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17 Seconds That Changed The World - Leaked Letter Exposes Turkey's Hair-Trigger Reality
Needless to say, Moscow and Ankara are at odds over precisely what happened on Tuesday when a Russian Su-24 was shot down near the Syrian border.
The two pilots ejected and attempted to parachute to safety but Turkmen FSA-allied Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen shot at them as they fell before posting a video purporting to show rebel soldiers celebrating over one of the bodies. It only got worse from there when the FSA's 1st Coastal Brigade used a US-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and rescue helicopter.
Clearly, this was a marked escalation and indeed it was the first time a NATO member had engaged a Russian or Soviet warplane in more than 60 years.
The Kremlin was not happy as Vladimir Putin - who was meeting with King Abdullah in Jordan - proceeded to brand Erdogan a “backstabber” and an ISIS supporter. Sergei Lavrov subsequently canceled a planned trip to Turkey.
At issue now, is whether the Russian fighter jet did indeed, as Turkey claims, venture into Turkish airspace or whether the Turks actually engaged Moscow’s warplane in the skies over Syria.
Here's Russia's version of the story, presented via a video released by the Defense Ministry:
And here's Turkey's account:
Finally, here's The New York Times with a compare and constrast visual:
In the wake of an emergency NATO meeting this afternoon, new information has come to light. First, there’s Ankara’s letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the 15 members of the UN Security Council. Here it is:
The highlighted passage reads: “Disregarding these warnings, both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds from 9:24:05 local time."
So, as RT notes, even if we buy Turkey's story (i.e. if we accept that Russia actually did violate Turkish airspace), then it would appear that Ankara has something of an itchy trigger finger. That is, Turkey was apparently willing to risk sparking a wider conflict between NATO and Russia over a 17 second incursion.
But something doesn't sound right.
Journalists: Learn to do basic maths. Look at Turkey's statement to UN: 1.15 miles / 17 seconds x 60 x 60 = 243 miles/hour = 391 km/hour
— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 24, 2015
In other words, as Sputnik put it earlier this evening, "according to those numbers, the Su-24 would have had to be flying at stall speed."
The Su-24's max speed is 1,320 km/hour.
So if we assume the Su-24 was actually going much faster, was 17 seconds more like 5 seconds? Or perhaps even less?
It's important not to forget the context here. Ankara is fiercly anti-Assad and in addition to being generally displeased with Russia's efforts to support the regime, just four days ago, Turkey summoned Russian ambassador Andrey Karlov over the alleged bombing of Turkish villages near the border. "Turkey has asked Russia to 'immediately end its operation,'" AFP reported, adding that "Ankara warned bombing villages populated by the Turkmen minority in Syria could lead to 'serious consequences.'"
Of course Russia wasn't just bombing Turkish civilians for the sheer hell of it. It's likely Moscow was targeting the very same FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who shot and killed the parachuting Russian pilot earlier today.
In short, it looks like Ankara saw an opportunity to shoot down a Russian jet in retaliation for strikes on Turkish rebel fighters who are operating alongside anti-Assad forces. Erdogan is essentially gambling that Russia will not retailiate militarily against Turkey because doing so would open the door for a direct confrontation with NATO.
Time will tell whether that gamble pays off or whether Moscow decides that the next time a Turkish F-16 gets "lost" over Latakia, a little payback is in order.
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If the US had half a brain they would boot Turkey out of NATO and disassociate themselves all together. These stupid pricks are going to start something that they can't finish!
If the US had any brains it would quit NATO.
What benefit would thre be t the USA leaving NATO?
A forelorn hope of a smaller bill: for me.
Those countries pay a lot of money to have America as their bulldog. We don't pay them, they pay us. The media tells you the USA pays but that's untrue. Talke a closer look.
Not all bills are denominated in money.
We're all gonna get killed by these crazies
My thoughts exactly..these assholes are going to kill us all..
They pay us, huh? So we are MAKING money by having bases in over 100 countries in the world? Hell, why not open more, we could pay off the national debt.
Even if that were true, it doesn't make one but of difference. We are not the worlds policemen. Everything that happens in the world isn't our problem. Our founding fathers warned of 'entangling alliances' hundreds of years ago, and preferred peaceful commerce with all, instead. You can't get a much more 'entangling' alliance than NATO. I sure as shit don't want to fight a war with Russia because turkey shot down a Russian plane.
NATO is bad for us because so many countries can start a war for us, and we sure as hell don't need any help in that department. It's the equivalent of a little kid picking a fight with someone bigger because he knows his big brother is nearby and will protect him, except with nuclear weapons. I want no part of it.
Countries USSA has bombed since WWII:
China 1945-46
Korea 1950-53
China 1950-53
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-60
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominican Republic 1965-66
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Lebanon 1982-84
Grenada 1983-84
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-92
Nicaragua 1981-90
Iran 1987-88
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-90
Iraq 1991
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-94
Bosnia 1995
Iran 1998
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia – Serbia 1999
Afghanistan 2001
Libya 2011
So? And asshole? Go lick Puztin's rectum, ummm yummy. You said "bombed." Is that your final answer? Did you really mean supported insurgencies, invaded, and/or bombed or WTF?
Iran 1998? Want to expound? BJ Clinton bombed or invaded Iran?
Indonesia 1958? I Like Ike invaded them or what?
Some of these dates and locations are quite justifiable; Libya 1986.
Take your Soviet/Socialist Internationale/Third World decades old campaign of disinformation and shove it up your birthing unit's asshole.
You're quite angry for a little faggot.
you cant blame him he dont have a girlfriend since he was born
while lickin obamas asshole he advise other people to do similar thing
come on falconfail except of you no one want to lick assholes here
1998 - oh sorry, it was Iraq, as if it's any better
1958 - "In their authoritative book about the CIA entitledThe Invisible Government, Washington correspondents Thomas Ross and David Wise related how the U.S. supplied a right-wing rebel force in Indonesia with arms and a small air force of B-26 bombers in an attempt to overthrow Sukarno." http://www.workers.org/indonesia/chap2.html
I'm sure in your limited Merican worldview, all bombing are justifiable as long as you can keep your standard of living at other people's expense!
Always better to be the bomber than the bombed. Sorry!
Not so long ago I would have responded as you did.
I, however, embarked on finding out what I never learned.
Start here: http://www.historybyzim.com/
Then go to every wacko-liberal website and absorb what they think. Argue with them.
Then go to every wacko-conservative website and absorb what they think. Argue with them.
I suggest reading Atlas Shrugged, the Road to Serfdom, Economics in One Lesson, the Koran, the Bible, and other litergical books on other religions such as Hindu, Sihks and any other that catches your fancy (because if you really do this, you will find it fascinating).
I was disquieted beginning 2004 and couldn't put my finger on why. So I did this sort of personal research from 2004 to about 2009, when I stumbled into Zero Hedge and started lurking. The commenters, at the time, were obviously so far over my head I didn't dare make a sound but just read the comments for over a year. Using the links provided to see what the hell they were talking about.
(I miss Money McBags, the most from that time.)
When you first stumble onto Zero Hedge, it most often, these days, reads like a bunch of idiots posting shit (God knows I'm guilty), but never disrespect any other commenter on Zero Hedge. As a relative newbie you're apt to get your ass handed to you wrapped in a ribbon. Zero Hedge used to use a comment screener. The typical screener would ask something like whats the fifth root of PI? Or the fourth root of 5. No lie.
Newbies, I strongly suggest that you lurk this site, read the comments from those, other than I, that are so far superior to you that you have no clue...and appreciate what you read a long, long time before you even dare make your first comment.
McBags had the best photolinks ever! Miss him too
Zero Hedge used to use a comment screener. The typical screener would ask something like whats the fifth root of PI? Or the fourth root of 5. No lie.
That should return.
“NATO’s first secretary general, Pug Ismay, once said: ‘NATO was formed to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down.’” – Brother Nathanael Kapner
With NATO’s philosophy it won’t be long before the bankers will be deciding who is the enemy within the United States - if they haven’t decided already.
The USA is NATO.... provides over 60% of the funding.
Hastings Lionel “Pug” Ismay as Secretary General of NATO (1952 - 1957) --
On NATO "I am convinced that the present solution is only a partial one, aimed at guarding the heart. It must grow until the whole free world gets under one umbrella."
NATO is the bankers' military arm headed for world government and Russia stands in the way.
NATO = Needs Americans To Operate
Exactly. I've been saying that for years. While we are at it, leave the UN and kick them out of the country too. Fuck the both of them. Good for the government, bad for everyday people.
NATO is to expanded, not contracted.
Balloons are expanding right until they blow up...
NATO NEEDS TO BE DISBANDED
NATO's Rot From Withinthen take your country out of it. the French did it, once
Alas G, we will have to be tossed out. Even if our apathetic constituencies garnered the wherewithall to petition CONgress to get out - the financial/war dictatorship here would not allow this.
The old US Republic required a moral, intellectual populace to run her and make her free and great. At one time much of the world was truly with us. At present we have quite an internal problem that will have to be resolved before we could accomplish what France did.
have a look at the footage from Hollande's visit in Washington, watch his face and Obama's during the press conference. I sometimes do that, without sound, and watch the whole back again to listen to what was said, exactly
Obama was... well, look at it yourself, and make up your own mind
I saw most of it. It was not not nice for me to look at. It looked to me like the two were not very happy with each other, then it seemed like it was abruptly ended. I have not been a fan of DCs decision making matrix for quite a while now. At this point, I am not surprised that our roughshods in DC are agrivating allies.
"If the US had half a brain they would boot Turkey out of NATO and disassociate themselves all together. These stupid pricks are going to start something that they can't finish!"
Turkey would not have shot down the jet without explicit orders from the US to do so. This is the US trying to start WWIII. They are poking the bear like they did in Ukraine.
Obama was clear that he supported Turkey. To correct the issue, the US military needs to arrest Obama for starting a war without Congressional authorization. Then, Nato needs to remove Turkey for provocation. Finally, we can watch a bear carve up a turkey. as a side show during the Macy's parade.
As an aside, since the Russian jets posed no real threat to Turkey, one can substitute "war plane" with "Russian passenger jet". This makes Obama's statement supporting Turkey's "right to protect airspace" completely absurd.
"Today Canada shot down an American Airliner for traveling 1 mile inside its borders, for 5 seconds. The plane crashed into Niagra Falls. President Obama said that Canada has a right to protect its own country, and also stated "I'm not really sure who owns Niagra Falls anyway" "
Niagra Falls?
Slowly I turned.....
Obozo wants Assad gone, Erdogan wants Assad gone => happily ever after . Or not .....
Obama will be long gone before Assad. The jury is still out regarding Erdogan...
The US has a brain and their goal is to overthrow Assad from the back door. Countries like Turkey and Israel are just what the US needs to do the dirty work, so they can say our hands are clean.
Putin starts an Orthodox Crusade against Turkey to re-claim Constantinople. Hey, weirder things have happened.
They'd never be allowed to keep it. Wouldn't it be hilaious though, if they partitioned Turkey and gave Constantinople back to the Greeks?
They are so desperate to start WW3.
You can understand why : our Israeli-Neocons are losing the info war, and 9/11 is going to be blamed on them, along with all of the Treason associated with that throughout the various governments of the world.
Do you notice tnat no one in our entire intelligence apparatus has noticed 9/11 yet? Do you think that is because 9/11 happened as the government claims?
False Flag of some large order is next, it is the way these guys work, and they double down every time they are losing.
what year did the EURO debut?.......from ZH 2010
''Throughout 2004 statements by former administration insiders revealed that the Bush/Cheney administration entered into office with the intention of toppling Saddam Hussein. Indeed, the neoconservative strategy of installing a pro-U.S. government in Baghdad along with multiple U.S. military bases was partly designed to thwart further momentum within OPEC towards a "petroeuro." However, subsequent events show this strategy to be fundamentally flawed, with Iran moving forward towards a petroeuro system for international oil trades, while Russia discusses this option.
Similar to the Iraq war, military operations against Iran relate to the macroeconomics of ‘petrodollar recycling’ and the unpublicized but real challenge to U.S. dollar supremacy from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency.''
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-thought-experiment-iran#comm...
but everybody knows that the EUR is an evil thing, isn't it? I mean... even Russia was contemplating to support a use of some EUR for oil trade, particularly if Iraq and Iran would do some too
This particular incident might have more to do with attempting to overextend the Russians to make it harder for them to deal with what is going on in Ukraine. The power supply to Crimea from Ukraine has been cut and repairs are not being allowed. The puppet in Ukraine now has placed a cargo ban on movement of goods to Crimea.
Russia is stuck dealing with two fronts.
And how many fronts is the US fighting on?
At least for Russia, the Ukraine conflict is right on its border, with all the logistics advantages and local knowledge that brings. None of the many conflicts in which the US is involved are on its borders. So it is pretty clear which country is overextended.
Power cable to Crimea will be ready in 4 weeks. So it was about last minute for the Ukies to pull this stunt.
Our German press calls these bombers ´activists´.
I am waiting for the names given to the guys who will starting bombing in Germany soon. Maybe ´activists´ too? Somehow i don´t think so.
Fuck Turkey. It wanted a war and it will get one. Tourism will be down 90% and more. Look at Turkey's violations of Greek airspace:
In just the first month of 2014 Turkish jets are claimed to have violated Greek airspace1,017 times
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/turkey-greece-cyprus-aegean-air-space-nato.html#ixzz3sPLwBC48 …
Turkey is doing NATO's bidding, this was all pre-arranged in order to make PUtin look bad, if they crossed the line for any reaon no matter how small then they would be shot down. This is all a game being played by fucktards.
And NATO's actions have revealed the Red Shield once again. There are no good guys in this story.
To which line are you referring?
The internationally recognized territorial boundary, or the one the Turkey decided they wanted?
Putin is impotent to do anything, and does not have the fortitude to do so either. Putin will make a show, make accusatons, poster, bitch, may ride a horse with his shirt off, the usual.
He has been caught playing checkers to their chess. And he is getting whipped bad while being bitch slapped for good measure.
Airliner goes down - message is russians are not safe outside of russia and makes Putin look weak to his citizens
NATO enters Syria more directly and takes over the sky in key areas, may put boots on the ground to occupy - If Putin now (due to his delays) resist he will be made to look like he is helping/acting like a terroist and is hendering the fight against terrorism.
Russia's jet gets shot down by NATO country. Russia's abilities must be questioned by allies when he cannot react.
If Putin fires back at Turkey then Turkey could claim an act of war, negate the treaty, and block Russia's ships from the strait. Turkey is then backed by NATO in this.
Better weapons continue to be given to ISIS. Putin's bases may be hit with rockets etc in the future. Maybe one of his ships are hit with a barrage of missiles/rockets.
Putin will pay dearly for not taking control with a no-fly zone at the same time he started the fight. That is unless he goes all in now or he negotiates an agreement where he gets a naval bases and gives up the rest of Syria. (Of course the agreement would be violated by NATO in future years)
You would love to bait him into something wouldn't you red shield apologist..
What a missplaced rant. NATO just made the the 'No Fly Zone' active and NATO is now not invited. No more airdrops, leaflet drop with what ever they where dropping besides that. If NATO aircraft go into Syria, well, they will be staying one way or another. Another 'Paris Peace talk' situation and a bunch of future McCains if they dare. As for those Turkmen, they now can all prepare their explosive strap-ons, because they made their legal position very clear. The American rules allow for 'hot chase' across borders. Go figure, you can't cure stupid.
Just what is the Putn fan club talking about? NATO made a no fly zone and will exclude NATO? Have a link to that or some background?
"If NATO aircraft go into Syria, well, they will be staying" -- just what are you people talking about? Did NATO establish a no fly zone and is threatening to shoot down their own planes.
There has been no announcement of a no-fly zone by NATO (or Russia).
However, Turkey and some in NATO do want a no fly zone in northern Syria. A place where ISIS can use as a safe base and cannot be bombed. Are you trying to say Turkey has made northern Syria a no-fly zone (which is what they want to do)?
And you think Russia will respect a NATO established No-Fly zone ??? Seriously?? You must be delusional.
NATO has ZERO authority to do so and as a matter of fact is violating Syrian airspace every time one of its planes enter Syria.
The only reason the Syria does not target them is because they know they have no chance of winning against NATO.
You can actually think of these violations as a provocation. NATO would love to get one of its planes to be attacked by Syria. The would use it as an excuse to go full force directly against the Assad government and drop the ISIS proxy game.
They went after Khadafi even though he did not attack their jets. They were simply not patient enough to wait for their proxy army to do its thing. That was taking too long so they started to bomb Libyan army directly. Ironically the US did not do much as the Europeans did most of the bombing.
Your wet dreams doesn't reflect reality. Go Dream On
A NATO no fly zone above Syria will be an act of war. Syria not a NATO member, has invited Russia in to help.
Russia is already beginning to implement a no fly zone. The Moskva is only the start, expect it to extend. Expect any non Syrian army groups in northern Syria to be obliterated.
May I refer you?
Fuck turkey and their mussy camel too.
The Hexagram's uncharacteristic and stone silence throughout all this chaos is quite deafening.
Lib Menace-
Israel has always maintained a no comment policy even after their own operations in the region. Get a grip, get some coffee, and pay closer attention before you taste your shoes again.
Will that sliver along the Med be enough to keep yours from getting wet? Looking to gather up more? That's right, they never comment.
I tend to believe that a lot of the shit we are told will change the world is overblown. This may be an exception. Put in simple terms, NATO just downed a Russian jet, and American backed "rebel forces" killed the pilot(s). And our current leadership is still neo-cons with an itchy trigger finger.
When a (heavily indebted) government fails, its bonds (ability to tax/enforce) fail, and debt is expunged. In most monetary systems (including ours) this is very deflationary. The victor can impose whatever (by force - victory being implied by capitulation). In all this, economic reality can't be denied. Thus the pain, suffering, and unwillingness of survivors to war unless they are victors.
This is a major driver of wars in history. Right now, the world is run by a bunch of meth heads that owe A LOT of money and they are looking to park some bodies in (former) bar ditches to avoid the tab. This is going to be very deflationary - unless one is a victor.
Same as it has always been, except this time the game is sooooo freaking huge due to cheap energy inputs that culling might be the game this go around ... to stretch things out a bit.
Regards,
Cooter
Outstanding post CC
"culling might be the game this go around"
there's no 'MIGHT' about it, it's a certainty.
LTER- not just our current "leadership" either. Look at the cast of assholes looking to take over next. More of the same, not that there was ever a chance it would happen any other way.
Obama's Double Speak regarding Turkey's right to defend its airspace vis-a-vis that of Syria's was more disgustingly intellectually dishonest than anything George W Bush said while holding the office, that's REALLY saying something.
Based on all assessments turkey was trigger happy. You'd think this would make them allies .
Russia -as usual of late- will disappoint USIS by meting out a response which will be designed to surprise in its timing and effectiveness.
These greasy Turk goat fuckers were shouting ALLAH SNACKBAR! during the soccer game moment of silence for 130 French victims.
These cunts are in NATO why?
Because they do the NWO's bidding
Extremely relevant post.
Thousands of non-radical muslims cheer on to support the radicals???? We're really just talking a few rotten eggs??? How can this fucking shit go unoticed??? WTF man. There is a large number of these fuckers that support this radical shit. And those fuckers are in the NATO? Idolate them, 20 foot fences, no more letting these fucks in, subsidize domestic oil to choke these fuckers, The End.
I don't wanna Idolate them, fuck if I'll bow to them either.
Because they have a large, powerful army, control Putin's only access to the Mediterranean base he is fighting to keep from closure, provide an excellent listening post on the borders of Putin's empire, and can generally be relied upon to not change sides when it comes to Russia-- whom they have hated and fought for centuries. Their geographical and military value to NATO is enormous.
Putin's only access or everyone's acess to Med sea ? The strait can't be closed intentionally . Listening post ? How exactly. Turks or Ottomans got their asses handed to them by Russians so no doubt bunch of loosers gagging up and comitting warcrimes on other countries because they know no one will retaliate against them. Geographical value of Turkey is enormous to NATO
Because NATO cunts are siding with Sunni Cunts. And Erdogan is one of them...
The Russian plane was hit over Syria. That is an act of war.
Amen! What the fuck is wrong with our journalists? No one bothers to mention this fact? WTF is going on?
Msm does not have Journalists, they have story tellers that tell the story that they are told to tell.
And shooting a distressed pilot in as he descends via parachute is a War Crime.
But so is bombing multiple, known hospitals.
We should be getting used to being the world's War Criminal Nation by now.
When the world brings it's justifiable war onto our shores there will be hell to pay.
And yes, our citizens are pretty much locked and loaded, hiding behind every blade of grass...just as ever.
That's how the great culling goes. And it will be on all sides.
No Country for Old Men (2007)
Exchange between Tommy Lee Jones & Kelly MacDonald:
Moss: "Sheriff, was that a true story..."
Bell: "...a true story? I couldn't swear to every detail but it's certainly true that it is a story."
There are no journalists. There are only propagandists. I learned that during the Scottish Independence referendum.
EU just approved $3 billion aid to Turkey for the refugees. Pretty sure downing a Russian Jet was in the package deal happy meal!
You could well be correct ... and note reports of the flow of refugees suddenly almost ceasing.
Certainly deals have been done and one does not have to be paranoid to assume the worst, considering wannabe Caliph Erdogan and the Empire of Chaos thriving on chaos in the quest for "full spectrum dominance", per the PNAC.
I trust Putin is wise enough to strike his enemy where it hurts most- which is not on the battlefield fighting proxy puppets like ISIS, Turkey, Saud or Israel.
Light those oil tankers up, Vlad!
Do it for freedom.
It takes some serious balls for Turkey to even complain about border violations while they're over in Syria dropping bombs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-fIn2QZgg
Vlad is lighting them up, Obozo is sending leaflets. Impeach Obozo for not protecting us from these fucks ...
Yes if the middle east oil suddenly dissapeared, what would the mean for MENA?
And for Russia? and for the US?
Maybe that is the answer to end the war.
All I know is that the MENA has been a place of war as long as I can remember.
Wonderful tweet from Wikileaks to expose further the complete absurdity of the Official UN position!
Turkey clearly has the backing of the West in this incident, which means that a repeat incident is likely.
The West is once again looking to invite incident in their quest to gain a legit causus belli, and start a real war.
"Never let a crisis go to waste"
"When we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality...we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too."
That last quote by one of Bush and Cheney's neocon underlings really exposes the deep state domestic playbook.
And so I wonder why they just dropped the video of the kid getting gunned down in Chicago- the Incident happened a year ago.
Can the state keep up with the stories it is spinning?
The same MSM not covering the truth in Syria and re:ISIS is the same one covering the racial issues in this country.
I truly believe they would rather have the public be bogged down over (idiotic and clearly outdated) racial issues than to focus on the hegemonic, imperial, terrorism that is our foreign policy.
Well, turns out it's just Turkey's letter to the security council and not the official position of the UN. My bad...Not that the US or anyone else in Western fold has objected to it yet.
I would say turkey crossed the line, likely due to Russia blowing up its allies n Syria. Either way the justification for the technical reasons for a shoot down really are weak.
I am not sure what takes place from here but turkey has certainly flopped its dick out on the table. If it doesn't get cut off it will in the least be circumcised - probably by NATO before Russia.
Before WWI began, there were Triple Alliance and Triple Ententes between various nations for mutual defense.
I am so glad that we are SO much more wise and intelligent now, not to repeat those same mistakes.....
What was that NATO Article 5 for again?
Putin needs to restore our confidence as with the information JO has posted lately, Turkey is DAESH and this support goes back 3+ years and yet Russia and Turkey have been sitting around the table discussing Turk Stream.
If JO knows this then i have to believe Putin does too! No disrespect to you intended JO.
speechless.
as posted yesterday, fighter jocks flying around the same airspace without coordinating targets or flight paths is a recipe for disaster and an escalation beyond terrorism that cannot be controlled by air strikes on vague and semi-visible targets of oil tankers (other humn shield hospitals/schools) in Iraq, Syria and Turkey.
An escalation of hostilities between first and second world countries simply overlays another type of conflict on top of the terrorist/freedom fighter level.
each of France, the US, Turkey, (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan and Israel0) and Russia need to stop escalating this highly flammable situation before it's too late.
Turkey/Thanksgiving has a jarring resonance and smacks of a trigger that will go down in the history books as the the start of an escalation for another global conflict from an assasination of a world leader (akin to the shooting of arch duke ferdinand in June 1914).
Don't forget to baste your Turkey while it cooks, and your relatives get smashed.
Hopefully Russia will cutoff Turkey's gas and the resulting hardship will bring about Erdogan's demise
Even a moron knows this is Washington telling Turkey to eat turkey. Washington/NATO is poking the bear and the same with China on those Chinese built islands. China better muscle up because Russian and China will need each other on a war front.
America is being set-up for a major false flag event as large as 9/11 and perhaps even larger in the geographic impact. Chicago will be a target; too much criminal data to destroy and the city is in deep financial trouble and the COMEX is there as well and there are now investigations into the COMEX; so time to go for the kill and not let a good crisis go to waste.
Obama looks exactly like the coward that he is; what an embarrassment to mankind.
Oh? And what would you do as president exactly?
Give Vlad a call and tell him that we need to go after the real enemy.
Then get a group of Spec Ops guys I could trust and send hit squads to kill Soros, Buffet, Blankfein, Dimon, Yellen, Bernanke, and the rest of the Fed heads. The next step would be to send a few bombers to turn the Cayman Islands into a smoking pile of rubble.
After that, send real auditors to most of the fortune 500 to expose the fact that all of them are insolvent. Simply shut Facebook down for SEC violations and tell Zuckerberg to suck my dick.
Then declare ten midwest states welfare free zones and let Texas secede. Let Bernie Sanders become king of Vermont and tell that fucked up socialist state that they are on their own. If Socialism is so great, then prove it works without being able to suck off everyone else.
That would be a good start.
+10 adr
I'm writing in ADR on my 2016 ballot.
Nice little fantasy. Now let's wake the fuck up.
CIA and NSA run things with the bankers financing. A president who issues those orders has a heart attack by end of day.
I just stood up and cheered.
Yes but the real enemy is the US.gov...
They have done nothing to cause peace and stability in the world or even their own country.
The first step to conquering a problem is admitting that there is one in the first place.
There is no real leadership in the US. only hedgemony at whatever the cost.
"Yes but the real enemy is the US.gov..."
if we could only identify just WHO IS the US.gov. It sure ain't congress.
Squid
"Yes but the real enemy is the US.gov..."
if we could only identify just WHO IS the US.gov. It sure ain't congress.
Squid
Airdrop 10,000 Spetnatz on Wall Street!
I want the movie rights!
Chicago will be a target; (with good reasons)
A gem in an otherwise distasteful screed.
Chicago - now if some terror organization wants Death and Chaos, just turn off the grid. In winter. Same goes for the entire Midwest and Northeast during late Dec. Jan. Feb - ninety days of absolute killer days; without warmth, people die. Freeze. Think millions of frozen corpse. Milwaukee, Minneapolis,
Time to do something to protect the electric grid in the frozen parts of the Nation. (aka HomeLand - need to get rid of that fugly nazi term)
for those unfamiliar with the US Electric grid National Grid Image
In a country seemingly obsessed with security, the national grid and the attached nuclear power plants make no sense.
The purpose of actions on both sides is to be in the best position possible when a real war actually starts. No side doubts there will be a war, it's just that neither side is in a position to win or lose.
The actual war will begin when one side determines it can win. History shows us under these circumstances the side that considers it is capable of winning and thus starts, is usually wrong.
I suspect the global positioning will happen for years to come. A war is still some time away.
that's your guess
but the reality is, no one really knows what the breaking point is, not even the instigators.
Obama is punking Putin
Looks like we all might pay
Not a guess. Wars are carefully planned.
The breaking point is already known.
These governments and what is playing out was panned a very long time ago.
This is like watching TV. The finale has already been written but you as a consumer ar gripped by the weekly plays.
The USA wins the battle. But the cost will be extreme. Very extreme.
There will be two sides to the world in years to come with separate economies and methods.
This will take place after Africa has risen to a point it is worth having as the last continent to be risen.
We're still 70 years away.
So basically I should tell my kids not to have kids cuz the future is gonna be a jackbooted nightmare dystopia. Great. Got it. Thanks.
All war plans go to hell as soon as the first real shots are fired between men in machines on the ground
couple of airplanes don't qualify just yet. A few more ...
Got a few months of food from the summer harvest tucked away - bigger wood pile may be in order.
These "leaders" are psychopaths with invisible handed elite lizards pushing and pulling. I doubt they could wait that long.
Oh dear.....
"Not a guess. Wars are carefully planned."
Like Barbarosa, Napoleon's russian campain, etc....right?
"The breaking point is already known."
of course it is.
"These governments and what is playing out was panned a very long time ago."
Ok, enough.
mate, you watch too much James Bond and Jason Bourne stuff. You do realize those are just movies....don't you?
Squid
Everybody has a plan.
Until they get punched in the face.
Putin will not be so stupid as to fall into this trap. What he will do is bomb the shit out of any group in Syria that are descendants of Turks and to support the Kurds just to annoy the shit out of Erdogan. He will squeeze oil supply to Turkey and no Russian will go on holiday to Turkey from now on. But he will shoot down any Turkish fighter jet that poses a threat to his planes.
Wrong. Fail. Buzzer sounds -- try again.
Putin's strategic goal is to save Assad and get rid of the rebels/ISIS opposing him. This is already largely achieved, simply by adding their air support to Syria east and Damascus region. Iranian and Hezbollah troops with air cover can do the mopping up with little problem.
Syria west can probably never be won and is unimportant. There are too many sparsely populated areas and leaky borders. Putin is too smart to let this take precedent over the important goals.
If he falls for the bait, he will be dragged into another Iraq/Afghanistan-type quagmire. Not even the Kenyan nigger is that dumb.
the ussa wants to make australia a nuclear power by 2020. they are within the rights of the Nuclear-NPT agreement signed 1968. they collaborated with britain, thus this makes them eligible according to the USSofA and the other powers with nukes
the ussa wants japan to become a nuclear power in 2017-18, which is doable for japan. very doable.
the ussa would like for south korea to become a nuclear power but that would be a stretch,... but as we see in the recurring scenes of ussa bellicose events in the chinese straights-- the ussa taunting or teasing? china in the south chinese seas, is but a turket-shoot in the making.
so what's this got to do with the article? its all about ganging up on russia while china and pakistan make hay in afghanistan with india languishing in the 'sub-continent of ill-contempt', awash with all the 'beggard-thy-neighbors' EM's, awaiting their tenure-decade sabbatical of yet another predictable financial meltdown redux as china goes into a semi-depression'd?state of Smog'ish hyper-ventillation.
US destroyer “Donald Cook” example and your trust which system?
so turkey wanted to shoot down the russian jet regardless of whether there was an air space violatiion or not. why? for nato? who is france supporting? nato or putin. is merkel sending troops?
the jet came down in sryian territory. well within a kilometer of the turkish border.
in fact it was the turkish f-15? that was in syrian airspace
Good point. No one is talking about those details. WTF.....
Is Putin going to do a presidential pardon for Turkey this Thanksgiving? The fate of the world hangs on it.
Polk a Bear?
Change of Mind
first of all, there are no civillian "Turkmen minority in Syria" anymore, they're in Germany or Sweden now, or crawling through Croatia to get there. they are among the refugees that flood Europe. after 3 years of this war now it may only be Turkish mercenaries that still stay there.
secondly, apparently these "moderate extremists" commited "moderate war crime" shooting prisoners of war to show their future "moderate understanding" of international law, human rights and "moderate love" for civilized values.
thirdly, these 17 seconds will be recognized by future historians as the nail in Turkish coffin. Turkey is a doomed artificial state forcibly glueing together two completely different people that can't get along each other, it has suffered a series of military coups, one recently suppressed by Erdogan (warned by CIA/Mossad in last minute). what "grandmaster Putin" could do to weaken Turkey is start arming Iraqi Kurds. that would win him land army willing to hunt down ISIS high profile targets he can't reach with bombers. and some of the aid would end up in Turkish Kurds' hands shifting balance in Erdogan's war on Kurds against Ankara.
like Yugoslavia?
Great Analysis
“backstabber”
This sounds like a double criss-cross.
On the other hand, the Su-24 flight path looks like a Nike marketing gimmick.
Can you imagine WW2 and Vietnam with smartphones, instant video feed and internet. This is going to be some serious Holiday enterainment.
Yeah, the worst engagement between NATO and former Warsaw Pact leader Russia who still owns a shitload of Nukes is gonna be great. At least I get to be nuked next to the folks post Turkey dinner.
Winter is the worse season to start a war with Russia.
Especially if you get over half your gas from Russia.
Not if you're Russian.
<wink>
Squid
Turkey is trying to spark-up The Ottoman Empire!
nah they are more something of submitting their donkey empire to the zio's nato master
snackbar followers like to submit they are brave slaves by nature
No France = No EU
No EU = No NATO
The Presidential Elections for France are 18 months away 5/2017.
The False Flag/ Or Not of Paris is NATO's helping hand for Hollande as a Le Pen Victory = No NATO
Yeah, sure fuck tard. Just like Tspiras elected meant no more EU/Nato.
Just like the kenyan nigger meant hope and change.
Politicians never lie.
“Disregarding these warnings, both planes, at an altitude of 19,000 feet, violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds from 9:24:05 local time."
So? You just attack the aircraft of a nuclear superpower because you claim they strayed a few seconds?
Sure, makes sense. To a lunatic.
So? You just attack the aircraft of a nuclear superpower because you claim they strayed a few seconds?
THAT is the ONLY to be asked.
I think Turkey is in for a very cold winter.
Someone wiser, help me out there.....
warned 10 times during a period of 5 minutes.....and, assuming the allegation is true that the plane was in the Turkey for 17 seconds....( could be as few as 2 seconds, if su-24 was at the speed of 1,000 kmph)...
How could you make a 10 warnings in 5 minutes in a time span of 17 seconds?
Liberals would call it feelings. The F16 pilots felt and self-identified with the warning they may or may not have sent and it was equal to about 10 warnings.
You count to ten. Fast.
Hot Tub Time Machine!
Of course, if we're all fighting ISIS, a de minimis overflight of another country's territory for 2 miles for 5 seconds is trivia. Best case Turkey was lying in wait to get a chance to shoot down some Russians.