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Russia Declares Warplane Downing A "Hostile Act" But Will It Cut Turkish Gas Supplies?
Some have suggested Vladmir Putin's first retaliation for the Turkish shooting down of a Russian fighter jet would be to cut off gas supplies (which represent 57% of Turkey's supply). With Russia Defense Minister stating that the "downing of the Russian warplane is a 'hostile act'," adding that the defense ministry is "devising a set of measures to respond to the incident," it seems taking the 'nuclear option' of cutting off 20% of Erdogan's entire energy supply would be a strong first non-lethal non-World-War-3-starting step.
- *RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY: DOWNING OF WARPLANE HOSTILE ACT: IFX
- *RUSSIA TO CONTINUE FIGHTING TERRORISTS IN SYRIA: IFX
And then...
- RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY DEVISING SET OF MEASURES TO RESPOND TO INCIDENTS SIMILAR TO TURKISH AIR FORCE'S ATTACK ON RUSSIAN SU-24
So, despite earlier saying that "there will be no disruption," given the statements above, (and all of Erdogan's bluster on finding alternate sources) Russia may well decide to take the 'nuclear option' and cut off Turkey's gas supplies as a first non-military reaction.
Turkey gets 57% of its gas from Russia (and Turkey is Russia second biggest non-domestic market for gas). Turkey's alternative supply routes include Iran, which of course just signed a $5 bn trade deal with Russia and is unlikely to come to Turkey's aid. As we ominously predicted recently, although Moscow and Ankara have thus far kept it civil in order to preserve and expand trade, it now looks as though each country may be willing to Plaxico themselves all because they disagree over what the fate of Bashar al-Assad should be... It appears we have moved on from 'civil'.
As we detailed previously, Turkey-Russia energy relations are tense at best
In June, we noted that Russia had signed an MOU with Shell, E.On and OMV to double the capacity of the Nord Stream pipeline, the shortest route from Russian gas fields to Europe.
Here is a helpful visual:
What you’ll note from the above is that the Nord Stream allows Gazprom to dodge Ukraine, which is desirable for obvious reasons.
Of course that’s not good for the Eastern European countries (like Ukraine) who derive revenue from the flow of gas. Late last month, Slovak PM Robert Fico had the following to say about the Nord Stream project:
“They are making idiots of us. You can’t talk for months about how to stabilize the situation and then take a decision that puts Ukraine and Slovakia into an unenviable situation.”
To which we said the following:
When it comes to making grand public declarations about “stabilizing” unstable geopolitical situations and then turning around and doing something completely destabilizing, the West (and especially the US) are without equal, as evidenced by all manner of historical precedent including Washington’s efforts to help sack Viktor Yanukovych whose ouster precipitated the conflict in Ukraine in the first place. And make no mistake, to the extent there’s energy and money involved, that’s all the more true which is why it isn’t at all surprising that Western Europe would facilitate a deal that lets Gazprom bypass a war zone if it means getting natural gas to countries that “matter” in a more efficient way.
In an interesting, if predictable twist, Western Europe may need to step up its cooperation with Gazprom even further going forward because now, the conflict in Syria has strained the energy relationship between Moscow and Ankara. Specifically, several purported Russian violations of Turkey’s airspace have made President Erdogan "irate" and more generally, The Kremlin’s support for the Assad regime has angered Turkey, which has long supported and worked to facilitate his ouster. Here’s a bit of color from FT:
Last year, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, then Turkey’s prime minister, was one of the only western statesmen to attend the opening ceremony of the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. On the sidelines he met President Vladimir Putin and hailed the strong ties that bound Russia and Turkey.
Such warmth seems a distant memory today.
The two men are at loggerheads over Syria, and their spat threatens an important energy relationship: Turkey is the second-largest consumer of Russian natural gas. A new pipeline across the Black Sea was supposed to cement the partnership. Its future is now murky.
Last week, an irate Mr Erdogan, now Turkey’s president and still the country’s unquestioned leader, warned that, because of its military intervention in Syria, Russia risked forfeiting a $20bn contract to build a nuclear power plant on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast. Ankara could also source its gas from elsewhere, he warned.
But that's where things get tricky because as Bloomberg noted on Monday, "Russian gas keeps the lights on in Turkey":
Nearly 75 percent of Turkey's energy use is derived from outside sources, with Russia alone accounting for one-fifth of Turkey's energy consumption, more than any other. Russia's Rosatom is scheduled to start building Turkey's first nuclear plant next year and the two countries are also partners on a major new natural gas pipeline, known as TurkStream, which will eventually allow Russia to send its natural gas into the heart of Europe via the Turkish-Greek border rather than through embattled Ukraine. Gazprom, the world's largest natural gas producer and a TurkStream signatory, recently announced that the project would be delayed and capacity cut. Turkey represents Gazprom's second largest market after Germany.
Read the last bolded passage there and then, referring back to the map shown above, follow the Nord Stream right into ... Germany. Once again, here's Bloomberg:
Putin feels able to change tack on Turkey, the second-largest customer for Russian gas, because in September he agreed to expand the Nord Stream pipeline that links Russia directly with Germany.
“Putin is betting on Nord Stream, but that bet is risky," Sijbren de Jong, energy security analyst at the Hague Centre for Strategic Studies, said by e-mail. "Can Gazprom really afford to annoy Turkey and forgo gas revenues? Hardly."
Europe receives about a third of its gas from Russia with a third of that volume flowing through Ukrainian pipelines. Gazprom aims to end or at least cut its gas transit through the former Soviet republic after the current transit contract expires in 2019.
Putin said last year that the new Turkey route would help Russia to meet this goal. After talks on the link stalled over the summer, Gazprom said that the Baltic Sea link directly to Germany known as Nord Stream-2 was a priority.
Putin’s bet on Nord Stream-2 is risky as the project may face opposition in the EU, De Jong said. EU Energy Commissioner Miguel Arias Canete said last week the link risked concentrating 80 percent of the bloc’s Russian gas imports on one route while eastern European nations have also warned of the risk of circumventing Ukraine.
Gazprom said Tuesday that key markets for Nord Stream-2 are boosting gas purchases from Russia, with total European exports in early October gaining almost 36 percent from last year’s level.
There are two takeaways here. First, all of this underscores the degree to which geopolitics and energy are inextricably bound up and that serves to strengthen the thesis that part of what triggered the conflict in Syria were energy disputes between the two regional axes of power. Although Moscow and Ankara have thus far kept it civil in order to preserve and expand trade, it now looks as though each country may be willing to Plaxico themselves all because they disagree over what the fate of Bashar al-Assad should be.
Second, Turkey needs to be careful here. If Erdogan effectively kills the Turkish Stream because Russia is bombing anti-regime forces in Syria, then Ankara had better hope Moscow and Tehran don't succeed in restoring Assad, because then, there'd be no hope for the Qatar line either.
And as for Erdogan's contention that because Turkey can get gas from sources other than Russia, Moscow should "think well," the following pie chart suggests that in the current geopolitcal environment, it is actually Ankara that should think twice before adopting too brazen a position...
* * *
But, of course, this is not a 'simple' decision since Turkey has become a notably important market for Russia... and with The Saudis pressing for market share in Europe's crude market, losinmg another such major source of national revenue will not be such a slam dunk.
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ww3 will not disrupt trade. the usa could be in a full blown shooting war with china and still be buying their shit at the same time.
Russia has to be careful with any economic response, with its supply line to Syria running through the Bosporus.
It cannot afford that to be shut (it would be against International Law to do that but I can see the Turks ignoring such niceties).
Did the U.S. military just tell Putin "Happy Hunting"?
WARREN SAYS RUSSIAN JET SHOOTDOWN A TURKEY-RUSSIA ISSUE
My interpretation of this statement is that Turkey, due to its own stupidity and duel complicity, is on its own and any retaliation by Russia will not be covered under NATO Article 5. Article 5 states that " an attack on one Ally shall be considered an attack on all Allies."
Vlad just received the implicit go-ahead (as if he needed permission) to implement a rebuttal in the form of a "Turkey shoot" on those responsible.
Just do what they did with Ukraine--Demand payment up front. If they fuck up again, cut the gas and keep the money.
Fuck that. Just cut their supplies.
This isn't a passive-aggressive spat with your neighbor.
This is a dispute between to major world powers. Turkey has over half a million soldiers. The way these things are solved is by a conpensatory payment. Anything else causes further losses for both sides. Russia cannot do anything unilaterally to increase its profit.
The genetic weapons will soon be unleashed. Race specific ebola flu.
Putin needs to secure the border with Turkey and wait for the USA meltdown. China needs to go full bankrupt and liquidate all bankrupt assets. Russia to do the same. Now.
If the US continues the bubble economy till the affirmative action president is out of office this will give their economies a much needed head start on preparing for WWIII. One full year of US economic bull shit ahead. Use the time wisely.
The first country to liquidate and get its financial house in order will be the one most likely to emerge victorious.
This is a golden opportunity for Russia and China if they understand how to get an advantage in the next two years. Liquidate the shit and start rebuilding.
The genetic weapons will soon be unleashed. Race specific ebola flu.
Probably gender specific too, like white AND male
But are they specified as species specific ?
check this comment on ZH
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-22/brussels-lockdown-day-2-police-...
and these links for details - you may be surprised:
http://winteractionables.com/?p=15750
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/proof-ebola-expert-killed-on-mh17-kenema-bioweapons-lab-created-new-ebola-strain/
Russia will not cut off direct gas supply to Asian Turkey via Blue Stream.
Instead Russia will terminate gas exports via Ukraine. This has the effect of cutting off Russian gas supplies to European Turkey (via Bulgaria).
For reason of Force Majeure - secure access to maintain pipelines within Ukraine is no longer possible due to recent events with electricity in Kherson. Ukraine remember says it no longer needs to buy Russian gas, it can get gas from europe. And pigs fly.
Turkey might have 500,000 million soldiers but they are in Turkey and would be wiped out before getting anywhere close to Russia.
Nothing will happen. Stock market will rise. The Federal Reserve will have an excuse not to raise rates nexr month. This is all transitory. Relax people.
Soul Glow
my words too, though little guys in turkey might be just as pissed as russians for what their edogan psychos in the goverment have done
Turks aren't exactly that bright. They are probably having visions of another Ottoman Empire.
It's time to push them out of Europe and take back Constantinople.
The Pentagram will probably keep supplying Turkey with arms, sit back and watch both sides bleed out.
Not ´up front´ but second front. Supply the Kurds.
Saddam Hussein thought Bush gave him the implicit go-ahead to invade Kuwait...of course Putin should take any statement from D.C. with a train of salt.
Saddam was not a leader of a nuclear nation armed with intercontinental ballistic missiles.
@AlaricBalth Re: "Did the U.S. military just tell Putin "Happy Hunting"?"
I'd say it could be a trap in the making. Incirlik is one of the largest US airforce bases in the world. Even giving explicit "permission" to attack usually ended up in tears for the attacker when the MSM finished demonizing them - remember the story about Saddam asking the US ambassador permission to invade Kuwait. Putin is so widely demonized already, it wouldn't take much.
"In a now famous interview with the Iraqi leader, U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie told Saddam, ‘[W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.’ The U.S. State Department had earlier told Saddam that Washington had ‘no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait.’ The United States may not have intended to give Iraq a green light, but that is effectively what it did."
Add this to the Kagan/Nuland zionazis urging their lot to send 50,000 troops to Syria and it looks suspiciously like a nice prelude to WWIII.
No, to me it looks like a trap. There won’t be any military responses. There will be financial responses. Cutting gas supply, raising price. Urging tourists not to go to a “hostile country”. Cutting down trade. Of course it is going to lead to tensions in Turkey as businesses will begin to feel pinch. We shall see. I know one thing for sure, Putin will never give them a present like this.
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I did not get that....can you say it again?
"the usa could be in a full blown shooting war with china and still be buying their shit at the same time."
Nailed it! Patriotism is only for the chumps who go and get their balls blown off for their corporatist masters. The corporatists laugh at patriotism, they laugh at nations, and they laugh at humanity. Their only God is money, their only interest is Mammon, their only passion is plunder. Anyone who wears the uniform of the corporatists pirates should be deeply ashamed of themselves, at the very least they should completely understand that they are nothing more than very poorly paid mercenaries.
But don't forget they sponsor touchy feely liberalism all the while....sickos
Stop referring to it as WW3. It's not going to happen. It's always been a pissing contest and it will stay that way.
Definitely Buzz. It is the only way to sanely prolong a war.
easily the wisest and brightest comment in this thread so far
folks really don't get the way the world works (has always worked)
r
https://enronnext101.wordpress.com/
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2015/11/us-gives-their-prox...
Get them Vlad. Erdogan needs a quick lesson on war crimes.
Vlad's response will FREEZE their ASSets this Winter.
Ergodan better round up whoever shot the plane down and hand them over fast before he finds a horse head in his bed.
Who run Barter Town???
It wasn't Aunty.
It was Master Blaster.
Better to ask a few billion in compensation and a trial of the Turkish pilots who shot down the Russian plane inside Syrian territory at the Hague
It is going to be a cold Turkish winter I'm afraid.
So this thanksgiving turkey will be roasted and will be left in the cold.
Obama and Democrat minions can just fly over there and blow gass out of their asses.
How is all that Hope & Change working out for you fools.
How would the SA/Qatar to Europe pipeline look then? Interesting.
WWIII goes hot.
If I was Putin, I'd pipe the assholes nitrogen, and bill them for it anyway.
How much could you "cut" NG with an inert gas and still have it light?
you spoiled the fun
I'm sure Janet would like a big war or terror attack as a NIRP and more outright QE justification.
Both side of any conflict are always funded by both sides. The reset is PsyOp, False Marratives & Political Therater
Be especially wary of the False Marratives.
Those little marrative buggers will get you every time. Sly little bastards they are...
And Turkey's ambassador to the United States, Serdar Kilic, was equally aggressive in his comments, tweeting: "Understand this: Turkey is a country whose warnings should be taken seriously and listened to. Don't test Turkey's patience. Try to win its friendship."
Fuck Kilic.
A Turkey that Roared :)
Time for some turkey shooting.
I think Recap is thinking like a greedy fucking Turk. He thinks, "Putin needs my RosAtom contract and my Gaz contract. I can huff and puff and blow his whole Syria house down."
I think Putin calls his bluff. Here's what I see happening:
1.) Turkey becomes a NO GO zone for Russian tourists and busines
2.) They won't cut the gaz but terms will change and the price will increase
3.) Iran and Russia will double down on Syria
4.) S500s will flow like water to Iran
not S500...that tech tightly held
this > Kurdish YPG
This can quickly esculate to a war invloving US, Europe and Russia.
China would join together with Russia.
US is screwed because they sent alll their manufacturing to China.
Russia and China are the founding member states of The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) an intergovernmental economic and military alliance of mutual security.
Shanghai Cooperation Organization Forces:
Active personnel 5,325,000
Reserve personnel 7,675,000
Available personnel for immediate activation and Conscription 192,039,958
Total of personnel 205,039,958
The economic and numerical might of China, together with the military prowess and vast nuclear arsenal of Russia.
http://www.sectsco.org/EN123/
is that so?
Zen Master
The problematic thing about EU is that it cannot fight. Most Europeans do not want to fight Russians. Or anyone for that matter since we had our 2 great wars. The only exceptions seem to be France and UK. France which is an old ally of Russia and also a role model for Russia's nobility and people (not during Napoleon for obvious reasons). Britain is bloated with Russian oligarchs (not sure if good or bad). Germany does not want anything with war and neither does Italy. You think Orban will order planes against Russia. Or Scandinavia. I guess Poland could do something (they did it to Hitler's Germany before), but if they understand western Europe they are not going to go against Russia even with US backing. If no one in EU attacks Russia and Russia does not attack anyone in EU, there cannot be war with EU (probably just sanctions).
Hence we go back to Turkey and USA and ME allies vs Russia, Iran and China.
Or who knows. Maybe Europeans go crazy and start remilitarizing because of a chain of false flags from migrants. When people get angry, that anger can be redirected to anything you wish.
Poland is not attacking Russia. The new government is a nationalist government and as much as they hate Russia they also hate Germany. Actually they hate Germany more. .... and these are people who have very long memories so they hate the Turks as well,.
Erdogan...warned that, because of its military intervention in Syria, Russia risked forfeiting a $20bn contract to build a nuclear power plant on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast.
I'm sure Putin is already considering an alternative means of delivering a nuclear solution to Turkey.
Putin is going to walk the RosAtom contract. Guaranteed because if they have nuke power they need less gas. Putin just did a quick time value money formula in his head and realized he is better walking Rozatom deal and jacking the price up his gaz contracts to Turkey after this bullshit.
All the reprisal speculation is idiotic. Russia is not going to attack Turkey. Turkey is a major power with over half a million troops and nuclear bombers stationed in it.
I can tell you what's going to happen: Turkey will pay reparations and friendly ties will continue.
STFU Flapping your gums. You don't know what happens next.
whoops... problem with the valves... gas is 50% less volume than yesterday...
russians will wait until Turkey presents proof of russian SU24 crossing turkish borders
if turkey fails to provide the proof then economic actions will follow (there can be no other reaction)
I disagree. The Kurds would seem to be Russia's natural ally against ISIS. And the Kurds have a presence along a good part of Turkey's souther border. Some sophisticated arms shipments from Russia to the Kurds would send a real message to Ankara, without escalating to economic retaliation.
Time for Vlad to discover some opressed Russian speakers in Turkey.
If Vlad turns off the gas to Turkey that kind of limits him doing the same to the Ukies, he didn't ask for this but he's starting to stretch himself with Ukraine, Syria and maybe Turkey on the plate at the same time.
If push comes to shove Turkey will be quickly exposed as not ready for prime time military, they can kick arab ass whenever they like but Europeans are made of sterner stuff.
Maybe time for civil airlines to detour around Turkey like Ukraine
He will shut off the gas to and via Ukraine.
This stops gas supplies to European Turkey but not Asian Turkey. Including Kurdistan.
Turkey is the puppet in this. If Russia wants to send Turkey a message, the best way might be to arm the Kurds. Game theory would suggest sending the Kurds some anti-tank weapons equivalent to, or better than TOW and maybe some older generation MPADS.
But if Russia wants to send a message to America, that can easily be accomplished with a buy order for a couple thounds tonnes of gold through London, or Zurich.
yes and yes... more gold , arm Kurds with new tanks and nice stuff...
and... more importantly... buy 2 billion $ of silver today.. no need to buy gold... it will have the same effect.
right on Usura! The Kurds are Erdogan's number one enemy...and they are having trouble getting arms to fight Turkeys huge army. No better way to have plausible deniability, yet still slap the Turks in the head.
Putin will not react hot ....he's a chess player. Let time pass and at some point the right situation on the board will become evident...then Putin will respond.
Retaliation is a meal best served cold.....
YPG are the universal better liked Kurds...
Breaking News:
Putin arrives at COMEX
I always thought it was a mistake for Russia to do gas business with Turkey.
Three options now;
1) Russia calls for a UN conference so he can publically threaten Turkey and demand ammends. Erdogan, narcissist he is and believing he has NATO backing will reject it until he is warned about step 2
2) Russia cuts off Turkey's gas. In the middle of the winter. Erdogan begs EU for assistance, EU throws Erdogan a bone.
3) Russia begins destroying Turk AA platforms. They call this an act of self defense based on Turkey's previous actions. Erdogan demands NATO assistance. US talks crap but EU leaders cower under their beds.
I am genuinely laughing at all the comments encouraging revenge and escalation. What, exactly, will that accomplish?
Half these comments belong on 1990s yahoo stock message boards.
The reality is that the cost of the airplane and pilot training cannot be made up by any unilateral action by Russia.
Turkey will pay compensation and that's the end of that.
Simon says
If it were between two normal individuals, perhaps this would be the outcome, but not between Russia and Turkey. Understand that Russia can not allow their planes to be shut down with impunity. If Erdogan would have reacted by stating publically that everyone acted foolishly and offered compensation to Russia, then yes. But Turkey is not going to do that, they have been behaving as an aspiring regional superpower with delusions of grandeur. Russia can not allow anyone to shot down their planes without counter action. First, they loose credibility internationally. Second, they would, by tacit pasivity, invite additional action by Turkey.
Russia is trying to establish some regional credibility here. They took the opportunity caused by DCs weekness in the region, to gain new allies. If these alies (Iran, Iraq for now) see that Turkey can intimidate Russia, they will shift the alliance. Russia must show strength, or at least force Turkey to back down.
There is no monetary price that can relieve one of such an action.
Right now NATO is meeting and very likely Turkey is getting their dim witted asses reamed.
If Russia does not respond with a military strike nor economic one they will at the very least change their tactic in Syria,.
These were 2 aircraft that were flying an air to ground mission. They had not anticipated an attack from the air... especially since other NATO nations are flying in Syria and are trying to avoid incidents.
Next time these types birds go in the air they will have an escort that is equipped for air to air combat and very likely order to shoot first and ask questions never.
I remember someone saying on here that the U.S. or anyone else is afraid to lock onto a Russian jet because the Russian jet would magically shut down the enemy electronics and dominate them thereafter. A fighter pilot from Turkey, that's right Turkey (shaking head), locked and shot down a Russian jet? Albeit the jet was U.S. made. But what happened to the electronic jamming technology that everyone thinks the Russians have as their ace in the hole that no one has a counter measure to? Not trying to be an asshole here but serious question, what happened?
Maybe they only have 3 of them.
The jet was from the 1960s. Ancient technology only useful for bombing caves in the mountains.
I bet it was put in harm's way for PR purposes like this. Imagine the nationalistic surge in Russian Federation!
what tech has to do with it stpupid ?
Turks shot down Russian plane 4km inside syrian territory using AA missiles mind you not in Turkey Airspace. Go rape your brains out
Putin should turn the gas off to Turkey. Fuck them let them freeze!
https://www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/ifri_rnv_85_eng_the...
Background reading on Moscow and the Kurds
If Putin shuts the gas off, Turkey will go cold turkey. Merry fucking Xmas.
"NATO" a force in name only. Without the US flag on the airplanes, they won't be flying to Turkey's defense. Socialism has neutered western europe.
Putin should nuke with tactical nukes Turkmen "Freedom" fighters
simply sayin: to give them some warmth
Nukes only lead to more nukes.
A short burst of button pushing followed by a short burst of radiation followed by casualties in megadeaths.
I dissagree'; 1 Kt of nuke would make the place paradise for Turkmen jihadist for about 5-8 yaers with cesium of course
no need for nukes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzASnmmxIM
A country that gets 57% of its gas from Russia decides to shoot down a Russian plane just as winter is starting...
*Picard face-palm*
Maybe they're playing the long game, and this is the way to alternative suppliers through Syria.
Well, if that's the long game, they'd better double-down on the long john's, because it's gonna get chilly in Istanbul, or Constantinople, or whatever they're calling it these days.
Putin on Turkish Gov
"accomplices of terrorists."
Well lets see, they have couped the Ukraine with Nazis and blamed that on Russia, levied serious sanctions on them, overthrown countless governments, blown their power into Crimea putting nuke plants at risk, funded terrorists that blow up their passenger jets full of civilians and are now killing their pilots and shooting down their aircraft. Eventually something is going to snap.
I have a job offer in Antarctica and if I didn't have a dog I would be packing my shit right now and taking my chances in the environment of John Carpenters "The Thing" over dealing with this garbage. There is a huge karmic reckoning coming and what has gone on with Russia is just a tiny drop in the bucket.
Take your dog with you and go to Patagonia, Chile, or Argentina. I took mine to South Africa and from there to Mauritius. I like to play hopscotch between Mauritius & the Seychelles. The maldives aren't that far from the Seychelles by plane. My dog & I are living proof it can be done.
It's not so simple as turning off the valve for Russia. Sure, the Turks get 57% of their gas from Russia; but with the Russian economy in a downward spiral with the rest of us they can't exactly afford to cut off a big customer like that.
A military response is probably out of the question as Turkey is playing the role of the tiny kid on the playground bullying someone knowing his big dumb brother (NATO) will come help him out if the bullied kid fights back.
The obvious solution is to raise rates for the Winter as punishment. Turkey has no choice but to pay, for at least this winter season.
Nope US has refused to intervene between Turkey and Russia and it is because of NATO wraith these asshole member think they can shoot down any plane because no one will dare to attack us.
Turkey shot that plane down with full blessings from the US. In fact it was most likely "under orders from the US", who in turn is just taking their orders from the real global war mongers, the banking mafia. Who else would be calling the shots over there? Everybody on earth knows this is a proxy war and Putin know that better than anyone. I'll bet Turkey was scared shitless to pull that trigger but they were forced to... as good obedient members of NATO.
I doubt it. Turks are not that smart and probably still think of themselves as the Ottoman Empire.
They have the same empire disease as other arrogant little shits like Britain and France. Empires long gone.
Funny, because Italy nor Spain have that problem. They seem to have gotten over it (mostly)
You're high. The Russians were they were told not to be time and time again. They paid the price. Full stop.
"Full Stop"... Look we have a little navy faggot trying to chime in.
DISAGREE. Let me say why. Right now every major energy producer knows what THEY ALL need is for output to be substantially reduced to boost price and return energy prices to levels they can make at least a little profit (probably somewhere between $60 and $80).
The problem has been, none of the energy producers want to be the savior of all energy producers. And none of them want to cut back proportionately in cooperation with all the others because they all need every penny of revenue (even at a loss) to prevent their debt-laden fiat economies from near-instantaneous collapse.
HOWEVER... Putin is more willing than almost anyone else to make painful short-term decisions that have medium/long term benefits.
Cutting off energy supplies would HURT LIKE HELL in the short run. But fairly quickly this would boost energy prices for all major energy producers. This includes prices on the energy products Russia sells to ALL other nations in reasonably short order, thereby [more-than] offsetting the loss of energy sales to Turkey.
If I can figure that out, so can Putin.
BTW, now that Russia and China are almost "best friends", and share an enormously long border with each other that cannot be intercepted by ANYONE, Russia has a supplier for just about every product they could possibly need without access to western markets. And the few items they may not be able to get directly (if the west fully boycotts Russia), China can buy for them and pass it through to Russia for a tiny fee. Plus, China consumes a lot of energy, and could probably be persuaded to import more energy from Russia and reduce import from elsewhere (especially NATO and their friends and allies).
Russia doesn't have an overwhelmingly strong hand here, but they have a pretty good one... perhaps better than the west (now that most western manufacturing has been moved to China and nearby).
must be Black Swan Hunting Season
just cut the turks from the gas supply
Revenge is best served cold, be patient....Putin will keep doing the job in Syria with some surprises sprinkled in...
In all of this, I think the shooting down of the jet can be "smoothed" over. Someone with a quick trigger....blah, blah, blah.
But, they shot up his pilots. They shot up the helicopter that went after them.
That is the shit that would piss off Vlad.
Float a big boy boom-a-roo bomb down the pipe.
Turkey the most stupid thing you have ever done in your history which you have stolen from my people the Greeks, shooting down Russian plane... Now your fucked Putin is not going to forget or forgive!!!!! The Kurds just benefitted from this mistake...soon no gas for turkey then civil unrest in the country..FUCK YOU TURKISH PARASITES.. Go blow the Israelis and keep taking it up the A$$ by USSA...
Lets see, Turkey, a NATO member ,just shot down a Russian aircraft.... ( and openly admitted it)...
If this happened lets say just 5 years ago how manny people would vote that it would mean ww3 ?
If I extrapolate this we will soon have some nukes going off somewhere not to far away...
And most people would still be in denial..........
We are heading for a monetairy dissaster or war, but probably both.
And most people are, and will be, just in plain denial..
I hear a strong voice "history ritmes"
One can't make this bat shit up....
Take care.
And to make sure the action was understood, the pilots were excecuted while trying to save themselves parachuting down....
Go go.....
Take care
Whatever Putin does it will be thoughtful and effective. It will not be driven by the news cycle. Probably good news for the Kurds, really bad news for ISIS and for a number of Turkish ISIS enablers.
Anyone see that stupid fuckin contrived border between Syria and Turkey where the Russians were shot down and then killed? It is beyond ridiculous! The section of land that the Russians flew over is a long narrow (arbitrarily set border) extended into Syria 10k or more. Watching BBC news, the map keeps changing. The Limey's when they're talking about Turkey wanting to fight ISIS (yeah right) show the area I just described on a superimposed map. Then when BBC makes a point against Assad and how there is supposedly no ISIS fighters in Northern Syria, the map is changed, showing the very North Western part of Syria extending through Turkish proximity. Fuck BBC and Lamestream media...