This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Russia Deploys Warship Off Syrian Coast To "Destroy Any Threats To Russian Planes"
Despite demands from France's Hollande, America's Obama, and NATO's Stoltenberg that this situation not esclate, it appears Putin is not taking the shooting down of a fighter jet lying down. The seemingly cagey confirmation by NATO and Obama of Turkey's claims that Russia invaded its airspace has been rebuked by Russia which claims the Hmeimim airbase radar shows the attacking Turkish plane violating Syrian airspace. In response, Russia is moving a Cruiser 'Moskva' off the coast to strengthen air-defenses - just as French and US carriers are on their way.
Here is The Turkish version mapping of the flight paths.
Russia claims otherwise:
- HMEIMIM AIRBASE'S RADAR SYSTEM RECORDS VIOLATION OF SYRIAN AIRSPACE BY ATTACKING TURKISH WARPLANE - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY
And is escalating:
- RUSSIAN 'MOSKVA" CRUISER TO GO TO AREA IN COASTAL LATAKIA TO STRENGTHEN AIR DEFENSE IN SYRIA - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY
The Missile cruiser in question:
The reason for the deployment:
- RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES GENERAL STAFF: NONE OF OUR PARTNERS, COUNTRIES FIGHTING ISIL HAVE EVER TOLD US THAT SO-CALLED MODERATE OPPOSITION UNITS WERE IN AREA WHERE SU-24 DOWNED
- NO ATTEMPTS REGISTERED ON PART OF TURKISH PLANE TO GET IN TOUCH OR ESTABLISH VISUAL CONTACT WITH OUR CREW VIA OBJECTVE CONTROL DEVICES - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINSTRY
- WARSHIP TO DESTROY ANY THREATS SEEN TO RUSSIAN PLANES: IFX
Specifically, as RT reports, the steps announced by Russian top brass as the following:Three steps as announced by top brass:
- Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
- Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
- Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
Just like the downing of flight MH17 over Ukraine, it has quickly become a case of "he said, she said":
Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber. The Turkish fighter jet made no attempts to contact Russian pilots before attacking the bomber, Rudskoy added.
“We assume the strike was carried out with a close range missile with an infra-red seeker,” Rudskoy said. “The Turkish jet made no attempts to communicate or establish visual contact with our crew that our equipment would have registered. The Su-24 was hit by a missile over Syria’s territory."
Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.
As a result, Russia now plans to implement new measures aimed at strengthening the security of the country’s air base in Syria and in particular to bolster air defense. Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva, equipped with the ‘Fort’ air defense system, similar to the S-300, will be deployed off Latakia province's coast.
"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.
“All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended,” he added.
Furthermore, as the Russian Ministry of Defense explained, going forward, any Turkish plane that enters Syrian airspace will be fair game.
#SYRIA #Rudskoy Russian Defence Ministry warns that all the potentially dangerous targets will be destroyed
— ?????????? ?????? (@mod_russia) November 24, 2015
And again, all this is happening as both the French carrier de Gaulle and the US carrier CVN-75 USS Harry S. Truman are on their way to a very dangerous rendezvous off the Syrian coast.
So just as we warned in September, the situation has become a complete rerun of the 2013 Syria "Mediterranean" showdown, with full naval engagement by all parties, except this time the tensions are significantly escalated, a Russian fighter jet has just been taken down, US and French aircraft carriers are arriving in weeks, and Putin will not hestitate to go as far as he has to in order to save face.
»
- 6139 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
That is great!
But it didnt stop the US from bending truth, creating fiction, disregarding factual evidence, and everything that could be considered to fall under the umbrella of throwing a temper tantrum and taking your toys home.
If they won't play fair, I see no reason I should.
It appears Putin does walk into things without seeing clearly.
Lost an airliner, lost a military jet, ISIS being armed with new advanced weapons, possible NATO boots on the ground in Syria (to occupy and govern).
And no, we cannot count on Putin to take any real action. Not against any NATO country or NATO protected country.
And no, Continued inaction by Putin is not some master chess move.
So Putin is going to sail a ship to the coast. A lot of nothing but show and bluster. Putin obviously flew his jets into a situation while his eyes were closed.
Shot down while fighting the same enemy that, what did our dear leader say? some 65 countries are united in the fight against ISIS.
Don't worry kid, Putin's eyes are wide open..
By the way, did you know that any other nations planes OTHER than Russian is violating Syrian airspace?
Dipshit...
Let's keep our eyes open too. To say that Erodgan ordered this may be a mistaken assumption. It would imply that he has absolute control over the military and not the other way around. If the military decided to go against their own "pussy president" for the sake of Turkish national security, what's Erodgan going to do? He's going to go along with the decision whether he made it or not. The fact that a leader needs to be seen as in control gives those under him more ... flexibility.
The only thing that surprises me about this incident is that Turkey took this long to shoot down a Russian plane. Lord only knows what else they're doing directly to aid ISIS.
That Russia lost a few things while in theater is no surprise, some losses are always expected in a shooting war.
But before we go too far criticizing Russia for what they've lost thus far in Syria, would anyone care to regale us all as to how much military hardware and cash the US has lost so far in its Middle Easter wars?
We can start with Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya...
I do recall a certain article within the past few months regarding all the US hardware that was recently "lost" in Yemen.
Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Libya - ALL Russia's allies. Now look at them.
What NATO allies has Putin taken down?
What is funny is that Russia actually voted for the no-fly zones and sanctions against many of these countries. Could you tell me the last time Russia bombed a NATO country?
When was a NATO jet taken down by Russia?
Did not Russia vote FOR the arms embargo and naval blockade against Yemen?
Russia campaign in Syria started well and quickly, then Putin did not take control, then NATO countries started flying more missions into Syria to support ISIS, now NATO is talking about occupying and governing sections of Syria, upgraded modern weapons are supplied to ISIS, Putins airliner gets taken down, Putins fighter jet gets engaged and shot down by a NATO jet ----- the entire momentum and direction turned and it is not good for Putin. If Putin had grown a pair right off when he started in Syria and declared a no-fly zone (and enforced it) he might have had a chance. Now, due to playing checkers not chess, he is reacting to their moves and being disgraced.
And so much for how superior Russia jets are. They may be but tactics can make up for that.
Hearts and minds, yo. Gonna be a lot easier to make allies with 100+ countries (even if they are minor ones) if the US, Israel and NATO fire the first shot(s).
@ Blankone
Actually a SU 24 is a ground support aircraft, more warthog than fighter. It was attacked by an F-16, not a fair match at all.
The article mentioned that from now on the bombers will have fighter cover, presumably SU 30 or whatever flankers. Hence obuttholes deployment the other day of an F-15 squardon to Turkey.
It's gonna get real hot soon.
Beware the Lamb!!!
Blankone, stop asking good questions. STFU and buy gold.
It's a great "store of value", don't ya know? Just look how much value you could've 'stored' the last 5 years, instead of losing it on stocks and a depressed stock market.
Kirk's Postulate: People claim they want the Truth, but that's not quite true. What they really want is the truth that aligns with their worldview. Just try to challenge or rattle that worldview with facts or a Preponderance of Evidence, and watch them get defensive or go on the offense. Most people are sheeple, little more than trained monkeys. [sigh]
Good questions? His answer was bullshit. All the illegal and immoral US interventions into Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria have been unmitigated disasters for the US and those countries, not Russia. The US has suffered great lost of blood and treasure. Seriously, WTF are you guys talking about? Russia has been clobbering ISIS targets since they began bombing them. You miss the video here the other day showing exactly that?
They drinking too much Stolichnaya vodka. Is bottled in Latvia. Need say any more?
You are not even close to what the goals of those interventions were. They were not disasters for those who ordered the wars to be fought.
Those who gave those orders do not care about the treasure as none of theirs was used and the blood is just sport to them. Like watching a cock fight.
Putin got the jump (and surprise) and has been clobbering ISIS. But he allowed ISIS to be better equiped and now his airliners crash and his fighter jets are engaged and shot down by F16's and there is talk of putting NATO boots on the ground which then instantly becomes a "safe" area for ISIS. Even the capital has not been secured.
Say what? Trillions of dollars wasted and thousands of US soldiers killed and injured in Afghanistan and Iraq. Libya torn to shreds and the US lost an Ambassdor and others who were murdered after being left stranded by Hillary Clinton and the US State Department. And the US effort in Syria has completely backfired using ISIS to remove Assad. Goals? How about FUBAR? And yet you are critical of Russia's first couple of months in Syria? You are way off the mark and totally full of shit describing what has actually taken place there.
The ones who ordered the war, for their benefit, do not pay those financial costs, the soldiers are expendable mercenaries to them, the Ambassdor was knowingly sacrificed.
The countries they wanted destroyed have been destroyed. All Russian allies and Russia just watched. The plan in Syria was working well, just it was taking longer than hoped. Russia created a hicup, and that is now being delt with. The great momentum of Russia is being muted and now NATO has directly shot down a Russian jet while it was in Syria. Syria is greatly destoyed already. ISIS holds ground just outside the capital and has made strikes on the capital. Putin waited far, far too long to act if his goal was to preserve Syria. But if Putin's goal is to take the western coastal region of Syria for himself then by causing Syria to expend it's militiary strength, fighting age men and financial resources against ISIS while Putin watched, have been an effective course of action.
Actually, they've been a smashing success for the MIC's institutional imperatives: 1) profits for arms manufacturers and other military contractors, 2) career enhancement for military brass, civilian employees of the CIA, Pentagon, State Department, and militarist thinktanks, 3) blockbuster movies and sensational headlines to sell media (and also contribute to the necessary fear and jingoism), 4) pork for politicians and 5) attendant high paying jobs guaranteed by ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations) for “US persons” that keep those employees loyal to the system.
Our military hardware is not really lost. It's merely a token that represents the amount of money extracted out of citizens via taxation and inflation to be transferred into the pockets of MIC profiteers and Fed bankers.
For each US widget on fire there's some rich cocksucker's kid getting accepted into Harvard. For each downed plane there's a private yacht and a stuffed wine cellar etc.
It's all bullshit.
sigh....you people make me weep. You better fucking be good and hid when the tears are gone.
Rah. Rah. Rah.
You want to die in a Nuclear War.
As your children freeze to death as a result of a NUCLEAR WINTER I can see nobody more deservin' as warmongers as yourself.
Turkey Attacks Russia in Syria SITREPhttp://thesaker.is/turkey-attacks-russia-in-syria-sitrep-by-scott/
Russian military radar data shows F-16 loitering near coast, then crossing Syrian border into Syrian airspace before shooting down the Su-24, which had detoured south around the 2 km finger of Turkish territory
http://www.russiadefence.net/viewimage.forum?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%...
Pre planned ambush.
Too many co-incidences.
Correct, and the message is sent with another slap of Putins face.
He doesn't take it personally.Losses are to be expected in war.
The Russians have already surprised the West.Tit for tat trying to find out each others tactics.
S300s have probably already been shipped today, and will be deployed by December 1st.
Putin will double down,he has no choice.
I agree he does not react out of personal insult but he does anger I believe. He is also aware of potential consequences of looking feeble to the allies he has left.
The key on the S300's will be under whose control they will be. Will they only be close to his bases on the coast.
The fact that Putin has delayed getting this system established in Iran is inexcusable.
BUT, then we do not know Putin's real motivations, intent and goals. Is he even for the good of greater Russia or is he for the elite. Is he part of the NWO and this is all just internal conflict among members on who gets what. (Using the sheep's lives)
Who cares. The more salient question is: Will Russia now impose a No-Fly Zone (NFZ), like they should have from the start?
I asked this Q weeks ago. See pasted text below...
- - - - - -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-05/cia-saudis-give-select-syrian-m...
Kirk2NCC1701 Thu, 11/05/2015 - 11:24 | 6753818
...Alternatively, and the more probable course of action, would be to impose a total No-Fly, No-Entry Zone over Syria to ALL foreign planes and vehicles, who do not have the permission of the Syrian government. Do this at the UN. Now! That way, when the DOD/CIA tries to resupply their Rebels, they too get shot out of the sky. What you gonna do then, bitch?
- - - - -
The failure of having a No-Fly-Zone (NFZ) has led directly to this situation. It is also not that relevant who advised against it, or made the final call on that (besided Putin himself, most likely). The point is, it was the wrong decision. That can still be corrected, before more bad decisions get made on that particular wrong decision. Failure to do so, indicated deeper problems in Russia's Situational Analysis, or lack of Will to do what is necessary.
Clearly, as US and NATO actions keep showing, Posturing is not enough: The Deterrence must be clear and absolute. Syria's and Russia's fight against ALL Rebels, ALL Jihadists is not and should not be open to Western opinion, preferences or wishes. Nor should it be open to their pretentious and two-faced "participation". In short, they must issue this statement: Henceforth, to prevent an escallation between Russian and NATO forces, ALL foreign Forces -- be they by land, sea or air - are unwelcome in Syria and prohibited from unlawful entry, i.e. Entry that has not been approved by the Syrian Government. Announce it publicly, and at the UN security council. Or suffer the consequences of compounding the problems from a Wrong Call.
" I can imagine the Russians have much more planned than just suspending militiary cooperation."
Yes. For Turkey, and more so for a psychopath like Erdogan, losing control over the airspace over Syria near the border to Turkey is inacceptable. Erdogan made a strategic miscalculation that shows the world just how dead-stupid this guy is. For Russia it comes as a gift: It has now all reasons to set up a total no-fly zone over North Syria referring to today's incident. And no power in the world can hinder prevent Russia from doing this.
Er da goon gets disinvited to the dinner party?....can't date Putins daughter?...gets disemboweled after a wrong turn into any country other than Turkey???
Erdy might not have given a direct order but I'm guessing Putin is not too hung up on formalities. I'd watch my back if I was in leadership in Turkey. He might get a 'Kurdish Wedgie'™...I'm not sure what that is but I'm thinking it would be worse than just a Texas wedgie...
Oh they do, they know that the west is arming ISIS and other rebel and terrorists groups in order to oust Assad. Russia will strike and it will be nasty. Those anti-ship missiles which that ship is known for happen to be taking station in the area that the Carriers from the US and France are. Making sure if the US or the other pulls anything that they can launch an attack that can take out a ship or two. This is getting escalated to the point that we may be in WWIII soon.
What am I doing in this handbasket? Where the Hell are we going?
Vlad will shove this down Erdogans and BHOs throats in a very obtuse manner sooner than later. All of the prior schemes from Erdogan and BHO wil go up in flames as Russia sides with the Kurds and the Lions of Rojava just to teach these control freaks a very big lesson ! Payback will surely be a bitch when dealing with a group that does not oprerate on 100% deceit, control mechanisms and zero PC !
http://www.downtoearththinking.com/the-lions-of-rojava.html
Putin will use the latest laser technology supplied by the chinese, without leaving a trace.
Can't show your hand too early. There is still the USA and Israel. Who knows what ISrael has.
Agree, he knows what they got. He is great at chess too.
Frikken lasers
on Sharks
That can fly.
Shark-Laser-Nado
Bad time to be flying commercial.
OK, I'm ears here. Stars...who? Romantic interest? How? CGI or real laser-armed flying sharks...budget buster?
You've got two minutes to own this. Win and your name is next to the credit for screenwriter.
Go.
Low budget stop motion animation of guys in shark laser suits trashing small-scale models, unknown middle eastern actors/actresses
A tiny country, which cannot take one major hit, doesn´t count.
And better believe that.
No way. It's not going to be China, not Russia.
Israel is going to be the next super power. They will take the entire peninsula. They've even been lying about their population. The Palestinians are almost gone.
They are about to make a BIG statement. It will make you believe in the bible again.
They could end up as the next nuclear test site too.
Trust me. You would not have believed that a nation of Israel could even exist where the Arabs lived. But they have managed to create a country and wipe out the Palestinians in plain view. But that aint NUTHIN.
This will be spectacular. Nobody will have an answer. They have set the whole thing up. Russia v the West.
Ever notice how they've been soooo quiet about ISIS and the Syria war. Usually they're kicking up a fuss at the slightest thing. They are VERY calm indeed. Plus this has been planned for a long time
http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-mid...
So says the PNAC/CFR troll who's been here an entire 8 hours.
Go fuck yourself bagel boy.
Anyone that's done their homework has known about the Yinon plan for quite some time now, it ony came out in the 19fkn80s.
And if yaweh himself showed up, I'd still spit in his non-god fkn face.
Kikestanis really have to up the crazy level now to keep us from laughing at them.
Israel so quiet because those "radical terrorists who hate israel and support Palestinians" never attack israel
It's ISIS vs. The World except for israel - you don't seriously think anyone here can't figure out WHY they never bother israel, fuckhead?
http://tomatobubble.com/id933.html
I;m sure Bibi and Putin have already discussed Israels future,or lack thereoff, potable
water supplies.. Thats why they are keeping quiet.
Water is much more important than oil,Cant drink crude, just as you can't eat gold.
Without water you have nothing,even more so in the MENA.
If the Palestinians are almost gone which I could believe due to the damage in Gaza the death toll is 100 times higher then we should just nuke them. They used the Pals as human shields all these years.
Israel got it's ass handed to them by Hezbollah in 2000 and 2006. Hezbollah is a militia.
Norman Finkelstein talking about how Hezbollah beat Israel. Go to 2:49.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDe65-nF3FQ
Robert Baerex-CIA officer talks about how Hezbollah (Iran) beat Israel twice. Go to 5:00.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD6YR8lQq40
Time not on their side, once again.
"Who knows what ISrael has."
Whatever it can steal from the US?
Over 100 miles (S-300), and Mach 2.4 (Gecko) at short range.
I was talking Sidewinder and AMRAAM. Yeah, ground (sea) launched is another thing entirely.
All good. THe collective point is that the Moskva can do a "boatload" of damage if put to good use.....
Turkey doesn't have those active types of missiles. Infrared missiles have a range of until 12 miles, but only fairly effective inside 5.
Turks may as well be training Parisian terrorists then...
No....they leave that to the US
Not to mention that it would be quite a feat to have warned the Russian jet 10 times as the Muslim Erdogan is claiming. Next time Turkey gets anywhere near a Russian jet expect to see F-16s being shot down en masse. This is getting very interesting...
Russia should shoot down Turkey and then yell: your turn with your pathetic army.
USAF techs lovingly refer to the F-16 as lawn darts.
Go long General Dynamics then?
Nothing about this war adds up. Russia stirring up the hornets nest. The zionists had a good thing going and now 'gog' has turned up?
Russia will expose the foul play involved. They tried to warn them off by downing a civ aircraft and now this. They don't realise that Putin is playing for keeps. The oil price being manipulated plus the sanctions mean Putin has not got time to fuck around. He will get straight to the point.
It all adds up. Russia knows exactly what the coalition has been and is doing in Syria....supporting their proxy army against Russia's ally. They are not prepared to see a US puppet dictator 'elected' in Syria whilst the US's proxy army moves on to destroy Iraq and then, the big prize. Iran.
Purin has painted a red line. But unlike Obammy, he'll stick to his red line come hell or high water.
But at what point do the zionists pull the plug? It's one thing to take Crimea. But this is part of future Israel.
I think they'll try and move it all to Ukraine. Deflect attention.
Crimea also was future Israel. In case things in ME get too hot.
Crimea and the Caucusus was where the Zionists were hoping to re-establish Khazaria, IMO. Not gonna happen though!
Not to mention that the Russian Air Force has begun destroying ISIS oil truck caravans (something the US should have been doing from the so-called beginning) and that oil was no doubt destined for Turkish president Erdogan's son, Bilal Erdogan, who is head of the Turkish oil trading company, the BMZ Group.
ali-baba - of course that's the big question. Does Putin have the guts in fighting against ALL of NATO and all of the US military?
Based on Putin's recent decisions using rational and clear-headed thinking - I doubt he'll make a move.
What person in their right mind would want to take on such powerful military forces, as noted above?
Depends on how many of those NATO countries are down with Erdogan's oil trading for ISIS, and taking the blame for any Turkish provactions, should that be the case?
Turkey is not the most popular country out there, especially not with Islamic extremist Erdogan in power.
Excellent dective work!
I would add, that once the supposed violation occured, Turkey will calim right of hot pursuit. The right to strike because of the violation, even if the SU-24 was back in Syrian space.
A fine point I know, but this legal shit is how the world works. I expect Turkey to demand the "Right of Hot Pursit", should all else fail!
Then let Russia claim the right of hot pursuit into Turkey as it chases ISIS all the way back to Erdogan.
You can ease off on that Astroglide.
If the Russians won't impose a No Fly Zone in Syria, they sure as hell won't claim right to do hot pursuits into Turkey.
Hopes and wishes are one thing, but reality is another.
Very reckless. Even Boss Hog respected the county line when the good ol boys escaped across it. The conventions of popular fiction are important folks.
Now imagine that show, if Boss Hog ran drugs for the government of the state. You think they would have stopped at that county line?
To be fair that's a little different. I mean they were never meaning no harm. Also from a sociological perspective their behavior was to be expected. They'd been in trouble with the law since they day they was born.
But they were fightin' the system like a dual modern day Robin Hood.
"I expect Turkey to demand the "Right of Hot Pursit", should all else fail!"
Thus concluded Julius Caesar, when he decided to pursue his foes beyond the boundary of his own jurisdiction, marked by the Rubicon river. We just had a Rubicon moment, but Turkey is no Rome.
Syria's territory is sovereign! According to pajama clad fighting keyboardists. Meanwhile in the real world...
The "Right of hot pursuit" is a murky concept at best, and applies to the most egregious crimes in the international space, Jack. It has never been accepted for something as trivial as a clearly non-aggressive violation of airspace (17 seconds worth or otherwise). There are no specific rules of engagement for violating another country's airspace that anyone agrees on. The generally accepted and almost universal practice is to escort (force) an aircraft out of your airspace after warning it and then bitch about the violation diplomatically and in the press. Nobody is so cowardly as to ambush a transiting aircraft without warning except Israel - and now, Turkey. There is no such thing as an international law that describes precisely when one country is 'allowed' to shoot down another aircraft in it's airspace, just the nebulous suggestion that a country has the right to defend its airspace. Using an excuse of 'hot pursuit' to punish an airspace violation would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
In extreme cases, you would only dare shoot at an aircraft ignoring you if it remains in your airspace and only while it is in your airspace and some kind of credible threat. By Turkey's own admission, they only believed the Russian aircraft to be transiting their airspace for all of 17 seconds at 19,000 ft. while performing a combat mission clearly focused on Syrian territory. In order to intercept the Russian jet at the right moment to get off an air-to-air missile in that 17-second window, they had to have planned to intercept and fire on it well beforehand. This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting Turkish airspace, but rather protecting the Turkmen al Nusra head-choppers operating in Syrian territory that the Russian jets were bombing. It was no accident - Erdogan had the attack planned from the start. Russia and everyone in NATO knows that, they just can't say so.
Erdogan just royally screwed himself.
1) Putin repositioning the Moskva and threatening to protect Russian aircraft from any potential threats means Turkey will lose anything they try to bring within 20 miles of a Russian jet. NATO has pretty much left Turkey twising in the wind on this one - they said Turkey and Russia had to work it out on their own. Meaning when Russia takes out a Turkish F-16 ten miles inside Turkish airspace because it was a potential threat to a Russian aircraft, NATO won't lift a finger. They've already said as much before they sent Turkey packing this morning.
2) The al Nusra Turkmen and their Chechen jihadi pals in the mountains are probably in for a little carpet bombing and cruise missile showers. The Turkmen civilians are already panicing and fleeing Syria for Turkey, so there's even less reason for Russia to hold back. That place is going to get leveled and the Turkmen will never be allowed back. It sucks to poke the bear in your own backyard - you will be relocating as a result, not the bear. The SAA will own those mountains (or what's left of them) again in a few weeks.
Fuck the carpet bombing and cruise missiles. TOS the bastards back to the stone age. Full scorched earth - literally.
+1000 paveway. thank you for the depth, clarity & insightful observations.
Paveway IV I was seeking your comments.
I was sort of worried about you.
Said a prayer for you.
Thanks for commenting.
Thousands of Assyrian Christians, Alawites and Shia were slaughtered by Turkmen and Chechen al Nusra head-choppers in Latakia and driven from their homes. Those head-choppers shipped a truckload or two of kidnapped Alawite children to East Ghouta to be gassed and staged as victims for their Sarin false flag PR last year. Two Russian pilots were killed by Turkey today for trying to stop those same fucking head-choppers, who move freely back and forth across the border with Erdogan and the U.S.s blessings. A Russian marine from a rescue helicopter was killed trying to recover the bodies of his pilots from the head-choppers that machine-gunned them as they parachuted down. Those exact, same Turkoman/Chechen al Nusra head-choppers - plus some bonus Chinese Uighur head-choppers - are slaughtering Yazidis and Kurds in little villages around Afrin/Efrin right now for that evil fucking psychopath (and U.S. ally) Erdogan.
Thanks for the thought, but there's about 250,000 people ahead of me in line that really need your prayers. God already gave me superhuman powers, so I'm cool...
so true
+100
Paveway IV is one of the best posters here. I always look for his or her comments.
The only thing I question is if Erdogan did this alone as Paveway IV suggests. The vile Erdogan is angry his son's ISIS oil tankers keep getting hit but I think Erdogan got the greenlight from either See EYE Aye/State Dept or maybe someone else.
More please.
This is all I got for Wednesday AM in Syria, Freddie:
RUSSIAN AIR FORCE ANNIHILATED MILITANTS IN AREA WHERE SU-24 WAS SHOT DOWN. ERDOGAN ORDERED TURKISH AIR FORCE PLANES BE GROUNDED
Ooops! That didn't work out too good for Erdogan, did it? Erdogan owns the Turkish Stazi and purged the military (sort of), but he's still a bit vulnerable to a military coup. He's not too popular even with the military leaders he left in place. Turkish cops hate Erdogan, too.
I wonder if Erdogan ordered his planes grounded first or if his AF refused to fly into a wall of S-300s for him? Turk military leaders love their cushy jobs and occasionally beating up the Kurds, but none of them signed on for a very lethal 1:1 war with Russia. They might decide their own necks are far more important than Erdogans. He's replaceable.
Erdogan must GO!
Business people cannot be happy either. Russia pretty much has outlawed any Russian tourists going to Turkey. Not that any Russians want to go there now. F Erdogan and F Turkey.!
Wonderful insight. Thank you.
Turnkey* is supposedly fighting ISIS, not fronting for NATO/ZATO to provoke Russia, right?
An NFZ (No-Fly-Zone) to all foreign aircraft would work just fine -- with the added PR pretext of "Avoiding further incidents, that could lead to a direct NATO-Russian confrontation".
The world and the UN know that Syria has EVERY legal right to defend its sovereign territory against all incursions and invasions, that do not have the express permisssion of the Syrian government. This includes the right to an NFZ, especially during wartime.
Failure by Russia to impose and support one, would lead to a whole new set of FAQs -- none of which can be dismissed easily or with credibility, because it would highlight Russia's ability to impose it effectively. IOW, if they could do it, they'd have done it. [tick, tock]
* deliberate spelling
FYI, al Qaeda in Syria has been pushing for a no-fly-zone for quite some time.
You seem to forget government Syria is NFZ to decide.
At the risk of stating the obvious, having an NFZ would be totally in Syria's interest, as it would prevent US planes re-supplying ISIS or help direct their movements.
Turkey's leaders are all in with the idea of a Muslim Calliphate.
Europe beware.
No worries, Europe is in on the caliphate too. the NWO agenda has to be forced down the sheeple by the SOROS Neocons.
All I know is that prophecy is being fulfilled. Please make sure you tell your kids if you have any, that you're sorry they may not have a future.
Future looks good after some very tough times...
Beware the Lamb!!!
If you think the uSA and other western countries are not going to be invaded by Soros, Adelson, Geffen, Cronw-Krinsky, and the rest of the zios then you are dreaming.
Yes, be sure to tell the kids the truth: that You and your generation did not resist or fight against the tyranny of "The 2%", well, because:
- You were lazy, scared and disorganized
- You went soft. In the head and the gut.
- Like Cheney, when asked why he kept avoiding the Draft, you "had better things to do"
Our kids will have every to hate our guts and hold us in contempt, just as the Jihadists do.
The Russian plane was never in Turkey. Turkish fire came from within Syria. Turkish plane was in Syrian territorial airspace.
You forgot to write "sacred inviolable virginal" in front of "Syrian territorial airspace".
The various air forces and militia running around Syria blowing shit up beg to differ.
Yes, and with that simple move, they reclaimed the title of Owning The Narrative.
What they're saying is: "What ya gonna do now? Got the chips to ante up?"
If Russia were shrewd and ruthless, they'd do two things:
1. Support and arm Kurds with AA and TOW missiles, to make sure that they ratchet up their civil war against Erdogan.
2. Impose an NFZ over Syria
If it were me, I'd also make sure that the Allied Forces of Syria, Hezbollah and Iran attacked ISIS and other Rebels on the ground, and that wherever they met serious resistance, they'd carpet bomb the shit out of them (with FOABs). I'd also have the drones shoot at anything that moved along supply routes/roads.
In the old days, guys like Hitler, Stalin or even Dubya/Bush & Cheney did not fuck around. They didn't posture. They just kicked ass. Obama and Putin are pussies, by comparison.
All of this, directly over the territory between Syria and Turkey that is known to have most of the ISIS oil smuggling routes:
http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/
Can't have the Russians messing with the oil smuggling, right? Hopefully its too late and the oil routes are all destroyed already.
Holy shit, it's all about oil!!???
well, fuck me, I thought the world ran on unicorn farts and unadulterated hopium.
Lies will bury the WEst and its citizens, jaded and confounded by years of deception, will cheer their own demise.
IF only we could have been honest with ourselves- energy is THE lynchpin of civilization and securing it is bloody ugly Empire business.
The CIA cracks the eggs and we bitch while wolfing down the omelet.
Alternately we could embrace, you know, honest brokering and fair trade. CRAZY TALK I KNOW!!!!!
Pepe Escobar:
Washington greenlighted Russian Su-24 shoot down. Turkey are puppets and a scum country.
http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20151125/1030730838/turkey-erdogan-war...
And then there is this :
"The Turkish Air Force contends they warned the Russian aircraft 10 times over a span of 5 minutes before their jets opened fire. "
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-shoots-down-russian-warplane-ne...
Total CYA bullshit liars!
There is no way it could physically have been in Turkish airspace for 5 minutes with the given flight paths. It's absolutely clear it was in Syrian airspace.
No shit. The Russians were in syrian airspace. The Turks called them and said "Do not violate Turkish airspace" and they had not yet done that -- even thought they were close. But, then the Russians did violate the airspace and got tagged.
Hence Putin's response.
Self righteous retribution for all those tanker trucks is all this is.
Something else that does not add up.. Israel.. not a peep from them for a long while, no Beni on the air calling for calm, not even a token gesture of support to ANY body concerning the greatest terrorist threat to date.
Its like there not even worried....
Why, how many Israelis have Russian blood? They speak Russian in Israel too and have their own politicians. There is no anonomsity between Israel and Russia.
Just that the lack of any Israeli commentary, or support, for any of the coalition members or Russia is stunning
They like to keep shtum while their enemies are busy destroying each other.
The quiet is deafening isn't it?
Yup, that's been bothering many people, especially us Americans, for quite awhile now!
Israel has no loyalty to anyone, they will try and set up with the winner in the end.
They could be working behind the scenes using their dual loyalists in Western governments.
Putin,Iran, and Hezbollah have a lock on their water supply anytime they like.
they will play nicely or get thirsty.
In that case, give them a sample drought: An "accidental" contamination of downstream water, or start damming it, for hyrdro-electric purposes, now that other power stations are down.
I'm sure you know the old joke about the Brain, Heart and Asshole, when each wanted to be Boss.
"Israel.....not a peep from them for a long while....."
Yet, we know they are either in behind-the-scenes actions, or infested with motive/means along with the Saudi's and the US government neo-cons. Obviously, they are not sitting idly by twiddling their fingers. It's not in their nature.
No, its 24 miles and 5 minutes to traverse. 10 warnings would be one every 30 seconds. Still pushing the logic envelope, but lets be accurate.
Have you made up another map?
Please explain your reasoning in view of the legend provided on the map showing the flight paths.
https://www.here.com/?map=35.8277,36.1346,13,terrain
My map also says 3 miles max and potentially 4 seconds to cross it depending on plane speed. You're out by a factor of 10.
By whose map, Erdogan's unilaterally "negociated" borders or the UN's?
Because AlaricBalth if the russian jets were in turkish airspace for 5 seconds , as it appears from Turkish evidence, then the turkish pilots must have had standing orders to shhot down any incursions. After that happened, it was cover your ass time.
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2015/11/us-gives-their-prox...
How is it that there was a cameraman in position for the takedown and then there were soldiers waiting to shoot at the parachuting pilots? All of that would have taken place in less than a minute. It's almost as though it were all planned.
Cmon... The ground forces fighting in that area were everywhere. The aircraft incident happend directly over a very chaotic and manned up ground fight.
Its a miracvle that there aren't 100 photos and videos of the shoot down. Perhaps there will be when they get uploaded.
Russia should deploy the same strategy dealing with any threat to their planes: shot first claim infraction later, fire air defense missiles into Turkish air space from across the border, as well as engage inside the Turkish air space if necessary.
The Russian's flight time through the Turkish airspace would have been 20-30 seconds as AlaricBalth said.
A Sidewinder missile time of flight will be about 5-10 seconds roughly.
So, it's possible to conduct the missile engagement while the Russian was in Turkish airspace.
The fact the Su-24 impacted well into Syria indicates the aircraft was probably hit hear the western edge of the airspace. With the aforementioned flight times, then he was probably hit about 10 seconds after entering Turkish airspace.
This was an AMBUSH plain and simple.
Dude are you for real?
How can this be an "ambush" if the Russian jet was in Turkish airspace?
You just admitted the Russian jet violated Turkish airspace -- therfore the though of an ambush is impossible.
Yeah - "something clearly does not add up" until we recognize that the US Govt and its financial hegemony *owns* everybody - every western leader, ALL of NATO and most assuredly Erdogan. It's inconceivable that Erdogan would have taken this action without full cooperation by the US Pentagon, and all its neo-con leaders.........Erdogan is a nasty criminal who knows how to play both sides - both the US/NATO and Russia/Eurasian interests.
The Fencer was warned ten times in five minutes. This means the Turks were warning the Russian jet which was very close to Turkish airspace (but still in Syrian airspace) to not violate Turkish airspace -- but the Russians did anyhow. This means the Turks were armed and ready when they did -- and the Russian got bounced.
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2015/11/us-gives-their-prox...
Spammer, go fuck.
Nice comments and, ya know, I don't trust the US gov't anymore than I trust the Russkies, except I follow the internat'l news, and I observe the Americans bombing Doctors Without Borders, while the Russians are the first to bomb the supply lines of ISIS, leading to the border of Turkey, where ERdogan's son, Bilal Erdogan, head of the BMZ Group, will no doubt accept their oil and sell it for profit.
Would I rather see Doctors Without Borders bombed (by America) or ISIS bombed (by the Russians)?
Speaking as a patriotic American, I would far rather ISIS was bombed, along with any and all other head-choppers (Saudi Arabia, etc.) and see anyone bombing Doctors Without Borders hauled before an international war crimes tribunal!
Recommended reading:
The Devil's Chessboard, by David Talbot
Nook or other .epub readers - http://tuebl.ca/authors/43038
AlaricBalth you were right. Turkey claims 24 seconds of entering (contested) turkish airspace.
That's not enough time!
Russia has made their radar images public. On these it shows the rocket was launched while the SU-24 was still above Syria.
Either way... it doesn't add up.
http://sputniknews.com/military/20151124/1030695406/mod-su-24-flight-pat...
NATO now supports Turkey in shooting the plane down. This is dangerous as it places NATO against Russia, directly.
http://russia-insider.com/en/nato-secretary-general-we-stand-solidarity-...
Do they really want to start a nuclear war?
How can we stop these mad clowns?
Hot Damn! WW 2.96, just in time for Christmas!
Russia's version of events doesn't add up either. Their "flight path" for their fighter has it making a 90-degree turn in less than 1/10 of a mile, likely travelling at slower speeds. If the Jet were at speed and lining up a ground assault, it would *never* do this. That is a ridiculous maneuver while trying to line up a ground shot and I'd wager it simply never happened.
It is more likely that Russia was overflying that space, and got caught. It is also true that Turkey has the biggest itchy trigger finger the world has ever seen.
Both sides are lying, Turkey and Russia. This is a pissing contest except people are now dying over it.
Fuck NATO along with the Erdogan bitch.
NATO is a group of Bureaucrats.
They would be cowarding in their bunkers while the destruction goes on.
Such interesting times we live in. One of these will likely dominate our future, but they aren't mutually-exclusive.
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/if-windows-crashes-wwiii/
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/ghandis-terrorists/
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/in-reality-everything-is-c...
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/dynamics-of-national-colla...
Balls on chin moment...
That moment is every day for Obama, McCain, Graham.
I´m with Russia on this one
You and the rest of humanity. Russia are about the only non-zionists left.
Sure, even before Russians barely made a move to Syria Netanyahu was in Moscow. Why do Russians allow Israel to bomb shipments to hezbolah inside Syria?