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A Brief Rumination on the Coming Cashless Society

chumbawamba's picture




 

Today, I hired an independent researcher to do some legal consulting for me.  We agreed on a $100 "detainer".  Since I began checking out of the system in 2009, and mainly to avoid any more contact with the IRS, I stopped doing business with all banks.  I don't have any bank accounts of any kind, no credit cards, and I don't even have a debit card through services like PayPal because they're all tied in to the same corrupt banking system, and the IRS can (and most likely will) find you or at least your money by data mining your banking records.  So to eliminate this attack vector I primarily operate with United States Notes (better known to the sheep as Federal Reserve Notes), i.e. cash.  So to pay the detainer should have been a simple matter of running over and depositing a $100 note into my researcher's account at my local Chase Bank branch.  Nope.

When I got there, the teller informed me that Chase does not accept cash deposits.  The funds had to be in the form of a check or they could do a debit or an advance on a debit/credit card.  I told her I thought that was a very silly policy and she gave me one of those, "Oh well, fuck you" smiles.  This was actually in the news last year, and Chase's official policy is here.  The reason they give for this is: "We’re trying to do more to combat money laundering and other criminal activities", which is banker euphemism for "We're slowly phasing out cash from society to make it easier to control and manipulate all of you serfs MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"  I inquired if Chase would accept a post office money order, and she replied in the affirmative.  Haha, bitch, the day is mine!

In the years since I went all cash, I've learned a few tricks and "backdoors" to still get paid for the particular expertise I dispense for money and to also pay for services where a check is required.  Of course there are gift cards issued by Visa, MasterCard, American Express, etc., which act in most cases like normal credit cards.  But in fact once you register the card you have opened a bank account with the issuing bank.  The fact that you had to provide a Social Security Number to register the card should have clued you in (read the fine print on the bottom of the page here; note "Green Dot Bank ... Member FDIC").  You can use these cards for up to 2 weeks as a straight debit card without registering (at least that was the case when I experimented with a WalMart MoneyCard using the Green Dot Bank network).  After that, you won't be able to use it until you register it (with a SSN) or else you can return it and have the balance refunded.  If you are going to use a gift card, I suggest getting one of the above mentioned and using it up within the registration grace period, or get a speficially non-reloadable gift card (edit: which do not require registration with SSN) that expires once it's depleted (i.e. it's more like actual cash, and if you lose it, you lost it).  However, unless I want to order something online or make a reservation that requires some sort of credit card, I prefer to stay away from the banks altogether and use US Postal Service Money Orders.

First of all, the post office has an interesting history in the United States, and although the modern United States Postal Service is officially "an independent establishment of the executive branch" (see 39 U.S.C. § 201) it actually rests in its own jurisdiction.  I can't get into the intricacies of what this all means (primarily because I haven't researched it all out myself), but I do know that USPS Money Orders are not governed by the same laws that govern, say, national banks, or even money orders issued by independent operators.  For example, I can walk into a post office and purchase a money order up to a denomination of $2,000.00 for a fee of $1.60 (or up to $500.00 for $1.25).  I don't have to present anything other than the order and the cash.  No ID is required.  The clerk takes the money and your fee, makes up the money order, and hands it back to you, blank except for the imprinted amount.  Whereas, if you were to purchase a money order from e.g. a grocery store, as of a few years ago you are now required to present ID, which is recorded in some fashion (to prevent fraud and thwart terrorism, of course).  In other words, it's still tied in with the banking system, and subject to banking laws.

As mentioned, the USPS money order is blank and it's up to you to fill it out.  If you want you can just leave it blank and hold it indefinitely as cash; when you want to spend it you fill it out to yourself and cash it.  Or you can spend it as cash with anyone who will accept it (think precious metals dealers, people).  You can fill it out, or just hand it to them and let them fill it out, and get any change coming back in cash.  The best part is you don't need a bank account to cash them; you can simply go to any post office, present it for payment (with ID), and you get handed back a pile of notes and coins.  Now, this isn't always fullproof: sometimes the teller doesn't have the cash at hand to cash out your entire money order if it's particularly large, so you will either have to go at the end of the day when their coffers are filled or find a post office that does more volume and therefore will have more cash on hand.  It's a pain when they don't have enough money to cover the instrument; to me that's fraud, or more specifically check-kiting (try using the "Oh well, sorry!" excuse yourself when you bounce a check and see what happens).  I've tried yelling at the staff and complaining to the Postmaster General, but there's really not much you can do other than sue in court...an interesting proposition, and one I would like to research some other time when I don't have so many fires already raging.  At any rate, it's a reasonable trade-off for being free from the banksters and their shitty, almost arbitrary and capricious anonimity-assaulting rules.  Also, there's never a fee to cash the money order, whereas most banks charge a $5-$10 fee for cashing a check drawn on the bank for non-account holders.

So continuing my saga, off I went to the post office to exchange the piece of paper I had in my pocket for another piece of paper that Chase bank would be happy to accept (after having to wait in line for half an hour; ironically I had a $900 money order waiting for me at my mail pick-up but I wasn't able to cash it on the spot because it was still too early in the day :\).  I then went back over to Chase and handed them the money order, my anonimity and freedom preserved, and my researcher paid.  My time wasted.

I wanted to write about this in the same way I wrote about the shantytowns popping up in Stockton, California.  It's one thing to talk about it, and in the case of the looming cashless society, to piss and moan over it, but when it actually arrives in the form of a small incremental move like the above, and it confronts you, it is prudent to take heed.  This is a harbinger of the cashless society that is slowly creeping over us.  The clock is ticking.  Take advantage of it while you can, because once it's gone, so is another aspect of our freedom.  And unless an alternative currency not controlled by any particular government comes to the fore, or precious metals make a big comeback as currency, or barter returns to local communities as a big aspect of our local economies again, or perhaps some new currency spontaneously pops up in some part of the country or world that takes off organically, unless something replaces the relatively free currency we have presently, we will have lost forever a fundamental aspect of our freedom.  If even our petit spending money on things like a quick snack at the gas station on the way home or an eighth of weed from your local dealer is controlled by international banksters, how free can you really be?  If you don't have the credits to even pay for a drink because the government cut you off for not being patriotic enough--if you don't have the mark--what will you do?

I am Chumbawamba.

 

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Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:16 | 6866454 Jack4952
Jack4952's picture

United States Notes (USN) are NOT the same as Ferderal Reserve Notes (FRN)!!! The last time the U.S government issued USN was under President JFK, when he signed an executive order. His goal: to eventually undermine the Federal Reserve (a private bank) and the U.S Treasury issue it own notes as "money" - just as it did BEFORE the Federal Rreserve Act was passed in 1913. Instead of the U.S. paying the Federal Reserve 6% interest for FRNs, the USNs would mean NO interest woulfd be paid by the U.S. governement to the Federal Reserve.

A small amount of USNs were issued (I forget how many hundred millions), with much more soon to follow. The people within the Federal Reserve went "nuts" and pressured Congress - but JFK persisted. Hence, the executive order.

Shortly thereafter, JFK was murdered (probably the CIA, which JFK intended to abolish), along with help from Naval Intelligence and others.

A few days after JFK's death, Pres Johnson ordered the Treasury to get ALL the USNs in circulation and destory them. This took several years, but some still exist. (My father had one framed and placed on the wall in our living room.) He was a Republican, but on these issues he agreed with JFK.

I lived through those times.

Of note: JFK's executive order was NEVER rescinded - it was simply ignored up to the present day. (Each new President usually RENEWS all previous presidents' executive orders without anyone reading them. Thus, JFK's executive order for USNs keeps getting (unknowingly) renewed by each new president!!! And those politicians (such as the older, experienced sentors and Congressmen) do not to want it remewed, but are afraid that are afraid that if a president does NOT renew it, it brings the issue back into public debate. And it would then reveal to the "masses" how they have been getting "screwed" by the Federal Reserve and IRS (the Federal Reserve's "collection agency"). In fact, the IRS is NOT a true U.S. government agency, but was first based in the Philippines, then moved to Puerto Rico - which remains it true base of operations. (How do I know this? Years ago there was a court case in which IRS agents and senior attorneys at the U.S. Treasury and top U.S. attorneys within the Justice Dept. submitted sworn AFFIDAVITS stating the above was true. Against objections from the plaintiff's lawyer, the judge excused all of the above from testifying in-person at the trial and allowed only those affidavits. The court then ruled against the plaintiff and the judge ordered the case SEALED indefinitely.

But someone got hold of some of the ORIGINAL affidavits - and years later published them later as TEXT and COLOR PHOTOS. I have COLOR COPIES of 2 of these affidavits, which are posted on my BLOG.

If you search the Internet long enough, you will find them on. But NOT by using a search engine such as GOOGLE, which is told NOT to list such documents.

My LAW BLOG: http://JohnHenrryHill.Wordpress.com

(NOT my real name.) I had posted them on my previous LAW BLOG, but after a visit by the FBI several years ago, that blog was shut down by me.

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 15:00 | 6866691 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Have you studied David Merrill?  He says (and I have not independently verified this yet) that Ron Paul in 1986 introduced legislation that made FRNs dual purpose notes.  They are now both FRN and USN.

If you look at any FRN, there are two seals: the one on the left is the Federal Reserve System seal; the one on the right the US Treasury seal.  In commerical law, everything on the left side of an instrument is the debtor side, and everything on the right is the creditor side (think of a ledger, where debits are on the left and credits written on the right side of the ledger).

So the FRS seal represents the note as a FRN, while the US Treasury seal represents the note as a USN.  How you receive it depends on what it is.  When I withdraw from the bank or cash any check, anytime I receive cash, I endorse my slip, "REDEEMED IN LAWFUL MONEY PER 12 USC 411 <signature>".  This is my averment that the notes I received were received as lawful money, i.e. US Notes, and not FRN.

Again, I have not independently verified this myself but David Merrill breaks it all down in various recordings he's done.  I don't have a link offhand but will provide one upon request.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 15:47 | 6866969 Luck Dragon
Luck Dragon's picture

This "IRS is not a government agency" thing keeps popping up, and after my research it would seem to be false. I can dig up the court case I found later, but it was the IRS vs a Trust and they used that argument and lost, there was another document I found dismissing the claims and explaining how it's a gov agency. The one example everyone uses is the PR company that was registed as "Internal Revenue and Audit Service" that went out of business many years ago, it's not even the same name. I feel like this is a distraction.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 17:47 | 6867787 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Evidentially based arguments can be made for either case.  That's the frustrating thing I've found about case law: for all the decisions you can find supporting your claim, you can find a bunch or as many that do the opposite.  However, you have to dig deeper and understand the details of each case that lead to the court's decision.

It all comes down to status and jurisdiction.  An argument that might work for one person in one case might not work for another, because the facts of each case may involve different types of "persons", some subject to the Internal Revenue Code, some not.

You have to read and comprehend all the pertinent facts in each case before determining that the whole thing is BS.  I am of the opinion that the IRS is in fact based in Puerto Rico and--most importantly--only has jurisdiction over US citizens and "US persons" that are taxpayers.  There are "taxpayers" and "nontaxpayers".  I don't have the case cite off-hand and don't even remember it, but basically it makes a distinction between those who are beholden to the income tax and those who are not.  There are in fact the two classes.  You become a taxpayer voluntarily.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 17:49 | 6867800 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ah, here we  go:

http://famguardian.org/subjects/Taxes/Remedies/TaxpayerVNontaxpayer.htm

WARNING: the above website is a rabbit hole of epic proportions.  Proceed at your own risk (and be prepared to read volumes of material if you follow all the links as suggested).

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:03 | 6866373 My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

Chum,

yes, I have missed your comments too.  But, in some ways you sound like a "tax refugee" without a refuge. 

When I go up to Vermont in the summer, I see all kinds of cars floating around with Florida license plates.  Their owners used to live in MA, CT, NY or NJ when they were younger and working.  Now, they keep their VT homes and stay in them for less than 180 a year.  For the remainder of the year, they are domiciled in FL, which has no state personal income tax.  We call them "tax refugees".  Those people would rather live in  VT full time or stay near their families on the East Coast - but, they still earn a lot of money and avoid 10% state tax.

Those writing about Peter Schiff's father are not making idle comments.  Those in charge will go extreme lengths to maintain the tax system. 

However, few people write in this forum about setting up your own corporation and taking all of the tax breaks taken by other corporate owners, both big and small.  If you work for someone and get a W-2, then this is not a solution for you.  But, if you or your spouse has your own business, then you can do something.  It requires a lot of work to learn the ropes - if you are willing to give up 200 hours of TV time and read everything and anything on the Internet, you will learn what you can do or not do. 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:51 | 6866658 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Corporations are entities registered with the government.  By incorporating you are asking the government for a privilege, and so now you are beholden to it.

I prefer private international trusts formed without the United States.

See http://passingbucks.com

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 19:22 | 6868281 My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

Chum,

that is true of foreign trusts too.  It all boils down to a matter of fidelity.  Is the trust company going to be there tomorrow.  Remember Allen Sanford and his International bank based in the Caribbean.  His deal was a fraud.  He screwed everyone and is doing a 110 year prison term. And, those boys could rat you out any time, making you the subject of perpetual extortion.

Good Luck

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 22:31 | 6868961 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

The big difference here is Sanford was using his trusts for fraud.  Just because you have a trust established without the US doesn't mean you can go about stealing other peoples' money using it.  The fact of the matter is that the US has a jurisdictional issue if it tries to bring a foreign trust into court.  They have to first establish a nexus.  Granted, if you're already in their custody you've already lost half the battle, but that doesn't mean it's over.

Jurisdiction is everything.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 13:28 | 6866184 mendigo
mendigo's picture

What will the absense of cash do to the price and fluidity of gold?

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 13:19 | 6866133 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

Nice to see you back in form Chumbles. Thanks for some more sage advice in NOT dealing with the banks. I hadn't thought about the DC loophole... ;-) We've missed you around here, don't be a stranger!

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 12:17 | 6865799 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

I tried to buy 3000.00 worth of Money Orders to pay an IRS extortion tab. I had 30 C Notes in hand.

The post office wanted me to fill out a form with all kinds of ID data. They found that amount of cash to warrant a red flag, and the person making that type of purchase just HAD to be documented.

I split the purchase up between two post offices. Total goddamned hassle. Cash is seriously demonized and suspect tp the establishment. All the more reason to use it.

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:48 | 6866639 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Hmmm, seems I overlooked that.  I remember now why I always keep my MO purchases limited to $2000 at each post office.

To meet the requirements of this law, the U.S. Postal Service requires that customers fill out a Funds Transaction Report (Form 8105-A) and present a U.S. Government-issued photo ID whenever they purchase $3,000 or more in money orders in one day.

 

http://about.usps.com/publications/pub342/welcome.htm

So I misspoke, the Post Office is still subject to some of the banking laws :\

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 21:40 | 6868807 Cheduba
Cheduba's picture

It's too bad you were being filmed with those kind of "terrorist" activities and they probably filed 20 suspicious activity reports (SAR) on you.  Better to avoid the TBTF banks altogether if possible.

Amazing how we are endlessly funneled towards the least bad of two terrible choices in literally all aspects of life.

Great article and I have enjoyed your comments for many, many years.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 13:09 | 6866084 tictawk
tictawk's picture

Cash is LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE.  

I don't on what legal grounds banks can refuse cash.  

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 12:11 | 6865778 Frankly Speaking
Frankly Speaking's picture

There is another side to this cashless coin. Consider the billions, if not trillions, of suitcase dollars spread around this planet. If this cash does not somehow become registered with the cartel, will it not simply disappear as useless paper? Who gains? 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 13:15 | 6866114 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

This 1967 true story is of an experience by a young 12 year old lad in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. It is about the vivid memory of a privately rebuilt P-51 from WWII and its famous owner/pilot.

In the morning sun, I could not believe my eyes. There, in our little airport, sat a majestic P-51. They said it had flown in during the night from some U.S. Airport, on its way to an air show. The pilot had been tired, so he just happened to choose Kingston for his stop over. It was to take to the air very soon. I marveled at the size
of the plane, dwarfing the Pipers and Canucks tied down by her. It was much larger than in the movies. She glistened in the sun like a bulwark of security from days gone by.

The pilot arrived by cab, paid the driver, and then stepped into the pilot's lounge. He was an older man; his wavy hair was gray and tossed. It looked like it might have been combed, say, around the turn of the century. His flight jacket was checked, creased and worn - it smelled old and genuine. Old Glory was prominently sewn to its shoulders. He projected a quiet air of proficiency and pride devoid of arrogance. He filed a quick flight plan to Montreal ("Expo-67 Air Show") then walked across the tarmac.

After taking several minutes to perform his walk-around check, the tall, lanky man returned to the flight lounge to ask if anyone would be available to stand by with fire extinguishers while he "flashed the old bird up, just to be safe." Though only 12 at the time I was allowed to stand by with an extinguisher after brief instruction on its use -- "If you see a fire, point, then pull this lever!", he said. (I later became a firefighter, but that's another story.) The air around the exhaust manifolds shimmered like a mirror from fuel fumes as the huge prop started to rotate. One manifold, then another, and yet another barked -- I stepped back with the others. In moments the Packard -built Merlin engine came to life with a thunderous roar. Blue flames knifed from her manifolds with an arrogant snarl. I looked at the others' faces; there was no concern. I lowered the bell of my extinguisher. One of the guys signaled to walk back to the lounge. We did.

Several minutes later we could hear the pilot doing his pre-flight run-up. He'd taxied to the end of runway 19, out of sight. All went quiet for several seconds. We ran to the second story deck to see if we could catch a glimpse of the P-51 as she started down the runway. We could not. There we stood, eyes fixed to a spot half way down 19. Then a roar ripped across the field, much louder than before. Like a furious hell spawn set loose -- something mighty this way was coming. "Listen to that thing!" said the controller.

In seconds the Mustang burst into our line of sight. It's tail was already off the runway and it was moving faster than anything I'd ever seen by that point on 19. Two-thirds the way down 19 the Mustang was airborne with her gear going up. The prop tips were supersonic. We clasped our ears as the Mustang climbed hellishly fast into the circuit to be eaten up by the dog-day haze. We stood for a few moments, in stunned silence, trying to digest what we'd just seen.

The radio controller rushed by me to the radio. "Kingston tower calling Mustang?" He looked back to us as he waited for an acknowledgment. The radio crackled, "Go ahead, Kingston." "Roger, Mustang. Kingston tower would like to advise the circuit is clear for a low level pass." I stood in shock because the controller had just, more or less, asked the pilot to return for an impromptu air show! The controller looked at us. "Well, What?" He asked. "I can't let that guy go without asking. I couldn't forgive myself!"

The radio crackled once again, "Kingston, do I have permission for a low level pass, east to west, across the field?" "Roger, Mustang, the circuit is clear for an east to west pass." "Roger, Kingston, I'm coming out of 3,000 feet, stand by." We rushed back onto the second-story deck, eyes fixed toward the eastern haze. The sound was subtle at first, a high-pitched whine, a muffled screech, a distant scream. Moments later the P-51 burst through the haze. Her airframe straining against positive G's and gravity. Her wing tips spilling contrails of condensed air, prop-tips again supersonic. The burnished bird blasted across the eastern margin of the field shredding and tearing the air. At about 500 mph and 150 yards from where we stood she passed with the old American pilot saluting. Imagine. A salute! I felt like laughing; I felt like crying; she glistened; she screamed; the building shook; my heart pounded. Then the old pilot pulled her up and rolled, and rolled, and rolled out of sight into the broken clouds and indelible into my memory.

I've never wanted to be an American more than on that day! It was a time when many nations in the world looked to America as their big brother. A steady and even-handed beacon of security who navigated difficult political water with grace and style; not unlike the old American pilot who'd just flown into my memory. He was proud, not arrogant, humble, not a braggart, old and honest, projecting an aura of America at its best.

That America will return one day! I know it will! Until that time, I'll just send off this story. Call it a loving reciprocal salute to a Country, and especially to that old American pilot: the late-JIMMY STEWART (1908-1997), Actor, real WWII Hero (Commander of a US Army Air Force Bomber Wing stationed in England), and a USAF Reserves Brigadier General, who wove a wonderfully fantastic memory for a young Canadian boy that's lasted a lifetime.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 14:09 | 6866420 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

If this story is true.....it's freakin' awesome.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 11:07 | 6865478 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

Chumba,..

 

$100 detainer?

 

you mean,..retainer?

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 12:53 | 6865972 Renfield
Renfield's picture

I thought that was a deliberate typo. LOL'd.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 15:07 | 6866740 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

lol, I meant retainer actually.  Oh well.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 10:29 | 6865292 I AM SULLY
I AM SULLY's picture

Excellent post Chumba, from the heart and true.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:29 | 6865029 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Chumba,

 

Good to see you back in form and style.

 

I had been given a cheque drawn on a local credit union in canada.  I presented it and the teller said there was a 10$$ fee.  I said I want my money and this cheque is drawn on your "bank"..  didn't want to pay the fee.    All the way up to the reigional supervisor.  I don't have a bank in this small town.  I wanted cash.  Ends up I had to deposit the cheque in my account in the city.   I haven't attempted the deeper parts of the rabbit hole yet except for reading.  

 

Shheeeep and morons at every level.

 

Dogbreath

 

edit;   best thread in ages here

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:23 | 6865019 Dg4884
Dg4884's picture

Ok Chamba... I get it.  We have a store of cash for the big bang to go blow on last minute items, but, I have a small business and we (my wife and me) have to be able to itemize purchases.  I look at this and say, well, sure; gas, grocery, Shell station...  that works, but I still have to use my card and using it once might as well be using it 1,000 X. 

We were at Wells Fargo for years and decided to yank all accounts and go to a credit union because they are not under FDIC.  This has restored my sanity a bit.

---Waiting for the other shoe to fall - DG

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 16:17 | 6867216 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Dg4884

 

You have been misled on this.

"We were at Wells Fargo for years and decided to yank all accounts and go to a credit union because they are not under FDIC.  This has restored my sanity a bit."

 

They are one in the same, the FSLIC is a sister to the FDIC.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 02:55 | 6864506 Quebecguy
Quebecguy's picture

Hold it right there...What about "legal tender" and "acceptable for all debts, public and private?". Can't you call the police and make them accept the cash? This actuality poses a greater risk to the confidence in the financial system than most of the stories out here. Thousands in pennies to pay a ticket (which they should accept), I can see where one might have a problem with that. And also, is it not the universal thing that most people (and banks) want deposits into their accounts? What kind of retail bank doesn't accept actual United States currency? Should have called the cops, the law has more force than their policies (sometimes). 

BTW folks, I took a "$25 for $25" small silver coin (U.S. quarter sized) to the bank and got the face value for it a few weeks ago. I had to go back the next day, but they had called the Mint and asked about the program, and it wasn't a problem. High face can count.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:47 | 6865113 TheObsoleteMan
TheObsoleteMan's picture

Are you still living in the 1950s when people still cared about such things? be my guest, call the cops and demand they enforce the legal tender laws, the dispatcher will hang up on you and call you a Luddite. People and businesses can demand payment in any form they like, and there is nothing to be done about it. This is a "two edged sword" as it cuts both ways. It can work for someone demanding payment in precious metals, but it also works for the banks demanding only electronic payment. If a business refuses your cash {like many airlines do already} there is nothing you an do other than suit them or walk.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 13:03 | 6866038 Renfield
Renfield's picture

That the government no longer cares what is or is not lawful, is exactly the problem. If they were sticking to the law and were equal under that, then the people win. But they don't --  from illegal invasions of countries to the myriad of 'selective enforcement' and ignored laws in the 'west' -- because debt-based fiat enables the Corporation to buy as many guns and mercenaries as it wants. The fact that criminals now run both the government and the justice system means that even if you win legally, what you cannot enforce you cannot keep. This is why fear is also an appropriate response, and the only answer to that that I can see is accepting that security is a myth, and we all have to die sometime. For a non-sociopath this is easier said than done, especially where loved ones are involved. It was only when our corporate government turned insane that many of us began looking into the whole structure, and found that it was evil from the start. But through the previous two centuries, our governments were not insane, so most of us did not look into it and lived reasonably well. But that is becoming impossible under governments that are both insane and criminal. (It is no coincidence to me that the American Revolution was fought under the reign of Mad King George.)

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:22 | 6865010 MoonSun
MoonSun's picture

The war on cash and the maximum limit for cash payments make the legal tender a 20th century concept.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 03:17 | 6864556 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

lol, right.  The cops would probably end up arresting me for disturbing the peace.

Chumbawamba Rule #1: Never involve the cops in anything, ever.

Trust me, that rule comes from hard experience.  Cops are simply modern day barraters (look up the term barratry).  They are there to incite controversy and generate revenue for their local jurisdiction.

Besides, it's not a criminal matter, it's civil, and cops have no police powers to involve themselves in civil affairs, only criminal.

Finally, banks can get away with a lot of shit.  Again, trust me, I've looked into it, called the FDIC, the Federal Reserve and one other agency I can't remember, talked to people, but the bottom line is the banks can make these rules and you don't have recourse.  Your choice is either to accept their terms and do business with them or don't do business with them.  If you don't like the terms to cash a check you can always go back to your customer and ask them for a different form of payment, and I have done this before.  It sucks but then that's why I try to limit my contact with these assholes.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 11:31 | 6865592 cyberfossil
cyberfossil's picture

The banksters are institutionalized criminals, bro, as you described.  Nothing to add except keep it up.  You have been a favorite commentator here since I started ZeroHedge about six years ago and you know what is going on.  Thanks for the good information and advice.  Cheers, Chumblez

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 05:08 | 6864644 Quebecguy
Quebecguy's picture

Thanks for the sound advice. No, I don't do business with them either, I've found that things are a lot cheaper that way, actually. 

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 02:29 | 6864490 Okboss
Okboss's picture

This is what makes ZH.  The commentators!  Chumba writes a great article about how bankers are creating a cashless society and Honest Ann chimes in with one freaking wild solution.  It's so wild that it's hard to believe that someone actually did this, that actually took the time and effort to do this, at the very top of the PM market.  Please don't get me wrong, I've logged in to upvote H Ann.  She totally gets it with what the problem is (singlular).  No matter, true, or very cleverly made up, this IS the solution.  Bankers have been working overtime to mis-infom and brainwash the populace, especially children, to erase human history and knowledge about money.   At some point, even the most thoroughly brainwashed people and even complete idiots, will understand that 'money', cannot be created from nothing, and 'credit' is not money.  Human history has a long record of what money is.

Naturally i'm wondering if Ann bought all the way down and really very curious if the merchants she transacted with are now with the program or pissed off.  Ha ha ha ha!

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:40 | 6864418 Neo
Neo's picture

Chum,

 

You read this guy?

 

http://losthorizons.com/

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:40 | 6864417 Neo
Neo's picture

Chum,

 

You read this guy?

 

http://losthorizons.com/

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 03:09 | 6864547 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I didn't study his stuff much at all but I'm aware of Pete Hendrickson.  Paul Andrew Mitchell at http://supremelaw.org claims Hendrickson plagiarised his stuff.  I've studied Mitchell's stuff pretty in depth and so I figure if his claim is true there's nothing new that Hendrickson would bring to the table for me ;)

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:25 | 6864394 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Hey Chumbawamba, do you use this strategy to pay utilities?

I still keep a checking account open to pay for gas, electricity etc, but would close it in a heartbeat if I had an alternative.

Thanks in advance and thanks for the read.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 03:06 | 6864544 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Do I pay for my utilities with cash?  Yes.  I pay for my cellphone service at any 7-11; if I had an electricity bill I would pay it at the customer center a couple miles away; my water/sewer bill I pay by going to the city water department downtown next to the city hall, etc.  All accept cash.

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:16 | 6864375 dchang0
dchang0's picture

IF the bankers and governments actually succeed at banning cash, they will be hit by the inevitable consequence of people being disincentivized to work. After all, why bother working if you can't keep what you earned?

There will be this continual incentive to "only do just enough to get by in the moment," not unlike pre-monetary, pre-agricultural societies, where it was not yet possible to hoard money or foodstuffs. If you needed a fish to eat, you went and caught just enough fish to eat--there was no need to catch more because you couldn't keep them for long before they rotted away. The same will happen when people see their bank account balances "rotting away" as time passes--why bother working harder to stuff one's bank account if it will erode on its own?

It will be "learned helplessness" on a grand scale. People will essentially give up trying to work harder to get ahead of NIRP and just sit in a daze. Hey, this is already happening with the people who have "given up looking for work" and are on gov't assistance.

Good luck, Powers That Be. Your dreams of control are self-defeating.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:40 | 6865090 Dg4884
Dg4884's picture

But, isn't that the goal?  The marxist mindset IS to keep you in a "F it" state and rely on the government for "approved purchases".  Pay received through work goes into the government account and you get a monthly stipen.  Why do you think the "monopoly" is back?  Soon we will have:

- Single payer health

- Government approve utilities (thank you smart meter)

- Government auto

- Government sanctioned food stuffs (soylent green?)

Honestly?  I doubt I would be around for that.  I would be gone from taking a few with of them me when the revolution would start.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 09:50 | 6865130 Janice
Janice's picture

Not trying to argue with your point dchango, but you can learn much from watching Gone With The Wind. There's a part where the servant goes to Scarlet and asks how much gold she got 'cause the taxes on Tara been run sky high. Point being, if you don't pay the government in the government way, you get driven off the land that you own. Unless you live in a property tax free state.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:09 | 6864365 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Thank you for this interesting and educational article. More interesting times to come with NIRP, etc.

Peace!

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:00 | 6864346 Lookout Mountain
Lookout Mountain's picture

The bad part of USPS money orders is if the recipient wishes to take them to the USPS and receive cash. Anything over a few hundred dollars can be a problem. I tried to cash one for $1000, only to be told they didn’t' keep that much cash on hand. "But, they are as good as cash!," the clerks told me. "Really?" I replied. "Everywhere but here, apparently." I asked if there was a time of day that I could return, when they might have that much, or pre-arrange for that much to be on hand. All I got back was, "Well, you might try mid-afternons. Sometimes we have that much." In the end I had to go to my personal bank with the money order.

 

 

 

 

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 02:53 | 6864527 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Right, I discuss this.  For someone like me who stridently avoids business with banks, it's a workable trade-off.  At worst, you can get whatever cash they have on hand, and then get the remainder as another money order, which you can then cash another day.  It's about as much inconvenience or bullshit as you can expect from a bank, just in another form, and due to simple and innocent incompetence rather than sinister methodologies designed to strip you of your cash.

-Chumblez.

Tue, 12/01/2015 - 23:55 | 6864148 dot.dot
dot.dot's picture

If you bought five $2000 USPS money orders from different post offices on the same day would that be considered 'structuring.'  I'm assuming they have cameras if they really wanted to pursue the matter.  Just curious.

Tue, 12/01/2015 - 23:59 | 6864166 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Good question.  Are USPO MO's within the jurisdiction of US banking laws?

-Chumblez.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 00:43 | 6864291 dot.dot
dot.dot's picture

Can you buy USPS money orders w/ a credit card?  My bank (AMEX) is offering a 250 bonus if i charge 2,000.  I love sticking it to them when I can.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:13 | 6864373 tarabel
tarabel's picture

 

 

Not with a credit card. Only debit.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 08:03 | 6864816 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

cash what is it good for? robots and AI's don't want cash. electrons are the new cash..not the I and o's.. where are we headed I do not know but we are getting there fast.

Wed, 12/02/2015 - 01:17 | 6864378 dot.dot
dot.dot's picture

Thanks.  good to know

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