Turkish Shootdown of Russian Jet: What You Need to Know

George Washington's picture

A U.S. official told Reuters that the Russian jet was inside of Syria when it was shot down:

The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a U.S. official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Russia denies that the Russian fighter jet – which was bombing ISIS – ever entered Turkish air space, and has put out its own map purporting to prove that claim.

The Russian jet pilots who parachutted free of their burning plane were then purportedly killed by Turkish rebels inside Syria.  If true, this is a war crime.

Then – when a Russian helicopter tried to save the pilots – it was shot down by American-backed Syrian rebels – using weapons provided to them by the United States  – and a Russian marine was killed.

Russia is deploying a warship off the Syrian coast to “destroy any threats to Russian planes”.   Many believe this is the start of World War III.

While the U.S. and NATO tried to blame Russia, German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel slammed Turkey:

“This incident shows for the first time that we are to dealing with an actor who is unpredictable according to statements from various parts of the region – that is not Russia, that is Turkey,” Gabriel said, as cited by DPA news agency. He added that Turkey was playing “a complicated role” in the Syrian conflict.

Indeed, NATO-member Turkey is MASSIVELY supporting ISIS, provided chemical weapons used in the jihadi’s massacre of civilians, and has been bombing ISIS’ main on-the-ground enemy – Kurdish soldiers – using its air force.  And some of the Turkish people are also unsympathetic to the victims of ISIS terrorism.

Turkey was also instrumental in the creation of ISIS.  An internal Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) document produced recently shows, the U.S. knew that the actions of “the West, Gulf countries and Turkey” in Syria might create a terrorist group like ISIS and an Islamic CALIPHATE.

As the former DIA head explained:

It was a willful decision [by Turkey, the West and the Gulf states] to … support an insurgency that had salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood ….

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TheDutchDude's picture

Keep in mind that all the states in world are criminals and it does not matter on which "side" they are, they will never be on our side. Take care of your loved ones and educate the people around you. As already been proficied 2000 years ago the NWO will come. The positions are being taken by Gog and Magog and they will come down hard on us. Although for a short time it will be brutal...

PrimalScream's picture

It's not a trival border tiff.  It's an escalation that will lead to a lot more bloodletting.  Americans are calm at the current time, because it's a Russian aircraft that went down.  People will become irate if the same thing happens to a US aircraft or a French aircraft, and the pilots are executed.  

A war crime is a war crime.  It doesn't depend upon nationalities.

There are reports from the second crew member of the Russian SU-24 - who escaped and survided the shootdown -  that the Russian plane never received any warnings, and that they never entered Turkish airspace.  Russian pilots have sophisticated navigation - they know where they are.  If the Russian testimony is correct (we don't know this) ... then the escalation is even more serious.

Syria is beyond being a quagmire at this stage.  I don't know if it will become WWIII for the whole world.  But there is a very good chance it will be the start of WWIII in the Middle East. 

Lumberjack's picture

Hiilary has a very big problem...

 

Followers Of A Mysterious Turkish Islamic Cleric Have Donated Heavily To Hillary’s Campaign And Family Charityhttp://dailycaller.com/2015/11/22/followers-of-a-mysterious-turkish-isla... 

The largest donation from a leader of the Gulen movement, which is operated from Pennsylvania’s Pocono Mountains by a moderate Muslim cleric named Fethullah Gulen, came from Recep Ozkan. (RELATED: Here’s A Map Of Radical Mosques In The U.S. [Interactive])

A former president of the Gulen-linked Turkish Cultural Center, Ozkan gave between $500,001 and $1,000,000 to the Clinton Foundation in recent months, the charity’s website shows. He also served as a national finance co-chair last year for a pro-Clinton political action committee called Ready PAC.

According to Portland State University political science professor Birol Yesilada, who has studied the Gulen movement for more than 25 years, Ozkan is the New York liaison for the 74-year-old Gulen, who has lived in the Poconos since 1999 when he went into exile after he was accused of attempting to undermine Turkey’s secular regime in order to institute an Islamic state.

 

Bastiat's picture

If the Supreme Central Committee wants to appoint HRC to the presidency, so it will be.

Lumberjack's picture

During the Revolution, after the government had placed the royal family under house arrest in the Tuileries Palace in October 1789, several events linked to Marie Antoinette, in particular the June 1791 attempt to flee, and her role in the War of the First Coalition, had disastrous effects on French popular opinion. On 10 August 1792, the attack on the Tuileries forced the royal family to take refuge at the Assembly, and on 13 August the family was imprisoned in the Temple. On 21 September 1792, the monarchy was abolished. After a two-day trial begun on 14 October 1793, Marie Antoinette was convicted by the Revolutionary Tribunal of high treason, and executed by guillotine on Place de la Révolution on 16 October 1793.

yomutti's picture
yomutti (not verified) Nov 25, 2015 1:24 PM

Ha ha ha - More wackoism from the guy who most inappropriately uses the name George Washington. It's hilarious how all the Russian propagandists talk about this incident in the most hysterical and hyperbolic terms -World War III. Jeepers Wally!

This shootdown is nothing more than a trivial border tiff between  two second-tier regional powers, namely Russia and Turkey. In a year, nobody will even remember it happened.

Hope Copy's picture

Uh, NOBODY..  including the Russians?  You can't cure STUPID.

diamond dog's picture

Erdogans son is the main fence for oil shipments from ISIS through Turkey. Russia destroyed 1000+ tankers this week. No wonder he is pissed.

 

Gartman has been stopped out yet again as he has been a raging bull in a long tankers trade (in Euro terms) for a while now.

 

 

Clesthenes's picture

“Now “squeeze that trigger” and pray to God that you die first because if any of us do survive… you will wish you were never born!”

So said “Son of Captain Nemo”.

Gee, I can agree with that – in spades.

Now, why don’t “we” take measures to guarantee that “we” survive?

And, I suggest that those measures be historically-proven – such as, for example, the powers available to us thru First-Amendment assemblies.

So the first thing that must be done is for those interested to acquaint themselves with the Declaration of Independence  Specifically, ‘when governments become destructive of our rights, we have the right – nay, the power / duty – to alter or abolish it and set new guards for our liberties’, approximately.

The next step is to learn the real history, law and procedures of redress: the business of First-Amendment assemblies (an introduction: one - two).

DollarMenu's picture

You wll need permits so that a "free speech" zone can be erected behind barricades and fencing, with appropriate police enforcemment. 

Hannibal's picture

WW3 started on 911.

the grateful unemployed's picture

W3 except everyone wants the same thing. Russia and the US want to defeat ISIS. Neither side wants an Islamic state in the Nuclear Atlantic Treaty Organization. The US wants to isolate Assad, Russia wants to maintain his regime, they can both have their way. Assad will be isolated, much like the leadership in Iraq. President of a few square miles around the palace. This has all spilled down from Ukraine. Turkey is about to go through it next, so don't blame the Turks, like Ukraine it was instigated by central bankers and their development policies, and the CIA supplying rebels of any stripe to overthrow the current regime. Turkey is set for an ugly civil war, both sides want it.

Hope Copy's picture

Up, let's get rid of some of that oversupply

TrulyStupid's picture

There is an international convention called the Geneva Convention whose signatories have agree to the following: http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/war-crimes-categories-of/

Lmo Mutton's picture

I call BS on the whole staged event.

STAGED from the get go.

Why so many edits?

Why do I hear 2 separate missle launches?

What F'n college graduate officer sets his Dust Off chopper down in a hot LZ and turns the fricken thing off for soooooo long the blades stop and hell there is not even a heat signature from the helo engines???

This may be what a hollywood rescue should look like but I say staged bullshit.

CharlieMike's picture

I had the same thoughts. Likely not even a functional aircraft. Was a propaganda video.

Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Correction GW...

WWIII got started in earnest when the Volgograd train station was bombed at the end of 2013 by the Riyadh/NATO/ISIS contingent, followed shortly thereafter with the DoS "wreaking crew" in Kiev while Russia was hosting the Olympics next door. then the Metrojet Flt 9268 in the Sinai two months ago which was far more of a tragedy and consequence for starting WWIII, then the downing of the Russian attack jet.

While I could safely back up the violations to every post Cold War treaty the United States and it's allies violated from 1990 forward which were also acts for starting WWIII -the Balkans... Belsan incident... Georgia/South Ossetia... Russia wasn't prepared to defend itself 25 years ago.

But they sure as fuck are "NOW" and "WILL".

To the U.S. military. If I had one last thing to tell you moving forward in your medicated haze...

Meander through that list I just provided and ask yourself if your Leaders would exhibit the same unconditional restraint and control that the Russian Federation has over the past two decades given what you've done to them and everyplace else you motherfuckers set foot?...

Now "squeeze that trigger" and pray to God that you die first because if any onf us do survive with what inevitably is coming you will wish that you were never born!

Good Luck!

Conax's picture

I don't get how shooting at enemy pilots that just bombed one's country is a war crime.

It isn't the height of bravery shooting at a sitting duck, no, but hardly the same as hanging people on meathooks or blowing up hospitals.  Pilots are equipped to work their way back to friendly lines. They have a compass, map and a pistol. That's an enemy combatant. You can kill him for what he's done.

If you let him escape, he'll be back soon in another jet bombing your country again.

Is capturing them a war crime, too?  C'mon.

It's war.

 

galant's picture

"I don't get how shooting at enemy pilots that just bombed one's country is a war crime."

What sort of crooked thinking is that?

No-one claims the plane bombed Turkey.

A false proposition to blur the issue.

Conax's picture

Noone claimed the Turks shot the pilot in his trip to the ground.  I've been referring to the killing of the pilot.

The plane was bombing in Syria. The pilot's killers were FSA.

chinoslims's picture

Typically, downed pilots are used as barter.  There is no negotiating with these savages

Conax's picture

I grok that.  I'm just not getting how they are a protected class of soldier here.

Let's say a sniper has been shooting into your camp all day, and has run up a good count.

Then he runs out of ammo, climbs down from his tree and is sneaking off.

If he gets shot, is it a 'war crime'?  He was out of bullets, right?  Should the enemy re-arm him for battle to make it fair or what?

The term 'war crime' is a bit too emotional here.

Baa baa's picture

Pilots are considered helpless after eject. It is an attempt to civilize a primitive and savage activity in which humans engage regularly. Of course it doesn't make sense. There is little regarding war that does.

Try and make sense of it all will kill you. Just take personal responsibility for all your actions, keep your head down, bowels open and never volunteer.

Conax's picture

IF he was descending waving a white flag of surrender and they shot him, that'd be different.

If he was captured, on his knees and they blew his brains out, that would be different.

Until he has POW status, it's open season. Tactically stupid, despicable and gutless, but still.

Hope Copy's picture

Technically the parachute is a white flag, but you can't cure stupid!

Conax's picture

Then what's the pistol for?

xavi1951's picture

Turkey is like Pakistan in many ways.  It is playing both sides at the same time.  Practicing Muslims threaten the governments so they are given $$$ to leave the government alone.  Non-practicing Muslims, the real radicals, just want to live a westernized/modernized life and be left alone so they pay the government.  It's another form of wealth redistribution.

InnVestuhrr's picture

Over a period of 30 years, after finishing my business trips in the region, I used to really enjoy my exploration and adventure side trips in Turkey. It is an amazing place, with rich diverse history, great diverse tasty foods, superb old-world craftsmanship, fantastic coastline with good fishing and diving, and in the rural areas, delightfully warm hospitality. If you like to cook spicy foods, you really have to experience shopping in Turkish bazzars - the rich aromas alone will give you a high.

However, ever since the Turkish regime swung from secular to the rabid islamic cult, I have seen a dramatic shift into unpleasant and dangerous, and I would not go to Turkey while this islamic cult wields power and is fanning the islamic cult flames, and persecuting the Kurds. I predict a bad outcome for Turkey - they badly need a resurrection of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

Reaper's picture

When did Barack know? When did US military commanders know? Does Barack allow his Turkish running dogs autonomous decisions?

Barack and his neo-cons emote and expect their enemies to emote, but the Bear thinks to avoid snares.

DeadFred's picture

Don't you know that Obama learned about this when he saw it on TV just like the rest of us. Like IRSgate and every other negative scandal that has come his way he never knows ahead of time. The saddest thing is he might be telling the truth.

"Keep the Kenyan figurehead on the golf course and out of the way"

Tarzan's picture

This is all just part of the plan folks.  Breaking Iraq apart was step one.  Breaking apart Syria, step two.  Before it's over the turks will lose land too. 

Sunni extremists are the hornets nest and the west has been beating it with a stick since 2006 hoping when the dust settles they'll have the region prepped for new Banker drawn borders and alliances.

 

Biden: Split Iraq into 3 different regions

Updated 5/1/2006 8:28 AM ET E-mail | Print | WASHINGTON (AP) — The senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee proposed Monday that Iraq be divided into three separate regions — Kurdish, Shiite and Sunni — with a central government in Baghdad.

In an op-ed essay in Monday's edition of The New York Times, Sen. Joseph Biden. D-Del., wrote that the idea "is to maintain a united Iraq by decentralizing it, giving each ethno-religious group ... room to run its own affairs, while leaving the central government in charge of common interests."

The new Iraqi constitution allows for establishment of self-governing regions. But that was one of the reasons the Sunnis opposed the constitution and why they demanded and won an agreement to review it this year.

Biden and co-writer Leslie H. Gelb, former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, acknowledged the opposition, and said the Sunnis "have to be given money to make their oil-poor region viable. The Constitution must be amended to guarantee Sunni areas 20% (approximately their proportion of the population) of all revenues."

Biden and Gelb also wrote that President Bush "must direct the military to design a plan for withdrawing and redeploying our troops from Iraq by 2008 (while providing for a small but effective residual force to combat terrorists and keep the neighbors honest)."......

 

......In their essay Monday, Biden and Gelb wrote: "It is increasingly clear that President Bush does not have a strategy for victory in Iraq. Rather, he hopes to prevent defeat and pass the problem along to his successor."

 

So, it appears to me either Biden is a prophet, or he and the Council on Foreign Relations laid out the plan unfolding before our eyes a decade ago. Which sort of explains Obama's odd pick for VP way back when....

Max UK's picture

Biden, whose son was to make his fortune fracking in 'liberated' Ukraine.

These so called leaders are insane. I don't know what is worse; a grand plan which requires all these wars for global domination, or the proliferation of these reptilian hangers-on, who support these same wars because some itsy bit of cash profit for themselves. I hope there is a special place in hell for those who collude in misery and slaughter on an industrial scale, simply to enrich themselves that little bit more.

Tarzan's picture

Speaking of Ukraine,

 

News Nov 25 2015, 4:13 am ET
Russia's Gazprom Cuts Off Gas Supplies to Ukraine

 

MOSCOW — Russia's state-controlled gas company is halting supplies to Ukraine, its chief executive said Wednesday, less than two months after the two countries struck an EU-sponsored deal.

 

So, what does the MSM tell the American people?

 

Ukraine stops buying Russian gas, closes airspace
Nataliya Vasilyeva, Associated Press 8:02 a.m. EST November 25, 2015

 

MOSCOW - Tensions between Russia and Ukraine escalated further on Wednesday as Ukraine decided to stop buying Russian natural gas

 

Psychos, all of them!

Omen IV's picture

Eliminate  Wahabbism - breakup Saudi Arabia - give the home of Mecca to all Sunni's around the world - the resources can finance a new state

 

Its time for SA to go away and the US to go home!

SoDamnMad's picture

Newsboy. That video was made previously to the events that happened so recently. Hollywood could not have spiced that together as quick.

If it was photoshopped pictures yes, video, no way.

Whoa Dammit's picture

Update: One pilot was rescued by Russia:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3333117/Downed-Russian-pilot-pic...

 

My biggest takeaway from this is just how un-moderate the so called moderate rebels are.

Cloud9.5's picture

If you go back to the cold war, we had a number of occasions where one side shot the other side’s planes down.  Gary Powers comes to mind as well as planes lost on both sides in Korea, Cuba and Vietnam. 

 

What is different is that many of the cold warriors had real experience with hot wars.  Khrushchev as a case in point had intimate knowledge of what it was like to have total war sweep across his country. 

 

The jingo spirit that pervades the country today is very much like that of the 1890’s.  The people in control grew up on the war stories of their fathers and grandfathers.  Like all armchair warriors, they think they can make a few brilliant chess moves and it will be over.

 

 

What we are sleepwalking into is not a video game that we can put on pause while we get up off the couch to go to the microwave for a pop tart.

WhyWait's picture

There is a Khrushchev quote from a one-volume unauthorized autobiography from about 1979, which I can find no reference to, which went something like this:

"These people don't understand that once total war is unleashed it sweeps back and forth across continents devouring everything in its path until its fuel is exhausted."

MFL8240's picture

The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a U.S. official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

 

Bullshit!  What was the need to slaughter the pilot who was parachuting to safety? 

Max UK's picture

Without wanting to dismiss the legal technicalities of the case, it is only one of the perspectives to view the affair.

If I started harassing and threatening people more powerful than myself, I could arm myself with a legal and moral shield. That would protect me from their retribution for sure. /sarc.

Turkey should know this well. They care not for their own countless airspace violations of neighbours, their state sponsoring of terrorists, their persecution of the kurds, including historic hot pursuit into neighboring states, their annexation of Northern Cyprus, their historic genocides and so on. They know full well, that the law only applies to the weaker. They have made their move, and deserve no sympathy if this blows up in their face.

They have no moral right to bleat about international law, as they have proven again and again, that they view that self-same body of law with the greatest contempt..

silverer's picture

Nuts, isn't it?  Turkey was just looking for an opportunity to start trouble.  That was totally unecessary.  Russia never intended to do anything inside the Turkish border.  I would expect a civilized nation to simply lodge a complaint for an overfly like this.  No bombs were dropped or weapons deployed upon Turkish soil by those Russian pilots.  Turkey has apparently overflown other countries airspace countless times.  Maybe time for Russia to set up some air to air missiles on those borders and take out a few Turkish "overfliers".

Squids_In's picture

Erdogans son is the main fence for oil shipments from ISIS through Turkey. Russia destroyed 1000+ tankers this week. No wonder he is pissed.

xizang777's picture

As a loyal American, it's really hard for me to support my country when I know we are not the good guys.  Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

holgerdanske's picture

double post, for some reason. Sorry.

holgerdanske's picture

Then stop your support! I understand you. I think a large part of the world's population can no longer feel proud in their leadership. All is political, and that means you will not find a man who will stand by his word.

They typically change their minds more often than they change underwear, and as they are all, without exception, psychopaths, they feel nothing irrespective how stupid, dishonest and uncaring they come through.

The world is lead by an narcissistic delusional bunch of idiots. It will only stop when we refuse to do their bidding!

J Jason Djfmam's picture

I declare this: World War What the Fuck.

WWWTF.

lakecity55's picture

The .politburo and the US People are TWO different things!

Questan1913's picture

One can love ones country (its land and people) and loathe its government without any contradiction whatsoever.