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Turkish F-16s Shoot Down Russian Su-24 Warplane Near Syria Border
Moments ago a big black geopolitical swan landed when newswires lit up with headlines that a Turkish F-16 shot down what was initially said to be an unidentified warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkey's airspace on Tuesday, a Turkish military official said, but the nationality of the downed aircraft was not immediately clear.
The Russian jet crashed in the mountainous Jabal Turkmen area of Latakia, where air strikes and fighting between rebels and Syrian government forces were reported earlier on Tuesday.
According to Reuters, Turkish F16s warned the jet repeatedly over the airspace violations before shooting it down.
A Russian Su024 aircraft goes down in Kizildag region of Turkey's
Hatay province, close to the Syrian border, on November 24, 2015
Footage from private broadcaster Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it. The plane went down in area known by Turks as "Turkmen Mountain" in northern Syria near the Turkish border, Haberturk said.
Minutes later, the Turkish Lira sank like a rock while risk assets across Europe tumbled when the Turkish presidency confirmed that, as many had expected, the jet was a Russian fighter jet, which the Russian Defense Ministry later said was a Su-24. The Su-24 jet was warned after violating Turkish airspace and was then downed in line with Turkey’s rules of engagement, Anadolu says, citing officials at the presidency.
According to Todays' Szaman, in a statement, the Turkish military said a plane of unknown origin was shot down after it violated the Turkish airspace despite repeated warnings. The aircraft was warned 10 times in 5 minutes, the military said.
It said two Turkish F-16s were involved in the shooting down of the jet.
However, while moments ago the Russian defense ministry confirmed that the shot down plane was indeed one of its own in what will be deemed a clear act of aggression by a NATO-member country against Russia, the Russian defense ministry said it could prove the aircraft was over Syria for the entire flight.
The ministry added that the pilots ejected, according to preliminary info, and that Russia trying to determine their fates, Interfax reports. Interfax also adds that the plane was probably downed by fire from ground, and that it had been flying at flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters.
Meanwhile, Turkish media reported that either one or both of the pilots may have been captured by Turkmen forces located in the region.
- TURKMEN FORCES CAPTURE 2 PILOTS OF DOWNED RUSSIAN JET: AHABER
Although there is confusion whether both or just one pilot was captured
- SYRIA TURKMEN FORCES SAY 1 PILOT OF DOWNED PLANE CAPTURED: AA
Especially with a YouTube video spread showing what is alleged to be one of the pilots dead
More:
A CNN Türk reporter in Yaylada? said a helicopter was hovering over the scene of the crash, apparently to pick up the pilots, but that opposition fighters were preventing it. The reporter later said one of the pilots was at the hands of Turkmen opposition fighters.
Prime Minister Davuto?lu has been briefed by the General Staff and ordered the Turkish Foreign Ministry to contact NATO, UN and relevant countries about the downed plane.
This huge escalation in the Syrian proxy war, one where a NATO country has openly attacked a non-NATO country (if Russia is correct and it did not violate Turkish airspace), comes after Turkey called this week for a U.N. Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighboring Syria, and last week Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest the bombing of their villages.
Ankara has traditionally expressed solidarity with Syrian Turkmens, who are Syrians of Turkish descent.
We await a formal reaction by Russia, one which we doubt will be calm, cool and collected and may in fact see the Turkish aggression as an act of war if indeed the Russian Su never entered Turkish territory.
Here is the official statement by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov via Sputnik:
"So far, we have not heard the reason for the crash of our attack aircraft from the Defense Ministry. We know for sure that the aircraft was in Syrian airspace, over the territory of Syria," Peskov said, noting that the ministry's first statement on the crash was based on preliminary information.
"It would be wrong to make some kind of assumptions right now, to make any statements until we have the complete picture. Therefore, we just have to be patient. This is a very serious incident, but again, it is impossible to say anything without complete information," he added.
"It can be assumed that the president… will touch upon this issue during the talk with the king, and that there will be some kind of a reaction," Peskov told reporters when asked whether Putin would make a statement on the matter.
Elsewhere, the Turkish army released what it claims is a radar path analysis of the downed jet's flight path:
At first blush it is not clear how the airspace violating jet could have received "10 warnings" in the several seconds it took to cross what the Turks claim was the offending Turkish territory, especially since the plane ultimately crashed in Syrian territory.
Updates to follow.
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BULLISH!!!!
Oh fuck me. This is TBTB testing Vlad to see what he does.
I am sure he has a reaction already planned for a situation such as this. I imagine it will be financial, and be a *HUGE* sum of money. If the Turks refuse, then Russian jets get "free fire" on any Turkish jets in the area.
God be with the pilots on both sides.
No Haus, Fuck us All would appear to be far more appropriate.
Unfortunately, the roaches have their hidey holes to scurry off to while we all have a front row seat to the ultimate show without SPF 10 Billion sun block.
So Turkey shoots down Russian pilots bombing ISIS over Syrian territory.
So much for all that ISIS horseshit the Western media has been pumping.
Whoops, Apocalypse.
Two things need to happen here.
NATO needs to be disbanded as an anachronism of the cold war.
EU needs to disband as a failed project.
"Polonium tea, Mr. Erdogan?"
FARGIN' WAR!!!!
Does this mean there will be no Turkey for Thanksgiving?
Har-har!
We need to be rid of the Americans.
Did North Korea take over Turkey?
This insane shoot down seems very NORK-like.
Turkish news reports both crew dead :-(
Russian forces at alert, Engels 2 alert.
Turkey just put herself on a straight path towards a world of hurt:
http://goo.gl/VhZdyZ
The Islamic extremists of war-like Turkey have a long hisotry of disliking the peace loving Christians of the Russia.
Americans, it is time to PANIC! WW3 already started!
http://goo.gl/T62Tr8
I'd give a Viking funeral to that dead pilot (RIP) where he lay with a thermobaric bomb from high altitude.
We need to be rid of the Americans.
Don't look at US. We didn't do it.
Yeah, this is bad.
A Russian jet at full speed would probably be in Turkish airspace less than 15 seconds... the border 'finger' they have to annoyingly go around is rather small, so even if they did inadvertently go through it... Turks would have to have a pretty effing fast trigger finger
Russian jets have probably been skirting through it for weeks not and the Turks are pissed off like an angry old man on his lawn watching kids ride their bikes to close
so they had to have had their F16s already there, impossible to scramble them to intercept in the short distance a Russian jet could possibly accidently be in Turk air space.... Turks were probably waiting there to see if the Russians skipped into their lawn for a second and bam...
stupid.... i'll be surprised if even obamanuts defends the turks for something this dumb lol
Good theory, but don't forget that, Nato at the begining of Russian Air strike back in a month accused Russia violating turkish air space one of nato member, even if it was false.For that BS Russian's answer was by showing their capacity of Sending 30 cruse misiael fired from Russian War ship all gone under radar at knight via Iran and Iraq and shot the enemy. For w/c the BS of violating air space stoped but replaced by other lie that some of the misael droped on Iran...you remember those drama
On light of this, Russia willn't do such mistake even slightly, as NATO/USA are notoruries on fabricating such alligations.So my view is this another dare me lie bullshit prpoganda.
Further, for what reason would Russia need for entering Turkish air space? Russians only need to guard/patrol the border. This is clearly a retaliation for Russia whacking those oil tanker-trucks. I suspect that the US State Department is going to be working pretty hard here trying to come up with a spin that'll cover Turkey's ass as well as continue the charade of the two of them (and NATO) fighting AGAINST ISIS. So, yeah, this will likely produce one huge whopper of a lie.
This had to have been a total surprise to Russia. Might be the opportunity they've been looking forward to for disclosing some really nasty shit on the true supporters of ISIS.
AND... just as I predicted:
Putin Accuses Turkey Of "Backstabbing", Funding ISIS, Sees "Serious Consequences" To Tieshttp://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/putin-accuses-turkey-backstabbi...
US is a friend of no one. After Pakistan it is time for Erdogan to learn a lesson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-JA1ffd5Ms
‘Russia Studying American Cookbooks Intently for Turkey Roasting Tips’
Chapter 3: Stuffing
Maybe they just followed the trucks full of oil ISIS is trying to fence to the nearest shady pawn shop.
A russian jet at full speed, would have to take a path 90+ km long to be in their airspace for 5 minutes. The only way such a path would fit in the entire area is if the plane travelled north to south from north of Iskenderun.
Putin: I can see Constantinople from my house.
Putin: I can see the mushroom cloud rising from what used to be Constantinople from my house.
Time has come to show allah snackbaring real hell . RIP
In perfect time for Thanksgiving. I hope Russia cooks that Turkey.
They can always chase it out by their fighter , I am sure the Russian pilot would simply flee away if they find a fighter at its tail.
Russians havent bombed any target inside Turkey by mistake , so neither country is at war to shoot it down , Nor did Su-24 challange the F-16 into combat or dog fight
Shooting down is an extreme end of the spectrum and with dead pilots on the Syrian side of border that wont go down well.
Both the Pilots are dead now . RIP : https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUkaMW7UwAITI6M.jpg
It's all about arms sales. That shootdown was necessary to show that Russian jets could be taken down by American jets. Now watch us get all cozy with the Russians.
Exactly. For them to shoot it down, even if it was in their airspace, they had to regard it as hostile, i.e., be on a near-war footing with a considered enemy. But Russia has not actually attacked official Turkey assets in any way . . . their targets are the various invading forces and Syrian opposition military.
"Violated our borders" is bullshit as a reason for shooting the Russian plane down in any case. They knew it as a Russian plane . . . they deliberately started some very serious (I hope) shit. I doubt it would ever happen without US approval.
It's probably pay-back for cutting off the ISIS oil operation and Erdogan Jr.'s income stream.
Yes, Russia has no motive, nothing to gain by entering Turkish airspace. Patrolling the border is sufficient. And if Russia were actually chasing "bad guys" over the border I'd figure that they'd be doing it with more than just one plane, and that they wouldn't be downed by the Turks (via air-to-air).
Didn't log in (due to youtube censors) to see the video, but probably the same one as this.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=425_1448360570
So...if Turkey claims to have shot down the plane over their territory, why are snackbarian terrorists surrounding the body of the pilot?
And...if Turkey continues to insist this is their territory, why is Turkey not being bombed?
The facial injuries to the pilot look like they occurred after his helmet was off, as in he was beaten to death on the ground.
Turkey has blown it for the West.
NEXT MOVE: Putin is going to declare a no fly zone over Syrian airspace and Western Iraq in partnership with the Syrian and Iraqi governments.
Russia will then deploy S-400's to enforce it ending all Western sorties over the theatre and will be extremely trigger itchy towards the Turkish border.
No more USUS dropping 50 tons of arms and ammo into the desert in the vague hope the camels who find it are anti ISIS camels and will shoot the corect people at the correct time and place.
I never really understood why the Russians weren't delivering MOAB's right behind the US-NUTZO weapons air drops you know give em enough time to show up to collect the little shit then show em what the big shit looks like ..... actually show them what thier buddies ass looks like from the inside when the blast wave hits em....... oh well nobody likes a Monday morning quarterback.
Expect Russian fighters to be requiped with R-77's and orders to shoot down any NATO plane that gets within range.
At this point-n-time a Russian cruise missile fly pass over till-aviva will calm down every one.
Let's not get carried away here and call Russians peace loving.
How the hell do you think they got to rule over the largest land mass???? Give it out flowers and drum circles???
Maybe we finally get told who did 911
Start with what they've got on Obama.
They have everything and they're not the only ones.
Our President is compromised beyond belief.
Like this isin't the first POTUS?
Party pussy...
Info on 911 is far more important than the prez.
Yep. That would help to point to the real PTB hiding in the C.O.G. (Continuity of Goverment), Shadow Government. One can hope he will bring this up. That would be amazing and game changing.
Why not? Well roasted, but nevertheless.
Could be roast turkey!
No, just FREEDOM BIRDS. Getting flipped off or over.
Turkey is Soooo FUCKED. GO VLAD !!!
http://goo.gl/VhZdyZ
^porn link
It's always the same site I've noticed.
I think he'd get better results on Huffpo.
He posts porn to try to control you.
http://www.culturewars.com/2004/CruelMonth.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/help/report-offensive-comments
I'm sure if a few of us asked that this asshole be banned, and something in the rules about no porn links would be helpful.
Since porn is not antisemitic, he will stay.
Count me in. That cocksucker has to go.
It's not just the offense factor for prudes, but the risk of splashing unidentified hard core porn on your monitor at work, or at home when the kids are around or the wife or (my situation) the girlfriend.
The impact could range from getting fired to losing custody of your kids to divorce to just some unnecessary conflict with your SO.
Unidentified porn NOT okay. Not good for business, either, Tyler.
I've just added your site to the blocked list on my router - won't be falling for that again.
I just added the following line to my c:\Windows\System32\Drivers\etc\HOSTS file:
0.0.0.0 goo.gl
Or certainly the bigest-assed black swan you have seen this century.
Lousey Corksuckers!!!!
scintillator9 - "Fuck us All would appear to be far more appropriate."
Yup, everybody is going to get messed up on this one, no 'winners".
thesonandheir – Get serious, NATO & EU disbanding? Given what we know I would love to see how that could even be remotely possible. About as likely as Russia backing down and going home.
The powers behind all these players are not folding this hand. This one could get fugly.
World War 3 started! It's the greatest threat global security has ever faced.
http://motivationdose.com/electromagnetic-pulse-attack-emp-blackout-usa-...
Spammer, go fuck.
Thanks for the warning...although if I smell some apocalyptic bible thumper, I skip it anyway.
PoorSpellor22
Yeah, and if we had some ham we could have ham and eggs. . .if we had some eggs.
You could be right.
http://tinyurl.com/pby5uyx
edit: Not sure why somebody would red-arrow me for this. The second half of it is well worth a read.
I downed you just for fun seeing how its obviously opposite day. Have a crappy day :)
you mean to tell us you're surprised people dont want to read about the virgin mary? perhaps maybe we should all sit and have a chat about jesus sometime? *facepalm*
Archduke Ferdinand moment, bitchez
(looks like Soros will get what he asked Santa for...wars to book-end both ends of his life...oh, goody)
Re. The Archduke - Just finished reading this
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/History/Oil_and_the_Origins_of_World_W/oil_and_the_origins_of_world_w.HTM
Looks like here we go again.
Hahahah right, . I guess Me and Vlad are both gonna chew through some Turkeys come Thursday. ..
And so it begins. Well, the good news is there is probably pretty clear rules of engagement already hammered out between Russia and the US. No point in destroying the gameboard with nukes as long as we can keep the war off of Either Russian or US soil.
So basically this thanks giving turkey will be roasted.
Let me see if I have this correct. Russia teaming up NATO Member France and possibly England (intelligence sharing) by bombing the heck out of Isis. Russia teaming up with Iran to prevent the overthrow of Assad. NATO Member USSA in desperate need of a Cranialanalectomy (removing ones head from the deep up their arse). USSA desperately trying to suppress its involvement of creating Isis. Smaller NATO / EU countries trying to halt the Islamification of the EU and may choose to return allegiance to Motherland Russia. Turkey's domestic politics is a shit show but nonetheless must be defended by NATO Members. The Kurds, including the women, have the biggest balls in the whole region to clean house but get no support. Germany has the Welcome Mat out for true refugees as well as terrorist out of guilt from100 years ago yet is more than happy to screw over their neighbors and NATO Members financially. Hello Greece and soon to be Portugal. USSA screws fellow NATO Member Poland, remember the missile defense system that Our Lord and Savior Obama nixed?
Yep, looks like a cluster fuck of epic proportions.
The world has done gone batshiat crazy!
+1 for the surgical operation definition
RT video of the downed pilot:
https://www.rt.com/news/323237-video-dead-russian-pilot/
One this gets play in Russia there will be demand made on Putin that he respond militarily.
The video clearly shows these are "ALLA ACKBAR" rebels, likey the Syrian Freedom Army flavour of ISIS, the same group that recently took delivery of Saudi supplied weaponry. Given the height of the fighter it is likely that the shoot down was via manpad ratehr than F-16.
Perhaps the hammer won't fall on Turkey but just give Putin what he wants...an excuse for all in.
There is no possible way the British are teaming up with anyone other than the Yanks. If Putin trusts that slippery bit of shit Cameron, he's a much bigger fool than I ever thought possible. Cameron will shaft the Russians if they take any intel from the UK....we are in as deep as anyone else in this shitstorm. And on the wrong side of history.
Considering we are using Tornado's to bomb ISIS, any slippery move on their part would be swiftly followed by a smoking trail into the ground.
Yep, looks like a cluster fuck of epic proportions.
The world has done gone batshiat crazy!
Yeah. You have that right, alright..
Now we all get to die in a Nuclear War...Nuclear Winter will kill off any of the survivors from the initial attacks within about 8 days or so..
This is the modeling done by Carl Sagan and other scientists and independently validated by others....before the massive politiciation of science.
It is a good watch. (At least you will know what is going to kill you.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCTKcd2Ko98
NOBODY WINS OR SURVIVES A NUCLEAR WAR...NOBODY.
Sagan if you do some careful research basically made up his data on nuclear winter theories. He also made some very apocalyptic predictions regarding the Kuwaiti oil field fires in which he was completely wrong concerning their atmospheric effects. The man did some great science Venus and titan were great science, nuclear winter not so much.. That said, this development is not good for anybody other than the MIC. I am not going to get invited over to get my ass kicked am I?? I hate El Cajon and Lakeside methhead central...
No.I have not ever threatened anybody with an ass kicking.
In fact I have invited them hunting.
Once somebody here asked me what I intended to hunt...
I replied Cougars...I like Cougar Hunts.
There is something special about wealthy older women who know how to please...
And you assumed violence. See what you missed out on?
I am old and crippled up with Lyme Disease. You'd probably kick my ass.
And...I hate living in Lakeside too.
Sagan was wrong on practically every pronouncement he ever made including Venus. He popularized the greenhouse warming theory which he thought was semi-tropical when in reality the surface of Venus is over 900 degrees and will melt lead. He was a typical academic intellectual asswipe.
Actually I learned my Relativity Physics from one of Sagan's Grad Students.
Furthermore the Atmosphere of Venus is opaque. He was speculating, as most Astronomers were at the time, from insufficient data, previous to in depth Spacecraft studies.
Mariner 2 was a very primitive and limited spacecraft. The USA did not have any real data until the Russians shared their data from the Venera Missions, Mariner 10 did a flyby, and then in 1978 we sent the pair of Pioneer-Venus spacecraft to probe the atmosphere in depth.
Yet this is all MOOT when writing about Nuclear Winter as the planet that revealed what happens to surface temperatures was MARS.
Tom just sayin that academe is pretty much compromised and an impediment to discovery. As for Mars our forebears such as the plains Indians were eyewitnesses to what happened to the atmosphere and surface of Mars which they referred to as 'scarface'. The epic Homeric literature from the beginning of western civilization is au fond the telling of the solar system mayhem of the celestial encounters of Mars and Venus. As I said fuck those pussified asshats of academe...
Electric universe, thunderbolts project, plasma physics.
Right on! Tell it like it is!
Pale Blue Dot was one of the worst "science" book I ever read
Wrong. These asshats have been building Deep Underground Military Bases (DUMBs) for decades now. Supposedly they have also connected them via high speed rail underground. I'm sure they have the best accommodations our taxpayer dollars can provide. They can grow food, generate air and use the latent heat underground for power.
Now, if they have some sort of advanced technology that can clean up radiation via robots, all the better. I don't think anyone would like to live out the rest of their lives living underground no matter how plush. But we simply do not know what they have been hiding from us with regard to advanced Tech, so I don't take anything off the table with these fuckers.
Watch the video.
Everything on the surface will die.
ELEs kill off about 98% of life. The Earth has had about four that I know about.
What type of reality are you going encounter when you emerge into from one of those deep underground structures?
If the Nuclear Winter kills off the phytoplankton there will be NO OXTGEN TO BREATHE.
Calmyourself, above, states that Sagan's data was fabricated. But Sagan used MARS as the model whereas Calmyourself stated Venus so he is not aware of the science.. It was the dust storm data measured by the Mars orbiting Mariner 9 spacecraft that gave him the initial baselines.
Furthermore the Soviet Academy of Sciences looked into this and concluded, independently, that that outcome was a distinct probability.
Do we really need to find out the hard way?
I agree with what you are saying but re-read my statement. I'm saying that these are fully contained DEEP underground bases. Don't assume that they haven't planned for this future if they thought they had the tech to fix the evironment over the period of a couple of decades or so. These people are insane, not rational.
They are going to be sadly disappointed.
We are so screwed.
I'm the down vote only because we all must try to survive. Nobody knows exactly what will happen, and nature has a way of cleaning and repairing herself.
Can you tell us how exactly you came into conclusion that turkish domestic politics is shit show?
Cameron is a moron, but not such a moron he'd stab the US in the back for Russia. The UK shared intelligence with Russia because it served British interests; it brought Russia in to the coalition fighting Isis. I'm not so paranoid that I believe "the West" had anything to do with downing the Metrojet flight but they'd definitely use the tragedy to gain an ally.
Revenge for bombing oil tankers. They must have been turkish apparently. Stupid Turks.
The oil delivered is more important than who owns the tankers. The oil was propping up they Turkish economy.
And who do you think has invested in the oil tankers, IS (who is IS actually)? Why would USA drop leaflets to IS truck drivers? IS is in charge of the fighting, Turkey in charge of oil business, US is managing both.
Because the US rulers are moderate humanitarians?
It would really suck (for Turkey) if Russian satellites and drones tracked one of these convoys of 100-200 tanker trucks and then launched an assault after they crossed the Turkish border... Turkey gets spanked and would no longer have plausible deniability.
My typos are worse than usual this week...
I can almost hear Emperor Obama cackling: "Everything is proceeding exactly as I have foreseen".
Obama is motivated to act based on hatred. It's part of the Muslim training he received.
Which means, because Putin is a smart white non-muslim guy, he is pretty damn high on the hate list. Of course, Obama hates smart white guys non-muslims in the US too. (particularly envious of the "smart" part) but he is worried about his hatred being detected (which is not a bad move). It's easier to direct this toward a foreigner that we've all been taught to fear.
I think the Russians will demand a huge sum of money, and the custody of whomever shot-off the missle to be tried in a Russian military court. If they fail to meet this demand, then "free fire" goes into effect on Turkish jets within 5 miles of the Turkey/Syria border.
We should really watch Russia aircraft deployments to the area.
I am sure the EU fairies will want to convene some summit over this, but I think the Turks just pissed the Russians off.
Got your bunker finished HT ?
I'm in the UK right now. Tell your friend Vlad to lay off the red button for a day or two.
So the SU-24 crashes into Syrian territory. Quite some violation of Turkish airspace. Where the fuck has that p.o.s. Erdogan left his brain? If he thinks he can rely on NATO backing him up when the shit gets really real, he's in for a surprise.
The US has never met a war it didn't like. If you are expecting other NATO members, see Germany & Poland to get all excited about bombing the Russians -- I would think again.
That seems correct. However, the US also has a long history of leaving former "assets" hanging out to dry.
The current German government is a bunch of insane have.
It is German version of affirmative action.
The Germans have lost their ball and that is not just literally.
Current Polish government does not like neither Russia nor Germany. These are the people with very deep memories, which also means they hate the fucking Turks.
"It is German version of affirmative action." and this is an example of projection of US domestic issues on foreign affairs
the usual recipy, "it's like <insert policy here>"
except that it is not related in any way
the German policy of being welcoming towards refugees fleeing war, as reflected in German laws (currently being changed) has really nothing to do with racial discrimination, imagined or real, and a lot with - guess what - wars and refugees
will all depend on how stupid the wannabe sultan is, any attempt to denies safe passage will be a game changer accross EU at the very least.
The buttons were gray, actually.
The telephone next to the button was red.
If the Sukhoi pilots are returned promptly, with some sort of diplomatic "sorry", this crisis will blow over.
If the pilots are not returned promply, it sure as hell won't.
Are there videos showing ejection or parachutes? Parachuting from 6000 meters give a lot of opportunity for filming.
The damage to the plane is obviously catastrophic.
I hope there were parachutes and that the pilots survived.
"Damage to he plane"
I imagine there is essentially no plane left. Just 10,000,000 little pieces and the spindles from the turbines.
While it was in the air, of course.
Amount of damage being linked to incapacitation of the pilots or destruction of the ejection system.
But their passports will be unscathed and in pristine condition...
Not in this case. Here it will be the direct flight path over Turkey, signed by Putin.
Don't need a passport while flying a military jet. Military ID.
Excellent,you are nice student to remember that, did they find the passport or id of those poor bastard Russian pilots?
There is film on RT showing two 'chutes.
There are pictures of a young Russian pilot beat to death too. This is not going to sit well with Ivan 6-pack.
Unless 'ISIS' forces on the ground get the Russians and decide to burn 'em in a cage or something. If, in that case, Turkey shot down the plane over Syria, NATO is in big trouble.
It's saying that anti-Assad Syrian Turkmen rebels captured the pilots or what was left of them. This is boding poorly.
Reporting on RT that one pilot is dead...already.
I believe the magic Russian expression will be: "S-400"
Sorry, God isn't with either side.
“You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you; that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.” (Matthew 5:43-45) Is it reasonable to think that a Christian could love and pray for his enemies while waging war against them?
Imaginary fairies don't matter.
since belief in them moves people... I'd say they do. as much as ideology. next: someone suggesting that ideologies do not matter. explain that to the millions of victims
"Is it reasonable to think that a Christian could love and pray for his enemies while waging war against them?"
yes, it is
if my neighbour is on a rampage, killing indiscriminately, I might knock him senseless. I might even kill him if it looks as the only way to stop him from further killings
the real question about war which the jaded, unthinking and endlessly distracted masses often miss is the reason for the war. the old "casus belli" which makes a war justified or not (and damn propagandists for ever mentioning "just" wars)
violence is justifiable if done in defence of the defenceless, in face of unjustified, wanton aggression. those qualifiers are important, and make the difference between civilized and uncivilized war
So when do Jesus, the apostles, or any of the first centruy Christians do so?
According to religion writer Jonathan Dymond, the early Christians “refused to engage in [war]; whatever were the consequences, whether reproach, or imprisonment, or death.” They chose to suffer rather than compromise their neutral stand. Their moral code also set them apart. Christians were told: “Because you do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you.” (1 Peter 4:4) Historian Will Durant wrote that Christians “were troubling the pleasure-mad pagan world with their piety and their decency.”
The prominent church historian C. J. Cadoux noted: “The early Christians took Jesus at his word . . . They closely identified their religion with peace; they strongly condemned war for the bloodshed which it involved; they appropriated to themselves the Old Testament prophecy which foretold the transformation of the weapons of war into the implements of agriculture.”—Isaiah 2:4.
A Catholic chaplain for the airmen who dropped the atom bombs on Japan in 1945 stated recently: “For the last 1,700 years the church has been making war respectable. It has been inducing people to believe that it is an honorable Christian profession. This is not true. We have been brainwashed. . . . The gospel of the Just War is a gospel that Jesus never taught. . . . There is nothing in the life or teaching of Jesus that would suggest that while it is illegitimate to incinerate people by a nuclear warhead, it is legitimate to incinerate people by napalm or flamethrower.”
The Catholic Herald of London stated: “The first Christians . . . took Jesus at His word and refused to be conscripted into the Roman army even if the penalty was death. Would the whole of history have been different if the Church had stuck to its original stand? . . . If the churches of today could come out with a joint condemnation of war . . . , which would mean that every member would be bound in conscience to be, like the Christians, a conscientious objector, peace might indeed be assured. But we know that this will never happen.”
I know one thing for sure, no 45 minute warnings will be given to Turkey or any other terrorist collaborators before the bear strikes.
Viva le putin
Fuck the Turks. I hope they die a miserable death.
These assholes have been trying to invade Europe for a thousand years.
Time to push them out and take back Constantinople.
I am sure the Kurds and especially the Armenians would be very happy.
As would the Greeks...
I guarantee you the Su-24 was not in Turkish airspace. The Russians are careful to allow NATO to look like belligerant aggressors. NATO taking down a Russian fighter over Syrian airspace...we've been predicting this on ZH for some time, gentlemen.
I would assume a few NATO jets will get similar treatment in the coming weeks...then we'll really see the propanda kick up a notch.
Expected response: Russia announces the enforcement of a no-fly zone above Syria.
Then an official declaration of war by New Year...
S-400 deployments in Syria in 3...2...1...
This also presents a huge problem for Russia. Turkey controls the entry of the Black Sea fleet to/from the Med. As Fred Thompson said in Red October "This business will get out of hand and we will be lucky to live through it."
You mean Greece controls the entry of the Black Sea fleet?
Hey, did you think 2 weeks ago that France would be attacked by those with ties in Syria?
Or that a month ago a Russian airliner would get taken down by an ISIS bomb?
Get ready for some EU busting, new deal with Russia, Spartan resurgence!
My map has Turkey on both sides of the strait. Can you elaborate?
'Merican edjudication says otherwise.
now that was funny.
They got that land by conquest and now it would
be good time for them to lose it.
I want the fucking Constantinople and then blow up every fucking mosque in the city.
The Russians are clearly pissed. I don't think they are that pissed though.
I am speculating that somehow Greece gets involved and becomes the catalyst for WW3.
If Turkey was to close the strait, rather than Russia attack to re-open it, they back Greece, and the Spartans take it back over.
Vegas odds currently have that at 4000 to 1.
Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son, who drew my attention to the ZH article.
Strong rebound has started