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Russia Deploys Warship Off Syrian Coast To "Destroy Any Threats To Russian Planes"
Despite demands from France's Hollande, America's Obama, and NATO's Stoltenberg that this situation not esclate, it appears Putin is not taking the shooting down of a fighter jet lying down. The seemingly cagey confirmation by NATO and Obama of Turkey's claims that Russia invaded its airspace has been rebuked by Russia which claims the Hmeimim airbase radar shows the attacking Turkish plane violating Syrian airspace. In response, Russia is moving a Cruiser 'Moskva' off the coast to strengthen air-defenses - just as French and US carriers are on their way.
Here is The Turkish version mapping of the flight paths.
Russia claims otherwise:
- HMEIMIM AIRBASE'S RADAR SYSTEM RECORDS VIOLATION OF SYRIAN AIRSPACE BY ATTACKING TURKISH WARPLANE - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY
And is escalating:
- RUSSIAN 'MOSKVA" CRUISER TO GO TO AREA IN COASTAL LATAKIA TO STRENGTHEN AIR DEFENSE IN SYRIA - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY
The Missile cruiser in question:
The reason for the deployment:
- RUSSIAN ARMED FORCES GENERAL STAFF: NONE OF OUR PARTNERS, COUNTRIES FIGHTING ISIL HAVE EVER TOLD US THAT SO-CALLED MODERATE OPPOSITION UNITS WERE IN AREA WHERE SU-24 DOWNED
- NO ATTEMPTS REGISTERED ON PART OF TURKISH PLANE TO GET IN TOUCH OR ESTABLISH VISUAL CONTACT WITH OUR CREW VIA OBJECTVE CONTROL DEVICES - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINSTRY
- WARSHIP TO DESTROY ANY THREATS SEEN TO RUSSIAN PLANES: IFX
Specifically, as RT reports, the steps announced by Russian top brass as the following:Three steps as announced by top brass:
- Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
- Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
- Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
Just like the downing of flight MH17 over Ukraine, it has quickly become a case of "he said, she said":
Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber. The Turkish fighter jet made no attempts to contact Russian pilots before attacking the bomber, Rudskoy added.
“We assume the strike was carried out with a close range missile with an infra-red seeker,” Rudskoy said. “The Turkish jet made no attempts to communicate or establish visual contact with our crew that our equipment would have registered. The Su-24 was hit by a missile over Syria’s territory."
Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.
As a result, Russia now plans to implement new measures aimed at strengthening the security of the country’s air base in Syria and in particular to bolster air defense. Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva, equipped with the ‘Fort’ air defense system, similar to the S-300, will be deployed off Latakia province's coast.
"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,” lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.
“All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended,” he added.
Furthermore, as the Russian Ministry of Defense explained, going forward, any Turkish plane that enters Syrian airspace will be fair game.
#SYRIA #Rudskoy Russian Defence Ministry warns that all the potentially dangerous targets will be destroyed
— ?????????? ?????? (@mod_russia) November 24, 2015
And again, all this is happening as both the French carrier de Gaulle and the US carrier CVN-75 USS Harry S. Truman are on their way to a very dangerous rendezvous off the Syrian coast.
So just as we warned in September, the situation has become a complete rerun of the 2013 Syria "Mediterranean" showdown, with full naval engagement by all parties, except this time the tensions are significantly escalated, a Russian fighter jet has just been taken down, US and French aircraft carriers are arriving in weeks, and Putin will not hestitate to go as far as he has to in order to save face.
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yep, that is all i needed to say to an amoeba such as yourself, otherwise you are a waste of flesh and time
I come here for the banter. I hold two degrees, one of which is a Poli Sci degree with honors and one semester away from my masters. I relish academic debate and would welcome a cogent argument to challenge me. You and the others provide nothing of the sort, besides a few moments from Alphahammer but his incessant posting throws that out the window.
You? You're a pathetic dolt; a waste of time, Eunuch.
ok, touche...
Putin invaded Crimea, and has fomented civil war in Ukraine...NOW...Ozero and his gang of fags started the whole affair by ousting a Russian loving president.
That makes BOTH of them azzhats...it is when I only see one side being put down, that I say what I do.
Maybe I will tone it down a notch, and enter into more discussions, you do have a point.
I guess I deserved that...I have two degrees as well Information Systems and a Black Belt...I dont usually tout that, but since you were getting in a hissy fit, I obliged.
I know karate and a few other asian words.
Kono hen ni biiru ga arimasuka?
Kudos for a semi-sentient post. I can handle the name calling. I have kids and seeing our closest point of full on nuclear conflagration makes me worry for them....AND YOU. Unless you have a 12 million dollar bunker we can hide out in.
I have children as well and feel the same way...my point here is this...a LOT of folks on here see only one thing EVIL AMERICA, EVIL ISRAEL, and dismiss the EVIL everywhere else. There are no white hats anymore, it is all so self centered me me me...it has gotten to the point we cannot talk logically to each other any more...WWIII could be real, but so could a 2nd American civil war...that scares me even more.
Young sah bahm nihm
I have a good bit of land in some mountains, but i am not deluded enough to think i can get there given armeggedeon or a crash...but i do not fear death, i would almost welcome it, to get off this evil rock
you may not believe me but i believe in Jesus Christ the whole story (yes i am a great sinner)
i am wondering my good fellow, should you not apologize for name calling as well, not to me...
Totally relevant. I'm sick of these global chess player assholes trying to cornhole for world domination. They want it all. Most just want to BBQ, enjoy friends and family....simple things. I look past evil America and evil Israel et al because the people pulling the strings are beholden to no sovereignty. They just see more shit to take from us all.
This slimeball apologised for his behaviour the other day saying it was due to drugs or some such. Seems like he can't keep off them.
yes i did, sure did...but every time i come to this site and see the crap posted, it gets my dander up...i am straight as an arrow right now, sue me.
Watch what?
THEY HAVE NO ELECTRICITY TO WATCH ANYTHING!
Ukranian operatives just blew up the grid and Crimea is being told "you may have no electricity for the entire winter. Prepare for the worst"
Putin is in waaaaaaay over his head. Thousands of truck drivers blocking streets in Putins home town, Ukraine, Russian people starting to murmur the word Afghanistan with a question mark behind it, further Syria on and on and on...
---
Authorities in Crimea have declared a state of emergency after anti-Russian saboteurs blew up major electrical transmission towers, cutting power to almost 2 million people amid escalating tensions around the Black Sea peninsula.
Any you celebrate this shit? I know you are the Anti-Putin avatar of the month, but I see no pleasure in anyone's pain. The war is about to go hot and many many people will die. I see nowhere Russia fomenting this shit. Can you imagine what we would do if Russia started fucking with Mexico or Japan? The PNAC doctrine is about to be fully unleashed and assholes like you celebrate it. FUCK YOU. I have kids, cocksucker. Same goes for the rest of you paid fuckin trolls. Jeebus Christ. Can't you fuckers leave the world alone and be happy with things as they are? No. You need the whole motherfucker. Now? More refugees, more strife, more death, more hell and you wish it to be. I hope you get properly fucked. All of you. I'm sick of this shit.
I don't celebrate any of this shit. I was trying to make light of Einsteins comment above about football season.
But lets face facts, Putin has put his foot in it all over the fucking place and now its coming back to haunt him. Don't lie! You KNOW thats a fact and this tidal wave of bullshit by all these cocksuckers of Putin needs to be shouted down. The guy is the most dangerous person on this planet and -- YOUR kids are in danger because of him!
Roll back the clock to Putins first term. He was rational. The world welcomed him open arms. Then he went weird and tried to snatch back power, money hell about everything and caused complete chaos. PUTIN DID IT TO HIMSELF AND NOW THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR IT -- AS YOU WORRY ABOUT YOUR KIDS!
If you want to tell someone to fuck off -- fine. You know exactly who that should be.
you've shown yourself a jackoff many times alpha. You celebrate it because you are a pussy behind a keyboard. Why don't you go fight tough guy? You're a cunt with a keyboard
Takes one to know one...
... and as alpha descends into Pee Wee Herman mode, perhaps the trolls are best to be ignored by all.
Agreed. After I posted my angst I went and played with my daughters. Much more productive.
Listen up you dumb fucking Latvian
My football commemt was Obama would greenlight that fat fuck Porkyshenko to launch his next widows and orphans winter drive while the dumbass Americans are in their couch lock tryptophan coma
Now break time is over dont you have a sister to pimp to the Euro porn industry for another sack of potatos to peel
Typical slur from a slimy Estonian.
All fingers point to USSA/ISISrael ZIO-SCUMMM* culpability with its puppeteer's hand firmly up Turkeys anal passage.
(SCUMMM* - Satanic Cabal Underwriting Mass-Murder & Mayhem)
What, no drinking of babies blood from skulls?
Lol...
WOW! Four ZIO-SCUMMMMers on the ONE hook!
Do you all "work" from the same basement? ;)))
LOL, for a new yawk scum sucker you are pretty uppity. when the towel heads come for your shitty hole in the ground, i will give a golf clap.
In LeninGrad? Nhet! BTW, not sure that your contract to klean those Kosher toilets will be renewed, as your eating privileges seems to be a waste of table scraps.
Rhodes Scholar you obviously aren't. Zzzzzzzzzzzz
all four fingers?
LOL, yawk yawk yawk...biggest anti-intellectual of them all pulling out all the stops ain't ya, yawk yawk
"Russia which claims the Hmeimim airbase radar shows the attacking Turkish plane violating Syrian airspace"
BBBBBWWWWAAAAHHHHAAAA!!!!!!!
The problem with Putin, is he thinks that he can lie through his teeth to the world and the world will a) believe it and b) have no way to verify his lies -- unfortunately like the good people of Russia...
This is just getting embarrassing...
Actually it's more credible than the NATO submission.
The Russian evidence shows real time tracking of several radar targets, Russian and otherwise, it shows the border, and it doesn't look like the Russian plane strayed within Turkish airspace.
The NATO evidence is a radar track yes, superimposed on top of what's clearly a terrain map taken from MS Powerpoint or something. The radar track could easily have been bumped up a km or so to make it look more like there was a real incursion. And when you compare the realtime vs NATO, it looks like exactly that is what happened.
"The Russian evidence shows..."
There you go again!
NOBODY beleives the "Russian cough cough evidence"!
Putin the "200 BILLION, Chess Playing, Major, FSB Disinformation Officer" has burned the world one too many times friend. Nobody beleives a damned thing coming from Putins Russia anymore. Its so outrageous that now its just embarrasing...
China (and a few others) will weigh in on this and that I can assure you. Just remember, the only ass dot gov will try to save is their own, not yours. Does cannon fodder ring a bell? Was that free phone worth it?
China?
BBBWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAA!!!!
The Chinese have Putin right where they want him. Full stop.
You got a free computer and an EBT card? Hows that cadillac gov health insurance working for you?
ya, just like you do jackie
She has even better tits than Latina Lover!
heh, nice one
Fucking IDIOT !
olivah, fucking azzhat...
want some more porridge?
Meaning what?
That is the stupidest fucking metric ever.
Suppose some new Russian troll comes to ZH. We shouldn't take their posts as serious for how long? Besides never I mean...
Anyhow, the logic of parading how long someone has been here is beyond dumb.
https://www.reddit.com/user/Alphahammer/comments/
Great work Sherlock. I don't go to Reddit. Ever. Ya ever think that a generic name like "alphahammer" is never used elsewhere?
don't you usually go by dicksucker
"We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,”
How much you want to bet the Russian Navy is about to shoot down a "threat" from the Russian Air Force?
Anyone?
Thanks for the heads up /s.
Friendly Fire? Yeah, because Russia has a long history of that as opposed to NATO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_friendly_fire_incidents#War_in_Afg...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_no-fly_zones
Yea because Russia always boasts about their military fuck ups and then quickly posts them to Wikipedia...
You have no idea how many Russian friendly fire incidents take place. Neither do I. Thats the point.
Turkey's airspace was violated 114 times in one year by Greek, Israeli, and Italian aircraft. They somehow avoided shooting any down.
"Air space violations are incidents that happen almost every day, and are resolved in a matter of minutes within international law," the Turkish General Staff said in a statement.
Six airplanes violated Turkish airspace last week alone, the General Staff said, of which none were shot down and left Turkey's airspace after they were warned by Turkish personnel.
A violation of one to two kilometers is accepted as "natural" given the speed of aircraft, the statement said. This year's violations of Turkish airspace lasted between 20 seconds and nine minutes, which showed "airspace violations can be resolved by warning and interceptions," the statement said."
Turkey could have downed 114 planes for airspace violations: ArmyThanks for that! They are clearly protecting something...
Israeli? Are you Gordon Duff?
Germany has been very quiet lately - Perhaps they are getting ready to jump ship !
Angular Jerkel is suspiciously absent from the news.
She's been a bit preoccupied washing the feet of all those young male Muslim 'refugees.'
Sucking Nuttyhau's dick, more likely.
Don't you? Yes, you do otherwise you'd not survive because Jews are the Masters of the Universe. Bow pig
Jewish porn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK6qUMmKaA0
Merkel was busy with a burkha fitting
Putin...are you fighting a war on two fronts?
Tsk tsk!!
How many fronts are the rest doing? 5 or more?
A war on two fronts?
He's got a massive "front" coming at him right at home. The Russian people are starting to come unglued abouyt all this madness and the damned Russian economy and they are starting to shout out.
One big question being asked is this "How does spending MILLIONS per day in Syria benefit the Russian economy and people?"
---
Russian truckers stage mass protests against new transport tax
Hundreds of truck drivers from across Russia are protesting against a new law, which will introduce a transport tax for heavy goods vehicles. The protesters pledge they will block federal highways on November 15 if the planned tariff is not scrapped.
His approval rating is in the 80s at least (and that is not only just in russia). Look at Obama's, Natanyahu's or Erdogan's (snicker). Something will come unglued and it aint what you think, who unglued what economy and by what bullshit means). I will just downvote you from here on out.
Russia release real time tracking video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Cs8jdJKSGo
Compared to this, it looks to me like the NATO track has been "pushed north" a couple of km.
If I were Russia I would strike hard and fast at Turkey. Not even wait 24 hours. Let the neoclowns know they aren't fucking with Libya or Afghanistan. The Nato pussies will back down, they are just trying to make Putin look bad at home. Classic destabilizing bullshit, if he strikes back he's a hot head if he doesn't he's weak. They are going to fuck with him anyways so may as well get a piece of turkish ass
If the Turks get a few sq km of "safe zones" from Russian ally Syria, Russian ally Armenia should take Kars and Mount Ararat.
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.
All the Turkmen rebels firing at the pilots while parachuting and Turkish gov officials who had a hand in this signed their own death warrants today.
Once the bodies of Russians are accounted for no one will live in that area. Perhaps they shall drop leaflets before the land is roasted, perhaps not.
... it is hard to imagine. Firing missiles from inside their own airspace to hit a plane inside Syria...
How can Turkey be so stupid...
Stupid is as stupid does.
"How can Turkey be so stupid?"
By snorting too much Ziocaine.
This is a nice fully loaded ship... Russia and China should built 100 of them. Good profit for Russia as well.
Also those little Russian coastal ships pack a punch too with their 1100km + cruise missiles, need a few hundred of them too.
All those dormant factories in China... the workers there need something to do, as well as Russians.... start building!
Somehow I sense not many Turkmen will be in Syria much longer. They had better pack up and leave while they can. Dropping bombs from planes is just a love tap. There are better ways to bring them to justice.
hopefully they will find asylum in Saudi like Idi Amin did. Then let er rip.
Russian military briefing showing track of Su-24 flight (red) and track of F-16 (blue). Syrian border (purple) is not crossed by Su-24
At 2;25 Russian track indicator for F-6 changes from yellow to red as it crosses border into Syrian airspace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaTHHq-op_U
This is now clearly a pre-meditated shootdown of the Russian aircraft. The Turks also did not inform the Syrians or Russians that al-Nusra/FSA/Turkmen were in the area. That is why the RUssians used unprotected SAR helicopters.
AWACS saw this too.
Unprotected helicopters? One video shows a Mi24 Hind which is a flying tank.
Whatever it was, it was downed by small arms fire, then your ISIS buddies destroyed it with a TOW.
Edit: There were two SAR helicopters - an Mi 24P and an Mi 8/17. It was the Mi 8/17 that was shot down.
http://www.russiadefence.net/t4709p45-please-dont-overplay-that-airplane...
Sure hope things hold together for a few more weeks. I'm almost ready to bug out to my place in a remote part of the Pacific Northwest. I'll not be coming back to my home near two airforce bases.
Congratulations to Turkey on their recognition as a legitimate target in a war against terror.
Many of the postings here are intellectually vacuous. In reality you have a "he said, she said situation". I lean towards the Russian version as there is no mention of evasive action or retaliation suggesting that the Russians were not aware of any hostile threat posed the Turkish Jets and were caught completely off guard. We are told that thte Turks gave repeated warnings. If this were the case then you could only conclude that the Russian pilots were brain dead, to either not quickly depart the "violated" airspace immediately or alternatively "lock and load". Instead it appears that the Russian pilots were unaware of any threat.
If we assume that the Russians violated Turkish airspace, the Turks would be well aware that this was not a hostile threat. Turkey is protected by NATO and the primary mission of Russia is to protect its ally Syria. Expanding their mission into Turkey without permission would open up the doors to direct intervention by NATO forces. This is unlike the US who has been operating "uninvited" in Syrian airspace in violation of "international law" for more than a year along with Israel. If you do not rely on MSM for your information you will find that Russia has constantly respected international law. My question is if, and I mean if, the Russians violated the Turkish border, why were the Russians not given the benefit of the doubt and allowed to take up the grievance through diplomatic channels, particularly when the stakes are so high? Is this intentional or the result of a rogue element in the chain of command? I think that both sets of radar tapes need to be analyzed.
Remember the western banking system is under attack by Russia, China, Iran and Syria. They all want to get away from the petro dollar which is the backbone of the American Empire which, incidently, is the 16# hammer in NATO, another globalist appendage The globalists are desperate to preserve the ponzi financial system that they control. They are in the process of bringing down the US and Europe and do not need a competing system that BRICS and Syria and Iran are supporting to stand in the way or offer an alternative. Anyone who does not have a Globalist controlled central bank is viewed as a threat. Lybia is one neighbor that found this out. Syria is another country who wants gold for oil and the punishment is regime change. Turkey is globalist controlled. Furthermore Asad refused to allow a pipeline to pass thro his country that would provide gas to Europe in competition with Russian supplies. This makes America nervous as it makes Europe reliant on Russia and strengthens economic ties between Russia and Europe.
Ultimately what you are looking at is the preparatory work for WW3. Now it is a proxy war where other powers are fighting on behalf of the super powers. The stage is rapidly shifting as we speak. You have at least 4 nations involved in the fight; Israel, the US, Russia, and France. All have differing agendas. 3 of these are nuclear states and we are unsure if China has a dog in this fight. Working for the globalists you have the psychopathic neo-cons and hawks like Victoria Nuland and Ash Carter who replaced the last Sec. of defence, Chuck Hagel, who was too balanced and rational for the powers to be. Let's not leave out wackos like Lindsay Graham and McCain the insane. Factor in a world economy that is falthering and you have a recipe for nuclear war and by God you might just have it. Ironically most Americans still believe they control the governent. The people are powerless to stop WW3. Control is in the hands of the psychopathic controllers who control the psychopathic politicians who "represent you."
You need to look no further than to analyze who is looking for a fight. America has parked missiles in Russia's backyard to "protect Europe from rogue nations like Iran." Folks that believe this still believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. The US has followed the Zbig" strategy of encirclement of Russia, just as it has began to provoke China with its Asian Pivot plan and provoking China by sailing within the territorial boundaries of China's islands. Now put the shoe on the other foot and assume that Russia placed missiles on Cuban territory, this time, to protect Cuba from rogue states like Venezula. Imagine the rational response from the Pentagon. Consider who has the cooler head to repeated provocation.
This has all the makings of an FDR / Stimson strategy to get the Japanese to attack the US. History doesn't always repeat itself but if it doesn't it rhymes. Happy Thanksgiving day.
What about Iranian involvement in Syria? It is quite considerable to say the least.
All taking a 'shot' from the Aytalloh Kumfrommany. So many Bacha Bazi Mohammedens and Putzin proles.
So much for sleeping tonight.
soda+nose=spray
+100 Well said!
Fed is still printing a Trillion a month - It's WW3 or BUST ! If China can collapse the Western Financial System there will be NO war - I think they may have to collapse their OWN economy to do it though !
Fed is still printing a Trillion a month - It's WW3 or BUST ! If China can collapse the Western Financial System there will be NO war - I think they may have to collapse their OWN economy to do it though !
I don't have access to communications or radar plots from either involved nation, or a third nation. So, I have no rational way of forming an educated judgment. Regarding the Turks, I don't necessarily place credence with them, especially considering their government's actions, domestically and diplomatically, during the past 11 years. I might say that if the Russian flight path map is accurate, then the Turks are needing a severe consequence, like shooting down a Turkish Air Force plane over the Bosporus Straits that got 'too close' to a Russian ship passing through said Straits. I highly doubt that the Turkish pilots have the authority to shoot down planes without some authorization, at the very least from their unit commander.
So it's not a fishing boat....aah
It would be harder to see if it were bluuue....duh (not a scientist)
or red with flames and a mouth if you want people to see it and be afraid very afraid.
My free advice to Putin - don't shutdown your Turkish gas supply - just have a lot of outages - kind of like flaky internet service.
Here is the war crimes list (Rule 54) That Israel and Turkey, both of which who have repeatedly broken and gotten away with (with the UN stamp of approval). Russia seems to make good on not committing war crimes.
https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule54
I do not see Russia even thinking of any action as one of "saving face". Saving face is for some diplomatic gaffe or misuse of words during a press conference. Shoot down a plane? I do not think this is about "saving face"
Did Turkey act without first informing other NATO members first?
Are you serious? They are in constant communication.
http://www.aco.nato.int/exercise-steadfast-cobalt-tests-natos-communicat...
Nuke Syria?
Magog is Turkey.
Genesis 10:2-5
Says who?
Actually Magog is the tribe of Ashkenazi Jews. Magog was the uncle of Ashkenaz according to Genesis 10:3 But since modern Turkey has been controlled by Donmeh crypto-Jews since Ataturk, the Turkish government is indeed an arm of Magog. Read "The Secret Jews" by Rabbi Joachim Prinz where he describes how crypto-Jews ran the Young Turk movement and created modern Turkey.
If the douchebag Neo Cons manage to get a war going out there, they will get one going back here in North America.
It will be Americans versus the traitorous swine United Statesians.
"Russia 24 News reported on Tuesday that according to the Russian Ministry of Defense the Turkish plane which shot down Russian Su-24 in Syria has violated the Syrian border, according to objective control data."
Okay, we have NATO saying Russia violated NATO airspace and were shoot down in self defense. Russia, as you see above, says different.
What we have now is the same old he said, she said. NATO will lie to cover Turkey. Russia now faces all of NATO if they retaliate.
How much more of a threat of World War do we need?
You must mean France 24.
edit, I'll be damned you are right!
Jack don't play.
Let me argue firmly on both sides.
First, there is no way this was "self-defense", but maybe enforcing a border doesn't really have to be.
Second, what was the pilot thinking, he must have known he was cutting over that protruding bit of Turkish sovereignty. Now, it may be the pilot didn't even plan his route, but some Russian officer back on the ground did, that's probably more the Russian way. In which case, well, we'll just have to see how it plays out.
On the third hand, I wonder if they've already been making a habit out of little incursions like that without consequence, even without warning. Could be a lot we don't know.
It stinks in any case, just trying to analyze it even so.
Mr Burton...you are right again! But...I don't think it's he said she said. Myriads of people babble about Putin lying all the time. someone should come forth with proof of him lying. All the time he has been in office I have seen him waiting for evidence to be brought forth before he then states facts. When I tink about Gladio and Gladio 2....NATO can not be trusted period. Gladio should be a required study (researched) for all westerners. How well intended programs wind up totally out of control and are still allowed to continue. Russia will retaliate. The question is when and how. Either this was a well planed attack by Turkey or the biggest fluke of the 21th century. Two Turkish jets just happened to be at the exact right spot at exactly the right moment? This sounds like a Clint Eastwood movie.
There will be NO military retaliation - Russia are a class above that - Putin will provide evidence and declare this act a WAR crime - He will seek to prosecute the perpetrators under 'International Law' just like he is doing in the Ukraine - Russia will close ALL Syrian borders - Arm the Kurds - ANY violation of Syrian territory will lead to severe consequences - Hollande will be told tomorrow when he visits Russia to GTFO out of Syria - This is the way Putin does things !
Between the collapse of open borders,the Paris attacks (Brussels terr.HQ?), Sinai Russian crash
and now this,I think we will see the end of NATO.I can't see the Germans or French going
into a land war over this.
NATO nearly fragmented over the Bosnian wars.People will start to ask questions regarding the expense
of maintaining their own standing army,or hiring someone else's army.
Turkey has NATO membership but I can't see anyone endorsing this "ambush" event using US built
and supplied aircraft,and shooting down choppers clearly on SAR operations.
All this to get rid of an elected regime? Water? Oil? NattyGas pipeline? The costs to Europe to resettle
migrants/refugees and the protest demos/rise of fascist right recruitment? All worth it? WW3?
The French are too involved in the Centarl African Republic and other colonial states to quit. They rely on 'protection revenue" generated from those states.
14 African Countries Forced by France to Pay Colonial Tax For the Benefits of Slavery and Colonizationhttp://www.siliconafrica.com/france-colonial-tax/
Trouble is you're being rational
"People will start to ask questions regarding the expense of maintaining their own standing army,or hiring someone else's army."
I consider myself a conservative and see nothing wrong with a SMALL standing professional army for DEFENSE.
it has to be small because any standing army is a constant threat to the civilian government or could be used by that same government against the people. Regional militia shoudl carry the bulk of the defence burden.
I am COMPLETELY against any foreign deployments for ANY reason. Your army is for YOUR defence, period. At your boarders, period.
NATO should have been disbanded in 1993.
Shit....
Squid
Afghanistan 2.0 with a host country inviting Russia and the US supplying military weapons and equipment to Mujahideen mercenaries to inflict damage and murder masses.
Are participating countries that lackey, their citizens that morally vacant (white lives matter)? Why no opposition to such EVIL, or has the West always been EVIL with their slavery, Imperialism, colonialism for half a millennia.
#richcronypsycopathlivesmatter
and the europeans are all demilitarized
so it is us against russia
and a new marshall plan afterwards
Furthermore, as the Russian Ministry of Defense explained, going forward, any Turkish plane that enters Syrian airspace will be fair game.
That's the right approach, except instead of saying "Turkey", it should say "NATO" or "any and all military assets not approved to be in Syria by the government of Syria".
That effectively ends the invasion of Syria by NATO, and the fiction called "international law" that all parties claim to recognize CLEARLY designates any and all military assets within Syria or Syrian airspace are in violation of international law and intentional acts of war.
-----
Also note in the drawing above that absurd downward projection of Turkey territory into Syria. That is Syria territory, NOT Turkey territory, and all claims to the contrary are simply "lies as usual" by members of NATO. There was a ZH article about this farse within the last month or so.
The one significant mistake Russia made was to suggest members of NATO collaborate with Russia to eliminate terrorist targets in Syria. Why so? Because that invites other nations to fly into Syria, which Russia has no authority to offer.
"That's the right approach, except instead of saying "Turkey", it should say "NATO" or "any and all military assets not approved to be in Syria by the government of Syria"."
That's what I'd like to see too. Problem is enforcing it and the risks involved.
I know. But the predators-that-be in USSA and NATO will just shift what they're doing a bit unless Russia takes a stand that prevents that.
Already the USSA and NATO are funding, training, supplying and tasking terrorists to do their dirty work. This lets cretins like Obomber and fiends carry out wars without getting permission from the other parts of their government (congress, etc).
And so, the only way to effectively secure the Syria situation is to say EVERYONE who is not in Syria with the permission of the Syrian government is a target [after some date in the near future].
Then Syria, Russia and any other Syria ally with permission can attack and retaliate without hesitation or coordination. And as we know, any "coordination" with the USSA or NATO is immediately relayed to the mercenaries and terrorists working for the USSA and NATO, giving them time to vacate the targets before the Syrian/Russian/other bombs fall.
Yes, it is a risk. But the predators-that-be in the USSA and NATO have made clear they will adopt any and every unethical and illegal trick in the book without regard for international law. This leaves Syria, Russia and allies in a position where the ONLY policy that can work is excluding and/or destroying all invaders.
Not fun, a bit scary, but that's the only option that works. So Russia should either "go home and let Syria fall to the CIA/USSA/NATO/terrorists"... or defend Syria at least through the next set of elections in Syria.
I don't see any other viable military options. And I have to assume the Putin also realizes the only two viable military choices are those I outlined above, the only other alternative being Syria becomes a fiasco for Russia like Vietnam was for the USSA. I have to assume (and hope) that Putin recognizes this, and makes one of the two potentially viable choices.
I should add that usually the best way to respond to atrocities like those being foisted by USSA and NATO is via taking some completely unrelated action. For example, Russia and China could dump ALL the USSA debt they're holding AND introduce a fully redeemable gold-gram currency. Perhaps at the same time only accept gold as payment for their energy and natural resource products AND perhaps cut off exports to Ukraine and Turkey.
Since the goods Russia ships belong to Russia until they are paid for, taking these actions is not aggression and not violation of international law. So while it would hurt USSA and NATO vastly more than losing an airplane now and then hurts Russia, it leaves Russia looking ethical and the USSA and NATO being in obvious and gross violation of international law AND murdering millions of people.
Another possible response would be for Russia [and China] to veto EVERY motion that comes to a vote in the UN... until the USSA and NATO stop their endless gross violations of international law and UN resolutions. This would be interesting, but I'm less sure how this would play out.
Thanks for that. I agree with you totally and I'm sure Putin is weighing up carefully as we speak how he can get revenge on those who shot down his SU-24 and his A321. We will see some action at some time.
But none of us should be blind to the fact that any ratcheting up of the lowish-level confrontation between Russia and NATO will easily and quickly escalate into a wider war. Perhaps he already has his military preparing for the inevitable.
It is getting very close to the point when people in the West must get out on the streets and hold their governments and Western MSM to account.
OR lady honstann,
Just Russia and its friends fuck'em where ever they are,ISIS moderate jehadist all in the teritory of sorya, destroy them fast like you are doing right now, mean while play the west game being smart ass than them, when they say 'we are at war with terorist ISIS bla bla' in a fake talk creating false flag attacks just like they did in paris last week,invite them 'join us brothers, let us exterminate them' knowing they will never join russia....well Doing so,
Russia knows it will cost them something like this plane shot down by turky(US/NATO pupet proxy), last time their plane crash carring 240 citizens@ Egypt senya, etc
why all of this sacrifice ? well it is obvious Russians are doing good job of blowing the cover ups of ISIS drama are the work of these satanist white US/NATO/EU all are in bed together, and as time goes by these liers knew they are running out of their terriorist proxy groups all being killed, wounded or fled in to the blue... that is where they will come to Turky,Saudi, Israel or EU to hide, then the bomb will blast in their hand, may be this scares them.
So the US and its buddy buddies are running out of option that is why they are making such bold provocation to Russia so that they will find an excuse to start war while people around the world is waking up to the truth, and seeing russia as crediable more they must do something.
so far i salute Russian's doing clever job in checking those bad ass evils protector of 'Demon-Cracy" 3 steps a head at least.Unfortunatly,Rusians will pay a price for that.I say to Russia our hearts is with you, if you have to give it up, let it be "Even steven" .
This isn't the Turkey people wanted for Thanksgiving.
USS Liberty their ass.
One Tsar Bomba can cook a lot of Turkey.
Happy fucking Thanksgiving.
-Vlad
Q. Why don’t Russians celebrate Thanksgiving?
A. Because Putin hates Turkey!
You'll never see a 50 megaton weapon used, ever. Nice dream, but even Putin wouldn't do it.
every week more extreme violence, now fighter planes not just street fighters. Most serious issue is that major nuclear states (Iran/Russia} are fighting against NATO/turkey/Saudi. This could be a major war within seconds.
Turkey played power politics with Russia, saying "Go Home Russki".
That is the meaning of the shoot down.
The fact is that the Saudis and Turks are the main money and guns behind various Islamist movements...
...Including ISIS.
Russia's "fault" inasmuch as there is one, has been to exercise tactically agressive moves intended to militarily intimidate. These were routine with the Superpower Mega-economy Soviet Union, representing 500 million souls. It is a fault because the Soviet Union could do things that Russia by itself cannot. Hence Turkey feels able to assert itself against Russia in a way that it would not dare vs the Soviet Union.
This should have been nothing more than a terse diplomatic note between countries.
Now we have an escalating mess
US Military General Tom McInerney provides analysis, says map shows Turkey was 'overly aggressive' in shooting down aircraft
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4630118119001/radar-track-shows-russia-jets-p...
Wow, even Fox News is dissing Turkey.
Let's start WWIII to destroy US and allies then remove US from UNSC and move the UN to a neutral country.
You don't get laid much, do you?
Move the UN to Moscow. That would better reflect the voting members votes since circa 1950. No such thing as "neutral." The "Non-Aligned" nations of the UN were hardly neutral throughout the evil history of the UN.
Erdogan and his wife are Donmeh crypto Jews tied to heroin trafficking.
http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2011/11/turkeys-erdogan-is-jewish.html
God help us, and he will Neptune home in Pisces ALL are unmasked.
Pathetic, sick monster.
Don't you get fined for speaking ill against a fellow tribesman?
Me?
haha...I am not his tribesman.
Yeah I am a pathetic sick monster who is dedicated to exposing you satanic snakes.
I wear that badge proudly...yuck, yuck,yuck
kill me if you can...:)
Baby, I'll just love you to death.
falconflight you are a sick lonely angry old man
you should go out and take a walk into the wood its ok if dont come back
Read "The Secret Jews" by Rabbi Joachim Prinz, who proudy details how modern Turkey was founded by Donmeh crypto-Jews pretending to be Muslim. is this respected Jewish scholar a pathetic, sick monster too?
The ones really squawking behind the scenes are the foreign and not so foreign investors in those oil caravans and platforms and tankers.. and ships owned by Bilal and Baruk, the names sound almost demonic, of the Erdogan family as they watch their investments go up in smoke with each passing day. After exposure by Putin of who Alibaba and the 40 thieves really are I imagine its more than Isis running from bombs and cover. This event was not unexpected and wont distract the Kremlin from its focus. The 500 tow missles, one used to down a Russian rescue chopper..simply means the games of bombing some and not others..as a courtesy is over..and Russia will simply bomb them all..and flatten the rest like Raqqa..Its original focus..
Russia may give a slap but he will not take hard action against a NATO member. He may shoot a few planes down or a helicopter but that is it.
He knew he was pushing his luck hitting turkeys allies near the border - and he got a small slap.
Russia will not go against NATO.
They would lose. Badly. Quickly. Horribly.
Russia could wipe out ZATO in a long weekend.
You are so dreaming it is amusing.
Every tactical advantage is on NATOs side.
Putins only threat is nuclear because Ina. Conventional war he hasn't the finance, the equipment or tactical advantage in any way.
If war bonds are issued you'll see the wager go to the US.
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What was the point of that?
If you don't lick Putzin's putz or practice Bacha Bazi...you're some iteration of Jooo, Jew, Zio, Crypto Jew, Khazar, Zionist...you get the point. No point in debating these Gulag Camp guards.
Gotcha. Thanks.
Ah, isn't it sweet when hasbara trolls find each other? So so sweet.
Ah, isn't it sweet when fellow hasbara trolls meet and find love? LOL.
Anyone who doesn't kiss the arse of the zio scum, or doesn't swalllow hook line and sinker the zio msm media definition of global affairs is a putin lover.
Good luck with your love affair. LOL.
They couldn't even build toilets that worked when they hosted the Olympics of Sochi.
LOL. Most likely you could not find Sochi on a map.
Which chip did you have installed? Fox news or MSNBC?
It's not in Russia's interest to break itself taking on NATO. They're much better off waiting until it collapses under its own internal conflicts and contradictions. Give it a decade, and it will form its own circular firing squad.
I listened to Obama's press conference today and watched CNN, Fox, read Reuters... What fine zionist leadership America has... deceit at every turn
This won't end until the White House is burned to the ground. I want to hang that photo on my wall.
Sperm count almost zero for the slaaaaavic 'man.' Demographically the sickest in the 'developed' world. Didn't your pappy beat to death hundreds at various Glavnoye Upravleniye Ispravitelno-trudovykh Lagerey?