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Paul Craig Roberts Rages At The "Arrogance, Hubris, & Stupidity" Of The US Government
On the heels of the Chinese stock market plunging 5.5%, continued turmoil in the Middle East and the price of gold hitting 5 year lows, former U.S. Treasury official, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts told Eric King of King World News that Putin and the Russians are now dominating in Syria and the Middle East as the West destroys itself.
Dr. Paul Craig Roberts: “It could well be that this is going to work out so much in Russia’s favor that Putin will send a letter of thanks to the Turkish President and say, ‘Thank you very much. You’ve done us a huge favor. (Laughter). We lost a pilot and a naval marine but we sure have gained a lot. That was only two deaths for winning a war.”…
“So that looks to me like the most likely outcome. The unintended consequence of this are so positive for Russia that it’s got Washington quaking and Europe wondering about the idiocy of being in NATO.”
Eric King: “What I’m hearing from you Russia is dominating in Syria. The Russians have completely taken over and there’s really nothing Washington can do.”
Paul Craig Roberts: “No, except make a fool of itself by supporting ISIS. We brought ISIS in there (to Syria) — everybody knows that. Just the other day the former head the Pentagon’s Defense Intelligence Agency said on television that ‘Yes, we created ISIS and we used them as henchmen to overthrow governments.’ (Laughter).
And the polls in Europe show that the people are on Russia’s side regarding the shooting down of their aircraft. They don’t believe (the West’s) story at all. So I think what you are seeing here is the arrogance, hubris, and stupidity of the United States government. They are just handing every possible advantage over to the Russians.
This American government is the most incompetent government that has ever walked the earth. Those people don’t have any sense at all. Just look at what they’ve done. In 14 years they’ve destroyed 7 countries, killed millions of people, and displaced millions of people. And where are those displaced people? They are overrunning Europe.
This is all because those Europeans were stupid enough to enable our wars. Now the political parties in Europe are under tremendous pressure from these refugees and the populations who object to them, and from the rising dissident parties who are saying, ‘Look at what these people who you trusted have done. They’ve changed your country. It’s not Germany anymore — it’s Syria.’ (Laughter).
This is a disaster. Only the stupid Americans could have produced such a disaster. Does Putin need to do anything? We’re doing it all for him. So he doesn’t need to do anything. He’s not going to attack anybody. What does he need to attack anybody for? The idiot Americans are destroying themselves and their allies. This is an amazing fiasco.”
And On Gold... Massive Government Corruption
Eric King: “Dr. Roberts, people are worried about World War III breaking out and yet we have the price of gold today hitting 5 1/2 year lows. So I guess even though Washington has lost control in the Middle East, they still feel like they have to keep up appearances.”
Paul Craig Roberts: “Gold didn’t hit a low, it was artificially driven down by the bullion banks, who are agents of the Federal Reserve and acting on the Fed’s orders. This is the way the Fed protects the dollar from losing value. This has been going on in earnest since the fall of 2011. We see the appearance at the most odd times of day and night, for no reason whatsoever, of massive short sale of paper contracts that cause the price of gold to move straight down.”
Eric King: “We saw that today in the gold market with roughly $2 billion of paper gold being sold into the market almost instantaneously.”
Paul Craig Roberts: “But it doesn’t mean anything about the value of gold. It simply means that the Federal Reserve and the bullion banks have manipulated the market. So that’s what’s going on. This is the worst kind of criminality and the worst kind of corruption. I, myself, wrote to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and asked them why they permitted this? This is a violation of the law. But nothing can be done because it’s the government that’s doing it and the government is not going to prosecute itself.
So never say gold hit a new low because it didn’t. It got driven down artificially by a corrupt government..."
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"This American government is the most incompetent government that has ever walked the earth. Those people don’t have any sense at all. Just look at what they’ve done. In 14 years they’ve destroyed 7 countries, killed millions of people, and displaced millions of people. And where are those displaced people? They are overrunning Europe.
So true, it must be repeated.
It's so incompetent it is looking deliberate.
That's because it is.
The people of an economically healthy, Industrialized USA would have been worthy opponents to any attempt to prod them into NWO submission.
Now, not so much...
Sorry, but king world news? Come on.
"In what may be KWNs most EARTH SHATTERING interview in its history, such and such explain why the world is out of xxxxx and the price will soon be shooting to the moon!!!"
- every article they have posted in the last 5 years....
500 years from now:
KWN brings you the shattering news of a DiLithium Crystal shortage!
Warp Drive is in danger due to a mining shortage of the rare crystals!
Prices are soon to skyrocket in solar credits!
Haha damn it you win. Yours was better.
Eventually KWN will be right, and as much as I agree with their main points about physical ownership of precious metals, they just always sound like shysters and snake oil salesmen. At least they did last time I checked, I haven't been to that site in years.
Edit: just went over there and checked. Yep, aside from the PCR interview, same shit. Looks like a cheap tabloid, but for gold bugs. I'll pass.
Only in "Where ever we are, ma" will people ignore the reality of domestic and foreign policies cited in an article such as this, instead via ad hominim attacks and straw-men, suggesting it as being lunatic, irresponsible and incomprehensible, while paying attention to whether Egyptian Gods having blonde hair in a recent movie, is racist
Mind-boggling
Dr. Roberts has been spouting this same old tired bullshit for over a decade. He also predicted hyperinflation and riots in the streets. Thank God for America. I wouldn't want to leave the world to an old queen like Putin.
Hey Paul, look for an anal intensive IRS audit very shortly...
And you can expect to loose...
It's preordained by Obozo's sycophants in the bureauracracy...
Of course, if you thought Lois Lerner being caught ended all the illegality at IRS...
Two words...
Dream on!
Yawn: http://kingworldnews.com/this-will-cause-the-price-of-gold-to-jump-hundr...
The same old bullshit, over and over and over and over again! Amazing that people still believe that "this time it will be different" and they "BTFD" every time gold moves lower and lower and lower and lower...
Goldbug sheeple are apparently not much different than stock/real estate/government bonds buying sheeple.
"Paul is a pussy for not just coming out and saying we are witnessing the beginnings of the Joo World Order..."
"Joo World Order?" He's talking on King -Joo- World News! Duh!
p.s. before anti-semitism takes over again, a lot of goldbugs on KWN are Jews; Eric King, Peter Schiff, David Stockman, Stephen Leeb, Bill Fleckenstein to name a few.
According to Wikipedia Stockman is a Methodist, son of a fruit farmer, raised in Ft. Hood, Texas.
So, what's your point?
loose?
Dont have a TV then!! Riots everywhere. Chaos in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Afghanistan. Massive inflation in stocks and housing in the last 10 years and we are in the second bubble since then. Putin a queen? Like to hear you tell him that!
The self-proclaimed whore crys out for attention. What a waste of space.
I see you're aptly named
You must be cum drunk.
the above is an example of why you should never jot down your thoughts while your head is firmly up your ass
Yeah, well, what about that Unobtanium? Even the name makes it sound pretty rare!
If Jessica Alba gonna show up and dance I could give f#cko about the venue. Likewise, PCR is worth gettin' past the tripe.
Those guys are just clowns who can't attack the powerful message so they attack the medium. Can't even attack the messenger (PCR). Troll lite.
King World News always says the price of gold is going to the moon tomorrow when the financial system collapses. After a while you realize no real news comes from there, and ignore them.
Not the same for Paul Craig Roberts, And I am glad to read his insights here, even if originated from KWN.
That is likely why Zero Hedge continues to cite them as a secondary source. Both sites are havens for perma-bears and gold bugs.
There is far more to ZH than those things you listed. You know that because you post your usual leftist bullshit on nearly all of them. So what point are you trying to make, exactly?
And therein lies the rub...he rarely has a point.
Proof positive he's a leftist... PCR is right. Nobody and I mean "nobody" can time this collapse. It's too big. We are entering a global behavioural sink and what you see going on all around you is a direct result of this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink
Spoctor Din
Huh, my mouse seem to have stuttered...
"There is far more to ZH than those things you listed."
Shhhhh!!!!! We don't talk about that stuff, remember?
Damn it, next they'll be talking about Sub-Zero Hedge, as if such a place even exists.
There is no denying that the KWN site is hokey, and that Eric King has a limited repertoire of "stunning" adjectives, and that the frequent employment of bold red and blue fonts can be annoying, etc., etc. However, the simple fact remains that he CONSISTENTLY conducts well-directed and well-edited interviews with some of the most respected voices in the alternative media arena. I routinely look forward to his interviews with Nomi Prins, Eric Sprott, Ronald Stoeferle, and Bill Fleckenstein -- among many, many others. At least KWN is not entirely inundated with ads like ZH is, nor is the mobile version of the site repeatedly susceptible to adware browser hijacks like ZH's mobile version is.
Furthermore, while I frequently find points of disagreement with Paul Craig Roberts, this most recent interview is PCR at his ever-loving best; it strikes to the heart of the matter of the increasingly frightening conflict brewing between the US, NATO, and the Russians. I highly recommend this interview to everyone out there who is starting to get very uncomfortable about the foreign policy incompetence of the Obama administration as it appears to be deliberately steering us into the maw of WWIII.
Paul Craig Roberts is one of the few mainstream commentators who is not afraid to touch the third rail known as 9/11. For that alone, one must acknowledge that the man has balls of steel.
It's time to take a second look at Putin:
Let’s cut the crap: Vladimir Putin is helping usher in the globalist New World Order (complete + Putin vs. the West at the Climate Change Summit)down arrows are just zheads hating on linkys - keep up the good works!
Agree... anyone who read the changing bio's on Gordon Duff will be impressed. I look forward to counter arguments from down arrows. http://redefininggod.com/2014/10/shady-as-hell-the-veterans-today-rt-pre...
Down arrows and deafening silence.... laughable!
I downed you because you said you wanted it.
No thanks. We'll pass.
You're pathetic.
We trolled some folks...
911 is proving to be the litmus tests of litmus tests. Don't understand how anybody can argue against this.
If you like your troll, you can keep your troll...
Great argument you pathetic dickhead.
The nazi won about 1991
Change. And Hope™.
"Hopeless and in Chains."
Hey! That sounds like you're describing that 1/8th of the American public imprisoned in violence and drug infested ghettos, addicted to government free shit programs in exchange for Democratic party votes.
The New Slavery. Brought to you by LBJ and the Democratic Party of America.
ummmm "boath party's hour the same"......how long have you been here?
Been here more years than you been weeks.
Regardless of whether there's just one Uni-Party, the coloreds enslaved in their drug and crime infested ghettos trading Free Shit for votes generally only vote for one specific wing of that one party, the Blue jersey team, the Democrats.
Chains and Dope
Nope and Strange.
deliberate yes
but they are still stupid as well
r
https://enronnext101.wordpress.com/
chubbar, not to worry TPTB have a saviour lined up according to the marketing campaign Donald Trump will rescue America and make her great again. Unfortunately the opposite is what is really going down.
Word of the Day...
"kakistocracy"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kakistocracynoun, plural kakistocracies.
1. government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power.
"Scatocracy" works as well.
PATHOCRACY
"The ultimate cause of evil lies in the interaction of two human factors: 1) normal human ignorance and weakness and 2) the existence and action of a statistically small (4-8% of the general population) but extremely active group of psychologically deviant individuals. The ignorance of the existence of such psychological differences is the first criterion of ponerogenesis. That is, such ignorance creates an opening whereby such individuals can act undetected.
The presence of such 'disease' on the individual level is described in the Almost Human section of this website. However, depending on the type of activity of psychopathic and characteropathic individuals, evil can manifest on any societal level. The greater the scope of the psychopath’s influence, the greater harm done. Thus any group of humans can be infected or 'ponerized' by their influence. From families, clubs, churches, businesses, and corporations, to entire nations. The most extreme form of such macrosocial evil is called 'pathocracy'.
Political Ponerology: A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes
"If the many managerial positions are assumed by individuals deprived of sufficient abilities to feel and understand the majority of other people, and who also exhibit deficiencies in technical imagination and practical skills - (faculties indispensable for governing economic and political matters) - this then results in an exceptionally serious crisis in all areas, both within the country in question and with regard to international relations. Within, the situation becomes unbearable even for those citizens who were able to feather their nest into a relatively comfortable modus vivendi. Outside, other societies start to feel the pathological quality of the phenomenon quite distinctly. Such a state of affairs cannot last long. One must then be prepared for ever more rapid changes, and also behave with great circumspection." (2nd. ed., p. 140)
That Beavis and Butthead dude had it right.
Idiocracy it is.
+1 on the 4-8%.
Very few people are aware of that as the mainstream likes to stick with the 2% story. You have obviously researched the subject beyond Poltical Ponerology, which was an excellent book.
That´s the way the Mooslem-In-Chief wants it. BTW - didn´t Brennan visit Mekka...? And yes it´s forbidden territory for non-moslems...so..yes...you guessed it.
It is not deliberate, it is Israeli-neocons pursuing world domination. Nothing else counts.
Ever since 9/11, US policy has been driven by the need to cover up 9/11.
https://thinkpatriot.wordpress.com/2015/11/28/nsas-capabilities-have-nev...
Now the US has many people in power who are guilty of treason : they collaborated with foreign interests against the government of the US, the precise technical constitutional definition of treason. If they lose power, 9/11 will be properly investigated, and they will hang.
Thus, the false flags and "clash of civilization" rhetoric wrt Islam. All of that is bogus, or at least nothing more than standard jostling of different interests in a world-wide civilization. They have to push us fascist now, and the economic crash is the opportunity. The 50+ years of Israeli-neocon anti-Muslim rhetoric is the base.
Hitler 1930 all over again, we get to experience our grandparent's history.
It's long by today's standards, but another great PCR link for those who are interested. Intelligent and thoughtful debate where the two participants actually allow each other to make their points. http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/11/25/pcr-debates-the-intelligent-a...
I was just thinking of posting that interview, also. It covers, well, most everything that matters right now out in the world: economics, philosophy and war.
I spent some time reading PCR's website today. He obviously reads ZH, including the article the other day about the Greek prostitutes working for a few euros an hour. His reaction: "One would think that people everywhere would be outraged. But to most of those who commented on Zero Hedge it is just something to make crude jokes about—'think about it, Viagra costs 4x the cost of pussy.' 'Sure beats dating and taking a girl to dinner.' Those who represent the vaunted 'Western Values' see nothing to be outraged about."
I particularly admired how he took apart the beautiful libertarian arguments (unicorns with rainbows out the ass) by showing how governments get captured -- I say created -- by private interests and neuteriing government's ostensible 'public' function. And he says outright that those libertarian arguments are "beautiful", only problem being that they're wrong headed about how power works, requiring balance.
Needless-to-say, I thought his arguments were dead on. But even for those who don't, it's worth a listen to consider a thoughtful, cogent argument against pure libertarianism from a guy who obviously believes in freedom and sees our government as hopelessly corrupted. Agree or disagree with PCR, but give it a listen libertarian ZH'rs.
This libertarian reads pretty much everything he writes. I like a lot of it, and disagree with some as well. Few people do as good of a job as PCR at identifying problems in such an articulate manner, but he seems to favor too much of a centrally planned solution to some of them for my tastes. He also seems to identify some things as being caused by 'capitalism' or the 'free market' that have nothing to do with either. I also think he goes a little too far with his praise of Russia and Putin. While I understand he can be a voice of reason compared to Obama and European leaders, he seems to forget that Putin has an agenda too, and is a far cry from a 'liberty lover' himself.
Definitely a guy worth reading though, even if you don't agree with everything he says. I don't freak out every time i disagree with him like some on here do.
I agree -- he's too pro-Putin for my taste as well, though I think that stems from exactly the same desire many of us have to see the Zionists and other Western oligarchs go down, and he sees Putin as a foe of those interests. I'm still not sure Putin is.
Well you can waste your energy trying to read his heart and soul, or you can just sit back and look at his actions. You wanna be sure of things? Be sure of Ukraine. Georgia. Syria.
Judge a tree by it's fruits.
I particularly admired how he took apart the beautiful libertarian arguments
What is the counter argument to I own myself and you own yourself? Gimme something I can admire as I polish up my chains, boss.
Did you listen to the debate? PCR explains that the chains are not the result of government, but despite it. Take an hour and listen.
I've read plenty of PCR. Now I'm questioning those who admire him as to their reasoning for admiring him. Can't you give me a succinct reason why individual humans do not own themselves and who their real owners actually are?
Sociopaths fuck up ownership of oneself.
Are you saying that sociopaths control individual humans who rightful own themselves or are you saying that sociopaths have the right to own individual humans?
You edited while I replied.
Am I now to assume that you are saying that humans do own themselves and that those who seek to control them do not have a right to control them?
Billy, when you resort to asking me if I think sociopaths have he right to own individual humans, I know you are just falling back on ideology because you have no real answer to how to deal with sociopaths in your worldview.
The first step in dealing with sociopaths is to admit that sociopaths don't own you which is something you refuse to do.
If you can't assert your own right to self determination then you can't even define someone who would seek to control you as being a sociopath. If you have no right to self ownership then there is no crime in the sociopath's efforts to control you.
So do you own yourself or not? Do you have a right to self determination and self defense or not?
Spot on.
Isn't it absurd we have to explain to people they fully own themselves and are not subject to domination....yet they argue with us? They vehemently insist they are slaves who must be violently ruled by other men? Unfathomably tragic what systematic brainwashing from birth will lead people to think about themselves.
yes, it's quite absurd. But the infuriating part is that they insist that we must be slaves as well and they lend their support to the oligarchs in order to make that happen. Then they use the fact that the oligarchs attack us with their assistance as a justification for why we should be attacked by oligarchs.
"But the infuriating part is that they insist that we must be slaves as well..."
On the contrary, I don't recall making any such ideological assertions. Regardless of my views, however, I do believe in matter-of-fact situations that must be dealt with under less than ideal conditions.
Can you speak more plainly?
Does government have a right to make my decisions for me or not? Do you support the efforts of politicians to make my decisions for me? If a politician insists that I do something which you agree that I should do do you want them to use their guns and prisons to force me to comply?
"Does the government have a right..." ? It will, regardless of rights.
Look, my sentiments lean heavily toward the libertarian view, but the libertarian ideology is not a complete circle that accurately models the real world.
Well, I'm not a libertarian myself. They can be good allies but they don't go far enough. The only moral interactions are voluntary interactions. Any time one individual forces himself on another individual a criminal act has occurred and only by organizing voluntarily against anyone who would seek to injure others can the sociopaths be brought in line.
You claim to support self determination but insist that because sometimes one individual injures another individual that the real world precludes self determination and that it's best to take orders from those who do seek to injure you. This makes no more sense to me than if you said that taking an aspirin doesn't always relieve your headache so it's best to simply pound your head against the wall until the pain subsides.
I think you confuse what one "should" do with what one reasonably "can" do.
It was not reasonable for A. G. Bell to talk over a wire until he decided to try to talk over a wire, theorized about how me might talk over a wire and obtained and assembled the equipment which allowed him to talk over a wire.
If you refuse to accept the premise that you own yourself then you can never progress past the point where people like Bush, Obama, Pelosi and Boehner get to tell you what to do in every minute detail of your life.
this is cultural - you are more likely to be deluded into mental slavery if you have been brainwashed early (and genitally mutulated etc) to think invisible masters are everything and you are nothing
luckuly not all cultures participate in such religious child abuse
It's like a penniless gang rolls into town and demands monthly payments for "protection" and "leadership." You laugh and tell them you don't need their "protection" nor want their "leadership" and send them away.
But they tell your neighbors the same story, who all buy into it, pay off the gang handsomely every month and dutifully follow all their commands.
Then the gang comes to your door back flush with weapons and power supplied by everyone around you and they compel you to pay up and obey. "See," everyone says, "You do need their protection and leadership after all. Without them we would be helpless against gangs taking our money and freedoms."
Herk, Excellent analogy! A living example of that today, would be DOT drug testing for all transportation workers, traceable back to a Greyhound accident, and a train wreck (Amtrak, if memory serves me correctly).
At the moment of your conception, you are owned by your creator- God.
During your life, you have free will, aka self determination- but you still have one of two owners- either God, or Satan.
At the moment of your death, you get to spend eternity with your owner.
Evidence please.
I must confess that I don't know how to deal with sociopaths. I only know that we are ruled over by a government run by sociopaths and I don't like it. Since we can't just rid ourselves of all sociopaths, I want them to have as little power over me as possible, which means I want the main avenue they use to gain this power, government, to be as small as possible.
"I want the main avenue they use to gain this power, government, to be as small as possible."
Agreed that government should be as small as possible. PCR in the debate interview I posted explains pretty convincingly that government is by no means the main avenue by which they gain power. Elected government is a conduit for the sociopaths. They will exist and exert power with or without it. Without elected government, they will exert absolute power.
0 is as small as possible.
"I HEARTILY ACCEPT the motto, — "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe, — "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have." -- Thoreau
Election is a pageant designed to make you THINK your voice matters.
You do not reason with a psychopath. A psychopath does not feel guilt. A psychopath has no conscience. A psychopath is like a clever, manipulative shark. It understands you better than you understand yourself. There is only one way to address a shark infestation. Get out of the water; take their power away.
or go fishing and don't throw them back in.
Binary. Don't swim, or go fishing.
this is a pretty good book on how to spot psychos and prevent being screwed over by them:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767915828?keywords=the%20sociopath%20n...
I've read about 10 books on the subject and I find this one very intresting, well written and based on realaity (I think the author is a prof frm harvard).
It really helped me connect the dots while I lived in LA (according to the author one of 3 world'scapitals of psychopathy together with London and NY)
And thus we must submit ourselves to servitude to sociopaths....in order that we may be protected against servitude to sociopaths?
How about we defend ourselves and our property against all sociopaths governmental and non-governmental alike.
"How about we defend ourselves and our property against all sociopaths governmental and non-governmental alike."
Said every individual who was ever raped and pillaged by said sociopaths.
I've counted two zingers by you tonight, LTER. You're on a roll.
How is the assertion that you can never, ever defend yourself against those who would hurt you so you shouldn't even try a "zinger?"
I really don't understand the mentality of people who are delighted by the idea that they can and will be beaten down by bullies. The real zinger is that people who think that way also insist that I should enjoy being beaten by bullies and that they fully support the bully's right to do so.
So rather than defend ourselves against sociopaths we should hastily submit to their rule over us and validate their claims of authority over us in hopes they spare us from rape and pillage once we are fully subjugated to them?
If you truly see yourself as an island, why do you remain in a country you detest? Why not just strike out to somewhere on this large planet where you can exist completely independently and bear arms against anyone who would do you harm? If your answer is that there is nowhere to go where human beings just get along and where they don't follow sociopaths who will overpower you, what does that tell you about your ideology as an answer to anything?
I don't see myself as an island. I love voluntarily trading with and peacefully interacting and negotiating with other people. Very profitable and enjoyable. Not to be confused with violently dominating them or being violently dominated by them.
Unfortunately, there is no territory on earth not already claimed by some government gang committed to practicing aggression as a way of life and supported, funded, and kept in power by people like you who also believe in that. People who, sadly, have swallowed the myth that some other ordinary men can have super-human authority to violently run your life so long as they wear a fancy hat or have a shiny badge or give a fancy sounding speech.
"Unfortunately, there is no territory on earth not already claimed by some government gang..."
How many of these places that you consider worse than the US have elected government? If by "government" you include any group of people with guns who rule over other people by force, and you acknowledge that such governments exists even among men who do not even have the illusion of voting, why do you argue against me and my desire for a government of the people by the people? Alternatively, why do you waste your time advocating for a lack of "government" when all of history and even current times tell us that there is no such place?
History is chock full of crimes, diseases and disasters. Is it your contention that no one should ever seek to rectify things which have gone wrong in the past?
There are any number of undesirable situations which have been confronted and overcome by those who had the determination to do so. Should these individuals have not made their contributions? If you had a time machine would you go back and prevent Edison, Pasteur and Fleming from accomplishing their goals based on the fact that the problems they sought to overcome had never been overcome previously?
A better question would be why "Billy the poet" and "let them eat rand" don't get together and write a movie script where it could be just like that movie "grumpy old men" and you could comically try to convince each other who's right and who's wrong, who's worldview is better! I'd pay to see that movie because it's just funny as all get out to watch you two bicker here for thousands of hours on zerohedge!
Hey, get off my lawn punk!
I'm glad you mentioned that. We are writing a script for a movie that's bound to be a blockbuster and we're looking for a few savvy investors. Let's do lunch.
I think Romans fugured out they coudl profitably extrapolate the religion of slaves (to turn as many free people into mental slaves as possible)
there is a great book about Christianity and how it changed every now and then (by a prof from Oxford and Cambridge) - it was voted one of the best books in of the year 2012:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_16?url=search-alias%3Dstripbook...
very iteresting and well written - I coudl nto stop reading it (have never been religous, and nether is the author although I think he comes from a family of bishops)
"What is the counter argument to I own myself and you own yourself?"
How the world actually works.
As a basic sentiment, though, I do agree with your statement.
So according to how the world actually works who owns the individual human beings inhabiting the planet?
Skip a tax payment and find out, or better, ask Peter Schiff's dad Irwin.
Just because bad people can try to hurt you doesn't mean that they have the right to do so. Do you recognize the right of the individual to self ownership, self determination and self defense?
How the world really works is that 1) the majority of humans want to follow leaders; 2) most leaders are sociopaths with guns who raise armies who will take your shit; and 3) all of human history is there for you to see that 1 and 2 are the way the world really works, and instead you rely on fiction novels written by a Zionist for your worldview.
Yes, I had no world view until I read Atlas at age 45.
Why can't you discuss a subject without rehashing old canards ad naseum?
But let me try to understand your point no matter how deeply buried in BS. Are you saying that because the world works in such a way that some people get raped and some people get murdered that those people do not have a right not to be raped and murdered? Are you saying that because some people seek to abuse you that you should accept their right to do so?
You and I both know that I do not think anyone has the right to rape and murder. If you want to have an honest discussion, you will admit that you and I disagree about how to protect the right not to be raped or murdered. I'll leave it at that because I know from extensive past discussions with you that you are not interested in my viewpoint.
You have consistently refused to present your viewpoint as a coherent whole. Time and again I have tried to determine your first principles and your ultimate goals but you always go off on Alan Greenspan or some such thing.
Here are the fragments we have:
1. You believe that the only method of organizing individual humans is to have someone else control them.
2. The controllers should be elected.
3. The system is so corrupt that you refuse to even vote.
I see no coherent set of principles or any actionable strategy in that. Can you explain?
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government."
So are you advocating armed revolution? Are you involved in any Committees of Correspondence or militia groups in order to bring this about? You see I'm still left guessing as to what your actual position is. Can't you state it plainly?
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
According to that statement those who do not consent to be lead by politicians are under no compunction to be lead. Isn't that correct?
So quoting the Declaration of Independence makes me a supporter of armed revolution?
I have no idea. You refuse to speak plainly.
To review, you believe:
1. Individual human beings must be controlled by others.
2. Those controllers should be elected.
3. The system is so corrupt that you won't even vote.
4. When asked for a set of principles and an actionable plan which ties those beliefs together you quote a document written by armed revolutionaries.
So where does that leave us as to your worldview? I'd really like to know.
How the world actually works.
Spoken like a true slave who was born on a plantation, works on plantation, and will die on a plantation, understanding only the ways of slaves, and admitting no other form of existence.
they're wrong headed about how power works, requiring balance.
So balance is achieved with a leviathan entity monopolizing force, justice, money, etc? An entity considered above morality that psychopaths scramble to take the reins of? Hardly.
Balance of power is achieved when no single entity holds a monopoly on anything. When everyone can vote with his feet and productivity for private institutions that can arise in unlimited number supplying whatever services people value including defense from aggressors, dispute resolution, negotiated agreements spanning numerous sovereignties, etc. That's your balance.
OK, I'll lay it out but you might not get it: There is no real difference between private and public power, only the illusion of a difference.
The are alike in that both are gangs led by a small number of evil, ruthless men bent on self-enrichment at the expense of all others.
The difference is people grant the one with the title "government" an exception from morality. They feel duty bound to obey its dictates no matter how immoral and violently imposed on peaceful innocents. They feel obligated to pay whatever its tribute demands to the penny. They even proudly go to die on the battlefield fighting on its behalf in order to to sustain and expand its power.
No sane person would ever do any of these things for a private entity. If the gang labelled "government" was stripped of these irrational, unholy, unnatural advantages, it could not endure for a millisecond.
"No sane person would ever do any of these things for a private entity."
You're right, herkomilichen. No person would ever kill another for a private entity. Certainly no one would kill for the mob. Or a drug cartel. Or an unelected King or Lord. No one would ever sell pain killers that they know will addict and kill people. No one would ever design a drone sold by a private company. No one would ever make GMO foods for Monsanto. No one would ever pollute a river and create high cancer rates among those who live downstream. No one would ever sell insurance that did not pay for necessary medical treatment. No one would ever....
You've confused psychopaths with sane individuals. You make that same error quite often. The criminal element is quite small, most people have no desire to harm their neighbors.
Billy, a few hundred people own more wealth than the majority of the world population combined, and most of them didn't earn it by any productive means. Most of the wealth existed long before they (and we) were born. I doesn't take many to fuck it up for the rest of us.
Three.
I doesn't take many to fuck it up for the rest of us.
And it's just a coincidence that those people use the tools of government to squelch competition and maintain their position.
You admit that the system is so corrupted by those who do just that that you won't even vote. Where is your actionable plan to elect uncorrupted leaders without voting?
Much of the money pre-existed the US. Think Rothschilds and the Royalty of England. Almost all of it pre-existed our births. Think JP Morgan, John Rockefeller. They used their money to squelch competition, and later used elected government once it mattered to their ends, which they purchased.
My plan? Don't have one. But the colonies stood up to the Royalty of England and won. But that's history. I'm mostly just venting and pointing out that you are implicitly supporting the oligarchs with your worldview of cutting out the middle man and giving the keys to these fuckers.
Much of the money pre-existed the US. Think Rothschilds and the Royalty of England. Almost all of it pre-existed our births. Think JP Morgan, John Rockefeller. They used their money to squelch competition, and later used elected government once it mattered to their ends, which they purchased.
All of that happened with the assistance of government. So my point is reinforced.
My plan? Don't have one.
Then why argue so vehemnetly against those who do have a plan -- that of voluntary organization against anyone who would force themselves on others? Why actively support those who deny the right of the individual to make his own choices in life?
I'm mostly just venting and pointing out that you are implicitly supporting the oligarchs with your worldview of cutting out the middle man and giving the keys to these fuckers.
You say that elected government must be maintained despite the fact that the system is so corrupt you won't vote. That is a clear admission that you have turned over the henhouse to the foxes. My plan is to stop inviting foxes into the henhouse and to voluntarily cooperate in removing any foxes who do enter the henhouse. That is obviously the better plan if the goal is to keep the henhouse free of foxes.
You are right, violence is a service. But absent government, it's heinously expensive. As a private company, how much would I have to pay you to risk death in order to enhance my profits? If you have a family or value your own life very much, I'm guessing, quite a lot, no? What's chancing getting your head shot off in someone else's violent conflict worth to you?
Now what if instead I give myself an official-sounding title, don a suit with a flag pin, and inform you I'm your new government leader. By implication to your way of thinking this means you must now grant me authority to violently boss you around. And you are a bad person if you don't. It's your moral duty to obey my orders.
I inform you since I'm here to protect you, you must go die on a foreign battlefield to help expand my power. Otherwise I'll have my other enforcers seize you and lock you in jail for draft evasion, i.e. not giving me your life for free.
Incredibly, you buy into this bullshit. You leave your family behind, and dutifully go fight and die for me...for free. This religious faith in government by its devotees is how government leaders who produce nothing can afford to violently dominate entire populations.
Such insane undervaluing of one's own life, such disregard for the actual costs of violence including all consequences you would personally bear responsibility for, would never occur in a private market of rational, self-interested, self-owning individuals negotiating as equals and holding each other fully responsible for his actions.
And BTW, all those other undesirable business practices you mention would not last long in a free, competitive market, precisely because they are undesirable and/or property rights violations and thus unprofitable.
To think otherwise is to think entrepreneurs would have no motivation to develop non-addictive painkillers even after people complained of addiction problems. Or no one would offer non-GMO food for sale even if some people expressed a preference for it. Or no one would buy water rights and scrupulously keep that water clean even though people value clean water to drink. Or no one would boycott, ostracize, and forcibly respond to any private company attempting acts of aggression with military hardware or emitting toxic chemicals onto the property of others.
If you study how free markets work, you'll come to understand balancing incentives and how powerfully corrective they are when allowed to function.
PCR was right the comments on that piece about Greek women selling themselves to eat, it was terrible. It was a bad thread to take a sample from comments, it's not usually that bad. Dark humor is good and people need to laugh at these crappy times but sometimes it goes too far and becomes molevolent.
"One would think that people everywhere would be outraged..."
My outrage meter went off the scale and broke a long time ago. I'm sure many here have had the same experience.
Paul, if you're reading this, it's called "coping." That's what black humor is about, AKA, "whistling past the graveyard."
If it offends you, perhaps you aren't nearly as outraged as you think.
It's not "the Americans".
It's the Communist in Chief. He's a Communist, and, like all Communists, his #1 goal is the destruction of America and the Western way of life.
It is astounding to see how many are too ignorant to see this.
Americans are in an open air prison. And they are being medicated into complacency - a crime against humanity.
Cost of fluoride in water at 68 cents per person which is covered by "industrials." Aluminum magnate being one of the original promotors of poisoning America.
Do you really think they care about your teeth?
Before Mexico collapse. fluoride went into their water supplyl, was too high and the results were teeth ridded with yellow brittle spots (dental fluorosis). The air is another mattter. http://poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/mexico.html
We are so tired, energy drinks are consumed like water. 24,000 Mexicans die each year from these cans of liquid poison. Impact on kidneys is devastating.
http://www.statista.com/topics/1224/sugar/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/20/fluoride-d...
Now there is a sane post from you Bunny...thumbs up
And yet nobody's even taken a pot shot at him in the last 7 years. "They" want it this way. For whatever reason. My best guess is they know the US is a lost cause at this point. Nothing useful to be done with the place so move on and set up shop elsewhere.
If I were going to label that queer shit I would call it a Facist. But yes he hates americans.
And white people.....
they knew if they could ever get a stupid nigger in the white house they could Detroit America. (I'm sorry stupid nigger is a redundant phrase. They knew if they could ever get the bottom of the bell curve into office....America would crumble from the top down.) They were right.
If you beieve that Barry is call any shots besides on the golf course then you are one dumb fuck.
Exactly.
Read 1984 again, with particular attention to this guy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein
I doubt you even know what a communist is. It's just a word you've been taught to hate - anything 'bad' is a 'communist' to people like you.
a communist is a murderer, pure and simple, you can ask the hundreds of million dead people in soviet union and china....oh wait
yeah russia is no longer 'communist', and seems to be fighting the good fight against the banksters...i have to say the more i read and hear the more i 'kind of' admire his fire.
unlike the the thin smoker in the rainbow house...the islamo-fascist
dart, you ARE close, however...the thin smoker in the rainbow house is an islamo-fascist...that is not mutually exclusive though. good post
"They don’t believe (the West’s) story at all. So I think what you are seeing here is the arrogance, hubris, and stupidity of the United States government. They are just handing every possible advantage over to the Russians."
The MIC has decided it's time to start over somewhere else on the globe. Raise a glass and toast the end of the American hegemony. Or don't. It's ending just the same, with or without your toast.