Who Said It? "A Short-Term Border Violation Can Never Be A Pretext For An Attack"

Tyler Durden's picture


Turkey has a right to defend itself and its airspace, President Obama said on Tuesday after Ankara’s F-16s shot down a Russian Su-24 which Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan claims ventured into Turkish airspace for a grand total of 17 seconds. 

Similarly, Erdogan said on Wednesday that Turkey was simply acting to defend its security. 

Of course you can take everything Erdogan says with a grain of salt because if we’re being honest, he’s an autocrat and largely thanks to his government, Turkey is a tyrannical frontier market masquerading as a largely developed democracy. 

When it comes to NATO and the West you can always find a contradiction or two (or five) when it comes to foreign policy rhetoric which is why we weren’t at all surprised (although we were amused) with what we found when we decided to take a look back at what Erdogan said in 2012 after Assad’s air force shot down a Turkish F-4 phantom jet when it crossed into Syrian airspace.  

Here's a map showing the flight path of the F-4 and where it disappeared (via BBC):

And now, prepare yourself for some of the most epic hypocrisy ever to spew from the mouths of NATO and its allies. From BBC ca. 2012

Syria insists the F-4 Phantom jet was shot down inside Syrian airspace. The plane crashed into the eastern Mediterranean and its two pilots are missing.


Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat". "A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. 

Well, apparently it can, because that's exactly what Turkey did on Tuesday - use a 17 second incursion as an excuse to shoot down a Russian warplane.

But it doesn't stop there: 

In a statement, NATO's 28 members said the shooting down of the plane was "unacceptable" and they stood together with Turkey "in the spirit of strong solidarity".


Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said: "It is another example of the Syrian authorities' disregard for international norms."

It's funny - NATO didn't say Turkey had "disregarded international norms" on Tuesday. 

And finally: 

Turkey has also accused its neighbour of firing on a search and rescue plane looking for the F-4 Phantom jet, although it was not brought down.

Oh, you mean kind of like the Turkish-supported and US-armed FSA First Coastal Division did yesterday when they used an American-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and rescue helicopter killing one Russian Marine in the process?

Enough said.

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Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:14 | 6839114 Looney
Looney's picture

Happy Thanksgiggling to ya! ;-)


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:25 | 6839178 nuubee
nuubee's picture

And people in power expect anyone to believe what comes out of their mouths... lol

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:32 | 6839211 RafterManFMJ
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All they need is enough people to believe, or be dependent on them so they choose to pretend to believe. The percentage of people that have a clue is in the single digits. I know, I've talked to scores of them.


I'm done with them; Let 'em burn.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:48 | 6839313 chunga
chunga's picture

The partisan shit is incredible. Blue team Obama retards are now war-hawks, and many of the Red team dopes now support Putin.

Never trust anybody that votes because you never what other retarded shit they might do.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:40 | 6839570 Mister Ponzi
Mister Ponzi's picture

At least they didn't shoot the Turkish pilot then...

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 16:34 | 6839809 BobPaulson
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An F-4 Phantom? Were there no F-104's to scramble that day? What did they shoot it down with, a blunderbuss?

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:57 | 6839355 sam i am
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The Sake’s Community Announcement on the Essential Saker Book and the Call for Networking Help




Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:39 | 6839561 Flagit
Flagit's picture

I really used to love The Saker. But lately, John Rambo seems to be sourcing a lot of his sitereps to obviously biased websites.

If he was presenting them as "haha, look at these idiots" it would be different. They are comming across as fact.

Totally detracting from the point of The Saker. To get out the truth, that MSM will not print.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:21 | 6839159 Salah
Salah's picture

meanwhile, secret ISIS bomb-making lair littered with US weapons


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:43 | 6839278 DogOfSinope
DogOfSinope's picture

Just in 2014 Turkey violated Greek airspace 2244 times. That's on average 40 times per day.



Filthy hypocrites!

But, we are all infidels to Erdogan. Less than dogs. Anything goes. No ethical obligation.


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:24 | 6839175 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

Fogh Rasmussen another psychopath that should be in the dock with Blair, Bush and the rest of the gang.

NATO = North Atlantic Terrorist Organization.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:45 | 6839294 farflungstar
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I wish I could get a copy of this band's album.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 17:28 | 6840024 Fish Gone Bad
Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:26 | 6839488 Noplebian
Noplebian's picture
WW3 – Turkey/ISIS/Russia – The Countdown Has Begun......


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:13 | 6839108 Anonymous User
Anonymous User's picture

Turkey just put herself on a straight path towards a world of hurt.

And damn that's gonna hurt bigtime:


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:16 | 6839132 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture


NEVER click on Anonymous Loser's porn links.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:19 | 6839146 chunga
chunga's picture

Heads up for tyler, the "abuse" email doesn't work.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:27 | 6839173 Lumberjack
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Chunga,  I have had issues as of late too. Some floating ad about Secure Count and some difficulty logging in. Patience my friend.


Now moving along... Who said this? "It Doesn't Really Matter"...


Hiilary has a very big problem... I want all women voters to take NOTE.


Followers Of A Mysterious Turkish Islamic Cleric Have Donated Heavily To Hillary’s Campaign And Family Charity


The largest donation from a leader of the Gulen movement, which is operated from Pennsylvania’s Pocono Mountains by a moderate Muslim cleric named Fethullah Gulen, came from Recep Ozkan. (RELATED: Here’s A Map Of Radical Mosques In The U.S. [Interactive])

A former president of the Gulen-linked Turkish Cultural Center, Ozkan gave between $500,001 and $1,000,000 to the Clinton Foundation in recent months, the charity’s website shows. He also served as a national finance co-chair last year for a pro-Clinton political action committee called Ready PAC.

According to Portland State University political science professor Birol Yesilada, who has studied the Gulen movement for more than 25 years, Ozkan is the New York liaison for the 74-year-old Gulen, who has lived in the Poconos since 1999 when he went into exile after he was accused of attempting to undermine Turkey’s secular regime in order to institute an Islamic state.


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:40 | 6839266 chunga
chunga's picture

Hill'rey is a filthy cow that belongs in prison. She has literally been involved in non-stop scandals for over 40 years.

It takes a hell of a nerve for Turkey to say anything about border violations since they've been flying into Syria uninvited and dropping bombs as part of this "coalition" of border violaters. It's absurd.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:37 | 6839552 btdt
btdt's picture

gulen in not a lightweight player.


gulen is deeper part of the deep state.


has done an amazing job of staying out of the limelight for decades.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:34 | 6839233 backwaterdogs
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That guy get s me everytime...

If he's making money off clicks then hats off....looking forward to next zh article Re trannys.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:13 | 6839427 vollderlerby
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Especially at work.  Reading ZH now becoming a hazard to your ability to make aliving because of this asshole.  Come on man.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 17:31 | 6840041 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Thanks. I was closing out tabs, and had a porn window open, and could not figure out how it got there. I guess it pays well.  Maybe its how the philiacband band makes money?

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 18:31 | 6840203 kiwidor
kiwidor's picture

for some reason my computer blocks them.    is it bad quality pron?

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:21 | 6839160 Haus-Targaryen
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I don't get it man.  Always the same link.  Why are you into some random dudes balls -- unless they are YOUR balls.  

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:26 | 6839190 Anonymous User
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Just lazy. :)))

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:33 | 6839226 Haus-Targaryen
Haus-Targaryen's picture

You should try something that isn't essentially the glorification of another man's genitalia.  

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:29 | 6839201 Bring the Gold
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Oh, I didn't click on it but if your latter scenario is correct I can only assume it's electron microscope filmography.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:25 | 6839177 I AM SULLY
I AM SULLY's picture

That's anal magic, isn't it?

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:14 | 6839116 kowalli
kowalli's picture

we hate you for your freedom - what a joke

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:40 | 6839265 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture

We now know without any doubt who that is.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:18 | 6839143 freddymercury
freddymercury's picture

Who said that that the anti-christ will come from Turkey. Is it this guy?

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:19 | 6839152 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Rescued pilot is confident they never entered Turkish airspace, first interview.


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:01 | 6839259 Flagit
Flagit's picture

It has been mentioned here by one or two others. Wish they would start beating that issue in to the ground.

Lets talk about the border. There are 2 arguments here, and according to each party, and they are both correct.

I want to see the Turkish version of the map, vs. the Syrian & Russian versions of the same map, complete with GPS coordinates.

Exactly WHICH border is being discussed here? I wanna see the fucking line, inch by inch, WITH COORDS!!!

See, this is more of the same fuckery! Confuse people with bogus arguments without addressing the actual issue.

The only thing I see western media willing to question is "Does this make Putin look bad?"


Unless I am misunderstand something, back in the 70's Syria shot down a Turkish plane, and as a result, just decided to take 5 miles of Syrian terriroty as its own.


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:03 | 6839379 Flagit
Flagit's picture


Interesting note,

Support to the PKK

Turkey has condemned Syria for supporting the PKK, which is listed as a terrorist organization internationally by a number of states and organizations, including the USA, NATO, and the EU and has claimed that Syria employed Alois Brunner to train Kurdish militants for attacks against Turkey.[6]

and also,

The PKK is listed as a terrorist organization internationally by several states and organizations, including the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) and the European Union.[33] However, countries such as India, China, Russia, Switzerland and Egypt have not designated the PKK as a terrorist organization.[34][35][36] Also, the United Nations has not listed the PKK as a terrorist organization.[37]

Basically, they use the term terrorist when it suits them.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:09 | 6839408 Flagit
Flagit's picture

Ok, who has links to Turkey claiming 5 miles of Syrian territory as a buffer zone?

My searches are buried with the latest happenings.

The US leeches are clamoring for a no-fly-zone as well, but just to run cover for the desert rats.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:54 | 6839632 Flagit
Flagit's picture


Touchdown, hole-in-one, three-pointer, hat-trick, Gooooallll!!!

Thx soo much for that.

Finally, the issue. I would love to see these  media ass-hats have a meltdown over this. Throw this up into their face and watch them slip into a seizure where the only word they can say through clenched teeth while choking on their own tongue is "Butcher!!".




Wed, 11/25/2015 - 17:26 | 6840019 Spiritof42
Spiritof42's picture

Turkey unilaterally moved its border? Jesus fuking Christ! This is what it was like before WWI. These crazies want a major war. All we can do is helplessly watch.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 16:40 | 6839836 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Cartography is an esoteric art, and a strategic tool of war planners.  My first experience with international law involved a boundary dispute (and two different maps) which was eventually resolved... with the ironic help of a map stolen from the other party.

The "inch by inch" aspect is also critical Thailand and Cambodia and have been laying land mines and shooting at each other while fighting over literal inches, trees and rocks around Preah Vihar temple for over 50 years.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:21 | 6839157 BadDog
BadDog's picture

All Western world leaders, along with Erdogan, seem to have gone completely, moon barking mad.


Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:26 | 6839176 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Former NATO Secretary General Rasmussen is a Squid employee. War means big payday for the Squid !



Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:26 | 6839189 I AM SULLY
I AM SULLY's picture

The nuclear bombs will be dropping soon - make sure you have lots of whiskey, oxy, and weed.

(it's about all you can do when it comes to that)

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:26 | 6839193 margincall575
margincall575's picture

I really wish someday Tyler would draw attention to what i feel and many is a game changer regarding what is going on. Millenium Report did a great bit on Francis Connely "JFK to 9-11 Everything is a Rich Man's Trick"  Fellow ZH ers. If you havent taken the time trust  me. , this will be some of the best time you will ever spend in regards even what we are seeing this very hour but the coverage of the past actually answers what is going on in the present. . Hitler=ISIS .. same thing.



Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:56 | 6839351 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"JFK to 9-11 Everything is a Rich Man's Trick"


Watched the first few minutes of it.  It absurdly claimed 8 shooters in Dealey Plaza.


One man with a gun shot Lincoln.  One man with a gun shot Garfield.  One man with a gun shot McKinley.  One man with a gun shot Teddy Roosevelt.  One man with a gun shot at Franklin Roosevelt.  One man with a gun shot Reagan.  One woman with a gun shot at Ford.

The evidence squarely pointed at Oswald, as to JFK.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 15:07 | 6839394 GhostOfDiogenes
GhostOfDiogenes's picture

Actually, both Lincoln and Kennedy were shot by their batshit wives.

Possibly using the same derringer.

Not the same bullets tho.

The fire ball that came out the right side of kennedy's head was a hot shot of burning metal.
The best snuff film evar!
Of course jacky was jewish and involved in the jesuits.

But no one ever talks about that for some, strange reason....

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 17:51 | 6840094 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

The limo got shot up.  There were more than 3 bullet holes.  Oswald "only" shot 3 rounds, so therefore someone else had to have shot the other rounds.

Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:32 | 6839198 Francis Marx
Francis Marx's picture
hypocrisy [hi-pok-ruh-see] /h??p?k r? si/   1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.     2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.     3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.
Wed, 11/25/2015 - 14:41 | 6839270 SharkBit
SharkBit's picture

Looks like USSA is pretty much the poster child.  And they just keep getting better and better and better.



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