government refuses to pass a law to make insider trading illegal for themselves. We see government handing out massive amounts of money to crony corporations, giving them untold advantage over their competitors, yet we think nothing of it. We see states and local municipalities making deals with corporations providing tax exemption and free property in some cases, all that come at a cost to the public and directly as a cost in competition to other local firms. It is corruption on the face of it, and I for one, refuse to support ANY additional powers of regulation and control by government for ANYTHING until they end their own corruption. There is NO BILL that they can pass that I do not take as a personal attack, for I know if it does not cost me now, it will cost me dearly in the future.
And it NEVER for the children
Does the next part of your argument involve the Politburo mandating wage and price controls for all?
Please enlighten us with some more of your Regressive state-mongering, garnished with Soviet sprinkles.
Hey, I'm okay with $1 an hour...
But that's only in Constitutionally-authorized dollars.
About 20 years into a 30 year career I quit my job in Texas and moved back to the beach. My wife was working and we had some savings. After getting settled in I opened the newspaper and started looking for a new job. I went for an interview at a startup. My mindset was kind of weird - I really didn't care all that much. In the end they offered me a job and when it came to negotiating a salary I said - what can you afford. They said 65K - which was a big drop from my former position - but I wasn't doing all that much and the company seemed interesting - so I took it. That was late August. By Christmas I was making 100K. I never asked for a raise - they just appreciated me. By the following June I was making 150K. That was the most any of the 200 or so employees were making, including the CEO, because the owner called a meeting to tell all of us who were making that salary that we were all making the same money. So my point - do what you like, do it well, keep a smile on your face, avoid office politics, help others.
Let me guess you're not in manufacturing?
No - but there was a time when I provided low-level software for computer hardware manufacturers.
How is America's tool & die business doing ?
PVF industry. I was just curious if you part of the real economy or scam economy.
The only businesses that make any money are those dependent on easy credit, or those selling things which cannot easily be verified to work, but offer great promise of eliminating overhead costs...employees.
Software is the snake oil business of modern times. Unverifiable miracle in a bottle, which never lives up to its promise, but there is always an upgrade just around the corner to solve all those non working issues...for a few dollars more. Now we can't even buy it. Accounting software, which has no need to ever change, is constantly upgraded and obsoleted, requiring eternal renewals, each year costing more, becoming more complicated and temperamental, with no one providing service who's first language is English. Most of us are paying for theoretical functionality we will never use.
Does TODAY even REMOTELY resemble twenty or thirty years ago in ANY way, shape or form?
There was a message in my post which has always, and will always, be relevant.
Be a contractor, be in the right place at the right time?
Obviously, we both have not met each other, but I was rather annoyed one day when I was told that I did not have the skills that the employer was seeking, and I might as well have been a guppy in a piranha tank by the way the interviewers were acting.
AND I even told them I was NOT concerned with wages, benefits, or anything, simply wanted the job so I could work my way up in that particular company for I already had over a DECADE of experience IN that field (logistics and purchasing).
So please, tell me again how that worked.
I was a contractor for many years, maybe half the time. Often the client treated me better than their own employees - even running ideas by me to get a feel for how their employees would react. And - a little bit of luck never hurt anybody.
I had some abysmal interviews over the years - phone and in-person. The 'missing skills' thing is just a 'safe' reply. Often over the years I was tasked with being the interviewer. I once worked for an S&P 100 company where a candidate was shuffled around for a day of individual interviews. At the end of the day a meeting was held and the participants were asked to vote - with their thumbs - what they thought of the person.
Your post is spot on. I was hired by an auto parts maker at age 59. This company requires you to temp for a full year, then you must be hired full time or let go. Why did they hire an old fucker like me? I was never late, never absent, never had any confrontations or drama, and worked my ass off. By contrast, the younger temps fucked off, spent hours on smart phones, and had drama and arguments. One temp told a rather nasty racial joke. I took the guy aside and said he should not talk like that in a very PC workplace. He blew me off, saying he did not give a damn. Two weeks later he s gone. Guess he told that joke to the wrong person.
Bottom line, a good attitude and work ethic will not always get you a job, but, it tips the odds in your favor.
If someone got paid $1/hr the Gubbermint will just hand them $14/hr in welfare.
$5 dollar 1/10 oz gold coin = $139.00
$139 divided by 5 hours = $27.80
just sayin ...
Seems that wage price discovery is a dirty word to these $15 per hour ass clown activists.
There are sites to outsource menila work that can be done online. You can get a days work for 10 dollars in India
Their expenses and standard of living are lower
If US had no minimum wage, would we have more ghetto rats?
This is a sweet story, but unconvincing. It's hardly worth anyone's bother to *count* the work being done for a dollar an hour - or less. The money isn't going to make a difference in anyone's life. That's, UNLESS the work is actually worth a lot more money, and then it's the employer not really being fare to workers. Or unless the worker is starving to death because his real work is being farmed out to others for one dollar an hour. So, we have one good, if trivial, scenario and two really bad scenarios. If you do the math, you have the general argument for why a minimum wage is a good thing after all.
I finished culinary school in New York City four days before 9/11. Needless to say, nobody was hiring anybody in the next few weeks. One of my classmates had a contact at a major restaurant in Midtown, and I got an interview at the beginning of November. They were not going to hire me but I told them that I would work for one dollar a day just to get some experience and to avoid losing my skills. After a couple of days, they agreed. I worked my ass off during Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years. At then end of three months, the chef gave my wife and I a dinner (worth $250), and told me that the company was going to hire me permanently in February. I worked for them (paid) for three years after that. The chef never forgot that I would work for nothing just to prove myself and he is a friend today, 14 years later.
Today you are competing on the global labor market. That simply means that in a free market, your standard of living and the global standard of living (where 20% of the population lives on less than $1/day) will need to come to an equilibrium. Have fun with that.
One word in the above title addresses the issue at hand, along with about 99.9% of all other issues that involve (3) parties, where only (2) are necessary...
If people want to insist that there be a minimum wage, then I suggest there should be a maximum wage.
Socalist system. everyone gets paid the same wage....
So, do you understand the difference between a self declared socialist country (like China) and a country that happens to be ruled by a socialist political party that has won elections (like Sweden)? Because people in Sweden do not all earn the same wage....
http://lostinstockholm.com/2012/01/10/average-salaries-in-sweden-by-occu...
$1 hour...if i was a sucker sure...would make the corp happy if I begged to be paid that.
If they paid me the fiat equivalent in gold, silver or bitcoin I'd probably consider it.
I believe 2 consenting adults should be allowed to enter into whatever contract they agree on be it marriage or employment.
Another goddamn version of this article again? Jesus Christ. There aren't any free markets, douches, and therefore "contracts freely entered into" are anything but. Mises Institute is a bunch of Asperger 13 year-olds. They miss the finer points. And social cues to shut the fuck up.
If this is true, it simply means that minimum wages don't protect workers from employers, these laws protect workers not on public assistance from workers who do receive public assistance or other means of sustenance. The "market" is not valid when workers who have independent means can compete for jobs against those who don't have independent means. Get rid of AFDC, TANL, SNAP, EITC and all the other welfare schemes first, then we won't need a minimum wage any more.
Disgusting headline question in a way. It infers that tyranny might be logical and OK in some instances.
Turk in its current form is probably a fad. All the problems there are just waiting for the next generation of AI.
Listen up, I have a rental apartment, some land, an online biz, a very, very cheap place to live and I collect a SS check every month. If I make more than 15K in a year from my labor, I will lose some of that SS check, so, if I want to work for $1 an hour, or less, I will.
Fuck anybody who says I can't.
You da*n right people should be able to work for $1 per hour. Or even for free. For goodness sakes, I worked at a Harley shop once, and these rednecks would come down there and da*n near pay just to be there polishing bikes and stuff. Get the h*ll outta the way and let 'em work!
Allowed to work for $1/hr ? sure. An example is Open source software; it rules! But there is allowed and then there is allowed. I can see rich corporate types all over this as an expansion of the internship model. But a cheapened supply side is only one side of this coin.
Is this a hobby to complement a real job, or does this reduce real earnings? The economy needs us to earn wages, otherwise who is going to buy stuff? Where is the demand in commerce if middle class wages are not earned?
https://hbr.org/2006/12/the-high-cost-of-low-wages
Boring article. I was hoping for more.
Start with Should People Be Allowed To Work For non-fiat currency An Hour?
---
I see a future where the concept of working for $1 an hour becomes a reality only because colleges will go under. Instead of going to school, kids will seek apprenticeships. School, the middle-man is cut out of the equation.
I teach lots of youngsters on the job. I am sure other professions do the same.
I know a lot of quality small contractors that would be happy to hire help at $15 per hour - but that's barely half the cost; government mandated payroll taxes, unemployment, medicare, legal liability and everything else added on is too much of a hassel.
Whether it's $1 or $15 doesn't matter, it's the continuing responsibility an employer takes on to hire someone to do grunt work and learn a trade.
Article isn't as much about work as it's about hobbies and leisure.
All the examples given, from the corporate trainer to cab drivers and teachers, already have their primary jobs (work) which pay their bills.
Of course they can then have some hobbies on the side. Most hobbies cost something, some are free, some may even pay you $1 an hour or more. Big deal. The hobbies still require that primary job to offset the fixed costs of staying alive on First World cost level.
Well, lets see. In 1962, minimum wage was roughly $1.60 in silver certificates. In today's FRNs, that would be ~$22.50. So, sure reestablish pre-'63 USD, and that would work nicely for most peoples. Wouldn't you say? You had to ask. And then I have to give you an answer. Understanding that a genuine answer should be in real vs. monopoly money ..
Just reading the heading and I thought, this has to be a "mises the point compleatly insitute" rant
Should People Have To Work For $1 An Hour?