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The Bitcoin Universe Explained
As evidenced by the Greek, Chinese, and now Argentine 'jumps', the world remains increasingly aware of the inevitable worth of fiat currencies and fears the desperate acts of governments as the react to that reality (and is looking for alternatives).
This infographic explains the wide ranges of the Bitcoin universe, accompanied with quotes from some of its best-known business leaders.
Courtesy of: Visual Capitalist
So from miners to merchants, the Bitcoin universe continues to expand dramatically as we noted previously, "There are more people in the world who need a currency they can trust, than there are people in the world who can trust their currency."
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Excellent article on Bitcoin by Hugo Salinas Price followed by some excerpts from the article (for some reason, the webpage doesn't load properly on the first try and needs to be reloaded):
More Dirt on the Bitcoin
...
"It is quite clear that the Bitcoin can only aspire to be a derivative of the dollar. It cannot aspire to anything greater: to have an independent, sovereign value, since, unlike gold, it is not something - something that has a physical existence."
...
"What future awaits the Bitcoin when the fiat dollar finally crashes? Without a dollar to refer to, what is a Bitcoin? It is 'the shadow of a dream'."
"What I am getting at is that the Bitcoin is a non-thing. It will never be able to have an independent, sovereign value on its own, because it is a non-thing, just like all currencies in the world today are non-things, including the (temporarily) Almighty Dollar, which became an absolute non-thing precisely on Sunday, August 15, 1971."
"I stand by my opinion that the Bitcoin is, in fact if not in intention, a fraud; it is an attempt to muscle-in on the enormous scam of universal fiat money, which is a curse upon mankind. And as a scam, it will go to the dust-bin of History, along with the world's present fiat money system."
"And as a scam, it will go to the dust-bin of History, along with the world's present fiat money system."
Unfortunately scams backed by powerful people (Climate change, peak oil, diamonds, printing money from thin air) have tremendous staying power as long as the scams work for the powerful.
A world where .01% own 50% of the world (and growing) is very different from a world where wealth is more broadly owned.
The 'tightly held' world is nothing like the world you were taught about or even the world you lived in 40 years ago.
There is no democracy as the thoughts of over 50% of the electorate (IQs < 100) are easily controlled. No constitution, either. There is little freedom of speech as all major media is owned and controlled directly by the .01%. There is no free market, as the .01% own the manipulators and regulators.
Over 50% of the people live permanently in Plato's cave which is owned by the .01%.
That is actually insane. Bitcoin can be a derivative of anything people want. Gold, silver, rubles, yuan, clams. In fact, the hold that dollar has on people is virtually all mental. The only value it has is that other people use it. It is the same with any currency. There is a benefit of convenience in using what everyone else uses. Most people use the dollar so it has value. Stop using the dollar and it goes to shit. Why do people have a problem with transacting electornically using Bitcoin and not using credit/debit cards? Becuase they do not grasp the reality.
Bitcoin is not a derivative of the dollar. I can trade bitcoins for goods and services that do not involve the dollar at all.
I have a doohickey that you want. I want to sell it.
You want to pay me in bitcoin.
I'm going to look at the dollar value of bitcoin to convert my price to a bitcoin plus premium equivalent.
Take your payment, convert it to dollars...for one significant reason.
Currently 99% of the world has no use for bitcoins.
"Currently 99% of the world has no use for bitcoins."
Correct. Yet the price is 364 dollars per Bitcoin. What happens to the price of Bitcoin when a few more percent realize its value like you didn't over 4 years ago when you were saying the same thing and the price was 5 bucks?
Bitcoin will be at best a medium of exchange. For now it is way too unstable in dollar pricing to serve as a store of value.
Gold will always be a superior store of value.
If Bitcoin settles down it could join Paypal, AppleBux and whatever as a recognized way to buy things all over the world. For now it is a gamblers delight. Unless it is being used as a smuggling device then I guess it might be superior....not a smuggler though so I'm not sure.
While a physical gold or silver coin is... one physical coin. As a techie, I find some bitcoin technologies interesting. However, for money, give me gold or give me silver.
This is an example of an informed opinion. Kudos.
My papa worked in the Bitcoin mines all his life. Got killed in a Bitcoin crash. My uncle, his brother...he died of 'green lung'...its a rough life to be a Bitcoin miners daughter...think I'll write a song now...
So in conclusion a handful of techies, none of them named Satoshi, got together and hatched a pyramid scheme called 'bitcoin'. They gathered up the lion's share for themselves before going public and then let other chumps 'mine' for the remaining table scraps.
As the mines went dry the only way to play was to buy at market value. The late arriving chumps got bubbled and lost while the original crew made 10 x $millions. Just like the the dudes who sold early in the internet bubble.
The late arrivals may not know it, but their subjective view does not change the objective fact that they were had and are poorer. In a desperate and ultimately futile attempt to recoup, some of these losers turn into advocates for the scam.
These sock puppets show up every time ZH throws out some bitcoin clickbait.
Correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is that even the very first bitcoins were mined as well. Of course it was a small group of cryptonerds mining in the beginning but even in the early days the software to allow one to mine could be downloaded at any time by anyone. Besides bitcoins were worth virtually nothing at the time and there was no guarantee for profit for those early miners. They were using real resources (computer hardware and electricity). Yeah free market!
Exactly, anyone who made money early on pretty much participated in the free market and got lucky.
If you started mining after bitcoin was around 70$ you pretty much missed the boat or broke even.
My case was I made about 5,000$ mining/broke even if you count my time and effort, I just got to the game too late.
I personally have about 3 bitcoins, I dont care if they go up or down at this point, would be nice if they went to a million$ each though, but if they did im sure people would be bitching about me having them lol, haters gona hate because haters are always late.
PS:I own way more silver than BTC.
Because
I can atleast bury it if GOVT Nazi goons start marching
The original guys may have 'mined' their bitcoins, but they did it at a time when only they knew of the concept. Very low hanging fruit.
They also let very powerful people have a meaningful share as well. The powerful preople provided the real world capital to start promotion and ignite the pyramid scheme and the sock puppets.
There was some luck, but so what?
Pyramid schemes and ponzi schemes are a pox on the free market as they prey on the ignorant.
How much is ZH getting to stoke this little pyramid scheme with weekly bitcoin clickbait?
Yea but all that happened already and now crypto currency is established.
Not like the formation of the U.S. dollar was a clean event, look at howmany people lost their shirts when gold was confiscated after the Fed-Take-over of America.
The Great Depression was pretty much caused by THE FED and MEMBER BANKS in order to steal all the gold from the U.S. population, they are probably surprised their ponzi currency the "Federal Reserve Note Toilet Paper" lasted as long as it did lol
Bitcoins are just Federal Reserve notes that cant be counterfeited or easily traced.
I personally think its atleast 1 step up from Central Bank Notes that are clearly being phased out.
People investing in bitcoin to make money (buying and holding coin) are the minority bitcoin users by now, everyone in it now is just using it for the most part to move money around without government intervention.
You can ship billions of dollars outside the country through bitcoin (if you doit slowly and right) without government even knowing... try passing the border with a briefcase full of hundreds..... huge risk of government or its goons just taking ur shit without just cause.
We used to live in a world that respected property rights, we no longer live in that world, bitcoin and encryption is the only way people can OWN money outside of the reach of TPTB currently, so long as the interent remains a wild wild west frontier.
You skipped an important part of the original paper currency trail.
When gold and silver were money, and the Federal Reserve note was a promise to pay to the bearer on demand, the value of the bank note in silver or gold.
The promise to convert the paper instrument was printed right on it as a contractual agreement.
Then, we got fucked off of the gold standard in 1971, and tyhe printing presses went wild with over leveraged printing, which morphed into TARP, quantitive easing, and other stupid paper pet tricks.
Along the way, the promise to pay paper currency value to the bearer on demand turned into " This note is legal tender for all DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE "
So, that means the paper has no value unless people believe it does. It also means it has no backing in reality. It is no longer money - it is a pale shadow, the idea that it is money, until people believe it no longer has value.
That has happened to every paper currency used in the history of man - good initially when backed by value in silver and gold. Inflated, manipulated, printed on margin, loses value, loses the faith of the users, and dies in hyperinflation.
Crypto currency just takes total control of all transactions so the powers that be can tax, NIRP, or transaction fee any and all transactions. They can also very easily re-value the currency with a keystroke - who will care, when they think crypto currency volatility is normal ?
Sorry, but you can keep your brave new world.
Physical is better, and value is why.
you are so clueless
instead of learning you just keep blindly spouting nonsense
but universe always balances itself, and people who learn and understand the benefits of technological advancements take away wealth from people who are lazy to learn
bitcoin is nearly opposite of a pyramid scheme in a mathematical sense. because bitcoins are algorithmically made scarce, no exponential benefit is derived from introducing new users to use of it. there is a quantitative benefit in having additional interest or demand, but this is in no way exponential
op should've been about blockchain technology instead of focusing on bitcoin
I have made my first bitcoin purchase at www.overstock.com
A Christmas gift. It was easy and I got a good price for the item.
When Bitcoin was LOW, I jumped in. I got a good return for my starter investment, and some to spare for future investments.
No big deal.
I don't post much here anymore, but figured I'd throw in my 2 satoshis.
1) World governments hate what Bitcoin stands for. But they generally tolerate it to some degree. That has and will continue to change. Originally, China turned a blind eye. Bitcoin climbs to $1k. We can thank Chinese gambler hysteria for this. China then cracks down. Bitcoin freefalls. MtGox implodes. Freefall. Hard fork scare. Freefall. Government capital controls. Surge. Although the protocol itself is sound and probably will be for decades, the human element always seems to sabotage the reality of Bitcoin. When governments decide to really marginalize Bitcoin, all they need to do is ban it, or tax it, or throw exchange operators in jail, or setup Bitcoin stings, and so on. Things would have to get very bad for people to risk jail time in order to avoid capital controls. I'm sure that's coming.
Google and Facebook are great examples of how incredibly powerful technology was quickly usurped by the government to satisfy their goals. Facebook and Google would be a mere shadow of their current incarnations if they didn't play ball with Uncle Sam. Bitcoin will be no different. It will either bend to their will, or made irrelevant. My money is on the latter. I can see it now: "ISIS uses Bitcoin to move money around!". Just wait.
2) Personally, Bitcoin doesn't offer me anything over one click shopping on Amazon. Click, done, boom. Bitcoin does not shine as a microtransaction platform. In fact, it's flat out lousy in that respect.
3) Bitcoin offers no dispute mechanism. The argument is that this is a feature. Well, when you consider the finality of signing a transaction, a lot of people want to have that mechanism. I shudder at the thought of an inexperienced Bitcoin user getting completely cleaned out because they weren't protecting their private keys. People wonder why it takes bank wires, checks, and so on such a long time to clear at the bank. Well, it's because there is a chain of responsibility and a lot of checks and double checks that must be performed before the transaction is finalized. You might hate that. Personally, I want there to be a mechanism for disputing transactions.
4) The government is interested in Bitcoin for one reason: the blockchain technology. They don't care about the existing Bitcoin ledger floating around out there. Makes no difference to them. At the end of the day, its simply a non-sanctioned digital ledger. All you own is an entry. Nothing more. The government will start from scratch and sell the public on their own version of Bitcoin, complete with automatic tax auditing, the ability to freeze money readily, and so on. There will be holdouts, for sure. That's fine.
At the end of the day, ALL currency relies on faith. If I hoard pet rocks, I do so because I expect them to hold their value until I decide to trade them. Dollars, Bitcoins, gold and so on are all identical in this respect. This means that you might as well plan to use whatever currency the rest of the people will be using. This will ultimately be some currency backed by a government. It may stink, but that is reality.
5) Although it's not a knock on Bitcoin itself, the ironic goal of most Bitcoin hoarders is the eventual conversion of Bitcoin back to fiat to buy shit.
6) For those of you who aren't aware, the US already has made Bitcoin relatively painful to use thanks to the IRS. All coversions of Bitcoin into USD, products, etc. must be reported to the IRS. No exceptions. That cup of coffee you bought with Bitcoins has to be reported to the IRS, I kid you not. Now, you may say, "fuck the man". Fine, but now you've given the government a great excuse to kick down your door.
It's funny - if governments were free from corruption, Bitcoin would have minimal importance. But as we live in a world governed by currency manipulators, you can be assured that Bitcoin will be eviscerated before your eyes - just when we need it most. But, that's not to say you shouldn't throw money at it and dump on some suckers like coinhead when the time is right.
I've been saying since 2011 that BTC is NOT an investment. Its value is no more or less than what it saves in transaction fees for moving money without middlemen. That's quite a lot of money if everyone uses BTC for online transactions, and if banks use it for wires, etc. But they don't all, and it's not worth even that 5% margin yet, if it ever will be. It's good for as a method of payment, in and out. That's it.
Also, the hard fork wasn't just a scare, it was a harbinger of things to come if you're holding a lot of virtual currency. That doesn't belong in the same category as being Goxed. It belongs in the category of a 51% attack which will happen at some point.
Blockchain-based currency including Bitcoin is a wonderful innovation for moving value quickly and efficiently. It's a terrible investment even for serious problem-gamblers like many of the people on this site.
Nice post a few points in response. I own a few bitcoins and have made about 50% return and am holding onto them.
1. Eyesis use bitcoins narrative has already come out of fox news etc woodwork.
2. 21 inc just launched the platform that arguably will facilitate micro transactions. Basically if successful, their distributed hardware will constitutes a huge mining operation and they will then put free transaction s in their blocks. I believe micro transactions will be doable using this or another strategy god knows when.
3.agreed, but there is nothing to stop banks or centralized institutions operating on the bitcoin layer to offer this like before. Bitcoin may not be the layer for every coffee in the world the USP is predictable ineditable inflation that will never be above 4% from next summer. Bitcoins inflation is halved every 4 years.
4. The processing power keeping bitcoin secure is 100,000x the top 500 supercomputers ability COMBINED. It's spread across countries and decentralized. This is why it is hard for another coin to usurp its position especially a government controlled one. Nobody has a computer that powerful.
5. Only because most shops accept fiat. There is a new bitcoin debit card that allows you to spend your bitcoins in every visa accepting shop. Ultimately if more people put faith in bitcoin and it is more accepted there will be no need to change to fiat and this will save merchants and consumers more.
6. TPTB won't give up power easily, but nobody can beat truth and maths forever. For now it's cool tech and way better odds than a lottery ticket. IMO. Glad I didn't keep that money in Euro or Dollars and this is just the beginning.
"Facebook and Google would be a mere shadow of their current incarnations if they didn't play ball with Uncle Sam. Bitcoin will be no different."
And you'll know bitcoin is playing ball when "Federal Reserve Note" and "In God We Trust" is stamped on each and everyone of them.
#4, The processing power that is currently used is ARBITRARY. A couple dozen desktop PCs is all you really need. like when bitcoin first started.
They have artifically made mining difficult to intentionally SLOW THE PROCESS. Has NOTHING to do with security.
And a reinforcement to his point #3 re private keys...
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/themargin/2013/12/23/tv-anchors-bitcoin-gift-certificates-stolen-while-on-air/
{edit}
Oh, and as to the originial article, not a damned thing was explained. I naturally went to the ZH comments and saw the Whtie Paper Reference. Sure enough, Yen provided a link (I didn't see it until AFTER I asked a prior commentor for a link.)
ZH articles are sometimes bullshit, but the commenters can identify it pretty well.
haha "ban" bitcoin, you crack me up
look how well that ban worked for bittorrent
(and the banksters and their lackeys tried everything)
once the cats out of the bag its out of tha bag
there's no going back now that the technology has been invented and is out there, released as open source! thats pretty significant
Correct. Once the printing press was invented there was no un-inventing it regardless of how bad the Vatican wanted to control what people read.
You mistake a government ban for a private, commercial dispute in terms of bittorrent.
Torrents could stop in minutes. All they have to do is block all torrent headers at internet switches.
Same with Bitcoin, just block all headers and addresses involved with bitcoin. It's irrelevant if the CONTENT of the message is encrypted, you can't encrypt the address.
And government could easily make conversion from digital currency to their cash illegal. Then how do you get your cash in and out? Dealing with an anonymous figure in a back alley?
Sure you could potentially get around it. But the vast majority of people would abandon it as not worth their hassle.
you dont seem to grasp the technology behind either bittorrent or bitcoin
they've tried everything to kill bittorrent, but short of destroying internet there is no way to kill decentralized networks
all technological attack vectors can and are eliminated by more technological advancements, improvements and inventions
just watch ebay/amazon/etc scramble once openbazaar goes live :D
once shit's obsolete its done for no matter what the dinosaurian flatearthers try to do (you know like they tried with fire, clothes, wheel, printing press, engines, airplanes, electronics, computers, computer networks, etc)
there's always some dumb crab motherfucker trying to pull us right back down, like the ones throwing their feces at one of our smarter ancestors who decided to climb down from a tree
i'm pretty sure once we reach technological singularity the fucker denialists will just keep screaming it should be outlawed, etc etc while they keep using all the technological inventions themselves, hypocrites
i mean if you hate technological progress, just crawl back to a cave, stop using clothes, tools and fire, or better yet climb back onto a tree since using caves is a technological progress
No the GOVERNMENT hasn't tried to kill bittorrent, ONLY private companies.
YOU don't understand the difference.
on point #3- The length of time it takes checks to clear is not due to any validations, this can be done almost instantly today. The delay is artificially introduced to keep you, the non jew, from moving money around too quickly and gain an unfair advantage over the jew. I small amount of research will confirm this point. The person that carelessly drops his wallet full of cash is the same as sharing your public/private key. Cryptocurrency (maybe not bitcoins) is an evolution in the way money is exchanged and valued.
Henry Ford once said, "If I had asked what they wanted, they would have said faster horses"
This post has great thinking, I wish I could upvote it, but I'm not into the racism stuff. Why don't you post the racist stuff separately from the good financial content next time.
On point #4 - That's wrong. The dollar is the digital currency you speak of and it's already in place. Blockchain's distributed structure is only useful for resisting attack in a context where anyone can join the network and for achieving consensus among anonymous peers. Government doesn't need to worry about those concerns. It will just use the standard client/server, authoritarian, hierarchical model of running a ledger within a closed, private network as government-authorized banks currently do.
Do you understand how tenuous all this is? The system we live in, I mean...Something like Bitcoin, or the 'block chain', etc, can only function when all other systems are up and running. All things tech depend on the type of society and economy we seem to be rapidly moving away from.
The labor and supply-chains for high-tech are incredibly complex and fragile. We only have this stuff because we've had a couple of generations of incredible prosperity which has allowed for the types of trade and idea-exchange which gave us the computer and cell phone...
A feudal society of haves and have-nots could never produce or maintain the internet. The coming generations may inherit all this wonderful 'stuff', but will quickly lose the ability to use it in any meaningful way. Plenty of knowledge has been forever lost during times of social upheaval historically, it can happen again.
A valid observation. I was in Liberia several times between 3 and 5 years ago, just a few years after their 18 year civil war.
There is no infrastructure left, no power, no power grid, no Internet, no TV, no water, no phones. There's a cell system, but no data. And the cell system is unreliable, it goes out when it rains, or heavy mist. It's all microwave between towers, and rain and water interrupts the signs. The only Internet is satellite uplink with large dish. A 4' dish isn't large enough during the rainy season, connection is extremely slow or not existent. You need a 12' dish for reliable Internet.
Credit cards and electronic banking? Yeah, right. Cash, and only US or Liberian dollars, preferably US dollars.
When I was first there 5 years ago, there were only 2 gas stations in the entire country. Either you had your own own supply trucked in from the single distributor in the country, or you could buy glass jars of something they said was gas, from roadside venders.
Supplies of everything was non existent, if you wanted something, you needed it shipped in. Either by shipping container, which took 4 to 6 months, or you could pick up your shipment at the courier office in a couple weeks. There was only 3 flights in/out of the country per week at that time.
Food? Arrange for your own imports. There were almost no domestic animals in the country, and no wild animals larger than their large rats. Everything else had been eaten years before. Almost no domestic agricultrue, except some small personal plots. Large scale farming didn't work because no fuel, tractors, seed or fertilizer. And besides, everything grown would be stolen before it could be harvested. Fences with razor wire? Yeah, good for a month before they too were stolen.
Things have changed today and it's getting better. But remember the Ebola outbreak? Borders were sealed and most flights suspended for a couple months.
All the things you mention that we take for granted were missing.
We had a black out here recently. No power for the whole town. I went shopping with some fiat [ yes worthless bollox ] , which worked. Bitcoin would have been useless. People forget that a lot of the world does not have internet or constant power. To me, Bitcoin is not so much eletist, as created by people who have never gone without. Who believe power will always previal, and the governments would never shut off areas of the net. I am not so convinced. It always surprises me, that terrorists [ not sure they exist ] never attack infrastructure like power stations, media organisatioins, transport. I wonder why? But if they did, then bitcoin would become less tasty ..
I still see it as a means to make quick international money transfers anonymously, but not for any long term storage. Too much risk from hackers and crooked exchange owners.
Create your private keys without internet connection, write it on paper: 0% hackers risk, 0% crooked exchange owners risk.
Noted. Thanks.
Scooby does BIG, big international money transfers all the time and I know for a fact that nobody can see what I'm doing because I'm using TEH BITCOIN! YEAH!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl9bvuAV-Ao
How many US Dollars exist? Are you sure? Is that number issued by a syndicate of bankers? Are they trustworthy?
See here: https://electrum.org
Bitcoin wallet: https://electrum.org/
Where does Reggie's thing fit into that infographic?
Last time Scooby checked reggie-coin was worth 1/10000 of a USSA penny. So he's back now writing articles to post on ZH. I wish his coins would have kept him busier....
If you are refverring to Reggie Middleton's Ultra Coin project , that uses the bitcoin blockchain you blockheads.
You are stupid.
Bitcoin was created by the bankers and their agents.
Why would the bankers allow another man-made (fiat) currency to even exist and compete with their extant official currencies?
Think.
Whereas the bankers throw in jail people who issue silver coins, you think they would allow illusory currencies like Bitcoin if it wasn't their own creation?
You don't even know how it's made, what exactly is it, and who actually controls it; and you exchange your goods and services against an unknown?
As I said,
You,
Just like Putin who allowed his planes to be shot down,
You
Are
Stupid.
you mean like m.a.f.i.a.a created bittorrent?
so clueless, so unlearned
your to be former wealth will be in better hands of learned people
Agreed. Those Bitcoin-haters who relent to using the dollar for digital commerce deserve to have their wealth stolen which it will be. Those Bitcoin-haters who reject all digital commerce resigning themselves only to face-to-face commerce using gold will find their earnings a fraction of what they would have been and the prices they pay multiples of what they would have been.
Those who use gold for face-to-face and/or bitcoin for digital commerce will create and preserve the most wealth, out-competing the anti-digital luddites in all competitive markets.
Sure. That's why they fought it so hard from the very beginning. Don't be a dunce.
Scooby is a fucking miner bitchez! I was mining the israeli-coin, I mean Bitcoin, long before the crew was planning to create a website designed as an anonymous financial website used to lure in metal heads to teach them about teh Bitcoins. Bitchez! Yeah!
I just cannot wait until bitcoin if finally exposed as the worthless fad that it is. It is the beanie babies of the 21st century with the one exception that beanie babies at least have some intrinsic value in that they are made of fabric that can sort of keep thee warm in the winter. Bitcoins are completly worthless, thou cannot even burn them.
I imagine that Shakespeare would write a nice sonnet about thine Bitcoin vs. teh Dollar.
The dollar is fucked too, but one cannot substitude a bad system with one that is even worse. We have to go back to something real, like gold. Remember the golden rule: He who have the gold, makes the rules.
you're going to find that it's who has the gun who ultimately matters.
Real power comes from the barrel of a gun.
cant wait to laugh in faces of dumbfounded people again :D
like i did every single time value of bitcoin increased by an order of magnitude
and its so far from over, i'll be laughing at all you flat-earthers for a long long time
Come on chaps really?
Bitcoin is a fucking electronic book keeping entry! there is no under lying physical asset of any value.
It's a bankers wet dream come true.
They could ban the use of bitcoin tomorrow under new anti-terror laws.
Then it will be YOU holding a cardboard sign outside some building saying... I'm no terrorist, I want my money back!
http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2014/02/mt-gox-bitcoin-prote...
I've been calling BC bullshit for years. I'm glad others are seeing this now as well. I knew the moment I read about the blockchain that this wasn't an anon currency. It has no value and is just another fiat.
I also knew that it could be crushed the moment the gov recognized it as a currency. Combine the transactional history with official recognition and just moved yourself into a fully tracked cashless society.
Fools. They got you.
If you want a decentralized currency, barter. Non marked coins of silver and gold cannot be tracked.
yeah, go to barter your PM in some dark alley. That's safe
Do you do that now, even with cash? No? Stfu.. you're not qualified to participate in this discussion
Wet dream? Do you know how bitcoins are created and how it differs from other currencies? Might be something to look into before posting more ignorance.
To the zombie masses, those modern buildings in the graphic convey a trust in authority. I get the opposite reaction.
With PM, there is only one authority I have to trust: me.
That infographic is a hoot!
"Look children! 3D CGI representations of actual buildings, so you know bitcoin is real. Why you can live long and prosper in that utopia!"
The reality is a bunch of twenty something propeller-heads slaving away in some "entrepreneur's" basement.
No, they don't have health care or 401-Ks.
They don't have bitcoins, either. They have low wages, stock in the "entrepreneur's" dream and the IPO date circled on their calendars.
We need to make the road that runs thru Bitcoin City out of Yellow Bricks. I really think that Gold and Bitcoin should work together.
Hence bitgold.
https://www.bitgold.com/
Otherwise known as a new version of fractional reserve gold......... Again, the same old shit.
There is no sensible way for them to work together. They are two distinct forms of money with different properties. Just like gold and silver are two distinct forms of money.
Trying to make one "back" the other would require some leviathan, perfectly trustable entity with infinite resources forever subsidizing and guaranteeing some arbitrary exchange rate. Which defeats the purpose of having sound money in the first place.
Time to jump in with my opinion. I hold way more Au and Ag than BTC. I got into BTC when it was still under $100. Have been slowly accumulating ever since, just like my precious metals. I buy and hold. I keep all my BTC in cold storage with Electrum. It is simply a means of diversification for me.
BITCOIN = Fake Money for Stupid People
Not "Stupid People", but "Geeks"
Ah…RonArgent…member for a whole month now…Stupid people are the ones who are all in on any one thing. You’re stupid because you think you think you know what’s going to transpire when you really don’t. What are you going to do when gold is 10,000 an ounce and your government charges you a 90% windfall profits tax? Hmmm?? You may be able to cash them in with no problem when needed, but I wouldn’t hold your breath. I have bullion, but I fully expect to never be able to touch it or use it. It may be my bequest to my children and grandchildren. You simply have to hedge your risk in as many reasonable ways as you can because you don’t know what you don’t know. Maybe the SDR becomes king shit for 40 years before gold pops and takes it rightful place. You just don’t know.
Because I have a business and rental properties, I simply can’t GOTS (get out of the system) and I want to keep this 800 lb gorilla from sitting on my family and I… Nothing more, nothing less. How best to do that? Based on my extensive reads and the limitations of USSA citizens being able to open foreign accounts anywhere easily, I have…
Closed my brokerage accounts. There are no markets anymore, only manipulations.
I have business cash stashed at the bottom of a lake to pay my employees for two months if the banking system goes down.
I have 1 year of cash, also at the bottom of said lake to live on should the banking system go down.
I have bullion holdings (80% silver / 20% gold) also lost in said fishing expedition.
I have multiple US bank accounts to mitigate risk. None of them are TBTF.
While in Canada a number of years ago, I opened two checking accounts there, one denominated in CAD, the other in USD and I can push money between or across at a moment’s notice. It’s not really OFFshore, but it’s the best I can do right now. I have a debit card with it that works in the US. If the gubment decides I didn’t pay my fair share and freezes my accounts, at least I have some CAD and BTC to defend myself with.
I have a personal and business bitcoin accounts.
I have CD’s at Everbank funded in Yuan and Hong Kong Dollars. The Yuan is moving on up. The HKD is pegged to the USD, so at a minimum, it remains on parity with the USD. When the peg fails (they all do, think the Swiss Franc a few months ago) I should get a nice bump.
This is what I’ve done since I woke up on 9/12/2001 to try and get my financial house in order. It’s also the order I’ve done them in. Best wishes in your personal decisions.
Amen Michigander,
Sounds like you have done well. Well on you for braving out your portfolio with some btc, and I work for a boss that can't keep 1 months worth of employers pay set aside (risky).
The btc haters think for some reason that we're all in, all the time, only bitcoin. Bitcoin for the average person is a great (yes great) way to 'diversify' ones investments and 'possibly' improve you situation. It's also forefront technology, many who (as I do) and are tech specialists see this as the beginning.
For those that don't understand the math behind bitcoin, don't worry, the next phase is already being worked. A combination of bitcoin and etherium. You have to read a lot and you have to read quickly. This revolution is going to happen quickly.
I'm more 90/10 silver/gold, but I like you 80/20 spread.
We lost our way .... when we we're mean .... to Fonestar and MDB ?
Gold can't be counterfeited and inflated .... that is good .... but, the electronic Ponzi fiat and Bitcoin .... showcases the importance of ease of money movement .... low cost transactions .... personal security from muggings and robbery (government or common criminal) .... liquidity .... storage .... insurance .... PM's are a commodity and a deep store of value .... but, for the moment aren't being used as money .... much .... more like barter amongst true believers .... Bitcoin is reacting to world financial crises .... like we thought gold would .... many hoarders have died .... waiting for gold to take off .... I haven't lost the faith .... just say my faith has been postponed ?
One question. Can the bankers fractional reserve bitcoin? The bankers have fractionally reserved gold, silver, US Dollar, real estate, stocks and bonds. Karpeles tried to fractionally reserve bitcoin at Mt. Gox. He failed. I believe bitcoin takes the ability to create wealth out of thin air away from the bankers.
Anyone can attempt to fractional reserve anything so long as other people accept his promises to deliver the good in lieu of actual delivery. Food, houses, oil, dollars, bitcoin, or gold. A gift certificate at a department store is an example of this. A fractional reserve note is just a promise to deliver something on demand.
Historically, gold has often been fractional reserved, i.e. people accepted bank paper promises to deliver gold. And they didn't always do a good job discounting the bank's promises according to the bank's actual ability to deliver. Sometimes they foolishly valued the paper promise at par with the physical possession. Today, GLD is an instance of this.
Bitcoin could be treated the same way if some dude (like Karpeles) stood up and told people they should accept his personal promises to pay them Bitcoin later. But that's his deal.
The Bitcoin network is indifferent to such 3rd party behaviors. The relevant question I think you are asking is can Bitcoins be printed (counterfeited). The answer is no. Even though it's just a digital number, an attempt to create a Bitcoin without mining it or attempt to spend a bitcoin twice will not be validated by the Bitcoin mining network which authoritatively indicates which accounts hold which Bitcoins and enforces 0% inflation, only mining of bitcoin at fixed rates capped at a fixed amount everyone knows in advance.
Just spent 10 minutes voting down fonefuck...
Time well spent.
I would use bitcoin as a currency but NOT as a store of value or wealth - THERE, that simplifies it for ME...
A fool and his bitcoin are soon parted
fools have been fleeced out of bitcoins for past two years, while institutional investors have been sucking up millions of bitcoins for chump change
this period of accumulation is nearly over,
greatest wealth transfer in history is about to unfold
What a bunch of nonsense.
The bitcoin market has NO liquidity. Tell us, if the price goes UP, are you buying more bitcoin?
If you say you will be selling, then the price will NEVER rise, becasue every other holder of bitcoin feels exactly the same way. It takes BUYERS to support a high price, not holders or sellers.
i use bitcoin for transactions and as payments for jobs i do
but i also trade, but only weekly time intervals
so i was buying everything below 300 and will sell some in 4-5 digit range, just like i was buying everything around 100 back in 2013, and sold in 4 digit range
once i see proper market saturation and penetration i will probably stop selling bitcoins for profit completely (i only sell when there's opportunity to buy more way cheaper later or to get fiat to pay for some basic stuff)
So your answer is no, when the price goes UP, you won't be buying more.
everytime i get paid in bitcoin is same as me buying even when its value is in 4 digits
i actually use bitcoin, debtfiat is dead and has no value beyond that which i have to use for basic stuff which i cannot pay in bitcoin (yet)
i dont get hung up on usd or eur, just like i didnt get hung up on a national currency i used before eur.
On a long enough timeline the survival reate for everyone drops to zero! Gold, silver, stocks, bitcoin, money, etc... All of it is meaningless in the face of death. Have fun while you are still here, but don't get too attached.
The author left out the government from this picture. The NSA and their ilk will certainly be a big player in the bitcoin realm as soon as it becomes actually relevant beyond a small number of dorks.
I have a simple question for all the bitheads that believe the value of bitcoin will rise tremendously.
If the price of bitcoin goes up to $1,000 in the next couple years, will you be selling or buying?
If you, and the majority of holders of bitcoin say SELL, then bitcoin will never get up that high. It's BUYERS that determine the price, not sellers.
That's what happened a couple weeks ago when it went to $500. LOTS of sellers, but they instantly ran out of buyers and it crashed to $300. That's what happens in a market with no liquidity.
let me put it this way:
current market cap of bitcoin is around 5b
thats not even enough to put a dent to holdings of some etfs
you will get liquidity once the price stabilizes - and thats way way higher than current chump change value
until then bitcoin will keep periodically bubbling towards its real value
Bitcoin will NEVER have liquidity. That's built into the system becasue there is no cental body to control or support it.
One either has the tech background to grok Bitcoin or one doesn't. The Krugmans of the world (those who think themselves intelligent but are just well connected subpar intellects) will never understand it because they lack the background but also because THEY DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT. It threatens their place and position in the world. Good.
Bitcoin serves the purpose it was created for: a way to get something of value across the internet from Person A to Person B using the network as the third party. That has actual value, whatever the arbitrary value is from day to day.
Where's Fonystar???
I missed the part in the graphic above where it highlighted the blockchain limitations to process x number of transactions per second.
What's that? Why am I asking? thisismycuriousface.jpg
BECAUSE THE BLOCKCHAIN ENVIRONMENT CANNOT PROCESS MORE THAN A FEW DOZEN TRANSACTIONS PER SECOND VERSUS THE 50k - 100k PER SECOND IN OTHER MONETARY SYSTEMS.
Didn't know that, didja? Do some research and you'll find out why the smart money sees this as nothing more than storage/savings accounts
ONEFINGERINTHEAIR.EXE
I always say this to all critics and supporters of Bitcoin or similar technologies like Ethereum. I'll be blunt. The tech itself doesn't give a fuck about your opinion. It's an open source AUTOMATON. In the case of Bitcoin every 10 minutes a new block is mined, on the Ethereum blockchain, the blocks are mined on average every 16s. This will happen like you (or your fucken queen or whoever) or not. I see that many comments here are about being in favour or against it. This is not a political party or a football team. It's a NEUTRAL tech just like the fucken Internet! Once you realise that trying to convince someone of your opinion on this subject is is a time wasting exercise you will be able to use your precious time on something else more productive.
FIAT IS FAKE, whether called "dollar" or "bitcoin". And the transmission system part of the "bitcoin ecosystem" is analogous to SWIFT.
Frankly, I find the transmission system part of the bitcoin ecosystem interesting, and believe it makes sense for transfer of ownership of real physical assets (like gold coins, silver coins, and potentially land, homes, autos, airplanes and other real things).
But the transmission mechanism or an individual transfer is not the value of the real, physical good the ownership of which is being transferred. Just like in the SWIFT system, being able to transfer something across the ocean quickly has some value for some people in some circumstances. That's why people will pay a SMALL fee for electronic transfer service.
Just don't confuse the value of the transfer service with the value of the coins, land, home, auto, airplane or other real, physical good the ownership of which is transferred.
Also don't confuse "transfer ownership of goods" with "transfer of goods". Just because you now own 1000 tons of nickel somewhere across the ocean doesn't mean you can do anything with that nickel... until you have someone ship the nickel to you!
All these elements are separate, and need to be considered separately. Goods, the transfer of ownership of goods, and the transfer of goods. All different things, all with different nature and different values.
I'd like to purchase some fake provisions with some fake fiat...
As soon as the internet plug gets pulled, I don't care how many wallets you have, your money is gone...
It has already been noted that the NSA published an open research paper that contained the essential elements of Satoshi's bitcoin paper, I think, about 10 years before. (Sorry if I am vague on specifics - search keywords and you will find).
It has also been noted that the goal of the nation state is to abolish anonymous payments and cash, barter and to monitor and control all financial transactions. This is the ultimate goal of every state, be it USA, EU or North Korea, ISIS, etc.
It isn't much of a stretch to suspect that perhaps bitcoin is a trojan horse, masquerading as a path to exit the slave system on some sort of digital freedom highway.
Maybe the NSA supercomputers, have been mining away since inception and are only waiting for mass adoption to let down the hammer - that could be manipulation of prices, or it could be simply outlaw all digital currencies except those owned by the state, just as FDR and many others have done.
Search mongolia AND "birch bark" AND "antony sutton"
Or buy a hard copy of:
Antony C. Sutton - 1981 - Gold vs Paper: A Cartoon History of Inflation