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Russia Sends NATO A Clear Message By Arming Fighter Jets With First Air-To-Air Missles
A month ago, US and Russian military officials signed a memorandum of understanding that included steps their pilots should take to avoid an inadvertent clash over Syria as they carry out separate air strikes against armed groups. That MoU has now been shredded, as it certainly did not involve Russian fighter jets operating above Syria being armed with short and medium range air-to-air missiles as a direct threat to other fighter jets also operating above Syria - mostly those of Turkey, France and the US.
Which is precisely what Russia has done as disclosed in an announcement moments ago by the Russian defense ministry, and furthermore, has released a clip as a warning to not only Turkey, but all NATO forces in the region, that any further provocations at its jets will be met with an immediate and proportional response.
Igor Klimov, spokesman for the Russian Air Force, said that "today, Russian Su-34 fighter-bombers have made their first sortie equipped not only with high explosive aviation bombs and hollow charge bombs, but also with short- and medium-range air-to-air missiles The planes are equipped with missiles for defensive purposes."
"The missiles have target-seeking devices and are capable of hitting air targets within a 60km radius."
And the video that was released to commemorate the warning to the "anti-ISIS" alliance:
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This is crazy. Everyone realizes we're talking about countries with nuclear fuck missles right?
Go Putin.
I hope he splashes a turkey.
No disrespect intended. I hope they don't.
Payback for turkey will be a bitch, but NATO started and now we play by Russian rules.
proportional is such a diplomatic term.
Funny, because Obama just sent Putin a CLEAR MESSAGE by shooting down the Russian jet
MANPADS are now being shipped out of the Port of Benghazi. Sound familiar?
Russian t-90 anti-MANPADS are being sent to Aleppo also...
So I guess we find out if Pootie-Poot has found an answer to TOW missiles.
As i see my Germans struggle to send recon-Tornadoes (no bombs) to Syria (Isn´t there the fuck enough recon done?),
i see somehow the script already written, that Russia will shoot down one of them.
Or so the story will be told, them bad Russians killing that unarmed airplane.
Would be the false flag with the most outcome. And in my opinion the only plausible reason Merkel wants them there.
Stay tuned.
> As i see my Germans struggle to send recon-Tornadoes (no bombs) to Syria
No bombs, but AGM-88 HARM (Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missile).
"Reconnaissance" does not exclude Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses.
For example, in the Kosovo War German Tornado ECR's were first in line to disable Yugoslavian radar.
Certainly lots of impressive tech but who again is the the enemy?
Lately, the answer is supposed to be "ISIS." If that doesn't work, try "Al Qaeda." Or maybe "Unicorns."
I'm going to go ahead and preemptively doubt that the HARMs are going to get thorugh the decoys and point defenses. HARMs were used extensively in Serbia and I am quite certain that the lessons learned were actually learned.
For your i nformation thosr F-15s will be shot down before they reach their HARM missile fire range. Russian air defenses covers more distance so tbose harm missiles cant really harm because they will not be in range before turks start falling down.
Did Putin maneuver NATO into firing the first shot? Kind of like FDR and Pearl Harbor?
And isn't it a long way from the North Atlantic to Turkey? What a farce!
NATO did not start anything. Turkey did. And Russians do know the difference between NATO and the countries within this alliance
Yep. Classic cut and run move by the US/EU. Should anything go wrong deny any involvement.
It's pretty sad if you believe that
Turkey is part of NATO.
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/nato_countries.htm
Russian military retaliation could lead to Turkey's invoking Article 5. At that juncture, there will be no
difference btw/ NATO and the countries wi/ the alliance except where there is. Furthermore, Turkey can
unilaterally close the Bopsorus.
"Come on "Dillos! Let's get it on!"
Not this time. Article 5 won't stand a chance.
TRK's the Aggressor. Attacked RUS in SYR; and already have been sending troops into SYR in an attempted Coup - for years.
Almost all European NATO Members have Refugee Influx and related Terror Alert Issues to deal with. FRA just got clipped by ISIL and Company. No way GRC will approve. One NATO Official in ITA called to DUMP TRK from the Team Roster. There're also these "ISIL Oil Trade" thingy that involves another Erdogan and an ISIL Women's Auxillary Membership Drive featuring yet another Erdogan, so I don't think NATO Members are going "All In" on behalf of Mr. Erdogan's "Ottoman Ambitions".
Here's another Illustration: Attack SYR; and risk Major Land/Sea/Air Strike Waves across the European Landmass, Baltic and Northern Seas. Med will be abuzz with Cruise Missiles flown in from RUS via IRQ/IRN.
RUS will take out TRK from the North, East, and South; and they have Refugees wandering all over the West.
Turkey would have NO legitimate strategic reason to do this to Russia, unless it acted as an extremely well-compensated/bribed proxy for US Ziocons. The NATO mantle is their insurance policy, they believe.
Turkey is the Schroedinger's Cat of NATO. It is simultaneously in and out of NATO. The exact state at any one moment is determined purely by the experimental conditions (= political expediency here).
Not really. Russia started these intrusions (everywhere) long ago, and long before Syria was an issue. Putin is a cold warrior, and he uses cold war tactics. Incursions and encroachments into other countries air space,or in close proximty to their aircraft/vessels, has long been part of his bag of tricks. Good on Turkey for popping him, its long overdue.
But then you wouldn't know that from anything out of ZH; the anti-American, pro-Russian lap dog.
I, alternatively, actually remember the Cold War well and suppot NATO. A rarity here, I know.
You know, just because you say something doesn't make it so. And repeating the same BS over and over fools only fools. You might want to try hanging out at huffpoo or the telegraph. Lots of like "minded" people there.
Well, if you're such a strong supporter of NATO, let me recommend a book for you to read: "NATO's Secret Armies, Operation Gladio" by Dr. Danielle Ganser - Professor, Basel University
If you get through reading that, you should have no more illusions to the depth and breadth of pure EVIL that is NATO.
Your handle, "Soph", is very appropriate. Your comments are very sophomoric.
Soph, I am a 'Real' American only interested in the Truth. I don't consider the leader's of this once great nation 'Americans'. They are Traitors of the highest order. If you are incapable (or unable) to see this then I cansider you one of them....no matter what you think of yourself. I wasn't there so I don't know the facts. However, I do know my 'leaders' lie to me about just about everything. So, I am first skeptical about what my own 'leaders' say. If you are so fearful that you blindly accept the status quo and their propaganda then you obviously are one of them (e.g. see Traitor)...
You are stuck in the Cold War dad. When was the last time you read any policy papers, been to Russia, and understand US and Russia have switched places. You talk of Russian ""incursions""while we have been invading countries since the Balkans, another NATO clusterfuck that provided KLA and crazies with territory, drugs, weapons and sex trade. We moved onto Afghanistan ..which is almost understandable, then an innvasion of Iraq for dodgy reasons leaving that a FUBAR. From there onto Libya, Syria...and Ukriane where US State Dept admitted spending 5 billion to topple the elected oligarch only to replace eith unelected. You are living in the past, Eisenhower and Kennedy are dead, and the USSA had been coopted by foreign and corporate intl interests. We are not in Kansas anymore Toto. Do you in your RIGHT mind think what this country is now, has one damn thing to do with US of WW2 or Cold War. If you can not see it, you live in the land of the blind and your grandchildren will curse you for it. My advice, ax your cable, start reading more extensively, stop drinking the kool aid passed out by bastards who do not give a shit if this country survives or not. The real patriot is the one who understands they are living in an occupied country, and do something about it.
<double post>
Your post was crap anyways doesn't matter.
I hear you, but I doubt President Pootie Tang would do a damned thing about it if happened once, and then Turkey would quickly understand their position.
One of Obama's often seen characteristics is his propensity to throw his former friends/family members/allies under the bus whenever convenient.
Throwing allies under the bus is SOP. Anyone fighting on the US's side has always been left behind, just ask all our Vietnamese allies, or the Iraquis during the gulf war.
You're right. Trusting the U.S. is a sucker's bet. GHW Bush is still back pedaling over the slaughter of Iraqis who he inspired to rise up against Saddam. Not to mention, who'd have thunk they'd use helicopters to crush that uprising?
montagnard
I wonder if the apparent US OK for the shootdown was the equivalent for US supposed indifference about Saddam Hussein's desire to take on Kuwait before the start of the 1st Iraq War.
Let me introduce you to my little friend.......
You misunderstood the article. The Movie Shark-Nato 3, Russian style is about to be released. Nothing to worry about. The Govt has you in good hands.
Everyone but the satanic psychopaths on the button.
It's actually not 'crazy' at all. In fact, considering what has already transpired, it is a very 'measured' response.
I was talking to my brother about that yesterday. We agreed that when listening to Putin and Lavrov that they are blunt but also measured in their responses to the press. Usually long, detailed factually based arguments and statements. Compare and contrast that with the warmongering Neocon buffoons like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. The difference in tone and rhetoric is stunning.
I watched CBS "Face the Nation" for the first time in 35 years. Now I know where all the comedy on TV has gone.
In one segment McCain and Lohan, er, Graham are sitting together. Their plan for ending the war in Syria? Have armies from Egypt, Jordan and Turkey invade backed by American ground forces.
For real.
Putin's been turning the other cheek provocation after provocation. Downed Malaysian passenger jet that the West tried blaming on Russia. Then a downed Russian passenger plane. Then this.
Yet time after time, instead of giving a reflex response, Putin was able to turn the situation to his advantage.
Pre-WW1 Germany was on a peaceful path, trying to establish trade routes with the East. The backbone of the "Drang nach Osten" campaign was the construction of the railway that would link Berlin to Baghdad (The Orient Express). All but the last 100 miles of the tracks were laid when Britain began actively sabotaging construction, sending armed divisions to Afghanistan and building up forces in Africa in order to cut Germany off. It was shortly joined by forces of what later became the united Allied armies. Oil haves, trying to prevent oil have-not's from securing energy independence.
Britain, unlike Germany had oil producing colonies. Russia US and Canada had plenty domestic discoveries. Germany had the best engineers, best factories, best education system... but no fuel. So when provoked, it responded violently. Went to war the 2nd time for the exact same reason.
Unlike Germany, modern Russia is fully self-sufficient, so it can afford to calculate its responses. And it does, unlike the West that is running out of time.
As Banksters salivate, in their minds this is going according to plan...
People talk about invoking NATO's article 5 had best ask themselves what has NATO available to send and the answer is very damned little. Europe has relied on America to protect their delicate butt, unfortunately for them President Zippy has degraded the military so badly that, at best, we only have one trained up and deployable division. They Russian army really isn't that great, but they have a lot more available troops a hell of a lot closer and they don't play the politically correct games. In a long war (4+ years) we would win. In a short, sharp war, we're fucked.....
You talk about this as if it were a football game. Once this thing gets started in earnest, there is no way of knowing what will happen.
I sat in the Fulda Gap during the good old days of Jimmy Carter, when we were on a continuous war warning and we were expected to fight hard and die well. We don't know what will happen, but it'll be bad and in our brave new world, we don't have the many months to ramp up production and train troops, which means we're either likely to lose or go nuclear and really lose......
Agreed. I'm a Canadian Troop and while we're shifting training away from "Asymmetrical" to a more standard Red vs Blue on the tabletop.. It would take months for us to get any useful amount of equipment and personnel overseas. We're nowhere even close t oour basic NATO obligations.
Not that I'm super sad about that.. As a frontliner, I'm none too interested in fighting an enemy like Russia.
A lot of the difference is our modern equipment is highly complex and we no longer have the manufacturing base that can produce a lot of equipment quickly and with things like the F-35 that require nearly two hours of maintenance for each hour of flight time you start to realize the extent of the problem. Then add in the extremely poor training and maintenance cycles along with poor morale and you begin to get an idea how bad it can be......
I am sure the Wehrmacht General Staff thought the same thing.
Any country that would allow Nancy Pelosi to hold high office AND have access to a microphone, IS batshit crazy. (there are many more but you get the gist)
Don't you understand they NEED crazy to paper over their criminality?
Blame needs to be assigned to someone, and I pray that there are military people >on both sides< that see through this latest brand of crazy..
Hands up if you still think that anyone saying that this is leading to WW3, is a conspiracy nut......
http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2015/11/us-gives-their-prox...
Is it me or did i just watch a porn movie.....
Yeah! No BRAKES ON THE CRAZY TRAIN.
They've been carrying Air-to-Air missiles from the beginning...R-27/R-73 series, this is just more ZH clickbait.
You'll know it's serious when they're carrying R-77 series.
Video says first time SU-34 has carried air-to-air missiles (along with bomb load.).
I'm not arguing about that, I'm saying the article's title is clickbait/misleading, it refers all Fighter jets rather than just the Su-34/Fighter-bombers.
Headline could certainly have been more precise, as well as spelling missiles properly. It doesn't use the word "all" however.
putin regime is corrupt till it’s core and from all sides, but it is only way for criminal putin regime to stay at power. In result whole system is corrupt and not healthy at all. Let’s look ar putin regime army – in what shape it is. Here are some articles that should help you understand and draw conclusion about putin regime army:
1.) Bombers, fighters, strike jets, fighter-bombers drops from the sky like flies. Just in 7 weeks putin regime had 7 crashes – and that is not during a war time, but during training.
“Since early June the air force has lost two Tu-95 “Bear” strategic bombers, two MiG-29 fighters, an older Su-24 strike jet, a newer Su-34 fighter-bomber, and most recently an Antonov An-12 military transport.”
2.) Missiles go wild during a Navy Day parade at occupied and illegally annexed Crimea, Sevastopol, putting in real life threat danger civilians who were watching parade
“..in the country on Sunday to celebrate Navy Day and the might of the Russian forces. Yet one rogue missile ruined the display: launched by the Russian frigate Ladny, the missile can be seen wildly spinning round and round before plummeting into the sea.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qyz_pHUnkg
3.) During a Victory parade rehearsal broke down so called “super tank” of putin regime that was supposed to threat NATO and it’s allies. In result – full embracement for putin regime:
“A new Russian tank touted by military analysts as a fearsome, ultra-advanced machine broke down during Victory Day parade rehearsals in Moscow on Thursday, leaving puzzled engineers red-faced.
According to Russian newspaper Moskovskiy Komsomolets, the tank came to a full halt and appeared to be experiencing difficulties even though the engine was still running. Other tanks trundled past as army officers approached the crew of the T-14 to discuss the situation. A military towing vehicle was dispatched to salvage the tank, but was unable to pull it away. ”
https://youtu.be/A-tghr4OTZg
4.) just when russian soldiers think they are safe because are not in one of those “super thanks” or fighter jets that drop from the sky or in one of those frigates which missiles goes wild, they got attacked at sleep… by a building where they are.
“Twenty-three Russian soldiers were crushed to death by rubble after their military barracks collapsed in Siberia, the Russian defence ministry said on Monday.
All four floors collapsed in one section of the building in the Siberian city of Omsk on Sunday evening as 42 Russian paratroopers were resting.
"All 42 soldiers who were under the rubble have been found. Twenty-three of them are dead," said defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov.”
5.) Russians who are not brainwashed by putin regime massive propaganda are not willing to fight for putin criminal plans and are leave unit fearing Ukraine deployment.
“Dozens of professional Russian soldiers are facing trial after abandoning a training base, according to media reports. The soldiers were allegedly pressured to "volunteer" for fighting in Ukraine. The troops were reportedly offered money and benefits from people in uniforms without insignia. The people then tried to motivate them to join the war in Ukraine, according to an article published Saturday on well-known news site Gazeta.ru.”
6.) Of course soldiers will more and more leave criminal putin regime, especially seeing how they are treated by putin regime when their captured by Ukraine army.
No honor from putin regime – no honor at all. No respect.
“Russia's Defense Ministry has formally disowned two soldiers captured in eastern Ukraine, saying the men had resigned from the army before crossing the border and their mission had "no connection" with Moscow's armed forces.
Colonel General Leonid Ivashov, head of the Russian think tank Academy of Geopolitical Problems, said that if the men were on active duty, Moscow should have done a better job standing behind them, Gazeta.ru reported.
"When we disown our soldiers, if they were indeed ours, that's not good," Ivashov was quoted as saying.
Instead, he suggested, the Defense Ministry "should have said that we are conducting intelligence operations, because there is a civil war going on and military action continues near Russia's borders," Gazeta.ru reported.”
Here is a bonus track to enjoy:
https://youtu.be/FxtURBpl1rA
At Least He's bombing the shit out of the USSA's Backed Devils. To me he surpassed Obama long ago as a leader of the free world. So take your shit piece of news and stuff it up your rear.
Oh hello, you think you can bomb your way to peace? You know, like the last 25 years of bombing Middle East didn't work, then maybe just one more year will do it? Don't fall for it.
Yeah, it sure didn't work in Japan. Oh wait...
Yes, bombing can work, but only when you back up bombing with ground forces. The reason US bombing hasn't worked is because they DIDN'T WANT IT TO WORK. Or rahter, they didn't want it to work in the way that they claimed they wanted it to in public. It has gone exactly according to their plan as laid out by the PNAC all the way back in 1999. Not since Mein Kampf has the "secret" official policy been so widely available and known so far in advance. The point is to destabilize all the parts of the middle east that have been destabilized in order to justify continuing US presense in and control of the region and their oil supplies while preventing the formation of a pan-Arab state, which would likely be as powerful as China or Russia.
Apebrain your tantrum is not good.
The only reason peace has not broken out is because no one is following the scorched earth policy for the win.
Standard Disclaimer: Who gets to write the history books?
Obozo & Co have lowered the bar so much that Putin looks pretty good in comparison by going after (among other groups) ISIS. The real questions here are not
1 "is Putin targeting groups other than ISIS"
2 "Is Putin doing anything horrible"
But rather
1 "Who cares if Putin is targeting groups other than ISIS, at least someone is going after ISIS"
2 "Are Obozo & Co even worse than Putin" (answer is yes)
We are so fucked
I'd add a "Who cares if other groups are targeted if said other groups are moderate groups formerly known as al Qaeda"
Didn't Barry just sign another half billion dollars in aid to those f*cks?
"Who cares if Putin is targeting groups other than ISIS, at least someone is going after ISIS"...We are so fucked"
And since ISIS IS the US, then yes, we are totally fucked.
Everyone must remember that what is on display is unbridled greed and avarice, playing out on the world stage with your lives and the lives of your family in the balance. There are no good guys at this level on the international stage. The real enemies are the sociopaths in the halls of (all) governments, not only but especially Mordor on the Potomac.
and you anglosaxon fuck are honest ???
And despite all that 1 nuke can fuck us all over
Don't downvote this guy. He's right, Putin is corrupt. He's been in power in Russia for how long? In a supposedly democratic country? He's little different from the Assad regime in his position and clinging to that position.
He happens to be in the correct position to take a morally correct stance internationally. Obummer himself put him in that position. Putin only looks like a saint because our idiot elites put him in that position.
We aren't makin' no saint outa Putin, but we do recognize rational, intelligent discourse and leadership.
<--Putin for sainthood
<--Putin is simply being the leader of RUSSIA, not the world
He's in power because the people keep voting him back in. Same thing happened in the US with FDR (despite the fact that he was directly responsible for the unending Depression they were in at the time).
You can't become a saint without being martyred. No, he is not a saint, but a HERO who has stood up against an evil empire. Would a person who would otherwise be called a hero still be so called if there were no evil empire to stand against? No, he'd just be a guy. Maybe a nice guy. Maybe even a jerk-off asshole.
As for corruption, I would say that Putin really isn't. Corruption means going against the interests of your people for personal gain. Everything Putin has done has benefited Russia and her people. He has gained a great deal to be sure, but that has largely been at the expense of legitimately corrupt oligarchs.
"He's in power because the people keep voting him back in."
Because real opposition (not controlled one just for show) is either jailed, killed or not allowed to register to take part in elections.
"Everything Putin has done has benefited Russia and her people."
Really?
putin regime in eyes of ordinary russian seems to be doing right job by standing against everyone and everywhere. Seems is correct word, because he is not putting Russians and Russia in first place, because he:
Is that in interest of russians? I don't think so.
Spare us your crocodile tears...
The best proof that Putin is doing right thing for Russia is when one sees Russia-haters (such as yourself) criticize him.
The best proof that Hitler is doing right thing for Germany is when one sees German-haters (such as yourself) criticize him.
Lolol so you turned from nato eastern flank basement troll to nazi apologist.
Eh? "He's little different from the Assad regime in his position". Are you referring to the fact that he's the freely-elected head of a democracy? Both are (Assad, Putin). Well, of countries certainly no less democratic than the USSA, that's for sure. And he's "corrupt"...that could NEVER happen here, could it.
I will tell you what I told the last NSA stooge to do what you just did.
You are SUPPOSED to save your talking points to make relevant points. You do not data dump the sheet into a single post. You fuck up your believability that way. It is certainly nice intel to see what your masters are wanting to push in social media but this sort of thing is going to get you fired for being incompetent.
Have you spoken to Snowden?
Let's be frank. Putin is no angel but Hillary is clearly the devil. Russia is no paradise but the US is quickly becoming hell.
As for Russia's airforce and military mishaps, perhaps you could explain how they have managed to really dent ISIS without hitting hospitals and wedding parties.
P.S. I admire your ability to research, think and write so quickly.
Not much ability he has for research, think, write when he just copypaste as instructed by State Department training manual.
i DIDN'T THINK THE SARC BUTTON WAS NECESSARY
Nobody has denied the Russians use propaganda. Nobody has claimed the Russians are as pure as the driven snow. Nobody accused the Russians of being stupid either. At least they didn't covertly create and fund ISIS, then pretend to fight it for two years. And they weren't the ones who lied when they said they would not extend NATO to Russia's doorstep.
Might as well post your wall of words in Russian for all anyone here is going to read it. I called BS on your troll post after the first line
In the aftermath of the Ukrainian crisis, The Moscow Times was criticized by a number of journalists like Izvestia columnist Israel Shamir, who in December 2014 called it a "militant anti-Putin paper, a digest of the Western press with extreme bias in covering events in Russia".[2]
You cite articles written by a Western owned, avowed anti-Putin newspaper like The Moscow Times and globalist papers like the International Business Times and the Telegraph.. Bunch of propaganda.
And you cite Izvestia in return. One man's propaganda is another man's gospel.
Here is what I try to do (but often fall short of)...
I try to read the opinions (for that is all they are) being issued from every side I can find and then make my own mind up. I don't consider the British newspapers as great sources for domestic British news but they often have a lot of very useful things to say about developments in the US that are suppressed over here. Likewise, the NY Times is a horrible propaganda rag for domestic content but their foreign correspondents often provide a lot of very interesting backstory that is not available anywhere else.
It's true that my own personal viewpoint that all modern governments are equally corrupt crony kleptocracies colors my view of things so that I see Putin as a moral equivalent of guys like Obama and Xi and Erdogan and Merkel and Cameron and whoever else rules rather than as the solution to the world's problems.
I do understand that others do not see things this way and prefer to place their faith in some government, some hero, somewhere. Perhaps they are making the right move and I am a hopeless dreamer. We won't have too long to wait before we all know who has placed their money on the right bet.
Sorry bit new york times foreign issues coverage is nothi g but filled with US state department centric propaganda dr8vel and inane rumblings. Go Figure. Their backstories are as biased as your Muritard govt's press releases.
You cabt find such details anywhere " Perhaps US media seriously sucks because there are alternate sources giving backstories with proof exposing your Murkans loophopes eg. SYRIA.
Read dissidents voice article on it.
Fuck off Xenu from crack - planet !
You wrote that in ten minutes?
Methinks we have ourselves a shill here.
And looking at the content of your post, it is clear that you are a Soros funded shill.
I want to hang you from a streetlamp you fucking destroyer.
Actually, its a repost from something that he did a while back. Doesn't take much time to cut and paste your own previous work.
So he doesn't like Putin. What's the big deal? Is everyone around here required to adore the man or remain silent?
Latvian you're just a scumbag potato troll, ordinary dandruff hair texture.
Not tired, the posts copy? How much for post cut? You got a lot of potato earning.
BTW, for news on the criminal Straujuma regime is the Lawless Latvia site.
http://www.lawlesslatvia.com/
Some might think he's a ukie, but he was probably just trained in Kiev then shipped back to Riga in a box with several of his cohorts. Then it's add a little water et voila! Instant troll ala mode with gov't funded bandwidth included. And to think these freaks are our allies... sheeesh.
same shit'd happen to the US military, if they didn't get the most of what every military on the planet CRAVES:
LFTE = "Live Fire Training Exercise"
Russia's just coming up to speed
[PS: why hasn't the Ukraine, the EU, or the USA simply articulated, "Hey world...we're tired of being Russia's bitch" ??]
American regime is corrupt till it’s core and from all sides, but it is only way for criminal Neocon regime to stay at power. There; fixed it for 'ya...
What do you call it when three bear birds are flying toward a single target?
A Turkey Shoot!
They think we'll back down, they're wrong !!!
Wait, their Su-34s didn't already have air to air missiles?
That is kind of odd. I can understand the Su 24, but the 34s should already be equipped for every sortie.
pods
If the idea was to bomb isis (whatever that is) then there would be no need for them. They have no planes.
Don't be silly. There are no ideas in war. When one have multi-million dollar assets in the air, they need protection. The USSA has learned its lesson year ago and now FOLLOWS THE CHECKLIST. Russia probably had the same checklists but just didn't follow them.
So an oversight? Give me a fucking break.
Having air-to-air in that area would have been an aggressive posture against NATO. It would have been provocative. Now that NATO was aggressive, they throw them on. It makes perfect sense.
Remember, Russia stated that they didn't expect to get shot down. If you take an air to air off the wing, you can hang a bomb instead. I guess they were mistaken to trust people that can't be trusted. But the Russians won't let that be repeated. That you can be sure of.
Turks are just running the same program, as seen by Christian Armenians when they were caught between the Czar and the Turks during WW1. The Greek Christians saw this genocide program in the 1450s when they fled from Constantinople to northern Europe.
That is kind of odd. I can understand the Su 24, but the 34s should already be equipped for every sortie.
In the MoU betweeen Russia and the USA on air operations around Syria it was agreed that both sides would not employ air to air missiles to avoid "unintended consqequences". With the shoot down of the Russian SU-24 that agreement has been thrown in the toilet . . . .
someone had to wake up the western nato citizens to the fact that their own governments were supporting the terrorists with taxpayers money just to stay in the politico game. sarkozy, bush, merkel,cameron,blair, obama, et all should be in a jail cell
If the best way to control the Opposition, is to create it yourself, then...
"The best way to control Terrorists, is to create your own - using a Terrorist Flystrip." -Kirk
The added bonus of having your DIY terrorists, is that you can roll up and trash an old Terrorist Flystrip, and attract splitters to a brand new one. ---> Perpetual war (on terrorism) for perpetual peace (and perpetual MIC funding) and turning solvent countries into Debt-slaves.
I have a friend in the military who has been scared to death that the escalation we are watching would happen. And he started telling me all this was a possibilty 5 years ago.
Is he dead yet?
He should get out.
Psychopath assholes cannot fight wars if they don't have anyone to send to fight for them.
I'm hearing it from people I know, too. They've been watching it coming. One's retired. He's got it together. His son's in, and is doing well, but I think the son wants to bag it, because he isn't one of the wimp generation, knows the real history, has his story straight, and gets the big picture. The brainwashed will stay, and become fodder for the elitists. I think most will fight like Saddam Hussein's army fought. With no true moral high ground, and without a clear, just purpose, you don't fight. Period.
Russia may be coming to the realization that developing a high-tech weapon system is not the same as fielding it en masse, or even in relatively limited numbers. This appears to be the case for both the T-14 “Armata” tank, the T-50 5th generation fighter, and signs are possibly the PAK-DA next generation bomber.
The T-14 has been Russia’s most celebrated new weapon system as of late. Regardless of its capability (though it’s by no means a “silver bullet” weapon system), in order to be really effective it needs to be fielded in relevant numbers. Originally the idea was to replace the majority of Russia’s front-line stable of ‘legacy’ main battle tanks with the T-14, amounting to about 2,300 in total, with production ramping up in the short term.
Instead of producing thousands of the tanks over next five years or so,some analysts put the number as little as a few hundred. This is partly because the cost of the tank has ballooned to about two and half times what was originally projected. As a result, the Kremlin will likely focus on modernize existing system, such as its T-72 and T-90 tank force.
The same situation is also occurring with the Kremlin’s new stealthy fighter, the Sukhoi T-50. Originally the Russia was aiming at building about 150 T-50s by 2020, then the number was scaled back to just 52 units with the first batch entering operational service in 2016. Now, that number is being drastically scaled back once again to just 12 aircraft,which really equates to an expanded test and operational validation force at best. What’s worse is that as production numbers plummet, unit costs increase. This is what is commonly referred to in Pentagon parlance as a weapons program “Death Spiral.”
India, which has invested partially in the T-50 project (also referred to as the PAK-FA) for its own derivative of the jet, has also been less than enamored with its progress and capabilities. Not to mention that the Indian Air Force just spent billions of dollars on 36 French Rafale fighterswith more almost certainly on the way.
Then there’s the fact that there are tensions between the two nations when it comes to maintaining Inida’s existing Su-30MKI fleet. Spare parts availability and engine reliability have also been of major concern when it comes to India Su-35MKIs. This, along with other major recent purchases by India of aircraft made by western aerospace manufacturers, leads many to believe that New Delhi may turn away from Russia for its military aircraft needs.
All this equates to a fighter program that may slow to snail’s pace. As such, it then blurs the lines between a very costly research and development experiment and an actually viable front-line weapon system that Russia can hang its air combat helmet on for the foreseeable future.
Finally, we get to Russia’s next-generation bomber, the PAK-DA. Recent declarations that Russia will be putting the Tu-160 Blackjack back into production may be telling as to the future bomber’s feasibility. The choice to put a Cold War era bomber, one that was highly expensive back then and will be now, while also upgrading their existing force, seems like odd choices for an air arm that supposedly has a cutting edge bomber that will be flying by the end of this decade and coming online operationally around the middle of the next.
Part of this is just a numbers game and part of it is a reality — or lack thereof — game. Russia has been hit by sanctions in a way that is directly affecting their weapons procurement strategy, there is no doubt about it. This was not planned for five years ago or more when many of these programs were being launched.
Still, the valley between what Russia says it can do economically and what it actually can do is so wide that sanctions alone can’t explain the massive slowdown in Russia’s military modernization. It’s clear that Russia is simply unrealistic when it comes to its military technology ambitions.
This is hardly an uncommon phenomenon. The Pentagon has its own woes in this regard as well, although the unraveling of so many key and trumped up programs so fast has not been seen when it comes to the U.S., even in the Department of Defense’s post sequester reality.
With all this in mind, we will probably see just enough T-14s and T-50s to participate in parades, flyovers and to spearhead military exercises, but Russia will most likely continue to fall back on procuring and updating existing conventional weaponry while drastically updating their submarine and land-based nuclear capabilities. This offers a maximum “bottom line” deterrent while also maintaining a usable and affordable conventional force. It also allows Putin and the Kremlin to continue on without losing clout with the Russian people by not having to fully cut leading-edge programs seen as a national source of pride and international competitiveness. And it allows Russia to continue to parade around these programs while actively trying to sell them to anyone with who will buy into them.
This more rationalized approach to weapons procurement is not unlike that of the Cold War. We often forget that even at the height of tensions between East and West, America had to buy the F-16 and F-15 due to budgetary limitations, and that is just one example. A high-low capability mix was a strategy of necessity as much as anything else. The same was true for the USSR to an even greater degree, where numerical advantage was chosen more over a qualitative one.
The policy of procuring an almost all gold-plated, maximum capability at seemingly any cost force is an advent of the post-Cold War military industrial complex. It remains as unrealistic as it was in the Cold War, for both the U.S. and Russia. Russia is now having to come to terms with this reality, while the U.S. is not... yet.
So what's your point bitch?
That Russia doesn't have near the ability to finance their military with money created out of thin air like the U.S. does?
That being said, the American people have grown soft and tired of war, while the Russian people are HARD. I wouldn't bet against them.
That being said, the American people have grown soft and tired of war, while the Russian people are HARD. I wouldn't bet against them.
Fucking A!!
Point is way above his pay-grade.
troll
new nic jizboy ? but you still working for half of a rotten potato ?
News Flash: The USA can't afford its weapons either.
Agreed. Bankrupt country vs. non-bankrupt country. US debt to GDP: 108%. Russia debt to GDP: 17%.
DIS-agree! The USSR went bust after 1990's arms race, while the USA is still working on its Big BK. Russia is a possible source of value now as it sports a very low CAPE. Russkies are dealing now with the aftermath of their Soviet empire's destruction; such as being taken over by their seurity/secret police operations.
When the Berlin Wall came down, so did the the Soviet currency along with the other Iron Curtain country currencies. Poland devalued by 90%, wiping out everyone's savings down to 10 cents on the dollar. Germany had a tough time while assimilating East Germany.
Yea but they've got no revenue. Oil is finished. They have oil and weapons. Actually, they are doing a brisk business there because the Western MIC can take 95% of that production out of the game in about 10 minutes.
Lolol wishful thi ker and wet dreamer alphacretin.
Zinu you are fucking GOOD!!! This story posted at 10:53 and you posted this fucking tome at 11:05. So you pulled this all together in 12 minutes eh? You must work for the air to air Turkish warning system too.
That's in addition to the other long post above it, chock full of links.
As greenskeeper carl says, ZH deserves much better trolls.
They really need to up their game beyond cut n paste.
Correct, Michigander, nothing spontaneous ‘bout zinu.
I’ll call him as a PR subcontractor of The Carlyle Group.
His mission statement being:
i) Identify and demonize potential enemies of the Western banking collation member countries.
ii) List the hi-tech weaponry that these potential enemies have developed. Make them sound fearsome but counterable with further investment in cutting edge expensive weapon systems being developed by the MIC (The Carlyle Group?).
iii) Keep the war drums pounding in the background to add a sense of urgency to all weapons procurement programs.
Or some variation of the above.
An effective PR campaign includes detailed information delivered promptly at the proper moment. …Or... ASAP upon the posting of an article such as this one.
His comments are prepared in advance and then cut and pasted. ….. And it’s payday!
Am I warm, zinu?
~ DC
Sure. Ok. Lets take a look.
---
Russia sold more than $15 billion worth of arms in 2014, President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday, adding that new signed orders stood at nearly $14 billion.
Putin also said Russia exported military equipment to more than 60 countries last year, when its ties with the West hit a rocky bottom over the conflict in Ukraine.
"Russia will expand its presence on such prospective markets and the Asia-Pacific region, Africa, Latin America and the Carribbean," Putin told a meeting at the Kremlin.
"Exports of high-tech military products is important for Russia, especially amid the difficult geopolitical situation. It is important for updating the production of the defense sector...and solving many social issues."
So you think Russia is selling weapons because western mic isnt interested in expan di ng its production ? Hahahahahahwhat about agreeing to thosr countries not interested in Murkans shiny junk.
It's a cut and paste from an online defense journal written several months back. Not a real hard slog to get it out there in ten minutes.
But let me ask you a serious question, since you are a "Don't Tread On Me" America First type of guy who undoubtedly hates the very idea of big oppressive government. Why aren't you on the side of some insignificant little Latvian dude who is worried about the nearest big oppressive government in his neighborhood?
Is there really an American, as opposed to a US government, interest in what happens between Turkey and Russia? Or in stifling the opinions of one guy who doesn't agree with the common narrative?
I mean, I'm here at ZH at least partially because my opinions are presumably unwelcome on "Establishment" sites that enforce a rigorous ideological purity that requires absolute compliance with the narrative they wish to push. I assume the same factors at least partially apply to you as well.
Doesn't it seem sad that a bunch of refugees fleeing political oppression should gather together and immediately start to enforce the same sort of loyalty tests from which they were forced to flee? Does this not make them the moral equivalent of the very same people and forces they claim to oppose?
I'm not really busting on you but just speaking out about something that has been on my mind for a couple of days. Hope you understand.
I lived through the second half of the cold war and always knew the enemy was communism, not Russians. It seems like the IOC (Idiots in Charge) think they can re-awaken an enmity with Russia, but I think they're wrong.
We know ISIS is evil. We know ISIS was armed, funded, and protected at least to some extent by Obama. We know Russia is fighting ISIS.
This makes Obama the enemy and Russia the ally of America. Right now America is run by an enemy. The only saving grace is the sheer inertia of the bureaucracy.
There are plenty of big governments out there to fight. Our first fight is with the big government here which is causing havoc world-wide.
No "we" don't. Complete bullshit...
Yes and you never can retard.
Russia may be coming to the realization that developing a high-tech weapon system is not the same as fielding it en masse, or even in relatively limited numbers.
Interesting . . . where'd you get your information from, a Department of Defense press release or something (pretty CNN 'esqe if you ask me)?
The idiots in D.C. want to believe this kind of BS because otherwise they don't stand a chance in hell in winning a conflict with Russia. Also, Russia's new electronic warfare systems are relatively cheap and already have started to be mass produced. NATO and the USA have NO countermeasures to those systems - which can totally disable military communications, radars and targeting systems. Just ask the crew of the USS Donald Cook about the effectiveness of those systems . . . . .
"Russia Can't Afford To Buy Its New Super Weapons"
Don't you worry none because "I know".
I have a telegam in front of me from Pres Putin who says he'll get the money by raping and pillaging Latvia and stealing all their potatoes.
Where is it you live, again??
I read that one a while back but it is probably (not particularly well received) news to some of the folks around here.
It's not really much of a surprise. Russia isn't anywhere near as strong as the USSR once was and doesn't have the financial muscle to match western procurements one-to-one, even when they are militarily asleep at the wheel-- as they are now.
But the ideal of the old Russian steamroller lives on even when the machinery itself is long dead. In any full-scale war with the West, Russia only has two options: Die heroically after a short period of success similar to that enjoyed by the Japanese after Pearl Harbor or elevate to nuclear exchanges.
Even as Russia downsizes its forces in favor of a more professional group than the old unmotivated draftees could provide, Britain is starting to rearm, Japan is starting to rearm, Poland is starting to rearm, no doubt France is starting to rearm, after 1/20/17 the United States will start to rearm, Ukraine is starting to rearm, hell-- even the Austrians are starting to rearm but only on a citizen level.
Whatever geopolitical objectives Russia may have in mind, they have a limited timeframe in which to achieve them. That is one of the biggest drawbacks of the Syrian war for Russia. The flood of refugees into Europe is hardening up the population to the idea of defending their own sovereignty and national interests. The Muslim-in-chief will soon be riding off into the sunset and someone, ANYONE, will be sitting in the Oval Office with a greater determination to defend American interests.
Not really a question of who is right but of how much ammunition they have in their belts. The world is on its way to a very frightful period of history. Everyone everywhere is about to be called up to the fiery altar of war. Wishing you all well on a personal basis.
"Being in the right is a force multiplier." -SAM
>>>
...Die heroically after a short period of success...
<<<
Probably true if Russia goes on offensives.
But if anyone decides to invade Russia, history suggests Russians will fight very hard indeed.
And if they turn the fight around...
Watson
USA USa usa....
The good old USA is gonna get its war everyone wants so badly.
Just like WWII the Millennials will be streaming to the recruiting stations volunteering for duty..... oh wait!
If their cool, hip messiah drafted their asses, it would be a form of poetic justice.
Gee, I hope none of them get their feelings hurt.
Q: their Su-34s didn't already have air to air missiles?
A: No they did not exactly because of te mentioned above memorandum of understanding
Buy the dip. Fed and ECB have your back. Easy money.
ATTENTION! …. Attention on the line. … The Syrian Weapons Testing Range is now hot. …I repeat, the range is now hot. ….. Proceed accordingly.
~ DC
New rules of engagement for the Russian air forces....
See a turkey, splat a turkey
See an eagle, splat an eagle
Sounds like extra-judicial punishment. Very illeagle...
More advanced weapons.
Entrenched strategies.
Nobody is backing down.
We're well on the way to a new Cold War.
Russia doing eveything except firing the first salvo leading to WWIII
What say you,Ash?
You missed something. NATO already fired the first salvo leading to WWIII.
after reading my comment..it sounds like i am Anti-USSR
I AM NOT
What i meant was...Russia is doing everything to PROTECT themselves EXCEPT firing the first salvo.
USSR IS THE LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME.
I stand corrected.
USSR is defunct
whoops, I didn't see your comment until after posting mine :-(