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How Green Energy Really Works
After this week's vaporization of $29 billion of liabilities ($230 million of which was owed to the US Taxpayer) amid Abengoa's bankruptcy (Spain's 'Solyndra'), we thought it worth reminding the world's greater fools just how "green" energy works...
As Pater Tenebrarum noted, oh so eloquently,
Businesses that cannot possibly survive without subsidies are ipso facto not economically viable. In spite of all the high-minded pronouncements about the “need to save the planet” and how this valiant effort can allegedly be “combined with economic growth”, their existence serves primarily one function: to distribute money looted from taxpayers and consumers to assorted cronies of the political class, who in turn provide the latter with kickbacks. That is all there is to it.
Surely no-one is so naïve as to believe that modern-day politicians, whose horizon and time preferences never stretch beyond the next election date, are really concerned about what might happen to the planet a century hence (not to mention that the entire “climate change” religion seems to be little more than an elaborate hoax). With Abengoa’s bankruptcy we are once again presented with a bill that serves as a stark reminder how much scarce capital has been wasted on such schemes.
Ultimately it is little more than a modern form of highway robbery, clad in highly effective propaganda. Many people feel guilty about “consumerism”, believing that it must be true that prosperity and progress are somehow sinful. In reality, environmentalism has long become the home of a great many authoritarian leftists after they lost their former sugar daddy in Moscow in 1990.
They are trying – very successfully it saddens us to admit – to undermine free market capitalism by appealing to people’s sense of guilt and their innate need to receive absolution for their sins. And they have of course found out that their new sugar daddy is much better than their old one, as there is far more wealth ready to be looted and everybody involved is quite happy to get a cut. Occasionally reality has a habit of interfering, but that won’t stop them, at least not yet.
It is high time that the victims wake up to these scams and begin opposing them.
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Green Energy is fuel by excremental bloviation of hot air political class. Is vaporous promise only.
Trump 2016 to end this B.S. !!!
Ipso Fatso.
-- A. Bunker
It's not just the "green energy" scam.
There's hundreds of scams being run by the govenrment.
And what should you expect? Campaigns funded by companies?
Politicians that have everything in comming like the Turkish Erdogan hoax are everywhere.
People vote for them, they cheer for them, and they admire them. It's how it is meanth to be.
So in all, it's not a hoax or scam or fraud if you think about it.
How did Obama win? By making people believe that they where going to get free stuff and that he would pay their bills.
Morons.
When Obama was elected, I knew he wouldn't do anyhting, a populist who promised the stars. Nobody agreed with me back then and people called me a rascist many times back then because of it.
But those populists never stick to their words because populists always fail.
And as a tradition, the next will be a populist to. and the next. and the next.
People don't like realists, they pop dreams and when people vote, they vote for another 4 years without change because people are scared about change.
And a realist would need to cut costs and save. And people think that they will have less money because of it. Yes they will but by voting for the populist, those problems get bigger, those cuts happen either way and taxes go up also either way, but a populist also puts in extra taxes "to share the wealth with the poor". And most of that money doesn't go to the poor but to the rich but what does it matter because most people aren't interested in those facts and the media get paid to shut up.
Good write. Cutting costs and saving works for government,,, unless, of course, your in the FSA. Where it hurts is when that philosophy is used in business. Not one business was ever built on saving money, but many have died saving money. I am working for one right now and boy is it fun watching these 21st century college boy managers bleed a 150 year old company to death.
So, USA stands for, "United Scams of America"?
LMAO. Good one. I wish I coudl upvote you more than once. Unlimited Scams of America would be my only change to you witty line.
Centralized green energy doesn't work and never will.
Decentralized energy works right now.
Don't bother me with any comments about subsidies. The war in the ME is the subsidy for oil.
A sort of 'internet' of power generation is really the only way these alternates can be made feasible. But even here, say the large scale adoption of decentralized green energy, will still require an outsized utilization of the centralized fossil system. While the point about centralized green generation should be evident, dispersing it won't shake us free of conventinonal energy either. Stop all energy subsidies. We might then at least be able to see what makes real economic sense and what doesn't.
Sure, depends if you "cost" millions of early deaths from coal pollution at "zero", if those are considered zero cost (ask the Chinese), then green is a scam.
But you'd have to also de-cost the massive oil and gas subsidies that are in place, they make Solyndra look like a piker.
Hey and what if you enter the cost of wars to get control of oil. Um, uh, coupla trillion. Sun, wind, and tides require zero war.
Do the accounting honestly for a change and green looks pretty good...even if you think climate change is a complete scam.
How about we just present the facts and let the people decide?
"How about we just present the facts and let the people decide?" Because we live in a country with a form of government that is almost the same as in the movie "Idiocracy". Uneducated, lazy people who can't see past their next welfare check or EBT deposit have the same right to vote as the educated, prudent person who can defer gratification for the future benefit of his family and society.
All democracies die like this. When the number of parasites vs. workers reaches a tipping point, it is just a race to the bottom and totalitarianism.
Hello Sudden Debt, thank you for your post. I've been waiting for an opportunity to assist you in you making that leap in consciousness that has so far eluded you....
Populists are simply trying to apply their energies to improve their own conditions by taking the tack of helping others as being ultimately the best way to most effectively help themselves, their families and their neighbors/community.
There must be some truth about what it is within populism to have triggered your rant.
Strange how rants are so revealing.
Good to see you back here Sudden Debt.
Glad the muzzies didn't blow you up in Brussels. Sad to see that the shipment of Winchester home defender shotguns was confiscated though.
"Green Energy is fuel by excremental bloviation of hot air political class. Is vaporous promise only."
If you care to learn about the rest of the story, I can highly recommend the book "Internal Combustion" by Edwin Black. It is an excellent source of information about the various methods used by industry and government to get the world hooked on oil, while derailing any and all alternatives. Just FYI, the amount lost on so-called "green energy" investment is not even a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of what has been given to the oil industry over the last hundred years. Yet another case of straining at gnats while swallowing camels.
http://www.internalcombustionbook.com
Absolutely correct. And let's not forget that the nuclear industry is in no way an economically viable business as operators need tax payers money to build power stations, decomission them and store waste long term.
Plus, regardless of anyone's view on climate change, we know there is acidification of the oceans. I have friends who are marine biologists who are down there with the molluscs and the shark who are measuring it.
Nuclear industry is shell for refinement of weapon grade fissile material.
Boris, you have a such a good way with words, i bet the proggys go crosseyed when they read your comments...plus one for ya
Actually, it is the fossil-fuel industry that is being supported by your tax dollars, to the tune of about $Billion 560 a year world wide, according to the IEA (International Energy Association, no suspect of "green" views). Compared to that the $B 120 in green subsidies is a pittance.
The whole premise of the article and all the emotion it fuels is simply anti-factual.
Per the article: Businesses that cannot possibly survive without subsidies are ipso facto not economically viable.
Probably true. It's a good thing that gov't never subsidized the railroads, TVA, interstate highways, Hoover freakin' dam, and a buncha other stuff.... Lotsa folks were stressed and very vocal about all of these; so, I guess you just pick your poison (or pet project).
Which ones would you, dear reader, have eliminated?
http://funding-programs.idilogic.aidpage.com/
free market is more efficient
Wonder how it works when there are needs not economically profitable...
If and when you introduce “Fully Private” (i.e. zero subsidy, zero Government intervention) healthcare, you’ll have plenty of opportunity to find out.
Sucks to have such “rare but treatable” problems such as Fabry’s Disease, Hunter Syndrome, Gaucher’s Disease and others. Even the effective management of more common diseases (e.g. Rheumatoid disease) can be very costly (Infliximab at $900 / 100mg, Tocilizumab 400mg at $980). How about developing MS – your 5 day course of a VERY old drug – Alemtuzumab (developed decades ago by Cambridge Pathology) will put you back some $59,000 for the drug alone.
These are the prices you WILL be paying in your wonderful “Free Market”, since these are the prices the Manufacturers charge GLOBALLY.
What part of the free market don't you understand? Duh
Boris to me isn't 'economically viable'
http://youtu.be/G7oglIAdnJM
Best green energy bumper sticker I ever saw was on the back of a Cadillac during the 1973 oil embargo.
" Save gas. Fart in a jar. "
Just like electric cars today, just a fucking lib tard feel good lie.
Mining rare earth metals for battery - dirty.
Bunker C oil in freighters to get ore to processors, dirty.
Manufacturing of batteries in environmental shit holes like China, dirty.
Electrical power generation primarily by coal, fracked natural gas, radiated failing nuclear, and ecological destruction hydro electric dams, fucking unbelievably dirty.
Transmission line loss to consumer from generating source, wasteful and dirty.
Efficiency loss in charging and discharging batteries for electric cars, yeah, you guessed it, dirty.
End of life disposal of tired fucked out toxic metals batteries from your fucking feel good eco weenie Prius or Tesla ? So fucking dirty, a shower with a wire brush and bleach ain't gonna clean the stank off your rainbow fudge packing unicorn faggy ass.
Several years ago, a study was done comparing a Prius and a Hummer H1 diesel from delivery to lifespan end for total carbon footprint impact - all costs from materials, manufacturing, fuel, emissions, the whole 9 yards, birth to death for both vehicles.
End result ? The diesel Hummer H1 was the cleaner vehicle from a carbon footprint measurement.
So, eco weenies everywhere, thanks for poisoning the planet faster than the trogdolytes in their monster diesel 4x4 trucks, you sorry pieces of feel good media hype turds.
Duh
Green is new Black
Green is the new global sodomy. Spread your collective cheeks and give me two good coughs.
"Businesses that cannot possibly survive without subsidies are ipso facto not economically viable."
*cough* Tesla *cough*
At least Elon Musk produces a product that works!
Not saying it's awesome or it's perfect...just sayin'!
If his riggin' gets just a little bit better, he just might have something!
Have you looked into this "Power Wall" product of his? ...sorry, I meant product of (the tax payer)?
Is it as good as his rockets?
EDIT: I just wandered across to the Tesla site to take a peek. A battery with a solar panel. Not really a new idea, or even an old idea done better, tbh. I did notice the 'superchargers' though - I wasn't aware of those. So now the taxpayer has the none-negotiable opportunity to not only fund a private company, but keep all of their customers' cars running too. Lucky taxpayer.
the wool is so far over their faces it's not even funny any more...sad commentary.
Yup. Also, using electricity generated by coal or nuke plants - you're moving the problem rather than solving it. I don't imagine battery manufacture and disposal is particularly green either. Teslas still use rubber tires too - about 10 gallons of oil per corner.
Teslas are a gimmick, certainly not a solution. Seems wrong to name these disingenuous electric white elephants after one of the best minds our sorry species ever produced.
Their battery packs are not cost effective. They now have a factory producing batteries. They are just trying to MAKE markets (subsidzed of course) with their home battery packs. It has nothing to do with being the most cost effecive, it's what they've got, so they try and sell it.
Isn't $150k a lot for a Zippo though ?
It's the right idea though. Why does this need to be a political debate? Nope - if the business is viable, that's all that matters.
But that shoudl include some externalities like our young men and women sent to the Middle East to secure our oil supply. How much annual spend is that? If you applied some of that money towards a viable technology, maybe we'll out come out ahead? Less money to the camel fuckers, our young men and women don't have to die or be dismembered and we get to make some shit again instead of buying it.
It doesn't need to be a political debate, but it becomes politicised when the politicians move in to prop up an unviable private company above and beyond the normal expectations of a subsidy for the sake of green credentials.
I'm all for better energy sources, for the very reasons you state and more besides. Alternatives certainly exist at present though. Did you know that Diesel invented his engine so that oil poor countries could run engines on vegetable oil? When the Diesel engine was first revealed to the public in Paris, it was running on nut oil. Shortly before Diesel was mysteriously assassinated, of course.
I started running an old Diesel engine car of mine on rape oil as an experiment, it actually ran better than on that shit that they sell you on the forecourt, smoother engine tick, good mileage, decent power, around 40% cheaper (using fresh oil too).
Elon Musk is a traitor who fled to Canada at age 17 rather than serve in the army of what was then still a free and prosperous South Africa. Fighting communism was for poor Afrikaner kids who didn't have mommies who could give them passports of convenience.
If I were king, I 'd put in front of a firing squad just for that and give his money to the widows and orphans of men who died fighting the ANC.
As it is, fuck him and fuck Tesla.
You literally have no clue what you are talking about.
Fighting communism?!? You think that's what the SA armed forces were doing?!?
Step up ignoramus
Why do you think South Africa was a pariah? The National Party meant business about suppressing communism---and the ANC was never more than a communist front.
More generally, the Nationals took the side of the Afrikaners who had built everything in South Africa against foreign bankers and their friends in South Africa's business community, as well as communists.
LOL, when those batteries die, were gonna find you and stick them all up your chuffer. then you will glow with glee...ugh, such a was of flesh.
I would love to have a Tesla Power Wall or similar product hooked up to solar panels and tied into my generators at my hunting cabin. My current setup is a a 12V deep cycle battery and two Honda 2000W generators that I can run singly or in tandem. A Power Wall setup would be the cat's ass.
With a reliable and constant source of electrical power I could hook up a Magic Heat or other heat exchanger to the wood stove. They require a fan and a thermostat, so they need power. I'd get a lot more heat out of my hard-earned firewood. I could also install a simple backup heat system of a thermostatically controlled propane heater and a couple 100lb propane tanks. Set the thermostat at 40 degrees and stuff wouldn't freeze when I go ice fishing for the day and the wood stove goes out.
LED lights in the summer instead of heat-generating Coleman lanterns! A mini fridge to keep a few cans of beer and some meat & cheese & leftover stew cold! I could theoretically hole up for weeks without going into town for ice for the cooler.
The Power Wall would have to be robust enough to last 20-30 years through long periods of non-use, 20 degrees below zero temps in winter, and 100 degree temps in summer. I'd be willing to pay a lot upfront for a system like that.
"two Honda 2000W generators that I can run singly or in tandem."
Must be a bitch to parallel them. Do you use a synchroscope for that, or do you have a 15 device relay in the closing circutry for your breakers?
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/generator-parallel-capability
I've also got a big noisy 7500W generator that I only run when I need real power for something. It's LOUD and it eats gas, but it'll run radial arm saws and such.
It looks like the engineers at Honda have really been thinking ahead! A built-in paralleling circuit just needing some cross-tie cabling seems like a great idea.
It rocks. But again, I only have power when the generator(s) are running, and 90% of the time when I have a generator running it's making more power than I need. Using a Schumacher battery charger for the 12V deep cycle isn't very efficient because it takes forever to charge.
Somebody tell Elon to quit farting around with rocketry and get those storage battery systems perfected! I don't want to take a tourist ride into outer space; I want electrical power in my little cabin in the woods. Address my needs first, please.
Ah yes, longevity and temperature fluctuations. The batteries weakness. Self regulating battery systems seem to be the ticket
I actually looked into getting a solar system for my house. It's like a government bond, where you MAY get your money back. $12-15k for a 3 KW system (depending on size of inverter, etc), payback is 20 years. Panels are guaranteed for 30 years at 80% output. The panels are not the problem however. The problem is that is $12-15k for a system which includes $6k for the cost of batteries, and you have to replace the batteries every 8-10 years, probably more. So, assuming one battery replacement, the system will pay for itself in 24 years. Grid tie systems do not work, because they capped the amount of power that you can sell back to the utility, which now essentially does not add anything to the payback. So you have to go completely off the grid to just break even.
I guess that's a plus. You'll at least get your money back, and get rid of one bill. Beats negative interest rates. LOL !
Some good analysis, thanks. One other consideration: if we had a well trained work force in this country, we could have an army of solar panel and solar panel inverter technicians doing an honest day of labor instead of sending money to the camel fuckers every month. But the free shit army is so vast and there are so many woefully undertrained technicians there that we're running a serious risk of not maintaining the hardware at acceptable cost and risk levels to the home owners who want to go solar.
Lack of relevant (Vo)Tec training = more oil = threath to our national security.
Crazy ....
Don't forget that inverter / charger will probably have to be replace in 10-15 years $2-3000. Then you have the solar charge controller, 120/240/120 transformers, charge monitors and a sundry of other things.
Course Solar is the way to go when you can dampen your losses with OPM.
It trully depends what you are trying to do with solar and the up front savings from going solar. In my case I live with solar and wind. My cabin sits far enough away from the grid that I was quoted $12K for running the lines to my cabin and the privilege of a monthly bill from the local electric company. My solar setup, 6 x 120 watt panels a 1100 watt wind turbine, charge controller, 6 Trojan batteries and a 2000 watt inverter, plus assorted cabling and hardware, ran me about $4k. Because I knew I would have to live with solar and wind, my cabin is designed specifically for that. With all my appliances running (minus the AC) I use 165 watts of electricity (measured with a Kill-a-watt, not just a guess). I cook, heat water, run the generator for the AC in the summer or the heater for the winter with propane (for now, plans are on the way to switch to locally produced methane) I spend about $150 a month in propane during the cooling months (May thru August) and heating the cabin (November thru February) and almost none the other 4 months so my total energy costs today are $1200 per year. Yes, I will have to replace $1200 worth of batteries in another 5 years or so, which adds an additional $150 a year prorated for 8 years. If I add an additional $1200 for potential repairs, my total energy costs are around $1500 a year. Of course, once I migrate to methane it will cut my costs significantly. Not counting the savings from the non-existent electric bill, My system payback is 8 years. And I dont suffer increases in my electric bill, no outages ( other than system faults I deal with myself) and no dependence on the power company monopoly.
More importantly it allowed me to buy land for $800 an acre in an area not normally considered for residential construction because of the distance from the gird. And put my nearest neighbor about 300 meters from my cabin.
Having said all that, any subsidies, either to oil companies or to green companies come from the theft of my production by the federal government. It warps the true costs and prevents trully viable systems from being invented/deployed.
I don't even think about it if the payback isn't less than 5. 20-25 years is for fools.
Keep your money and have a nice dinner.
You generally never get your money back going off grid.
But, it's not always about money. Consider it another way, a LONG TERM view of things.
If someone is currently working and making a decent income, then some of that can go into an off-grid system. When they go to retire, operating costs for that system are minimal compared to being on-grid.
It's about being able to afford a good retirement by minimizing monthly expenses when you don't have as much income, rather than just return on investment.
There are several qualities of batteries used for solar storage. If you go with (super) premium batteries, and oversize your battery bank so it doesn't deep discharge, a set will last 20+ years.
A key is to not cycle the batteries deeply. If you can keep most cycles using less than 10% of battery capacity, they are good for maybe 10,000 cycles.
But if you discharge them to 50% of capacity every time, then you only get 1,000 cycles, or about 3 years.
Another way of doing a battery bank is using Nickel Iron batteries for the majority of your cycling. These batteries are MUCH more expensive (several times as expensive) and are less efficient (40% losses charging and discharging) but they don't degrade when deep cycled. Use lead acid only when the nickel iron bank gets low, which might happen only a few times a month, rather than every day. However it adds complexity because you need controllers that can be programmed to switch battery banks
Immediate 30% tax credit. If you grid tie it, most states require the utilities to give you a net metering agreement where you get retail credit against what you use. Depending on the cost of your local electricity and your electric use, payback is around 7 years. And that doesn't count any rate increases. New battery technology will soon make off-the-grid systems economically viable. The current centralized utility model is about to be "Ubered".
guess what "folks"...this BS will STOP under Trump. Get off your lazy ass next November & VOTE !!!
Trump is a shill and a farce. Have fun voting in your next cummander-in-queef. Perhaps he can fight off the evil eyeSys terrizz singlehandedly with his army of vehicles with big "T"s on 'em.
p.s. you have the pass the greenskeeper carl test as well, i.e. "what will Trump do to roll back the surveillance and police states?"
Trump supports Wall Street, MIC and the FED wholeheartedly as well.
A mystery that people miss that around here, and give him a free pass.
Well, at least he's not PC and marxist socialist.
Dump a truckload of $ on Rand Paul and he might stand a chance.
If not, be happy with what you'll get.
http://www.thepornster.com/video/479/black-ho-gets-redneck-cocks-up-the-...
"Well, at least he's not PC and marxist socialist."
Neither was Adolf.
another deluded proggy, shame there are so many of them, you are a top notch nazi fella...were you rejected as a child?
Yes unfortunately I was rejected mostly by folks that consider themselves betters. Never broke my heart too much. Bunch of losers. And boy do you need to do some study on Nazism and what brought Adolf to power. You will marvel at the similarities. All running for USSA Dictator / Warmonger in Chief this season are some version of socialism / Nazism / Fascism or worse, if that's even possible. When the 1% Oligarchs finish choosing the two finalists make sure you vote for your favorite lessor of two evils.
you see, you are a socialist who praises another socialist, nothing new under the sun, son! get an education, then a life.
Since he is proposing to increase the tax rate on hedge funds that does not sound as though he supports Wall Street. Likewise he is going to change the trade deals that allowed Wall Street to export US quality jobs, and he will do so to the benefit of Main Street not Wall Street.
Perhaps you can actually provide some citations that support your bold assertions.
Incidentally do you think Clinton does not support Wall Street, the MCI and FED wholeheartedly, as well as wanting to flood the country with more illegals and muslims, both of which Trump has rejected.
I hate Clinton, and agree with Trump on several issues like immigration. Listen to his speeches, Im not going to do your homework for you.
Just saying if you think he will bite the hand that helped to make him his fortune (Wall St Banksters) you are sadly mistaken.
you mean like you are skate? truly, you must have lost your second brain cell, go find it quickly...
Green energy requires subsidies for the meantime. Though it has been proven that in the long run solar panels and wind falls far short of the reactor projects underway.
Oil companies are investing in the reactor projects as the potential upside is staggering.
What reactor projects?
write your congressman and Senator, they will get to the bottom of these shenanigans.
/s
14,000 dead wind power windmills in CA. Average cost $3-4 million each. $42 billion in wasted taxes.
Tory Aardvark, is that you?
citation pls.
Look at any older windfarm. Most of them are not functioning. When the tax money ran out they weren't worth the maintenance to keep them spinning.
Who knows...
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2010/02/wind_energys_ghosts_1.html
Proving nothing more than if you neglect the maintenance of a mechanical device exposed to the elements 24/7/365 it will eventually break down.
Quite the revelation
</sarc>
Also, sure your link mentions the alleged 14,000 OOS turbines figure, but it neither claims that number applies to only CA, nor does it indicate where the 'factoid' originates.
IE. weeeeeeeeeak sauce
So you're too lazy to look for a link yourself, I gave you one, and you're grinding me?
Figures...
hey, you could link back to yourself to cement the 'fact' with another repetition!
You get the gears because your link's 'fact' is apparently as made up as Tory Aardvark's, and doesn't even support the claim you implied it does.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&...
I live near the two southern areas. And on 99% of days less than 1/3 of these windmills is turning. Near Palm Springs we have been watching the myth of wind power since the early 1990's. The fields of windmills gets built, and 10 years later they are abandoned. Here's the kicker, they don't take them down. I could post hundreds of pics and vids of these not working. But you wouldn't believe it even then.
i'll give you a citation, for being stupid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_onshore_wind_farms
Here's one for you, for being ignorant.
awww, your so nice to me, thanks...i wonder how many birds those thing kill in a week? anyway, not to burst your bubble bobblehead, until you find a way to transmit that energy effectively and efficiently, they are the stuff of don quixote...but nice try, you'll have to do better.
hey i thought you dumbass enviromentalists protected the animals? geee what hypocrites!
Yeah, you duped fossils aren't fooling anybody with your thoroughly debunked strawmen.
you need to lean a little more forward, your long tails will give you balance, proglodyte.
i thought it worked the other way, potus hands out taxpayer green in exchange for campaign contributions. the difference between bribery and racketeering, small difference i guess
Of course, it would be idiotic to assert that such graft is how 'green' energy has to work, without exception, everywhere, eternally.
Eg. Aside from the initial cap-ex, the inputs on wind-farms over their ~quarter century (and counting) operational lifespans are essentially zero; meaning the longer the timeline the better the ROI.
But then such investments are antithetic to short-term thinking...
Do you have a source for that nonsense?
yeah, the sun sets every day, and the wind is not constant, i know that is a bit more logic than you can handle in one day, i'll leave you with that to munch on.
Renewable fanatics should be forced to drive wind/solar-powered cars.
Oh Fred, you're my hero:
"Let's ride with the family down the street,
Through the courtesy of Fred's two feet."
I am the source of that argument.
Please point out the fallacy in my reasoning that you allege renders it 'nonsense'.
......aaaaahnd:
<crickets>
C'mon ZHer's have you ever considered that the 'green' energy generation tech has been deliberately sabotaged, suppressed and/or corrupted because it would be much more difficult to centralize energy generation if the individual had easy access to their own cheap production capabilities?
And I thought you lot would have the wherewithal to recognize that the decentralization of political power is at least akin to the individual freedom that would be a result of the decentralization of energy production, another kind of 'power'.
I are disappoint.
'CONNECT THE GODDAMNED DOTS!" - Al Jourgensen
Here in hurricane land we believe in backup power.
It is a necessity for things you may have never considered.
I have a well and sceptic...because I simply don't believe that anyone will ever be as interested in providing and maintaining such life sustaining services as I am. And I am aware that allowing myself to be dependent for such subsistence services is to become a serf...
What do I mean? Water must be pumped to reach your Fawcett most places. If you are not in a gravity-operated-reservoir-Fed area (a few mountainous areas) then this is you. When the power goes out for more than a few hours the water pressure tapers off to zero. And then things get interesting. Because sewer service is also water-operated, and dependent on those same electric pumps.
When the water is gone you can't flush the toilet, sewage may back up, but certainly the water in your P-traps and toilet S-bends will evaporate, after which your living space will be filled with sewer gasses.
Whatever the current price of such services today, they are structured as monopolies. And while low prices for such today is a blessing, they are not an entitlement.
Moreover, almost all utilities are local gov't supported cooperatives...or outright a part of the local gov't. And almost all local gov'ts are technically bankrupt from pension liabilities alone ... And many times over if other liabilities are counted.
So, I have a generator to operate the well pump... But gas is expensive and doesn't and doesn't store well.
20 gallons won't run that generator for more than a day or two.
So, how much will you pay for electricity when municipalities are dying for cash? What rate will you pay to save your life? What rate can they charge to save your life?
$20k for a robust solar system doesn't seem so expensive after all.
I live in an area where many people are wholly off grid. The standard system is solar, as you describe. While a few have tried wind turbines as well, they have generally been found useless.
The original comment and subsequent criticisms were about wind farms, not solar.
Incidentally, while you may be a "sceptic", I am guessing that you own a "septic" system, not a "sceptic" (typos are sometimes intriguing).
Nonsense? Try “engineering”. Maintenance is an on-going problem that nobody takes into account when talking about so-called green energy. It is anything but green. And it does not represent energy independence. The turbines require permanent magnets to generate power, which requires several hundred pounds of rare-earth metals for each generator. Rare-earths exist in quantity in China, of all places. The US has (or had) mines that produce rare-earths, but they are old and most have been allowed to fall into disrepair. Without rare-earths, you have no turbines. So you swap dirt-bags like Exxon and Saudi Arabia for China…. Quite a dilemma.
Those cute little solar systems that people install on their roofs are worthless without a battery backup because they produce power only as long as the sun is shining. At sundown, which comes every day, the power mysteriously shuts down. Without batteries, there is no power in the dark or on cloudy days. The battery banks require separate rooms with outside air flow and fireproof construction. The 40 or so batteries that you would need to power an average house turn out a lot of acidic fumes that are toxic, not to mention a fire hazard. Yes, you could use lithium batteries. But where is lithium found in the world in quantity? Bolivia. Yup, the Andes mountains. Ninety percent of the world’s lithium comes from there. No matter what type of battery you use, though, whether lead-acid or lithium, they all have a finite life, like about two years, and then they must be disposed of. Talk about pollution. Dump all that metal and acid into the environment, and you would have a major environmental problem on your hands.
Yeah, let’s all go green.
Your assertion that "the inputs on wind farms . . . are essentially zero" is simply untrue as is easily found by reference to the P&L of wind farm companies. Wind turbine generators are huge pieces of rotating industrial machinery subject to massive stresses, e.g. substantial differences in wind strength between top and bottom of the rotors. That leads to substantial maintenance costs and in particular frequent bearing failures which are very expensive to fix.
It seems to have escaped your attention that wind turbines generate power only when the wind blows, which is both unpredictable and often at useless times when electricity demand is low. So they have to be backed up with other power generators that can quickly ramp up when the wind drops off. The backup is forced to run inefficiently since it does not get to be used continuously. This is necessary duplicative capital expenditure which is not paid for by the wind farms but is paid for by the electricity consumer. Likewise there is duplicated distribution infrastructure (substations, high voltage power lines) to connect both the wind farms and the backup generators they require to the end consumer and those costs are typically not borne by the wind farm operator but paid for by consumers.
And this is additional to the visual pollution, noise pollution and harm to health of neighbors caused by these testaments to corruption.
"Your assertion that "the inputs on wind farms . . . are essentially zero" is simply untrue as is easily found by reference to the P&L of wind farm companies. Wind turbine generators are huge pieces of rotating industrial machinery subject to massive stresses, e.g. substantial differences in wind strength between top and bottom of the rotors. That leads to substantial maintenance costs and in particular frequent bearing failures which are very expensive to fix."
Indeed, fortunately the tech is making strides by the minute. The ' Eggbeater' type, solves a lot of those problems. Also, those maintenance costs still don't add up to a hill of beans when compared with the constant inputs, excluding maintenance, of coal/gas required by a traditional generating station.
Not to mention that, contrary to your assertion, those windfarm maintenance costs only serve to extend the timeline for the positive ROI function I outlined, rather than refuting it.
RE: 'the wind don't blow' all the time, just like the sun don' shine everyday. We're here for a good time, not a long time...
Again, does not make my argument 'untrue' at all, merely adds to how long before ROI goes black. Also, using the surplus energy (when available) to break water, and storing the oxygen/hydrogen for a generator to use when it's dark/calm is not impossible.
Personally, and I confess that this is only my opinion, but I see a field of wind turbines as much more beautiful, and more of a testament to positive human endeavour, than the leftovers of your average coaling strip mine.
And then there's deep geothermal, which is a whole other tech altogether; requiring neither wind nor sun...
Usual "green" propaganda, promises, promises, There's always a wonderful breakthrough just around the corner if the government keeps ripping off taxpayers and consumers to pay us. And when that breakthrough doesn't work out, well just pay us some more and we'll make the same dishonest claims of future breakthroughs.
Of course if these clowns really believed in their incipient "breakthroughs", they'd pay for them themselves and use patent law to protect their inventions without having to mulct the taxpayer and consumer.
usual 'red' propaganda, change the subject when you've been shown up, and stick to the failing status quo, regardless of the consequences, instead of growing up.
And petroleum gets no crony subsidies at all, right? Right.
Of course, how much the environmentalists' sugar daddy in Moscow actually cared about the environment was revealed in the Aral Sea (now the Aral Desert) long before Chernobyl. Chernobyl was simply the first example even the MSM of the day couldn't hush up at the behest of the sugar daddy's sugar daddy in Wall Street.
Real pollution that seriously threatens human health (smog or poisoning of food or water supplies, for example) has not in fact been reduced by environmental regulation in the developed world. Nobody in a position to do much about it ever actually gave a damn if proles got black lung or Minamata disease.
Regulation was just another excuse to increase costs for small manufacturing firms that might one day threaten the dominance of bigger firms in the market. Bigger fish got around the problem by outsourcing their manufacturing to countries where most people were too hungry and desperate for work to complain about pollution and its effects as much (and easier to "disappear" if they did).
The one percent, who never risked having their jobs sent to China, think the world is cleaner because NYC has less smog. The only time they get an inkling of where the smog went is when they visit Beijing.
there is plenty of scum sucking liberals there, i would not go to nyc if you paid me a million bucks, just being near the place makes one reek of lies and death.
"Green energy" is just substituting one poison for another. Fossil fuels < Mercury, Cadmium, etc...
oh the progressive greens are such cute animals, if it weren't for their felonious words and deeds! can we ship them all off to the middle east, plenty of sunshine there!
I haven't signed onto the climate change bandwagon. But even if it were so, and climate changed, I'd rather deal with and adapt to that than live with a bunch of pontificating Marxists running the place.
Most greenies wouldnt know green if it was right infront of their face. For the most part they are a clueless lot that watches too much TV.
Im almost ready to show off my idea of a green car. Open source like nothing you ever seen.
Bonne Chance VW!
I figure just roll it out and see where it goes. If there is any interst I will roll out a nifty little truck.
Then a nice little beginers car with features to make good drivers out of the kids. Some cool features for parents?
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpriceofoil.org%2Fcontent...
You know, companies that can support themselves.
lol
+1
Subsidies are the worst kind of trash.
All this energy nonsense is silly. If they would just hurry it along fusion could (and will before I'm dead) power everthing with almost no cost. Every other source of energy is a waste of time, manpower and materials.
The American tax system “serves primarily one function (well, only “one function”): to distribute money looted from taxpayers and consumers to assorted cronies of the political class [actually, criminal and useless classes], who in turn provide the latter with kickbacks. That is all there is to it.”
The main reason America has descended to that level is because at least two rights (or powers) related to taxes won by the Revolution have been forgotten by all but a handful of Americans.
The right of consent and the right to withhold taxes until the government redresses grievances.
One: American Founders repeatedly declared that “no man is obligated to obey any law or pay any tax unless he has given consent to it”. Did they mean this literally? Of course they did. From the first English settlement to the Revolution this was how affairs of the colonies were managed. Every “law” and every “tax” had its origin in contracts between colonial assemblies and those who petitioned for redress of grievances. The terms of the contract were sometimes referred to as “laws” of the contract while its money payments were treated as “taxes”. And only petitioners were obligated to obey such “laws” and pay such “taxes”. When redress was completed, related “laws” and “taxes” expired.
This right of consent has powerful implications today: it means that only those who petition (submit proposed legislation to Congress) are obligated to obey terms (“laws”) and needed money payments “(taxes)” related to such petition.
Two: In 1774, the Continental Congress issued the “Appeal to the Inhabitants of Quebec”. Its purpose was to encourage Canadians to join the American Revolution. This Appeal, listed three grand rights Americans intended to win with the Revolution: a) consent, b) redress before taxes and c) due process of law. Americans have heard of one and three and, of course, have no or little understanding of either. As to the second right, “redress before taxes”, it has almost been completely erased from our history and law books.
The most comprehensive treatment of this right of “redress before taxes” is contained in my book, The Lost Right, edition 3.5.
There, in four paragraphs I conveyed to you more real history than you learned in 12 years of elementary and high schools, and 4-6 years of university indoctrination. You won’t learn this and other lessons from professors, or judges, or lawyers; the first two depend on continued grievances for their pensions, the third never learned such history, or law.
Without this knowledge, you might use one tenth of the power available to you thru the First Amendment.
No worries, some day oil will top 200 a barrel. Then - whenever that will be - at least the "green" energy infrastructures and knowhow will be there... Finding sustainable ways is the only way to go in the long term. Time will tell.
and it still won't work even then.
Thats the joke. It is what it is. And that aint going to change.
Residential rooftop solar costs 39c/kWh or 5 times the cost of energy purchased from the power market. It's subsidized by a 30% federal investment tax credit, federal accelerated depreciation (about 25%), several other rate payer subsidies, and other homeowners who exempt them from property taxes.
The best part of solar is that for once the poor get to subsidize the fantasies of the rich.
Grant me the right to choose where each and everyone of my tax dollars are spent and all these problem "vaporize"
Vote up! 0
Vote down! 0
Here in hurricane land we believe in backup power.
It is a necessity for things you may have never considered.
I have a well and sceptic...because I simply don't believe that anyone will ever be as interested in providing and maintaining such life sustaining services as I am. And I am aware that allowing myself to be dependent for such subsistence services is to become a serf...
What do I mean? Water must be pumped to reach your Fawcett most places. If you are not in a gravity-operated-reservoir-Fed area (a few mountainous areas) then this is you. When the power goes out for more than a few hours the water pressure tapers off to zero. And then things get interesting. Because sewer service is also water-operated, and dependent on those same electric pumps.
When the water is gone you can't flush the toilet, sewage may back up, but certainly the water in your P-traps and toilet S-bends will evaporate, after which your living space will be filled with sewer gasses.
Whatever the current price of such services today, they are structured as monopolies. And while low prices for such today is a blessing, they are not an entitlement.
Moreover, almost all utilities are local gov't supported cooperatives...or outright a part of the local gov't. And almost all local gov'ts are technically bankrupt from pension liabilities alone ... And many times over if other liabilities are counted.
So, I have a generator to operate the well pump... But gas is expensive and doesn't and doesn't store well.
20 gallons won't run that generator for more than a day or two.
So, how much will you pay for electricity when municipalities are dying for cash? What rate will you pay to save your life? What rate can they charge to save your life?
$20k for a robust solar system doesn't seem so expensive after all.
LOL! It hardly compares to the subsidies and tax benefits enjoyed by petroleum companies which is why gas doesn't cost around $9-10 per galllon. It would be interesting if all the subsidies and tax benefits were stripped away and the companies were really liable for any environmental damage that they cause. Then let's have a discussion about what energy sources actually make sense.
Its not the technology but how its used that matters. We do have lots of great tech around. Sadly most of it is not being used well.
Economics considers pollution to be an "externality" and is not factored into consideration.
Not that Government involvement doesnt increase the risk of fuck ups.
But if you expect to be able to breathe the air and drink the water in 50 years there is a "cost" to that.
Otherwise welcome to China.
Turn off the TV.
Green energy will change things ...
I find it very suspect that the author of this article doesn't mention the GIGANTIC subsidies that the fossil fuel industry recieved and has always recieved. Go ahead and level the playing field and remove ALL subsidies...otherwise you are as full of BS as any Obama Cabinet offiical.
Actually deducting the costs of doing business before computing tax liability are not a subsidy despite the clueless natterings of green nutters.
Most subsidies are income tax credits. So they get to keep their income. Isn't that what the mantra is? The green tax credits are molehills compared to the entire picture. Oh to be a banker.....
At least if your altrnative energy system breaks down your genome will stay intact.
As if there was anything we little people can do. We can't even muster the votes to send career politicians home after they've proven their only interest is in reelection and lining their own pockets. There are so may crooked players in power positions that we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of stopping these kinds of deals from going through. Dream on.
Give me your zipcode and I'll find you a gunshop. Go for the .308 semi-autos. Long range and will penetrate any "bullet proof" vest. I'll also look up your local militia for you since you seem to be so fucking lazy that all you want to do is make excuses. The rest is up to you and your fire team members.
That cartoon was another correct illustration of POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS, which has become the basis of the entire political economy, not just alternative green energy development.
The deeper problems are due to the long history of successful warfare based on backing up deceits with destruction, morphing to become successful finance based on enforcing frauds. The political economy exists INSIDE the human ecology. The debt controls are backed by the death controls. Money is measurement backed by murder. All private property is based upon claims backed by coercions, and there is no private property that exists outside of some system of public violence.
The established systems of POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS are the result of the underlying situation that human beings and civilization live as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows. Thus, there is nothing but the dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies operating robberies. The biggest forms of organized crime are governments, which are controlled by the best organized gangsters, which are currently the banksters.
Everything is dominated and directed by fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, NOT only the development of alternative green energy. The essential problems are that no systems of alternatives can be assembled and integrated without alternative death control systems as their central core, as the keystone to any such arch of alternative, or the lynch pin to hold together any of the possible components of integrated alternatives.
At the present time, civilization is almost totally dominated by the best professional hypocrites, resulting in that civilization more and more becoming a Wonderland Matrix Bizarro World, where everything is presented to the public in absurdly backwards ways to what actually exists. The degree to which almost everyone takes for granted thinking using the dominate natural languages, and the dominate philosophy of science, is difficult to fully comprehend!
The essential problem is that the essential aspect of politics must be to operate the human murder systems, as the most extreme forms of the human death control systems, as the central core to the human artificial selection systems, which must necessarily exist due to natural selection pressures. However, the existing artificial selection systems were driven by natural selection pressures to become most socially successful by becoming the most deceitful and treacherous. That was, indeed, consistent with the overall understanding of how natural selection pressures were internalized as human intelligence, and applied to create the artificial selection systems of civilizations, which evolved primarily due to the history of warfare, while that segued into the history of economics, where the powers of the surviving War Kings morphed to become the powers of the Fraud Kings.
Those Fraud Kings are the banksters that get to make the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts. Any alternative green energy systems, and anything else related to those, are only directed to develop INSIDE those systems where the banksters, as the best organized gangsters, are able to create the "credit" as the public "money" supply made out of nothing as debts, which is used to "invest" in the any alleged "alternative" economic activities. Actually, there are NO genuine alternatives, and none are possible unless there were alternative death control systems, to back up alternative debt control systems. Otherwise, everything that gets done is actually being done within the same overall systems based upon the vicious spirals of POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS, whereby the "profit" from previous frauds can be reinvested in more future frauds, as was illustrated in the cartoon above.
The deep dilemmas with respect to having more "competent citizens" (who would be better able to recognize that they had been "victims" that SHOULD "wake up to these scams and begin opposing them") are that those citizens would most of all have to take more conscious responsibility for operating better death control systems. However, at the present time, that is politically impossible, due to the history of successful warfare having been based on deceits and treacheries. Hence, what actually exists now are the dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies operating robberies, which are dominated by the best available professional hypocrites, who are most socially successful by lying about that.
The currently established sociopolitical systems are NECESSARILY based upon governments being the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals. Wall Street banksters' political puppets tend to get re-elected, so that about 99% of the politicians that run the government of the USA tend to be treasonous. The social successes based upon POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS have becoming overwhelmingly dominate, and have pervasively permeated all sociopolitical institutions, of course, including the so-called "alternative green energy sectors."
Since the entire political economy is based upon the social successfulness of governments ENFORCING FRAUDS by privately controlled banks, that has resulted in almost everyone deliberately ignoring the principle of the conservation of energy as much as possible, while deliberately misunderstanding the concept of entropy in the most absurdly backward ways possible. Prodigious progress in physical science has enabled social pyramid systems to develop electronic frauds, backed by atomic bombs. However, the profound paradigm shifts in the basic ways that the ideas about time and space were changed by that progress in physical science (including the ways that the understanding of entropy ought to also have changed, since entropy is the distribution of energy through time and space), have NOT had anything remotely like that be developed in the various old-fashioned religions and ideologies that continue to dominate political affairs.
It is possible to reconcile human systems of artificial selection within natural selection. However, doing so requires that one take the principle of the conservation of energy much more seriously, as well as reverse the enormous errors that have occurred in the history of science, due to the series of compromises with the biggest bullies' bullshit world views, such as how the concept of entropy in thermodynamics and information theory was totally inverted by inserting arbitrary minus signs into their entropy equations.
OUR PROBLEMS are the development of electronic frauds, backed by atomic bombs, while at the same time none of the ways of thinking that enabled that kind of progress in physical science has been allowed to develop through political science. Rather, all of the established sociopolitical systems are being operated by the best available professional hypocrites, promoting the dualities of false fundamental dichotomies and the related impossible ideals, rather than based upon using unitary mechanisms, through understanding human beings and civilization as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows.
Since our culture almost totally takes for granted thinking about entropy in absurdly backward ways, and does not come remotely close to changing the ways that we think about time and space, in order to respect the profound paradigm shifts that have already occurred regarding those in physical science, there are developing bigger and BIGGER sets of consistent contradictions due to the advancing globalized electronic frauds, backed by the force of atomic bombs, whose more and more intense paradoxes are the essence of the history of paper frauds, backed by the force of gunpowder weapons, becoming magnified by many orders of magnitude, which have effectively driven those systems to become runaway criminal insanities, due to their basic structure having always been based on organized crime having been amplified to astronomical sizes by progress in science and technology.
The currently established civilization is based upon the ruling classes successfully being as dishonest about themselves and what they are actually doing as possible, while the vast majority of the people they ruled over adapted for generation after generation to believe in that kind of bullshit. Of course, that kind of bullshit is now more and more being extrapolated into every sort of environmental issue, including whatever sorts of "alternative green energy" may be possible.
While human beings and civilization are NOT actually able to violate the laws of nature, since the only connection between the laws of man and the laws of nature is the ability to back up lies with violence, our society has become as psychotic as it could possibly become, through the triumphant promotion of the biggest bullies' bullshit, that governments are somehow not the biggest gangsters, controlled by the best organized gangsters. The vast majority of citizens can not become more competent, because they have almost nothing but controlled opposition groups to turn to, which are surrounding the core organized crime groups.
The ONLY way that a more and more technologically based civilization MIGHT survive the prodigious progress in physical science enabling the development of globalized electronic frauds, backed by the threat of force from atomic weapons, would be for that civilization to go through series of profound paradigm shifts in the ways that it thinks about its political problems! To the degree that we collectively fail to do that, our civilization will continue to become even more psychotic, and continue towards committing collective suicide. The established debt slavery systems, developed through the vicious spirals of POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS, have become runaway debt insanities, which are threatening to provoke unprecedented levels of death insanities as the consequences in the foreseeable future.
Any more "money" created out of nothing as debts, in order to "pay" for developing alternative green energy technologies necessarily adds to the overall debt insanities which society is already drowning in. That kind of "money" was already being made out of nothing more and more, in order to "pay" for strip-mining the planet's natural resources, which activities are running more and more into various limits of diminishing returns from being able to continue to exponentially increase the strip-mining of the natural resources of finite planet, all of which was being "paid" for by "money" made out of nothing, as debts, through GOVERNMENTS ENFORCING FRAUDS BY PRIVATELY CONTROLLED BANKS, resulting in everything that such a political economy actually did being based upon and directed by fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems.
The public "money" supplies became manifestations of the ways that MONEY IS MEASUREMENT BACKED BY MURDER, which became most socially successful by being the most fraudulent and deceitful. That entire civilization more and more is dominated by the best professional hypocrites. Of course, that includes the ways that so-called "alternative green energies" are developed WITHIN those already established systems based upon ENFORCING FRAUDS.
However, the only genuinely realistic resolutions to those real problems would require the development of better death control systems, to back up better debt control systems, so that the overall economic activities of civilization would not be still so dominated by fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems. Since human beings and civilization necessarily live as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows, we must continue to operate through the dynamic equilibria of different systems of organized lies operating robberies. However, we could and should correct the enormous errors regarding how we currently are thinking about ourselves doing those things.
At the present time, those dynamic equilibria have become extremely unbalanced, and are automatically getting more unbalanced, due to the degree to which the biggest and best organized gangs of criminals are able to continue to get away with pretending that they are not doing that, while most of the controlled opposition groups that surround that core of organized crime also promotes bogus "solutions" based upon the same old-fashioned impossible ideals, that always backfire badly and cause the opposite to happen in the real world, because they misunderstand their mechanisms in the most absurdly backward ways possible.
The world of politics today is mostly the banksters' political puppets, being voted for by enough of the masses of muppets, in order to keep the vicious spirals of POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS going and growing ... At the present time, the Wonderland Matrix Bizarro World's GREAT INSANITY continues getting worse, faster ... The ability of some human beings to understand and apply the laws of nature continues to advance in many particular ways, BUT, THAT IS NOT APPLIED THROUGH POLITICAL SCIENCE TO MORE SCIENTIFICALLY UNDERSTAND HUMAN BEINGS AND CIVILIZATION.
It is ALL TOO COMMON in the various kinds of content published on Zero Hedge for that to continue to be too superficial analysis to more deeply understand the relationships between human laws and natural laws. When that kind of superficial analysis stays on the relatively superficial layers regarding what the combined money/murder systems are doing, through governments enforcing frauds by privately controlled banks, then that analysis tends to be superficially correct. However, whenever the analysis SHOULD engage in the deeper layers of understanding environmental problems in more scientific ways, then the majority of Zero Hedge content tends to push cynicism through to the point of stupidity.
The article above did that when it parenthetically stated that the entire “climate change” religion seems to be little more than an elaborate hoax. Of course, it is CORRECT that everything that civilization does is based upon thousands years of history whereby lies were backed up by violence, and therefore, understanding the issues regarding humans blamed for climate change becomes quite hyper-complicated! Not only is the basic subject of climate science extremely complicated, but also, one has to sift through the available information keeping in mind the ways that social pyramid systems are based upon being able to back up lies with violence, which includes any "science" as a social enterprise, relatively controlled by its funding.
OVER & OVER AGAIN, since human civilization was actually based upon being able to back up lies with violence, but that violence could not stop those lies from still being false, human civilization has been driven to become more and more psychotic, in the sense of more and more out of touch with relatively objective facts. The sociopolitical situations, that are based upon being able to ENFORCE FRAUDS, are becoming more and more hyper-complicated, although they boil down to what was illustrated in the cartoon above, regarding how the leverage through POLITICAL FUNDING is the way that greater and greater manifestation of ENFORCED FRAUDS developed.
There is only one energy, and therefore, only one political system, namely the principles and methods of organized crime. The most important features of the current systems are that governments ENFORCE FRAUDS by privately controlled banks. There is NO "capitalism" nor any "free markets" within that context. Rather, the monetary system and national security have become the American State Religions. Those are far worse State Religions than the ruling classes promoting "climate change" as another way to advance their global agenda.
What actually exists are combined money/murder systems, and those are the only things which can exist and which must exist. IT IS POLITICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANY ALTERNATIVE GREEN ENERGY DEVELOPMENTS TO HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF THOSE BASIC SOCIAL FACTS! Therefore, the contradictions between better scientific understanding of general energy systems continue to grow and GROW, due to the ways that human energy systems actually operate through being deliberately ignored and misunderstood as much as possible by as many people as possible, with the ruling classes especially working hard to make sure that the people they rule over continue to be like that too.
IT IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE WHAT IS GENUINELY VALID SCIENCE, INSIDE THE CONTEXT WHERE EVERYTHING THAT CIVILIZATION DOES OPERATES INSIDE SOCIAL PYRAMID SYSTEMS, DEVELOPED ON THE BASIS OF BEING ABLE TO BACK UP LIES WITH VIOLENCE, THAT BECAME MORE AND MORE SOPHISTICATED AND INTEGRATED SYSTEMS OF LEGALIZED LIES, BACKED BY LEGALIZED VIOLENCE, WHERE THE ONLY CONNECTION BETWEEN HUMAN LAWS AND NATURAL LAWS WAS THE ABILITY TO BACK UP THOSE VARIOUS LEGALIZED LIES WITH LEGALIZED VIOLENCE.
In my opinion, most of the content published in both the Zero Hedge articles, and comments, tends to be quite dismal when it comes to understanding the deeper levels regarding any environmental problems. Meanwhile, ironically, the cartoons republished here are often some of the best statements. Certainly, the cartoon above was an excellent visual combat depiction of how POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS works through the domains of supposedly "alternative green energy."
I will REPEAT the essential point one more time, that the central issue in human ecology is necessarily the human death control systems, with the human murder systems as the most extreme forms of that. It is NOT possible to have any overall rational reconciliation of the political economy within the human ecology without recognizing that the supreme ideology is militarism, because that is the ideology of the murder system. Since the monetary systems developed through the history of murder systems, money is measurement backed by murder. Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have any more genuine scientific accounting of the relationships between human beings and the natural environment that does not focus first and foremost upon the human murder systems.
The intense paradoxes, which have driven the development of sets of consistent contradictions through the evolution of social pyramid systems, has been that their social success was based upon deceits and treacheries, which then morphed to become finance success based upon enforcing frauds, which developed to become the currently existing vicious spirals of POLITICAL FUNDING ENFORCING FRAUDS, as the ways that all economic activities are dominated and directed, including, of course, the so-called "alternative green energy technologies."
While there is plenty of relatively valid SCIENCE, all of that operates within the context that the oldest and best developed social science and social engineering was warfare, whose social success was based upon deceits and treacheries, which was the source of all of the intense paradoxes and sets of consistent contradictions, such as the political economy being based on governments enforcing frauds by private controlled banks, due to the vicious spirals of the funding of the political processes becoming feedback loops which did that more and more ...
It would be theoretically possible to develop a more scientific society, however, that would have to surmount the deep dilemmas that throughout human history the most successful human murder systems were based upon deceits and treacheries, and hence, civilization today is almost totally dominated by various sorts of professional liars and immaculate hypocrites. OF COURSE, THAT MAKES ENVIRONMENT SCIENCE WAY MORE DIFFICULT TO SIFT THROUGH, AND FORM ANY BETTER OPINIONS ABOUT. (Especially including that any bogus "solutions" that are promoted by the mass media for the ruling classes are most likely to only be more examples of professional hypocrites actually making thing worse, since impossible ideals always backfire badly, and make the opposite actually happen in the real world.)
When it comes to basic environmental problems, the essence of those are that natural selection drove human intelligence to be developed and applied through warfare, and then economics, to be done primarily on the basis of being able to back up lies with violence. HOWEVER, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE IS NO RELATIVELY VALID SCIENCE. (Way too much of the content published on Zero Hedge that concerns any environmental issues tends to become over-generalized and over-simplified due to overreacting that evidence of some fraudulent science indicates that it is all fraudulent science, which is NOT the case.)
Any better integration of human, industrial and natural ecologies MUST have the human murder systems at the core of that, in one way or another. Therefore, all of our political problems are becoming trillions of times worse than ever before in human history, since we currently have no ways to even imagine how the human murder systems can operate after the development of weapons of mass destruction, since those weapons are controlled by the best available professional hypocrites, who are increasingly psychotic psychopaths, due to the real history of successful warfare being actually based on deceits and treacheries, which morphed to become economics based on enforcing frauds.
There IS relative valid environmental science buried deeply under all of that bullshit. However, in my view, too many of those whose material is published on Zero Hedge have tended to not dig deep enough into those piles of bullshit to any better find out what may or may not be the relatively valid environmental science facts. The central issue, which is most deeply buried under the biggest bullies' bullshit, are the ways that the human murder systems actually operated. The intense paradoxes were that social success through human murder systems depended upon deceits and treacheries, which therefore required the maximum amount of bullshit be piled up on top of the human murder systems.
Therefore, human beings, through the history of civilization, have developed that civilization to become based on the maximum possible deceits and frauds. The ways that human beings necessarily live as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows are deliberately presented in the public spaces in the most absurdly backward ways possible, on every level, including throughout some of the most profound levels of the philosophy of science. While human beings manifest information theory and thermodynamics through their combined money/murder systems, they have developed to do that in the most dishonest ways humanly possible, since that was the most socially successful way to do that.
Of course, that makes dealing with the relatively real and objective limits of the natural environment extremely difficult and dangerous, since those limits were previously dealt with through the expedient sets of solutions based upon the actual human murder systems being most successfully operated through the maximum possible deceits and treacheries regarding what they were really doing. Upon that basis was the entire existing political economy built, including any possible "alternative green energies."
Although I quite liked the cartoon about, the rest of the article above was of very poor quality. In my view, there are an abundance of possible creative alternatives. However, none of those could be assembled into any overall better systems without alternative death controls being the necessary central core, keystone or lynch pin to all of that. "Alternative green energy technologies" should be developed within the context of a civilization that better understands that money is necessarily measurement backed by murder. Without that, then those alternative energy technologies must continue to be developed within the same old fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems.
There arise series of extremely intense paradoxes, as sets of consistent contradictions, after one recognizes that human beings and civilization necessarily operating as entropic pumps of environmental energy flows are also necessarily operating according to the principles and methods of organized crime, because the human murder systems are necessarily the central core to everything else. That social situation has developed to the point to where there is almost nothing but a core of organized crime (mostly now banksters controlled governments), surrounded by various layers of controlled opposition, much of which do not recognize that they are being controlled by the ways that the think through the dominate natural languages and their presumptions regarding the philosophy of science.
It is typical on Zero Hedge (in far superior ways to that presented in the more mainstream mass media) for the content to be based upon better understanding of the ways that the political economy is based upon banksters controlling governments, and what is going wrong with those systems. However, whenever the content published on Zero Hedge wanders into considering more environmental factors, then I REPEAT that I find such content tends to over and over again push its cynicism to the point of stupidity, such as exemplified in the content presented in the article above, as well as most of the comments so far posted regarding that article above.
Just because human societies are actually controlled by professional hypocrites, successfully backing up lies with violence, does NOT mean that there is no valid environmental science, but only that it is way more difficult to discover whatever that valid environmental science might actually be!
Im workin on it.
elon musk. . anyone anyone.
This is just normal government corruption and has nothing to do with green energy.
Wind and solar are both viable without subsidies.
At the same time, fossil fuel extraction is supported with taxpayer money. A lot more money than what goes into green subsidies.
So two wrongs still dont make a right. It would be best if none of these had subsidies. Wind,solar or fossil fuels.
They should be competing on a level field. Get rid of all the sudsidies and let the buyers choose what works for them. Force always works out badly for the honest folks.
They are trying – very successfully it saddens us to admit – to undermine free market capitalism by appealing to people’s sense of guilt and their innate need to receive absolution for their sins.
Did it ever occur to you that adding the "capitalism" qualifier to "free market", does itself undermine the free market? There's nothing about markets and trading that requires capital or capitalism. It's all about promising to complete trades, delivering on those promises, and mitigating defaults from broken promises.
No capital required whatever.
Suggest that ZH consider that this author is not credible when statements like the following are made;
'the entire “climate change” religion'
Does this mean that ZH disputes warming climate data?
Furthermore, the following is also a vague and irrelevant assertion;
'Businesses that cannot possibly survive without subsidies are ipso facto not economically viable'
So the whole fossil fuel industry, doesn't receive subsidies? Not mention almost every other sector?
Additionally, unless ZH is advocating that economies solely utilize fossil fuels and live with the accompanying pollution, which as we understand from your posts is pretty bad in China, what are the alternatives?
The reality is renewable energy makes economic sense in some locations and not in others. While Abengoa most certainly was a fraud this article is at best shortsighted about statements outside the context of Abengoa itself.