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Russia Says Turkey's Attack On Jet Was "Planned Provocation" As Ankara Moves Tanks Near Syrian Border
On Tuesday evening, we took a close look at the circumstances surrounding Turkey’s decision to shoot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border. The incident was the most meaningful escalation in the conflict to date and marks the first time a Russian or Soviet plane has been downed by NATO since 1953.
The pilots ejected, one of whom was shot in his parachute by FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who subsequently celebrated over the body. About an hour later, the FSA's 1st Coastal Brigade used a US-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and rescue helicopter, killing one Russian marine.
For his part, Vladimir Putin called Erdogan a backstabber and proceeded to accuse Turkey of flying the black flag of ISIS and funding the Islamic State cause by facilitating the sale of illegal crude.
Miraculously, there were no further escalations overnight, but as we outlined in detail on Tuesday, something doesn’t add up about the story Ankara is telling. According to a letter Turkey sent to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the 15 members of the UN Security Council, the Russian warplane, flying at 19,000 feet, “violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds.” If you do the math on that, it means the Su-24 was basically flying at stall speed.
Journalists: Learn to do basic maths. Look at Turkey's statement to UN: 1.15 miles / 17 seconds x 60 x 60 = 243 miles/hour = 391 km/hour
— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 24, 2015
Here's how we summed up the situation:
It's important not to forget the context here. Ankara is fiercly anti-Assad and in addition to being generally displeased with Russia's efforts to support the regime, just four days ago, Turkey summoned Russian ambassador Andrey Karlov over the alleged bombing of Turkish villages near the border.
Of course Russia wasn't just bombing Turkish civilians for the sheer hell of it. It's likely Moscow was targeting the very same FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who shot and killed the parachuting Russian pilot.
In short, it looks like Ankara saw an opportunity to shoot down a Russian jet in retaliation for strikes on Turkish rebel fighters who are operating alongside anti-Assad forces.
With that in mind, note that on Wednesday, Sergei Lavrov (not known for holding his tongue or even for observing any semblance of diplomatic decorum) accused Ankara of conducting a pre-meditated strike. "We have serious doubts this was an unintended incident and believe this is a planned provocation,” Lavrov said, after a meeting with his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu. Lavrov also said he would back a plan to close the Turkish-Syrian border. "I think this is the right desicion. I hope President Hollande will tell us more about the issue tommorow. We would be ready to consider all measures that needed for this [closing the border]. By closing the border we will basically thwart the terrorist threat in Syria," he said.
Russia also said the Syrian army (so, Iran or Hezbollah) had retrieved the second pilot who is now "alive and well." Here's how French ambassador Alexandre Orlov summed up the situation in an interview with Europe 1 radio: “One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and killed in a savage way on the ground by the jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape and, according to the latest information, has been picked up by the Syrian army and should be going back to the Russian air force base.”
Note the difference in the way Russia and the US describes the FSA. For the US, they are a "moderate opposition group," for the Russians, they are "jihadists." Considering they are allied with al-Qaeda, and judging from the gruesome videos released by the group on Tuesday, you'd be forgiven if you're inclined to go with Moscow's characterization.
Meanwhile, Russia is set to deploy the S-400s. "Russia also said Wednesday it would take new measures in Syria to protect its aircraft, deploying powerful S-400 anti-air missile systems, which have a range of nearly 250 miles, to Russia’s Khmeimim airbase in northwestern Syria," WaPo reports, adding that "the airbase is located a little under 20 miles from the Turkish border, and has the potential to create headaches for Turkish and other aircraft in a U.S.-led coalition that are carrying out a separate airstrike campaign in Syria."
These are of course the same S-400s which the Western media claimed were already at Latakia earlier this month - a contention Russia denied at the time. Whether or not they were there is now immaterial - they'll be operational from this point on. As a reminder, here's what the systems look like:
What seems clear (as noted above and as discussed at length on Tuesday), is that Turkey is keen on protecting Alwiya al-Ashar and other anti-Assad forces operating near the Turkish border. Indeed, Sergei Lavrov said as much in a press briefing on Wednesday. "[The] question arises whether Turkey is defending Syria area to protect rebel infrastructure," Lavrov said at a press briefing in Moscow on Wednesday.
Indeed, Ankara looks to be stepping up its military presence near the area where the Russian plane was shot down. "Turkey has moved 20 tanks from west of country to southern province of Gaziantep, bordering Syria, and increased number of F-16s flying patrols along border to 18 as of yesterday," state-run Anadolu Agency said today. Here's a visual that shows you where Gaziantep is in relation to Aleppo and to the Su-24 crash site:
The logical next question to ask here is how prepared Turkey is to defend FSA positions because it's only a matter of time before the IRGC and Hezbollah invade these areas on the ground and when that happens, you can expect Ankara to cry genocide against Syria's Turkmen miniority. What comes after that is anyone's guess.
In the meantime, Lavrov says Russia "is not going to war against Turkey," but remember what we said last month when Turkey shot down a Russian drone: "For now, it appears as though The Kremlin is going to take this one in stride, but that may be "strike one" so to speak, meaning NATO might have one or two more pot shots it can take before Erdogan gets a slightly less "neighborly" call from Moscow."
Tuesday was strike two.
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Of course, it was planned. The Russian jets were in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds, if at all. So Turkey had planned and waited for this incident.
BTW, Turkish jets violated Greek airspace more than 1000 times in January 2014
Claiming there was no legal justification for firing on the jet, Mr Lavrov said: “It all looks like a planned provocation…I can’t speculate about Turkey’s real reasons but we have plenty of information that confirms this was a deliberate pre-planned act.
In just the first month of 2014 Turkish jets are claimed to have violated Greek airspace1,017 times
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/turkey-greece-cyprus-aegean-air-space-nato.html#ixzz3sPLwBC48 …
Sooooo....I'm walking by the TV...
How is a climate change meeting a rebuke to terrorists?
Before you answer that.....here's the catch.....it has to make sense.
It's like they're just throwing spaghetti at the wall now and seeing what sticks.
Of course it doesn't make sense... if our elitists really believed in climate change, they would immediately wind down their military activities. The USSA's military is the single largest producer of carbon, exceeding the output of more than half the worlds nations. They are just lying hypocrites.
This is the first mistake Putin has made. He needs to move the tanks next to the Israeli border.
This is exactly what Israel wants. Dude needs to keep his cool. Line the tanks next to Israel, line the ships pointing at Tel Aviv, and wait.
Also China and Russia, especially China should jack up interest rates liquidating assets and forcing the Fed to defend the dollar and prick that fucking bubble.
Uh no. Ankara - the capital of Turkey - moves tanks to the Syrian border. Not the Russians moving tanks. They don't have any tanks in Syria.(only air, naval, SAM and special forces to protect air bases)
By closing the border we will basically thwart the terrorist threat in Syria," he said.
Doesn't that mean....
I'm just glad that this can all be blamed on Global Warming® (since rebranded Climate Change®, since rebranded CO2 Pollution®, since rebranded Climate Disruption®). SUV (but not van, pickup, or vehicles that get similar mileage) driver's fault!!!
As soon as all governments raise taxes high enough and squish their people/businesses enough with ever more burdensome laws and regulations, this problem will be fixed.
I'm just glad the missile porn is back in full swing.
In my best Russel Peter's voice........."somebody gonna get a hurt real bad!"
Vote up!
0Vote down!
0Putins next move should be:
1) move an paratrooper division to syria.
2) 'leak' russia is concerned about turkey closing the bosphorus, so it's ships are leaving the med via the straights of gib.
3) as they are moving pass drop the hammer on north cyprus.
4) once all tanks, apc, aircraft, barracks are destroyed, move the paratrooper division in with the aid of the cryprus army.
5) take over turkish bases and use them as a med operational base.
No country in the world (except turkey) recognises north cyprus as part of turket, and there are UN has passed resolutions against turket regarding the 1973(i think) invasion. Therefore NATO will have a easy means to let the incident slide. Greece and Cyprus will be over the moon ofc, and Russia can spin the whole thing as a liberation, and to be honest most of the sane, i.e. non-gubberment, people in the EU will back Russia.
PR win
Free Med Base of operations
BIG FU to turkey
Your homework tonight.
1). Find an online tool for drawing radius circles on maps.
http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm
2). Find the interception range of an S-400 SAM system.
600km
3). Draw circles on the map centred at i). Sevastopol, Crimea ii). Latakia, Syria.
4). Discuss...
hardware in place, check mate Black Sea
Turkey just put herself on a straight path towards a world of hurt:
http://goo.gl/wbvm16
Truth is WW3 already started! It's going to get nasty..
http://motivationdose.com/is-america-babylon/
Russian pilots, apparently, need to master the art of 'TURDUCKEN'
~~~
It's a chicken, wrapped in a duck, that's wrapped in a turkey... & it's cooked in an oven, which is inside of your kitchen, which is inside of your house...
TURDUCKEN!
Hahaha nice
The black belt, rifle toting chess master is too smart to allow the west to lure him into an over the border NATO F-fest.
He will lure the saps into a trap.
Hear that, Pentagram ?????
ps.. Turkisfuk is only a NATO member for one reason.. and that is to provoke our Russian colleagues into a fight.
I would love to see the diminutive Putin in a bare knuckle fight with the lankey golf-crazy white-wannabe muslim president of the USA.
That would abolish all notions of the Napolean complex.
Vlad would really tenderizxe them almost black Alinsky abs.
Putin wants no part of Turkey. He screwed up by planting himself in the middle of this war. He must have forgotten that Islam cost him an empire back in the 80's. What a moron.
He has no choice and only the most uninformed or disabled minds don't know that. The West is coming to loot Russia and he can either resist or roll over. He's lucky you aren't there advising him on how to get his ass high enough to facilitate democratic docking procedures.
Seeing the image of that Russian thing going down in flames made me think it is a metaphor for Russia's economy going down in flames too. Both are the result of Putin's paranoid schizophrenia. He wanted to see how far he could go provoking NATO and what the result would be. Now he found out. Russia had better be careful with its S400 missiles. If it shoots down an American plane over Syria Russia or even tries, it will face a lot more than rhetoric and pin pricks. Not only does the US have the ability to crash Russia's economy far more quickly than it's doing it now, military systems provided by companies like Raytheon are designed specifically to take out ground based air defense systems like S400 to clear the way for manned and unmanned US air attack systems.
How do you take out an S-400 installation with the following operating parameters?
9 seconds to detect a target and launch a missle.
Intercept Range = 600km
Intercept Ceiling = 56km (185,000ft)
Maximum target speed for intercept = 12,000 mph (4.8km/s)
The S-400 is design to identify and destroy incoming ICBM's that are re-entering the earths atmosphere at 4km / second.
Moscow is the only city on Earth with an operational ICBM shield.
The S-500 which is due to be deoployed in 2017 is specified to intercept targets travelling at 7 km/s that's almost 16,000mph or Mach 21.
What "military systems provided by companies like Raytheon" are going to take out an S-400 installation? There is no such system.
Is Moscow shielded from the effects of a Nuclear Winter?
You do realize that the substantial soot and ash will diminsh sunlight and cause plummetting temperatures that will take out the Rain Forests in the tropics while freezing Moscow's inhabitants to death.
You do realize that the phytoplankton in the World's Oceans will die and not produce OXYGEN,which is vital to life. So even if some make it into underground shelters it may be Hundreds of Thousands of years, if not tens of Millions of years, before they can reemerge into a Lithosphere with breathable air.
Missile defenses are not any defense against an Extinction Level Event. That is what a Global Thermonuclear War is...an Extinction Level Event. And that is where this is heading...escalation towards Global Thermonuclear War.
Is Syria worth it? Is Syria worth wiping out the entire population of the Planet?
Do you really think that Moscow is immune to that?
Even the Soviet Academy of Sciences did studies on the aftermath of a Global Thermonuclear War with just 1/100th of the available arsenal expended. They came up with these results.
Carl Sagan and another team in America came up with these results.
Now I have read that there is some doubts...
But are you really willing to gamble that these scientists are wrong?
Do we really need to find out the hard way?
It will be far too late as the outcome is FATAL for 98% of all life on Planet Earth.
War is abhorrent. Global Thermonuclear War is much worse as I do not think that it can be expressed in a word.
Do you see what you are promoting?
Oh. I know that it is not just you. I mean I am reading the same type of nonsense by the USA's NSA on these pages.
And I am having that same horror, once again, as being a lone voice out here, in the wilderness, calling for everybody to stand down as their very survival depends on it.
I am having the same experience as I did when most everybody in the USA was clamoring for War against Iraq tn 2003 to avenge the WTC, when, Iraq had nothing to do with it.
Perhaps we deserve extinction. Our actions will bear out the consequences of that which we deserve.
Nobody is talking about nuclear weapons except for you, you moron.
Lighten up, Frances.
The us and other governments have exploded thousands of nuclear weapons since they stole the technology from ze Germans.
The bigger problem of nuclear war is the melt downs of hundreds of nuclear facilities when the grid goes down due to an emp.
Those smart scientists, they made nuclear power plants to have to have grid power to start up.
And their waste has been sitting for 60 or so years.
So yeah. There are bigger problems than nuclear weapons.
I think that you refuse to see it. Did you ever bother looking up the term "Nuclear Winter"???
That is alright. Blindness can lead to fatal consequences.
Myopia seems to prevail.
It's spelled Francis..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k
now, T-Tom has valid concerns.
and.. myopia does indeed prevail... homos....
Occident Mortal.
Are these not your words from YOUR POST to which I replied?
The S-400 is design to identify and destroy incoming ICBM's that are re-entering the earths atmosphere at 4km / second.
These would not happen to be Nuclear Warheads, right?
Yeah...They'd spend all of that fuckin' cash on an ICBM to deliver a Conventional Weapon.
Conventional wars that escalate into World Wars will escalate into Nuclear Weapons exchanges...
...you moron.
So go and fuck off warmonger. You are just as evil as the pricks running my Nation.
Tall Tom,
I appreciate what you are saying and agree. To me, your posts are always worth consideration. I would like to converse with you someday about how we, as individuals, can stem this satanic slide.
We cannot control other people at all.
The only hope is that we can control our own self.
And even that I find difficult other than by the grace of God...Higher Power, etc.
How silly and stupid you are.
Just over load it with a dozen or 2 incoming cruise missiles. Gone. Next.
Newbie you should the article read before making comments less intelligent than retarded.
S-400 system tracking capable 36 targets simultaneously.
So the 37th missile does the trick?
Exact same argument could be made against CVNs, airbases, etc.
I agree.
In fact any target can be overwhelmed....including your home in a Home Invasion...no matter how many guns that you have.
The point is that mkkby's statement is a statement of rational thinking and not idiocy.
That is the reality. Too bad that this inconvenient truth is diisturbing.
Both Soviet and American technology were markedly INFERIOR to that of the Wehrmacht im World War II. (That is the reason that the post war bonanza was the seizure of the technoogy and the scientists and engineers.)
But the Wehrmacht could not produce anywhere near the amounts of equipment that we produced.
We (that includes the Russians) overwhelmed them by the numbers.
America may have damned superior weapon systems. So might the Russians be superior to the Americans.
Who cares? That is NOT what it is about
But America has lost its ability to produce this in vast numbers. That is the weakness which is a more solid argument than boasting of the technological wizardry of certain weapon systems..
"Our fighters are better than your fighters. Our ABMs can knock out your ICBMs. Nah nah na nah nah"
You guys sound like a bunch of primary grade schoolers boasting on the playground.
But...but...but...but Raytheon, Haliburton, Boeing, evil paranoid, barrel bomb, genocide! Don't you understand!
So far US is doing a great job in crashing it's own economy. These potato trolls are getting pathetic... Didn't CIA give you anything more substantial to argue with, any talking cards, something ? Right now your talking points are worse than those of a 5th grader. It might work for a good chunk of the US population, but for the outside world is just hogwash...
Think US State Dept., work offered to minority owned SBIRs only, lowest bidding perception mgmt contractor got it, further sub-contracted out to fly-by night due to lack of cleared warmbods, their A-team players already departed for Thx-day, and chicom Windows 8 laptops drops connection every 5 minutes because VPN certs from OPM were misconfigured.
Additionally, last month's potato held up in customs due to lack of tax #.
Slavon you sneaky spamming own website I see.
And last word of absurd comment you make somehow link to your crappy website sneaky spammer. May be spamming are the result of your own schizophrenia. Was registered in the mental hospital? Peed in the bed? Is there any deviation from the norm in sexual preference?
If you are not good, then I recommend to contact the experts for "calm nerves".
Wow! What a great example of ignorance! Was it intentional?
You may have accidentally smoked Berber carpet lint when you dropped that nug of Strawberry Cough. If so you may be entitled to compensation. Contact the offices of James Sokolov and quit humping our legs here.
Just for the record, the US Air Force has no "right" to operate in Syrian airspace.
Silly thought, I realize, since the USA is super-exceptional and all; still, the shooting down of uninvited foreign military aircraft operating in Syrian airspace would be perfectly legitimate... a lot more legitimate than Erdogan's deliberate provocation.
Already did those circles before reading your comment.
You missed out Moskva from your list though, plus the first Iranian s300s, would fill any gaps
if deployed in the north.
A de facto no fly zone.
range is 400km.
Latakia range doesnt even reach antalya.
Ankara is painfully out of range of crimea.
Whats to discuss?
"
Ship-borne version S-400 perhaps?
Range is only 250km detection, 200km ground to air missile. Look at the damn graphic in this article, stupid fuck.
The tool for radius you have provided is obviously very inacurate. Try this and youll see http://www.mapdevelopers.com/draw-circle-tool.php
As the U.S Third elected President, I ask you, do you have any conception of NATO?
Attack on Turkey, is an attack on all of NATO.
Thus, under your "THEORY", then, as no one regoginzes the Spratly Islands as belonging to China, the World should utilize this exact strategy in the South China Sea, right?
Young man, fat, stupid, and ugly is no way for you to traverse though this life.
Additionally your use of the vernacular, is quite appalling in mixed company...clear evidence of your lack of breeding,
or possibly inbreeding
TJ - Shadewell, VA.
You think europe and america will risk a war with a nuclear super power over liberation of a nato member and a member of the EU (yes cyprus is both) from an illegal occupation, as recognised by the whole world. I bet not.
Reclamed land in the south china sea, and an EU member state who has been illegally invaded and occupied by a non-EU member state for over 40 years are, as you put it, exactly the same.
TJ - Shadewell, i out you as a moron. jog on.
"You think europe and america will risk a war with a nuclear super power.. I bet not."
I would make that bet. The US TPTB seems to want to start WW3. This isn't the first time the US has tried to force Russia's Hand, Ukraine, and the muslim incitements in the border regions. Its look more and more the US gov't has morphed into the Axis of Evil. Sooner or later the US is going to push someone over the edge (China or Russia) resulting in direct confrontation, When US forces engage Chinese or Russia forces it very well could be the spark that triggers a nuclear war. Also recall that Russia has it nuclear forces in constant preparedness and drilling (ie Subs, Mobile Nukes, ICBM testing, and Bombers).
I agree the US might, but not europe. Europe when it comes to it, will blink. Without Europe NATO is dead. US TPTB seem to be bat shit crazy, raging hard-on for a war with russia.
WI and WII are burned into the collective culture of europe, they wont go there again over russia kicking turkey out of Cyprus. Us maybe, but not 'NATO'.
First it is not up to the USA.
Next it is not up to any European Nations.
ALL WARS ARE BANKER'S WARS.
Actually it is up to the BIS and the IMF and the FED and the ECB.
You ought to watch this and learn about the real mechanics behind warfare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4
You cannot even identify the true enemy. (NO. It is not the commonly accepted villian.)
Watch that film and the secrets will be revealed.
These psychopaths are going to try and kill us all.
A chap named "nod2glod" is evidence of the vacancy of the cranium
My poor demented fellow, it would be Russia proovoking a Nuclear missle to be firmly inserted in its excretion canal by attacking Turkey, not the US. So I imagine you fashion that NATO should just let this little Bonaparte run amok over Europe, unchecked, because any challenge might provke a nuclear response? Yes, I see, one just waits and waits until the bear is in the back yard. No, you attack the bear and disembowel it now
How dare you address a former President, and founding father of these great united States in such a pedestrian and derogatory manner.
As I hath previously stated
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas JeffersonThe dementia is your'n my dear Thomas. I have not the slightest doubt that my great ancestor President Thomas Jefferson would suffer the likes of you. A miserable shade indeed.
He who knows best knows how little he knows.
Thomas JeffersonRussian MLRS strike from today for your viewing pleasure.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQsxnwphNzU&feature=youtu.be
Looks like russia is not pleased..
ALAAKBAAARR!!!! or something
That is good fireworks display and at ground level.
The end doesn't look good for the guy who did the recording. Me thinks too much "Al-Ak"..
This is
going to hurt?
Fire a EMP bomb to Turkey to destroy electricity grid and internet.
A negotiated treaty for the Kurds with a ceded territory for them from Iraq and Syria with weapons supplied by Russia might not be that far fetched.
I think it would be US armed and supported. Kurds are getting bombed by Russia and paid by the US.
Territories that accurately reflected tribal divisions would benefit all of them. Intergration of Sunnis, Shias and Kurds hasn't, and won't work... without a strongman, and we tend to kill those.
If Iran, Iraq and Syria can somehow be induced to sponsor, or at least tolerate, a New Kurdistan, Erdogan will go in history as the biggest lame-brain ever to lead the Turks... which is saying a lot.
@ picture of beautiful Ford tractor: Climate Change ® is designed to destroy us KULAKS. Please everyone check out this article. The headline reads:
Memorandum could grant monument-style designation powers to federal agenciesCO2 pollution has always been the most idiotically stupid of the environmental alarmist issues. At slightly less than .04% of the atmosphere you could argue we just dont have enough CO2. Not to mention plants eat it for food and humans exhale it. Labeling it pollution is moronic to the extreme, and anyone who believes it deeply misguided. The earth is not about to become Venus for #)*# sake. Venus is 96.5% CO 2.
they cut off the ISIS crude convoys?
Erdogan, by shooting down the Russian plane, is trying to pull his main lever against Putin and it ain’t no NATO.
This “lever” is the Bosporus, the Dardanelles, and the Sea of Marmara, which together form the Turkish Straits, connecting the Black Sea with the Mediterranean.
The passage through the Straits is regulated by the Montreux Convention since 1936.
According to the Article 20 of the Convention, In time of war, Turkey being belligerent, … the passage of warships shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish Government… … a notification to that effect shall be addressed to the High Contracting Parties and to the Secretary-General of the League of Nations.
Now, when was the last time, boys and girls, you’ve heard of a heavily advertised “letter sent to the UN’s Secretary General” about any hostilities, wars, no-fly-zones?
The closure of the Straits can also be overwritten by the Security Council (Article 21).
Erdogan has just shot himself in the ass. He’s enjoyed a very friendly relationship with Putin for a long time, but now he’s got an angry powerful neighbor instead. ;-)
Looney
Dont forget there's actually quite a bit of conflict history between those two nations, stretching back to before the first world war when Turkey was part of the Ottoman Empire.
Let's put on our thinking caps shall we? The Russian's are flying extremely close to the Turkish border, and the Turks send up some F-16's. Don't think for a moment that the Russian's didn't know they were there, nor that the Turk's hadn't used their radar to search for the Russians. No counter-measures for a single missile?
Looks to me like the Russians knew this one was coming, and let it happen. Now there is a reason to bring in those S400's, to protect their aircraft. They bring that in and light it up, will be interesting to see what the Turks (cough, cough - US) does then. Wonder what happens to all those sorties the US says it is doing to stop ISIS.
Don't expect much more until additional assets are in place. For both sides.
All very plausible... however when the chips are down, I would trust a people that has values closer to my own, rather than a country that nearly openly harbors radical islamists and thinks it's a good thing those men are fighting for islam.
ummm...
"I would trust a people that has values closer to my own, rather than a country that nearly openly harbors radical islamists and thinks it's a good thing those men are fighting for islam."
too bad the masonic fuckhats running the usa, canada, britain, france, germany etc have values that line up perfectly with the mohamedeans.
Albert Pike amigos, Albert Pike. He laid out the grand plan a long time ago. The pyramid loving douchebags, in between their eyes-wide-shut parties, are in control of every country today. The next time you go by the post office or the federal court, pay attention to the "novos ordo seclorum" all seeing eye pryamid on the front of the building. They tell us who they are and what they value. Read some of what the old scumbag luciferian Albert Pike had to say.
Washinton Monument = pecker statue, worship of the egyptian devil known as Isis
Statue of Liberty = Mithraea, aka the little red tobogan hat wearing dudes that raped/murder/killed in the french revolution
Satan can manifest as male or female. The elites love them some Luciferian goddess Columbia (as in Columbia Pictures, District of Columbia, British Columbia, etc)
Turkey is owned and operated by the same evil scumbags as those that run the other countries.
NWO delende este.
I've said it before, the idea here is to turn natural allies into enemies. Get Turkey pitted against Russia, even though geopolitically an alliance makes MUCH more sense.
Yes, the Ottomans and Russia competed with each other. But lets not forget (and this is forgotten OFTEN) the Ottoman Empire was not 100% Muslim like we are constantly told. It was almost half Christian, half Muslim. The JANISSARIES were Christian conscripts (we like to call them 'slave soldiers', but really, they were conscripted, and given officer training). Janissaries controlled the cities (and served the Sultan directly), and the Turkish Muslim timarli sipahi, who controlled the countryside (and thus recruited from the countryside they controlled).
Isis was the well loved goddess of rebirth - not a devil!
Yup, Who ever heard of a combat search and rescue helicopter parking on a hill top and shutting down it's engines in a hot zone. Than getting an antique TOW up its bung. That ain't right, where were the crew, out taking a smoke break? Phoney war right up to the coming Nevelle C type fake peace agreement. Always stick to the pre written script, you have to cry peace first, than unleash el.
Yes, because Russia is well known for producing suicide pilots who are happy to die for mother Russia.
Fuck off.
Unlike Turkey which is actually known to have produced suicide bombers.
"...Let's put on our thinking caps shall we?..."
Hmmm... posts like this always seem to go south in a hurry, Poundsand. But - hey - it's fight club. Carry on.
"...The Russian's are flying extremely close to the Turkish border, and the Turks send up some F-16's..."
It's not like they scrambled an F-16 (there was only one) when they saw an unknown blip approaching their border. The Turks have AWACS - they can see the Russian jets taking off, and knew where the Russians were going after their turn west and probably what they were bombing.
The Russians did the exact same thing about twenty or thirty times in the last week and had been concentrating on the same general area. Note that Turkey didn't claim Russia violated thier airspace twenty or thirty times in the last week, and Turkey had no reason to expect the Russian pilots to do anything different this particular time. They never warned Russian pilots '10 times' about approaching Turkish airspace any time in the last week or last month because it would be stuipid and it didn't happen. Russia has been operating 'extremely close' to the Turkish border for weeks without violating Turkish airspace.
The only thing Turkey bitched about four days ago was that Russia was bombing Syrian Turkomen head-choppers (and the assorted Chechen, Uzbek and Uighur head-choppers), not that Russia was violating their airspace or threatening Turkey somehow.
The Turkish F-16 turned to directly intercept the Su-24's course while both aircraft were over fifty miles and ten minutes from the supposed incursion. Turkey had never sent F-16s to intercept Russian jets the dozens of other times they flew that exact same route. Yesterday was different: Turkey planned on having that F-16 there the precise moment the Su-24 came closest to the Turkish border.
"...Don't think for a moment that the Russian's didn't know they were there..."
Russia and Turkey are not at war. There would be absolutely no reason for the Russian pilots to worry about Turkish F-16s flying anywhere around the Turkish border. The Su-24 was lining up for a bombing run, not worried about being shot at by a Turkish, American, French or any other nation's aircraft. They wouldn't have thought it the least bit unusual for Turkey to buzz down and take a look at them from across the border. That's probably happened a hundred times since Russia has been operating there.
"...nor that the Turk's hadn't used their radar to search for the Russians..."
What the hell does that even mean? The Turks don't 'search' for the Russians - they have four AWACS. They see ever damn thing that's going on in Syrian airspace real-time, 24x7. Are you suggesting the Russians were pretending to be oblivious to that?
"...No counter-measures for a single missile?..."
No, because this isn't a movie. There's plenty of ways to employ an air-to-air missile in combat that doesn't make the target's aircraft realize what's happening until it's too late. The Turkish F-16 was well above and - at the point of intersection - somewhat behind the Su-24 about 4 km away. Five to ten seconds flight time until impact. They can launch a air-to-air missile in passive IR-seeking mode without even turning on the F-16 targeting radar. The usual countermeasure for IR-seeking missiles is to drop flares, but you have to know it's an IR-seeking missile and that it is intended for you. The Su-24 probably has countermeasures for active/passive radar-guided missiles and automatic countermeasures for SAMs, but they weren't expecting to get ambushed at close range by an IR air-to-air missile. The Su-24 and it's EW and countermeasures were not set up for close-range dogfighting. They probably weren't even carrying air-to-air missiles. Turkey wouldn't have dared to try that on a Russian fighter designed for such encounters. That kind of ambush would only work on something configured for ground attacks.
"...Looks to me like the Russians knew this one was coming, and let it happen..."
Time to screw on your thinking cap a little tighter. Russia is not going to use its aircraft or pilots for bait, and the pilots of an Su-24 (or any other aircraft) wouldn't obey such a stupid order anyways. You're getting them confused with a 19-year-old head-chopper on scopolamine driving a car bomb. Russia is only guilty of thinking the Turks wouldn't be so fucking stupid as to ambush one of their Su-24s.
"...Now there is a reason to bring in those S400's, to protect their aircraft. They bring that in and light it up, will be interesting to see what the Turks (cough, cough - US) does then. Wonder what happens to all those sorties the US says it is doing to stop ISIS..."
Russia has already brought in their S-300 equivalent air defense systems - they're strapped to the deck of the Moscva missile cruiser of the coast of Lattakia. And they have already 'lit it up' - the Turk F-16s are nowhere to be seen. Erdogan ordered them grounded. And unlike Erdogan, Putin has no reason to track or threaten U.S. aircraft in Turkey or Syria. Russia is not at war with the U.S. and does not expect a U.S. aircraft to ambush a Russian aircraft to 'protect Turkish airspace'. That's only something an insane tin-pot dictator like Erdogan would do. Russia isn't worried about surprise attacks from U.S. aircraft and likewise, the U.S. isn't worried about an attack from Russian aircraft - neither side is going to stage an ambush and start WWIII over Turkey.
"...Don't expect much more until additional assets are in place. For both sides..."
Russia added fighters to protect their aircraft from another feeble Turkish provocation and moved the Moscva in. The U.S. will add nothing - it has everything it needs in place and isn't worried about Russia. Turkey has AWACS and F-16s - there's nothing more they can add but someone with a brain in charge who doesn't live in a palace built on the bodies of dead Turks. Maybe his military will take that psycho out before he gets everybody killed. You can believe nobody in the Turkish AF is stupid enough to be celebrating the successful ambush of a Russian ground attack aircraft. Some Turkish AF general might be gloating, but he just made every one of his pilots a 'potential threat' to Russia.
Words from the surviving pilot:
Rescued Russian Pilot Says There Was No Warning Before F-16 Opened Fire
"There were no warnings. Not via the radio, not visually. There was no contact whatsoever. That's why we were keeping our combat course as usual. You have to understand what the cruising speed of a bomber is compared to an F-16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have shown themselves by heading on a parallel course. But there was nothing. And the rocket hit our tail completely unexpectedly. We didn't even see it in time to take evasive maneuvres."
http://www.russiadefence.net/t4711p120-russian-military-involvement-and-...
Thanks.
That's why we were keeping our combat course as usual.
An aggressor on a combat course can be construed as only...a threat.
It matters not what Nation State Flag which they fly. It does not matter what ensign is painted onto the hull of their aircraft.
A pilot on a combat course outside of the boundaries becomes a legitimate target and upon any incursion needs to be dispatched, neutralized, immediately.
If an TU 160 was on a combat course, a Bomb Run, heading toward Los Angeles, and if I were in command of any coastal defenses then, upon the very moment of incursion, I would splash that bitch without warning. I would be remiss in my duties, if I were an Officer in command, NOT to do so.
If someone decides to break down my door and enter my home then he will be met with a searing hot load of lead...without warning.
That pilot should have kept is mouth shut and his superiors are idiots for not vetting what was spoken.
It was not a patrol that went awry...It was a combat run.
The pilot said so...himself.
Hopefully the Russian GRU has it agents combing these pages also.
There needs to be some fallout over this revelation.
That was beautiful Paveway IV, thank you!
This is what they were going to bomb:
ALQAEDA LEADER AL-JAWLAANI TARGET OF RUSSIAN AIRCRAFT SHOT DOWN BY ISLAMIST TERRORIST ERDOGHANhttp://syrianperspective.com/2015/11/exclusive-to-syrper-alqaeda-leader-...
Al Qeada? Who runs Al Qeada? See Eye Aye.
Well said. I am dying to hear a single "journalist" ask any NATO talking head or national leader if going straight from Guard calls to launching a missile is the normal escalation of force for ROEs for a 1.7nm incursion.
The answer of course is f-ck no. It skips options like flying a close-parallel course and giving hand signs, maneuver in front and pop flares, or spiking with your air-to-air intercept radar.
One thing to add. The possibility of US involvement http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/11/the-context-of-yesterdays-turkish-a...
Poundsand is not a ground pounder, not a fly boy, not a sea dog. That I can tell immediately.
Meaningless - his opinion is just as valid as mine. I just think he just mis-characterized the situation in his post enough to reply.
+1 You are far too nice. You destroyed his argument.
I hope he returns the favor - this isn't suppose to be an echo chamber. It's Fight Club. I came here expecting to get punched in the face. Nobody here should suffer my bullshit just because I can type fast and use Google. I can train a fucking chimp to do that.
You got that right Paveway IV. Love the ZH spirit in general, and the collective knowledge, wisdom and insight shared here.
"Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another."
Proverbs 27:17
Actually, I'd challenge you on that! I have seen no evidence that a Chimp has the ability to read english or indeed any other language.
You may be able to train a chimp to press certain buttons on a computer but to expect a chimp to realistically do research to support or destroy an argument is sheer folly.
Punch you in the face?? I enjoyed your tear down of that silly argument he presented. As if a Russian Pilot and Co Pilot would accept a suicide mission. These guys are professionals and intelligent and they would never accept having their arse burned by an A2A missile
And, this reestablishes 'borders' as being the boundaries. Turkey admitted to it, now Russia is going to enforce it. No more flights across this border.?.? Going to be interesting to what happens next.
"Erdogan has just shot himself in the ass. He’s enjoyed a very friendly relationship with Putin for a long time, but now he’s got an angry powerful neighbor instead."
Not quite.
Turkey/Russia 101
http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/11/the-motive-how-russias-enemies-benef...
My guess is that in a time of "war", should Russia be denied access to the Strait, then the "strait" becomes an ocean pretty quickly.......
Closure of straits: That's why cruise missiles were invented.
This is one of the things I brought up last night in my comments. Turkey can claim any action by Russia is an act of war and close the strait to Russia.
And NATO will enforce it for Turkey. It takes very little to sink any enemy ship trying to sail through.
Putin is playing checkers to their chess. If he moves on Turkey in some way, then several moves later after the strait is closed, they make their move on Crimea.
Putin can complain about how it is not fair - for all the good it will do.
Russsia/Putin are now going to reap what they have sowed. They not only abandoned their allies (Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Serbia, Syria, EUke and others) but in an attempt to stay in the zionist good graces Russia/Putin actually assisted in the destruction of those once strong allies. Russia/Putin voted for or constented to no fly zones, sanctions, forced them to give up weapons (including missiles and chemical weapons) naval blockades and other actions.
Russia/Putin refused to honor their contract with Syria and Iran and supply the S300 systems to them and when their allies were attacked (such as Iraq and Libya) Russia even refused to provide technical advice on how to fight better.
Now Russia is alone. China does not even trust Russia and will not commit to come to Russia's aid.
Putin agreed to the sanctions and naval blockade against Yemen recently. Only Iran helps them.
Or maybe Putin is really a part of the NWO (or wants to be). We do know that the jewish have a position in Russia far greater than their number of citizens would predict, just like in the US.
I'm sorry, you wanna tell me it's Putin trying to stay in the zios' good graces??? lol...
This reads like an excellent shill piece.
Russia did not give up on its ally Serbia, the pro-Western Serbian government gave up on its own people. Russia did more for Serbs in Kosovo than spineless crooks like Tadic.
Russia allowed them to be bombed and slaughtered. Then enslaved.
You're right. But that was in 1998/99. Putin didn't become president until March 2000 - and his first act was to clean house of all the traitorous ashkenazis who were pillaging Russia and destroying her alliances.
Blaming Putin for Belgrade is dumb.
Peakoil
20 tanks (probably old M-60s like I was with 4 decades ago)
The Kornet is just as good as the TOW and maybe faster to reload a missile than the TOW. Very effective on Saudi type Humvees and tanks in Yemen. Those tanks will burn just fine.
And you can offically add ground troops to that list.
Mistake? Putin looks like the adult in the room amongst the bungling westerners and barbaric muzzies. The fact that NATO has been so careless that we've made Russia look like a restrained, responsible party goes to show what a failure our foreign policy has been in this region.
Putin reminds me of a Bond villain. An evil genius bent on expanding his sphere of influence. He attacks his objectives with great intelligence.
The only thing is that in this Bond film, James Bond is a pathological liar who is constantly huffing ether and murdering innocent men, woman and children. Bond is gallivanting around the ME and stealing everywhere he goes. Bond is leaving nothing but Chaos, widows, orphans, refugees, smoldering ruins and annihilated world heritage sites in his wake.
So Putin isn't a good guy in this film, he just looks civilized and has some class compared in a vacuum to the actions of the supposed good guys.
I don't think Putin is a force for good BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION. I merely think Putin in this particular scenario is behaving in a rational way in accordance with international law. Nato? Not so much, especially Turkey's recent actions.
Well of course he does. Bond is pure Russophobic propaganda designed to make any successful Russian leader look like a Bond villain.
Now you are being just plain nasty with that economic warfare shit. I like it, I like it. FORWARD
For what it's worth....an audio recording of the supposed Turkish warnings to the Russian fighter jet who have been operating for weeks in the same zone.....the whole incident is a major 'bring Russia into making a mistake' incident but thus far, Putin has played very well by not attacking, but exposing the western deceit.....
‘I knew it was going to happen’: MEA pilot recalls downing of Russian jet
He only needs subs and cruise missiles. Ivan cant easily move that many tanks and doesnt need to anyway
Latina Lover
The USSA & NATO & their suppliers are the worst polluters
in every way,
nuclear, chemical, biological, and mechanical destroyers of the environment
and ecology.
An alternative explanation is that they are greedy sociopaths who head
organizations and corporations founded on insane and myopic goals,
and are incapable of real concern about anything
except
their immediate materialism and power.
Every year, the US military uses 100 million barrels of oil!
This should be the first clue to anyone with frontal lobes as to why peak oil and climate change are utter bullshit.
The NATO destruction of the RuAF SU-24 Fencer and Turkish murder of the Russian servicemen
http://thesaker.is/the-nato-destruction-of-the-ruaf-su-24-fencer-and-tur...
Intelligence and Militarey analisis
Hah, hardly. Most active naval vessels are now nuclear, meaning they don't need diesel-powered supply ships nearly as often to remain at station, and they don't emit a shit-ton of carbon dioxide.
Their jets do use up quite a bit, but that amount pales in comparison to daily commercial flights in the world.
Their vehicles are hardly efficient, Abrams tanks are about as fuel efficient as a bonfire, but they only have about 300,000 vehicles total, and not all of those are field armor. 300,000 sounds like a lot, but then when you compare it to the number of vehicles in daily use just in the United States alone, which probably numbers in the hundreds of millions considering the wikipedia count is above 220 million just existing in the U.S...
The U.S. military probably emits less carbon dioxide daily than UPS and Fedex.
Probably? Probably Not! !
US military is 5% of global emissions. They are 0.0002% of population. So on per capita basis, they use 25,000 times global average! !
What else dont you know?
You're off by a factor of 100 but I get your point (7 billion * 0.0002 / 100 = 14,000).
Hah, hardly. Most active naval vessels are now nuclear, meaning they don't need diesel-powered supply ships nearly as often to remain at station, and they don't emit a shit-ton of carbon dioxide.
As a veteran of the Nuclear Navy, I disagree. They are maintaining a fleet of less than 100 nuclear ships, out of a total fleet of approximately 430. That's less than 25%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_navy#cite_note-7
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/our_ships.asp
I agree that the vehicles are ineffecient and create a lot of pollution. But, who cares? This is a red herring discussion that is focusing on irrelevence.
My guess is ISIS getting supply line from Turkey. Russia air strikes were getting this slowed to stopped. Elites wanted Terriorist war to go on longer, they shot down Russian plane. Now the Turks beefs up the border, via some political bullshit about Russia violating their "soverignity", and supply lines are running again. Now the war continues on longer and bigger.
News for you Erdogan - you lost your soverignity long ago when sold your soul to the Israeli/US devils war machine.
I think that door has been slamed shut.
"The USSA's military is the single largest producer of carbon"
Are you trying to tell me that burning innocent human civilians is a carbon emitter?
Latina Lover you are one of the most moronic frequent posters I've seen here in years. The elitists don't give a shit about anything other than making money and control; most of them are too stupid to even begin to understand the science behind climate change, much like yourself. The military isn't even close to the biggest producer of carbon dioxide, that title goes to animal agriculture. Farm animals, specifically cows, create more CO2 than the entire global transportation sector. The UN published a study about this nearly a decade ago. You are a fucking toolbox and anytime I read anything you post I feel like I just dropped about 40 IQ points.
Cows do not create more CO2 than any other air breather, idiot.
They create more METHANE as they ferment the starches into sugars in their digestive tract.
You cannot even get your Al Gore Global Warming Talking Points straight.
The US Military does leave a "Carbon Footprint". So what? He threw out a Red Herring, grasping at straws, and you bit.
That same Greenhouse Gas blanket which traps Thermal Energy alsp reflects the same amount of Thermal Energy emitted by our Sun, and striking the atmosphere of the Earth, back off into space. That Carbon Blanket does not act as a one way mirror.
Geothermal activity, energy, is the main driver of Climaye Change. And that is NOT CAUSED by man.
Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday,
'We have received information that in certain areas of Turkey, where terrorists feel at home, there is even an established market for human organs which are smuggled by terrorists from Syria, and those are body parts of the murdered Syrians.'
Freaking Psycos are running the world!
Call the rabbi and get an estimate.
do they have to be Halal body parts?
This is why it is madness for ME countries to be fucking with the Russians.
Did Erdogan not notice that Turkey has large, porous borders with Iran, Iraq and Syria? Russia can play the same game the US is doing, arming jihadis to destabilize Turkey.
That is what I think the payback will be. Putin will not foolishly attack a Nato member. There is no need. Once Syria is under control, the Syria/Iran/Russia alliance (which also controls Iraq) will move to destabilize Turkey and Saudi Arabia. It won't be hard. These govs already struggle to keep their people from chopping their heads off.
Remember, Saudi Arabia threatened to attack the Sochi olympics with terrorists. I don't think Putin forgot.
Santa Claus/Ded Moroz will be visiting the Kurds a little early this year.
Politicians.
That's what he wrote
They are running the Ukraine playbook step by step.
Even Prince Chuckles is spinning the Syria conflict as 'climate change' being in part, the root of the problem.
.
'Britain's Prince Charles has blamed climate change in part for the Syrian war and warned that global warming could exacerbate similar conflicts worldwide.'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/24/prince-char...
Retarded inbreed
Genetic abnormalities frequently give rise to a mental retardation phenotype.
Recent advances in resolution of comparative genomic hybridization and genomic sequence annotation has identified new syndromes at chromosome 3q29 and 9q34. The finding of a significant number of copy number polymorphisms in the genome in the normal population, means that assigning pathogenicity to deletions and duplications in patients with mental retardation can be difficult but has been identified for duplications of MECP2 and L1CAM. Novel autosomal genes that cause mental retardation have been identified recently including CC2D1A identified by homozygosity mapping.
http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/suppl_2/R110.full
superb
OK, so does that mean you can un-tard a retard?
no such thing as untardiness
The undeniable truth about the bullshit that is climate change explained and quantified very elegantly by Lord Christopher Monckton:
Climate Change Hoax by the Numbers
That's why I strongly favor genetic screening, prior to issuing Marriage Licences.
Some defective genes just have to stop propagating. It's society's job to ascertain that before they multiply, not afterwards.
Note that the first and most vociferous to object, will be those who fear that their genes are among these types. "If your genes are not defective, you have nothing to hide".
One of the fundamental points about natural selection is that required "fitness" changes over time, as conditions change. A gene may be "defective" today, but in high demand tomorrow. Right now in our society the traits of avarice and psychopathy get you to the top. Tomorrow they will put you on the end of a rope. I hope.
Genetic screening prior to marriage...
You are more retarded than the inbreeds. Does one need a marriage license to have a baby?
“Next week, I will be joining President Hollande and world leaders in Paris for the global climate conference,” Obama said during his prepared remarks, which focused mostly on the efforts to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).
“What a powerful rebuke to the terrorists it will be, when the world stands as one and shows that we will not be deterred from building a better future for our children,” he added.
Short video of Egyptian news media discussing Obama's speech.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/UXodRLLkth4OMFG! That was hilarious. I'm pretty sure Mansour posts regularly on ZH - his rants seem so familiar.
LOL! More reasons to likee the Egyptians. I had great admiration for the Egyptian people when they marched against Obola/State Dept's Muslim Brotherhood goons.
Video is priceless.
Sounds like one of us. He is insane. Look at his wife -- she makes the decisions. Look at him working out -- like my little daughter. Must be trying to weaken his country. Didn't outright call him faggot nigger, but close.
Yes, tyranny for the children, lying for the children, public schools for the children, cellular and Wi-Fi signals for the children, 9/11 for the children, vaccines for the children, thought control for the children, political correctness for the children, Hollywood for the children. What more could the children need?
Abortion. It's for the children.
Madeline Allbright "It was worth it"
"
Emburdening by debt created priorly to their birth?
The focus of the elites is always on PROFIT, and AGW measures only further their control and as a result, PROFITS.
Except POWER and CONTROL are actually even more important than PROFIT!
They decided they can use 'Global Warming' as a completely arbitrary club to beat EVERY nation on Earth over the head with.
Well I'll see your "rebuke" and up it with CAUSE. Prince Phillip (or one of the Brit Royals) pontificating recently on the Tele said climate change caused terrorism.